{"error":false,"id":["170381"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170381,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170381","日期":"2026-07-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-08T13:59:32+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-08T14:07:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:04","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4fafa81be08c821056f3a7475ac2210d8c89d092fec882f4f377f92d0954640426b757c7aa9b9ad15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"13:59:32 - 14:07:36","會議時間":"2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員黃健豪等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員陳超明等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員黃健豪等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員王育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】\n【討論事項第十七案，如經復議則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":6.32534375,"end":15.167843750000003,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":16.75409375,"end":17.74971875,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":17.74971875,"end":18.49221875,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":18.88034375,"end":54.790343750000005,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":54.95909375,"end":78.97221875000001,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":74.66909375,"end":76.93034375,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":78.97221875000001,"end":81.45284375,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":79.17471875000001,"end":79.36034375,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":80.45721875000001,"end":86.02596875,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":86.12721875000001,"end":89.16471875,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":89.55284375000001,"end":96.26909375000001,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":96.52221875000001,"end":112.55346875000001,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":111.76034375,"end":116.26596875000001,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":112.65471875,"end":113.04284375,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":113.81909375000001,"end":113.93721875000001,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":116.26596875000001,"end":116.62034375,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":116.68784375000001,"end":125.20971875000001,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":125.36159375000001,"end":137.56221875,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":125.41221875000001,"end":125.53034375000001,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":137.56221875,"end":138.40596875,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":138.40596875,"end":140.43096875,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":140.59971875000002,"end":152.88471875000002,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":151.66971875000002,"end":157.03596875000002,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":157.03596875000002,"end":170.75534375,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":171.61596875,"end":173.43846875,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":173.77596875,"end":186.48284375,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":183.73221875000002,"end":205.34909375,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":187.14096875,"end":188.99721875,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":206.02409375000002,"end":210.52971875,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":209.36534375000002,"end":209.83784375000002,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":210.41159375,"end":213.53346875000003,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":211.25534375,"end":212.77409375000002,"speaker_score":0.798},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":214.14096875,"end":220.57034375,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":221.70096875000002,"end":224.75534375,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":225.53159375,"end":235.36971875,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":2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楊瓊瑜發言 首先邀請衛福部那如果有問到相關單位因為時間的關係 請你們主動上來謝謝主席 謝謝"},{"start":19.234,"end":35.569,"text":"發生了這麼重大的事情 大家都說食安是不能退讓的一個底線而且牽扯到不管是國軍 不管是學校營養午餐等等那現在本席要請問現在媒體披露的是1300噸"},{"start":38.392,"end":54.474,"text":"的這個量體那可是如果依照目前的這個現象本席研議可能不只這個這個數字那現在到底1000就依現在的數字1300噸的這個量體現在流向流到哪裡去都清楚了嗎"},{"start":55.355,"end":76.687,"text":"根文說明就是說它的流向我們都公佈在我們的網頁上它主要是供應給泰山福壽福茂這個是油品的原型那往下有一些不是用油的型態去販售它可能變成了加工用到加工去所以我們目前現在連那個泡麵的漏罩包都有先連那個沙"},{"start":81.67,"end":95.979,"text":"會去回收 回收主要是油的形態的這個去做回收啦回收主要是油的形態這個過程當中 本先生請問在黃金時期的時候 黃金時間我們衛福部食藥署到底做了哪些事情"},{"start":96.959,"end":114.248,"text":"跟委員說明就是第一步我們先公布了這個流向這一層的油品通通是要下架然後要回收這個就是油的型態的通通是下架或者是回收不能再用禁止再使用通通是下架回收不能再用本席請問"},{"start":115.228,"end":137.158,"text":"在第一時間在第一時間是誰決定要蓋牌不要公布 竟然說了一個名稱說不能公布喔 公布了會引起恐慌喔民眾都問我們到底哪什麼可以吃 什麼不可以吃所以我們一直積極的告訴政府你要公開資訊 透明化民眾有吃的權利 民眾也有選擇權啊誰決定要蓋牌啊"},{"start":140.68,"end":153.49,"text":"所以第一個階段呢那我們食藥署是依據106年的時候食品那個風險評估的執意會所訂出來的下架原則去操作你依照106年再詢問那又是誰把夾彎決定要公佈呢"},{"start":158.214,"end":170.175,"text":"那當然因為這個第一次我們就按照這樣去執行了那麼執行之後呢我們也聽到了一些大家的反應跟焦慮所以我們才回頭再召開"},{"start":171.85,"end":185.659,"text":"專家會議去檢視106年的這個下架原則對本事件是不是應該有調整的這個按照這個科學推估風險的推估去做調整哇 那這個我們政府是慢郎中的喔我們一直說食安是"},{"start":190.482,"end":193.606,"text":"不能退讓的底線耶當我們一直吶喊請你要公佈我們自己有選擇的權利我們有知的權利呀不能一個政府連這個訊息都不告訴民眾啊這是健康風險問題耶"},{"start":206.072,"end":234.397,"text":"有 我們的消息只要一掌握我們就會對外去揭露剛剛我在國防委員會我特別問了國防部長我說到底目前我們國軍的樣態是怎麼樣他說我們總共有29個品項第一個確定是有問題的馬上下架第六 預估有問題的他們也下架29項全部送檢驗但是我說了送檢驗他說要一段時間我說那這一段時間空窗請讓民眾怎麼辦"},{"start":236.437,"end":255.166,"text":"所以我首先要請問今天的那個教育部有來嗎請問請問教育部在校園裡頭你已檢驗出但是政府說風險低在這樣的情況之下教育部你有沒有校園午餐預防的這個停用標準"},{"start":256.729,"end":278.875,"text":"家長都不放心欸我們其實就是依據衛福部他們公告的有疑慮的品項在第一時間透由我們食材登錄平台一發現這些有疑慮的我們立即把這個名單送各縣市政府現在就停用了嗎像我們台中市政府我們有問題就停用沒有那個什麼摻雜20%以下不用下架現在呢"},{"start":279.935,"end":300.561,"text":"是只要有參道就不能用是不是如此有疑慮的品項我們疑慮都請學校都先下架有疑慮的品項全部下架但是你剛剛說了一個啊你說是要衛福部認為有問題你們才要停啊那到底是怎麼回事你們不能兩個機關自己打架啊就是我們公布的這些品項"},{"start":302.27,"end":325.346,"text":"就是我們公佈的我們昨天公佈232項就是搭配這個公佈的232項是包括不管因為有問題就是有自然就是有自然沒有那個20%以下的問題我們用的就是它有設用到的所有的品項都把它公佈了所以學校一定要注意 對軍方也要注意 學校也要注意連鎖店什麼都是民眾大家都是每一天這個會面對到的這個問題"},{"start":330.6,"end":357.814,"text":"所以我還是要請教 到目前為止如果我們只有停滯在行政管理周承督部長你所說你依照106年 現在是民國幾年了你依照106年然後我們一直講要公開透明 理財法橋彎所以我們如果停滯在行政管理的部分那請問 那風險預防我們更要加重 是不是如此"},{"start":358.594,"end":369.361,"text":"所以我們會來檢討這整個從這個事件裡面看到的漏洞我們把它補強所以請教現在我們服務處每天打電話很多我買了這一箱油我可不可以退我發票丟掉了很多的婦女她買油不會買一瓶她大概買一打或者買半瓶或者一箱還有24瓶的我可不可以退"},{"start":383.911,"end":389.979,"text":"這個是政府告訴我是有問題是政府公布有問題的政府要負責任嘛不能把這個風險這個傷害留給民眾啊可不可以退"},{"start":396.087,"end":410.877,"text":"當然現在有發票的都是沒有問題那麼至於說沒有發票的我們來研議看看怎麼樣因為這個市長你講這樣就對了我今天已經拿到你公佈的要下架的郵品我已經實證物證都到了"},{"start":415.2,"end":421.184,"text":"我怎麼可能每一筆發票我都留著如果說一定要我發票才能夠去對這對民眾是不公平的所以你政府已經公告這個有品是有問題的我已經買了政府你要負全責欸你督導不周欸你還要想蓋牌欸不可以如此這個沒有蓋牌的問題啦那現在就是說沒有發票的部分齁我們來找這個業者這個業者要負責任的那看看怎麼樣來退"},{"start":443.937,"end":460.035,"text":"多點時間可以告訴我們這樣子可以退我們來研究這個退的方式你看多點時間可以告訴我們我們要花點時間好沒關係多久時間你讓消費者大家放心嘛不然你一直讓社會恐慌這不好的啊可不可以告訴我"},{"start":463.687,"end":479.759,"text":"我們來研究一下這個退的方式因為有發票的都沒有問題現在就可以退但是實務還在但是沒有這個發票的我們來看看這個後面程序上感恩謝謝顏林方案告訴社會大眾還給社會大眾一個食安的公平謝謝好謝謝楊瓊英文的質詢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T13:59:38.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T13:59:44.620000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，首先邀請衛福部，如果有問到相關單位，因為時間的關係，請你們主動上來，謝謝主席。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T13:59:44.620000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T13:59:47.927000+08:00","text":"楊委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T13:59:47.927000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T13:59:51.234000+08:00","text":"部長你好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T13:59:51.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:00:02.444000+08:00","text":"發生了這麼重大的事情，大家都說食安是不能退讓的一個底線，尤其它牽扯到不管是國軍或是學校營養午餐等等。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:00:04.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:00:25.553000+08:00","text":"本席要請問，現在媒體披露的是1,300噸的量體，可是如果依照目前這個現象來看，本席認為可能不只這個數字，就以現在的數字1,300噸這個量體來看，現在的流向是流到哪裡去？","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:00:26.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:00:26.474000+08:00","text":"都清楚了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:00:28.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:00:46.246000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，它的流向都公布在我們的網頁上，它主要是供應給泰山、福壽、福懋，這個是油品的原型，往下有一些不是用油的型態去販售，它可能變成了加工，用到加工去，所以我們目前……","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:00:46.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:00:48.307000+08:00","text":"現在連泡麵的肉燥包都有，連沙拉都有啊！","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:00:48.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:00:57.572000+08:00","text":"那個不會去回收，回收主要是以油的型態的去做回收。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:00:58.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:01:00.514000+08:00","text":"回收主要是油的型態？對。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:01:00.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:01:07.959000+08:00","text":"在這個過程當中，本席要請問，在黃金時間裡面，衛福部食藥署到底做了哪些事情？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:01:08.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:01:23.806000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，第一步我們先公布了這個流向，這一層的油品統統是要下架，然後要回收，就是油的型態的統統是下架或者是回收，不能再用、禁止再使用。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:01:24.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:01:25.627000+08:00","text":"統統是下架、回收不能再用？對。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:01:26.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:01:32.571000+08:00","text":"本席請問，在第一時間是誰決定要蓋牌、不要公布？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:01:32.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:01:36.592000+08:00","text":"竟然說名稱不能公布，公布了會引起恐慌。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:01:37.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:01:40.654000+08:00","text":"民眾都在問我們到底什麼可以吃、什麼不可以吃？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:01:41.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:01:48.498000+08:00","text":"所以我們一直積極的告訴政府，你要公開資訊、透明化，民眾有知的權利，民眾也有選擇權啊！是、是。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:01:48.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:01:48.958000+08:00","text":"是誰決定要蓋牌？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:01:52.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:02:03.369000+08:00","text":"第一個階段，食藥署是依據106年食品風險評估諮議會所訂出來的下架原則去操作。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:02:04.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:02:05.470000+08:00","text":"你們依照106年的原則，再請問，那又是誰髮夾彎決定要公布呢？","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:02:10.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:02:12.218000+08:00","text":"當然因為這個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:02:12.218000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T14:02:13.218000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:02:12.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:02:35.598000+08:00","text":"第一次我們就按照這樣去執行了，執行之後我們也聽到一些大家的反映跟焦慮，所以我們才回頭再召開專家會議去檢視106年的這個下架原則，對本事件是不是應該按照科學推估、風險的推估去做調整？","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:02:35.598000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T14:02:36.598000+08:00","text":"所以才會有專家會議……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:02:36.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:02:37.239000+08:00","text":"那我們政府是慢郎中喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:02:37.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:02:45.586000+08:00","text":"我們一直說食安是不能退讓的底線，當我們一直吶喊，請你要公布，我們自己有選擇的權利，我們有知的權利，不能一個政府連這個訊息都不告訴民眾，這是健康風險問題！","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:02:58.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:03:02.633000+08:00","text":"有，我們只要一掌握到消息，我們就會對外去揭露。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:03:02.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:03:09.134000+08:00","text":"剛剛我在國防委員會特別問了國防部長，我說，到底目前我們國軍的狀態是怎麼樣？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:03:09.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:03:26.397000+08:00","text":"他說，我們總共有29個品項，第一個，確定是有問題的馬上下架，然後預估有問題的他們也下架，29項全部送檢驗，但是我說了送檢驗，他說要一段時間，我說這段時間的空窗期，民眾怎麼辦？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:03:28.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:03:35.260000+08:00","text":"所以我首先要請問，今天教育部的代表有來嗎？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:03:35.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:03:47.146000+08:00","text":"請問教育部，在校園裡頭你已檢驗出，但是政府說風險低，在這種情況之下，教育部有沒有校園午餐預防的停用標準？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:03:48.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:03:49.489000+08:00","text":"家長都不放心！","quality":1},{"speaker":"戴副署長淑芬","start":"2026-07-08T14:03:50.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:04:03.233000+08:00","text":"我們其實就是依據衛福部他們公告有疑慮的品項，在第一時間透過我們食材登錄平臺，一發現這些有疑慮的，我們立即把這個名單送各縣市政府。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:04:03.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:04:04.333000+08:00","text":"現在就停用了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:04:04.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:04:15.276000+08:00","text":"像我們臺中市政府，只要有問題就停用，沒有那個什麼摻雜20%以下不用下架，現在是只要有摻到就不能用，是不是如此？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"戴副署長淑芬","start":"2026-07-08T14:04:15.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:04:20.057000+08:00","text":"有疑慮的品項我們一律都請學校先下架。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:04:20.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:04:21.658000+08:00","text":"有疑慮的品項全部下架？","quality":1},{"speaker":"戴副署長淑芬","start":"2026-07-08T14:04:21.658000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T14:04:22.658000+08:00","text":"是，全部下架。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:04:22.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:04:27.619000+08:00","text":"但是你剛剛說了，你說要衛福部認為有問題你們才要停，到底是怎麼回事？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:04:28.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:04:29.980000+08:00","text":"你們不能兩個機關自己打架啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:04:31.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:04:32.561000+08:00","text":"就是我們公布的這些品項。","quality":1},{"speaker":"戴副署長淑芬","start":"2026-07-08T14:04:32.561000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T14:04:34.270000+08:00","text":"他公布的有疑慮的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:04:34.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:04:39.534000+08:00","text":"就是我們公布的，我們昨天公布232項，就是搭配這個。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:04:39.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:04:46.078000+08:00","text":"公布的232項是包括不管……因為有問題就是有問題、有致癌就是有致癌，沒有那個20%以下的問題嘛！","quality":0.763},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:04:46.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:04:50.361000+08:00","text":"對，我們用的是就是他有涉用到的所有品項都把它公布了。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:04:50.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:04:52.582000+08:00","text":"所以學校一定要注意。對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:04:52.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:05:14.546000+08:00","text":"軍方也要注意，學校也要注意，連鎖店等等都是民眾每一天會面對到的問題，所以我還是要請教，到目前為止，如果我們只有停滯在行政管理，就誠如部長所說的，你是依照106年的原則，現在是民國幾年？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:05:15.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:05:29.794000+08:00","text":"你依照106年的原則，然後我們一直講要公開透明，你才髮夾彎，所以我們如果停滯在行政管理的部分，那請問，風險預防我們更要加重，是不是如此？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:05:30.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:05:36.158000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們會來檢討整個從這個事件裡面看到的漏洞，我們把它補強，包含……","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:05:36.158000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T14:05:37.158000+08:00","text":"你要補強就要趕快去做，並完整之。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:05:36.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:05:38.079000+08:00","text":"本席要請教，現在我們服務處每天有很多人打電話進來問說，我買了1箱油，我可不可以退？","quality":0.694},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:05:38.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:05:41.341000+08:00","text":"我的發票丟掉了，很多婦女買油不會買1瓶，她大概是買1打或者買半打，或者1箱24瓶的，那我可不可以退？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:05:55.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:06:00.237000+08:00","text":"是政府告訴我這是有問題的，是政府公布有問題的，政府要負責任嘛！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:06:00.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:06:01.539000+08:00","text":"不能把這個風險、這個傷害留給民眾啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:06:01.539000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T14:06:02.539000+08:00","text":"這可不可以退？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:06:01.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:06:01.959000+08:00","text":"是你們公布的，可不可以退？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:06:08.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:06:16.113000+08:00","text":"當然現在有發票的，退都是沒有問題，至於沒有發票的，我們來研議看看怎麼樣來處理，因為這是廠商要負責的。","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:06:16.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:06:17.193000+08:00","text":"部長，你講這樣就對了！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:06:17.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:06:29.221000+08:00","text":"我今天已經拿到你公布要下架的油品，我的實證、物證都已經到了，我怎麼可能每一筆發票都留著，如果一定要有發票才能夠去退，這對民眾是不公平的。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:06:29.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:06:30.822000+08:00","text":"政府已經公告這個油品是有問題的，我已經買了，政府你要負全責！","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:06:30.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:06:31.463000+08:00","text":"你督導不周，你還要想蓋牌，不可以如此！","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:06:31.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:06:33.164000+08:00","text":"沒有蓋牌的問題啦，現在就是說沒有發票的部分，我們來找業者，這是業者要負責任的，看看怎麼樣來退。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:06:55.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:06:57.719000+08:00","text":"多久時間可以告訴我們這樣子可以退？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:06:59.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:07:01.683000+08:00","text":"我們來研究這個退的方式。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:07:01.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:07:04.907000+08:00","text":"你大概多久時間可以告訴我們？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:07:04.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:07:05.988000+08:00","text":"我們要花一點時間。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:07:05.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:07:07.590000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係，多久時間？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:07:07.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:07:09.472000+08:00","text":"你讓消費者大家放心嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:07:10.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:07:11.534000+08:00","text":"不然你一直讓社會恐慌，這是不好的啊！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:07:11.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:07:12.015000+08:00","text":"可不可以告訴我？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:07:15.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:07:26.415000+08:00","text":"我們來研究一下這個退的方式，因為有發票的都沒有問題，現在就可以退，而實物還在，但沒有發票的，我們來看看後面程序上……","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-08T14:07:27.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:07:31.479000+08:00","text":"趕快去研擬方案，告訴社會大眾，還給社會大眾一個食安的公平，謝謝。是、好。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T14:07:31.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:07:31.759000+08:00","text":"謝謝楊瓊瓔委員的質詢。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T14:07:32.259000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T14:07:35.116143+08:00","text":"現在請涂權吉委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1447,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（13時59分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，首先邀請衛福部，如果有問到相關單位，因為時間的關係，請你們主動上來，謝謝主席。"],["石部長崇良：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長你好。發生了這麼重大的事情，大家都說食安是不能退讓的一個底線，尤其它牽扯到不管是國軍或是學校營養午餐等等。本席要請問，現在媒體披露的是1,300噸的量體，可是如果依照目前這個現象來看，本席認為可能不只這個數字，就以現在的數字1,300噸這個量體來看，現在的流向是流到哪裡去？都清楚了嗎？"],["石部長崇良：跟委員說明，它的流向都公布在我們的網頁上，它主要是供應給泰山、福壽、福懋，這個是油品的原型，往下有一些不是用油的型態去販售，它可能變成了加工，用到加工去，所以我們目前……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：現在連泡麵的肉燥包都有，連沙拉都有啊！"],["石部長崇良：那個不會去回收，回收主要是以油的型態的去做回收。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：回收主要是油的型態？"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：在這個過程當中，本席要請問，在黃金時間裡面，衛福部食藥署到底做了哪些事情？"],["石部長崇良：跟委員說明，第一步我們先公布了這個流向，這一層的油品統統是要下架，然後要回收，就是油的型態的統統是下架或者是回收，不能再用、禁止再使用。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：統統是下架、回收不能再用？"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席請問，在第一時間是誰決定要蓋牌、不要公布？竟然說名稱不能公布，公布了會引起恐慌。民眾都在問我們到底什麼可以吃、什麼不可以吃？所以我們一直積極的告訴政府，你要公開資訊、透明化，民眾有知的權利，民眾也有選擇權啊！"],["石部長崇良：是、是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是誰決定要蓋牌？"],["石部長崇良：第一個階段，食藥署是依據106年食品風險評估諮議會所訂出來的下架原則去操作。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們依照106年的原則，再請問，那又是誰髮夾彎決定要公布呢？"],["石部長崇良：當然因為這個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：為什麼？"],["石部長崇良：第一次我們就按照這樣去執行了，執行之後我們也聽到一些大家的反映跟焦慮，所以我們才回頭再召開專家會議去檢視106年的這個下架原則，對本事件是不是應該按照科學推估、風險的推估去做調整？所以才會有專家會議……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那我們政府是慢郎中喔！我們一直說食安是不能退讓的底線，當我們一直吶喊，請你要公布，我們自己有選擇的權利，我們有知的權利，不能一個政府連這個訊息都不告訴民眾，這是健康風險問題！"],["石部長崇良：有，我們只要一掌握到消息，我們就會對外去揭露。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：剛剛我在國防委員會特別問了國防部長，我說，到底目前我們國軍的狀態是怎麼樣？他說，我們總共有29個品項，第一個，確定是有問題的馬上下架，然後預估有問題的他們也下架，29項全部送檢驗，但是我說了送檢驗，他說要一段時間，我說這段時間的空窗期，民眾怎麼辦？所以我首先要請問，今天教育部的代表有來嗎？請問教育部，在校園裡頭你已檢驗出，但是政府說風險低，在這種情況之下，教育部有沒有校園午餐預防的停用標準？家長都不放心！"],["戴副署長淑芬：我們其實就是依據衛福部他們公告有疑慮的品項，在第一時間透過我們食材登錄平臺，一發現這些有疑慮的，我們立即把這個名單送各縣市政府。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：現在就停用了嗎？像我們臺中市政府，只要有問題就停用，沒有那個什麼摻雜20%以下不用下架，現在是只要有摻到就不能用，是不是如此？"],["戴副署長淑芬：有疑慮的品項我們一律都請學校先下架。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有疑慮的品項全部下架？"],["戴副署長淑芬：是，全部下架。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但是你剛剛說了，你說要衛福部認為有問題你們才要停，到底是怎麼回事？你們不能兩個機關自己打架啊！"],["石部長崇良：就是我們公布的這些品項。"],["戴副署長淑芬：他公布的有疑慮的……"],["石部長崇良：就是我們公布的，我們昨天公布232項，就是搭配這個。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：公布的232項是包括不管……因為有問題就是有問題、有致癌就是有致癌，沒有那個20%以下的問題嘛！"],["石部長崇良：對，我們用的是就是他有涉用到的所有品項都把它公布了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以學校一定要注意。"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：軍方也要注意，學校也要注意，連鎖店等等都是民眾每一天會面對到的問題，所以我還是要請教，到目前為止，如果我們只有停滯在行政管理，就誠如部長所說的，你是依照106年的原則，現在是民國幾年？你依照106年的原則，然後我們一直講要公開透明，你才髮夾彎，所以我們如果停滯在行政管理的部分，那請問，風險預防我們更要加重，是不是如此？"],["石部長崇良：對，所以我們會來檢討整個從這個事件裡面看到的漏洞，我們把它補強，包含……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要補強就要趕快去做，並完整之。本席要請教，現在我們服務處每天有很多人打電話進來問說，我買了1箱油，我可不可以退？我的發票丟掉了，很多婦女買油不會買1瓶，她大概是買1打或者買半打，或者1箱24瓶的，那我可不可以退？是政府告訴我這是有問題的，是政府公布有問題的，政府要負責任嘛！不能把這個風險、這個傷害留給民眾啊！這可不可以退？是你們公布的，可不可以退？"],["石部長崇良：當然現在有發票的，退都是沒有問題，至於沒有發票的，我們來研議看看怎麼樣來處理，因為這是廠商要負責的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你講這樣就對了！我今天已經拿到你公布要下架的油品，我的實證、物證都已經到了，我怎麼可能每一筆發票都留著，如果一定要有發票才能夠去退，這對民眾是不公平的。政府已經公告這個油品是有問題的，我已經買了，政府你要負全責！你督導不周，你還要想蓋牌，不可以如此！"],["石部長崇良：沒有蓋牌的問題啦，現在就是說沒有發票的部分，我們來找業者，這是業者要負責任的，看看怎麼樣來退。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：多久時間可以告訴我們這樣子可以退？"],["石部長崇良：我們來研究這個退的方式。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你大概多久時間可以告訴我們？"],["石部長崇良：我們要花一點時間。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，沒關係，多久時間？你讓消費者大家放心嘛！不然你一直讓社會恐慌，這是不好的啊！可不可以告訴我？"],["石部長崇良：我們來研究一下這個退的方式，因為有發票的都沒有問題，現在就可以退，而實物還在，但沒有發票的，我們來看看後面程序上……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：趕快去研擬方案，告訴社會大眾，還給社會大眾一個食安的公平，謝謝。"],["石部長崇良：是、好。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員的質詢。","現在請涂權吉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":242,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-26-18","speakers":["盧縣一","張嘉郡","王鴻薇","蘇清泉","徐巧芯","羅廷瑋","黃健豪","林沛祥","陳菁徽","邱慧洳","王育敏","林月琴","范雲","陳瑩","廖偉翔","林淑芬","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","陳昭姿","劉建國","楊瓊瓔","涂權吉","楊曜","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王正旭","陳冠廷","陳清龍","洪孟楷","徐欣瑩","林德福","傅崐萁","林倩綺","許宇甄","洪毓祥"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2026-07-08"],"gazette_id":"1156101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學\n與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查( 一) 委員廖偉翔等18 人擬具\n「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員蘇清泉等23人擬具\n「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛\n生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條\n條文修正草案」案、( 五) 委員翁曉玲等17 人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草\n案」案、(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案、\n(七)委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員黃健豪等16\n人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛\n生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案、(十)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五\n條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正\n草案」案、(十二)委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(十三)\n委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員陳超明\n等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員黃健豪等23人\n擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十\n六)委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王\n育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156101_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}