{"error":false,"id":["170379"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170379,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170379","日期":"2026-07-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-26","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":26,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-08T12:40:18+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-08T12:58:35+08:00","影片長度":"00:18:17","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4fafa81be08c82102ef57894fc717594701c2adc7b5d6a2bc2c552cdc9a7145f374a464778daf2145ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"12:40:18 - 12:58:35","會議時間":"2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「少子化衝擊下國軍人力資源政策與未來因應規劃」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":0.06471875,"end":0.73971875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"藍司長靜婷","start":0.8240937500000001,"end":1.9209687500000001,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":8.78909375,"end":9.700343750000002,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":9.71721875,"end":16.43346875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":16.61909375,"end":24.70221875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":24.70221875,"end":24.73596875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":26.59221875,"end":54.95909375,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":28.11096875,"end":28.58346875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":29.49471875,"end":29.528468750000002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"藍司長靜婷","start":42.01596875,"end":42.30284375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":55.38096875,"end":56.055968750000005,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":56.055968750000005,"end":56.275343750000005,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":56.275343750000005,"end":56.42721875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":56.42721875,"end":57.28784375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":57.28784375,"end":57.321593750000005,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":57.321593750000005,"end":57.40596875000001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":57.40596875000001,"end":57.524093750000006,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":57.524093750000006,"end":57.70971875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":58.604093750000004,"end":58.65471875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":58.65471875,"end":59.36346875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":60.156593750000006,"end":77.74034375000001,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":78.51659375,"end":86.76846875000001,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":87.39284375000001,"end":87.86534375000001,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":87.98346875,"end":124.18034375,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":125.17596875000001,"end":126.32346875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":127.67346875000001,"end":129.32721875000001,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":129.51284375,"end":142.38846875000002,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":142.38846875000002,"end":153.93096875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":154.38659375,"end":160.34346875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":160.39409375,"end":164.95034375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":165.40596875,"end":167.09346875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":167.44784375,"end":177.57284375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":177.80909375000002,"end":202.02471875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":202.46346875,"end":206.26034375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":206.74971875,"end":210.58034375000003,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":206.93534375000002,"end":207.18846875000003,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":210.32721875000001,"end":227.94471875000002,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"藍司長靜婷","start":217.61721875,"end":217.63409375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":217.63409375,"end":217.95471875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":228.11346875,"end":231.80909375000002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":232.45034375,"end":243.90846875000003,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":234.18846875000003,"end":234.54284375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":243.90846875000003,"end":250.01721875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":250.35471875000002,"end":254.28659375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":254.92784375000002,"end":259.56846875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":260.59784375000004,"end":262.08284375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":262.62284375,"end":269.30534375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":270.13221875,"end":271.43159375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":272.17409375,"end":289.92659375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":290.71971875,"end":296.96346875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":296.96346875,"end":299.68034375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":297.95909375,"end":321.49971875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":310.85159375,"end":311.39159375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":322.00596875,"end":336.53534375000004,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":336.53534375000004,"end":339.74159375000005,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":338.66159375,"end":345.07409375000003,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":341.10846875000004,"end":342.49221875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":345.07409375000003,"end":345.09096875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":345.09096875,"end":345.17534375,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":345.17534375,"end":346.71096875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":345.20909375,"end":349.91721875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":348.43221875,"end":368.09159375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":365.23971875,"end":367.12971875000005,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":367.68659375000004,"end":370.45409375,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":370.74096875000004,"end":372.86721875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":373.00221875,"end":374.90909375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":373.50846875,"end":373.74471875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":375.19596875,"end":375.44909375000003,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":375.82034375,"end":377.69346875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":377.96346875,"end":380.14034375,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":380.41034375000004,"end":381.76034375,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":382.14846875,"end":385.72596875000005,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":385.45596875,"end":395.04096875000005,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":389.69159375000004,"end":390.46784375000004,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":395.04096875000005,"end":415.61159375000005,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":395.26034375,"end":396.08721875000003,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":412.40534375000004,"end":413.21534375000005,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":414.56534375,"end":417.16409375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":417.18096875000003,"end":424.60596875000005,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":425.26409375000003,"end":426.69846875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":426.96846875,"end":438.05534375,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":438.44346875,"end":457.41096875000005,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":452.58471875000004,"end":454.55909375000005,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":455.50409375000004,"end":456.38159375000004,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":456.97221875,"end":493.21971875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":470.79284375000003,"end":470.91096875000005,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":493.87784375,"end":507.58034375000005,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":507.73221875,"end":510.60096875000005,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":510.95534375000005,"end":511.90034375000005,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":512.57534375,"end":516.76034375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":517.23284375,"end":521.04659375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":521.60346875,"end":526.5815937500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":527.05409375,"end":534.96846875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":535.8628437500001,"end":536.31846875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":536.60534375,"end":541.26284375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":541.51596875,"end":549.0928437499999,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":549.27846875,"end":550.6284687500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":551.10096875,"end":556.60221875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":557.02409375,"end":605.38784375,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":569.93346875,"end":569.96721875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":605.4553437500001,"end":615.78284375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":606.67034375,"end":607.8684687500001,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":614.8547187500001,"end":621.58784375,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":616.6772187500001,"end":617.04846875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":619.9509687500001,"end":620.59221875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":621.58784375,"end":627.71346875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":628.18596875,"end":631.1897187500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":631.52721875,"end":633.8559687500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":634.2609687500001,"end":638.68221875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":639.27284375,"end":645.2634687500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":645.58409375,"end":646.73159375,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":646.73159375,"end":646.9678437499999,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"候次長嘉倫","start":647.5078437500001,"end":648.72284375,"speaker_score":0.968},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"候次長嘉倫","start":649.27971875,"end":653.2453437500001,"speaker_score":0.968},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"候次長嘉倫","start":653.59971875,"end":657.3628437500001,"speaker_score":0.968},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"候次長嘉倫","start":657.66659375,"end":660.67034375,"speaker_score":0.968},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"候次長嘉倫","start":660.90659375,"end":667.42034375,"speaker_score":0.968},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"候次長嘉倫","start":667.9265937499999,"end":677.7647187500002,"speaker_score":0.968},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"候次長嘉倫","start":678.10221875,"end":681.29159375,"speaker_score":0.968},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"候次長嘉倫","start":681.3759687500001,"end":688.8347187500001,"speaker_score":0.968},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"候次長嘉倫","start":689.2565937500001,"end":705.77721875,"speaker_score":0.968},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":705.38909375,"end":707.09346875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":707.65034375,"end":711.43034375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"候次長嘉倫","start":710.31659375,"end":712.5947187500001,"speaker_score":0.968},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":712.2065937500001,"end":712.57784375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":712.5947187500001,"end":712.7297187500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"候次長嘉倫","start":712.7297187500001,"end":712.93221875,"speaker_score":0.968},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":712.93221875,"end":713.97846875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"候次長嘉倫","start":713.97846875,"end":715.3959687500001,"speaker_score":0.968},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":714.1472187500001,"end":714.24846875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":714.24846875,"end":714.3328437499999,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":714.3328437499999,"end":714.36659375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":714.80534375,"end":714.8897187500002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":714.8897187500002,"end":724.47471875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":715.3959687500001,"end":715.5647187500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":724.64346875,"end":728.84534375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":728.96346875,"end":731.24159375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":732.06846875,"end":737.7553437500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":738.31221875,"end":741.0459687500002,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":738.4809687500001,"end":739.0547187500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":741.2990937500001,"end":741.92346875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":741.92346875,"end":742.04159375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":742.04159375,"end":742.66596875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":742.66596875,"end":742.78409375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":742.78409375,"end":742.9697187500001,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":742.9697187500001,"end":743.30721875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":743.30721875,"end":743.62784375,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":744.1003437500001,"end":744.1172187500001,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":744.1172187500001,"end":744.2690937500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":744.2690937500001,"end":744.5559687500001,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":744.5559687500001,"end":745.60221875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":746.15909375,"end":751.18784375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":751.49159375,"end":760.0303437500002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":760.7222187500001,"end":773.2265937500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":773.8172187499999,"end":784.3134687500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":784.68471875,"end":789.2240937500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":789.6797187500001,"end":792.02534375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":792.5147187500002,"end":806.48721875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳局長元皓","start":806.48721875,"end":806.50409375,"speaker_score":0.907},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳局長元皓","start":808.34346875,"end":809.0859687500001,"speaker_score":0.907},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":809.0859687500001,"end":810.03096875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳局長元皓","start":811.0772187500002,"end":820.96596875,"speaker_score":0.907},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":817.16909375,"end":820.2234687500002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":820.96596875,"end":821.82659375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳局長元皓","start":822.34971875,"end":823.90221875,"speaker_score":0.907},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":822.7209687500001,"end":828.3234687500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳局長元皓","start":823.9697187500001,"end":823.9865937500001,"speaker_score":0.907},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":828.55971875,"end":832.9809687500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":833.4197187500001,"end":835.17471875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":835.4953437500001,"end":837.6553437500002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":839.0222187500001,"end":840.7434687500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":842.0090937500001,"end":842.2959687500002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":842.5659687500001,"end":842.78534375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":843.35909375,"end":843.71346875,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":844.20284375,"end":862.2084687500001,"speaker_score":0.945},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":862.2084687500001,"end":864.2165937500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":864.25034375,"end":867.62534375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":868.1653437500001,"end":872.43471875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":872.89034375,"end":874.6284687500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":875.42159375,"end":881.58096875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":882.0534687500001,"end":885.09096875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":885.6140937500002,"end":886.4240937500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":886.6940937500001,"end":893.64659375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":893.7478437500001,"end":898.1184687500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":898.3884687500001,"end":908.68221875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":909.30659375,"end":911.55096875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":912.0065937500001,"end":923.34659375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":923.61659375,"end":929.67471875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":931.0078437500001,"end":931.4465937500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":931.88534375,"end":933.9440937500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":934.45034375,"end":947.83221875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":948.1865937500002,"end":951.0047187500002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":951.74721875,"end":955.57784375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":955.67909375,"end":960.5222187500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":960.8428437500002,"end":962.15909375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":962.31096875,"end":966.36096875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":966.6984687500001,"end":970.2084687500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":970.6303437500001,"end":980.56971875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":980.9072187500001,"end":982.3247187500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":982.84784375,"end":985.7334687500002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":986.74596875,"end":987.33659375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":987.3703437500001,"end":989.69909375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":989.96909375,"end":997.19159375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":997.6640937500001,"end":999.41909375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":1000.12784375,"end":1002.9965937500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":1003.1484687500001,"end":1015.6359687500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"藍司長靜婷","start":1018.5890937500001,"end":1023.3647187500001,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"藍司長靜婷","start":1023.76971875,"end":1041.0159687500002,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":1041.2859687500002,"end":1053.57096875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":1054.6509687500002,"end":1059.9665937500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":1060.2703437500002,"end":1074.4959687500002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"藍司長靜婷","start":1075.7109687500001,"end":1090.0547187500001,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":1089.9703437500002,"end":1092.8897187500002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"藍司長靜婷","start":1090.2572187500002,"end":1090.9322187500002,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"藍司長靜婷","start":1091.84346875,"end":1095.3028437500002,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":1093.0247187500001,"end":1095.7415937500002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"藍司長靜婷","start":1095.64034375,"end":1095.9778437500001,"speaker_score":0.947}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.677,"end":24.567,"text":"先請教一下 因為部長昨天有去那個屏東九鵬基地嘛去視導相關的生生飛彈的一些操演狀況想問說 就是昨天去 特別選在昨天去有沒有什麼特別的宣示的意義 有沒有"},{"start":27.171,"end":42.545,"text":"因為它就是6號、7號、8號嘛,那我就選一天過去看一下這個相關的,因為有神宮跟神陰的草原,那特別就神宮草原的部分首次有人稀釋了無人刺針徽端的一個設計嘛。"},{"start":43.746,"end":51.79,"text":"那我想去瞭解一下,而且幫部隊打氣一下然後也瞭解訓練的實況我們現在整體的狀況"},{"start":60.869,"end":77.281,"text":"就訓練來看的話應該都是應該說按計畫執行那也達到這個訓練的一個成效那我想我們我看了以後我當然覺得我們可以再進一步的在"},{"start":79.162,"end":96.587,"text":"密集的 不說更密集 應該是說訓練只有更好 沒有最好所以應該有關這些 譬如說我們首次這個人蜥市市長會擔任一個社級嘛那這個我在現場看到以後 我覺得應該可以在"},{"start":97.627,"end":126.085,"text":"再更多的一個涉及的訓練那這第一個第二個當然要貼近更實戰化的一個一個一個一個場景裡面去做去做這樣子我覺得這個都是可以再進一步進進的那尤其人系社長當然這是首次嘛那我們去看我個人覺得他們的訓練都是很辛苦的然後要要賦予這樣子的一個一個一個"},{"start":127.748,"end":147.556,"text":"追苗等等這些我在現場看到可以充分的感受到這個是不容易的一件事情所以要透過一個精實的訓練我對他們的受到這樣的精實訓練是感到蠻高興的好 謝謝部長接下來跟部長討論一下今天我們主題主要就是軍中人力的問題"},{"start":148.476,"end":177.273,"text":"因為我們看到那個國防部送來的立法院的書面報告是有指出因為有這個薪資待遇調整的關係然後志願役的人力的成長有到五千人但是其實我在網路上面看到有很多軍中的弟兄蠻不以為然這件事情就是說這個五千是不是數字的美化可能部長還是要了解一下因為譬如說有人就講說那你就講到增加的他怎麼沒有講到跑到多少"},{"start":177.873,"end":206.018,"text":"然後會不會半年後會有一些賠錢的新聞因為他們如果說欠人志願役如果提早離開可能又賠錢嘛然後還有會不會一種說法是增加近來60但是不市府的55%然後還有提醒要不要看一下報退的人數所以我覺得這個在給立法院報告的時候應該精準啦就是說當然也可能你們在真人的部分有成長可是那對整體的能力來說到底有沒有提升因為有進就有出嘛"},{"start":206.818,"end":231.421,"text":"所以這個部分部長您的了解是怎樣?就整體剛剛其實由其他委員指教也就是說我們當然也有這個進來的當然也有出去的那總體來講還是增加了3000多個在114年的跟113年比較那所以總的來講還是呈現一個成長所以按照現在的做法之後應該還是會成長"},{"start":233.046,"end":258.295,"text":"我們總是要兢兢業業來從事各項的工作但總體來看當然就是說現在人數還是呈現成長另外一個就是戰鬥部隊的邊線比的問題因為雖然整體國軍來說是八成可是你看有一些特別特殊軍種的戰鬥部隊就比較差一點比如說像海軍的士兵現在的邊線比在陸戰隊"},{"start":260.623,"end":268.888,"text":"國防部戰砲各連手備運輸防空飛彈連才60.49%各艦隊的部隊的61.21%然後像戰術深舟大隊62.63%空軍的防空飛彈部隊才40.78%所以這個是非常的低那這個應該就是老問題了所以我不曉得國防部針對這些戰鬥部隊邊線比那麼低有沒有什麼比較具體的做法"},{"start":290.822,"end":314.949,"text":"所以每一個單位,它的邊線比低的原因都要加以檢討嗎?對,因為這個應該...我舉個例子啦,比如說您講的各艦隊的,它士兵的這個部分的邊線比低啊,那就涉及到他們這個海情加急的這個部分,我們就必須要對這個部分來做以檢討,因為海情加急的部分在"},{"start":315.99,"end":325.107,"text":"士兵、士官、軍官是有些差異的那同樣大家都在艦隊上面服務那這個海警的這個家級的部我們就來檢討"},{"start":326.192,"end":354.038,"text":"那這樣的話找出這個因為它士兵的邊線比較低嘛可是士官跟軍官的邊線比較高嘛所以我們就要找出這個理由然後再來提供所以部長你應該是已經找到理由了嘛現在只是說你什麼時候就每個各部隊對啦我意思是說我意思是說這其實不是新的數據啦應該這一兩年來每個各部隊都要主力來檢討對我部長應該是我的意思是說先執行的問題嘛因為這一兩年來應該很多人都跟你討論過這個問題"},{"start":355.578,"end":381.377,"text":"但是我現在問你 你還是說我們要找到原因然後有些原因你也是知道所以現在就是什麼時候要去實施嘛比如說你說各艦隊士兵的訓練比較低你什麼時候要實施的問題所以就是要跟人總已經在已經都討論了那你什麼時候要實施因為現在總體的整個方案我們總是要尊重人總"},{"start":382.236,"end":409.064,"text":"那人總跟我們討論出確定了以後我才能夠對外所以你應該是這樣講就是說你現在已經有一個方案了也跟人總來討論了是然後所以只要人總同意OK就會都來公佈嘛所以這個東西是在進行當中啦是是是因為當時總議院副委的時候也是說我們辦年齡所以行政院現在有一體的軍控叫加薪那之外我們的各項加級那我們適切的去討論各項的原因那我們用加級都是包在那個"},{"start":410.044,"end":426.278,"text":"軍公教加薪裡面嗎沒有沒有軍公教加薪我們是另外的所以他還會再找時間公布就對了對對我們總體討論以後有一個確定的方案我們就會來公布這樣子然後根據這個原因譬如說"},{"start":427.88,"end":445.453,"text":"像委員就指出來,如果各艦隊的部隊,他的士兵的邊線比跟士官跟軍官的邊線比低,那你要找出他的原因那你如果全部一體加志願役的加級的話,而沒有再特別去調整士兵的海潛的加級的話"},{"start":449.735,"end":477.473,"text":"可能還是沒有對症效藥所以我們必須要照顧到基層的士兵所以就海情的這個部分的加緊要有調整這個我都懂了啦因為剛剛都有講過我們現在講的是什麼時候要實施嘛那我現在抓一個時間如果我沒有理解錯誤的話你們已經把這些問題都跟人總討論過了嘛但是現在要尊重人總公佈的時程嘛我現在如果沒有理解錯誤應該是這樣嘛因為現在知道問題要知行合一嘛那接下來就是等人總公佈了"},{"start":478.974,"end":489.006,"text":"然後再來我再來問一下因為我現在看你們不市府就是剛剛講說有進有出不市府確實每一年逐年有在減少11年是3623112是"},{"start":493.931,"end":520.543,"text":"到了3928但是到了113 114 115你看下滑蠻快的那應該是跟軍中目前調整一些生活起居的舒適度各方面管理可能有關但是還是要提醒一下部長因為也有一些在網路上看到有一些軍人的反應他說不市府的數量減少可能跟那個流程被卡住有關"},{"start":521.673,"end":540.997,"text":"像有人想要調職呢 就先擋 退伍也擋然後或者是說 已經明明跟負責人士幹部提出了 但偏偏都卡在沒有約談所以沒有辦法往下跑程序然後也有人提到就是說 這個報退程序可能會拖到一年以上"},{"start":541.601,"end":555.591,"text":"那我是不曉得是不是有一個潛規則啦就是說有下令說有人假設要申請提早退伍的話是不是有說盡量在程序上慢一點然後讓這個數字好看有沒有這個潛規則"},{"start":557.262,"end":576.371,"text":"跟委員報告是這樣就是說第一個有一個是個案的問題一個是長期趨勢來看所以剛剛委員講的是個案我沒有辦法完全排除有這個可能性但是如果有發現這種狀況我們一定會下去處理但是您剛剛也提到如果你長年來看就是說已經三年了它都呈現下降趨勢"},{"start":576.971,"end":605.061,"text":"那就表示說我們相關的一些政策作為是有效的因為你不可能說每一個報退的人他都他都被擋然後然後但是整體整年的還是呈現下降的趨勢這這個這個所以我們我當我國安部立場我說如果有個案發現那這個要去處理那國安部立場是在政策面上面去製造一個讓這個不適合的人數逐年下降的一個好的環境這是我們國安部應該有的政策"},{"start":605.541,"end":630.607,"text":"那如果說有個案因為個案多就變通案嘛所以你也要去了解一下說軍中有沒有說在人家報退的程序上故意卡人家盡量就不要卡這個當然都要都像如果看哪個單位嘛如果都要下去處理盡量去不要卡然後再來請教一下就是國防部有講說未來國軍將依科技取代人力"},{"start":631.647,"end":645.674,"text":"即火力取代傳統兵力兩大方向前進請問一下什麼科技取代人力是指什麼因為這個寫的比較抽象一點科技取代人力然後火力取代傳統兵力是指什麼我們請設計師"},{"start":649.444,"end":664.931,"text":"維吾爾市長 報告針對剛剛講的部分我們針對組織邊窗有做調整那在區分的幾個部分來跟你說明我們有區分無人系統那我們運用無人機跟無人的載具進行偵查還有警戒還有執行相關高風險的任務來減輕我們人員的負荷"},{"start":668.132,"end":694.011,"text":"在智慧監視的部分我們有裝了相關的監視系統還有AI的辨識影像來降低我們衛哨的相關人力在我們的邊磚也有做調整自動化的後勤我們有導入到智慧的倉儲裝備的管理等等來減輕我們重複性的行政作業減少我們的後勤人力的壓力還有相關的智慧指管等等這些都是我們現在在做的"},{"start":694.511,"end":706.804,"text":"那這些做了之後可以將我們的組織再精進然後可以將我們的人力還有這些作業優化這是我們現在在做一個五年兵整的裡面規劃都已經完成相關的這些規劃所以到時候就可以"},{"start":707.785,"end":730.981,"text":"取代部分的人力嘛這個減少一些少子化的問題是這個意思應該是說可以取代大部分人力科技的運用它不是單純的採檢原格是將這些人力優先配置在我們需要的戰鬥部隊裡面這個是我們現在要重要的部長還有兩個小問題跟你請教一下因為我之前看到國防部要修改那個兵役的"},{"start":732.29,"end":759.551,"text":"體位的規定就是本來85智商85以下是不用當兵那現在要調到剛剛已經說明了這個不確實85沒有調這個消息不確實不是不確實我還沒講完你可能是回答別的委員不是回答我我還沒講完85智商85以下是不用當兵但是你們現在還是要增級只是把70到85把它移過去當替代役"},{"start":761.436,"end":788.747,"text":"對啊你們就是配合內政部的修法嘛所以70到85還是要先增兵增兵完之後再把它分配到替代役嘛但其實我覺得這個你們要跟內政部講一下因為70到85智商7到85放在軍中大家也不放心嘛對不對所以你們覺得不可能嘛還是要維持智商85以上可是他們去做替代役也是一樣的狀況啊就變成說也是會增加很多比如說他的前輩要去照顧"},{"start":789.747,"end":806.117,"text":"然後或者是到底指令能不能接受完整然後甚至於說因為他們這種特殊狀況然後去當替代役有時候人家還會打探說你是什麼病情來的也會影響到他個人的隱私啊所以我是覺得這個東西是還沒定案對不對還沒定案嘛"},{"start":811.124,"end":840.256,"text":"報告委員這個部分來講我們常備役的部分的這個智力的部分是沒有調整的我知道啦我知道我現在是你們配合內政部調整嘛那我現在是說這個東西定案沒有嗎定案了嗎其實看看是不是可以跟內政部再討論一下因為這個可能也沒辦法補充多少替代役的人力但是可能會造成更多的問題這是不是可以再跟內政部溝通一下而且會造成一些徵兵的問題啊"},{"start":842.009,"end":842.667,"text":"不要不要"},{"start":844.28,"end":872.178,"text":"替代役的體會的部分呢因為國防部的立場是但我們都是兩部討論嘛兩個部會討論那麼我們常備役體會我們是由國防部來主責那替代役的部分由內政部那委員的意見我反映給那個內政部好不好好那第二個第二個問題因為我之前我本來有個提案一個想法就是說其實我們很多退伍的軍人不管軍官士官他們退伍以後"},{"start":872.958,"end":897.698,"text":"如果要再就業其實是可以幫國家做蠻多事情的啦我就舉一個例子啦有一個是退休的飛官他是原住民那他現在就在學校裡面教原住民語言但是他教了幾堂課之後很快就超過了他的再就業的薪資上限不能超過三萬八千一百三嘛好嗎 再一分鐘不能超過三萬八千一百三嘛所以我"},{"start":898.459,"end":922.953,"text":"那之前本來有一個提案希望能夠打開這個天花板後來我跟其實蠻多的軍中的前輩討論過他們確實就是很多退伍的軍人比如說特戰部隊退伍下來他訓練有數訓練有數然後他他就可以到比如說一些特種營區去做比如說保全或什麼什麼的工作但是"},{"start":923.713,"end":950.312,"text":"那個工作他又受到那個薪資上限的規定所以他們可能就到民間去做私人保全所以這個退伍軍人薪資再就業的天花板實際上限制了很多我們公家機關招攬那些退伍軍人的機會他們不來這邊其實他們也是可以去民間機關可是我們就喪失這個人才那我上次提這個案之後有很多民進黨立委罵說"},{"start":952.449,"end":960.154,"text":"這個其實我是想要解決人力的問題我是想解決讓我們的公家機關有更好的退伍的軍人退休軍公教可以再就業的"},{"start":961.296,"end":985.355,"text":"問題但是就被扭曲成說什麼要腹辟肥貓我根本沒必要腹辟人貓啊現在肥貓也是民進黨在養啊關我什麼事我就只是想要我就只是想要解決能力的問題讓優秀的退伍軍人可以載到公部門來服不管當教官也好或當訓練的訓練人也好所以部長這個我不知道可不可以請國防部來研究一下就是說"},{"start":986.796,"end":1015.388,"text":"可以假設我剛剛講的那個動機目的是可以解決一些人力問題然後又不要讓社會上面民進黨那些人扣帽子說是在養肥貓能不能請國防部研究一個平衡點就是說退伍軍人他要再就業他的薪資天花板要定在多高一方面可以滿足人力的需求另外一方面又不會被人家認為是雙薪的肥貓部長這個可不可以幫忙研議一下"},{"start":1018.615,"end":1040.58,"text":"公園報告下我是志願司司長當初會有這樣子的訂定其實也是在立法院就是之前在審議的時候就是有討論到雙薪的問題所以後來現在訂了這樣的一個天花板那至於這樣子的一個需求我想我們還是要跟退府會然後一起來跟社會要一起來研商也要取得社會的一個共識來進行相關的一個處理以上報告 謝謝"},{"start":1041.52,"end":1059.666,"text":"你不用雙薪 肥貓應該都薪水很高嘛那你今天如果說我剛剛講的比如說他是退伍的然後他去學校講原住民語言他薪水可能四萬塊五萬塊而且是憑自己的勞力對不對 付出我覺得這樣子要把人家講成是雙薪肥貓是有點太過了啦"},{"start":1060.92,"end":1073.991,"text":"所以我是希望國防部可以訂一個標準就是什麼情況之下其實是符合正常的勞力社會的付出什麼情況之下你們會認為說那是肥貓是不是可以訂一些樣態跟標準出來"},{"start":1076.002,"end":1094.428,"text":"因為這個部分其實軍公教都是有一致的規範就是不光是退伍軍人其實退伍的公教人員也是一樣所以這個部分可能我們還是要能夠跟相關部會一起來協商包括退伍會然後要有一個社會的一個共識那你就可以了那你就去跟退伍協商了好 謝謝那就跟退伍協商了好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:40:18+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:40:20.669250+08:00","text":"麻煩請部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T12:40:20.669250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:40:23.338500+08:00","text":"有請顧部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:40:23.338500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:40:26.007750+08:00","text":"葉委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:40:26.007750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:40:28.677000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:40:28.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:40:35.342000+08:00","text":"先請教一下，因為部長昨天有去屏東九鵬基地視導相關刺針飛彈的一些操演狀況。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:40:35.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:40:42.307000+08:00","text":"我想請教，特別選在昨天去，有沒有什麼特別的宣示意義？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:40:45.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:40:47.253000+08:00","text":"因為它就是6日、7日及8日嘛！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:40:48.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:41:09.450000+08:00","text":"我就選一天過去看一下相關的……因為有神弓及神鷹的操演，特別就神弓操演的部分，首次有人攜式刺針飛彈的射擊，我去了解一下，而且幫部隊打氣一下，也去了解訓練的實況，我……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:41:09.450000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:41:10.450000+08:00","text":"那天看起來怎麼樣？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:41:09.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:41:09.790000+08:00","text":"就我們現在整體的狀況。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:41:18.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:41:26.514000+08:00","text":"就訓練來看，應該說有按計畫執行，也達到訓練的成效。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:41:31.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:41:43.504000+08:00","text":"我看了以後，我當然覺得我們可以再進一步的密集的……不是說更密集，應該是說訓練只有更好、沒有最好。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:41:46.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:41:58.829000+08:00","text":"有關這些我們首次有人攜式刺針飛彈的射擊，我在現場看到以後，我覺得應該可以再更多的射擊訓練，這第一個。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:41:58.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:42:13.598000+08:00","text":"第二個，當然要貼近更實戰化的場景裡去做操演，我覺得這個都是可以再進一步精進的，尤其人攜式刺針飛彈射擊訓練，這是首次嘛！","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:42:14.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:42:39.613000+08:00","text":"我們去看，我個人覺得他們的訓練都是很辛苦的，要賦予這樣的追瞄鎖定等等這些訓練，我在現場可以充分感受到這是不容易的一件事情，要透過精實的訓練，我對他們受到這樣的精實訓練是感到蠻高興的。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:42:40.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:42:41.554000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:42:41.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:42:45.556000+08:00","text":"接下來跟部長討論一下今天的主題，主要是軍中人力的問題。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:42:46.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:43:15.253000+08:00","text":"我們看到國防部送來立法院的書面報告有指出，因為有薪資待遇調整的關係，志願役人力的成長有到5,000人，其實我在網路上面看到有很多軍中的弟兄蠻不以為然這件事情，這5,000人是不是經過數字的美化，可能部長還是要了解一下，譬如有人就講：你就講到增加的，怎麼沒有講跑掉多少？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:43:16.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:43:18.413000+08:00","text":"會不會半年後有一些賠錢的新聞？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:43:18.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:43:22.274000+08:00","text":"他們簽了志願役如果要提早離開，可能要賠錢嘛！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:43:23.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:43:28.695000+08:00","text":"還有會不會有一種說法是，增加進來60%但是不適服的55%？","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:43:29.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:43:30.776000+08:00","text":"還有人提醒要不要看一下報退的人數？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:43:32.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:43:42.798000+08:00","text":"我覺得在給立法院報告的時候應該要精準，當然也有可能你們在徵人的部分有成長，可是對整體的人力來說到底有沒有提升？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:43:43.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:43:43.998000+08:00","text":"因為有進就有出嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:43:44.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:43:47.300000+08:00","text":"所以針對這個部分，部長您的了解是怎樣？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:43:49.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:43:55.568000+08:00","text":"剛剛其實有其他委員有指教，我們當然也有進來的，也有出去的……對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:43:57.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:44:06.499000+08:00","text":"總體來講，就114年跟113年比較，還是有增加了三千多個，總體來講還是有呈現成長。","quality":0.323},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:44:06.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:44:09.421000+08:00","text":"所以按照現在的做法，之後應該還是會成長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:44:11.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:44:22.570000+08:00","text":"我們總是要兢兢業業來從事各項的工作，但總體來看，現在人數還是呈現成長啦！","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:44:22.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:44:44.386000+08:00","text":"另外一個是戰鬥部隊編現比的問題，雖然整體國軍來說是8成，可是你看有一些特殊軍種的戰鬥部隊就比較差一點，比如像海軍裡的士兵，現在編現比在陸戰隊步戰砲各連及守備/運輸/防空/飛彈連才60.49%、各艦隊部隊是61.21%、戰術偵搜大隊62.63%及空軍的防空暨飛彈部隊才40.78%，這非常的低，這個應該是老問題了啦！","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:44:44.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:44:46.868000+08:00","text":"所以我不曉得國防部針對這些戰鬥部隊編現比那麼低，有沒有什麼比較具體的做法？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:45:09.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:45:15.464000+08:00","text":"每一個單位編現比低的原因都要加以檢討……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:45:15.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:45:17.524000+08:00","text":"因為這個應該討論一、兩年了。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:45:17.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:45:54.234000+08:00","text":"我舉個例子，比如您講各艦隊士兵的編現比低，這就是涉及到他們海勤加給的部分，我們就必須要對這個部分來加以檢討，因為海勤加給在士兵、士官、軍官是有些差異，同樣大家都在艦隊上面服務，針對海勤加給的部分，我們會再來檢討，因為它的士兵編現比比較低，可是士官及軍官的編現比比較高，所以我們就要找出這個理由，再來提供……","quality":0.819},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:45:54.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:45:57.155000+08:00","text":"所以部長應該是已經找到理由了，現在只是說你什麼時候……","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:45:57.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:45:58.495000+08:00","text":"每個部隊，跟委員報告……","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:45:59.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:46:04.696000+08:00","text":"我意思是這其實不是新的數據，應該這一、兩年來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:46:04.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:46:06.657000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，每個部隊都要逐一來檢討。","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:46:06.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:46:25.947000+08:00","text":"對，部長，我的意思是執行的問題，這一、兩年來應該很多人都跟你討論過這個問題，但是我現在問你，你還是說我們要找到原因，有些原因你也知道，所以現在就是什麼時候要去實施，比如你說各艦隊士兵的編現比比較低，就是要你什麼時候要實施的問題。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:46:26.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:46:30.470000+08:00","text":"這跟人總已經在討論了。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:46:32.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:46:32.672000+08:00","text":"你什麼時候要實施？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:46:33.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:46:43.437000+08:00","text":"因為現在整個總體的方案，我們總是要尊重人總，人總跟我們討論確定了以後我才能夠對外公布。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:46:44.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:46:47.778000+08:00","text":"應該這樣講，你現在已經有一個方案，也跟人總來討論了……是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:46:49.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:46:53+08:00","text":"只要人總同意OK就會對外公布，所以這個東西是在進行當中，應該是這樣講？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:46:53.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:47:06.043000+08:00","text":"是，因為當時總預算付委的時候，也是說我們半年內，所以行政院現在有一體的軍公教加薪，除此之外，關於各項加給，我們適切地去討論各項原因，用加給……","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:47:06.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:47:09.405000+08:00","text":"都是包在軍公教加薪裡面嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:47:09.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:47:11.087000+08:00","text":"沒有，軍公教加薪是……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:47:11.087000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:47:12.087000+08:00","text":"另外的？","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:47:11.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:47:13.109000+08:00","text":"我們是另外的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:47:13.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:47:15.951000+08:00","text":"所以還會再找時間公布就對了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:47:16.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:47:54.919000+08:00","text":"對，我們總體討論以後有一個確定的方案，我們就會公布，根據這個原因，比如說，你看像委員就指出來，如果各艦隊的部隊士兵編現比，比士官、軍官的編現比低，你要找出原因，如果全部一體加志願役的加給的話，沒有再特別去調增士兵的海勤加給，可能還是沒有對症下藥，我們必須要照顧到基層的士兵，所以就海勤這部分的加給可能要有調整。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:47:55.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:48:10.530000+08:00","text":"部長，這個我懂，因為剛剛都有講過，我們現在講的是什麼時候要實施，我現在抓一個時間，如果我沒有理解錯誤的話，你們已經把這些問題都跟人總討論過了，但是現在要尊重人總公布的時程，如果沒有理解錯誤應該是這樣。是。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:48:12.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:48:15.453000+08:00","text":"知道問題要知行合一，接下來就是等人總公布了。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:48:17.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:49:18.977000+08:00","text":"我再來問一下，因為我現在看不適服，剛剛講有進有出，不適服確實每一年有逐年減少，111年是3,623人，112年是3,928人，但是到了113年、114年、115年下滑蠻快的，可能跟目前軍中調整一些生活起居的舒適度、管理各方面有關，但還是要提醒一下部長，因為在網路上有看到一些軍人的反應，他說不適服的數量減少可能跟流程被卡住有關，像有人想要調職就先擋，退伍也擋，或者是明明已經跟負責人事的幹部提出了，但偏偏都卡在「沒有約談」，所以沒有辦法往下跑程序，也有人提到報退程序可能拖到一年以上。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:49:19.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:49:33.591000+08:00","text":"我不曉得是不是有一個潛規則，就是有下令假設有人要申請提早退伍的話，儘量在程序上慢一點，讓這個數字好看，有沒有這個潛規則？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:49:35.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:50:06.875000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，一個是個案的問題，一個是從長期趨勢來看，剛剛委員講的是個案，我沒有辦法完全排除有這個可能性，但是如果有發現這種狀況，我們一定會下去處理，但是您剛剛也提到，如果長年來看，已經三年都呈現下降趨勢，那就表示我們相關的一些政策作為是有效的，因為不可能每一個報退的人都被擋，整體每年還是呈現下降趨勢。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:50:09.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:50:23.041000+08:00","text":"當然我們國防部立場是如果有個案發現，這要去處理，國防部立場是在政策面上去製造一個讓不適服人數逐年下降的好環境，這是我們國防部應該有的政策。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:50:23.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:50:33.583000+08:00","text":"如果有個案，因為個案多就變通案，所以你也要去了解一下軍中有沒有在報退程序上故意卡人家，儘量就不要卡，對不對？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:50:34.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:50:39.385000+08:00","text":"這個當然要看哪個單位，都要下去處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:50:39.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:50:40.585000+08:00","text":"儘量不要卡。是。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:50:41.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:50:57.371000+08:00","text":"再來請教一下，國防部有講未來國軍將依「科技取代人力」及「火力取代傳統兵力」兩大方向前進，請問一下科技取代人力是指什麼？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:50:57.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:51:03.654000+08:00","text":"因為這個寫得比較抽象一點，火力取代傳統兵力是指什麼？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:51:03.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:51:03.674000+08:00","text":"我請作計室說明。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"侯次長嘉倫","start":"2026-07-08T12:51:03.674000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:51:08.324000+08:00","text":"委員你好，作計室次長報告。","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"侯次長嘉倫","start":"2026-07-08T12:51:08.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:51:13.787000+08:00","text":"剛剛講的部分，我們針對組織編裝有做調整，區分幾個部分來跟您說明。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"侯次長嘉倫","start":"2026-07-08T12:51:13.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:51:22.911000+08:00","text":"我們有區分無人系統，運用無人機跟無人載具進行偵查、警戒，還有執行高風險的任務，來減輕人員的負荷。","quality":1},{"speaker":"侯次長嘉倫","start":"2026-07-08T12:51:26.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:51:35.519000+08:00","text":"在智慧監偵的部分，我們有裝了相關的監視系統以及AI辨識影像，來降低衛哨的相關人力，在編裝也有做調整。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"侯次長嘉倫","start":"2026-07-08T12:51:36.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:51:49.469000+08:00","text":"自動化的後勤，導入智慧的倉儲、裝備的管理等等，來減輕重複性的行政作業，也減少後勤人力的壓力，還有相關的智慧指管等等。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"侯次長嘉倫","start":"2026-07-08T12:51:49.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:52:03.443000+08:00","text":"這些都是我們現在在做的，這些做了之後，可以將我們的組織再精進，將人力還有一些作業優化，這是我們現在在做的五年兵整，且都已經完成相關的規劃。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:52:03.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:52:09.187000+08:00","text":"所以到時候就可以取代部分的人力，減少一些少子化的問題，是這個意思嗎？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"侯次長嘉倫","start":"2026-07-08T12:52:09.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:52:12.169000+08:00","text":"應該是說可以取代大部分的人力。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:52:12.169000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:52:13.630000+08:00","text":"大部分人力，部長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:52:13.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:52:22.836000+08:00","text":"科技的運用不是單純的裁減員額，是將這些人力優先配置在我們需要的戰鬥部隊裡面，這在目前是重要的。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:52:22.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:52:35.454000+08:00","text":"部長，還有兩個小問題跟你請教一下，因為我之前看到國防部要修改兵役體位規定，本來智商85以下是不用當兵，現在要調到……","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:52:36.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:52:42.439000+08:00","text":"剛剛已經說明了，這個消息不確實，沒有調。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:52:44.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:52:47.563000+08:00","text":"不是，我還沒講完，你可能是回答別的委員不是回答我，我還沒講完。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:52:49.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:53:07.519000+08:00","text":"智商85以下不用當兵，但是你們現在還是要增級，只是把70到85移過去當替代役，可能你們配合內政部的修法，所以70到85還是要先徵兵，徵兵完之後再把他分配到替代役。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:53:08.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:53:40.115000+08:00","text":"但是我覺得你們要跟內政部講一下，因為70到85放在軍中，大家也不放心，所以你們覺得不可能，還是要維持智商85以上，可是他們去做替代役也是一樣的狀況，也是會增加很多狀況，比如說他的前輩要去照顧，或者是指令到底能不能接收完整，甚至於因為他們這種特殊狀況去當替代役，有時候人家還會打探他是什麼病情，也會影響到他個人的隱私。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:53:41.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:53:43.577000+08:00","text":"這個部分還沒定案，對不對？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳局長元皓","start":"2026-07-08T12:53:49.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:53:54.786000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這部分來講，我們常備役的智力是沒有調整的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:53:54.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:54:01.189000+08:00","text":"我知道，現在是你們配合內政部調整，我是問定案了沒有？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳局長元皓","start":"2026-07-08T12:54:01.189000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:54:02.830000+08:00","text":"對，這部分定了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:54:02.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:54:18.236000+08:00","text":"定案了，看看是不是可以跟內政部再討論一下，因為這可能也沒辦法補充多少替代役的人力，但可能會造成更多的問題，是不是可以再跟內政部溝通一下，而且會造成一些徵兵的問題，部長？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T12:54:22.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:54:39.651000+08:00","text":"替代役的體位部分，國防部的立場是……當然我們兩個部會都會討論，常備役的體位是由國防部來主責，替代役的部分由內政部，委員的意見，我反映給內政部。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:54:41.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:55:09.794000+08:00","text":"第二個問題，我本來有個提案、有一個想法，我們有很多退伍軍人，不管是軍官或士官，他們退伍以後如果要再就業，其實是可以幫國家做滿多事情的，我舉一個例子，有一個退休飛官，他是原住民，他現在在學校裡面教原住民語言，但是他教了幾堂課之後，很快就超過了他再就業的薪資上限，不能超過3萬8,130元。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:55:16.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:55:47.417000+08:00","text":"之前本來有一個提案希望能夠打開這個天花板，後來我跟蠻多軍中前輩討論過，確實很多退伍的軍人，比如說特戰部隊退伍下來，因為他訓練有素，例如可以到一些特種營區去做保全或什麼的工作，但是那個工作又受到薪資上限的規定，所以他們可能就到民間去做私人保全。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:55:50.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:56:05.510000+08:00","text":"退伍軍人再就業的薪資天花板實際上限制了很多公家機關招攬退伍軍人的機會，他們不來這邊，其實他們也可以去民間機關，可是我們就喪失這個人才。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:56:06.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:56:38.291000+08:00","text":"我上次提這個案子之後，有很多民進黨立委罵說這個……其實我是想要解決人力的問題，想讓公家機關有更好的退伍軍人及退休軍公教可以再就業，但被扭曲成什麼要復辟肥貓，我根本沒必要復辟肥貓，現在肥貓也是民進黨養，關我什麼事，我就只是想要解決人力的問題，讓優秀的退伍軍人可以再到公部門來服務，不管當教官也好或訓練人也好。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:56:39.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:56:42.815000+08:00","text":"部長，我不知道可不可以請國防部來研究一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:56:45.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:57:13.368000+08:00","text":"假設我剛剛講的動機目的可以解決一些人力問題，不要讓社會上民進黨那些人扣帽子說是在養肥貓，能不能請國防部研究個平衡點，退伍軍人再就業的薪資天花板要定多高，一方面可以滿足人力的需求，另外一方面又不會被人家認為是雙薪肥貓，部長，這個可不可以幫忙研議一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"藍司長靜婷","start":"2026-07-08T12:57:17.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:57:18.856000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下，我是資源規劃司司長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"藍司長靜婷","start":"2026-07-08T12:57:18.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:57:26.857000+08:00","text":"當初會有這樣子的訂定，其實也是在立法院之前在審議的時候，有討論到雙薪的問題，所以後來訂了這樣的天花板。","quality":1},{"speaker":"藍司長靜婷","start":"2026-07-08T12:57:27.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:57:37.800000+08:00","text":"至於這樣子的需求，我們還是要跟退輔會一起來研商，也要取得社會的共識，來進行相關的處理。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"藍司長靜婷","start":"2026-07-08T12:57:38.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:57:38.580000+08:00","text":"以上報告，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:57:39.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:57:57.306000+08:00","text":"不用雙薪，肥貓應該都薪水很高，你今天如果說……我剛剛講的，比如說他是退伍的，他去學校講原住民語言，薪水可能4萬塊、5萬塊，而且是憑自己的勞力付出，我覺得這樣子要把人家講成是雙薪肥貓是有點太過了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:57:58.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:58:11.991000+08:00","text":"所以我希望國防部可以定一個標準，就是什麼情況之下是符合社會正常的勞力付出，而什麼情況之下會認為那是肥貓，可以定一些樣態跟標準出來。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"藍司長靜婷","start":"2026-07-08T12:58:14.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:58:28.167000+08:00","text":"因為其實這個部分軍公教都有一致的規範，不光是退伍軍人，其實退休的公教人員也是一樣，所以我們可能還是要跟相關部會一起來協商，包括退輔會，要有社會的共識。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-08T12:58:28.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T12:58:31.428000+08:00","text":"可以，你就去跟退輔會協商，謝謝。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T12:58:31.928000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:58:34.785143+08:00","text":"謝謝，請國防部研擬一下。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T12:58:35.085143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:58:51.085143+08:00","text":"剛剛委員提到替代役的部分，因為入伍訓的時候，其實還是會到新訓中心去訓練，如果智力在70以上到85之間仍會到軍中，可能還是會有影響。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T12:58:51.385143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:59:29.099429+08:00","text":"這個部分剛剛國防部回應說是假訊息，這也是錯的，因為你們已經在配合可能相關的一些政策方向，所以我們希望回答的時候可以更精準一點，如果對我們整個政策有影響，不管是行政院也好，內政部也好，我們都應該要提出比較專業的看法，如果還需要其他人去照顧他們，可能也沒有這麼多的人力，在這裡先提醒國防部。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T12:59:29.399429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:59:37.113714+08:00","text":"已經登記質詢的委員除不在場外，均已發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T12:59:37.413714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T12:59:59.413714+08:00","text":"本日會議有黃仁委員、林楚茵委員提出書面質詢，請列入紀錄並刊登公報；委員書面及口頭質詢未及答復部分或要求補充資料者，請國防部兩週內以書面答復，委員有約定期限者從其所定。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":844,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（12時40分）麻煩請部長。"],["主席：有請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：部長好。先請教一下，因為部長昨天有去屏東九鵬基地視導相關刺針飛彈的一些操演狀況。我想請教，特別選在昨天去，有沒有什麼特別的宣示意義？"],["顧部長立雄：因為它就是6日、7日及8日嘛！我就選一天過去看一下相關的……因為有神弓及神鷹的操演，特別就神弓操演的部分，首次有人攜式刺針飛彈的射擊，我去了解一下，而且幫部隊打氣一下，也去了解訓練的實況，我……"],["葉委員元之：那天看起來怎麼樣？就我們現在整體的狀況。"],["顧部長立雄：就訓練來看，應該說有按計畫執行，也達到訓練的成效。我看了以後，我當然覺得我們可以再進一步的密集的……不是說更密集，應該是說訓練只有更好、沒有最好。有關這些我們首次有人攜式刺針飛彈的射擊，我在現場看到以後，我覺得應該可以再更多的射擊訓練，這第一個。第二個，當然要貼近更實戰化的場景裡去做操演，我覺得這個都是可以再進一步精進的，尤其人攜式刺針飛彈射擊訓練，這是首次嘛！我們去看，我個人覺得他們的訓練都是很辛苦的，要賦予這樣的追瞄鎖定等等這些訓練，我在現場可以充分感受到這是不容易的一件事情，要透過精實的訓練，我對他們受到這樣的精實訓練是感到蠻高興的。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝部長。","接下來跟部長討論一下今天的主題，主要是軍中人力的問題。我們看到國防部送來立法院的書面報告有指出，因為有薪資待遇調整的關係，志願役人力的成長有到5,000人，其實我在網路上面看到有很多軍中的弟兄蠻不以為然這件事情，這5,000人是不是經過數字的美化，可能部長還是要了解一下，譬如有人就講：你就講到增加的，怎麼沒有講跑掉多少？會不會半年後有一些賠錢的新聞？他們簽了志願役如果要提早離開，可能要賠錢嘛！還有會不會有一種說法是，增加進來60%但是不適服的55%？還有人提醒要不要看一下報退的人數？","我覺得在給立法院報告的時候應該要精準，當然也有可能你們在徵人的部分有成長，可是對整體的人力來說到底有沒有提升？因為有進就有出嘛！所以針對這個部分，部長您的了解是怎樣？"],["顧部長立雄：剛剛其實有其他委員有指教，我們當然也有進來的，也有出去的……"],["葉委員元之：對。"],["顧部長立雄：總體來講，就114年跟113年比較，還是有增加了三千多個，總體來講還是有呈現成長。"],["葉委員元之：所以按照現在的做法，之後應該還是會成長？"],["顧部長立雄：我們總是要兢兢業業來從事各項的工作，但總體來看，現在人數還是呈現成長啦！"],["葉委員元之：另外一個是戰鬥部隊編現比的問題，雖然整體國軍來說是8成，可是你看有一些特殊軍種的戰鬥部隊就比較差一點，比如像海軍裡的士兵，現在編現比在陸戰隊步戰砲各連及守備/運輸/防空/飛彈連才60.49%、各艦隊部隊是61.21%、戰術偵搜大隊62.63%及空軍的防空暨飛彈部隊才40.78%，這非常的低，這個應該是老問題了啦！所以我不曉得國防部針對這些戰鬥部隊編現比那麼低，有沒有什麼比較具體的做法？"],["顧部長立雄：每一個單位編現比低的原因都要加以檢討……"],["葉委員元之：因為這個應該討論一、兩年了。"],["顧部長立雄：我舉個例子，比如您講各艦隊士兵的編現比低，這就是涉及到他們海勤加給的部分，我們就必須要對這個部分來加以檢討，因為海勤加給在士兵、士官、軍官是有些差異，同樣大家都在艦隊上面服務，針對海勤加給的部分，我們會再來檢討，因為它的士兵編現比比較低，可是士官及軍官的編現比比較高，所以我們就要找出這個理由，再來提供……"],["葉委員元之：所以部長應該是已經找到理由了，現在只是說你什麼時候……"],["顧部長立雄：每個部隊，跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：我意思是這其實不是新的數據，應該這一、兩年來……"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，每個部隊都要逐一來檢討。"],["葉委員元之：對，部長，我的意思是執行的問題，這一、兩年來應該很多人都跟你討論過這個問題，但是我現在問你，你還是說我們要找到原因，有些原因你也知道，所以現在就是什麼時候要去實施，比如你說各艦隊士兵的編現比比較低，就是要你什麼時候要實施的問題。"],["顧部長立雄：這跟人總已經在討論了。"],["葉委員元之：你什麼時候要實施？"],["顧部長立雄：因為現在整個總體的方案，我們總是要尊重人總，人總跟我們討論確定了以後我才能夠對外公布。"],["葉委員元之：應該這樣講，你現在已經有一個方案，也跟人總來討論了……"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["葉委員元之：只要人總同意OK就會對外公布，所以這個東西是在進行當中，應該是這樣講？"],["顧部長立雄：是，因為當時總預算付委的時候，也是說我們半年內，所以行政院現在有一體的軍公教加薪，除此之外，關於各項加給，我們適切地去討論各項原因，用加給……"],["葉委員元之：都是包在軍公教加薪裡面嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：沒有，軍公教加薪是……"],["葉委員元之：另外的？"],["顧部長立雄：我們是另外的。"],["葉委員元之：所以還會再找時間公布就對了。"],["顧部長立雄：對，我們總體討論以後有一個確定的方案，我們就會公布，根據這個原因，比如說，你看像委員就指出來，如果各艦隊的部隊士兵編現比，比士官、軍官的編現比低，你要找出原因，如果全部一體加志願役的加給的話，沒有再特別去調增士兵的海勤加給，可能還是沒有對症下藥，我們必須要照顧到基層的士兵，所以就海勤這部分的加給可能要有調整。"],["葉委員元之：部長，這個我懂，因為剛剛都有講過，我們現在講的是什麼時候要實施，我現在抓一個時間，如果我沒有理解錯誤的話，你們已經把這些問題都跟人總討論過了，但是現在要尊重人總公布的時程，如果沒有理解錯誤應該是這樣。"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["葉委員元之：知道問題要知行合一，接下來就是等人總公布了。","我再來問一下，因為我現在看不適服，剛剛講有進有出，不適服確實每一年有逐年減少，111年是3,623人，112年是3,928人，但是到了113年、114年、115年下滑蠻快的，可能跟目前軍中調整一些生活起居的舒適度、管理各方面有關，但還是要提醒一下部長，因為在網路上有看到一些軍人的反應，他說不適服的數量減少可能跟流程被卡住有關，像有人想要調職就先擋，退伍也擋，或者是明明已經跟負責人事的幹部提出了，但偏偏都卡在「沒有約談」，所以沒有辦法往下跑程序，也有人提到報退程序可能拖到一年以上。我不曉得是不是有一個潛規則，就是有下令假設有人要申請提早退伍的話，儘量在程序上慢一點，讓這個數字好看，有沒有這個潛規則？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，一個是個案的問題，一個是從長期趨勢來看，剛剛委員講的是個案，我沒有辦法完全排除有這個可能性，但是如果有發現這種狀況，我們一定會下去處理，但是您剛剛也提到，如果長年來看，已經三年都呈現下降趨勢，那就表示我們相關的一些政策作為是有效的，因為不可能每一個報退的人都被擋，整體每年還是呈現下降趨勢。當然我們國防部立場是如果有個案發現，這要去處理，國防部立場是在政策面上去製造一個讓不適服人數逐年下降的好環境，這是我們國防部應該有的政策。"],["葉委員元之：如果有個案，因為個案多就變通案，所以你也要去了解一下軍中有沒有在報退程序上故意卡人家，儘量就不要卡，對不對？"],["顧部長立雄：這個當然要看哪個單位，都要下去處理。"],["葉委員元之：儘量不要卡。"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["葉委員元之：再來請教一下，國防部有講未來國軍將依「科技取代人力」及「火力取代傳統兵力」兩大方向前進，請問一下科技取代人力是指什麼？因為這個寫得比較抽象一點，火力取代傳統兵力是指什麼？"],["顧部長立雄：我請作計室說明。"],["侯次長嘉倫：委員你好，作計室次長報告。剛剛講的部分，我們針對組織編裝有做調整，區分幾個部分來跟您說明。我們有區分無人系統，運用無人機跟無人載具進行偵查、警戒，還有執行高風險的任務，來減輕人員的負荷。在智慧監偵的部分，我們有裝了相關的監視系統以及AI辨識影像，來降低衛哨的相關人力，在編裝也有做調整。自動化的後勤，導入智慧的倉儲、裝備的管理等等，來減輕重複性的行政作業，也減少後勤人力的壓力，還有相關的智慧指管等等。這些都是我們現在在做的，這些做了之後，可以將我們的組織再精進，將人力還有一些作業優化，這是我們現在在做的五年兵整，且都已經完成相關的規劃。"],["葉委員元之：所以到時候就可以取代部分的人力，減少一些少子化的問題，是這個意思嗎？"],["侯次長嘉倫：應該是說可以取代大部分的人力。"],["葉委員元之：大部分人力，部長……"],["顧部長立雄：科技的運用不是單純的裁減員額，是將這些人力優先配置在我們需要的戰鬥部隊裡面，這在目前是重要的。"],["葉委員元之：部長，還有兩個小問題跟你請教一下，因為我之前看到國防部要修改兵役體位規定，本來智商85以下是不用當兵，現在要調到……"],["顧部長立雄：剛剛已經說明了，這個消息不確實，沒有調。"],["葉委員元之：不是，我還沒講完，你可能是回答別的委員不是回答我，我還沒講完。智商85以下不用當兵，但是你們現在還是要增級，只是把70到85移過去當替代役，可能你們配合內政部的修法，所以70到85還是要先徵兵，徵兵完之後再把他分配到替代役。但是我覺得你們要跟內政部講一下，因為70到85放在軍中，大家也不放心，所以你們覺得不可能，還是要維持智商85以上，可是他們去做替代役也是一樣的狀況，也是會增加很多狀況，比如說他的前輩要去照顧，或者是指令到底能不能接收完整，甚至於因為他們這種特殊狀況去當替代役，有時候人家還會打探他是什麼病情，也會影響到他個人的隱私。這個部分還沒定案，對不對？"],["陳局長元皓：報告委員，這部分來講，我們常備役的智力是沒有調整的。"],["葉委員元之：我知道，現在是你們配合內政部調整，我是問定案了沒有？"],["陳局長元皓：對，這部分定了。"],["葉委員元之：定案了，看看是不是可以跟內政部再討論一下，因為這可能也沒辦法補充多少替代役的人力，但可能會造成更多的問題，是不是可以再跟內政部溝通一下，而且會造成一些徵兵的問題，部長？"],["顧部長立雄：替代役的體位部分，國防部的立場是……當然我們兩個部會都會討論，常備役的體位是由國防部來主責，替代役的部分由內政部，委員的意見，我反映給內政部。"],["葉委員元之：第二個問題，我本來有個提案、有一個想法，我們有很多退伍軍人，不管是軍官或士官，他們退伍以後如果要再就業，其實是可以幫國家做滿多事情的，我舉一個例子，有一個退休飛官，他是原住民，他現在在學校裡面教原住民語言，但是他教了幾堂課之後，很快就超過了他再就業的薪資上限，不能超過3萬8,130元。之前本來有一個提案希望能夠打開這個天花板，後來我跟蠻多軍中前輩討論過，確實很多退伍的軍人，比如說特戰部隊退伍下來，因為他訓練有素，例如可以到一些特種營區去做保全或什麼的工作，但是那個工作又受到薪資上限的規定，所以他們可能就到民間去做私人保全。退伍軍人再就業的薪資天花板實際上限制了很多公家機關招攬退伍軍人的機會，他們不來這邊，其實他們也可以去民間機關，可是我們就喪失這個人才。","我上次提這個案子之後，有很多民進黨立委罵說這個……其實我是想要解決人力的問題，想讓公家機關有更好的退伍軍人及退休軍公教可以再就業，但被扭曲成什麼要復辟肥貓，我根本沒必要復辟肥貓，現在肥貓也是民進黨養，關我什麼事，我就只是想要解決人力的問題，讓優秀的退伍軍人可以再到公部門來服務，不管當教官也好或訓練人也好。","部長，我不知道可不可以請國防部來研究一下？假設我剛剛講的動機目的可以解決一些人力問題，不要讓社會上民進黨那些人扣帽子說是在養肥貓，能不能請國防部研究個平衡點，退伍軍人再就業的薪資天花板要定多高，一方面可以滿足人力的需求，另外一方面又不會被人家認為是雙薪肥貓，部長，這個可不可以幫忙研議一下？"],["藍司長靜婷：跟委員報告一下，我是資源規劃司司長。當初會有這樣子的訂定，其實也是在立法院之前在審議的時候，有討論到雙薪的問題，所以後來訂了這樣的天花板。至於這樣子的需求，我們還是要跟退輔會一起來研商，也要取得社會的共識，來進行相關的處理。以上報告，謝謝。"],["葉委員元之：不用雙薪，肥貓應該都薪水很高，你今天如果說……我剛剛講的，比如說他是退伍的，他去學校講原住民語言，薪水可能4萬塊、5萬塊，而且是憑自己的勞力付出，我覺得這樣子要把人家講成是雙薪肥貓是有點太過了。所以我希望國防部可以定一個標準，就是什麼情況之下是符合社會正常的勞力付出，而什麼情況之下會認為那是肥貓，可以定一些樣態跟標準出來。"],["藍司長靜婷：因為其實這個部分軍公教都有一致的規範，不光是退伍軍人，其實退休的公教人員也是一樣，所以我們可能還是要跟相關部會一起來協商，包括退輔會，要有社會的共識。"],["葉委員元之：可以，你就去跟退輔會協商，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，請國防部研擬一下。","剛剛委員提到替代役的部分，因為入伍訓的時候，其實還是會到新訓中心去訓練，如果智力在70以上到85之間仍會到軍中，可能還是會有影響。這個部分剛剛國防部回應說是假訊息，這也是錯的，因為你們已經在配合可能相關的一些政策方向，所以我們希望回答的時候可以更精準一點，如果對我們整個政策有影響，不管是行政院也好，內政部也好，我們都應該要提出比較專業的看法，如果還需要其他人去照顧他們，可能也沒有這麼多的人力，在這裡先提醒國防部。","已經登記質詢的委員除不在場外，均已發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。本日會議有黃仁委員、林楚茵委員提出書面質詢，請列入紀錄並刊登公報；委員書面及口頭質詢未及答復部分或要求補充資料者，請國防部兩週內以書面答復，委員有約定期限者從其所定。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":222,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-35-26","speakers":["馬文君","王義川","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃建賓","王定宇","王安祥","沈伯洋","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","鍾佳濱","賴士葆","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","葉元之","黃仁","林楚茵"],"page_start":165,"meetingDate":["2026-07-08"],"gazette_id":"1155901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「少子化衝擊下國軍人力資源政策與未來因應規劃」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155901_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}