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陽君發言 首先邀請部長請顧部長是 陽委員"},{"start":15.185,"end":29.059,"text":"我們現在關心一個時事議題,也就是中年油脂爆發的大豆沙拉油,驗出了一級的致癌物。本評比的超標問題,它的問題油品超過了1300公噸,在4月份的時候就已經製造。"},{"start":37.048,"end":56.205,"text":"並供應泰山、福壽、福茂等三家公司來使用造成目前由原本政府不願意公開到我們發覺這個問題食安零容忍請教部長食安是不是零容忍請教部長我們國軍一向很重視食安的問題"},{"start":56.986,"end":81.425,"text":"好 非常好 達成了一個共識 死安零容忍所以因此呢 到目前為止從政府不公布 到現在已經公布了三百多家那包括了知名的企業 衛權 金色山脈等那我們國防部所屬的福利事業這個管理處呢也曾經有進貨這樣的油品 引發了死安的一個疑慮"},{"start":82.285,"end":97.678,"text":"當然國防部在4號的時候就特別表示針對於這一項有疑慮的攻獸的品項你要求在2號的時間要求我們的復工中心要下架以及送驗國境單位"},{"start":100.06,"end":116.727,"text":"你們告訴我們說是已經停止使用那請問到目前為止在我們的部隊裡頭還有沒有有沒有徹查清楚還有沒有這些的品項在使用剛剛已經有委員推詢了那我是不是再請後製再說"},{"start":118.007,"end":146.732,"text":"委員好 後市市長跟委員報告我們經過核對以後我們總共復工中心有29個這種油脂的品項是那我們現在核對完之後有一個福壽這個香油它是福壽香油對對對包含品項跟批號那我們已經全面下架了第二個針對有疑慮的六項我們也全面下架第三個部長有要求所以我們現在29項油品全部在7月7號的時候全部送到第三檢驗單位去公正檢驗"},{"start":147.352,"end":163.737,"text":"立體檢驗因為衛福部從原先說參了20%以下他不算但是現在已經是髮夾彎只要有的因為只要是致癌物不管他的幾%就是致癌物就是毒啊怎麼可以如此說20%以下呢終於也昨天髮夾彎"},{"start":167.998,"end":191.022,"text":"只要有參到的就是要下架所以這個跟原先政府所公布的這個制度是不一樣的它的品質是不一樣的所以我要責成我們的部長必須要全面的去檢驗因為食安零容忍據聞在剛剛還有一批的批號又出來所以我還是要勉勵我們第一個國軍單位不能用到"},{"start":196.143,"end":210.695,"text":"有毒的 有害人體的食用油那本先生要請教 未來你的方向呢因為一變再變 品項也一直在增加請教 你要如何保障我們國軍食安的安全呢"},{"start":212.128,"end":224.933,"text":"包圍我們依照政府公布的這個相關的資訊公布到哪裡 政策到哪裡 我們就做到哪裡第二個 全面檢驗完畢之後確定這個食安無虞我們才會重新上架你剛剛所說的29項去檢驗什麼時候會出來呢預計10個工作天"},{"start":227.754,"end":253.511,"text":"十個工作天出來所以這個大家就是還是心驚驚這十個工作天會不會誤噴到了這個大家還是害怕所以我們一定要謹慎因為再次強調食安領龍人好 謝謝那現在我們針對於今天的主題也就是人力的問題那部長我們要說的國軍未來其實我認為最大的危機它不是武器而是沒有足夠的人"},{"start":258.374,"end":279.903,"text":"國防安全我們絕對全力支持合理的預算我們全力支持為民眾來把關來監督我們也全力所以在這樣的一個情況之下不管是不對稱的作戰無人機啊飛彈啊你的這個艦艇採購那都需要都需要大量的專業人力來操作那我們現在"},{"start":281.343,"end":309.934,"text":"又碰到了少子化 出生人口持續在下降那麼人數越來越少的情況之下我要請教部長喔少子化對國軍造成了衝擊吧請教部長我想跟委員報告 當然面臨少子化我們可徵的兵員當然減少那但是我們還是跟委員說明一下一邊是志願役嘛 對不對那這個部分我們要加強招募嘛那一邊還有義務役嘛"},{"start":310.754,"end":335.095,"text":"那義務役的部分因為現在延長會一年,那我們的目標就是要將這個義務役要有一個充足的訓練,使他能夠具有一個戰力那這樣子的話,我想維持住部隊在這個各方面的一個作戰能力透過這個雙軌,也就是志願役跟義務役的雙軌,我們希望能夠維持住我們應該有的作戰能力"},{"start":337.523,"end":352.717,"text":"你接受這個方案本席還是有疑慮因為我們特別針對2030年2035年2040年你要怎麼樣完整的一個人力模型剛剛所說的自願意的一個需求義務意的一個需求"},{"start":354.357,"end":377.301,"text":"後備動員這股力量也是非常的大還有我們各種這個軍種的缺額的一個預估那你未來你剛才所說的只有把延長義務役的把它延長到一年那這樣的一個情況之下我們國軍的人才政策你們是不是有去盤點要怎麼樣能夠去足夠因為我們延續這個議題的討論在整個義務役的一個招募"},{"start":381.735,"end":403.569,"text":"你認為現在的人數是你的理想目標嗎?我們不管是這個五年便利整建計畫,五年這個變裝的這個要太久的變裝,還有甚至包括五年的人力的這個結構,我們都是有在做規劃,而且是每一個單位每一個單位在看"},{"start":405.12,"end":424.163,"text":"所以那每一個單位也需要做怎麼樣的一個部隊的結構做相應的一個需求那我們要根據這個相應的需求來建置那這個來源的部分那當然就剛剛講了我們志願役的部分還是我們現在的一個主要的一個"},{"start":424.904,"end":445.527,"text":"他因為具有長期性還有成熟性有經驗家這個部分作為資源的一個主要是我們的一個主要來源但我們同時也要強化我們的EWE的一個能力那因為EWE有一年期的一個訓練所以他包括從新訓到駐地到基地等等他有一個完整的訓練那我們要維持住他在"},{"start":446.689,"end":457.103,"text":"退伍之後然後維持住他在這一個單位能夠原兵歸原位然後維持住他透過教導能夠維持住他的能力所以整個這個部隊的"},{"start":459.952,"end":486.382,"text":"人力的一個調整都是做一個長期的規劃做一個長期的規劃我們現在面臨到自願役的招募你剛剛沒有回答本席的提問因為現在大家在搶人不管是待遇工作環境升遷制度退伍出入還是勤務的負擔這些是不是都影響到你的這個自願役的一個招募條件"},{"start":487.307,"end":516.807,"text":"是不是我們我們在報告裡面也提到了就是說我們現在這個進來的這個執行的成果來看的話我們包括一些人性化的管理措施跟優化住戶環境還有各項的這些其他福利待遇也包括了提高薪資待遇等等我們會維持住我們志願役的一個招募的一個目標也就是說剛剛有提到莫巴當然要達到啊"},{"start":518.047,"end":535.216,"text":"你有那個目標當然是需求啊但是你實際上達成對啊你實際上需求你才會有一個目標嘛但是在你執行的過程你的達成率呢我們達成率照去年這樣看起來應該都是有達成"},{"start":536.264,"end":563.253,"text":"請教部長現在我們哪些軍種最缺哪些專長最缺現在目前為止我們現在整個來看以邊線筆來講的話當然還是主戰部隊這個的邊線筆比較低所以這個部分是我們應該要將我們主戰部隊的這個邊線筆要能夠拉伸這是我們主戰部隊的邊線筆嘛是是所以他還是沒有他還是缺嘛特別是北部地區的對啊那這怎麼辦呢"},{"start":564.742,"end":587.529,"text":"你要怎麼樣去調整呢?你有那個目標要達成啊那你也知道問題缺在哪裡啊那你怎麼辦呢?所以我們已經根據這個相關的這些組戰部隊的一些邊線比比較低的當然剛剛除了提到要提高他的整個加入這個誘因之外那另外我們透過這些他們的應該要"},{"start":590.153,"end":615.821,"text":"怎麼樣具備一個基本的戰力的這個部分我們提高的誘因你們準備要提高哪些誘因因為少子化不是明天的問題是現在進行式的事情那當然就是說 要提高什麼誘因呢包括這個戰鬥部隊的加級等等然後還有我們在報告也提到了現在明年開始大戰畢業的這個EWE他會明年他畢業會加入"},{"start":618.442,"end":620.023,"text":"跟您說的誘因到底要怎麼樣誘因,這是實質的問題"},{"start":634.207,"end":651.317,"text":"不管是企業界、科技業等相關單位都在搶人所以我們到底我們國防部相關的軍種你要怎麼樣去提升剛剛我們說的誘因我們所提出來的政策這麼好你可以去執行啊條件好當然人家願意啊所以你的誘因"},{"start":652.538,"end":678.604,"text":"包括了你的墨冰的改革流營的制度AI的替代後備的一個整建以及你長期的規劃這很重要特別在幽陰的部分我也希望你盤點書面資料給本席剛剛委員提到這幾點都是我們應該陸力以赴的我想贊同陸力以赴你也贊同我要謝謝你但是你把方案還是要拿出來謝謝謝謝委員指教謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:10:14.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:10:16.694000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，首先邀請部長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T12:10:16.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:10:16.794000+08:00","text":"請顧部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:10:17.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:10:17.294000+08:00","text":"楊委員好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:10:17.294000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:10:28.185000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:10:28.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:11:03.080000+08:00","text":"我們先來關心一個時事議題，中聯油脂爆發大豆沙拉油驗出一級致癌物苯駢芘超標，他的問題油品超過1,300公噸，在4月份的時候就已經製造，並供應泰山、福壽、福懋等三家公司使用，原本政府不願意公開到我們發覺這個問題，食安零容忍。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:11:03.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:11:05.622000+08:00","text":"請教部長，食安是不是零容忍？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:11:07.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:11:09.205000+08:00","text":"我們國軍一向很重視食安的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:11:10.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:11:13.068000+08:00","text":"非常好，達成了一個共識，食安零容忍。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:11:15.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:11:34.425000+08:00","text":"到目前為止，從政府不公布到現在已經公布了三百多家，包括味全、金色三麥等知名企業，國防部所屬的福利事業管理處也曾經進貨這樣的油品，引發了食安的疑慮。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:11:35.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:11:55.481000+08:00","text":"當然國防部在4號的時候就特別表示，針對有疑慮的供售品項，你們在2號時要求副供中心要下架及送驗，國軍單位告訴我們是已經停止使用。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:11:57.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:12:05.405000+08:00","text":"請問，到目前為止，部隊裡頭有沒有徹查清楚、還有沒有這些品項在使用？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:12:06.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:12:09.727000+08:00","text":"剛剛已經有委員垂詢了，我是不是再請後次室說明？好。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"李次長鳳翔","start":"2026-07-08T12:12:11.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:12:12.567000+08:00","text":"委員好，我是後次室次長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"李次長鳳翔","start":"2026-07-08T12:12:12.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:12:22.649000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，經過核對以後，我們副供中心總共有29個這種油脂的品項，現在核對完之後，有一個福壽香油，它是……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:12:23.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:12:23.569000+08:00","text":"福壽香油？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李次長鳳翔","start":"2026-07-08T12:12:24.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:12:27.430000+08:00","text":"對，包含品項跟批號，我們已經全面下架了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李次長鳳翔","start":"2026-07-08T12:12:28.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:12:31.230000+08:00","text":"第二個，針對有疑慮的6項，我們也全面下架。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李次長鳳翔","start":"2026-07-08T12:12:31.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:12:39.732000+08:00","text":"第三個，部長有要求，所以29項油品全部在7月7號的時候送到第三檢驗單位去公正檢驗。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:12:40.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:12:41.072000+08:00","text":"立即檢驗？對。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:12:42.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:12:54.956000+08:00","text":"衛福部原先說摻了20%以下的不算，但現在已經髮夾彎，因為只要是致癌物，不管是幾percent，它就是致癌物、就是毒啊！","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:12:55.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:12:56.357000+08:00","text":"怎麼可以說20%以下不算呢？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:12:56.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:13:11.400000+08:00","text":"終於在昨天髮夾彎了，只要有摻到就是要下架，所以這個跟原先政府所公布的制度是不一樣的，它的品質是不一樣的。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:13:12.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:13:32.786000+08:00","text":"我要責成部長，必須要全面檢驗，因為食安零容忍，據聞在剛剛還有一批的批號又出來，所以我還是要勉勵，第一個，國軍單位不能用到有毒、有害人體的食用油。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:13:34.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:13:36.769000+08:00","text":"本席要請教，未來你的方向呢？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:13:36.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:13:43.675000+08:00","text":"因為一變再變，品項也一直在增加，請教，你要如何保障我們國軍食安的安全呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李次長鳳翔","start":"2026-07-08T12:13:45.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:13:51.751000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們依照政府公布的相關資訊，公布到哪裡、政策到哪裡，我們就做到哪裡。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"李次長鳳翔","start":"2026-07-08T12:13:51.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:13:55.992000+08:00","text":"第二個，全面檢驗完畢之後，確定食安無虞我們才會重新上架。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:13:56.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:13:57.593000+08:00","text":"你剛剛說29項拿去檢驗，什麼時候會出來呢？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"李次長鳳翔","start":"2026-07-08T12:13:57.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:13:57.913000+08:00","text":"預計10個工作天。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:14:01.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:14:07.278000+08:00","text":"10個工作天會出來，大家還是「心驚驚」，這10個工作天會不會誤碰到？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:14:08.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:14:12.602000+08:00","text":"大家還是害怕，所以我們一定要謹慎，再次強調食安零容忍。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:14:15.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:14:19.487000+08:00","text":"現在我們針對今天的主題，也就是人力的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:14:19.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:14:26.491000+08:00","text":"部長，我們要說的是，其實我認為國軍未來最大的危機不是武器，而是沒有足夠的人。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:14:31.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:14:38.157000+08:00","text":"國防安全，我們絕對全力支持；合理的預算，我們全力支持；為民眾把關、監督，我們也全力去做。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:14:39.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:14:51.802000+08:00","text":"在這樣的情況之下，不管是不對稱作戰、無人機、飛彈、艦艇採購，都需要大量專業人力操作。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:14:52.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:15:05.627000+08:00","text":"我們現在又碰到少子化，出生人口持續下降，在人數越來越少的情況下，我要請教部長，少子化對國軍造成了衝擊吧？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:15:08.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:15:48.075000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，面臨少子化，我們可徵的兵源當然減少，但我們還是跟委員說明一下，一邊是志願役，這個部分我們要加強招募；另一邊是義務役，義務役的部分因為現在延長為一年，我們的目標就是要讓義務役有充足的訓練，使他能夠具有戰力，這樣子就能維持住部隊在各方面的作戰能力，透過志願役跟義務役的雙軌，希望能夠維持住我們應該有的作戰能力。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:15:50.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:16:27.381000+08:00","text":"你提的這個方案本席還是有疑慮，特別針對2030年、2035年、2040年來說，你要怎麼樣完整建構一個人力模型，剛才所說的，志役的需求、義務役的需求，包含後備動員這股力量也是非常的大，還有我們各軍種的缺額預估，依你剛才所說的只有把義務役延長到一年，在這樣的情況之下，國軍的人才政策你們是不是有去盤點，要怎麼樣能夠去補足？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:16:29.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:16:40.499000+08:00","text":"延續這個議題的討論，整個義務役的招募，你認為現在的人數是你的理想目標嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:16:40.499000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:16:41.499000+08:00","text":"請說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:16:40.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:17:07.492000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們不管是5年兵力整建計畫或是要汰除、編裝的，甚至5年人力的結構，我們都有在規劃，而且是每一個單位、每一個單位在看，所以每一個單位需要怎麼樣的部隊結構及相應的需求，我們要根據這個相應的需求來建置。當然。","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:17:08.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:17:57.214000+08:00","text":"這個來源的部分，當然，剛剛講了，志願役的部分還是我們現在主要的部分，因為它具有長期性、有成熟性、有經驗，所以志願役是我們的一個主要來源，但我們同時也要強化義務役的能力，因為義務役有一年期的訓練，所以他從新訓到駐地、到基地等等，有一個完整的訓練，在他退伍之後，我們要讓他在這一個單位能夠原兵歸原位，透過教召維持住他的能力，所以這整個部隊人力的調整，都是以長期規劃在看。","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:17:57.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:18:18.942000+08:00","text":"你們是做長期規劃，但我們現在面臨到志願役的招募問題，你剛才沒有回答本席的提問，因為現在大家在搶人，不管是待遇、工作環境、升遷制度、退伍出路，還是勤務的負擔，這一些條件是不是都影響到你志願役的招募？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:18:22.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:18:47.925000+08:00","text":"我們在報告裡面也提到了，以我們近來執行的成果來看，調整了包括人性化的管理措施跟優化住用環境，還有各項的福利待遇，也包括提高薪資待遇等等，我們會維持住志願役招募的目標，也就是說，剛剛有提到我們會以……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:18:49.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:18:49.787000+08:00","text":"目標當然要達到啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:18:51.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:18:57.110000+08:00","text":"你有那個目標當然是因為有需求啊，但是你實際上達成……","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:18:57.110000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:18:58.110000+08:00","text":"對，我們會根據我們的需求訂出一個目標。","quality":0.059},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:18:58.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:19:03.613000+08:00","text":"對啊，因為你有實際上的需求，你才會有一個目標，但是在你執行的過程中，你的達成率呢？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:19:04.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:19:08.196000+08:00","text":"我們達成率照去年看起來，應該都是有達成，迄今為止……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:19:09.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:19:12.705000+08:00","text":"請教部長，目前為止我們哪些軍種最缺？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:19:13.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:19:14.226000+08:00","text":"哪些專長最缺？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:19:15.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:19:30.271000+08:00","text":"我們現在整個來看，以編現比來講的話，當然還是主戰部隊比較低，所以我們應該要將主戰部隊的編現比拉升，這是我們……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:19:30.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:19:32.091000+08:00","text":"主戰部隊的編現比嘛。是。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:19:32.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:19:33.872000+08:00","text":"所以它還是沒有達到，還是缺嘛。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:19:34.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:19:35.132000+08:00","text":"特別是北部地區的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:19:35.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:19:36.233000+08:00","text":"對啊，那這要怎麼辦呢？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:19:37.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:19:38.822000+08:00","text":"你要怎麼樣去調整呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:19:39.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:19:44.324000+08:00","text":"你有那個目標要達成啊，你也知道問題缺在哪裡，那怎麼辦呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:19:44.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:20:05.854000+08:00","text":"所以我們已經針對一些編現比比較低的主戰部隊來改善，除了剛剛提到要提高他加入的整個誘因之外，我們也針對他們應該要怎麼樣獲得基本戰力這個部分來檢討。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:20:07.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:20:09.015000+08:00","text":"你們準備要提高哪些誘因？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:20:09.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:20:12.376000+08:00","text":"因為少子化不是明天的問題，是現在進行式。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:20:13.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:20:14.117000+08:00","text":"當然就是說……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:20:14.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:20:15.037000+08:00","text":"你要提高什麼誘因呢？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:20:16.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:20:28.801000+08:00","text":"包括戰鬥部隊的加給等等，我們在報告也提到了，明年開始大專畢業生加入義務役的行列，如果他願意自願選擇加入戰鬥部隊的話，他就可以加領戰鬥部隊的加給。","quality":0.418},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:20:31.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:20:56.853000+08:00","text":"剛才說的誘因到底要怎麼樣實施，這是實質的問題，因為不管是企業界、科技業等相關單位都在搶人，所以到底國防部針對相關的軍種要怎麼樣去提升剛剛你說的誘因？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:20:58.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:21:00.995000+08:00","text":"你們所提出來的政策這麼好，你可以去執行啊！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:21:01.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:21:03.297000+08:00","text":"條件好人家當然願意呀！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:21:04.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:21:20.893000+08:00","text":"你的誘因包括了募兵改革、留營制度、AI替代、後備整建以及你的長期規劃，這很重要，特別在誘因的部分，我希望你盤點後將書面資料給本席。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:21:21.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:21:26.759000+08:00","text":"是，剛剛委員提到的這幾點都是我們應該戮力以赴的，我贊同委員剛剛提的。","quality":0.71},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T12:21:27.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:21:30.923000+08:00","text":"好，戮力以赴，你也贊同，我要謝謝你，但是你方案還是要拿出來。是。謝謝。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:21:30.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:21:31.584000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員指教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T12:21:31.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:21:31.604000+08:00","text":"謝謝楊委員。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T12:21:32.104000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:21:36.961143+08:00","text":"接下來請林倩綺、林倩綺，林倩綺委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T12:21:37.261143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:21:40.118286+08:00","text":"請陳冠廷委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":755,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時10分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，首先邀請部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。我們先來關心一個時事議題，中聯油脂爆發大豆沙拉油驗出一級致癌物苯駢芘超標，他的問題油品超過1,300公噸，在4月份的時候就已經製造，並供應泰山、福壽、福懋等三家公司使用，原本政府不願意公開到我們發覺這個問題，食安零容忍。請教部長，食安是不是零容忍？"],["顧部長立雄：我們國軍一向很重視食安的問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常好，達成了一個共識，食安零容忍。到目前為止，從政府不公布到現在已經公布了三百多家，包括味全、金色三麥等知名企業，國防部所屬的福利事業管理處也曾經進貨這樣的油品，引發了食安的疑慮。當然國防部在4號的時候就特別表示，針對有疑慮的供售品項，你們在2號時要求副供中心要下架及送驗，國軍單位告訴我們是已經停止使用。請問，到目前為止，部隊裡頭有沒有徹查清楚、還有沒有這些品項在使用？"],["顧部長立雄：剛剛已經有委員垂詢了，我是不是再請後次室說明？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好。"],["李次長鳳翔：委員好，我是後次室次長。跟委員報告，經過核對以後，我們副供中心總共有29個這種油脂的品項，現在核對完之後，有一個福壽香油，它是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：福壽香油？"],["李次長鳳翔：對，包含品項跟批號，我們已經全面下架了。第二個，針對有疑慮的6項，我們也全面下架。第三個，部長有要求，所以29項油品全部在7月7號的時候送到第三檢驗單位去公正檢驗。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：立即檢驗？"],["李次長鳳翔：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：衛福部原先說摻了20%以下的不算，但現在已經髮夾彎，因為只要是致癌物，不管是幾percent，它就是致癌物、就是毒啊！怎麼可以說20%以下不算呢？終於在昨天髮夾彎了，只要有摻到就是要下架，所以這個跟原先政府所公布的制度是不一樣的，它的品質是不一樣的。我要責成部長，必須要全面檢驗，因為食安零容忍，據聞在剛剛還有一批的批號又出來，所以我還是要勉勵，第一個，國軍單位不能用到有毒、有害人體的食用油。本席要請教，未來你的方向呢？因為一變再變，品項也一直在增加，請教，你要如何保障我們國軍食安的安全呢？"],["李次長鳳翔：報告委員，我們依照政府公布的相關資訊，公布到哪裡、政策到哪裡，我們就做到哪裡。第二個，全面檢驗完畢之後，確定食安無虞我們才會重新上架。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你剛剛說29項拿去檢驗，什麼時候會出來呢？"],["李次長鳳翔：預計10個工作天。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：10個工作天會出來，大家還是「心驚驚」，這10個工作天會不會誤碰到？大家還是害怕，所以我們一定要謹慎，再次強調食安零容忍。","現在我們針對今天的主題，也就是人力的問題。部長，我們要說的是，其實我認為國軍未來最大的危機不是武器，而是沒有足夠的人。國防安全，我們絕對全力支持；合理的預算，我們全力支持；為民眾把關、監督，我們也全力去做。在這樣的情況之下，不管是不對稱作戰、無人機、飛彈、艦艇採購，都需要大量專業人力操作。我們現在又碰到少子化，出生人口持續下降，在人數越來越少的情況下，我要請教部長，少子化對國軍造成了衝擊吧？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，面臨少子化，我們可徵的兵源當然減少，但我們還是跟委員說明一下，一邊是志願役，這個部分我們要加強招募；另一邊是義務役，義務役的部分因為現在延長為一年，我們的目標就是要讓義務役有充足的訓練，使他能夠具有戰力，這樣子就能維持住部隊在各方面的作戰能力，透過志願役跟義務役的雙軌，希望能夠維持住我們應該有的作戰能力。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你提的這個方案本席還是有疑慮，特別針對2030年、2035年、2040年來說，你要怎麼樣完整建構一個人力模型，剛才所說的，志役的需求、義務役的需求，包含後備動員這股力量也是非常的大，還有我們各軍種的缺額預估，依你剛才所說的只有把義務役延長到一年，在這樣的情況之下，國軍的人才政策你們是不是有去盤點，要怎麼樣能夠去補足？延續這個議題的討論，整個義務役的招募，你認為現在的人數是你的理想目標嗎？請說明。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我們不管是5年兵力整建計畫或是要汰除、編裝的，甚至5年人力的結構，我們都有在規劃，而且是每一個單位、每一個單位在看，所以每一個單位需要怎麼樣的部隊結構及相應的需求，我們要根據這個相應的需求來建置。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然。"],["顧部長立雄：這個來源的部分，當然，剛剛講了，志願役的部分還是我們現在主要的部分，因為它具有長期性、有成熟性、有經驗，所以志願役是我們的一個主要來源，但我們同時也要強化義務役的能力，因為義務役有一年期的訓練，所以他從新訓到駐地、到基地等等，有一個完整的訓練，在他退伍之後，我們要讓他在這一個單位能夠原兵歸原位，透過教召維持住他的能力，所以這整個部隊人力的調整，都是以長期規劃在看。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們是做長期規劃，但我們現在面臨到志願役的招募問題，你剛才沒有回答本席的提問，因為現在大家在搶人，不管是待遇、工作環境、升遷制度、退伍出路，還是勤務的負擔，這一些條件是不是都影響到你志願役的招募？"],["顧部長立雄：我們在報告裡面也提到了，以我們近來執行的成果來看，調整了包括人性化的管理措施跟優化住用環境，還有各項的福利待遇，也包括提高薪資待遇等等，我們會維持住志願役招募的目標，也就是說，剛剛有提到我們會以……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：目標當然要達到啊！你有那個目標當然是因為有需求啊，但是你實際上達成……"],["顧部長立雄：對，我們會根據我們的需求訂出一個目標。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊，因為你有實際上的需求，你才會有一個目標，但是在你執行的過程中，你的達成率呢？"],["顧部長立雄：我們達成率照去年看起來，應該都是有達成，迄今為止……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請教部長，目前為止我們哪些軍種最缺？哪些專長最缺？"],["顧部長立雄：我們現在整個來看，以編現比來講的話，當然還是主戰部隊比較低，所以我們應該要將主戰部隊的編現比拉升，這是我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：主戰部隊的編現比嘛。"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以它還是沒有達到，還是缺嘛。"],["顧部長立雄：特別是北部地區的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊，那這要怎麼辦呢？你要怎麼樣去調整呢？你有那個目標要達成啊，你也知道問題缺在哪裡，那怎麼辦呢？"],["顧部長立雄：所以我們已經針對一些編現比比較低的主戰部隊來改善，除了剛剛提到要提高他加入的整個誘因之外，我們也針對他們應該要怎麼樣獲得基本戰力這個部分來檢討。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們準備要提高哪些誘因？因為少子化不是明天的問題，是現在進行式。"],["顧部長立雄：當然就是說……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要提高什麼誘因呢？"],["顧部長立雄：包括戰鬥部隊的加給等等，我們在報告也提到了，明年開始大專畢業生加入義務役的行列，如果他願意自願選擇加入戰鬥部隊的話，他就可以加領戰鬥部隊的加給。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：剛才說的誘因到底要怎麼樣實施，這是實質的問題，因為不管是企業界、科技業等相關單位都在搶人，所以到底國防部針對相關的軍種要怎麼樣去提升剛剛你說的誘因？你們所提出來的政策這麼好，你可以去執行啊！條件好人家當然願意呀！你的誘因包括了募兵改革、留營制度、AI替代、後備整建以及你的長期規劃，這很重要，特別在誘因的部分，我希望你盤點後將書面資料給本席。"],["顧部長立雄：是，剛剛委員提到的這幾點都是我們應該戮力以赴的，我贊同委員剛剛提的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，戮力以赴，你也贊同，我要謝謝你，但是你方案還是要拿出來。"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝委員指教。"],["主席：謝謝楊委員。","接下來請林倩綺、林倩綺，林倩綺委員不在。","請陳冠廷委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":222,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-35-26","speakers":["馬文君","王義川","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃建賓","王定宇","王安祥","沈伯洋","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","鍾佳濱","賴士葆","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","葉元之","黃仁","林楚茵"],"page_start":165,"meetingDate":["2026-07-08"],"gazette_id":"1155901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「少子化衝擊下國軍人力資源政策與未來因應規劃」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155901_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}