{"error":false,"id":["170389"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170389,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170389","日期":"2026-07-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-08T15:26:33+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-08T15:45:03+08:00","影片長度":"00:18:30","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4fafa81be08c8210051e1aac5d42cb898c89d092fec882f476d06c5fcdc2d6fc386a9177d870d5df5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"15:26:33 - 15:45:03","會議時間":"2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n討論事項\n審查\n一、委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員黃健豪等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員陳超明等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員黃健豪等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員王育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】\n【討論事項第十七案，如經復議則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.679718750000001,"end":7.793468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.995968750000001,"end":11.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.387843750000002,"end":12.906593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.535343750000003,"end":14.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.859718750000003,"end":17.715968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.17159375,"end":18.340343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.340343750000002,"end":19.032218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.31909375,"end":20.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.10784375,"end":33.190343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.67971875,"end":75.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.44096875000001,"end":87.00471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.42659375000001,"end":88.50659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.50659375000001,"end":88.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.14784375,"end":111.87846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.36784375,"end":113.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.67971875,"end":121.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.81346875000001,"end":125.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.90159375,"end":131.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.02721875,"end":138.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.99659375000002,"end":154.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.03221875,"end":154.09971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.11659375000002,"end":205.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.72034375,"end":205.93971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.37846875000002,"end":265.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.28909375,"end":265.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.32284375,"end":292.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.01784375,"end":273.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.08534375,"end":273.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.73721875,"end":287.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.70659375,"end":294.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.03971875,"end":300.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.91221875,"end":311.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.04159375,"end":310.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.16784375000003,"end":326.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.30471875,"end":360.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.22346875,"end":391.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.70846875,"end":390.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.14284375,"end":394.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.02846875,"end":408.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.49971875,"end":402.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.00159375000004,"end":406.43159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":408.45659375,"end":413.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.40096875,"end":413.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.46846875,"end":413.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.80596875000003,"end":413.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.83971875000003,"end":417.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.85659375,"end":413.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.13909375000003,"end":415.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.77159375,"end":424.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.67346875000004,"end":425.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.49596875000003,"end":434.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.96721875000003,"end":448.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.49659375000005,"end":477.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.66096875000005,"end":509.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.84346875000006,"end":497.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.96159375,"end":498.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.99346875000003,"end":517.5872187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":518.0090937499999,"end":520.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謝謝主席麻煩請石部長跟江署長請石部長 江署長待會兒也會問到教育部的那晚一點教育部的再上來好 曾委員好那個部長跟署長你們都辛苦了那本席今天要談的不只是這一次大豆沙拉油的事件那我要談的是人民到底還相不相信政府的食安制度"},{"start":34.013,"end":50.214,"text":"這幾年從蘇丹紅還有保齡茶室到今天的食用油的事件那人民最大的焦慮不是又多了一個食安事件而是說到底還有多少事情是我們不知道的那每一天全台有兩千多萬的人"},{"start":51.395,"end":75.373,"text":"坐在這個餐桌前有孩子在學校吃營養午餐有長輩可能在家裡準備三餐那也有像我們這樣像各位上班族的在買便當那大家關心的不是政治攻防喔而是最簡單的事情我們今天吃進肚子裡的東西到底安不安全那政府食安制度的建制我們到底還能不能信任"},{"start":77.337,"end":92.769,"text":"這次這個中聯油脂公司發現問題有油品事件那這邊有幾個問題需要釐清想跟兩位請教首先呢本期想請教就是衛福部是如何發現油品有問題及發現的時機"},{"start":95.331,"end":110.158,"text":"那根據媒體的報導食藥署是在115年6月30日傍晚接獲中聯油脂的主動通報以及7月1日傍晚再次接獲通報他們的大豆沙拉油約1300公噸減出本便坪那每公斤8.1維克那製造日期是115年4月4日"},{"start":122.861,"end":138.278,"text":"这个为什么4月生产的产品要经过三个月后才发现那如果说今天不是业者自己通报这1300吨的问题有政府有办法发现吗"},{"start":139.199,"end":152.443,"text":"還是說等都吃光光了我們還不知道呢所以到底這個檢驗的時機他是定在執法的行政命令還是某法的法律條文上再麻煩請部長說明一下"},{"start":154.584,"end":175.802,"text":"這裡有涉及到兩個規定一個是檢驗 檢驗這個是授權它的檢驗頻率當然是授權行政命令去執行的第二個是通報的規定通報這個是寫在我們的母法也就是食安法裡面的第七條它就有強制通報的規定"},{"start":176.883,"end":203.862,"text":"那我們回溯這個事件其實按照這個自主檢驗那麼在5月的時候 5月13號的時候其實已經有下游的業者已經驗出有超標的情形只是這個中間沒有及時的通報到主管機關遲到一直到6月30號那麼才通報主管機關才啟動這個後面的這一系列的行動那前面這個時間就延誤了"},{"start":206.708,"end":232.134,"text":"那所以我們從這個事件呢也在檢討幾個方向第一個當然自主檢驗的頻率要求的規定包含這個批次那麼多應該要它的量那麼大應該要逐批的檢驗那另外要強化它的這個抽驗的方式那這個是自主檢驗要去強化要求的那第二個呢是第三方檢驗因為在這個過程當中雖然它沒有"},{"start":232.694,"end":248.312,"text":"通報可是第三方檢驗其實有驗出來所以如果也能夠讓第三方的檢驗的結果直接連結到這個主管機關那也能夠雖然你內部沒有來通報但是主管機關也可以透過第三方檢驗的結果"},{"start":250.294,"end":263.471,"text":"來及時發現那這個也是另外一個可以強化的機制那當然第三個就是後市場查驗的部分那後市場查驗怎麼樣去強化包含是主管機關的抽驗那這個部分也會未來會來檢討"},{"start":265.873,"end":291.66,"text":"對 這樣看起來就是在我們過去過度依賴這個業者他們自己主動通報這件事情是行不通的那本席也很高興就是說起碼在這個事件上你們有做這些檢討那聽起來就是說第三方的這個未來有檢查到的協助來主動通報主管機關我想這些都是很好的方法那這一次"},{"start":293.8,"end":310.905,"text":"就是問題的發生當然布朗第一時間接受媒體訪問看起來就是說衛福部的重點是要查清楚發生的原因那也就是這個BAP的這個環境污染還是說生產過程控制不當所產生的環境污染"},{"start":313.287,"end":326.023,"text":"環境污染是歸因於這個大豆受到土壤污染所產生或者是後者是生產時可能就是溫度控制不當所產生那目前真正的原因你們調查清楚了嗎"},{"start":327.352,"end":356.742,"text":"因為他當時候的這些黃豆已經沒有殘留了所以我們沒有辦法回頭去驗這個當時候的這個黃豆那但是在這個他的這個成品就是製造出來的油品他有留下這個樣本依法要留樣本下來我們現在會樣本全部會重驗一次然後再回頭來對應他所用的這個批號到底因為他也有進美國豆也有進這個巴西豆然後來對照一下如果"},{"start":357.562,"end":385.031,"text":"兩個來源都有產生問題的品項那當然那個問題比較像是在製程當中的問題因為如果是同一批來源他就會限制某幾批會有問題而已如果確實就是對應只有那一批的黃豆的下油的製造出來的批次的油品才有問題的話那這個原料有問題的可能性就會比較高所以我們大概就會看我們"},{"start":386.011,"end":413.229,"text":"這個明天最後的檢驗報告出來之後會進一步來釐清那個源頭的原因所以快的話明天我們可以知道答案明天應該是說我們把它過去從4月到6月底中間這每一個批次的檢驗我們重新都把它驗一遍這個報告會先出來或許我們還會再找專家來討論我是建議這樣子啦因為有時候你們沒有答案的時候你們就hold住嘛"},{"start":413.949,"end":425.356,"text":"大家會質疑啊那我倒覺得說你每天有進度沒進度你都報告我覺得至少讓民眾知道說你們是有在處理那"},{"start":426.573,"end":448.296,"text":"其實今天很多委員在垂詢說回收多少公頓還有多少下架但是我想回歸到人民最關心的還是想知道我有沒有吃到我的孩子有沒有吃到那我的父母有沒有去買到這些油雖然我們去探討這個原因很重要但問題的根源"},{"start":449.557,"end":473.984,"text":"就是事前沒有被檢測出來那對於民眾的健康還是會有風險那我想這個也是我們身為民意代表最無法接受的所以呢問題的核心還是要有這個安全查驗機制尤其是這個BAP這種一級致癌物而且流出了1300公噸那才回收17公噸我想這個就是事前沒有發現那事後我們現在再怎麼亡羊補牢"},{"start":475.564,"end":491.17,"text":"效果都是有限的那我想本席要在這裡要求三件事情就是說第一個所有流向資訊要持續及時公開啦那剛剛也有講就是說所有回收的進度你要"},{"start":491.75,"end":520.022,"text":"每日要更新那再來呢所有校園供應鏈應該要全部要公開透明不要讓家長每天看新聞在那邊猜也不要讓消費者說自己在那邊一瓶一瓶在那邊比對我想人民需要的是真相啦不是說在這邊每天要在這裡猜測那我接下來我要請這個教育部我待會還是會問到衛福部那那個教育部麻煩一下"},{"start":523.458,"end":523.679,"text":"今天"},{"start":525.219,"end":552.808,"text":"如果是一位媽媽那媽媽根本就不會去研究什麼BAP他只會問一句說我孩子今天吃的安全嗎所以本期要請教就是說從4月份業者自己檢驗出來這個BAP超標至今喔那目前全國有多少學校多少團善多少中央廚房受到影響你們全部完成盤點了嗎那全部完成更換了嗎那"},{"start":555.253,"end":577.504,"text":"如果沒有的話多久要完成跟委員報告到昨天為止因為衛福部公告的就是有18個品項那個部分我們在第一時間盤點出來是165所學校有4個縣市受到受到影響哪4個縣市新北50校台北"},{"start":580.205,"end":605.226,"text":"42校然後那個台中67校加兩個就是實驗教育機構所以學校部分都集中在北部跟中部基隆有4個學校然後今天我們也得知桃園他好像也有發現13個學校有使用到就是7月1號衛福部所發布的這個部分好看來都集中在中部以北"},{"start":606.579,"end":626.244,"text":"目前看起來是所以那其他是其他像南部啦東部是還沒檢查到還是說就沒有第一時間我們把那個名單就是給他們他們去核對那個批號的時候有就是其他的縣市是回復他們沒有用到"},{"start":626.974,"end":649.975,"text":"好所以目前地方回覆是除了中部以北的這些學校有以外地方回覆你要注意我的問題喔地方回覆是截至目前為止沒有發現還是就是沒有他們的回覆是說目前沒有查到公佈的那個批號目前沒有查到那以後"},{"start":651.676,"end":674.833,"text":"跟委員報告 我們會依衛福部的資料我們會滾動修正 會繼續盤點好 所以我們現在還不能完全太放心說都沒有好 因為也提醒你們這個用詞遣字要很精確好 那另外我想要建議教育部就是說希望你們要建立這個校園實案公開平台"},{"start":675.773,"end":696.464,"text":"讓每位家長只要掃QR code就可以知道說今天哪一家公餐那最近一次抽驗結果是否曾經違規那這個不是要增加你們的行政負擔而是要增加人民的信任要讓家長跟孩子安心好這個部分請你們要處理好那教育部可以先請回"},{"start":699.349,"end":705.734,"text":"本席在這邊還是要提醒衛福部一件事情我今天看到這個事件其實心裡有很大的感慨"},{"start":707.11,"end":735.652,"text":"就是說我們常常看到衛福部對於這個機能性的食品譬如說保健食品啦 健康食品的廣告啦標示宣稱健康效應跟這個醫療效能的你們查得非常嚴格也罰得非常快甚至很多國內的企業喔這個動輒被開罰只是因為一句文字一句宣稱就可能被認定違規啦那反而就是說那個境外的都管不到啦 也罰不到啦"},{"start":736.212,"end":744.854,"text":"那但是今天呢這個真正涉及到食品安全涉及到人民健康風險卻讓就是說卻讓人民看到說欸你們怎麼這樣"},{"start":746.041,"end":773.859,"text":"有害的查不快有益的卻不能賣所以同樣都是食品如果主管機關把太多的心力放在管理那個廣告文字卻沒有把你們重要更多的這個人力跟時間的資源放在高風險食品的源頭管理還有這個製程監控與抽菸機制人民一定會問你衛福部你們政府的這個管理的重點到底是放在哪裡啊"},{"start":774.847,"end":800.677,"text":"食藥署人家也會質疑你食藥署該管的不管簡單管方便罰的你們KPI就好得不得了嗎這是很諷刺的事情所以今天到這邊我順便關心一下全文才六條的食品及相關產品標示宣傳廣告涉及不實誇張醫生誤解及醫療效能認定準則你們何時要完成預告這個預告了嗎"},{"start":805.239,"end":833.195,"text":"我們跟委員報告我們針對修訂這個準則我們增訂了附件那目的其實我們從今年度年初我們就舉辦了三場跟我都了解啦因為我們花很多時間詞詢我就說你抓個提醒打算什麼時候完成預告我們希望在回去之後在應該是一個月內應該就可以一個月內預告提出來因為整個都已經有確立下來了"},{"start":833.635,"end":848.525,"text":"好一個月內吼好那這就是我想最後我們再回到今天最重要的問題因為現在很多人在講吼有一早大家在喊吶道歉吶下台吶要我們負責吶還有捕破網吶吼"},{"start":850.788,"end":864.727,"text":"我認為這些其實都很重要可是還不夠因為呢道歉是一種態度負責呢就是承擔那改革呢才是真正的答案啦所以部長"},{"start":865.808,"end":888.978,"text":"我要在這邊講今天這麼大的一個樓子你絕對不能這樣拍拍屁股就走人了你必須堅守崗位要很負責任的把真相調查清楚還有要嚴懲究責相關的這些業者還有失職的人員這個是你的責任那我也建議衛福部要立刻提出這個三項制度改革"},{"start":889.798,"end":905.356,"text":"就是第一個要建立高風險食品分級管理制度以及高風險的食品提高抽驗的頻率不要全部都用同一套的標準那再來呢要建立食品風險即時公開機制不是等媒體追而是主動公佈"},{"start":906.577,"end":932.568,"text":"那此次調查截至昨天傍晚為止有跟你們確認這個數字你們有查到就是有360家嘛我幫你們統計了一下就是在北部的部分總共131家中部的部分145家南部63家這個花東15家離島5家那我關心一下我們台東啦就是1家"},{"start":933.388,"end":961.89,"text":"那我看到這個一家的數據 我不知道是我要很開心 還是要很擔心因為開心是說 啊 好家宅不像那個北部這麼多家看起來我們在台東目前現在暑假好多人跑去台東玩我們看起來吃起來還蠻安心的但是我的擔心是說 欸不對喔你會不會是因為這個地方這衛生局的量能因為台東偏鄉啦 那我們人力設備檢驗能量都有限"},{"start":963.332,"end":985.449,"text":"結果我們沒有查清楚 我不知道啦 我只是說有這樣的擔心但是不管怎麼樣 我都認為我們應該要加強地方衛生局的能量像我們台中這樣 剛剛講了偏鄉人力設備 檢驗能量都有限中央是不能把責任就直接交給地方 然後卻沒有給地方足夠的資源"},{"start":987.17,"end":1008.149,"text":"所以這個部分我只是在這邊特別的要求提醒就是說地方食安的人力有限中央應該補足檢驗跟稽查的能量這個就是本席給衛福部提出的建議跟委員說明這一次我們在查的時候還是有我們的因為我們也了解地方的"},{"start":1009.21,"end":1030.376,"text":"量能有限他們一方面又要查下架的情形又要去做調查確實會有能力上的問題所以我們食藥署也動員了60位的人力直接對應廠商所以我們是從上游一路這樣查下來的所以查出來的加速比地方報的要更多差別在這裡"},{"start":1030.956,"end":1045.788,"text":"好 謝謝啦 就是也趁這個機會打個廣告啦現在如果大家外面吃得不安心可能這陣子到台東是比較安全的那本席也期待說我的故鄉台東能夠有更多的健康產業來台東發展"},{"start":1047.409,"end":1061.745,"text":"那如果能夠有更好的資源來投入讓更多安全的健康食品來我們好山好水這個好天然的台東生產讓更優質的好食品能夠行銷全國我相信受益的其實是整個我們台灣的民眾"},{"start":1064.468,"end":1083.715,"text":"那也希望衛福部跟這個食藥署能夠協助地方縣市投入更多的好資源給他們那我們人民呢每天只有三餐可是政府的責任確實有24小時那我們每個人的餐桌都值得安心那每個人的健康也都值得政府全力來守護所以"},{"start":1084.255,"end":1106.428,"text":"人民期待的是政府主動發現問題喔而不是說期待業者誠實通報那是不可能的事喔那這才是今天最需要補起來的那張安全的這個破網啦好 那我們我想今天苦口婆心做了很多的提醒也給你們加油打氣好 那該查的趕快把它查出來這樣好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝陳議員的資訊"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}