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沒關係好還是要等還是要等 各個黨團人員還沒沒有 人家已經有處理了已經找到了對 部長也找到"},{"start":1465.953,"end":1486.849,"text":"好 我們協商會議開始那現在進行這個並案協商本院社會福利基於衛生環境委員會報告並案審查行政委函請審議委員林月琴等21人委員邱振軍等18人委員王玉敏等24人委員徐宇貞等18人委員林淑文等22人及委員劉建國等19人分別凝聚"},{"start":1487.907,"end":1515.384,"text":"全民健康保險資料管理條例草案等7案那委員王正旭等20人凝聚全民健康保險資料管理條例草案淨污惡毒案那現在介紹在場委員這個王正旭王委員陳昭芝陳委員林月琦林委員林淑雯林委員那現在出席的官員我們衛務部石崇良部長"},{"start":1517.437,"end":1544.343,"text":"陳亮宇署長還有社保室代理市長陳真惠還有我們法規會的參事陳信成謝謝教育部高教師吳志偉專門委員謝謝技職師鄭淑珍科長法務部王楠君參事今天都沒有讓你講到話國科會曹佑仁科長"},{"start":1546.189,"end":1550.392,"text":"好 謝謝蘇阿部陳明宏專門委員 謝謝個人資料保護委員委員會籌備處林郁佳組長好 謝謝"},{"start":1556.912,"end":1579.568,"text":"那本案提報院會並案審查報告保留條文為第19條及22條那其中22條業經上次協商會議通過今天會議審查第19條條文今天進行方式能請衛福部先做說明再請各位委員提出意見然後最後會眾協商結論請各黨人簽名好那請部長好謝謝"},{"start":1586.145,"end":1599.701,"text":"主席還有各位委員很謝謝召委今天特別在安排有關於全民健康保險這個資料管理條例的保留條文的協商那第19條主要是在對於"},{"start":1601.343,"end":1616.972,"text":"退出權也就是說當事人請求停止特定目的外利用但是在某些特殊的情形之下主管機關仍然可以得以做特定目的外利用"},{"start":1617.372,"end":1634.811,"text":"那因為這個會影響到那個民眾的這個權利的行使所以在這個條文上呢那麼很多的委員很關切應該要考量其真正的必要性緊急性然後要予以最大"},{"start":1635.732,"end":1657.375,"text":"要限縮那麼以最低的必要來行使這樣的這個限制那麼當事人停止這個就是他的停止特定目的外利用的這個無法無法去行使所以我們經過跟幾位委員討論之後那麼也"},{"start":1658.556,"end":1683.182,"text":"重新擬定了這個修正的文字那麼把它限縮在兩款那麼同時讓它更明確那包含第一款就是這個依照這個本法第十條第一項第三條規定這個是主管機關或保險人醫法有提供義務的那這個就沒有這個停止利用"},{"start":1684.282,"end":1702.707,"text":"第二個是在特殊情形下為了免除人民的生命身體跟財產上的急迫危險那才可以行使退出權的不行使所以我們把它做了線索同時為了讓因為這樣的"},{"start":1707.849,"end":1731.99,"text":"限制的這個停止特定目的外利用而做的這個做法那能夠公開透明那麼因此又把它限制限於政府機關才能夠申請這樣的做法同時要把這個使用的情形包含期限還有最後的運用情形要公開大眾所以"},{"start":1732.931,"end":1744.471,"text":"照這樣的一個設計 那這個很請各位委員支持 以上說明好 謝謝部長的說明來 那請問大家 各位委員有沒有其他意見好 陳昭志委員"},{"start":1746.76,"end":1767.849,"text":"謝謝署席還有部長的說明因為這部專法之所以要立法就是因為人民要求釋憲那釋憲結果實施過去的做法是有相當程度的這個違憲那過去主要的精神是人民應該對他自己的資料除了在目的內使用之外這目的外的使用應該他有一些自主權"},{"start":1768.849,"end":1798.044,"text":"那上次我们很在意的其实本来是要同意权那同意权我们也就是说如果他没有同意之前就当做他不同意但是我也知道说2300万你要去执行这个是有实务上的困难所以后来我们也是就是说妥协退让成为是退出权就是说你没有退出之前你都当做你同意这个部分就是我们觉得在其实在这个维系的精神下其实也是一个不得不的做法但是有关这个我们今天所谓的霸王条款"},{"start":1798.624,"end":1823.065,"text":"就是人民已经行使退出权之后但是政府机关还是要做这个所谓的这个目的外使用那必须有非常坚定坚强非常具体的一个理由所以之前所写的的确是非常的模糊啊以后不要随便再用那几个字了危害国家安全的这样的字眼因为这个是非常的不明确尤其是已经在这个"},{"start":1823.846,"end":1846.7,"text":"依照个人各自保护法第六条我想部长你也熟悉原则上那个病例医疗基因健康检查等是不得收集处理利用而被卫福部及健保署过去可以使用这些健保则是因为各自保护法第六条有一个但书已经开了一个例外让卫福部及健保署可以为了执行法定职务医疗的预防卫生预防等目的"},{"start":1847.02,"end":1864.19,"text":"可以進行處理收集利用因為本來我們認為是有這個但書存在結果健保署資料庫的管理條例的報完條款是要讓衛福部跟健保署這樣已經可以被例外可以去利用這些資料的機關再用另外一個例外"},{"start":1864.93,"end":1884.868,"text":"例外中再加个例外就一个报恩条款去把资料再转出去给别人使用所以让人民不得拒绝所以当初我们是非常执意这样的一点那当然经过沟通我想部长也跟我们党团沟通那现在就是我们希望不要用模糊的字眼不要用模糊的字眼那刚刚部长也有报告就是说"},{"start":1885.869,"end":1908.3,"text":"尤其是要具體續名使用目的的必要性那當時我也希望有個期限不是說一旦打開來了以後那就說就沒有一個限期嘛要有收回來的時間然後資料運用的情形我們也可以去了解可以去追蹤的情況下那我們大概就免予接受好 謝謝這請王振旭委員"},{"start":1914.368,"end":1939.458,"text":"謝謝主席主席快馬加一鞭希望能夠透過今天很完整的過程讓我們在全民健康保險資料庫管理條例整個修正可以能夠經過大家共同的認可而且同意相關的修正內容我想這是重要的一步因為當初之所以會被我們的縣大法官去判定"},{"start":1939.998,"end":1962.07,"text":"需要修正的部分我們透過這個方式終於全部把它處理到一個程度那相信所有委員的努力尤其是召職委員還有在場所有委員的努力大家都會很清楚的知道這部法案在修正的過程裡面大家所提出來的一些觀點也得到最後的認同"},{"start":1963.39,"end":1991.526,"text":"其實後面還有很多相關的法案還需要繼續努力的地方包括衛生福利的法案那個是更大的範圍不過這是一個好的一步我們期待未來在針對所有的衛生福利法案甚至包括健康檢查資料大數據的應用等等都能夠很依照我們的程序持續的來把這些變成第二個護國神山那這個部分就需要麻煩我們衛福部跟速發部還有經濟部共同"},{"start":1993.087,"end":2018.475,"text":"來持續完成 好 謝謝好 謝謝王知事委員的建議跟提醒再來請林淳委員好 我最後再重申一次就是說這或許是我們不是很滿意就是說第一款本來法律就有的規定那第二款就是說這個限於這個生命身體或財產上的急迫危險"},{"start":2019.655,"end":2035.304,"text":"那這樣子還是很抽象還是非常的抽象的範疇那其實我們仍然認為說應該再限縮一點所以要求他們第二項就是說第二款的狀況必須至少要公開要"},{"start":2036.584,"end":2064.827,"text":"給人家知道說你沒有辦法阻卻不被拿去使用的時候那誰把你拿去了他為什麼要拿去他用多久那這種狀況至少要讓我們大家都知道而且要公開讓大家都看到至少要讓我們知情這樣子啦那對啦 也是不是很滿意但是也是勉強接受啦好 謝謝那恭迎陳清威委員"},{"start":2066.679,"end":2095.33,"text":"好你要不要 沒有啦好謝謝好那如果各位有沒有其他其他行政單位有意見沒有好謝謝那我們就照這個建立的條文來黨團協商建立條文來通過那你也請衛福部提供第19條及22條協商通過條文之立法說明好現在宣告以下結論第一第22條照行政院提案通過"},{"start":2096.752,"end":2120.352,"text":"第二第19條照協商結果通過如附件那第三其餘均照審查會審查結果通過那各位再請教一下大家有意見沒有那就請各團團簽名好我要先簽了是是是"},{"start":2225.325,"end":2231.77,"text":"好 大家簽署完畢那我們今天的議程就進行完畢謝謝大家 感謝各位 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}