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10:49:34","會議時間":"2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員李柏毅等16人擬具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員王義川等17人擬具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員吳思瑤等17人擬具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員羅智強等17人擬具「監獄行刑法第六十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員徐欣瑩等17人擬具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等24人擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員羅智強等17人擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】\n【7月8日及9日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":9.24471875,"end":12.14721875,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":13.78409375,"end":14.67846875,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":15.015968750000003,"end":15.47159375,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":17.58096875,"end":18.35721875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":18.84659375,"end":41.84721875,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":42.30284375,"end":42.74159375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":42.48846875,"end":42.657218750000006,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":43.24784375,"end":44.040968750000005,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":44.71596875,"end":48.29346875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":48.29346875,"end":48.31034375,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":48.31034375,"end":48.360968750000005,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":48.681593750000005,"end":50.72346875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":50.774093750000006,"end":50.790968750000005,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":50.85846875,"end":53.67659375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":53.440343750000004,"end":57.05159375,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":57.237218750000004,"end":68.32409375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":67.26096875,"end":67.53096875,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":68.07096875,"end":75.31034375,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":72.98159375,"end":73.30221875000001,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":74.50034375,"end":76.82909375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":76.82909375,"end":88.10159375,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":88.75971875,"end":92.64096875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":90.21096875,"end":90.37971875000001,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":90.39659375000001,"end":90.44721875,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":92.57346875,"end":95.34096875,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":92.84346875,"end":98.41221875000001,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":98.42909375,"end":98.44596875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":98.44596875,"end":102.58034375000001,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":100.42034375,"end":115.30409375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":115.70909375000001,"end":117.10971875000001,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":116.16471875,"end":121.61534375000001,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":123.48846875000001,"end":130.74471875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":130.91346875000002,"end":131.26784375,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":131.23409375,"end":134.23784375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":134.44034375,"end":136.31346875,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":134.69346875000002,"end":141.64596875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":138.94596875000002,"end":139.36784375000002,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":140.92034375,"end":143.77221875,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":144.39659375000002,"end":146.03346875,"speaker_score":0.974},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林署長憲銘","start":146.03346875,"end":147.13034375,"speaker_score":0.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一定是不會讓他這個有這樣欠缺的 不夠用對 一定夠用那所以您覺得這樣是合理的"},{"start":153.153,"end":162.499,"text":"基本上都是維持她生活所需因為跟委員包括我本身也是在女子監獄當中單單能夠點一場我有去了解這樣的情形所以您有在女子監獄當中女性管理員她們都很會來照顧我們女性收容人的我本於這樣同理心這一方面都要謝謝委員的關心就是署長講的如果實情跟署長講的一樣喔我今天就不會質詢了啦"},{"start":175.286,"end":193.286,"text":"但是就是署長講的我覺得很合理可是我們看到的各種訪談就NGO做的好像實情跟您講的不太一樣就是第一線的監獄工作者告訴我們說若是女性就是一天只能用一片衛生棉"},{"start":194.447,"end":209.885,"text":"那一片衛生棉的話其實就我們所知道的一般的生理健康的話其實非常的容易感染跟生病那其實我們也知道受刑人其實他有基本的醫療需求你們是會滿足嗎那監獄現在總人數是多少目前我們的監獄"},{"start":216.351,"end":238.825,"text":"65000多人那其實他們如果因為這個基本的衛生生病的話也是加重監獄的負擔對不對因為基本的醫療你們是有提供的所以呢這邊我們看到的就是那如果他這個生理用品不夠的話那他家境也不好的話其實"},{"start":240.566,"end":265.54,"text":"就你們的規則是可以用勞動換取可是就目前我們看到的這個是112年的國家人權委員會的報告就是身障受刑人的報告就是如果自己沒有錢買衛生棉的話可以去抄佛經一萬字可以換一包衛生棉那我們是不知道就是說一萬字這個到底要抄多久所以對貧困的受刑人來講的話"},{"start":266.741,"end":291.633,"text":"那其實這個衛生棉變成是奢侈品因為一包就勞動來講要一萬字換一包那所以我這邊是想請您就是針對貧困收容人的這個生理用品的發放是不是可以檢討一下因為這邊講的是每兩個月發放衛生棉兩包那到底是不是像您剛講的就是說還有備品"},{"start":292.273,"end":307.034,"text":"不夠用等等那我們看到的這些數字跟訪談是不夠用的那他如果要來買的話收容人的勞動收入六成作為勞作金所以每個月的平均收入不到五百元這樣沒錯吧"},{"start":309.07,"end":337.125,"text":"可是生理用品這裡賣一包65元所以對他來講的話其實是一個沉重的負擔因為他這個每個月的這個收入500元還必須要處理也許衛生紙也不夠或者其他的東西也不夠所以就醫費用他們也需要部分負擔是不是就醫費用對所以就您所知道這個每個月的平均收入500元大部分的受刑人都是用到哪裡您了解嗎"},{"start":339.741,"end":356.432,"text":"大部分的壽星人他會買一些他基本用品還有會買一些零食來吃都有都有這樣的情形因為的話他們本身也有他本身的一個家家屬寄進來的這樣的包裹環境的款項不是只有這個老弱晶而已"},{"start":356.992,"end":380.505,"text":"所以我們看到的是針對貧困的女性收容人她其實處境更加困難因為她可能就要面臨取捨如果她衛生紙也不夠其他的肥皂牙刷也不夠的話她可能就犧牲生理用品這一方面我剛講了如果她因此感染健康不佳的話其實也造成寓所的負擔"},{"start":381.605,"end":398.98,"text":"那另一方面我們就會發現就是說比較窮的女性收容人其實處境因為她比較貧窮那她其實處境就會更糟那加上跟男性收容人比起來她每個月的這個負擔其實又更高了"},{"start":399.5,"end":418.522,"text":"那我想這個部分我們不希望處境不佳的人他又處於更糟糕的處境這個主要是今天我們所講的那另外呢根據這個NPOS公益交流站的專訪那基本的需求的生理用品如果無法達到的話"},{"start":420.164,"end":438.889,"text":"甚至家屬又沒有能力接濟他們的話甚至也是間接造成他們被霸凌的原因那我想監獄裡面的霸凌你們應該都知道其實會是一個很難避免的狀況雖然我知道監獄已經做了一些努力了可是還很難避免"},{"start":439.409,"end":463.74,"text":"所以這個也是根據研究造成這些貧困的女性就是受刑人間接被霸凌的原因因為她無法取得生理用品因為這個是監所關注小組的陳惠敏的研究女性收容人其實每個月的花費要1650元可是我們剛剛說的她的勞動的收入大概500那她如果不夠的話"},{"start":464.64,"end":488.297,"text":"其實基本的生活需求還有生理用品的需求其實是不足的謝謝剛剛署長的回應基本上我想您是不想看到這個狀況也跟您提醒就是聯合國我們台灣一直希望加入聯合國聯合國有女性受刑人處遇及女性罪犯非監禁措施原則"},{"start":489.418,"end":503.317,"text":"裡面是規定應該要免費提供生理用品那裡面有提到說女性受刑人收容所應該具備滿足女性生理衛生所需的設施跟物質包含免費的生理用品"},{"start":504.278,"end":518.614,"text":"像您剛剛被我問的就是說您知道的是應該要有備品那如果這樣子就符合這個聯合國的女性受刑人的就是不要因為她是女性又處於更不利的處境那這部分我想您是希望能夠達到的"},{"start":521.757,"end":538.868,"text":"另外也跟署長分享就是國際的研究也知道不佳的月經衛生管理會導致心理跟生理的負面影響就像我們剛講的會讓他們的健康更差先不要講對受刑人影響其實對監獄的醫療負擔又更加重了"},{"start":544.592,"end":559.102,"text":"紐約市議會也通過其實我們現在學校裡面中小學都有免費的生理用品紐約市議會其實也通過還有監獄跟無家者安置機構也應該要提供就是基於他們的處境"},{"start":561.465,"end":583.382,"text":"不應該因為這個需求又更糟的處境所以是不是署長是不是可以研議就是您剛剛所說的跟現實的狀況中間如果有落差的話就是如何改善讓女性受刑人至少有一個她不需要再去額外購買的這個部分的生理用品的可能性"},{"start":584.022,"end":602.635,"text":"那另外就是因為監獄刑刑法有明定就是哪些是基本的需求是不是也可以考慮就把它明文納入了如果您認為這個是基本需求的話這兩項回去研議是我們來研議好那大概多久之內可以給本席一個研議的初步結果呢"},{"start":603.921,"end":629.589,"text":"這個研議完之後的話如果說要納入監獄刑刑法那要經過一個修法的程序可是基本上的話我們可以從內部我們的行政作為先來把這邊鞏固住那我們會再做全面的去了解目前多少個女監女所目前現行的狀況我們是說做最合理的最兼顧到這個委員你提到的女性的這個生理用品要足夠要保障她們這個健康的需求這邊我們來注意"},{"start":630.569,"end":640.362,"text":"感謝這個署長的支持喔那大概多久可以給我一個初步的報告呢呃... 委員可不可以三個月三個月 好 可以 是好 那就這樣喔好 謝謝署長好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:39:01.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:39:02.343000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委，有請林署長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:39:02.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:39:02.763000+08:00","text":"請署長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:39:02.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:39:02.803000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:39:09.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:39:10.625000+08:00","text":"署長您好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:39:11.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:39:23.294000+08:00","text":"今天我們主要是關注受刑人，我想請問你關於女性受刑人基本生理用品的提供是否足夠這個問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:39:23.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:39:32.640000+08:00","text":"我想您知道監獄受刑人必要的物品跟日常生活必需品包含哪些項目吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:39:33.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:39:44.295000+08:00","text":"是，清潔用品跟他的衣著這一類以及寢具都是基本的，我們看得到的他在監內的生活樣態，我們都會去注意。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:39:44.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:39:47.778000+08:00","text":"好，所謂的清潔用品有包含哪些內容呢？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:39:49.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:39:59.006000+08:00","text":"看個人身體或是他衣著的部分，如洗滌的、衣著的，還有他個人身體或是刷牙等等這些。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:39:59.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:40:06.551000+08:00","text":"關於衛生紙跟生理用品，譬如說衛生棉算是基本的清潔用品嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:40:06.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:40:07.652000+08:00","text":"是，對女性來講是基本的。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:40:08.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:40:18.870000+08:00","text":"可不可以告訴我們，就不同性別來講，他每個月可以得到的衛生紙跟衛生棉大概數量是多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:40:20.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:40:23.183000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們並不是無限量提供。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:40:23.183000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:40:24.183000+08:00","text":"提供的量可以讓我們知道嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:40:24.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:40:29.547000+08:00","text":"如果他本身有經濟能力，我們有合作社，他可以自行去購買。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:40:29.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:40:31.209000+08:00","text":"如果沒有經濟能力的、貧窮的受刑人呢？","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:40:31.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:40:36.232000+08:00","text":"沒有經濟能力的話，我們會由機關提供。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:40:37.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:40:45.679000+08:00","text":"基本上，我們兩個月會提供一次，包括毛巾、牙刷、牙膏、洗髮精、肥皂、洗衣粉等等，衛生紙是兩包。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:40:46.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:40:52.385000+08:00","text":"我問一個月好了，一個月的話，女性生理用品是提供多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:40:56.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:04.975000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實我們每個場舍都有備品在那邊，女性收容人有需要的話，我們就會提供。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:05.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:07.618000+08:00","text":"有需要就有提供嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:07.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:12.202000+08:00","text":"對，如果他本身沒有自購的能力，他有需要的話，我們主管都會馬上提供。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:12.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:14.544000+08:00","text":"您知不知道提供的數量是多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:15.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:17.763000+08:00","text":"就依他所需，一定不會讓他……","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:17.763000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:19.026000+08:00","text":"不夠用。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:19.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:20.049000+08:00","text":"有欠缺的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:20.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:20.891000+08:00","text":"對，一定夠用。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:21.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:22.655000+08:00","text":"所以您覺得這樣是合理的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:24.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:26.114000+08:00","text":"基本上都是維持他生活所需。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:26.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:29.756000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我本身也在女子監獄當過典獄長，我有去了解這樣的情形。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:29.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:30.637000+08:00","text":"所以您有在女子監獄當過……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:30.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:32.358000+08:00","text":"對，女性的管理員他們都很會照顧女性收容人的，都本於這樣的同理心。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:32.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:32.618000+08:00","text":"這一方面要謝謝委員的關心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:32.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:33.419000+08:00","text":"如果實情跟署長講的一樣，我今天就不會質詢了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:47.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:57.058000+08:00","text":"署長講的我覺得很合理，可是我們看到NGO做的各種訪談，好像實情跟您講的不太一樣。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:57.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:04.266000+08:00","text":"第一線的監獄工作者告訴我們說，若是女性一天只能用一片衛生棉。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:05.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:14.658000+08:00","text":"一片衛生棉就我們所知道，一般的生理健康而言，其實非常容易感染跟生病。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:15.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:20.444000+08:00","text":"我們也知道受刑人其實有基本的醫療需求，你們是會滿足。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:20.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:20.745000+08:00","text":"監獄現在總人數是多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:20.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:20.885000+08:00","text":"目前監獄總人數。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:20.885000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:28.992000+08:00","text":"六萬五千七百多人。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:28.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:34.876000+08:00","text":"如果他們因為基本的衛生而生病的話，也是加重監獄的負擔對不對？是。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:34.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:38.298000+08:00","text":"因為基本的醫療你們是有提供的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:40.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:53.907000+08:00","text":"這邊我們看到的是，如果他生理用品不夠，他家境也不好的話，就你們的規則是可以用勞動換取。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:54.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:25.165000+08:00","text":"可是就目前我們看到112年國家人權委員會有關身障受刑人的報告，如果自己沒有錢買衛生棉的話，可以去抄佛經，1萬字可以換一包衛生棉，我們是不知道1萬字到底要抄多久，對貧困的受刑人來講，衛生棉變成奢侈品，因為就勞動來講，要1萬字換一包。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:29.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:34.549000+08:00","text":"針對貧困收容人的生理用品發放，是不是可以請您檢討一下？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:35.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:48.480000+08:00","text":"因為這邊講的是每兩個月發放衛生棉兩包，到底是不是像您剛剛講的還有備品、夠用等等，我們看到的數字跟訪談是不夠用的。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:49.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:58.014000+08:00","text":"如果他要買的話，收容人的勞動收入六成作為勞作金，所以每個月的平均收入不到500元，這樣沒錯吧？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:58.014000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:00.070000+08:00","text":"沒錯，大概。","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:00.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:08.655000+08:00","text":"可是生理用品這裡賣一包65元，對他來講其實是一個沉重的負擔。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:08.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:15.498000+08:00","text":"他每個月收入500元還必須要處理包括也許衛生紙也不夠，或者其他的東西也不夠。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:16.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:18.700000+08:00","text":"就醫費用他們也需要部分負擔，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:19.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:20.301000+08:00","text":"對，就醫費用，醫藥……","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:21.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:28.125000+08:00","text":"所以就您所知道，每個月的平均收入500元，大部分的受刑人都是用到哪裡，您了解嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:30.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:38.446000+08:00","text":"大部分的受刑人會買一些基本用品，還會買一些零食來吃，都有這樣的情形。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:39.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:47.412000+08:00","text":"因為他們本身也有家屬寄進來的保管金款項，不是只有勞作金而已。了解。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:48.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:58.237000+08:00","text":"我們看到的是對於貧困的女性收容人，他的處境更加困難，因為他可能就要面臨取捨。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:58.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:04.501000+08:00","text":"如果他衛生紙不夠，其他的肥皂、牙刷也不夠的話，他可能就犧牲生理用品。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:05.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:29.960000+08:00","text":"這一方面我剛剛講了，如果他因此感染、健康不佳，其實也造成獄所的負擔；另一方面，我們就會發現，比較窮的女性收容人處境因為貧窮而更糟，加上跟男性收容人比起來，他每個月的負擔又更高了。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:32.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:39.991000+08:00","text":"我們不希望處境不佳的人又處於更糟糕的處境，這是今天我們所講的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:40.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:59.166000+08:00","text":"另外，根據NPOst公益交流站的專訪，基本需求的生理用品如果無法達到，家屬又沒有能力接濟他們的話，甚至會間接造成他們被霸凌的原因。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:00.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:09.869000+08:00","text":"我想監獄裡面的霸凌，你們應該都知道，其實是一個很難避免的狀況，雖然我知道監獄已經做了一些努力，可是還是很難避免。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:11.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:22.254000+08:00","text":"這個也是根據研究，造成這些貧困女性受刑人間接被霸凌的原因，因為他無法取得生理用品。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:23.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:30.758000+08:00","text":"這是監所關注小組陳惠敏的研究，女性收容人其實每個月的花費要1,650元。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:31.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:41.224000+08:00","text":"跟我們剛剛說的，他的勞動收入大概500元，如果不夠的話，其實基本的生活需求還有生理用品的需求是不足的。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:43.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:48.670000+08:00","text":"謝謝剛剛署長的回應，基本上我想您不想看到這個狀況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:48.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:47:14.297000+08:00","text":"也跟您提醒，臺灣一直希望加入聯合國，聯合國有女性受刑人處遇及女性罪犯非監禁措施規則，裡面規定應該要免費提供生理用品，裡面有提到，女性受刑人收容所應該具備滿足女性生理衛生所需的設施跟物質，包含免費的生理用品。","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:47:15.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:47:18.882000+08:00","text":"就像您剛剛被我問的，您知道的是應該要有備品。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:47:19.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:47:29.594000+08:00","text":"如果這樣就符合聯合國對女性受刑人的規範，不要因為他是女性，又處於更不利的處境，這部分我想您是希望能夠達到的。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:47:32.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:47:49.848000+08:00","text":"另外也跟署長分享，國際的研究顯示，不佳的月經衛生管理會導致心理跟生理的負面影響，就像我們剛剛講的，會讓他們的健康更差，先不要講對受刑人影響，其實監獄的醫療負擔又更加重了。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:47:57.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:15.007000+08:00","text":"現在學校裡面中小學都有免費的生理用品，紐約市議會也通過，監獄跟無家者安置機構也應該要提供，就是基於不應該讓他們因為這個需求而有更糟的處境。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:15.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:25.015000+08:00","text":"所以是不是請署長可以研議，您剛剛所說的跟現實的狀況中間如果有落差的話，要如何改善？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:25.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:34.362000+08:00","text":"讓女性受刑人至少有一個他不需要再去額外購買生理用品的可能性。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:35.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:43.988000+08:00","text":"另外因為監獄行刑法有明定哪些是基本需求，是不是也可以考慮把它明文納入？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:44.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:48.491000+08:00","text":"如果您認為這是基本需求的話，這兩項回去研議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:48.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:49.432000+08:00","text":"是，我們來研議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:50.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:53.615000+08:00","text":"大概多久之內可以給本席一個研議的初步結果呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:54.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:59.863000+08:00","text":"研議完之後，如果要納入監獄行刑法，要經過修法的程序。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:00.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:04.784000+08:00","text":"可是基本上的話，我們可以從內部、我們的行政作為先把這部分鞏固住。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:05.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:20.569000+08:00","text":"我們會再全面了解目前各女監、女所現行的狀況，我們去做最合理的、最兼顧到委員提到的女性生理用品要足夠、要保障他們健康的需求，這邊我們來注意。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:21.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:22.971000+08:00","text":"好，感謝署長的支持。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:23.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:25.494000+08:00","text":"大概多久可以給我一個初步的報告呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:27.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:28.238000+08:00","text":"委員，可不可以三個月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:28.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:29.540000+08:00","text":"三個月，好，可以。謝謝。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:30.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:31.342000+08:00","text":"好，就這樣，謝謝署長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長憲銘","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:31.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:31.362000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:31.862000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:37.576286+08:00","text":"謝謝范雲委員，我也很支持范雲委員剛剛的意見。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:37.876286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:46.447714+08:00","text":"其實有時候矯正署那裡可以從行政作為先實行，也不見得一定需要修法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:46.747714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:50:04.462000+08:00","text":"現在行政院修法腳步真的太牛步了，要等到你們修法完之後再提供，我覺得緩不濟急，要儘量能夠從現在就可以提供，滿足所有女性受刑人的一些要求。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:50:04.762000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:50:09.904857+08:00","text":"現在先休息5分鐘，待會再請許宇甄委員發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:50:10.204857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:50:11.347714+08:00","text":"休息（10時50分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:50:11.647714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:50:13.362000+08:00","text":"繼續開會（10時56分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:50:13.662000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:50:15.376286+08:00","text":"現在繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:50:15.676286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:50:17.962000+08:00","text":"請許宇甄委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":533,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（10時39分）謝謝召委，有請林署長。"],["主席：請署長。"],["林署長憲銘：委員好。"],["范委員雲：署長您好。今天我們主要是關注受刑人，我想請問你關於女性受刑人基本生理用品的提供是否足夠這個問題。我想您知道監獄受刑人必要的物品跟日常生活必需品包含哪些項目吧？"],["林署長憲銘：是，清潔用品跟他的衣著這一類以及寢具都是基本的，我們看得到的他在監內的生活樣態，我們都會去注意。"],["范委員雲：好，所謂的清潔用品有包含哪些內容呢？"],["林署長憲銘：看個人身體或是他衣著的部分，如洗滌的、衣著的，還有他個人身體或是刷牙等等這些。"],["范委員雲：關於衛生紙跟生理用品，譬如說衛生棉算是基本的清潔用品嗎？"],["林署長憲銘：是，對女性來講是基本的。"],["范委員雲：可不可以告訴我們，就不同性別來講，他每個月可以得到的衛生紙跟衛生棉大概數量是多少？"],["林署長憲銘：跟委員報告，我們並不是無限量提供。"],["范委員雲：提供的量可以讓我們知道嗎？"],["林署長憲銘：如果他本身有經濟能力，我們有合作社，他可以自行去購買。"],["范委員雲：如果沒有經濟能力的、貧窮的受刑人呢？"],["林署長憲銘：沒有經濟能力的話，我們會由機關提供。基本上，我們兩個月會提供一次，包括毛巾、牙刷、牙膏、洗髮精、肥皂、洗衣粉等等，衛生紙是兩包。"],["范委員雲：我問一個月好了，一個月的話，女性生理用品是提供多少？"],["林署長憲銘：跟委員報告，其實我們每個場舍都有備品在那邊，女性收容人有需要的話，我們就會提供。"],["范委員雲：有需要就有提供嗎？"],["林署長憲銘：對，如果他本身沒有自購的能力，他有需要的話，我們主管都會馬上提供。"],["范委員雲：您知不知道提供的數量是多少？"],["林署長憲銘：就依他所需，一定不會讓他……"],["范委員雲：不夠用。"],["林署長憲銘：有欠缺的。對，一定夠用。"],["范委員雲：所以您覺得這樣是合理的？"],["林署長憲銘：基本上都是維持他生活所需。跟委員報告，我本身也在女子監獄當過典獄長，我有去了解這樣的情形。"],["范委員雲：所以您有在女子監獄當過……"],["林署長憲銘：對，女性的管理員他們都很會照顧女性收容人的，都本於這樣的同理心。這一方面要謝謝委員的關心。"],["范委員雲：如果實情跟署長講的一樣，我今天就不會質詢了。署長講的我覺得很合理，可是我們看到NGO做的各種訪談，好像實情跟您講的不太一樣。第一線的監獄工作者告訴我們說，若是女性一天只能用一片衛生棉。一片衛生棉就我們所知道，一般的生理健康而言，其實非常容易感染跟生病。我們也知道受刑人其實有基本的醫療需求，你們是會滿足。監獄現在總人數是多少？目前監獄總人數。"],["林署長憲銘：六萬五千七百多人。"],["范委員雲：如果他們因為基本的衛生而生病的話，也是加重監獄的負擔對不對？"],["林署長憲銘：是。"],["范委員雲：因為基本的醫療你們是有提供的。這邊我們看到的是，如果他生理用品不夠，他家境也不好的話，就你們的規則是可以用勞動換取。可是就目前我們看到112年國家人權委員會有關身障受刑人的報告，如果自己沒有錢買衛生棉的話，可以去抄佛經，1萬字可以換一包衛生棉，我們是不知道1萬字到底要抄多久，對貧困的受刑人來講，衛生棉變成奢侈品，因為就勞動來講，要1萬字換一包。針對貧困收容人的生理用品發放，是不是可以請您檢討一下？因為這邊講的是每兩個月發放衛生棉兩包，到底是不是像您剛剛講的還有備品、夠用等等，我們看到的數字跟訪談是不夠用的。如果他要買的話，收容人的勞動收入六成作為勞作金，所以每個月的平均收入不到500元，這樣沒錯吧？"],["林署長憲銘：沒錯，大概。"],["范委員雲：可是生理用品這裡賣一包65元，對他來講其實是一個沉重的負擔。他每個月收入500元還必須要處理包括也許衛生紙也不夠，或者其他的東西也不夠。就醫費用他們也需要部分負擔，是不是？"],["林署長憲銘：對，就醫費用，醫藥……"],["范委員雲：所以就您所知道，每個月的平均收入500元，大部分的受刑人都是用到哪裡，您了解嗎？"],["林署長憲銘：大部分的受刑人會買一些基本用品，還會買一些零食來吃，都有這樣的情形。因為他們本身也有家屬寄進來的保管金款項，不是只有勞作金而已。"],["范委員雲：了解。我們看到的是對於貧困的女性收容人，他的處境更加困難，因為他可能就要面臨取捨。如果他衛生紙不夠，其他的肥皂、牙刷也不夠的話，他可能就犧牲生理用品。這一方面我剛剛講了，如果他因此感染、健康不佳，其實也造成獄所的負擔；另一方面，我們就會發現，比較窮的女性收容人處境因為貧窮而更糟，加上跟男性收容人比起來，他每個月的負擔又更高了。我們不希望處境不佳的人又處於更糟糕的處境，這是今天我們所講的。","另外，根據NPOst公益交流站的專訪，基本需求的生理用品如果無法達到，家屬又沒有能力接濟他們的話，甚至會間接造成他們被霸凌的原因。我想監獄裡面的霸凌，你們應該都知道，其實是一個很難避免的狀況，雖然我知道監獄已經做了一些努力，可是還是很難避免。這個也是根據研究，造成這些貧困女性受刑人間接被霸凌的原因，因為他無法取得生理用品。這是監所關注小組陳惠敏的研究，女性收容人其實每個月的花費要1,650元。跟我們剛剛說的，他的勞動收入大概500元，如果不夠的話，其實基本的生活需求還有生理用品的需求是不足的。","謝謝剛剛署長的回應，基本上我想您不想看到這個狀況。也跟您提醒，臺灣一直希望加入聯合國，聯合國有女性受刑人處遇及女性罪犯非監禁措施規則，裡面規定應該要免費提供生理用品，裡面有提到，女性受刑人收容所應該具備滿足女性生理衛生所需的設施跟物質，包含免費的生理用品。就像您剛剛被我問的，您知道的是應該要有備品。如果這樣就符合聯合國對女性受刑人的規範，不要因為他是女性，又處於更不利的處境，這部分我想您是希望能夠達到的。","另外也跟署長分享，國際的研究顯示，不佳的月經衛生管理會導致心理跟生理的負面影響，就像我們剛剛講的，會讓他們的健康更差，先不要講對受刑人影響，其實監獄的醫療負擔又更加重了。現在學校裡面中小學都有免費的生理用品，紐約市議會也通過，監獄跟無家者安置機構也應該要提供，就是基於不應該讓他們因為這個需求而有更糟的處境。所以是不是請署長可以研議，您剛剛所說的跟現實的狀況中間如果有落差的話，要如何改善？讓女性受刑人至少有一個他不需要再去額外購買生理用品的可能性。另外因為監獄行刑法有明定哪些是基本需求，是不是也可以考慮把它明文納入？如果您認為這是基本需求的話，這兩項回去研議。"],["林署長憲銘：是，我們來研議。"],["范委員雲：大概多久之內可以給本席一個研議的初步結果呢？"],["林署長憲銘：研議完之後，如果要納入監獄行刑法，要經過修法的程序。可是基本上的話，我們可以從內部、我們的行政作為先把這部分鞏固住。我們會再全面了解目前各女監、女所現行的狀況，我們去做最合理的、最兼顧到委員提到的女性生理用品要足夠、要保障他們健康的需求，這邊我們來注意。"],["范委員雲：好，感謝署長的支持。大概多久可以給我一個初步的報告呢？"],["林署長憲銘：委員，可不可以三個月？"],["范委員雲：三個月，好，可以。"],["林署長憲銘：謝謝。"],["范委員雲：好，就這樣，謝謝署長。"],["林署長憲銘：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員，我也很支持范雲委員剛剛的意見。其實有時候矯正署那裡可以從行政作為先實行，也不見得一定需要修法。現在行政院修法腳步真的太牛步了，要等到你們修法完之後再提供，我覺得緩不濟急，要儘量能夠從現在就可以提供，滿足所有女性受刑人的一些要求。","現在先休息5分鐘，待會再請許宇甄委員發言。","休息（10時50分）","繼續開會（10時56分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。請許宇甄委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":316,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-36-24","speakers":["翁曉玲","陳昭姿","張雅琳","林倩綺","沈發惠","范雲","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","莊瑞雄","林沛祥","吳宗憲","蔡其昌","邱鎮軍","傅崐萁"],"page_start":255,"meetingDate":["2026-07-08"],"gazette_id":"1155901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查（一）行政院函請審議「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」\n案、（二）委員李柏毅等16人擬具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條條文修正草案」案、（三）委員\n王義川等17人擬具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」案、（四）委\n員吳思瑤等17人擬具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」案、（五）\n委員羅智強等17人擬具「監獄行刑法第六十三條條文修正草案」案、（六）委員徐欣瑩等17人擬\n具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」案、（七）委員翁曉玲等24人\n擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文修正草案」案、（八）委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文\n修正草案」案、（九）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文修正草案」案、（十）委員\n羅智強等17人擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155901_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}