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15:05:30","會議時間":"2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員黃健豪等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員陳超明等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員黃健豪等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員王育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】\n【討論事項第十七案，如經復議則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":4.03034375,"end":4.90784375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":5.16096875,"end":5.76846875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":6.072218750000001,"end":7.810343750000001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":7.995968750000001,"end":8.805968750000002,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":12.079718750000001,"end":13.41284375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":13.615343750000001,"end":15.910343750000003,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":16.70346875,"end":17.85096875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":18.32346875,"end":30.473468750000002,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":30.96284375,"end":34.034093750000004,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":35.45159375,"end":35.51909375,"speaker_score":0.806},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":35.51909375,"end":37.20659375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":37.47659375,"end":45.188468750000006,"speaker_score":0.806},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":45.728468750000005,"end":46.85909375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":47.01096875,"end":49.37346875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":50.72346875,"end":58.165343750000005,"speaker_score":0.806},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":60.257843750000006,"end":64.59471875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":65.06721875000001,"end":71.51346875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":72.86346875000001,"end":74.77034375000001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":75.22596875,"end":76.42409375000001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":77.75721875,"end":81.06471875000001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":81.52034375000001,"end":85.89096875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":86.34659375000001,"end":87.49409375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":87.62909375000001,"end":88.47284375000001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":88.59096875,"end":89.94096875000001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":90.46409375,"end":97.48409375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":98.68221875,"end":106.68096875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":107.92971875,"end":108.41909375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":108.80721875,"end":113.54909375000001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":114.37596875000001,"end":117.56534375000001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":117.97034375000001,"end":120.34971875000001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":121.78409375000001,"end":122.98221875,"speaker_score":0.806},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":124.31534375000001,"end":126.20534375000001,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":128.28096875,"end":129.22596875000002,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":130.10346875000002,"end":131.99346875,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":132.61784375000002,"end":137.81534375,"speaker_score":0.925},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":138.507218750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對不對所以同意嘛就是說你可能會有繼續進一步的要再公布的所以這個事件確實已經是越滾越大那我請問一下部長我們現在所有的事情從你6月30號接受到通報之後請問一下我們行政院長卓榮泰院長有全程掌握嗎"},{"start":295.931,"end":311.985,"text":"我們都有跟院長報告這個目前的辦理的情形包含他也指示這個要擴大去查驗所以我們才會把所有的過去的這個中聯的郵品每一批都重新驗好 所以院長全盤掌握院長沒有在狀況外嘛 對不對"},{"start":317.147,"end":327.23,"text":"好 院長沒有在狀況外 所以我們現在外界所批評跟質疑你們一遍再遍 甚至有包含蓋牌的問題 髮夾彎的問題所以院長也全程掌握"},{"start":332.892,"end":352.74,"text":"我們這個沒有什麼蓋牌就是我們都按照過去所定下來的這些行政規則在執行但是當中因為這個事件的特殊性我們再召開專家會議再來做一些調整那麼這些都是按照證據查到哪裡的時候事實發現到哪裡做的調整所以"},{"start":356.341,"end":380.637,"text":"到目前為止部長不認為你們有任何需要負行政責任或者政治責任的嗎我們第一刻呢就已經把油品的部分都是要求要下架了那是只是在處理油品衍生的這個再製品就過去而言它是不需要下架過去訂的標準是不需要的那我們才就這個事件上再重新檢視部長我直接說啊問題油要下架出問題的官員也要下架"},{"start":386.782,"end":405.118,"text":"我有說過 到目前為止你現在 剛才我講 你說你願意為這整個程序為這整個跟外界的溝通你願意為這個事情道歉可是在這之前沒有人道歉耶好像這個事情活該就發生這樣的事情啦沒有人道歉"},{"start":405.899,"end":412.643,"text":"沒有人下台也沒有人負責以現階段來講因為看起來他的整個問題又有事態有擴大因為又發現新的一批這個案外的批號這個時候讓你們去處理但是我在這邊特別要強調的相關的行政責任相關的政治責任該付就要付剛才也講就是說因為法務部現在檢調也開始在調查"},{"start":435.237,"end":456.73,"text":"如果業者有什麼隱匿甚至為了他的股價或者是為了他的這個股東會有刻意隱匿的事情當然該辦就要辦同樣的今天如果我們的官員想要息事寧人想要不要讓事態擴大而且結果造成今天"},{"start":457.811,"end":478.642,"text":"民眾根本不信任我們的政府不信任我們的官員的時候該下台就要下台好不好這我們現在第一課最重要就是趕快把這個整個事件穩定下來我們趕快把它清場最先穩定下來讓民眾都能安心那該負責就負責那另外請教部長中聯以外的你們會不會做抽檢"},{"start":484.813,"end":514.022,"text":"已經進行抽檢就是其他三家什麼時候會有結果因為很多人都說只有中聯市有問題嗎其他有沒有問題嗎目前其他三家已經採取逐批檢驗了他們現在出的貨都是逐批檢驗了那現在我們是在回頭再去看過去的批次那目前都已經進行逐批檢驗什麼時候可以公佈那才能夠安民心嘛不然大家又擔心你蓋牌啊什麼時候可以公佈就是有或沒有"},{"start":515.773,"end":537.867,"text":"我們檢驗出來一有問題的人會馬上都會宣布的就立即宣布 第一時間宣布就像我們昨天晚上接到通報我今天早上就跟大家先說了但是確實的這個詳細的批號跟流向的話要等我們把它釐清之後再說明避免又造成大家資訊上的混淆"},{"start":538.507,"end":549.219,"text":"对不能再有混淆也不能再有论察尤其啊绝对不能容许的就是盖牌好不好好谢谢好谢谢好谢谢王宏威委员的咨询"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:56:27.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:56:29.187000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請衛福部石部長。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T14:56:29.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:56:29.607000+08:00","text":"請石部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:56:29.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:56:29.607000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:56:29.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:56:55.632000+08:00","text":"部長，今天早上一開始，我就要求衛福部應該針對這一次問題油在全臺流竄以及你們政策一變再變向社會道歉，可是到目前為止，我沒有聽到你有道歉耶！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:56:57.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:56:58.893000+08:00","text":"所以你真的覺得不需要道歉？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:56:59.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:57:07.801000+08:00","text":"我們依法行政啦，在這當中，如果在風險的溝通上，對大眾的溝通有不足的地方，我們來改進。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:57:07.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:57:08.502000+08:00","text":"所以你不道歉？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:57:09.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:57:11.105000+08:00","text":"政策一變再變，不道歉？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:57:13.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:57:19.933000+08:00","text":"政策的改變造成大家的困擾部分，我願意為這件事情道歉。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:57:22.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:57:24.047000+08:00","text":"為什麼我這樣問部長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:57:24.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:57:32.455000+08:00","text":"除了今天早上我一開始在講的，包含我剛才聽到李坤城委員的詢答，他是民進黨籍、執政黨籍的委員，我看他都受不了了啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:57:32.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:57:57.381000+08:00","text":"講到第一線的消費者，到目前為止，事實上已經發生多起消費者因為你們的標準一變再變，整個政策亂七八糟，在現場已經開始有一些退貨被刁難，大家吵來吵去，一堆民怨啊！","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:57:57.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:58:21.034000+08:00","text":"所以我剛才說你們真的應該用一個非常誠懇的態度先跟所有的民眾來道歉，部長，1,300公噸的問題油，如果以學校的游泳池來計算，可以灌進幾個游泳池，你知道嗎？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:58:21.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:58:21.114000+08:00","text":"這個我沒有計算過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:58:21.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:58:22.115000+08:00","text":"2.5個游泳池，可以感覺到吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:58:33.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:59:02.963000+08:00","text":"1,300公噸的問題油，如果以學校25公尺的標準池來計算，起碼可以灌進2.5個游泳池，但是到目前為止回收只有3%耶，所以這一次的問題油事件、致癌油事件，回收非常非常的少，然後你的政策一再改變。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:59:03.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:59:13.170000+08:00","text":"我也想請問一下，因為今天又發生了泰山另外一個所謂的案外批號，現在是確定不是原來的批號，是吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:59:14.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:59:21.229000+08:00","text":"那個批號跟目前下架的、我們所宣布的這些油品的批號是不同的批號。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:59:21.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:59:30.312000+08:00","text":"好，不同，所以原來下架的油品是原來的批號製造的油嘛，對不對？對。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:59:30.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:59:37.275000+08:00","text":"現在又有新的批號出現，你們有沒有一個比較果斷、更快速的政策？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:59:37.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:59:57.090000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我們第一刻下架的就是所有油品，就是這個下來的所有油品其實第一刻就已經下架了，後面調整的部分只是由這個油品再往下去製造的加工食品，那個政策上我們有一些調整是沒有錯，但是油品的部分都是第一刻就全部下架了……","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:59:57.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:59:57.410000+08:00","text":"好，所以我想確定一下……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T14:59:57.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T14:59:58.011000+08:00","text":"但是油品的部分都是第一刻就全部下架，這個就是按照106年定下來的原則在做。","quality":0.406},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T14:59:58.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:00:17.849000+08:00","text":"好，所以我想確定一下，今天爆發了所謂的案外批號，那麼這一些又出事的批號，它下面所製造的油品還有相關的製品也統統都要一起下架，是不是都在你原來的下架範圍？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:00:17.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:00:21.973000+08:00","text":"不要到時候又告訴我有其他下架的產品喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:00:22.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:00:39.342000+08:00","text":"這一個油品的批號因為跟上一次的、我們目前公布的是不同批號，所以我們現在正會同彰化縣衛生局往上去追溯這個批號所提供的油品是哪一些，效期是哪一批，然後就會來發布。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:00:39.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:00:47.326000+08:00","text":"所以還是有可能發生另外要立刻再去公布相關的流向，還有相關下架的產品嘛？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:00:47.326000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T15:00:48.667000+08:00","text":"會有、會有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:00:48.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:00:50.589000+08:00","text":"是非常有可能，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:00:50.589000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T15:00:51.589000+08:00","text":"有、有、有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:00:50.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:00:51.630000+08:00","text":"因為它批號不一樣嘛！對。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:00:52.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:00:55.633000+08:00","text":"搞不好製造日期也不一樣，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:00:55.633000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T15:00:56.633000+08:00","text":"對，製造日期不一樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:00:55.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:00:57.294000+08:00","text":"所以你同意嘛！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:00:57.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:01:01.177000+08:00","text":"你可能會有繼續進一步要再公布的。對。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:01:01.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:01:04.400000+08:00","text":"所以這個事件確實已經是越滾越大。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:01:05.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:01:16.790000+08:00","text":"我請問部長，我們現在所有的事情，從你6月30日接受到通報之後，請問一下，行政院院長卓榮泰院長有全程掌握嗎？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:01:17.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:01:31.743000+08:00","text":"我們都有跟院長報告目前辦理的情形、處理的情形，包含他也指示這個要擴大去查驗，所以我們才會把中聯過去所有的油品每一批都重新驗。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:01:31.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:01:33.985000+08:00","text":"好，所以院長全盤掌握，院長沒有在狀況外，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:01:33.985000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T15:01:39.427000+08:00","text":"我們都有跟院長報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:01:39.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:01:49.210000+08:00","text":"院長沒有在狀況外，所以現在外界所批評跟質疑你們一變再變，甚至有包含蓋牌的問題、髮夾彎的問題，院長也有全程掌握？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:01:54.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:02:14.460000+08:00","text":"我們這個沒有什麼蓋牌，我們都按照過去所定下來的這一些行政規則在執行，但是這當中因為這個事件的特殊性，我們再召開專家會議來做一些調整，這些都是按照證據查到哪裡、事實發現到哪裡做的調整。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:02:14.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:02:25.086000+08:00","text":"所以到目前為止，部長不認為你們需要負任何行政責任或者政治責任嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:02:25.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:02:41.837000+08:00","text":"我們第一刻就已經要求油品的部分要下架了，只是在處理油品衍生的再製品，因為就過去而言它是不需要下架，過去訂的標準是不需要的，所以我們才就這個事件上再重新檢視它的風險。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:02:41.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:02:42.617000+08:00","text":"部長，我直接說，問題油要下架，出問題的官員也要下架啊！","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:02:48.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:03:01.874000+08:00","text":"我有說過到目前為止，剛才我講，你說你願意為這整個程序，為這整個跟外界的溝通，你願意為這件事情道歉，可是在這之前沒有人道歉！","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:03:02.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:03:10.561000+08:00","text":"好像就活該發生這樣的事情，沒有人道歉，沒有人下臺，也沒有人負責。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:03:10.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:03:13.843000+08:00","text":"以現階段來講，因為看起來整個問題的事態有擴大，因為又發現新的案外批號，這個時候讓你們去處理，但是我在這邊特別要強調的，相關的行政責任、相關的政治責任，該負就要負。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:03:13.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:03:48.164000+08:00","text":"剛才也講，因為現在法務部檢調也開始在調查，如果業者有什麼隱匿，甚至為了它的股價，或者是為了它的股東會有刻意隱匿的事情，當然該辦就要辦。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:03:48.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:07.835000+08:00","text":"同樣的，今天如果我們的官員想要息事寧人，想要讓事態不要擴大，結果造成今天民眾根本不信任我們的政府、不信任我們的官員的時候，該下臺就要下臺，好不好？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:09.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:15.259000+08:00","text":"我們現在第一刻最重要就是趕快把整個事件穩定下來，我們趕快把它做個清查……","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:15.259000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:16.259000+08:00","text":"對，很重要，我同意啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:15.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:19.942000+08:00","text":"最先穩定下來，讓民眾都能安心，那該負責就負責。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:20.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:20.642000+08:00","text":"另外請教部長，中聯以外的，你們會不會做抽檢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:26.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:28.774000+08:00","text":"已經進行抽檢，就是其他3家……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:29.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:30.754000+08:00","text":"好，什麼時候會有結果？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:32.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:34.835000+08:00","text":"因為很多人都說只有中聯有問題嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:34.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:36.976000+08:00","text":"其他的油有沒有問題？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:36.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:49.140000+08:00","text":"目前其他3家已經採取逐批檢驗了，他們現在出的貨都是逐批檢驗，現在我們是回頭再去看過去的批次，那目前都已經進行逐批檢驗。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:49.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:49.780000+08:00","text":"什麼時候可以公布？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:50.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:51.661000+08:00","text":"才能夠安民心嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:51.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:53.181000+08:00","text":"不然大家又擔心你蓋牌啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:53.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:54.041000+08:00","text":"什麼時候可以公布？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:54.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:04:56.002000+08:00","text":"就是有或沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:04:57.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:05:01.115000+08:00","text":"我們檢驗出來一有問題馬上都會宣布。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:05:01.115000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T15:05:02.115000+08:00","text":"就立即宣布。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:05:01.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:05:02.376000+08:00","text":"對，立即宣布。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:05:02.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:05:03.577000+08:00","text":"第一時間宣布，就其他的也要檢驗。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:05:04.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:05:19.847000+08:00","text":"對，就像我們昨天晚上接到通報，我今天早上就跟大家先說了，但是詳細的批號跟流向要等我們釐清之後再說明，避免又造成大家資訊上的混淆。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:05:20.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:05:27.455000+08:00","text":"對，不能再有混淆，也不能再有落差，尤其絕對不能容許的就是蓋牌，好不好？","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2026-07-08T15:05:27.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:05:27.895000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-08T15:05:28.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:05:28.616000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T15:05:29.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T15:05:30.939000+08:00","text":"謝謝王鴻薇委員的質詢。","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T15:05:31.439000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T15:05:34.296143+08:00","text":"現在請鄭天財委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1772,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（14時56分）謝謝主席，請衛福部石部長。"],["主席：請石部長。"],["石部長崇良：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，今天早上一開始，我就要求衛福部應該針對這一次問題油在全臺流竄以及你們政策一變再變向社會道歉，可是到目前為止，我沒有聽到你有道歉耶！所以你真的覺得不需要道歉？"],["石部長崇良：我們依法行政啦，在這當中，如果在風險的溝通上，對大眾的溝通有不足的地方，我們來改進。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你不道歉？政策一變再變，不道歉？"],["石部長崇良：政策的改變造成大家的困擾部分，我願意為這件事情道歉。"],["王委員鴻薇：為什麼我這樣問部長？除了今天早上我一開始在講的，包含我剛才聽到李坤城委員的詢答，他是民進黨籍、執政黨籍的委員，我看他都受不了了啦！講到第一線的消費者，到目前為止，事實上已經發生多起消費者因為你們的標準一變再變，整個政策亂七八糟，在現場已經開始有一些退貨被刁難，大家吵來吵去，一堆民怨啊！所以我剛才說你們真的應該用一個非常誠懇的態度先跟所有的民眾來道歉，部長，1,300公噸的問題油，如果以學校的游泳池來計算，可以灌進幾個游泳池，你知道嗎？"],["石部長崇良：這個我沒有計算過。"],["王委員鴻薇：2.5個游泳池，可以感覺到吧？1,300公噸的問題油，如果以學校25公尺的標準池來計算，起碼可以灌進2.5個游泳池，但是到目前為止回收只有3%耶，所以這一次的問題油事件、致癌油事件，回收非常非常的少，然後你的政策一再改變。我也想請問一下，因為今天又發生了泰山另外一個所謂的案外批號，現在是確定不是原來的批號，是吧？"],["石部長崇良：那個批號跟目前下架的、我們所宣布的這些油品的批號是不同的批號。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，不同，所以原來下架的油品是原來的批號製造的油嘛，對不對？"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：現在又有新的批號出現，你們有沒有一個比較果斷、更快速的政策？"],["石部長崇良：跟委員說明，我們第一刻下架的就是所有油品，就是這個下來的所有油品其實第一刻就已經下架了，後面調整的部分只是由這個油品再往下去製造的加工食品，那個政策上我們有一些調整是沒有錯，但是油品的部分都是第一刻就全部下架了……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以我想確定一下……"],["石部長崇良：但是油品的部分都是第一刻就全部下架，這個就是按照106年定下來的原則在做。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以我想確定一下，今天爆發了所謂的案外批號，那麼這一些又出事的批號，它下面所製造的油品還有相關的製品也統統都要一起下架，是不是都在你原來的下架範圍？不要到時候又告訴我有其他下架的產品喔！"],["石部長崇良：這一個油品的批號因為跟上一次的、我們目前公布的是不同批號，所以我們現在正會同彰化縣衛生局往上去追溯這個批號所提供的油品是哪一些，效期是哪一批，然後就會來發布。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以還是有可能發生另外要立刻再去公布相關的流向，還有相關下架的產品嘛？"],["石部長崇良：會有、會有。"],["王委員鴻薇：是非常有可能，對不對？"],["石部長崇良：有、有、有。"],["王委員鴻薇：因為它批號不一樣嘛！"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：搞不好製造日期也不一樣，對不對？"],["石部長崇良：對，製造日期不一樣。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你同意嘛！你可能會有繼續進一步要再公布的。"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以這個事件確實已經是越滾越大。我請問部長，我們現在所有的事情，從你6月30日接受到通報之後，請問一下，行政院院長卓榮泰院長有全程掌握嗎？"],["石部長崇良：我們都有跟院長報告目前辦理的情形、處理的情形，包含他也指示這個要擴大去查驗，所以我們才會把中聯過去所有的油品每一批都重新驗。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以院長全盤掌握，院長沒有在狀況外，對不對？"],["石部長崇良：我們都有跟院長報告。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長沒有在狀況外，所以現在外界所批評跟質疑你們一變再變，甚至有包含蓋牌的問題、髮夾彎的問題，院長也有全程掌握？"],["石部長崇良：我們這個沒有什麼蓋牌，我們都按照過去所定下來的這一些行政規則在執行，但是這當中因為這個事件的特殊性，我們再召開專家會議來做一些調整，這些都是按照證據查到哪裡、事實發現到哪裡做的調整。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以到目前為止，部長不認為你們需要負任何行政責任或者政治責任嗎？"],["石部長崇良：我們第一刻就已經要求油品的部分要下架了，只是在處理油品衍生的再製品，因為就過去而言它是不需要下架，過去訂的標準是不需要的，所以我們才就這個事件上再重新檢視它的風險。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，我直接說，問題油要下架，出問題的官員也要下架啊！我有說過到目前為止，剛才我講，你說你願意為這整個程序，為這整個跟外界的溝通，你願意為這件事情道歉，可是在這之前沒有人道歉！好像就活該發生這樣的事情，沒有人道歉，沒有人下臺，也沒有人負責。以現階段來講，因為看起來整個問題的事態有擴大，因為又發現新的案外批號，這個時候讓你們去處理，但是我在這邊特別要強調的，相關的行政責任、相關的政治責任，該負就要負。","剛才也講，因為現在法務部檢調也開始在調查，如果業者有什麼隱匿，甚至為了它的股價，或者是為了它的股東會有刻意隱匿的事情，當然該辦就要辦。同樣的，今天如果我們的官員想要息事寧人，想要讓事態不要擴大，結果造成今天民眾根本不信任我們的政府、不信任我們的官員的時候，該下臺就要下臺，好不好？"],["石部長崇良：我們現在第一刻最重要就是趕快把整個事件穩定下來，我們趕快把它做個清查……"],["王委員鴻薇：對，很重要，我同意啊！"],["石部長崇良：最先穩定下來，讓民眾都能安心，那該負責就負責。"],["王委員鴻薇：另外請教部長，中聯以外的，你們會不會做抽檢？"],["石部長崇良：已經進行抽檢，就是其他3家……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，什麼時候會有結果？因為很多人都說只有中聯有問題嗎？其他的油有沒有問題？"],["石部長崇良：目前其他3家已經採取逐批檢驗了，他們現在出的貨都是逐批檢驗，現在我們是回頭再去看過去的批次，那目前都已經進行逐批檢驗。"],["王委員鴻薇：什麼時候可以公布？才能夠安民心嘛！不然大家又擔心你蓋牌啊！什麼時候可以公布？就是有或沒有。"],["石部長崇良：我們檢驗出來一有問題馬上都會宣布。"],["王委員鴻薇：就立即宣布。"],["石部長崇良：對，立即宣布。"],["王委員鴻薇：第一時間宣布，就其他的也要檢驗。"],["石部長崇良：對，就像我們昨天晚上接到通報，我今天早上就跟大家先說了，但是詳細的批號跟流向要等我們釐清之後再說明，避免又造成大家資訊上的混淆。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，不能再有混淆，也不能再有落差，尤其絕對不能容許的就是蓋牌，好不好？好，謝謝。"],["石部長崇良：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員的質詢。","現在請鄭天財委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":242,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-26-18","speakers":["盧縣一","張嘉郡","王鴻薇","蘇清泉","徐巧芯","羅廷瑋","黃健豪","林沛祥","陳菁徽","邱慧洳","王育敏","林月琴","范雲","陳瑩","廖偉翔","林淑芬","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","陳昭姿","劉建國","楊瓊瓔","涂權吉","楊曜","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王正旭","陳冠廷","陳清龍","洪孟楷","徐欣瑩","林德福","傅崐萁","林倩綺","許宇甄","洪毓祥"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2026-07-08"],"gazette_id":"1156101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學\n與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查( 一) 委員廖偉翔等18 人擬具\n「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員蘇清泉等23人擬具\n「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛\n生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條\n條文修正草案」案、( 五) 委員翁曉玲等17 人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草\n案」案、(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案、\n(七)委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(八)委員黃健豪等16\n人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛\n生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案、(十)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五\n條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正\n草案」案、(十二)委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(十三)\n委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員陳超明\n等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員黃健豪等23人\n擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十\n六)委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王\n育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156101_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}