{"error":false,"id":["170382"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170382,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170382","日期":"2026-07-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-08T14:07:41+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-08T14:21:31+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:50","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4fafa81be08c821025e99f41d8456f478c89d092fec882f4f377f92d09546404367e716d719082265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"14:07:41 - 14:21:31","會議時間":"2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員黃健豪等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員陳超明等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員黃健豪等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員王育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】\n【討論事項第十七案，如經復議則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":5.58284375,"end":8.78909375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":9.160343750000003,"end":10.814093750000001,"speaker_score":0.796},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":13.345343750000001,"end":14.138468750000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":14.914718750000002,"end":15.302843750000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":16.16346875,"end":20.56784375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":21.090968750000002,"end":23.14971875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":23.58846875,"end":38.42159375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":38.60721875,"end":50.790968750000005,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":45.13784375,"end":45.407843750000005,"speaker_score":0.796},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":47.33159375,"end":47.955968750000004,"speaker_score":0.796},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":51.17909375,"end":67.41284375000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":59.312843750000006,"end":62.31659375,"speaker_score":0.796},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":67.69971875,"end":68.50971875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":67.93596875,"end":68.77971875,"speaker_score":0.796},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":69.06659375000001,"end":72.54284375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":72.15471875,"end":73.06596875000001,"speaker_score":0.796},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":73.36971875,"end":75.81659375000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":77.01471875,"end":88.32096875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":78.01034375,"end":78.61784375,"speaker_score":0.796},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":87.22409375000001,"end":88.65846875000001,"speaker_score":0.796},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":88.45596875000001,"end":89.60346875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":90.10971875,"end":90.54846875000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":90.97034375000001,"end":93.99096875000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":93.99096875000001,"end":94.39596875000001,"speaker_score":0.796},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":94.39596875000001,"end":94.42971875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":94.44659375,"end":97.55159375000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":97.63596875,"end":98.07471875,"speaker_score":0.796},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":98.07471875,"end":98.09159375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":98.32784375,"end":112.13159375000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":108.35159375,"end":108.55409375,"speaker_score":0.796},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":110.95034375,"end":111.08534375,"speaker_score":0.796},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":111.10221875,"end":111.18659375,"speaker_score":0.796},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":112.58721875,"end":114.61221875000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":114.94971875,"end":119.01659375000001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":119.01659375000001,"end":119.06721875000001,"speaker_score":0.796},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"涂委員權吉","start":119.64096875000001,"end":119.97846875,"s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他自己驗其實重點其實就像剛剛講5月13號他已經驗出確定有但是他並沒有去通報那我們委託外部檢驗我們是不是我看一下我們規定是他檢驗的週期最少要半年一次那都有在做嗎"},{"start":160.61,"end":184.693,"text":"他有記錄啦有記錄啊但是呢驗的現在就是說他有驗的合格但是事實上是不是真的是合格我們現在再重新復驗所以可能要了解一下他這個委託外部檢驗到底有沒有半年內都有去做這個檢驗的週期半年有去做嗎而且我們後市場抽驗到底"},{"start":185.649,"end":212.163,"text":"上次最後一次抽菸是什麼時候因為我們 這些步驟到底有沒有落實因為後市場檢驗室有各地方衛生局去在市面上去抽回來驗的所以不見得因為這個中聯的油品是交由他的下游的業者所以沒有直接的中聯的油品在市面上所以沒關係部長我們希望去了解一下尤其這個委託外部檢驗你們自己"},{"start":213.443,"end":233.16,"text":"寫的我們說明這個檢驗週期最少半年一次這些到底沒有落實去做而且他當然最嚴重就是明明驗出驗出這個一級致癌物居然還沒有馬上通報還沒有停止製造沒有停止販售這對民眾的健康實在是非常嚴重的問題"},{"start":234.201,"end":262.434,"text":"而且我們經過這個我們了解像我們商用的桶裝油一般它都是直接銷售到夜市 餐廳 機關甚至一些美食街然後我們看了一下像我們這次雙北跟台中連營養午餐的學校我們公布都有131個學校中標都有進到這個問題的油那我們現在這個商用桶裝油其實市面上"},{"start":263.394,"end":274.961,"text":"是買不到的市面上買不到那但是他直接進到夜市進到餐廳那我請問一下他市面上買不到我們衛福部怎麼去做這個後市長抽院"},{"start":276.94,"end":295.851,"text":"它根本沒有在市面上啊 它就直接進餐廳 進學校 進機關 它就直接拿來使用啊因為它同一批油 它會做成不同的包裝啦所以它有的會到這個後市場去 我們會驗到那另外在學校的部分好像也有那個 也會去抽"},{"start":300.502,"end":329.241,"text":"對我覺得這部分可能要注意喔因為他這個直接出來他沒有到市面上直接就到餐廳到夜市到一些直接加工直接製作甚至他就直接在食材裡面加進去然後我們民眾就直接吃進去了那你這後市場查驗他沒有在市面上你根本沒有辦法查驗嘛所以這部分我們抽菸有包括在裡面後市場查驗的部分包含在學校的這個材料"},{"start":330.612,"end":351.133,"text":"我希望針對這一次你看像連中聯油指這3000萬以上的資本的這種中大型企業而且我們了解它的市佔率高達40%對這社會上影響真的非常大那我們是不是應該針對這些大宗用油的這些"},{"start":352.421,"end":369.478,"text":"工廠是不是應該要加強來查驗他的比例啊對就是說目前我們盤點出來主要是四大上游的這個煉油油脂公司這是四大那現在除了已經停產的就是停工的之外其他三家我們也加強在監測"},{"start":371.004,"end":397.035,"text":"好這部分喔那居然已經發生了而且現在我們還是還沒有確定它的原因到底是原料還是製成對不對對現在等我們其他那個送檢的這些檢體出來之後再來進行其實現在民眾真的是很恐慌啦除了我們現在公布的他們知道以外因為現在真正原因都不知道所以現在國人對這個食安問題喔都感覺喔"},{"start":397.935,"end":413.082,"text":"一點安全感都沒有他們說連不出去吃連自己家裡炒菜都會有這樣子的問題連家裡的食用油都出問題你知道他們對我們的食安問題這部分我們怎麼把關怎麼讓民眾安心"},{"start":414.002,"end":428.139,"text":"所以這兩天我們會把這個二十幾件從它四月到六月底的檢驗完成之後我們就會來公布就讓民眾趕快安心好 那而且我們這第一時間當然我們那時候"},{"start":429.366,"end":451.466,"text":"6月30號爆發第一時間其實第一時間我們大家對於我們的主梗機關意圖蓋牌其實大家覺得是不太滿意啦那後來我們在7月4號才開這個記者會說這個中聯油脂大多沙拉油有一級致癌物然後針對泰山福壽福茂"},{"start":452.807,"end":467.243,"text":"這些全面下架那時候還推出什麼三層揭露在第二層拿去加工的那時候還說經過安全評估不用下架結果到7月6號馬上大轉彎第一次公布的257家這些業者的清單"},{"start":470.366,"end":492.641,"text":"才要求這些下架 結果到7月7號 又說只要有使用到這些問題油的 要全面下架我想了解 這麼這一連串 其實這段時間大家真的是對衛福部對食藥署這些的作為荒腔走板 真的是沒有辦法接受我想了解 為什麼第一時間又蓋牌 然後後來"},{"start":493.562,"end":521.89,"text":"又政策又轉彎說不公佈又公佈然後本來20%以上的公佈後來又說只要含有的公佈這為什麼會政策一直轉彎那到底原因是什麼好 根文說明第一個時間點呢我們是依據食藥署依據106年的這個違規食品事件的下架處理原則層級去執行所以第一層的就第一個直接就介入那麼下架了"},{"start":522.33,"end":550.492,"text":"那麼後面呢是因為我們也考量到那麼這個國人對這個食安的這個憂心所以才又再開這個專家會議就之前的106年所定的這個下架的原則去做討論然後才提出那在安全風險的考量之下那麼重新把原型油跟占20%以上的那麼要求下架才會做這個修訂但是這個"},{"start":551.873,"end":571.328,"text":"執行下去之後才開始有衛生局的反應說這個執行上卻有它的複雜度行政成本也很高所以最後我們才決定雖然這個專家會議是說20%以上下架就好但是我們最後還是決定那麼讓它全部都下架所以不只這些過程你都知道"},{"start":572.128,"end":589.788,"text":"我想了解所以從前面的蓋牌再到記者會前面說第一層的公佈第二層的不用公佈後來再說20%以上的要下架然後後來再說全面下架所以這整個過程部長都是你經過他們討論後你下的決定嗎"},{"start":590.529,"end":618.668,"text":"我都清楚這個過程啦每一次他們要依據這個報告啊依據這個哪一個行政的這個原則這個食藥署都是在依法行政的所以部長都有參與都了解這整個過程當然專家會議我沒有參與啦但是專家會議的結論都讓我知道所以這部分的決定其實部長都是知道的嘛我知道所以大家針對這一部分齁這個整個過程"},{"start":620.731,"end":622.685,"text":"好像我們衛福部"},{"start":623.743,"end":646.134,"text":"食藥署好像都對於這些事情好像完全都不知道怎麼去處理公布以後感覺現在有問題再來改一下現在民意又覺得有意見大家網路各個方面都在反彈民眾對於這個事情都沒辦法接受感覺又再去做調整你看短短的幾天從6月30號爆發7月4號記者會這幾天的過程一變再變"},{"start":651.878,"end":657.428,"text":"會感覺好像我們主管單位都不知道怎麼處理這個事情確實這個過程當中的風險溝通我們應該要再改進這個風險溝通對民眾的風險溝通確實是有改進的空間"},{"start":665.68,"end":683.623,"text":"因為這個對國人食安跟健康影響很大而且據我們了解這個在市面上已經流出去的油品有1300噸那今天聽部長講好像我們目前只有回收43噸對啊 那還這麼多沒有回收的部分你們有想過要怎麼處理"},{"start":684.744,"end":710.427,"text":"那很多有多少是民眾已經吃下去的就像剛剛很多委員講那剩下的你們要打算怎麼處理要回收還是要怎麼處理這些問題好像都沒有去考量到也跟委員說明因為這個油的這個出售呢是比較早它在4月所以它有些這個油呢用到了這個調理去用炒菜啦或者是油炸啦那些油呢就已經"},{"start":711.748,"end":740.735,"text":"丟棄了啦所以它不可能被我們用現在再去回收我們現在所回收的油呢都是那些還沒有使用過的還沒有用的下架或者是在庫房的把它回收那有些是用掉了它炸啦幹什麼這個不太可能去回收這些油所以有些是這樣那有些是用到做加工食品去的那些也不太可能去回收油所以我們回收的是說還以油樣態存在的這些油把它回收"},{"start":741.055,"end":761.095,"text":"我希望部長署長針對這一連串你像這些的過程我們真的要怎麼去處理連這個發生之後當然我們盡快要把這個原因找出來不然現在民眾真的很恐慌到底是這個大豆這原料出問題還是製造製程有出問題那如果真的原因找出來甚至還有很多我們沒有發現的"},{"start":762.216,"end":776.65,"text":"都含有這個一級致癌物所以希望這個盡快來趕快處理那當然後續怎麼亡羊補牢當然也是我們主管單位要怎麼去做那其實這部分我也知道在這死案爆發之前部長"},{"start":777.867,"end":806.341,"text":"也有很多的服選行程那當然因為這食安問題而去停下來我們希望現在還是要以國人的食安跟健康來為主把這些食安問題如何去做完善還有這些下架的機制還有這些抽菸這些等等的過程都希望能夠做一個完善的處理不要說今天公布了一個方法過兩天又改然後今天公布明天又改"},{"start":807.281,"end":829.62,"text":"這個整個過程讓大家對主管單位真的沒有信心希望部長針對這部分還是把其他的閒雜的事情先放開以我們國人的食安 健康為前提這樣好不好一定 一定 國人的健康優先好 那大家加油啦還是要拜託大家還是要照顧我們民眾的健康一定 一定好 謝謝好 謝謝圖先生的發言"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:07:47.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:07:50.315000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請石部長還有姜署長。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T14:07:50.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:07:51.397000+08:00","text":"請石部長、姜署長。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:07:51.397000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T14:07:57.500000+08:00","text":"涂委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:07:57.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:08:22.776000+08:00","text":"部長、署長，請問一下，這次生產這些問題油品的業者中聯油脂，我看了一下，它是資本額3,000萬元以上食用油脂製造工廠，我們也看過你們的說明，針對這一類高資本額的業者，食藥署有三道檢驗的把關程序，第一道就是……","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:08:23.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:08:25.198000+08:00","text":"自主檢驗。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:08:25.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:08:28.301000+08:00","text":"對，定期自主檢驗；第二就是我們委託外部檢驗。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:08:28.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:08:28.941000+08:00","text":"第三方檢驗。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:08:29.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:08:31.343000+08:00","text":"第三才是後市場檢驗。對。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:08:33.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:08:38.309000+08:00","text":"我們看了一下，連南僑，好像在4月下旬他們就知道了。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:08:39.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:08:41.051000+08:00","text":"他們是5月13號驗出超標。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:08:51.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:08:54.440000+08:00","text":"5月13號它驗出苯駢芘超標，這是屬於自主查驗。是。","quality":0.421},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:08:54.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:08:59.522000+08:00","text":"自主查驗出來之後它沒有通報是不是？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:08:59.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:09:00.862000+08:00","text":"對，依法要通報。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:09:00.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:09:09.565000+08:00","text":"對，依法要通報，它這一段時間沒有通報，所以變成他們還繼續在製作，市面上還繼續販賣。對。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:09:09.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:09:14.667000+08:00","text":"所以自主管理，業者沒有盡到他的責任。是。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:09:15.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:09:17.487000+08:00","text":"所以衛福部才對它開罰。是。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:09:19.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:09:29.514000+08:00","text":"我想了解的是，當然前面的第一道、第二道……第一道是我們自主，第二道是委託外部，第三道才是政府的抽驗。是。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:09:29.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:09:37.258000+08:00","text":"當然是我們政府最後的防線，我們想了解中聯油脂在4月份有抽驗過嗎？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:09:38.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:09:39.459000+08:00","text":"它最後一次抽驗是什麼時候？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:09:40.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:10:04.174000+08:00","text":"如果是中聯，他們自己在4月份有做一次自主檢驗，它有驗，不過那一次驗是屬於符合標準，所以這也是我們現在回頭把過去從4月到6月底所有採樣檢體都要再重驗一遍，就是因為當時候他自己驗是合格。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:10:04.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:10:12.542000+08:00","text":"對，他自己驗……其實重點就是剛剛講的，5月13號已經驗出確定有，但是並沒有通報。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:10:12.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:10:19.988000+08:00","text":"有關委託外部檢驗，我看了規定，檢驗週期最少要半年一次，那都有在做嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:10:21.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:10:31.599000+08:00","text":"有，它有紀錄，但現在就是有驗合格，但是事實上是不是真的合格，我們現在再重新複驗。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:10:31.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:10:33.061000+08:00","text":"所以可能要了解一下喔！對。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:10:34.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:10:42.770000+08:00","text":"委託外部檢驗到底有沒有半年就做，有依照檢驗週期半年就去做嗎？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:10:42.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:10:48.190000+08:00","text":"而且後市場的抽驗，到底最後一次抽驗是什麼時候？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:10:49.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:10:51.271000+08:00","text":"這些步驟到底有沒有落實？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:10:51.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:11:07.059000+08:00","text":"因為後市場檢驗是由各地方衛生局去市面上抽回來驗，所以不見得……而中聯油品是交由下游業者，所以沒有直接中聯的油品在市面上，主要是變成泰山、福壽、福懋。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:11:07.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:11:18.927000+08:00","text":"沒關係，部長，我希望去了解一下，尤其委託外部檢驗，你們自己說明檢驗週期最少要半年一次，這些到底有沒有落實去做？是。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:11:21.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:11:34.160000+08:00","text":"當然最嚴重就是明明驗出一級致癌物，居然沒有馬上通報，還沒有停止製造、沒有停止販售，這對民眾的健康、食安是非常嚴重的問題。是。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:11:36.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:11:59.192000+08:00","text":"經過這個我們了解，商用桶裝油一般都是直接銷售到夜市、餐廳、機關，甚至一些美食街，我們看了一下，像這次雙北跟臺中連學校的營養午餐，你們公布有131個學校中標，都有進到有問題的油。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:12:00.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:12:15.761000+08:00","text":"現在商用桶裝油在市面上其實是買不到的，但是它直接進到夜市、進到餐廳，我請問一下，它在市面上買不到，衛福部怎麼去做後市場抽驗？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:12:17.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:12:19.181000+08:00","text":"它根本沒有在市面上啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:12:19.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:12:24.224000+08:00","text":"它就直接進餐廳、進學校、進機關，就直接拿來使用了。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:12:24.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:12:32.608000+08:00","text":"因為同一批油會做成不同的包裝，所以有的到後市場去我們會驗到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:12:33.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:12:36.831000+08:00","text":"另外，在學校的部分也會去抽。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:12:41.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:12:57.793000+08:00","text":"我覺得這部分可能要注意，因為這個是直接出來，並沒有到市面上，直接就到餐廳、到夜市，直接加工、直接製作，甚至就直接加在食材裡面，然後民眾就直接吃進去了！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:12:58.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:13:02.015000+08:00","text":"要做後市場查驗，但它沒有在市面上，你根本沒有辦法查驗。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-07-08T14:13:04.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:13:05.898000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們抽驗有包括在裡面，我們會再加強。","quality":0.45},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:13:06.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:13:10.221000+08:00","text":"後市場查驗的部分有包含學校的材料。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:13:12.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:13:26.467000+08:00","text":"好，這一次連中聯油脂這種3,000萬以上資本額的中大型企業……而且我們了解它的市占率高達40%，對社會影響真的非常大！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:13:27.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:13:36.184000+08:00","text":"那我們是不是應該針對這些大宗用油的工廠，加強查驗比例？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:13:37.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:13:50.478000+08:00","text":"對，目前我們盤點出來主要是四大上游的煉油油脂公司，這是四大，現在除了已經停工停產的之外，其他三家我們也加強在監測。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:13:52.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:14:01.908000+08:00","text":"好，既然已經發生了，而且現在我們還沒有確定它的原因，到底是原料還是製程，對不對？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:14:01.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:14:06.950000+08:00","text":"對，現在等其他送檢的檢體出來之後再進一步做判斷。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:14:07.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:14:34.062000+08:00","text":"現在民眾真的是很恐慌，除了現在公布的他們知道以外，因為現在真正原因都不知道，所以國人對食安問題感覺一點安全感都沒有，他們說不出去吃，連自己家裡炒菜都會有這樣子的問題，連家裡的食用油都出問題，你叫民眾對於怎麼把關食安問題這部分怎麼安心？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:14:35.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:14:45.355000+08:00","text":"這兩天會把二十幾件從4月到6月底的檢驗完成之後，我們就會公布，讓民眾趕快安心。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:14:47.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:15:00.615000+08:00","text":"在6月30號爆發的第一時間，對於主管機關意圖蓋牌，其實大家覺得不太滿意！","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:15:01.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:15:38.791000+08:00","text":"後來在7月4號才開記者會說中聯油脂大豆沙拉油有一級致癌物，泰山、福壽、福懋這些全面下架，那時候還推出「三層揭露」制度，還說第二層拿去加工的經過安全評估不用下架，結果到7月6號就馬上大轉彎，第一次公布的257家業者清單，才要求下架，到7月7號又說只要有使用到這些問題油的要全面下架。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:15:39.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:15:49.799000+08:00","text":"我想了解，經過這一連串，這段時間大家對衛福部、對食藥署這些荒腔走板的作為真的沒辦法接受！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:15:50.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:15:56.583000+08:00","text":"我想了解為什麼第一時間蓋牌，後來政策又轉彎，說不公布又公布？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:15:57.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:16:03.865000+08:00","text":"本來20%以上的公布，後來又說只要含有就公布，為什麼政策會一直轉彎？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:16:04.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:16:05.225000+08:00","text":"到底原因是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:16:06.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:16:22.870000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，第一個時間點食藥署是依據106年違規食品事件下架處理原則層級去執行，所以第一層就是第一個直接揭露，而且下架了。","quality":0.796},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:16:23.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:16:51.312000+08:00","text":"後面是因為我們考量到國人對於食安的憂心，所以才又再開專家會議，就之前（106年）所訂的下架原則討論，然後才提出，在安全風險考量之下，重新把原型油跟占20%以上的都要求下架，才會做這個修訂。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:16:51.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:17:10.366000+08:00","text":"但是這個執行下去之後，才開始有衛生局反映在執行上確有它的複雜度，行政成本也很高，所以最後我們才決定，雖然專家會議是說20%以上的下架就好，但是我們最後還是決定讓它全部都下架，在執行面上會比較容易。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:17:11.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:17:30.788000+08:00","text":"部長，這些過程你都知道，所以我想了解，從前面的蓋牌到記者會說第一層的公布、第二層的不用公布，到後來再說20%以上的要下架，最後又再說全面下架，所以這整個過程，部長，都是經過他們討論之後你下的決定嗎？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:17:31.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:17:44.758000+08:00","text":"我都清楚這個過程，每一次他們依據的報告、依據哪一個行政原則，食藥署都是依法行政。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:17:45.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:17:46.619000+08:00","text":"所以部長都有參與，都了解這整個過程？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:17:47.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:17:52.003000+08:00","text":"當然專家會議我沒有參與，但是專家會議的結論都有讓我知道。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:17:52.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:17:55.385000+08:00","text":"所以這部分的決定，其實部長都是知道的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:17:55.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:17:56.065000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:17:57.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:18:24.393000+08:00","text":"所以大家針對這部分的整個過程，衛福部、食藥署對於這些事情好像完全不知道怎麼去處理，公布以後感覺現在有問題就改一下，現在民意又覺得有意見，大家網路各個方面都在反彈，民眾對於這個事情都沒辦法接受，感覺又再去做調整。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:18:24.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:18:36.004000+08:00","text":"你看，短短的幾天，從6月30號爆發、7月4號記者會，這幾天的過程一變再變，會感覺好像主管單位都不知道怎麼處理這個事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:18:36.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:18:38.428000+08:00","text":"確實這個過程當中的風險溝通，我們應該要再改進，對民眾的風險溝通確實是有改進的空間。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:18:46.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:19:04.603000+08:00","text":"因為這個對國人食安跟健康影響很大，而且據我們了解，在市面上已經流出去的油品有1,300噸，今天聽部長講，好像目前只有回收43噸，還有這麼多沒有回收的部分，你們有想過要怎麼處理？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:19:06.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:19:08.587000+08:00","text":"有多少是民眾已經吃下去的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:19:09.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:19:12.991000+08:00","text":"就像剛剛很多委員講，剩下的你們要打算怎麼處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:19:13.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:19:13.911000+08:00","text":"要回收？","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:19:14.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:19:15.072000+08:00","text":"還是要怎麼處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:19:15.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:19:17.595000+08:00","text":"這些問題好像都沒有去考量到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:19:18.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:19:44.551000+08:00","text":"也跟委員說明，因為油的出售比較早，它是在4月，所以有些油已經調理去炒菜或者是油炸了，那些油就已經丟棄了，所以現在不可能再被我們回收，我們現在所回收的油都是那些還沒有使用過的，還沒有用的下架，或者是在庫房的把它回收！","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:19:45.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:20:00.995000+08:00","text":"有些是用掉了，炸了或什麼，就不太可能去回收這些油，所以有些是這樣，有些是用到加工食品去了，那也不太可能去回收這些油，所以我們回收的是還以油的樣態存在的這些油。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:20:02.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:20:32.105000+08:00","text":"我希望部長及署長針對這一連串……像這些過程真的要好好處理，當然事件發生後我們要儘快將原因找出來，不然現在民眾真的很恐慌，到底是原料使用的大豆出問題還是製程出了問題，如果原因真的找出來，甚至可能還有很多我們沒有發現的食品都含有一級致癌物，所以希望趕快處理，當然後續怎麼亡羊補牢，就看主管單位要怎麼去做。","quality":0.827},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:20:33.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:21:20.852000+08:00","text":"其實我也知道在這次食安問題爆發之前，部長有很多的輔選行程因為食安問題而暫停，我們希望現在還是要以國人的食安與健康為主，包括這些食安問題如何做得完善、下架的機制，還有抽驗等等的過程，都希望能夠做完善的處理，不要說今天公布了一個方法，過兩天又改，或者今天公布、明天又改，這整個過程讓大家對主管單位真的沒有信心，針對這個部分，希望部長還是把其他的閒雜事情先放開，以我們國人的食安健康為前提，好不好？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:21:20.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:21:22.733000+08:00","text":"一定、一定，國人的健康優先。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-07-08T14:21:23.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:21:27.697000+08:00","text":"好，大家加油，還是要拜託大家照顧民眾的健康。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:21:27.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:21:29.719000+08:00","text":"一定、一定，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席（王委員正旭代）","start":"2026-07-08T14:21:30.219000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T14:21:35.361857+08:00","text":"謝謝涂權吉委員的發言，也謝謝部長的回應。","quality":0.278},{"speaker":"主席（王委員正旭代）","start":"2026-07-08T14:21:35.661857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T14:21:39.376143+08:00","text":"下一位我們請盧縣一召委發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1499,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（14時7分）謝謝主席，請石部長還有姜署長。"],["主席：請石部長、姜署長。"],["石部長崇良：涂委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：部長、署長，請問一下，這次生產這些問題油品的業者中聯油脂，我看了一下，它是資本額3,000萬元以上食用油脂製造工廠，我們也看過你們的說明，針對這一類高資本額的業者，食藥署有三道檢驗的把關程序，第一道就是……"],["石部長崇良：自主檢驗。"],["涂委員權吉：對，定期自主檢驗；第二就是我們委託外部檢驗。"],["石部長崇良：第三方檢驗。"],["涂委員權吉：第三才是後市場檢驗。"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["涂委員權吉：我們看了一下，連南僑，好像在4月下旬他們就知道了。"],["石部長崇良：他們是5月13號驗出超標。"],["涂委員權吉：5月13號它驗出苯駢芘超標，這是屬於自主查驗。"],["石部長崇良：是。"],["涂委員權吉：自主查驗出來之後它沒有通報是不是？"],["石部長崇良：對，依法要通報。"],["涂委員權吉：對，依法要通報，它這一段時間沒有通報，所以變成他們還繼續在製作，市面上還繼續販賣。"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["涂委員權吉：所以自主管理，業者沒有盡到他的責任。"],["石部長崇良：是。"],["涂委員權吉：所以衛福部才對它開罰。"],["石部長崇良：是。"],["涂委員權吉：我想了解的是，當然前面的第一道、第二道……第一道是我們自主，第二道是委託外部，第三道才是政府的抽驗。"],["石部長崇良：是。"],["涂委員權吉：當然是我們政府最後的防線，我們想了解中聯油脂在4月份有抽驗過嗎？它最後一次抽驗是什麼時候？"],["石部長崇良：如果是中聯，他們自己在4月份有做一次自主檢驗，它有驗，不過那一次驗是屬於符合標準，所以這也是我們現在回頭把過去從4月到6月底所有採樣檢體都要再重驗一遍，就是因為當時候他自己驗是合格。"],["涂委員權吉：對，他自己驗……其實重點就是剛剛講的，5月13號已經驗出確定有，但是並沒有通報。有關委託外部檢驗，我看了規定，檢驗週期最少要半年一次，那都有在做嗎？"],["石部長崇良：有，它有紀錄，但現在就是有驗合格，但是事實上是不是真的合格，我們現在再重新複驗。"],["涂委員權吉：所以可能要了解一下喔！"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["涂委員權吉：委託外部檢驗到底有沒有半年就做，有依照檢驗週期半年就去做嗎？而且後市場的抽驗，到底最後一次抽驗是什麼時候？這些步驟到底有沒有落實？"],["石部長崇良：因為後市場檢驗是由各地方衛生局去市面上抽回來驗，所以不見得……而中聯油品是交由下游業者，所以沒有直接中聯的油品在市面上，主要是變成泰山、福壽、福懋。"],["涂委員權吉：沒關係，部長，我希望去了解一下，尤其委託外部檢驗，你們自己說明檢驗週期最少要半年一次，這些到底有沒有落實去做？"],["石部長崇良：是。"],["涂委員權吉：當然最嚴重就是明明驗出一級致癌物，居然沒有馬上通報，還沒有停止製造、沒有停止販售，這對民眾的健康、食安是非常嚴重的問題。"],["石部長崇良：是。"],["涂委員權吉：經過這個我們了解，商用桶裝油一般都是直接銷售到夜市、餐廳、機關，甚至一些美食街，我們看了一下，像這次雙北跟臺中連學校的營養午餐，你們公布有131個學校中標，都有進到有問題的油。現在商用桶裝油在市面上其實是買不到的，但是它直接進到夜市、進到餐廳，我請問一下，它在市面上買不到，衛福部怎麼去做後市場抽驗？它根本沒有在市面上啊！它就直接進餐廳、進學校、進機關，就直接拿來使用了。"],["石部長崇良：因為同一批油會做成不同的包裝，所以有的到後市場去我們會驗到。另外，在學校的部分也會去抽。"],["涂委員權吉：我覺得這部分可能要注意，因為這個是直接出來，並沒有到市面上，直接就到餐廳、到夜市，直接加工、直接製作，甚至就直接加在食材裡面，然後民眾就直接吃進去了！要做後市場查驗，但它沒有在市面上，你根本沒有辦法查驗。"],["姜署長至剛：報告委員，我們抽驗有包括在裡面，我們會再加強。"],["石部長崇良：後市場查驗的部分有包含學校的材料。"],["涂委員權吉：好，這一次連中聯油脂這種3,000萬以上資本額的中大型企業……而且我們了解它的市占率高達40%，對社會影響真的非常大！那我們是不是應該針對這些大宗用油的工廠，加強查驗比例？"],["石部長崇良：對，目前我們盤點出來主要是四大上游的煉油油脂公司，這是四大，現在除了已經停工停產的之外，其他三家我們也加強在監測。"],["涂委員權吉：好，既然已經發生了，而且現在我們還沒有確定它的原因，到底是原料還是製程，對不對？"],["石部長崇良：對，現在等其他送檢的檢體出來之後再進一步做判斷。"],["涂委員權吉：現在民眾真的是很恐慌，除了現在公布的他們知道以外，因為現在真正原因都不知道，所以國人對食安問題感覺一點安全感都沒有，他們說不出去吃，連自己家裡炒菜都會有這樣子的問題，連家裡的食用油都出問題，你叫民眾對於怎麼把關食安問題這部分怎麼安心？"],["石部長崇良：這兩天會把二十幾件從4月到6月底的檢驗完成之後，我們就會公布，讓民眾趕快安心。"],["涂委員權吉：好。在6月30號爆發的第一時間，對於主管機關意圖蓋牌，其實大家覺得不太滿意！後來在7月4號才開記者會說中聯油脂大豆沙拉油有一級致癌物，泰山、福壽、福懋這些全面下架，那時候還推出「三層揭露」制度，還說第二層拿去加工的經過安全評估不用下架，結果到7月6號就馬上大轉彎，第一次公布的257家業者清單，才要求下架，到7月7號又說只要有使用到這些問題油的要全面下架。我想了解，經過這一連串，這段時間大家對衛福部、對食藥署這些荒腔走板的作為真的沒辦法接受！我想了解為什麼第一時間蓋牌，後來政策又轉彎，說不公布又公布？本來20%以上的公布，後來又說只要含有就公布，為什麼政策會一直轉彎？到底原因是什麼？"],["石部長崇良：跟委員說明，第一個時間點食藥署是依據106年違規食品事件下架處理原則層級去執行，所以第一層就是第一個直接揭露，而且下架了。後面是因為我們考量到國人對於食安的憂心，所以才又再開專家會議，就之前（106年）所訂的下架原則討論，然後才提出，在安全風險考量之下，重新把原型油跟占20%以上的都要求下架，才會做這個修訂。但是這個執行下去之後，才開始有衛生局反映在執行上確有它的複雜度，行政成本也很高，所以最後我們才決定，雖然專家會議是說20%以上的下架就好，但是我們最後還是決定讓它全部都下架，在執行面上會比較容易。"],["涂委員權吉：部長，這些過程你都知道，所以我想了解，從前面的蓋牌到記者會說第一層的公布、第二層的不用公布，到後來再說20%以上的要下架，最後又再說全面下架，所以這整個過程，部長，都是經過他們討論之後你下的決定嗎？"],["石部長崇良：我都清楚這個過程，每一次他們依據的報告、依據哪一個行政原則，食藥署都是依法行政。"],["涂委員權吉：所以部長都有參與，都了解這整個過程？"],["石部長崇良：當然專家會議我沒有參與，但是專家會議的結論都有讓我知道。"],["涂委員權吉：所以這部分的決定，其實部長都是知道的？"],["石部長崇良：我知道。"],["涂委員權吉：所以大家針對這部分的整個過程，衛福部、食藥署對於這些事情好像完全不知道怎麼去處理，公布以後感覺現在有問題就改一下，現在民意又覺得有意見，大家網路各個方面都在反彈，民眾對於這個事情都沒辦法接受，感覺又再去做調整。你看，短短的幾天，從6月30號爆發、7月4號記者會，這幾天的過程一變再變，會感覺好像主管單位都不知道怎麼處理這個事情。"],["石部長崇良：確實這個過程當中的風險溝通，我們應該要再改進，對民眾的風險溝通確實是有改進的空間。"],["涂委員權吉：因為這個對國人食安跟健康影響很大，而且據我們了解，在市面上已經流出去的油品有1,300噸，今天聽部長講，好像目前只有回收43噸，還有這麼多沒有回收的部分，你們有想過要怎麼處理？有多少是民眾已經吃下去的？就像剛剛很多委員講，剩下的你們要打算怎麼處理？要回收？還是要怎麼處理？這些問題好像都沒有去考量到。"],["石部長崇良：也跟委員說明，因為油的出售比較早，它是在4月，所以有些油已經調理去炒菜或者是油炸了，那些油就已經丟棄了，所以現在不可能再被我們回收，我們現在所回收的油都是那些還沒有使用過的，還沒有用的下架，或者是在庫房的把它回收！有些是用掉了，炸了或什麼，就不太可能去回收這些油，所以有些是這樣，有些是用到加工食品去了，那也不太可能去回收這些油，所以我們回收的是還以油的樣態存在的這些油。"],["涂委員權吉：我希望部長及署長針對這一連串……像這些過程真的要好好處理，當然事件發生後我們要儘快將原因找出來，不然現在民眾真的很恐慌，到底是原料使用的大豆出問題還是製程出了問題，如果原因真的找出來，甚至可能還有很多我們沒有發現的食品都含有一級致癌物，所以希望趕快處理，當然後續怎麼亡羊補牢，就看主管單位要怎麼去做。其實我也知道在這次食安問題爆發之前，部長有很多的輔選行程因為食安問題而暫停，我們希望現在還是要以國人的食安與健康為主，包括這些食安問題如何做得完善、下架的機制，還有抽驗等等的過程，都希望能夠做完善的處理，不要說今天公布了一個方法，過兩天又改，或者今天公布、明天又改，這整個過程讓大家對主管單位真的沒有信心，針對這個部分，希望部長還是把其他的閒雜事情先放開，以我們國人的食安健康為前提，好不好？"],["石部長崇良：一定、一定，國人的健康優先。"],["涂委員權吉：好，大家加油，還是要拜託大家照顧民眾的健康。"],["石部長崇良：一定、一定，謝謝。"],["主席（王委員正旭代）：謝謝涂權吉委員的發言，也謝謝部長的回應。","下一位我們請盧縣一召委發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":242,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-26-18","speakers":["盧縣一","張嘉郡","王鴻薇","蘇清泉","徐巧芯","羅廷瑋","黃健豪","林沛祥","陳菁徽","邱慧洳","王育敏","林月琴","范雲","陳瑩","廖偉翔","林淑芬","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","陳昭姿","劉建國","楊瓊瓔","涂權吉","楊曜","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王正旭","陳冠廷","陳清龍","洪孟楷","徐欣瑩","林德福","傅崐萁","林倩綺","許宇甄","洪毓祥"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2026-07-08"],"gazette_id":"1156101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學\n與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查( 一) 委員廖偉翔等18 人擬具\n「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員蘇清泉等23人擬具\n「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛\n生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條\n條文修正草案」案、( 五) 委員翁曉玲等17 人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草\n案」案、(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案、\n(七)委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員黃健豪等16\n人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛\n生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案、(十)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五\n條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正\n草案」案、(十二)委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(十三)\n委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員陳超明\n等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員黃健豪等23人\n擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十\n六)委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王\n育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156101_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}