{"error":false,"id":["170382"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170382,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170382","日期":"2026-07-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-08T14:07:41+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-08T14:21:31+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:50","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4fafa81be08c821025e99f41d8456f478c89d092fec882f4f377f92d09546404367e716d719082265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"14:07:41 - 14:21:31","會議時間":"2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員黃健豪等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員陳超明等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員黃健豪等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員王育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】\n【討論事項第十七案，如經復議則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.58284375,"end":8.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.160343750000003,"end":10.814093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.345343750000001,"end":14.138468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.914718750000002,"end":15.302843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.16346875,"end":20.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.090968750000002,"end":23.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.58846875,"end":38.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.60721875,"end":50.790968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.13784375,"end":45.407843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.33159375,"end":47.955968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.17909375,"end":67.41284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.312843750000006,"end":62.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.69971875,"end":68.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.93596875,"end":68.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.06659375000001,"end":72.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.15471875,"end":73.06596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.36971875,"end":75.81659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.01471875,"end":88.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.01034375,"end":78.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.22409375000001,"end":88.65846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.45596875000001,"end":89.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.10971875,"end":90.54846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.97034375000001,"end":93.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.99096875000001,"end":94.39596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.39596875000001,"end":94.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.44659375,"end":97.55159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.63596875,"end":98.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.07471875,"end":98.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.32784375,"end":112.13159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.35159375,"end":108.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.95034375,"end":111.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.10221875,"end":111.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.58721875,"end":114.61221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.94971875,"end":119.01659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.01659375000001,"end":119.06721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.64096875000001,"end":119.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.97846875,"end":141.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.63346875000002,"end":141.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.76409375,"end":141.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.81471875,"end":142.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.03409375,"end":142.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.13534375,"end":142.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.96221875,"end":159.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.97909375,"end":143.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.35221875000002,"end":159.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.93846875,"end":160.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.96784375000001,"end":165.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.01346875000002,"end":166.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.08096875,"end":168.42659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.00034375,"end":172.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.03784375,"end":176.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.08346875,"end":178.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.56846875000002,"end":181.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.55534375000002,"end":184.87971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.58846875,"end":189.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.85784375,"end":189.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.87471875,"end":189.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.97596875000002,"end":208.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.44596875000002,"end":212.43659375000001},{"speake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謝謝主席 那請我們石部長還有我們江署長我請石部長 江署長好"},{"start":16.5,"end":40.055,"text":"部長署長請問一下我們這一次生產這些問題油品的業者中聯油脂我們看了一下它是資本額3000萬以上的使用油脂的製造工廠我們也看過你們的說明針對這一類高資本額的業者我們食藥署有三道檢驗的把關程序"},{"start":40.655,"end":60.051,"text":"那第一道就是我們自主檢驗對 定期自主檢驗嘛第二就是我們委託外部檢驗第三方檢驗然後第三才是後市場檢驗嘛那我們看了一下南橋其實好像在4月下旬他們就知道了5月13號是5月13號他驗出這個我們的本片比超標"},{"start":69.119,"end":96.487,"text":"那他這個是屬於第一個自主查驗那自主查驗出來之後他沒有通報對 依法要通報對 依法要通報所以他這段時間沒有通報所以變成說他們還繼續在製作我們市面上還繼續販賣所以這部分所以這個自主管理業者的責任他沒有盡到所以我們才衛福部才對他開罰"},{"start":98.41,"end":118.479,"text":"那我想了解我們當然前面第一道第二道第一道是我們自主嘛第二道是委託外部那我們第三道才是我們政府的抽驗那當然是我們政府的最後的防線那我們想了解那個我們中聯郵址他在四月份有抽驗過嗎還是他最後一次抽驗是什麼時候"},{"start":119.719,"end":141.373,"text":"如果是中聯他們自己在四月份有一次他的自主檢驗他有驗不過那一次驗是屬於符合那個標準所以這個也是我們現在回頭把它過去從四月到六月底的所有的這個採樣檢體我們都要再重驗一遍就是因為他當時候驗是"},{"start":142.273,"end":158.988,"text":"他自己驗是合格對 他自己驗其實重點其實就像剛剛講5月13號他已經驗出確定有但是他並沒有去通報那我們委託外部檢驗我們是不是我看一下我們規定是他檢驗的週期最少要半年一次那都有在做嗎"},{"start":160.61,"end":184.693,"text":"他有記錄啦有記錄啊但是呢驗的現在就是說他有驗的合格但是事實上是不是真的是合格我們現在再重新復驗所以可能要了解一下他這個委託外部檢驗到底有沒有半年內都有去做這個檢驗的週期半年有去做嗎而且我們後市場抽驗到底"},{"start":185.649,"end":212.163,"text":"上次最後一次抽菸是什麼時候因為我們 這些步驟到底有沒有落實因為後市場檢驗室有各地方衛生局去在市面上去抽回來驗的所以不見得因為這個中聯的油品是交由他的下游的業者所以沒有直接的中聯的油品在市面上所以沒關係部長我們希望去了解一下尤其這個委託外部檢驗你們自己"},{"start":213.443,"end":233.16,"text":"寫的我們說明這個檢驗週期最少半年一次這些到底沒有落實去做而且他當然最嚴重就是明明驗出驗出這個一級致癌物居然還沒有馬上通報還沒有停止製造沒有停止販售這對民眾的健康實在是非常嚴重的問題"},{"start":234.201,"end":262.434,"text":"而且我們經過這個我們了解像我們商用的桶裝油一般它都是直接銷售到夜市 餐廳 機關甚至一些美食街然後我們看了一下像我們這次雙北跟台中連營養午餐的學校我們公布都有131個學校中標都有進到這個問題的油那我們現在這個商用桶裝油其實市面上"},{"start":263.394,"end":274.961,"text":"是買不到的市面上買不到那但是他直接進到夜市進到餐廳那我請問一下他市面上買不到我們衛福部怎麼去做這個後市長抽院"},{"start":276.94,"end":295.851,"text":"它根本沒有在市面上啊 它就直接進餐廳 進學校 進機關 它就直接拿來使用啊因為它同一批油 它會做成不同的包裝啦所以它有的會到這個後市場去 我們會驗到那另外在學校的部分好像也有那個 也會去抽"},{"start":300.502,"end":329.241,"text":"對我覺得這部分可能要注意喔因為他這個直接出來他沒有到市面上直接就到餐廳到夜市到一些直接加工直接製作甚至他就直接在食材裡面加進去然後我們民眾就直接吃進去了那你這後市場查驗他沒有在市面上你根本沒有辦法查驗嘛所以這部分我們抽菸有包括在裡面後市場查驗的部分包含在學校的這個材料"},{"start":330.612,"end":351.133,"text":"我希望針對這一次你看像連中聯油指這3000萬以上的資本的這種中大型企業而且我們了解它的市佔率高達40%對這社會上影響真的非常大那我們是不是應該針對這些大宗用油的這些"},{"start":352.421,"end":369.478,"text":"工廠是不是應該要加強來查驗他的比例啊對就是說目前我們盤點出來主要是四大上游的這個煉油油脂公司這是四大那現在除了已經停產的就是停工的之外其他三家我們也加強在監測"},{"start":371.004,"end":397.035,"text":"好這部分喔那居然已經發生了而且現在我們還是還沒有確定它的原因到底是原料還是製成對不對對現在等我們其他那個送檢的這些檢體出來之後再來進行其實現在民眾真的是很恐慌啦除了我們現在公布的他們知道以外因為現在真正原因都不知道所以現在國人對這個食安問題喔都感覺喔"},{"start":397.935,"end":413.082,"text":"一點安全感都沒有他們說連不出去吃連自己家裡炒菜都會有這樣子的問題連家裡的食用油都出問題你知道他們對我們的食安問題這部分我們怎麼把關怎麼讓民眾安心"},{"start":414.002,"end":428.139,"text":"所以這兩天我們會把這個二十幾件從它四月到六月底的檢驗完成之後我們就會來公布就讓民眾趕快安心好 那而且我們這第一時間當然我們那時候"},{"start":429.366,"end":451.466,"text":"6月30號爆發第一時間其實第一時間我們大家對於我們的主梗機關意圖蓋牌其實大家覺得是不太滿意啦那後來我們在7月4號才開這個記者會說這個中聯油脂大多沙拉油有一級致癌物然後針對泰山福壽福茂"},{"start":452.807,"end":467.243,"text":"這些全面下架那時候還推出什麼三層揭露在第二層拿去加工的那時候還說經過安全評估不用下架結果到7月6號馬上大轉彎第一次公布的257家這些業者的清單"},{"start":470.366,"end":492.641,"text":"才要求這些下架 結果到7月7號 又說只要有使用到這些問題油的 要全面下架我想了解 這麼這一連串 其實這段時間大家真的是對衛福部對食藥署這些的作為荒腔走板 真的是沒有辦法接受我想了解 為什麼第一時間又蓋牌 然後後來"},{"start":493.562,"end":521.89,"text":"又政策又轉彎說不公佈又公佈然後本來20%以上的公佈後來又說只要含有的公佈這為什麼會政策一直轉彎那到底原因是什麼好 根文說明第一個時間點呢我們是依據食藥署依據106年的這個違規食品事件的下架處理原則層級去執行所以第一層的就第一個直接就介入那麼下架了"},{"start":522.33,"end":550.492,"text":"那麼後面呢是因為我們也考量到那麼這個國人對這個食安的這個憂心所以才又再開這個專家會議就之前的106年所定的這個下架的原則去做討論然後才提出那在安全風險的考量之下那麼重新把原型油跟占20%以上的那麼要求下架才會做這個修訂但是這個"},{"start":551.873,"end":571.328,"text":"執行下去之後才開始有衛生局的反應說這個執行上卻有它的複雜度行政成本也很高所以最後我們才決定雖然這個專家會議是說20%以上下架就好但是我們最後還是決定那麼讓它全部都下架所以不只這些過程你都知道"},{"start":572.128,"end":589.788,"text":"我想了解所以從前面的蓋牌再到記者會前面說第一層的公佈第二層的不用公佈後來再說20%以上的要下架然後後來再說全面下架所以這整個過程部長都是你經過他們討論後你下的決定嗎"},{"start":590.529,"end":618.668,"text":"我都清楚這個過程啦每一次他們要依據這個報告啊依據這個哪一個行政的這個原則這個食藥署都是在依法行政的所以部長都有參與都了解這整個過程當然專家會議我沒有參與啦但是專家會議的結論都讓我知道所以這部分的決定其實部長都是知道的嘛我知道所以大家針對這一部分齁這個整個過程"},{"start":620.731,"end":622.685,"text":"好像我們衛福部"},{"start":623.743,"end":646.134,"text":"食藥署好像都對於這些事情好像完全都不知道怎麼去處理公布以後感覺現在有問題再來改一下現在民意又覺得有意見大家網路各個方面都在反彈民眾對於這個事情都沒辦法接受感覺又再去做調整你看短短的幾天從6月30號爆發7月4號記者會這幾天的過程一變再變"},{"start":651.878,"end":657.428,"text":"會感覺好像我們主管單位都不知道怎麼處理這個事情確實這個過程當中的風險溝通我們應該要再改進這個風險溝通對民眾的風險溝通確實是有改進的空間"},{"start":665.68,"end":683.623,"text":"因為這個對國人食安跟健康影響很大而且據我們了解這個在市面上已經流出去的油品有1300噸那今天聽部長講好像我們目前只有回收43噸對啊 那還這麼多沒有回收的部分你們有想過要怎麼處理"},{"start":684.744,"end":710.427,"text":"那很多有多少是民眾已經吃下去的就像剛剛很多委員講那剩下的你們要打算怎麼處理要回收還是要怎麼處理這些問題好像都沒有去考量到也跟委員說明因為這個油的這個出售呢是比較早它在4月所以它有些這個油呢用到了這個調理去用炒菜啦或者是油炸啦那些油呢就已經"},{"start":711.748,"end":740.735,"text":"丟棄了啦所以它不可能被我們用現在再去回收我們現在所回收的油呢都是那些還沒有使用過的還沒有用的下架或者是在庫房的把它回收那有些是用掉了它炸啦幹什麼這個不太可能去回收這些油所以有些是這樣那有些是用到做加工食品去的那些也不太可能去回收油所以我們回收的是說還以油樣態存在的這些油把它回收"},{"start":741.055,"end":761.095,"text":"我希望部長署長針對這一連串你像這些的過程我們真的要怎麼去處理連這個發生之後當然我們盡快要把這個原因找出來不然現在民眾真的很恐慌到底是這個大豆這原料出問題還是製造製程有出問題那如果真的原因找出來甚至還有很多我們沒有發現的"},{"start":762.216,"end":776.65,"text":"都含有這個一級致癌物所以希望這個盡快來趕快處理那當然後續怎麼亡羊補牢當然也是我們主管單位要怎麼去做那其實這部分我也知道在這死案爆發之前部長"},{"start":777.867,"end":806.341,"text":"也有很多的服選行程那當然因為這食安問題而去停下來我們希望現在還是要以國人的食安跟健康來為主把這些食安問題如何去做完善還有這些下架的機制還有這些抽菸這些等等的過程都希望能夠做一個完善的處理不要說今天公布了一個方法過兩天又改然後今天公布明天又改"},{"start":807.281,"end":829.62,"text":"這個整個過程讓大家對主管單位真的沒有信心希望部長針對這部分還是把其他的閒雜的事情先放開以我們國人的食安 健康為前提這樣好不好一定 一定 國人的健康優先好 那大家加油啦還是要拜託大家還是要照顧我們民眾的健康一定 一定好 謝謝好 謝謝圖先生的發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}