{"error":false,"id":["170349"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170349,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170349","日期":"2026-07-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-08T10:41:10+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-08T11:00:45+08:00","影片長度":"00:19:35","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4fafa81be08c821001591309dd6181f18c89d092fec882f4d75944b02079af30c358bed1a557d1e65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"10:41:10 - 11:00:45","會議時間":"2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員黃健豪等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員陳超明等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員黃健豪等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員王育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】\n【討論事項第十七案，如經復議則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":5.95409375,"end":6.865343750000001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":7.77659375,"end":8.40096875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":9.075968750000001,"end":13.10909375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":13.244093750000001,"end":13.952843750000003,"speaker_score":0.85},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":17.09159375,"end":17.10846875,"speaker_score":0.85},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":17.10846875,"end":18.711593750000002,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":18.96471875,"end":49.59284375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":49.710968750000006,"end":51.14534375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":52.19159375,"end":55.17846875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":55.735343750000006,"end":57.28784375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":57.70971875,"end":58.31721875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":58.97534375,"end":60.34221875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":60.74721875,"end":69.50534375000001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":69.99471875,"end":84.13596875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"余組長俊明","start":79.93409375,"end":81.87471875,"speaker_score":0.748},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":84.60846875,"end":86.76846875000001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":86.80221875000001,"end":94.26096875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":94.86846875,"end":100.26846875000001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":100.72409375000001,"end":106.02284375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":107.03534375000001,"end":113.71784375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"余組長俊明","start":111.38909375,"end":111.86159375000001,"speaker_score":0.748},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"余組長俊明","start":112.45221875,"end":113.07659375,"speaker_score":0.748},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":113.92034375,"end":149.23971875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"余組長俊明","start":129.83346875,"end":129.85034375,"speaker_score":0.748},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":129.85034375,"end":133.44471875000002,"speaker_score":0.85},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"余組長俊明","start":135.11534375000002,"end":139.04721875,"speaker_score":0.748},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"余組長俊明","start":145.29096875000002,"end":145.49346875,"speaker_score":0.748},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":149.35784375,"end":160.51221875000002,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":160.64721875,"end":161.15346875,"speaker_score":0.85},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":161.47409375,"end":162.75659375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":164.46096875,"end":165.37221875,"speaker_score":0.85},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":165.38909375,"end":168.44346875000002,"speaker_score":0.85},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":166.26659375,"end":182.80409375000002,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"余組長俊明","start":178.21409375000002,"end":180.00284375,"speaker_score":0.748},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":182.88846875000002,"end":199.66221875000002,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖委員偉翔","start":201.18096875,"end":218.46096875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAK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已經都是賣完或者是已經那為什麼剛剛這個飯糰剛剛玉敏委員拿的這個飯糰它是7月6號製造還在架上還買得到 早上才買來的吧對不對報告委員讓我 能問我說明一下原來的油製造的即時的產品已經都已經過期了或者真的是我們的民眾是有"},{"start":315.814,"end":334.897,"text":"沒有我就問一個簡單的問題所以現在的油使用在製造的油在這些的即食品上面都不是那個批次的油所以你確定現在在架上的沒有一個是在批次上的油目前我們查到的那我想要請問民眾要如何知道它是不是因為我跟你說就是我們為什麼在"},{"start":336.538,"end":362.538,"text":"發布這一些產品的時候啊我們很小心因為對民眾來講他要怎麼知道你所謂的批號批次然後呢全台灣這麼多的便利商店這麼多的商家你怎麼確保每一個都確定在你們的規範範圍內下架了呢你上面民眾要怎麼去查這個批號所以過去有一句有這個你們曾經說過民進黨的政策裡面說過"},{"start":364.066,"end":382.438,"text":"從源頭做起的生產履歷資訊公開透明可以隨時查閱這是來自於民進黨官網的食安五環證件可是我剛剛光問這個問題就搞得民眾不煞煞我相信在場的委員媒體朋友也搞不清楚到底這到底要怎麼確定"},{"start":383.539,"end":405.087,"text":"好所以我再來問剛剛都說了問題由四處流竄也很難追得回來那在7月初如果先公布第二層名單就可以讓全台的小吃攤餐廳團餐廚房跟消費者立刻停用停食那在這關鍵的三天內有許多不知情的終端商家仍然繼續使用這批油在做烹作"},{"start":406.508,"end":426.959,"text":"那台北市後來也查出高達42所學校幼兒園曾經使用相關的油品所以如果提早三天公佈這些在發育期的學童跟幼兒都可能可以停止暴露在第一級的致癌物中可是第一時間你們卻選擇自我限制要業者自主改善就好等到輿論炸鍋你們才轉彎喔"},{"start":428.9,"end":451.522,"text":"那還同民眾多吃了三天的致癌油我想要請問這個是到底是誰授權的沒有 跟委員說明我們第一時間點就已經公布了泰山 福茂跟福壽這些油就是現在市面上在炸的那些油那個時候就已經停用了所以第一刻時間就已經停用了我們現在第二波發布的是它的加工品"},{"start":452.362,"end":478.978,"text":"不是油油都已經停用了但是他們這些消費者民眾也都還是暴露在這些一級制裁物的加工食品裡啊所以我想要請問啊今天有很多那剛剛說的這些辦團都已經是過期的來部長我們今天有很多人在討論你當初自己也坦承說第二層油品免下架這確實有點怪怪的所以我就是要追問想要請問一下部長卓院長在週一發表說他上星期就召開會議"},{"start":480.959,"end":495.74,"text":"然後還有知道進度所以我真的很想要替你報區一下我想問這個到底是卓榮泰院長拍板的嗎你們竟然跟他報告了也告訴他們你的處理狀況身為行政院最高的統一指揮官"},{"start":496.641,"end":512.409,"text":"他沒有意見所以我認為這就是他拍板的因為這個院長才有指示因為雖然我們按照的是106年的這個食品風險評估執意會那麼所訂出的這個下架原則那這個原則因為我們按照那個是106年原則所以院長才會指示說"},{"start":517.071,"end":531.623,"text":"那不然就再召開這個專家會議來重新就這個個案來檢視這個下架的原則是不是要調整所以才會有7月4號的會議所以他有沒有同意說你們後來宣布說第二層有品不用下架"},{"start":532.404,"end":553.97,"text":"那第二次的是7月4號7月4號的專家會議那我們執行就按照這個專家會議的結論好你一定是護航的啦你一定是不想要不想要說是院長沒有沒有我想要跟你說我們不只要解決當下的問題也要追究責任那最重要還要預防未來不可以再次發生所以部長"},{"start":555.219,"end":570.259,"text":"危害分析重要管制點是現代食品安全監控的基石但是過去也沒有把這個納入關鍵的這個控制點本篇筆的部分那未來你們對於黃豆進口要怎麼加強管制要逐批查驗嗎"},{"start":572.202,"end":599.898,"text":"我們在這個邊境當然對於進口的黃豆是有在抽驗不過我們現在因為整個黃豆的保存會受到條件的影響會有改變所以呢還是要從這個製造端這裡要來強化所以我們這一次也找了專家那也正是根據他的這個製程在檢討在哪一些節點上要加強管控部長那你們現在邊境管制的人力有多少人足夠嗎"},{"start":601.707,"end":627.629,"text":"當然這個人力是蠻緊的啦所以我們也需要增加所以每次遇到食安問題都需要逐批查驗所以接下來還有同樣存在高溫然後煙燻乾燥風險的食品可能還有可可豆白米可能有煙燻肉可能有水產柴魚片植物油那你們現在是只要查黃豆嗎還是跟這個致癌物有關的都要相關盤查那如果你只查黃豆那不就一樣是頭痛醫頭腳痛醫腳嗎"},{"start":629.651,"end":638.418,"text":"好 部長 這次食安事件我想要 因為已經擴及了不同的範圍學校國軍等等 所以我想要請教食安辦請食安辦主任"},{"start":639.588,"end":662.781,"text":"在民國103年的時候當時的收水油風暴那時任的台南市長賴清德總統公開主張食安就是國安要求召集中央地方政府立法部門行政部門然後並且批評當時的執政黨說以總統之尊把責任推給地方那如今賴清德總統已經是總統了這批"},{"start":663.641,"end":680.096,"text":"毒油已經擴及的範圍非常的大也流入全台校園午餐那情勢跟影響範圍都非常嚴重當年他要中央站出來要提升到國安層級處理我想要請問主任或者是部長你們如果可以回答都可以總統這一次什麼時候要召開國安會議"},{"start":681.497,"end":693.232,"text":"還是食安只有在野的時候才叫做國安現在執政了就沒大事了就不是這樣事實上那他什麼時候要召開你們什麼時候要召開所謂的食安及國安的國安程序處理的會議我們在"},{"start":694.577,"end":714.442,"text":"行政院就會有跨部會的會不會要到那所以之前那所以你是打臉以前賴清德賴清德當委員的時候當市長的時候他說要召開這個國安及食安那所以就要召開這個國安級的會議你覺得不需要應該是委員這邊是誤解就我們確實在"},{"start":716.423,"end":737.974,"text":"重視食安的事情上面是但是很重視嗎你們完全失能啊你完全失能啊你是跨部會行政院層級的現在這些有進去了國軍進去了校園那你們在做什麼為什麼我也覺得很好奇啊現在那你到底在幹嘛你食安辦每一次好像出來都沒有你的事然後都推得一乾二淨"},{"start":740.179,"end":766.401,"text":"嗯報告裡面是有寫相關部會的統合我們都有在努力啦有在努力但是到底做了什麼都流進校園了你們的教育部長還跑去輔選那你們到底做了什麼呢所以我們要很快速的你有阻斷到嗎離清範圍如果已經吃了我們當然會有困難嘛那我們會立刻防止會有新的好徐主任我再問你喔當時的民進黨主席啊前總統蔡英文也說過"},{"start":767.162,"end":788.124,"text":"收水油並非單一事件而是一連串問題的其中一環政務官下台是必然我想要請問本案中聯油的問題到現在為止油品食安五環中的源頭控管源頭出差錯那之前又有蓋牌的問題整個食安五環系統性的崩壞我想要請問一下食安辦你們是什麼時候掌握這件事情"},{"start":789.012,"end":810.88,"text":"我們這一次收通報是在7月1號7月1號那你們說廠商有延遲責任你們延後知情延後下架延後公佈有沒有延遲責任你們怎麼全部都把責任都給廠商我想要請問食安辦你是行政院的層級那你認為民進黨政府這一次是哪一個單位應該負起政治責任要怎麼負責"},{"start":812.521,"end":834.978,"text":"我們現在一定趕快把事情處理好那您剛有講到說延遲延誤的部分我們已經啟動跟減掉的相關機制我要再問食安辦了民進黨喊了食安五環 喊了十多年了蔡英文當時也說要從源頭全面監控追蹤有毒物質"},{"start":835.878,"end":863.426,"text":"賴清德擔任行政院長的時候也說要建立食品業者身份管理體系做到供應鏈管理 稽查 滾動檢討結果到了2026年中聯油的毒油仍然從源頭混入供應鏈致有毒物超標 油品流入下油這算不算是源頭管理破功確實源頭管理我們做得還不夠好所以是源頭管理破功囉報告"},{"start":865.444,"end":886.065,"text":"有做起來的部分都還有在做所以這邊肯定是在呃源頭所以你剛說確實做的不夠好嗎你剛有說嘛對不對是好那卓榮泰院長去年才說食安五環要有效的降低台灣系統性的食品安全問題還要加強上下游的防火牆是"},{"start":887.247,"end":902.547,"text":"當時的邱太元部長也說要推動食安五環2.0對不對從農場到餐桌每一環都要符合安全規範結果現在下游廠商跟民眾一再的受害追溯的資訊也不透明還要靠客戶"},{"start":904.049,"end":930.511,"text":"停貨媒體揭露才爆出來那這算不算是防火牆失靈算不算是五環的2.0剛上路就破工我們做的確實還不夠好那我想要跟文做一個說明就是我們做食安的管理有一點像說像交通我們盡量每一天所以你就照我的問題回答你剛剛說做的不夠好我剛剛說破工嘛你說做的不夠好"},{"start":931.492,"end":952.885,"text":"那你們10年前說要10倍查驗10年後還是出現了查驗的空白10年前說全民監督10年後是業者靠業者自己良心來自救那請問食安辦明確回答一下食安五環到底是政府的制度承諾還是每次出事就拿來糊弄人民的口號這不是跳票什麼叫做跳票"},{"start":954.261,"end":976.101,"text":"我們在食安五環的框架下 在各個領域都繼續的去強化 去完善我們不能再繼續已經讓一千多噸的這種有毒有流竄在市面上所以食安辦賴清德總統不是今天才碰到食安問題他2018年當時行政院長主持食安匯報的時候"},{"start":977.142,"end":996.111,"text":"就說政府會持續落實食安五環要加強查驗及主動查查發現問題還說食安首重是源頭管理前端要做好管控劣質或不法原料就不會流入食品供應鏈結果今天2026了"},{"start":998.052,"end":1009.022,"text":"今天中聯獨有問題不就是劣質高風險的原料從源頭混入供應鏈嗎這算不算是當時的行政院長賴清德當年承諾的源頭管理破功我們還是你沒辦法回答因為你不敢回答"},{"start":1017.285,"end":1032.632,"text":"賴清德當上總統之後他從520就職也提出所謂的五環的2.0食安政策朱鎔泰院長也說要導入AI完善食品安全的防護網邱太元部長說食品安全是賴清德總統健康政策的重點"},{"start":1034.633,"end":1061.086,"text":"從農場到餐桌每一環都符合安全規範結果現在中聯事件爆發後賴清德只剩下說該停產就停產該下架就下架資訊公開透明依法就責所以我要問10年前說源頭管控10年後還在事後下架當院長的時候說全程監控當總統的時候說五環2.0結果還是獨游流入下游這算不算跳票"},{"start":1061.886,"end":1063.47,"text":"五環2.0算不算破功"},{"start":1065.297,"end":1089.786,"text":"呃食安五環就是我們持續在各個方向繼續把食安去做好這一次發生這個事件我們看到有這個我們趕快處理問題限制他的這一些產品擴散來我們食安辦主任不要希望再有下一次發生那您一直問說所以你的食安承諾其實到底是真正能夠解決問題的制度呢還是每次出現問題的時候拿來滅火的一個口號"},{"start":1093.407,"end":1116.218,"text":"所以我要總結一下民進黨當年在野的時候遇到食安問題就說食安是國安要求中央地方立法行政一起面對蔡英文也說政務官本來就要負起行政及政治責任下台是必然可是今天輪到民進黨完全執政的時候從蘇丹紅進口蛋到現在中聯油脂1300多噸的致癌大豆油人民看到的是什麼"},{"start":1117.23,"end":1144.278,"text":"看到的是源頭沒有管住茶宴沒有攔下名單不公開下架慢半拍行政院遭遇到這麼多起食安事件前端預防大破功原本至少人民還可以期待善後插屁股民進黨已經經驗老到匆匆容容游刃有餘但是最後是朝令夕改甚至三改有品追不回商品沒辦法下架然後被國人痛批後才政策轉彎毒油亂竄院長神隱"},{"start":1147.523,"end":1171.843,"text":"然後有教育部長到處輔選啊政府失能罔顧食安甩鍋地方民進黨在野的時候是馬英九、江一華負責現在中央執政的變成蔣萬安、盧秀燕負責難道民進黨的功能就只剩下負責叫別人負責嗎為人民把關監督政府這整件事情我們認為真正應該就責的是總統必須道歉院長必須下台負責謝謝謝謝廖委員的諮詢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:18.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:23.516000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請石崇良部長、姜署長及食安辦主任。請。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:23.516000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:41:29.201000+08:00","text":"廖委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:41:29.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:00.726000+08:00","text":"這一起食安風暴非常嚴重，而且一看就知道我們食安五環完全破功，尤其是只有寡占少數的煉油廠，這麼重大的環節，政府居然沒有一個好的把關機制，而且在他換原料的時候，居然沒有相關的要求說換原料就應該要送驗，等到他驗出來是安全的才可以出到市場，所以這件事情完全看得出來政府、行政院要負最大的責任。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:02.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:12.347000+08:00","text":"部長，我想要先請問，剛剛大家都很關心油品的流向問題，這次出問題的毒油，你們都清點完了嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:12.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:14.009000+08:00","text":"回收了多少噸？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:14.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:19.176000+08:00","text":"所有毒油的銷售流向及加工流向，你們都完全清楚了嗎？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:20.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:31.020000+08:00","text":"這個流向都已經掌握了，量也大概都掌握住，因為這個是比較早，是4月所製造的油，所以現在回收的量確實已經不多。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:31.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:36.922000+08:00","text":"我看了一下，你們的報告說現在回收四十三點多噸，其實回收率只有3.3%，。對。","quality":0.677},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:37.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:48.037000+08:00","text":"就像你剛剛說的，從4月就開始販售，你們在6月底知情，發生也超過一個多禮拜，所以是不是大部分都有可能被民眾吃下肚了？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:48.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:52.183000+08:00","text":"你們預估可以追回多少，請問一個具體的數字？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:52.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:55.328000+08:00","text":"剛剛也有委員問類似的問題，但是沒有具體的數字。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:42:57.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:42:59.984000+08:00","text":"追回的大概差不多就是這個噸數了，因為多數已經……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:01.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:02.645000+08:00","text":"所以剩下的都追不回來了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:02.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:04.026000+08:00","text":"因為都已經……","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:04.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:05.647000+08:00","text":"那也很可怕耶！","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:05.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:09.449000+08:00","text":"這是一千多噸，所以你也承認現在這些就已經是確定的數字？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:09.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:10.849000+08:00","text":"對，差不多就是這樣。哇！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:11.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:17.333000+08:00","text":"各位媒體朋友，現在在市面上流通、不知道掌握去哪裡的還有一千兩百多噸。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:17.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:19.274000+08:00","text":"那個都已經下架了，有用到的都已經下架。","quality":0.471},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:20.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:21.496000+08:00","text":"你說還有多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:21.496000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:22.496000+08:00","text":"有多少在市面上流通？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:21.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:27.040000+08:00","text":"因為它已經不是以油的原型狀況存在，所以通通都是……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:27.040000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:28.040000+08:00","text":"所以已經變成加工品？","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:27.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:28.501000+08:00","text":"加工品你們是沒有辦法追蹤的？對。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:29.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:30.262000+08:00","text":"加工品你們是沒辦法追蹤的？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:30.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:35.205000+08:00","text":"加工品就是現在我們所發布的這些產品，讓它預防性下架。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:35.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:42.550000+08:00","text":"部長，我跟你說，福懋說他賣了12噸給一個長鑫商行，但是長鑫商行卻表示它根本沒有買到，也沒有收到。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:43.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:47.154000+08:00","text":"請問這十幾噸的致癌沙拉油流向哪裡、被誰吃下去？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:47.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:49.335000+08:00","text":"有辦法追查出來嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:49.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:50.296000+08:00","text":"請問是有辦法還是沒辦法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:55.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:43:57.801000+08:00","text":"這部分我們確認完再跟委員報告。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:43:58.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:07.771000+08:00","text":"我剛剛主要的問題是，這是一個個案，其中一個案例，可是它是系統性的問題，你們是追不回來的，你們剛剛還說要回去確認，代表你們根本就沒有辦法掌握嘛！","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:07.771000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:08.771000+08:00","text":"應該是有紀錄。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:08.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:18.445000+08:00","text":"我想要問加工的問題，剛剛也有委員問飯糰的問題，你們7月6號的時候是說20%以上下架，後來7月7號又說全部要下架。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:19.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:29.420000+08:00","text":"我想要問你們，下架的標準是依照製造日期在你們7月7號宣布以後20%以下的才要下架，還是以前的也都要下架？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:31.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:44.261000+08:00","text":"因為我們在發布的時候會特別去標註，有些使用這個油所製造的產品已經超過有效日期了，所以它就沒有下架的問題，我舉例來講……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:45.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:52.669000+08:00","text":"部長，我問你，如果製造日期是7月6號的，它需要在7月7號的時候下架嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:52.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:44:53.110000+08:00","text":"不用、不用。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:44:53.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:05.017000+08:00","text":"所以現在就是在7月7號宣布以前20%以下的還是一樣在市面上流通，只有7月7號以後製造20%以下的才要？不是。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:05.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:06.138000+08:00","text":"不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:06.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:10.181000+08:00","text":"不是，我們在公布的網頁上面有寫得很清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:10.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:17.206000+08:00","text":"我問你，為什麼這個飯糰……剛剛育敏委員也有拿，我看了一下，它的製造日期是7月6號，還在架上賣耶！","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:17.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:17.826000+08:00","text":"這是OK的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:17.826000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:18.826000+08:00","text":"這是OK的？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:18.826000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:19.826000+08:00","text":"這個是OK的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:17.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:17.966000+08:00","text":"但你剛剛又說不是，我剛剛就問你……","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:17.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:19.908000+08:00","text":"沒有，我要說的不是是指我們所列出的這些飯糰，後面會講已逾有效日期，所以這個在市面上不會流通，因此沒有下架的問題。","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:19.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:20.068000+08:00","text":"這個沒有逾有效日期啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:34.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:36.601000+08:00","text":"它是7月6號製造，有效日期到7月9號，它還在架上耶！","quality":0.474},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:36.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:44.105000+08:00","text":"不是，我們的意思是，這一批用到問題油的已經都沒有在架上了，它已經逾有效日期。","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:45.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:47.888000+08:00","text":"所以你的意思是，現在在架上的這個是沒有……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:48.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:50.429000+08:00","text":"這個還沒有逾有效日期的都是安全的。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:52.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:45:54.512000+08:00","text":"你可不可以再講清楚一下你們的標準到底是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:45:54.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:06.440000+08:00","text":"就是它用這個油所做出的產品，現在已經在市面上不會存在了，因為它已經下架了，已經都是賣完或已經超過有效日期。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:08.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:11.605000+08:00","text":"為什麼剛剛育敏委員拿的這個飯糰是7月6號製造卻還在架上？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:12.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:13.367000+08:00","text":"還買得到，早上才買來的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:14.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:25.834000+08:00","text":"報告委員，容我說明一下，原來的油所製造的即食產品都已經過期了，或者真的是我們民眾有……","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:26.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:26.595000+08:00","text":"我就問一個簡單的問題……","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:26.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:34.304000+08:00","text":"所以現在使用在製造的油，在這些即食品上面都不是那個批次的油，所以是沒有關係的。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:34.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:38.169000+08:00","text":"所以你確定現在在架上的沒有一個是在那個批次上的油？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:38.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:39.330000+08:00","text":"目前我們查到的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:39.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:42.314000+08:00","text":"我想要請問，民眾要如何知道它是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:43.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:44.216000+08:00","text":"我跟你說……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:44.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:51.142000+08:00","text":"我們為什麼在發布這一些產品的時候很小心？因為……","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:51.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:46:54.184000+08:00","text":"請問，對於民眾來講，他要怎麼知道你所謂的批號、批次？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:46:55.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:47:03.732000+08:00","text":"全臺灣這麼多的便利商店、這麼多的商家，你怎麼確保每一個都確定在你們的規範範圍內下架的呢？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:47:05.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:47:07.354000+08:00","text":"民眾要怎麼去查這個批號？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:47:08.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:47:21.071000+08:00","text":"過去有一句話，民進黨的政策裡面有說過：從源頭做起的生產履歷，資訊公開透明，可以隨時查閱。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:47:21.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:47:32.418000+08:00","text":"這是來自於民進黨官網的食安五環政見，可是我剛剛光問這個問題就搞得民眾「霧煞煞」，我相信在場的委員、媒體朋友也搞不清楚，這到底要怎麼確定？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:47:34.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:01.631000+08:00","text":"我再來問，剛剛都說了，問題油四處流竄，也很難追得回來，在7月初如果先公布第二層名單，就可以讓全臺的小吃攤、餐廳、團膳廚房跟消費者立刻停用、停食，在這關鍵的3天內，有許多不知情的終端商家仍然繼續使用這批油在烹作，臺北市後來也查出高達42所學校、幼兒園曾經使用相關的油品。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:02.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:21.002000+08:00","text":"如果提早3天公布，這些在發育期的學童跟幼兒都可能可以停止暴露在一級致癌物中，可是第一時間你們卻選擇自我限制，要業者自主改善就好，等到輿論炸鍋你們才轉彎，讓孩童、民眾多吃了3天的致癌油。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:21.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:23.865000+08:00","text":"我想要請問，這個到底是誰授權的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:24.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:34.115000+08:00","text":"沒有，跟委員說明，我們第一時間點就已經公布泰山、福懋及福壽等這些油，就是現在市面上在炸的那些油……","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:34.115000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:35.115000+08:00","text":"但是你們沒有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:34.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:44.804000+08:00","text":"那個時候就已經停用了，所以第一時間就已經停用了，我們現在第二波發布的是它的加工品，不是油，油都已經停用了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:44.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:49.667000+08:00","text":"但是這些消費者、民眾也都還是暴露在這些一級致癌物的加工食品裡啊！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:49.667000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:50.767000+08:00","text":"這些食品都已經下來了啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:50.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:53.129000+08:00","text":"我想要請問，今天有很多……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:54.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:48:56.431000+08:00","text":"剛剛說的那些都已經是過期的。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:48:56.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:12.181000+08:00","text":"部長，今天有很多人在討論，你當初自己也坦承說，第2層油品免下架確實有點怪怪的，所以我就是要追問，想要請問一下部長，卓院長在週一發表說：上星期就召開會議、知道進度。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:13.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:19.772000+08:00","text":"所以我真的很想要替你抱屈一下，我想問這個到底是卓榮泰院長拍板的嗎？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:19.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:30.643000+08:00","text":"你們既然跟他報告了，也告訴你的處理狀況，身為行政院最高統御指揮官，他沒有意見，所以我認為這就是他拍板的。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:31.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:40.388000+08:00","text":"沒有，因為這個，院長才有指示，雖然我們按照的是106年食品風險評估諮議會所訂出的下架原則……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:40.388000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:41.388000+08:00","text":"你都講完了，院長還同意了，代表他認同嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:40.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:49:57.820000+08:00","text":"因為我們按照106年的原則，所以院長才會指示說，不然再召開這個專家會議，重新就這個個案來檢視下架的原則是不是要調整，所以才會有7月4號的會議。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:49:57.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:50:01.603000+08:00","text":"所以他有沒有同意你們後來宣布第2層油品不用下架？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:50:02.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:50:04.044000+08:00","text":"第二次是7月4號……","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:50:04.044000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:50:05.044000+08:00","text":"部長，因為你那個時候有跟他報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:50:04.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:50:10.806000+08:00","text":"7月4號的專家會議，我們之後執行就按照這個專家會議的結論。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:50:10.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:50:14.967000+08:00","text":"你一定是護航的，你一定是不想要說是院長通過的。沒有！","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:50:14.967000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:50:15.967000+08:00","text":"這個程序上是這樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:50:15.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:50:39.277000+08:00","text":"我想要跟你說，我們不只要解決當下的問題，也要追究責任，最重要的，還要預防未來不可以再次發生，所以部長，危害分析重要管制點是現在食品安全監控的基石，但是過去也沒有把苯駢芘納入關鍵的控制點，未來你們對於黃豆進口要怎麼加強管制？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:50:39.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:50:40.259000+08:00","text":"要逐批查驗嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:50:42.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:51:06.757000+08:00","text":"我們在邊境管制，當然對於進口黃豆是有在抽驗，不過因為整個黃豆的保存會受到條件的影響有所改變，所以還是要從製造端來強化，所以我們這一次也找了專家，也根據它的製程在檢討，在哪一些節點上要加強管控、抽驗。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:51:07.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:51:09.658000+08:00","text":"部長，你們現在邊境管制的人力有多少人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:51:09.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:51:09.898000+08:00","text":"足夠嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T10:51:11.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:51:14.970000+08:00","text":"當然人力是蠻緊的啦，所以我們也是要增加。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:51:15.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:51:31.304000+08:00","text":"所以每次遇到食安問題都說要逐批查驗，接下來還有同樣存在高溫、煙燻、乾燥製程風險的食品，可能有可可豆、白米、煙燻肉、水產、柴魚片、植物油，你們現在是只要查黃豆嗎？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:51:31.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:51:34.126000+08:00","text":"還是跟致癌物有關的都要做相關盤查？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:51:34.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:51:37.629000+08:00","text":"如果你只查黃豆，那不就一樣是頭痛醫頭、腳痛醫腳嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:51:39.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:51:47.878000+08:00","text":"部長，這次食安事件，因為已經擴及了不同的範圍，學校、國軍等等，所以我想要請教食安辦。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:51:47.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:51:48.398000+08:00","text":"請食安辦主任。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:51:48.398000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:51:49.588000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:51:49.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:52:08.979000+08:00","text":"在民國103年的時候，當時的餿水油風暴，時任臺南市長的賴清德總統公開主張「食安就是國安」，要求召集中央、地方政府、立法部門、行政部門，並且批評當時的執政黨說：以總統之尊，把責任推給地方。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:52:09.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:52:30.096000+08:00","text":"如今賴清德總統已經是總統了，這批毒油擴及的範圍已經非常地大，也流入全臺校園午餐，情勢跟影響範圍都非常嚴重，當年他要中央站出來提升到國安層級處理，我想要請問主任或者是部長，你們若可以回答都可以，總統這次什麼時候要召開國安會議？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:52:31.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:52:36.103000+08:00","text":"還是食安只有在野的時候才叫做國安，現在執政了就沒他的事了？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:52:36.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:52:37.865000+08:00","text":"絕不是這樣，事實上……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:52:38.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:52:42.812000+08:00","text":"那他什麼時候要召開，你們什麼時候要召開所謂的食安及國安的國安層級處理的會議？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:52:42.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:52:47.618000+08:00","text":"我們在行政院就會有跨部會的會議，不會要到總統府的國安會議。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:52:49.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:00.821000+08:00","text":"所以你是打臉以前賴清德當市長的時候，他說食安即國安，所以要召開國安級的會議，你覺得不需要？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:01.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:08.404000+08:00","text":"應該是委員這邊誤解，我們確實在重視食安的事情上面，是相當於全國一致優先在處理中……","quality":0.649},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:09.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:10.785000+08:00","text":"都是很重視嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:10.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:13.386000+08:00","text":"你們完全失能啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:13.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:21.510000+08:00","text":"你是跨部會行政院層級的，現在這些油進去了國軍、進去了校園，你們在做什麼？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:21.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:21.751000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:21.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:23.691000+08:00","text":"我也覺得很好奇，現在你到底在幹嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:24.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:27.974000+08:00","text":"食安辦每一次出事好像都沒有你的事，然後都推得一乾二淨。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:30.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:35.103000+08:00","text":"報告裡面是有寫到相關部會的統合，我們都有在努力啦，剛剛有講到說……","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:35.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:36.845000+08:00","text":"有在努力，但是到底做了什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:36.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:42.369000+08:00","text":"都流進校園了，你們的教育部長還跑去輔選，那你們到底做什麼呢？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:42.369000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:43.369000+08:00","text":"國防部呢？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:42.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:43.590000+08:00","text":"所以我們要很快速地就問題釐清範圍……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:43.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:45.892000+08:00","text":"你有阻斷到嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:46.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:53:51.757000+08:00","text":"如果已經吃了，我們當然會有困難，我們會立刻防止有新的可能流入到哪邊去……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:53:52.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:54:02.187000+08:00","text":"許主任，我再問你，當時的民進黨主席前總統蔡英文也說過，餿水油並非單一事件，而是一連串問題的其中一環，政務官下臺是必然。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:54:02.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:54:18.104000+08:00","text":"我想要請問本案中聯油的問題，到現在為止，油品食安五環中的源頭控管，源頭出差錯，之前又有蓋牌的問題，整個食安五環系統性的崩壞，我想要請問一下食安辦，你們是什麼時候掌握這件事情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:54:19.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:54:24.834000+08:00","text":"我們這一次收通報是在7月1號。7月1號？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:54:24.834000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:54:25.834000+08:00","text":"對，我們在報告上有提到。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:54:25.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:54:30.516000+08:00","text":"你們說廠商有延遲責任，讓你們延後知情、延後下架、延後公布，有沒有延遲責任？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:54:31.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:54:33.217000+08:00","text":"你們怎麼全部都把責任丟給廠商？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:54:33.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:54:40.360000+08:00","text":"我想要請問食安辦，你是行政院的層級，你認為民進黨政府這一次是哪一個單位應該負起政治責任？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:54:40.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:54:40.880000+08:00","text":"要怎麼負責？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:54:42.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:54:55.951000+08:00","text":"我們現在一定趕快把事情處理好，您剛才有講到延遲、延誤的部分，我們已經啟動跟檢調的相關機制，已經開始啟動了。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:54:56.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:55:25.263000+08:00","text":"我要再問食安辦，民進黨喊了食安五環喊了十多年了，蔡英文當時也說要從源頭全面監控、追蹤有毒物質；賴清德擔任行政院長的時候也說要建立食品業者身分管理體系，做到供應鏈管理、稽查、滾動檢討，結果到了2026年，中聯油的毒油仍然從源頭混入供應鏈，導致有毒物超標油品流入下游，這算不算是源頭管理破功？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:55:27.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:55:30.305000+08:00","text":"確實源頭管理我們做得還不夠好，那我也想要跟委員報告……","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:55:31.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:55:32.626000+08:00","text":"所以是源頭管理破功？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:55:35.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:55:42.051000+08:00","text":"有做起來的部分都還有在做，所以這邊肯定是在源頭管理上沒有做好。","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:55:42.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:55:43.432000+08:00","text":"所以你剛剛說確實做得不夠好嘛！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:55:43.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:55:45.074000+08:00","text":"你剛剛有說，對不對？是。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:55:45.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:56:02.794000+08:00","text":"好，卓榮泰院長去年才說食安五環要有效降低臺灣系統性食品安全問題，還要加強上下游的防火牆，當時的邱泰源部長也說要推動食安五環2.0，對不對？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:56:02.794000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:56:03.794000+08:00","text":"對，這是我們食安辦在規劃的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:56:02.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:56:18.813000+08:00","text":"從農場到餐桌，每一環都要符合安全規範，結果現在下游廠商跟民眾一再受害，追溯的資訊也不透明，還要靠客戶停貨、媒體揭露才報出來，這算不算是防火牆失靈？","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:56:18.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:56:21.756000+08:00","text":"算不算是五環2.0剛上路就破功？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:56:22.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:56:32.625000+08:00","text":"我們做得確實還不夠好，我想要跟委員做一個說明，我們做食安的管理有一點像交通，我們儘量每一天盡力地把它阻攔下來……","quality":0.745},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:56:33.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:56:38.310000+08:00","text":"我剛剛問了，你就照我的問題回答，你剛剛說做得不夠好？是。","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:56:38.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:56:40.491000+08:00","text":"我剛剛說破功，你說做得不夠好。對。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:56:41.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:56:52.218000+08:00","text":"你們十年前說要十倍查驗，十年後還是出現查驗的空白；十年前說全民監督，十年後是靠業者自己良心來自救。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:56:53.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:57:01.504000+08:00","text":"請食安辦明確回答一下，食安五環到底是政府的制度承諾，還是每次出事都拿來糊弄人民的口號？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:57:01.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:57:02.865000+08:00","text":"這不是跳票什麼叫做跳票？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:57:04.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:57:13.369000+08:00","text":"我們在食安五環的框架下面，在各個領域都繼續地去強化、去完善，我們不能夠說……","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:57:14.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:57:45.090000+08:00","text":"你的繼續已經讓一千多噸的有毒油流竄在市面上，所以食安辦，賴清德總統不是今天才碰到食安問題，他2018年當時行政院長主持食安會報的時候，就說政府會持續落實食安五環，要加強查驗及主動查察發現問題，還說食安首重是源頭管理，前端要做好管控，劣質或不法原料就不會流入食品供應鏈。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:57:45.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:57:54.017000+08:00","text":"結果今年2026了，今天中聯毒油問題不就是劣質、高風險的原料從源頭混入供應鏈嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:57:54.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:57:58.301000+08:00","text":"這算不算是當時的行政院長賴清德當年承諾的源頭管理破功？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:57:58.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:57:58.381000+08:00","text":"我們還是有在管……","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:57:58.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:57:58.522000+08:00","text":"你沒辦法回答？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:57:58.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:57:59.002000+08:00","text":"因為你不敢回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:58:07.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:58:28.254000+08:00","text":"當賴清德當上總統之後，他從520就職也提出所謂的食安五環2.0政策；卓榮泰院長也說要導入AI完善食品安全防護網；邱泰源部長說食品安全是賴清德總統健康政策的重點，從農場到餐桌，每一環都符合安全規範。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:58:28.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:58:38.339000+08:00","text":"結果現在中聯事件爆發後，賴清德只剩下說：該停產就停產、該下架就下架，資訊公開透明，依法就責。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:58:38.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:58:51.066000+08:00","text":"所以我要問十年前說源頭管控，十年後還在事後下架；當院長的時候說全程監控，當總統的時候說五環2.0，結果還是毒油流入下游，這算不算跳票？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:58:51.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:58:53.450000+08:00","text":"五環2.0算不算破功？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:58:55.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:59:07.562000+08:00","text":"食安五環就是我們在各個方向繼續把食安做好，這一次發生這個事件，趕快處理問題，限制這一些產品擴散……","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:59:07.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:59:08.502000+08:00","text":"來，我們食安辦主任，你剛剛還是講食安五環……","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-07-08T10:59:08.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:59:14.164000+08:00","text":"希望不要再有下一次發生，您一直問是不是跳票……","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:59:14.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:59:19.786000+08:00","text":"所以你的食安承諾到底是真正能夠解決問題的制度，還是每次出現問題的時候拿來滅火的一個口號？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:59:23.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:59:46.218000+08:00","text":"最後我要總結一下，民進黨當年在野的時候，遇到食安問題就說食安是國安，要求中央、地方、立法、行政一起面對；蔡英文也說政務官本來就要負起行政及政治責任，下台是必然，可是今天輪到民進黨完全執政的時候，從蘇丹紅、進口蛋到現在中聯油脂1,300公噸的致癌大豆油，人民看到什麼？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T10:59:47.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:00:23.068000+08:00","text":"看到的是源頭沒有管住、查驗沒有攔下、名單不公開、下架慢半拍，行政院遭遇到這麼多起食安事件，前端預防大破功，原本至少人民還可以期待善後，擦屁股民進黨已經經驗老到，從從容容，游刃有餘，但是最後是朝令夕改，甚至三改，油品追不回，商品沒辦法下架，然後被國人痛批後才政策轉彎，毒油亂竄，院長神隱，然後有教育部長到處輔選，政府失能，罔顧食安，甩鍋地方。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T11:00:23.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:00:34.357000+08:00","text":"民進黨在野的時候是馬英九、江宜樺負責，現在中央執政了，變成蔣萬安、盧秀燕負責，難道民進黨的功能就只剩下負責叫別人負責嗎？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"廖委員偉翔","start":"2026-07-08T11:00:34.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:00:41.463000+08:00","text":"為人民把關監督政府，這整件事情我們認為真正應該究責的是總統必須道歉，院長必須下臺負責，謝謝。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:00:41.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:00:41.843000+08:00","text":"謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:00:42.343000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:00:47.485857+08:00","text":"待會兒在蘇清泉委員質詢完畢後休息10分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:00:47.785857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:00:50.643000+08:00","text":"現在請林月琴召委質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":737,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（10時41分）謝謝主席，有請石崇良部長、姜署長及食安辦主任。"],["主席：請。"],["石部長崇良：廖委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：這一起食安風暴非常嚴重，而且一看就知道我們食安五環完全破功，尤其是只有寡占少數的煉油廠，這麼重大的環節，政府居然沒有一個好的把關機制，而且在他換原料的時候，居然沒有相關的要求說換原料就應該要送驗，等到他驗出來是安全的才可以出到市場，所以這件事情完全看得出來政府、行政院要負最大的責任。部長，我想要先請問，剛剛大家都很關心油品的流向問題，這次出問題的毒油，你們都清點完了嗎？回收了多少噸？所有毒油的銷售流向及加工流向，你們都完全清楚了嗎？"],["石部長崇良：這個流向都已經掌握了，量也大概都掌握住，因為這個是比較早，是4月所製造的油，所以現在回收的量確實已經不多。"],["廖委員偉翔：我看了一下，你們的報告說現在回收四十三點多噸，其實回收率只有3.3%，。"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：就像你剛剛說的，從4月就開始販售，你們在6月底知情，發生也超過一個多禮拜，所以是不是大部分都有可能被民眾吃下肚了？你們預估可以追回多少，請問一個具體的數字？剛剛也有委員問類似的問題，但是沒有具體的數字。"],["石部長崇良：追回的大概差不多就是這個噸數了，因為多數已經……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以剩下的都追不回來了？"],["石部長崇良：因為都已經……"],["廖委員偉翔：那也很可怕耶！這是一千多噸，所以你也承認現在這些就已經是確定的數字？"],["石部長崇良：對，差不多就是這樣。"],["廖委員偉翔：哇！各位媒體朋友，現在在市面上流通、不知道掌握去哪裡的還有一千兩百多噸。"],["石部長崇良：那個都已經下架了，有用到的都已經下架。"],["廖委員偉翔：你說還有多少？有多少在市面上流通？"],["石部長崇良：因為它已經不是以油的原型狀況存在，所以通通都是……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以已經變成加工品？加工品你們是沒有辦法追蹤的？"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：加工品你們是沒辦法追蹤的？"],["石部長崇良：加工品就是現在我們所發布的這些產品，讓它預防性下架。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我跟你說，福懋說他賣了12噸給一個長鑫商行，但是長鑫商行卻表示它根本沒有買到，也沒有收到。請問這十幾噸的致癌沙拉油流向哪裡、被誰吃下去？有辦法追查出來嗎？請問是有辦法還是沒辦法？"],["姜署長至剛：這部分我們確認完再跟委員報告。"],["廖委員偉翔：我剛剛主要的問題是，這是一個個案，其中一個案例，可是它是系統性的問題，你們是追不回來的，你們剛剛還說要回去確認，代表你們根本就沒有辦法掌握嘛！"],["石部長崇良：應該是有紀錄。"],["廖委員偉翔：我想要問加工的問題，剛剛也有委員問飯糰的問題，你們7月6號的時候是說20%以上下架，後來7月7號又說全部要下架。我想要問你們，下架的標準是依照製造日期在你們7月7號宣布以後20%以下的才要下架，還是以前的也都要下架？"],["石部長崇良：因為我們在發布的時候會特別去標註，有些使用這個油所製造的產品已經超過有效日期了，所以它就沒有下架的問題，我舉例來講……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我問你，如果製造日期是7月6號的，它需要在7月7號的時候下架嗎？"],["石部長崇良：不用、不用。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以現在就是在7月7號宣布以前20%以下的還是一樣在市面上流通，只有7月7號以後製造20%以下的才要？"],["石部長崇良：不是。"],["廖委員偉翔：不是嗎？"],["石部長崇良：不是，我們在公布的網頁上面有寫得很清楚。"],["廖委員偉翔：我問你，為什麼這個飯糰……剛剛育敏委員也有拿，我看了一下，它的製造日期是7月6號，還在架上賣耶！"],["石部長崇良：這是OK的。"],["廖委員偉翔：這是OK的？"],["石部長崇良：這個是OK的。"],["廖委員偉翔：但你剛剛又說不是，我剛剛就問你……"],["石部長崇良：沒有，我要說的不是是指我們所列出的這些飯糰，後面會講已逾有效日期，所以這個在市面上不會流通，因此沒有下架的問題。"],["廖委員偉翔：這個沒有逾有效日期啊！它是7月6號製造，有效日期到7月9號，它還在架上耶！"],["石部長崇良：不是，我們的意思是，這一批用到問題油的已經都沒有在架上了，它已經逾有效日期。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你的意思是，現在在架上的這個是沒有……"],["石部長崇良：這個還沒有逾有效日期的都是安全的。"],["廖委員偉翔：你可不可以再講清楚一下你們的標準到底是什麼？"],["石部長崇良：就是它用這個油所做出的產品，現在已經在市面上不會存在了，因為它已經下架了，已經都是賣完或已經超過有效日期。"],["廖委員偉翔：為什麼剛剛育敏委員拿的這個飯糰是7月6號製造卻還在架上？還買得到，早上才買來的。"],["姜署長至剛：報告委員，容我說明一下，原來的油所製造的即食產品都已經過期了，或者真的是我們民眾有……"],["廖委員偉翔：我就問一個簡單的問題……"],["姜署長至剛：所以現在使用在製造的油，在這些即食品上面都不是那個批次的油，所以是沒有關係的。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你確定現在在架上的沒有一個是在那個批次上的油？"],["姜署長至剛：目前我們查到的……"],["廖委員偉翔：我想要請問，民眾要如何知道它是不是？我跟你說……"],["石部長崇良：我們為什麼在發布這一些產品的時候很小心？因為……"],["廖委員偉翔：請問，對於民眾來講，他要怎麼知道你所謂的批號、批次？全臺灣這麼多的便利商店、這麼多的商家，你怎麼確保每一個都確定在你們的規範範圍內下架的呢？民眾要怎麼去查這個批號？過去有一句話，民進黨的政策裡面有說過：從源頭做起的生產履歷，資訊公開透明，可以隨時查閱。這是來自於民進黨官網的食安五環政見，可是我剛剛光問這個問題就搞得民眾「霧煞煞」，我相信在場的委員、媒體朋友也搞不清楚，這到底要怎麼確定？","我再來問，剛剛都說了，問題油四處流竄，也很難追得回來，在7月初如果先公布第二層名單，就可以讓全臺的小吃攤、餐廳、團膳廚房跟消費者立刻停用、停食，在這關鍵的3天內，有許多不知情的終端商家仍然繼續使用這批油在烹作，臺北市後來也查出高達42所學校、幼兒園曾經使用相關的油品。如果提早3天公布，這些在發育期的學童跟幼兒都可能可以停止暴露在一級致癌物中，可是第一時間你們卻選擇自我限制，要業者自主改善就好，等到輿論炸鍋你們才轉彎，讓孩童、民眾多吃了3天的致癌油。我想要請問，這個到底是誰授權的？"],["石部長崇良：沒有，跟委員說明，我們第一時間點就已經公布泰山、福懋及福壽等這些油，就是現在市面上在炸的那些油……"],["廖委員偉翔：但是你們沒有……"],["石部長崇良：那個時候就已經停用了，所以第一時間就已經停用了，我們現在第二波發布的是它的加工品，不是油，油都已經停用了。"],["廖委員偉翔：但是這些消費者、民眾也都還是暴露在這些一級致癌物的加工食品裡啊！"],["石部長崇良：這些食品都已經下來了啊！"],["廖委員偉翔：我想要請問，今天有很多……"],["石部長崇良：剛剛說的那些都已經是過期的。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，今天有很多人在討論，你當初自己也坦承說，第2層油品免下架確實有點怪怪的，所以我就是要追問，想要請問一下部長，卓院長在週一發表說：上星期就召開會議、知道進度。所以我真的很想要替你抱屈一下，我想問這個到底是卓榮泰院長拍板的嗎？你們既然跟他報告了，也告訴你的處理狀況，身為行政院最高統御指揮官，他沒有意見，所以我認為這就是他拍板的。"],["石部長崇良：沒有，因為這個，院長才有指示，雖然我們按照的是106年食品風險評估諮議會所訂出的下架原則……"],["廖委員偉翔：你都講完了，院長還同意了，代表他認同嗎？"],["石部長崇良：因為我們按照106年的原則，所以院長才會指示說，不然再召開這個專家會議，重新就這個個案來檢視下架的原則是不是要調整，所以才會有7月4號的會議。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以他有沒有同意你們後來宣布第2層油品不用下架？"],["石部長崇良：第二次是7月4號……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，因為你那個時候有跟他報告。"],["石部長崇良：7月4號的專家會議，我們之後執行就按照這個專家會議的結論。"],["廖委員偉翔：你一定是護航的，你一定是不想要說是院長通過的。"],["石部長崇良：沒有！這個程序上是這樣。"],["廖委員偉翔：我想要跟你說，我們不只要解決當下的問題，也要追究責任，最重要的，還要預防未來不可以再次發生，所以部長，危害分析重要管制點是現在食品安全監控的基石，但是過去也沒有把苯駢芘納入關鍵的控制點，未來你們對於黃豆進口要怎麼加強管制？要逐批查驗嗎？"],["石部長崇良：我們在邊境管制，當然對於進口黃豆是有在抽驗，不過因為整個黃豆的保存會受到條件的影響有所改變，所以還是要從製造端來強化，所以我們這一次也找了專家，也根據它的製程在檢討，在哪一些節點上要加強管控、抽驗。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，你們現在邊境管制的人力有多少人？足夠嗎？"],["石部長崇良：當然人力是蠻緊的啦，所以我們也是要增加。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以每次遇到食安問題都說要逐批查驗，接下來還有同樣存在高溫、煙燻、乾燥製程風險的食品，可能有可可豆、白米、煙燻肉、水產、柴魚片、植物油，你們現在是只要查黃豆嗎？還是跟致癌物有關的都要做相關盤查？如果你只查黃豆，那不就一樣是頭痛醫頭、腳痛醫腳嗎？部長，這次食安事件，因為已經擴及了不同的範圍，學校、國軍等等，所以我想要請教食安辦。請食安辦主任。"],["許主任輔：委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：在民國103年的時候，當時的餿水油風暴，時任臺南市長的賴清德總統公開主張「食安就是國安」，要求召集中央、地方政府、立法部門、行政部門，並且批評當時的執政黨說：以總統之尊，把責任推給地方。如今賴清德總統已經是總統了，這批毒油擴及的範圍已經非常地大，也流入全臺校園午餐，情勢跟影響範圍都非常嚴重，當年他要中央站出來提升到國安層級處理，我想要請問主任或者是部長，你們若可以回答都可以，總統這次什麼時候要召開國安會議？還是食安只有在野的時候才叫做國安，現在執政了就沒他的事了？"],["許主任輔：絕不是這樣，事實上……"],["廖委員偉翔：那他什麼時候要召開，你們什麼時候要召開所謂的食安及國安的國安層級處理的會議？"],["許主任輔：我們在行政院就會有跨部會的會議，不會要到總統府的國安會議。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你是打臉以前賴清德當市長的時候，他說食安即國安，所以要召開國安級的會議，你覺得不需要？"],["許主任輔：應該是委員這邊誤解，我們確實在重視食安的事情上面，是相當於全國一致優先在處理中……"],["廖委員偉翔：都是很重視嗎？你們完全失能啊！你是跨部會行政院層級的，現在這些油進去了國軍、進去了校園，你們在做什麼？為什麼？我也覺得很好奇，現在你到底在幹嘛？食安辦每一次出事好像都沒有你的事，然後都推得一乾二淨。"],["許主任輔：報告裡面是有寫到相關部會的統合，我們都有在努力啦，剛剛有講到說……"],["廖委員偉翔：有在努力，但是到底做了什麼？都流進校園了，你們的教育部長還跑去輔選，那你們到底做什麼呢？國防部呢？"],["許主任輔：所以我們要很快速地就問題釐清範圍……"],["廖委員偉翔：你有阻斷到嗎？"],["許主任輔：如果已經吃了，我們當然會有困難，我們會立刻防止有新的可能流入到哪邊去……"],["廖委員偉翔：許主任，我再問你，當時的民進黨主席前總統蔡英文也說過，餿水油並非單一事件，而是一連串問題的其中一環，政務官下臺是必然。我想要請問本案中聯油的問題，到現在為止，油品食安五環中的源頭控管，源頭出差錯，之前又有蓋牌的問題，整個食安五環系統性的崩壞，我想要請問一下食安辦，你們是什麼時候掌握這件事情？"],["許主任輔：我們這一次收通報是在7月1號。"],["廖委員偉翔：7月1號？"],["許主任輔：對，我們在報告上有提到。"],["廖委員偉翔：你們說廠商有延遲責任，讓你們延後知情、延後下架、延後公布，有沒有延遲責任？你們怎麼全部都把責任丟給廠商？我想要請問食安辦，你是行政院的層級，你認為民進黨政府這一次是哪一個單位應該負起政治責任？要怎麼負責？"],["許主任輔：我們現在一定趕快把事情處理好，您剛才有講到延遲、延誤的部分，我們已經啟動跟檢調的相關機制，已經開始啟動了。"],["廖委員偉翔：我要再問食安辦，民進黨喊了食安五環喊了十多年了，蔡英文當時也說要從源頭全面監控、追蹤有毒物質；賴清德擔任行政院長的時候也說要建立食品業者身分管理體系，做到供應鏈管理、稽查、滾動檢討，結果到了2026年，中聯油的毒油仍然從源頭混入供應鏈，導致有毒物超標油品流入下游，這算不算是源頭管理破功？"],["許主任輔：確實源頭管理我們做得還不夠好，那我也想要跟委員報告……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以是源頭管理破功？"],["許主任輔：有做起來的部分都還有在做，所以這邊肯定是在源頭管理上沒有做好。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你剛剛說確實做得不夠好嘛！你剛剛有說，對不對？"],["許主任輔：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，卓榮泰院長去年才說食安五環要有效降低臺灣系統性食品安全問題，還要加強上下游的防火牆，當時的邱泰源部長也說要推動食安五環2.0，對不對？"],["許主任輔：對，這是我們食安辦在規劃的。"],["廖委員偉翔：從農場到餐桌，每一環都要符合安全規範，結果現在下游廠商跟民眾一再受害，追溯的資訊也不透明，還要靠客戶停貨、媒體揭露才報出來，這算不算是防火牆失靈？算不算是五環2.0剛上路就破功？"],["許主任輔：我們做得確實還不夠好，我想要跟委員做一個說明，我們做食安的管理有一點像交通，我們儘量每一天盡力地把它阻攔下來……"],["廖委員偉翔：我剛剛問了，你就照我的問題回答，你剛剛說做得不夠好？"],["許主任輔：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：我剛剛說破功，你說做得不夠好。"],["許主任輔：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：你們十年前說要十倍查驗，十年後還是出現查驗的空白；十年前說全民監督，十年後是靠業者自己良心來自救。請食安辦明確回答一下，食安五環到底是政府的制度承諾，還是每次出事都拿來糊弄人民的口號？這不是跳票什麼叫做跳票？"],["許主任輔：我們在食安五環的框架下面，在各個領域都繼續地去強化、去完善，我們不能夠說……"],["廖委員偉翔：你的繼續已經讓一千多噸的有毒油流竄在市面上，所以食安辦，賴清德總統不是今天才碰到食安問題，他2018年當時行政院長主持食安會報的時候，就說政府會持續落實食安五環，要加強查驗及主動查察發現問題，還說食安首重是源頭管理，前端要做好管控，劣質或不法原料就不會流入食品供應鏈。結果今年2026了，今天中聯毒油問題不就是劣質、高風險的原料從源頭混入供應鏈嗎？這算不算是當時的行政院長賴清德當年承諾的源頭管理破功？"],["許主任輔：我們還是有在管……"],["廖委員偉翔：你沒辦法回答？因為你不敢回答。當賴清德當上總統之後，他從520就職也提出所謂的食安五環2.0政策；卓榮泰院長也說要導入AI完善食品安全防護網；邱泰源部長說食品安全是賴清德總統健康政策的重點，從農場到餐桌，每一環都符合安全規範。結果現在中聯事件爆發後，賴清德只剩下說：該停產就停產、該下架就下架，資訊公開透明，依法就責。所以我要問十年前說源頭管控，十年後還在事後下架；當院長的時候說全程監控，當總統的時候說五環2.0，結果還是毒油流入下游，這算不算跳票？五環2.0算不算破功？"],["許主任輔：食安五環就是我們在各個方向繼續把食安做好，這一次發生這個事件，趕快處理問題，限制這一些產品擴散……"],["廖委員偉翔：來，我們食安辦主任，你剛剛還是講食安五環……"],["許主任輔：希望不要再有下一次發生，您一直問是不是跳票……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你的食安承諾到底是真正能夠解決問題的制度，還是每次出現問題的時候拿來滅火的一個口號？最後我要總結一下，民進黨當年在野的時候，遇到食安問題就說食安是國安，要求中央、地方、立法、行政一起面對；蔡英文也說政務官本來就要負起行政及政治責任，下台是必然，可是今天輪到民進黨完全執政的時候，從蘇丹紅、進口蛋到現在中聯油脂1,300公噸的致癌大豆油，人民看到什麼？看到的是源頭沒有管住、查驗沒有攔下、名單不公開、下架慢半拍，行政院遭遇到這麼多起食安事件，前端預防大破功，原本至少人民還可以期待善後，擦屁股民進黨已經經驗老到，從從容容，游刃有餘，但是最後是朝令夕改，甚至三改，油品追不回，商品沒辦法下架，然後被國人痛批後才政策轉彎，毒油亂竄，院長神隱，然後有教育部長到處輔選，政府失能，罔顧食安，甩鍋地方。民進黨在野的時候是馬英九、江宜樺負責，現在中央執政了，變成蔣萬安、盧秀燕負責，難道民進黨的功能就只剩下負責叫別人負責嗎？為人民把關監督政府，這整件事情我們認為真正應該究責的是總統必須道歉，院長必須下臺負責，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝廖偉翔委員的質詢。","宣告：待會兒在蘇清泉委員質詢完畢後休息10分鐘。","現在請林月琴召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":242,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-26-18","speakers":["盧縣一","張嘉郡","王鴻薇","蘇清泉","徐巧芯","羅廷瑋","黃健豪","林沛祥","陳菁徽","邱慧洳","王育敏","林月琴","范雲","陳瑩","廖偉翔","林淑芬","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","陳昭姿","劉建國","楊瓊瓔","涂權吉","楊曜","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王正旭","陳冠廷","陳清龍","洪孟楷","徐欣瑩","林德福","傅崐萁","林倩綺","許宇甄","洪毓祥"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2026-07-08"],"gazette_id":"1156101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學\n與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查( 一) 委員廖偉翔等18 人擬具\n「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員蘇清泉等23人擬具\n「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛\n生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條\n條文修正草案」案、( 五) 委員翁曉玲等17 人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草\n案」案、(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案、\n(七)委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員黃健豪等16\n人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛\n生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案、(十)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五\n條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正\n草案」案、(十二)委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(十三)\n委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員陳超明\n等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員黃健豪等23人\n擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十\n六)委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王\n育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156101_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}