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在談委員先進列協政府經濟事務長官員會長 公眾夥伴媒體記者女士先生首先我們請財政部莊部長還有負稅署的宋署長後半段呢 要請台灣煙酒公司的湯董事長那另外也要請 請部長 請湯董還有彭金榮 彭主委也要跟您請教一下我們TISA的事情 好 彭主委"},{"start":31.708,"end":50.257,"text":"好部長好我們請教一下我在2025年那時候呢跟今年年初兩次提到就是勞退的舊字可不可以銜接新字就沒想到呢就在我們今年四月的時候有六位委員七位委員發出呼求之後呢終於勞動部同意了他說關於上一頁"},{"start":55.288,"end":69.299,"text":"開放純就職勞工得提前結算就職年資將退休金一次匯入勞退薪資的個人專戶確保不影響原僱主跟其他勞工的權益之下保障就職勞工的權益部長我們勞動部所屬的銀行有沒有屬於就職勞工"},{"start":73.032,"end":102.732,"text":"不是啊財政部所屬的銀行有沒有救治勞工有沒有救治勞工應該有啦國營事業都有啊中澳台電油水都很多啊國營事業的勞工他們都那你支持這樣一個方案嗎下一頁就是來上一頁只要對我們對勞工朋友有利而且也已經經過勞動部的評估我想當然是支持啊那你知道這個方案的精神嗎因為我們應該部長都是屬於類似公保的"},{"start":103.633,"end":107.681,"text":"我是宮保市長那你知道他的差別在哪裡嗎我簡單講很快的講就是"},{"start":110.563,"end":139.429,"text":"原來國營事業當中或者說就職勞工他只要成就了退休條件他的基數可能領到滿他已經年滿可以退休年齡了這時候雇主要讓他就職的一次退休金放到台銀的帳戶放到台銀帳戶之後會升利息但是勞工他那時候開始他的年資他的退休金不會再增加了到他退休前他那段工作時間他的定額的退休金漲的利息不是他的"},{"start":140.307,"end":155.099,"text":"是雇主的那對雇主來講勞工雖然還沒退休要給他的退休金已經提前放到台穎的帳戶裡面了他也不能拿去做運用也不能去買積富通也不能買TISA也不能買所有的這些基金好那現在我們讓他有這個機會"},{"start":157.581,"end":178.92,"text":"他如果說已經55歲他已經可以退休年齡了他也退休基數也滿了這時候這筆錢呢在他65歲退休之前他可以拿出來放到新制退休金的帳戶你知道目前新制的勞退啊經營的績效如何我看報紙說去年上半年我們又平均每戶增加11萬多嘛來請下下彭主委"},{"start":182.352,"end":208.019,"text":"我們要考一下彭主委他對於這個基金的經營來我們看一下來往下看這些員工就職勞工的都可以那請問目前我們的新制的勞退金的經營績效跟目前我們金管會在推的TISA績效相比怎麼樣我想我沒有確切數據不過吉寶他們回報的話我們現在從因為去年是超過那個"},{"start":209.299,"end":235.962,"text":"勞退新制的經營情況嗎因為他們的那個投資的基礎不一樣啦據我所知從去年七月開始到現在基金的報酬在TESA那幾檔基金報酬都不錯對不錯來部長來那簡單講齁就是你同意吧因為你們是雇主啊要勞雇雙方同意才能推欸你們同不同意如果公股行庫所屬的勞退純休制勞工有意願提前結算你同不同意"},{"start":237.202,"end":263.731,"text":"這個新的制度當然是要應該依照制度來做那我是建議你們也因為國營這個我們這個金融機構的員工比較靈活他如果發現金管櫃的那個部分那個TISA好像獲利比較多你可不可以讓他們提到TISA去雖然我知道你們是定期訂額那如果經營效不錯可不可以代薪投靠到那裡去這個要看個人的意願吧主委您會不會去爭取"},{"start":265.782,"end":278.943,"text":"我想這是兩套不一樣的制度啦一個是真的就是一個正式退休制度一個是民眾自選的一個投資方案好 謝謝主委我現在再給我兩分鐘再問一下我們今天要請教部長"},{"start":280.404,"end":297.159,"text":"本席我們在去年開始兩次的院會跟記者會兩次記者會我們發現中國的鋼品跟啤酒傾銷當時候經濟部判斷有初步損害後來的反傾銷我們通過了我們看一下成果怎麼樣進口啤酒從2023年它超過了國產啤酒"},{"start":301.738,"end":327.552,"text":"那國產啤酒呢,這幾年持續下滑,終於在我們反傾銷確認之後呢,拉回來了部長,我要跟你肯定啊,因為這個反傾銷的部分呢,這是得來不易部長,是不是覺得反傾銷還是有用的?呃,當然是的好,但是呢,傾銷的酒的問題呢,還有很多喔,我們往下看喔部長,我在猜你大概沒有喝過Whisky啦,或保麗達啦它叫做藥酒,請問你認為藥酒是藥還是酒?"},{"start":329.113,"end":354.802,"text":"來 我請董事長回答一下藥酒是藥還是酒謝謝委員我想這個應該是法律身份的不同藥酒應該屬於在藥事管理法裡面對 那我們的酒是屬於在菸酒管理法裡面我不知道委員是要問哪一個部分董事長能夠清楚的說出威士忌跟保麗塔是藥酒是屬於藥品不是酒所以你們公司不賣來 部長請來 部長"},{"start":357.611,"end":366.163,"text":"但是呢 這兩者的稅啊 菸酒就有稅 稅裡面呢 菸酒稅還有飲用酒跟料理酒 你知道這個稅的差別吧"},{"start":367.123,"end":391.676,"text":"是的 是的好 那往下看目前我們的釀酵酒啤酒是每公升26塊錢其他釀酵酒每公升每度收7塊錢像清酒跟紅酒如果是蒸餾酒是每公升每度2.5元如果是再制酒像人家調製的酒超過28的部分每公升每度加185元但是如果20%以下每度每公升只有7塊錢部長妳有沒有喝過再制酒"},{"start":393.302,"end":393.662,"text":"請檢答我們盡速回應請問部長這個酒為什麼稅這麼複雜"},{"start":409.309,"end":429.844,"text":"蒸餾酒 啤酒 釀造酒 再制酒 為什麼稅都不同什麼原因我們一開始的時候有跟酒精濃度會有關係酒精濃度為什麼 酒精濃度跟稅有關那也有WTO的相關的規範來 我給你一個建議 因為主席站起來了在去年我們在推無糖飲品免貨物稅財政部支持嘛"},{"start":430.904,"end":453.4,"text":"國人的反應很好,因為外國是喝糖稅,喝加糖的料另外付稅,我們是喝不加糖的不用稅,我覺得這個方向國人是接受,但是我們看糖有健康風險,但是飲用酒的類別濃度跟製程對身體有不同健康的影響,像韓國的燒酒,我剛從韓國回來,以前日本的清酒的三倍增是加水稀釋的,"},{"start":453.92,"end":468.74,"text":"所以這些像日本的燒酒或韓國燒酒過去他們普遍的認為對健康的風險較高是不是可以請未來財政部針對飲用酒的類別濃度跟製程做不同國民健康風險的評估可不可以"},{"start":469.882,"end":498.843,"text":"有關國民健康風險的評估可能我們要跟衛福部做討論很好 所以我做結論主席站起來所以我希望未來呢我們酒稅可以考慮一下貨物稅考慮國人的健康為添加糖類的飲品免貨物稅但是除了考量酒精濃度之外我們希望對於各種各種酒精濃度較低的再製酒他們對於健康的風險飲用有沒有危害也應該納入未來我們稅市的一個制定的標準去參考好不好"},{"start":499.463,"end":500.425,"text":"我們來做研議看看謝謝謝謝中央加B委員接下來請楊瓊英委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:33:20.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:33:24.493000+08:00","text":"主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府機關首長、官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士、先生。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:33:25.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:33:36.037000+08:00","text":"首先請財政部莊部長，還有賦稅署宋署長，後半段要請臺灣菸酒公司湯董事長，另外也要請……","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:33:36.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:33:37.078000+08:00","text":"請部長，請湯董。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:33:37.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:33:42.660000+08:00","text":"還有也要跟彭金隆主委請教一下TISA的事情。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:33:43.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:33:44.001000+08:00","text":"彭主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-08T11:33:45.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:33:45.708000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:33:46.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:33:46.609000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:33:47.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:34:18.996000+08:00","text":"請教一下，我在2025年跟今年年初兩次提到勞退舊制可不可以銜接新制，結果沒想到就在今年4月有7位委員發出呼籲之後，勞動部終於同意了，開放純舊制勞工得提前結算舊制年資，將退休金一次匯入勞退新制個人專戶，在確保不影響原雇主跟其他勞工的權益之下，保障舊制勞工的權益。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:34:19.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:34:33.196000+08:00","text":"部長，財政部所屬的銀行有沒有屬於舊制的勞工？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-08T11:34:33.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:34:33.837000+08:00","text":"應該有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:34:35.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:34:36.158000+08:00","text":"有，國營事業都有。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-08T11:34:36.158000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:34:38.300000+08:00","text":"對，應該會有，當然都會有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:34:38.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:34:43.423000+08:00","text":"電油糖水都很多，國營事業的勞工很多都是，你支持這樣的方案嗎？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-08T11:34:44.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:34:52.209000+08:00","text":"只要對勞工朋友有利，而且也已經經過勞動部評估，當然是支持。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:34:52.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:34:54.190000+08:00","text":"您知道這個方案的精神嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:34:55.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:34:56.712000+08:00","text":"部長應該屬於公保的。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-08T11:34:57.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:34:58.094000+08:00","text":"我是公保的。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:34:59.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:35:00.859000+08:00","text":"你知道它的差別在哪裡嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:35:00.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:35:34.787000+08:00","text":"我簡單講，很快的講，就是原來國營事業當中的舊制勞工，只要成就了退休條件，他的基數可能領到滿，他已經年滿可以退休的年齡了，這時候雇主要把他舊制的一次退休金放到臺銀帳戶，放到臺銀帳戶之後會生利息，但是勞工那時候開始退休金不會再增加了，到他退休前的那段工作時間，他的定額退休金所生的利息不是他的，是雇主的。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:35:35.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:35:47.297000+08:00","text":"對雇主來講，勞工雖然還沒退休，要給他的退休金已經提前放到臺銀帳戶裡面了，不能拿去運用，也不能去買基富通，也不能買TISA，也不能買所有的基金。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:35:48.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:36:04.753000+08:00","text":"現在我們讓他有這個機會，如果他已經55歲、已經達到可以退休的年齡了，他的退休基數也滿了，這時候這筆錢在他65歲退休之前，可以拿出來放到新制退休金帳戶。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:36:04.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:36:07.375000+08:00","text":"你知道目前新制勞退的經營績效如何嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:36:07.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:36:12.520000+08:00","text":"我看報紙說，去年上半年平均每戶增加十一萬多。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:36:12.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:36:19.913000+08:00","text":"請教一下彭主委，我要考一下彭主委，關於基金的經營。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:36:21.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:36:36.477000+08:00","text":"這些勞工都可以，請問目前新制勞退金的經營績效跟目前金管會在推的TISA績效相比怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T11:36:36.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:36:40.518000+08:00","text":"我沒有確切的數據，不過根據集保回報，因為去年……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:36:41.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:36:46.322000+08:00","text":"超過勞退新制的經營情況嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T11:36:46.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:36:48.964000+08:00","text":"因為他們投資的基礎不一樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T11:36:49.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:36:55.870000+08:00","text":"據我所知，從去年7月開始到現在，TISA那幾檔基金的報酬都不錯。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:36:55.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:36:58.912000+08:00","text":"部長，簡單講，就是你同意吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:36:59.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:37:03.356000+08:00","text":"因為你們是雇主，要勞雇雙方同意才能推，你們同不同意？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:37:03.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:37:09.942000+08:00","text":"如果公股行庫所屬的勞退純舊制勞工有意願提前結存退休金，你同不同意？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-08T11:37:11.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:37:14.423000+08:00","text":"有新的制度當然應該要依照制度來做。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:37:16.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:37:27.788000+08:00","text":"因為金融機構的員工比較靈活，他如果發現金管會的TISA好像獲利比較多，您可不可以讓他們提到TISA？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:37:28.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:37:32.330000+08:00","text":"雖然我知道你們是定期定額，如果經營績效不錯，可不可以帶槍投靠到那裡？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-08T11:37:34.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:37:35.471000+08:00","text":"這個要看個人的意願吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:37:37.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:37:37.711000+08:00","text":"主委，你會不會去爭取？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T11:37:39.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:37:47.154000+08:00","text":"我想這是兩套不一樣的制度，一個真的就是正式退休制度，另一個是民眾自選的投資方案。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:37:49.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:37:49.618000+08:00","text":"謝謝主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:37:50.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:38:07.696000+08:00","text":"再給我兩分鐘問一下，接下來請教部長，本席在去年的院會跟兩次記者會指出，我們發現中國的鋼品跟啤酒傾銷，當時經濟部判斷有初步損害，後來通過了反傾銷。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:38:08.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:38:09.938000+08:00","text":"我們看一下成果怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:38:09.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:38:21.561000+08:00","text":"進口啤酒的市占率從2023年超過了國產啤酒，而國產啤酒銷量這幾年持續下滑，終於在確認反傾銷之後拉回來了。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:38:22.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:38:29.085000+08:00","text":"部長，我要肯定你，因為反傾銷得來不易，部長是不是覺得反傾銷還是有用的？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-08T11:38:30.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:38:30.506000+08:00","text":"當然是的，為了國內的產業。","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:38:31.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:38:41.532000+08:00","text":"但是接下來酒的問題還很多，我猜部長大概沒有喝過維士比或保力達，它叫做藥酒，請問你認為藥酒是藥還是酒？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:38:43.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:38:45.754000+08:00","text":"請董事長回答一下，藥酒是藥還是酒？","quality":1},{"speaker":"湯董事長期安","start":"2026-07-08T11:38:47.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:38:48.335000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"湯董事長期安","start":"2026-07-08T11:38:49.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:39:00.679000+08:00","text":"這個應該是法律身分的不同，藥酒應該屬於在藥事管理法裡面，我們的酒屬於在菸酒管理法裡面，我不知道委員是要問哪一個部分。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:39:00.679000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:39:01.679000+08:00","text":"好，了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:39:01.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:39:08.762000+08:00","text":"董事長能夠清楚說出維士比跟保力達是藥酒，屬於藥品，不是酒，所以你們公司不賣。對。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:39:08.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:39:21.263000+08:00","text":"請問部長，菸酒就有稅，菸酒稅還有分飲用酒跟料理酒，你知道這兩者稅的差別吧？是的。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:39:22.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:39:30.348000+08:00","text":"目前釀造酒的稅，啤酒是每公升26塊錢；其他釀造酒每公升每度收7塊錢，像清酒跟紅酒。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:39:31.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:39:33.069000+08:00","text":"如果是蒸餾酒每公升每度2.5元。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:39:33.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:39:44.555000+08:00","text":"如果是再製酒，像人家調製的酒，超過20%的部分，每公升每度加185元；如果20%以下，每度每公升只有7塊錢。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:39:44.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:39:45.356000+08:00","text":"部長有沒有喝過再製酒？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-08T11:39:45.356000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:39:47.302000+08:00","text":"什麼叫再製酒？","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:39:47.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:39:47.522000+08:00","text":"請簡答，儘速回應。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:39:47.522000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:39:48.522000+08:00","text":"現在年輕人很多不是喝啤酒，都喝像雞尾酒的調酒，大概只有4%而已，他就在規避這個。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:39:47.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:39:47.662000+08:00","text":"請問部長，酒為什麼稅這麼複雜？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:40:03.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:40:06.972000+08:00","text":"蒸餾酒、啤酒、釀造酒、再製酒為什麼稅都不同？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:40:07.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:40:08.132000+08:00","text":"什麼原因？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-08T11:40:08.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:40:11.855000+08:00","text":"一開始的時候，跟酒精濃度會有關係……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:40:12.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:40:14.657000+08:00","text":"為什麼酒精濃度跟稅有關？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-08T11:40:14.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:40:17.079000+08:00","text":"啤酒比較高，也有WTO相關的規範。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:40:17.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:40:18.820000+08:00","text":"來，我給你一個建議，因為主席站起來了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:40:19.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:40:23.824000+08:00","text":"去年我們在推無糖飲品免貨物稅，財政部支持嘛！是的。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:40:24.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:40:33.951000+08:00","text":"國人的反應很好，因為外國是課糖稅，喝加糖的要另外付稅，我們是喝不加糖的不用稅，我覺得這個方向國人是接受。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:40:34.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:40:44.258000+08:00","text":"我們看到糖有健康風險，但是飲用酒的類別、濃度跟製程對身體有不同健康的影響，像韓國燒酒，我剛從韓國回來……","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:40:44.258000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:40:45.258000+08:00","text":"請鍾委員儘快做結論，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:40:44.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:41:02.720000+08:00","text":"以前日本的三倍增清酒是加水稀釋的，像日本燒酎或韓國燒酒，過去他們普遍認為對健康的風險較高，未來是不是可以請財政部針對飲用酒的類別、濃度跟製程做不同國民健康風險的評估，可不可以？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-08T11:41:03.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:41:07.245000+08:00","text":"有關國民健康風險的評估，可能我們要跟衛福部做討論，好不好？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:41:07.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:41:10.007000+08:00","text":"很好，我做結論了，主席站起來了。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:41:10.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:41:32.823000+08:00","text":"所以我希望未來酒稅可以考慮像貨物稅一樣，考慮國人的健康，未添加糖類的飲品免貨物稅，但是除了考量酒精濃度之外，我們希望對於各種酒精濃度較低的再製酒，它們對於健康風險飲用有沒有危害，也應該納入未來我們稅制制定的標準去參考，好不好？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-08T11:41:33.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:41:33.744000+08:00","text":"我們來研議看看，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:41:33.744000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:41:34.744000+08:00","text":"湯董事長，支持嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"湯董事長期安","start":"2026-07-08T11:41:33.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:41:33.744000+08:00","text":"支持，謝謝委員。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:41:33.744000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:41:34.744000+08:00","text":"應該支持啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:41:34.744000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:41:35.744000+08:00","text":"後續做研議，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-07-08T11:41:35.744000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:41:36.744000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:41:36.744000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T11:41:37.744000+08:00","text":"謝謝鍾佳濱委員。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T11:41:34.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T11:41:34.425000+08:00","text":"接下來請楊瓊瓔委員。","quality":0.889}]},"gazette":{"lineno":986,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（11時33分）主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府機關首長、官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士、先生。首先請財政部莊部長，還有賦稅署宋署長，後半段要請臺灣菸酒公司湯董事長，另外也要請……"],["主席：請部長，請湯董。"],["鍾委員佳濱：還有也要跟彭金隆主委請教一下TISA的事情。"],["主席：彭主委。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好。請教一下，我在2025年跟今年年初兩次提到勞退舊制可不可以銜接新制，結果沒想到就在今年4月有7位委員發出呼籲之後，勞動部終於同意了，開放純舊制勞工得提前結算舊制年資，將退休金一次匯入勞退新制個人專戶，在確保不影響原雇主跟其他勞工的權益之下，保障舊制勞工的權益。部長，財政部所屬的銀行有沒有屬於舊制的勞工？"],["莊部長翠雲：應該有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有，國營事業都有。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，應該會有，當然都會有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：電油糖水都很多，國營事業的勞工很多都是，你支持這樣的方案嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：只要對勞工朋友有利，而且也已經經過勞動部評估，當然是支持。"],["鍾委員佳濱：您知道這個方案的精神嗎？部長應該屬於公保的。"],["莊部長翠雲：我是公保的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你知道它的差別在哪裡嗎？我簡單講，很快的講，就是原來國營事業當中的舊制勞工，只要成就了退休條件，他的基數可能領到滿，他已經年滿可以退休的年齡了，這時候雇主要把他舊制的一次退休金放到臺銀帳戶，放到臺銀帳戶之後會生利息，但是勞工那時候開始退休金不會再增加了，到他退休前的那段工作時間，他的定額退休金所生的利息不是他的，是雇主的。對雇主來講，勞工雖然還沒退休，要給他的退休金已經提前放到臺銀帳戶裡面了，不能拿去運用，也不能去買基富通，也不能買TISA，也不能買所有的基金。現在我們讓他有這個機會，如果他已經55歲、已經達到可以退休的年齡了，他的退休基數也滿了，這時候這筆錢在他65歲退休之前，可以拿出來放到新制退休金帳戶。你知道目前新制勞退的經營績效如何嗎？我看報紙說，去年上半年平均每戶增加十一萬多。請教一下彭主委，我要考一下彭主委，關於基金的經營。這些勞工都可以，請問目前新制勞退金的經營績效跟目前金管會在推的TISA績效相比怎麼樣？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我沒有確切的數據，不過根據集保回報，因為去年……"],["鍾委員佳濱：超過勞退新制的經營情況嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：因為他們投資的基礎不一樣。據我所知，從去年7月開始到現在，TISA那幾檔基金的報酬都不錯。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長，簡單講，就是你同意吧？因為你們是雇主，要勞雇雙方同意才能推，你們同不同意？如果公股行庫所屬的勞退純舊制勞工有意願提前結存退休金，你同不同意？"],["莊部長翠雲：有新的制度當然應該要依照制度來做。"],["鍾委員佳濱：因為金融機構的員工比較靈活，他如果發現金管會的TISA好像獲利比較多，您可不可以讓他們提到TISA？雖然我知道你們是定期定額，如果經營績效不錯，可不可以帶槍投靠到那裡？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個要看個人的意願吧！"],["鍾委員佳濱：主委，你會不會去爭取？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想這是兩套不一樣的制度，一個真的就是正式退休制度，另一個是民眾自選的投資方案。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝主委。","再給我兩分鐘問一下，接下來請教部長，本席在去年的院會跟兩次記者會指出，我們發現中國的鋼品跟啤酒傾銷，當時經濟部判斷有初步損害，後來通過了反傾銷。我們看一下成果怎麼樣？進口啤酒的市占率從2023年超過了國產啤酒，而國產啤酒銷量這幾年持續下滑，終於在確認反傾銷之後拉回來了。部長，我要肯定你，因為反傾銷得來不易，部長是不是覺得反傾銷還是有用的？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然是的，為了國內的產業。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是接下來酒的問題還很多，我猜部長大概沒有喝過維士比或保力達，它叫做藥酒，請問你認為藥酒是藥還是酒？請董事長回答一下，藥酒是藥還是酒？"],["湯董事長期安：謝謝委員。這個應該是法律身分的不同，藥酒應該屬於在藥事管理法裡面，我們的酒屬於在菸酒管理法裡面，我不知道委員是要問哪一個部分。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，了解。董事長能夠清楚說出維士比跟保力達是藥酒，屬於藥品，不是酒，所以你們公司不賣。"],["湯董事長期安：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：請問部長，菸酒就有稅，菸酒稅還有分飲用酒跟料理酒，你知道這兩者稅的差別吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：目前釀造酒的稅，啤酒是每公升26塊錢；其他釀造酒每公升每度收7塊錢，像清酒跟紅酒。如果是蒸餾酒每公升每度2.5元。如果是再製酒，像人家調製的酒，超過20%的部分，每公升每度加185元；如果20%以下，每度每公升只有7塊錢。部長有沒有喝過再製酒？"],["莊部長翠雲：什麼叫再製酒？"],["主席：請簡答，儘速回應。"],["鍾委員佳濱：現在年輕人很多不是喝啤酒，都喝像雞尾酒的調酒，大概只有4%而已，他就在規避這個。請問部長，酒為什麼稅這麼複雜？蒸餾酒、啤酒、釀造酒、再製酒為什麼稅都不同？什麼原因？"],["莊部長翠雲：一開始的時候，跟酒精濃度會有關係……"],["鍾委員佳濱：為什麼酒精濃度跟稅有關？"],["莊部長翠雲：啤酒比較高，也有WTO相關的規範。"],["鍾委員佳濱：來，我給你一個建議，因為主席站起來了。去年我們在推無糖飲品免貨物稅，財政部支持嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：是的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：國人的反應很好，因為外國是課糖稅，喝加糖的要另外付稅，我們是喝不加糖的不用稅，我覺得這個方向國人是接受。我們看到糖有健康風險，但是飲用酒的類別、濃度跟製程對身體有不同健康的影響，像韓國燒酒，我剛從韓國回來……"],["主席：請鍾委員儘快做結論，謝謝。"],["鍾委員佳濱：以前日本的三倍增清酒是加水稀釋的，像日本燒酎或韓國燒酒，過去他們普遍認為對健康的風險較高，未來是不是可以請財政部針對飲用酒的類別、濃度跟製程做不同國民健康風險的評估，可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：有關國民健康風險的評估，可能我們要跟衛福部做討論，好不好？"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，我做結論了，主席站起來了。所以我希望未來酒稅可以考慮像貨物稅一樣，考慮國人的健康，未添加糖類的飲品免貨物稅，但是除了考量酒精濃度之外，我們希望對於各種酒精濃度較低的再製酒，它們對於健康風險飲用有沒有危害，也應該納入未來我們稅制制定的標準去參考，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們來研議看看，謝謝。"],["鍾委員佳濱：湯董事長，支持嗎？"],["湯董事長期安：支持，謝謝委員。"],["鍾委員佳濱：應該支持啦！"],["主席：後續做研議，好不好？"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員。","接下來請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":526,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-21","speakers":["李彥秀","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","林岱樺","劉書彬","李坤城","顏寬恒","賴惠員","陳玉珍","王世堅","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","王鴻薇","林思銘","羅明才"],"page_start":471,"meetingDate":["2026-07-08"],"gazette_id":"1156102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156102_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，有關財政部主管臺灣土地\n銀行股份有限公司、財政部印刷廠、臺灣菸酒股份有限公司（詢答）；二、審查中華民國115年\n度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有\n限公司（詢答）；三、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分，有關\n金融監督管理委員會主管：（詢答）(一)特別收入基金─金融監督管理基金、(二)信託基金─保\n險業務發展基金","agenda_id":"1156102_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}