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11:27:38","會議時間":"2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員李柏毅等16人擬具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員王義川等17人擬具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員吳思瑤等17人擬具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員羅智強等17人擬具「監獄行刑法第六十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員徐欣瑩等17人擬具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員翁曉玲等24人擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員羅智強等17人擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】\n【7月8日及9日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":7.185968750000001,"end":12.434093750000002,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":12.83909375,"end":14.42534375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":15.25221875,"end":16.230968750000002,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":19.38659375,"end":20.23034375,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":20.399093750000002,"end":20.41596875,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":20.41596875,"end":20.78721875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":21.74909375,"end":26.81159375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":27.098468750000002,"end":30.22034375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":30.69284375,"end":38.60721875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":39.21471875,"end":50.52096875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":50.875343750000006,"end":73.87596875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":60.595343750000005,"end":60.679718750000006,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":74.23034375,"end":75.14159375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":76.47471875000001,"end":76.99784375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":77.77409375,"end":80.22096875000001,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":80.71034375,"end":86.92034375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":87.39284375000001,"end":89.26596875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":90.05909375,"end":91.12221875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":91.56096875,"end":94.71659375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":95.39159375000001,"end":106.57971875000001,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":107.22096875000001,"end":108.28409375000001,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":108.62159375,"end":109.65096875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":110.86596875000001,"end":112.01346875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":112.35096875,"end":114.05534375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":114.79784375000001,"end":118.64534375000001,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":118.78034375000001,"end":119.60721875,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":120.34971875000001,"end":123.43784375000001,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":123.55596875,"end":135.97596875000002,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":131.18346875,"end":133.17471875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":135.97596875000002,"end":139.04721875,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":136.54971875,"end":137.84909375,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長銘謙","start":139.04721875,"end":145.08846875,"speaker_score":0.97},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":141.30846875,"end":143.23221875000002,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":143.63721875000002,"end":144.32909375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":145.08846875,"end":149.50971875000002,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":150.25221875,"end":151.19721875000002,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":151.73721875,"end":160.00596875000002,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":161.23784375,"end":163.07721875000001,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":163.54971875,"end":165.49034375000002,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_nam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謝謝主席 楊瓊發言 邀請保護部跟衛護部好 請那個 曾部長還有衛福部的吳副司長委員好部長"},{"start":22.169,"end":41.314,"text":"近期中聯油質大豆沙漏油的這個招數檢驗出本田比超標的4倍那我們現在在非常嚴肅的一個議題1300公噸問題油品流向下游那整個國人都非常的這個關注"},{"start":43.534,"end":59.891,"text":"所以法務部你也隨即指示了責成高檢署啟動查緝民生犯罪聯繫平台檢警調一起以及食安機關全面來清查它的污染源跟流向強調的是嚴查速辦絕不寬帶"},{"start":65.396,"end":88.301,"text":"但是這個過程當中我們從四月份我們看到這個政府到底出了什麼問題從四月份開始覺得有蹊蹺但是蓋牌就蓋牌一直到下游去檢驗出來他已經超標而且第二次的檢驗更是第一次檢驗下游的人更是第一次檢驗的兩倍"},{"start":90.117,"end":109.215,"text":"然後才爆出來我們再回溯在源頭的時候他的檢驗竟然是合格那這個問題讓民眾更加的傻眼了怎麼可以如此呢食安是零容忍的政府更奇怪的說如果20%以下的餐遊他不用下架他也不要公佈"},{"start":110.919,"end":128.671,"text":"毒就是毒啊怎麼有幾%的問題呢食安是玲瓏人部長你贊成食安是玲瓏人嗎我們都是相信我們對食品安全的一些安全我想我們都是都會使用這些食用油"},{"start":131.252,"end":144.576,"text":"所以實案是零容忍的嘛,是不是?這是我們追求的目標這追求的目標,實案零容忍,我們有達成共識嘛這部分我想大家都全民都是希望死的安全所以以往來都是當發生重大問題的時候,政府就啟動專案"},{"start":150.442,"end":178.058,"text":"這第一個動作第二個就是跨機關來聯繫第三個要全面清查流程這一些的過程在以往的過程當中大家不忍心說演練的都很清楚了但是為什麼每一次都是如此呢我們要去探討啊我們既然說食安寧龍忍啊大家都全面的共識那為什麼會是如此所以在第一線的檢警調也非常辛苦耶"},{"start":179.622,"end":206.384,"text":"那但是你的決策如果沒有正確那你永遠都是一樣 下架一批然後再來怎麼樣 再報一批下架一批 再報一批這不是我們要的啊所以我具體建議也就是應該要加入企業的決策管理的責任以及通報的責任啊"},{"start":208.137,"end":221.187,"text":"你們的檢察官去檢驗 去查的時候啊都是產生問題你們去追啊對不對 辛苦的去追因為剛剛你回答了一句話你保護部是以刑事責任為基礎但是行政政策衛護部在這邊如果沒有跨部會永遠都是抓一批再報一批啊這不是我們民眾要的啊"},{"start":237.939,"end":264.212,"text":"所以我具體給你建議我不希望下架一批再爆一批這絕對不行所以我建議的就是在整個企業的決策還有它的一個通報責任跟它的管理責任你要必須提報這麼嚴重的事件要提報跨部會一起來研擬這個方案才能夠真正的有所管控啊要不然你們在第一線就這麼辛苦但是永遠"},{"start":267.645,"end":283.752,"text":"就是剛剛我說的那幾個字謝謝委員的一個詮詢是不是這部分這是衛福部看來委員所關心的都是衛福部的一個圈子那我們尊重衛福部的一些的中央以及聽清楚本席的提問你們在第一線這一定是要跨部會如果一個政府只推誰只推誰永遠就是抱一批"},{"start":290.075,"end":302.104,"text":"下架一批 再爆一批嘛不是誰請誰的問題本席要跟您說的 你在第一線非常的辛苦所以必須要橫跨機關來聯繫接下來本席跟你提問"},{"start":306.966,"end":323.688,"text":"我們伊托米子的問題伊托米子上次驗當我們現在列為第一級的毒品上次本席也跟你討論過那在這樣的情況之下伊托米子在113年8月份呢它列為第三級毒品但是只有三個月左右11月份我們列為二級毒品"},{"start":325.303,"end":342.814,"text":"113年我們全部檢驗出24件排名第4名但是114年我們增加到93件它可以說是藥生新興毒品死亡率的佔第一名尤其我們看到毒品這個電子煙彈它快速的升溫從113年"},{"start":345.994,"end":367.392,"text":"這個一萬八千六百八十七顆大幅升到一百一十四年的四萬六千四萬六百一十顆它的增幅是百分之一百一十七%所以在這樣的情況之下因為它的毒品樣態不斷的在翻新本席認為毒品的防治不能永遠是出了事才升級死的人才要列管"},{"start":368.564,"end":396.956,"text":"不能如此不能是出了事才升級死了人才裂管所以在這樣的情況之下人民的生命不能只有靠我賭一個運氣啊所以部長在新興毒品的這個預警 裂管還有跨機關的一個通報因為北市了解法務部檢警調單位在第一線是最辛苦的但是就沉入我們剛剛討論的第一個議題如果沒有橫跨"},{"start":399.538,"end":411.949,"text":"機關的一個決策聯繫那你們在第一線太辛苦了我想跟委員報告我想這個毒品這部分我們都有跨機關的一個聯繫好 謝謝你一個跨機關所以我具體跟你建議"},{"start":413.737,"end":429.883,"text":"也就是在毒品大規模的流入市場讓人民恐慌的時候我們必須要有風險評估、列管以及查紀部署這部分我跟委員報告我們台高檢署有成立一個跨機關的一個聯繫的一個平台"},{"start":430.623,"end":453.797,"text":"包括剛才委員有提到一個預警的機制因為我們有一般會發現這個毒品好像這個是沒有內管但是我們認為它有危害性這是毒品的先驅營料這一個查緝部署嗎對所以即使像委員有講一多面子這也是從我們那個辦案一直一直提出來的提出來回饋給我們好你把那個方案給本席因為我們不希望這個我們有一個運作的方式謝謝你因為"},{"start":455.558,"end":484.207,"text":"本席不希望說因為查獲的量爆死亡案件多我們才啟動這個機制所以就誠如剛剛部長所說的這個我們是屬於從案件的查緝類的我們是這樣那這另外這個屬於那個縣區員員的主管的主管機關還有其他還有那個經濟部還有環境部經濟環境部還有有些好也是橫站機關聯繫必須要非常重要最後一個議題本席給你詐欺洗錢的案件這麼多"},{"start":485.683,"end":509.241,"text":"我們看到你們人員要怎麼去盤點因為我們看到連續四年全國衣服社會勞動的案件從2021年到現在連續四年它是2025年是高達了兩萬六千多件那跟過去比較整整可以說是增加了兩倍其中詐欺跟洗錢的是最多所以在整個人力的盤點"},{"start":510.522,"end":536.005,"text":"以及專業訓練跟風險的管控這個人力的部分我們不能只有一直把他們加班加班他一定是沒有辦法負荷啊所以部長你必須要去盤點你將你的人力需求的評估怎麼樣強化專業的訓練甚至加入AI的一個方式你去盤點我們希望能夠真正發揮到這個有效的犯罪矯正的功能"},{"start":537.998,"end":559.152,"text":"謝謝委員的關心我想這個關乎卓理員這部分這個加薪啟動的全國大學我想這部分我們都很努力去做好 你去盤點然後把順便資料給本席要請的還是要人也要錢對 所以你去盤點所以這部分是不是我們就提出來就是你去盤點盤點我們再跟委員報告順便資料給本席我們一起加油謝謝好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:18:24.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:18:25.598000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:18:25.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:18:27.360000+08:00","text":"邀請法務部跟衛福部。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:18:28.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:18:32.948000+08:00","text":"請鄭部長及衛福部的吳副司長。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:18:32.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:18:33.008000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:18:33.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:18:55.413000+08:00","text":"部長，近期中聯油脂大豆沙拉油遭檢驗出苯駢芘超標4倍，這是一個非常嚴肅的議題，因為有1,300公噸的問題油品流向下游！","quality":0.694},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:18:57.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:19:16.891000+08:00","text":"國人都非常關注，法務部也隨即責成高檢署啟動民生犯罪聯繫平臺，檢警調以及食安機關一起全面清查其污染源跟流向，強調的是嚴查速辦，絕不寬貸。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:19:23.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:19:28.557000+08:00","text":"在這個過程當中，政府到底出了什麼問題？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:19:28.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:19:33.818000+08:00","text":"從4月份開始覺得有蹊蹺，但是卻蓋牌，就蓋牌！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:19:34.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:19:48.618000+08:00","text":"一直到下游檢驗出它已經超標了，而且下游的人第二次檢驗的數值更是第一次檢驗的兩倍，然後才爆出來。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:19:48.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:19:55.805000+08:00","text":"我們再回溯，發現源頭的檢驗竟然是合格的，這個問題讓民眾更加傻眼，怎麼可以如此呢？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:19:56.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:19:58.848000+08:00","text":"食安是零容忍的！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:19:59.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:20:06.195000+08:00","text":"政府更奇怪，說如果20%以下的摻油，它不用下架，它也不要公布。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:20:07.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:20:10.821000+08:00","text":"毒就是毒啊，怎麼有幾趴的問題呢？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:20:11.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:20:16.144000+08:00","text":"食安是零容忍，部長，你贊成食安是零容忍嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:20:16.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:20:25.651000+08:00","text":"我們都相信我們對食品安全的一些檢測，且我們都會使用這些食用油。是啊！","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:20:28.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:20:29.472000+08:00","text":"所以食安是零容忍的嘛！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:20:29.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:20:30.532000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:20:31.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:20:33.173000+08:00","text":"我們要確保民眾食的安全，這是我們追求的目標。","quality":0.45},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:20:33.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:20:35.754000+08:00","text":"對，追求的目標，食安零容忍，我們有達成共識嘛！","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:20:36.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:20:38.035000+08:00","text":"這部分全民都是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:20:38.035000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:20:39.035000+08:00","text":"全民共識，就是全民共識。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:20:38.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:20:39.495000+08:00","text":"全民都希望保障食的安全。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:20:39.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:20:52.825000+08:00","text":"所以以往當重大問題發生的時候，政府就啟動專案，這是第一個動作；第二個就是跨機關聯繫；第三個要全面清查流程。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:20:53.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:02.311000+08:00","text":"這一些過程，在以往的事件當中都演練得很清楚了，但是為什麼每一次都是如此呢？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:21:03.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:04.452000+08:00","text":"我們要去探討啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:21:05.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:10.715000+08:00","text":"既然說食安零容忍是大家全面的共識，為什麼這次會是如此？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:21:11.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:26.410000+08:00","text":"所以在第一線的檢警調也非常辛苦，但是你的決策如果沒有正確，你永遠都是一樣，下架一批然後再來怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:21:26.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:26.990000+08:00","text":"再爆一批！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:21:28.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:32.015000+08:00","text":"下架一批、再爆一批，這不是我們要的啊！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:21:33.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:43.184000+08:00","text":"所以我具體建議，也就是應該要加入企業的決策、管理的責任以及通報的責任。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:21:45.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:51.041000+08:00","text":"你們的檢察官去查的時候，都是產生問題，你們再去追，對不對？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:21:51.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:51.382000+08:00","text":"辛苦地去追。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:21:51.382000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:52.382000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，就是因為有犯罪，如果不是涉及到刑事不法，當然我們檢察官就……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:21:51.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:53.944000+08:00","text":"因為剛剛你回答了一句話，法務部是以刑事責任為基礎。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:21:53.944000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:54.944000+08:00","text":"對，我們是追究刑事責任……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:21:53.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:55.225000+08:00","text":"但是行政政策，衛福部在這邊……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:21:55.225000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:56.225000+08:00","text":"政府機關有不同的權責……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:21:55.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:21:58.167000+08:00","text":"如果沒有跨部會機制，永遠都是抓一批、再爆一批啊，這不是民眾要的啊！","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:22:14.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:22:20.742000+08:00","text":"所以我具體給你建議，我不希望下架一批、再爆一批，這絕對不行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:22:21.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:22:38.510000+08:00","text":"所以我建議的就是加入整個企業的決策，還有他的通報責任跟管理責任，你必須要提報，這麼嚴重的事件，要提報跨部會一起來研擬這個方案，才能夠真正有所管控。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:22:39.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:22:45.966000+08:00","text":"要不然你們在第一線這麼辛苦，但是永遠就是剛剛我說的那幾個字。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:22:46.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:22:48.807000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的垂詢。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:22:49.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:22:56.770000+08:00","text":"這部分是不是衛福部……剛才委員所關心的都是衛福部的權責，我們尊重衛福部中央以及地方……","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:22:56.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:22:59.031000+08:00","text":"聽清楚本席的提問，你們在第一線，這一定是要跨部會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:22:59.031000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:23:00.031000+08:00","text":"我們檢察官只能去處理……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:22:59.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:23:09.277000+08:00","text":"如果一個政府只會推給誰、推給誰，永遠就是爆一批、下架一批、再爆一批嘛！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:23:09.277000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:23:10.708000+08:00","text":"這個是不是請衛福部來回答？","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:23:10.708000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:23:12.139000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:23:12.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:23:18.384000+08:00","text":"不是請誰回答的問題，本席要跟你說的是，第一線的人員非常辛苦，所以必須跨機關聯繫……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:23:18.384000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:23:19.384000+08:00","text":"我想這個大概大家都要合作……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:23:18.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:23:24.967000+08:00","text":"接下來本席向你提問有關依托咪酯的問題。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:23:26.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:23:31.616000+08:00","text":"依托咪酯（喪屍煙彈）我們現在列為第一級的毒品，上次本席也跟你討論過。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:23:31.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:23:40.668000+08:00","text":"在這樣的情況之下，依托咪酯在113年8月份被列為第三級毒品，但是只有3個月左右，11月份我們再列為二級毒品。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:23:42.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:23:52.789000+08:00","text":"113年全部檢驗出24件，排名第4名，但是114年增加到93件，它可以說是躍升新興毒品死亡率的第1名。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:23:53.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:24:12.381000+08:00","text":"尤其我們看到毒品喪屍煙彈快速升溫，從113年1萬8,687顆，大幅升到114年的4萬610顆，增幅是117%。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:24:13.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:24:26.104000+08:00","text":"在這樣情況之下，因為毒品的樣態不斷在翻新，本席認為毒品的防制不能永遠是出了事才升級，死了人才要列管，不能如此！","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:24:27.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:24:31.226000+08:00","text":"不能出了事才升級，死了人才列管！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:24:32.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:24:44.492000+08:00","text":"在這樣情況之下，人民的生命不能只靠我賭一個運氣，所以部長，有關新興毒品預警、列管，還有跨機關的通報很重要。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:24:44.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:25:00.962000+08:00","text":"就本席了解，法務部、檢警調單位在第一線是最辛苦的，但是誠如我們剛剛討論第一個議題，如果沒有跨機關的決策、聯繫，你們在第一線太辛苦了。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:25:01.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:25:05.606000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我想毒品這部分我們都有跨機關的聯繫，這個有，這個都有……","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:25:05.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:25:19.840000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝你的跨機關聯繫，所以我具體跟你建議，也就是在毒品大規模流入市場讓人民恐慌的時候，我們必須要有風險評估、列管以及查緝部署。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:25:20.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:25:37.549000+08:00","text":"這部分我跟委員報告，臺高檢署有成立一個跨機關的聯繫平台，包括剛才委員提到的預警機制在內，因為我們辦案會發現這個毒品好像沒有列管，但是我們認為它有危害性，這是毒品的先驅原料……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:25:38.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:25:39.170000+08:00","text":"就是要查緝部署、預警嘛！","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:25:39.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:25:46.735000+08:00","text":"對，所以其實像委員講的依托咪酯，這一次是從辦案的過程一直、一直提出來回饋給我們……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:25:46.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:25:48.936000+08:00","text":"好，你把那個方案給本席，因為我們不希望……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:25:49.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:25:50.617000+08:00","text":"這個我們有一個運作的方式，的確是有。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:25:50.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:25:59.120000+08:00","text":"謝謝你，本席不希望因為查獲的量爆及死亡案件多，我們才啟動這個機制。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:25:59.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:26:00.961000+08:00","text":"所以就誠如剛剛部長所說的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:26:01.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:26:04.482000+08:00","text":"這個是我們從案件的查緝類查出的，我們是這樣。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:26:05.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:26:15.685000+08:00","text":"另外屬於先驅原料的主管機關，其他還有經濟部、環境部，還有有些……","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:26:15.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:26:18.086000+08:00","text":"好，也就是橫向機關聯繫必須非常重要。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:26:18.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:26:25.785000+08:00","text":"最後一個議題是有關詐欺洗錢的案件這麼多，請問你們的人員要怎麼去盤點？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:26:25.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:26:41.017000+08:00","text":"因為我們看到連續4年全國易服社會勞動的案件，從2021年到現在連續4年，2025年高達兩萬六千多件，跟過去比較整整可以說是增加了兩倍。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:26:41.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:26:49.844000+08:00","text":"其中詐欺跟洗錢的最多，所以在整個人力的盤點以及專業訓練跟風險的管控很重要。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:26:51.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:26:56.951000+08:00","text":"對於人力的部分，我們不能只有一直讓他們加班、加班，他一定沒有辦法負荷！","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:26:57.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:12.985000+08:00","text":"所以部長，你必須要去盤點，你針對你的人力需求評估及怎麼樣強化專業的訓練，甚至可以加入AI的方式，我們希望能夠真正發揮到有效的犯罪矯正功能。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:27:12.985000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:14.998000+08:00","text":"請你去盤點，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:27:14.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:23.504000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的關心，我想有關觀護佐理員加薪啟動，這部分我們都很努力去做……","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:27:23.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:25.705000+08:00","text":"好，你去盤點，然後把書面資料給本席。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:27:26.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:28.267000+08:00","text":"但還是要人，也要錢。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:27:28.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:29.207000+08:00","text":"對，所以你去盤點。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:27:29.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:31.449000+08:00","text":"所以這部分是不是我們提出來就是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:27:31.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:32.810000+08:00","text":"好，你去盤點……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:27:32.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:33.370000+08:00","text":"盤點完再跟委員報告。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T11:27:34.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:36.132000+08:00","text":"對，書面資料給本席，我們一起加油，謝謝。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-08T11:27:36.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:36.152000+08:00","text":"謝謝、謝謝。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:27:36.652000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:38.937714+08:00","text":"謝謝楊委員的發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:27:39.237714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:44.952000+08:00","text":"接下來鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員，鄭天財委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:27:45.252000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:50.109143+08:00","text":"蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:27:50.409143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:27:53.837714+08:00","text":"接下來有請洪孟楷委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":687,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時18分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言。邀請法務部跟衛福部。"],["主席：請鄭部長及衛福部的吳副司長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，近期中聯油脂大豆沙拉油遭檢驗出苯駢芘超標4倍，這是一個非常嚴肅的議題，因為有1,300公噸的問題油品流向下游！國人都非常關注，法務部也隨即責成高檢署啟動民生犯罪聯繫平臺，檢警調以及食安機關一起全面清查其污染源跟流向，強調的是嚴查速辦，絕不寬貸。在這個過程當中，政府到底出了什麼問題？從4月份開始覺得有蹊蹺，但是卻蓋牌，就蓋牌！一直到下游檢驗出它已經超標了，而且下游的人第二次檢驗的數值更是第一次檢驗的兩倍，然後才爆出來。我們再回溯，發現源頭的檢驗竟然是合格的，這個問題讓民眾更加傻眼，怎麼可以如此呢？食安是零容忍的！政府更奇怪，說如果20%以下的摻油，它不用下架，它也不要公布。毒就是毒啊，怎麼有幾趴的問題呢？食安是零容忍，部長，你贊成食安是零容忍嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們都相信我們對食品安全的一些檢測，且我們都會使用這些食用油。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是啊！所以食安是零容忍的嘛！是不是？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們要確保民眾食的安全，這是我們追求的目標。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，追求的目標，食安零容忍，我們有達成共識嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分全民都是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：全民共識，就是全民共識。"],["鄭部長銘謙：全民都希望保障食的安全。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以以往當重大問題發生的時候，政府就啟動專案，這是第一個動作；第二個就是跨機關聯繫；第三個要全面清查流程。這一些過程，在以往的事件當中都演練得很清楚了，但是為什麼每一次都是如此呢？我們要去探討啊！既然說食安零容忍是大家全面的共識，為什麼這次會是如此？所以在第一線的檢警調也非常辛苦，但是你的決策如果沒有正確，你永遠都是一樣，下架一批然後再來怎麼樣？再爆一批！下架一批、再爆一批，這不是我們要的啊！所以我具體建議，也就是應該要加入企業的決策、管理的責任以及通報的責任。你們的檢察官去查的時候，都是產生問題，你們再去追，對不對？辛苦地去追。"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，就是因為有犯罪，如果不是涉及到刑事不法，當然我們檢察官就……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為剛剛你回答了一句話，法務部是以刑事責任為基礎。"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，我們是追究刑事責任……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但是行政政策，衛福部在這邊……"],["鄭部長銘謙：政府機關有不同的權責……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：如果沒有跨部會機制，永遠都是抓一批、再爆一批啊，這不是民眾要的啊！所以我具體給你建議，我不希望下架一批、再爆一批，這絕對不行。所以我建議的就是加入整個企業的決策，還有他的通報責任跟管理責任，你必須要提報，這麼嚴重的事件，要提報跨部會一起來研擬這個方案，才能夠真正有所管控。要不然你們在第一線這麼辛苦，但是永遠就是剛剛我說的那幾個字。"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝委員的垂詢。這部分是不是衛福部……剛才委員所關心的都是衛福部的權責，我們尊重衛福部中央以及地方……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：聽清楚本席的提問，你們在第一線，這一定是要跨部會。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們檢察官只能去處理……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：如果一個政府只會推給誰、推給誰，永遠就是爆一批、下架一批、再爆一批嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是不是請衛福部來回答？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對不對？不是請誰回答的問題，本席要跟你說的是，第一線的人員非常辛苦，所以必須跨機關聯繫……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想這個大概大家都要合作……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席向你提問有關依托咪酯的問題。依托咪酯（喪屍煙彈）我們現在列為第一級的毒品，上次本席也跟你討論過。在這樣的情況之下，依托咪酯在113年8月份被列為第三級毒品，但是只有3個月左右，11月份我們再列為二級毒品。113年全部檢驗出24件，排名第4名，但是114年增加到93件，它可以說是躍升新興毒品死亡率的第1名。尤其我們看到毒品喪屍煙彈快速升溫，從113年1萬8,687顆，大幅升到114年的4萬610顆，增幅是117%。在這樣情況之下，因為毒品的樣態不斷在翻新，本席認為毒品的防制不能永遠是出了事才升級，死了人才要列管，不能如此！不能出了事才升級，死了人才列管！在這樣情況之下，人民的生命不能只靠我賭一個運氣，所以部長，有關新興毒品預警、列管，還有跨機關的通報很重要。就本席了解，法務部、檢警調單位在第一線是最辛苦的，但是誠如我們剛剛討論第一個議題，如果沒有跨機關的決策、聯繫，你們在第一線太辛苦了。"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，我想毒品這部分我們都有跨機關的聯繫，這個有，這個都有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝你的跨機關聯繫，所以我具體跟你建議，也就是在毒品大規模流入市場讓人民恐慌的時候，我們必須要有風險評估、列管以及查緝部署。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我跟委員報告，臺高檢署有成立一個跨機關的聯繫平台，包括剛才委員提到的預警機制在內，因為我們辦案會發現這個毒品好像沒有列管，但是我們認為它有危害性，這是毒品的先驅原料……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是要查緝部署、預警嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，所以其實像委員講的依托咪酯，這一次是從辦案的過程一直、一直提出來回饋給我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，你把那個方案給本席，因為我們不希望……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我們有一個運作的方式，的確是有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝你，本席不希望因為查獲的量爆及死亡案件多，我們才啟動這個機制。所以就誠如剛剛部長所說的……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是我們從案件的查緝類查出的，我們是這樣。另外屬於先驅原料的主管機關，其他還有經濟部、環境部，還有有些……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，也就是橫向機關聯繫必須非常重要。","最後一個議題是有關詐欺洗錢的案件這麼多，請問你們的人員要怎麼去盤點？因為我們看到連續4年全國易服社會勞動的案件，從2021年到現在連續4年，2025年高達兩萬六千多件，跟過去比較整整可以說是增加了兩倍。其中詐欺跟洗錢的最多，所以在整個人力的盤點以及專業訓練跟風險的管控很重要。對於人力的部分，我們不能只有一直讓他們加班、加班，他一定沒有辦法負荷！所以部長，你必須要去盤點，你針對你的人力需求評估及怎麼樣強化專業的訓練，甚至可以加入AI的方式，我們希望能夠真正發揮到有效的犯罪矯正功能。請你去盤點，好不好？"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝委員的關心，我想有關觀護佐理員加薪啟動，這部分我們都很努力去做……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，你去盤點，然後把書面資料給本席。"],["鄭部長銘謙：但還是要人，也要錢。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，所以你去盤點。"],["鄭部長銘謙：所以這部分是不是我們提出來就是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，你去盤點……"],["鄭部長銘謙：盤點完再跟委員報告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，書面資料給本席，我們一起加油，謝謝。"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝、謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楊委員的發言。","接下來鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員，鄭天財委員不在。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉委員不在。","接下來有請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":316,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-36-24","speakers":["翁曉玲","陳昭姿","張雅琳","林倩綺","沈發惠","范雲","許宇甄","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","莊瑞雄","林沛祥","吳宗憲","蔡其昌","邱鎮軍","傅崐萁"],"page_start":255,"meetingDate":["2026-07-08"],"gazette_id":"1155901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查（一）行政院函請審議「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」\n案、（二）委員李柏毅等16人擬具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條條文修正草案」案、（三）委員\n王義川等17人擬具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」案、（四）委\n員吳思瑤等17人擬具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」案、（五）\n委員羅智強等17人擬具「監獄行刑法第六十三條條文修正草案」案、（六）委員徐欣瑩等17人擬\n具「監獄行刑法第一百四十八條及第一百五十六條條文修正草案」案、（七）委員翁曉玲等24人\n擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文修正草案」案、（八）委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文\n修正草案」案、（九）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文修正草案」案、（十）委員\n羅智強等17人擬具「監獄行刑法部分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155901_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}