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辛苦您了央行總裁實在是一個非常重要又非常當然對你來講可能家境就熟但我看起來他是一個很艱鉅的任務2024年金融海嘯 洋金融海嘯9月19號那時候那時候整個房市從大多頭就急轉直下 急動變成"},{"start":31.282,"end":54.982,"text":"這個就變成這個急轉直下那我記得我記得當時也詢問過這個總裁喔這個您的看法是怎樣您的希望那時候您是希望說這個產業是穩定性的發展嘛不要這個突然這樣衝著你來這個對整體的社會公平正義各方面基礎正義各方面來講也不是一個好的方向然後你是希望說他可以做軟著陸啦"},{"start":56.423,"end":69.169,"text":"那我看今年六月您的央行禮監事會沒有再有什麼特別性的政策那之前有一點點那你看以目前的國內這個方式來講你看現在有沒有達到您說的這個軟著陸的這個方向然後這個您的看法"},{"start":80.014,"end":105.755,"text":"對 所以我們在就是說這一次維持選擇性管制就是說沒有在就是說維持不變其中有一個理由就是說我們2020年到現在目前為止在所有的主要的國家裡面我們的房地產的那個房價的高漲雖然我們有下來但是太慢了"},{"start":106.115,"end":128.521,"text":"太慢就對跟世界其他國家來比較其他國家還有那個什麼他城市來比較的時候我們的房價高他都是非常高你說的是兩件事第一個是你說的是我們房價相對其他的各個城市高還是說你覺得他的下降幅度慢對 即使我們下降的幅度是這樣子那麼我們的房價還是最高的"},{"start":134.463,"end":144.948,"text":"所以你覺得我們的房價的確是有下降嗎你覺得在你從2024到現在以來是有一點點啦有一點點下降事實上應該是說整個建商的他的這個獲利空間整體的下降因為"},{"start":154.252,"end":164.661,"text":"這個物料原料一直漲土地也沒有說跌什麼那它的加工成本增加但是它整個獲利空間變少所以整個這個這個中華民國產業來講建築產業應該是說這個產業建設相關這個產業現在獲利相對是變得比較低的那房價有達到您要預期的效果嗎"},{"start":177.545,"end":188.609,"text":"我總覺得我才會講就是說我們的新聞稿裡面講到就是說他的soft landing有一點慢你說什麼有點慢他的下來的速度有點慢相較我們2020年這樣的漲幅"},{"start":196.091,"end":218.019,"text":"它下來就是只有一點你說它長得很快 但跌得很慢意思是這樣子看起來意思是這樣子那這樣子這中間遇到幾個問題第一個就是有一些政策變相我說說你這個工作很艱鉅第一方面不希望房價長得太厲害讓老百姓負擔不起這個房子居住爭議包括我們有一些委員提到事實上有時候有些人要放屋什麼各方面一部份不希望它長太高那如果壓抑得太厲害的話會不會影響到這個產業的發展呢 你看"},{"start":225.823,"end":253.338,"text":"我想以目前來講的話呢它我們的房地產產業我覺得它還是穩健的OK穩健的所以還是可以健康的發展因為你也不能讓一個產業不能健康的發展嘛那現在又遇到另外一個議題啦那現在你看喔在整體來講近半年來喔這個國內的這個股市喔非常的蒸蒸日上啊幾乎快要每日創新高啦所以但是全國的其他產業"},{"start":254.718,"end":276.735,"text":"事實上我們研究員說的都是BI 除了AI產業 半導體 科技也真的是非常的好所以現在整個市場的資金感覺上全部都是流入這個股市造成了 包括因為股票實在是漲得很厲害所以包括了我們也看到很多老百姓也看到 紛紛做成幾代同行你不用看這個"},{"start":278.817,"end":298.926,"text":"造成幾代通常各種房貸啊 車貸啊各個類型的貸款都all in進入這個股票市場那這個是會造成一個風險的我記得早年大概1980年代那個時候早年台灣也曾經經歷過股市的那個狂奔然後下來造成一個很大的一個金融性的這個整個結構性的風險"},{"start":300.066,"end":305.631,"text":"你現在的方向呢整個趨勢呢不過剛剛我也在講就是說世代同堂這個字眼會讓人家誤解就是說一個投資人他可以同時做這樣的一個槓桿"},{"start":316.241,"end":319.123,"text":"市場上沒有這樣的事情嗎應該是不會吧會啦 我的意思是說房貸就是房貸啦信用貸款是信用貸款就是說是理財融資啦這個是分開的 不是同堂"},{"start":339.873,"end":346.504,"text":"分開的意思他這個意思可能是說同一個人同一個人他做這樣的操作因為國小實在是長大厲害對啦他會讓人家覺得一個人可以做同時可以做這樣的一個信的那個貸款那這個Leverage那就會很大了"},{"start":355.077,"end":360.639,"text":"我是覺得就是說所以我在那個理監事會的時候我才會覺得就是說這個字眼很容易讓人家混淆以為就是說一個人他可以同時做了這四樣的一個槓桿那這個還得了如果說每一個人都可以這樣子做的話那還得了那媒體會這樣報導應該也是有相當的考據吧因為這個世代同堂這個聽起來是很"},{"start":384.748,"end":392.234,"text":"聽起來每個人我們看到很多人都因為股票太旺所以大家都希望把所有的身家都all in進去那這個也是有一個風險現在比如說像外資這樣一直賣接著就影響到匯率整個匯率影響到後面就是進出口產業"},{"start":402.122,"end":426.236,"text":"所以您怎麼看這個情形呢我說匯率是現在我所講的股市跟匯率這個問題是在於就外資我們只是說外資啦跟這個我們投資人去投資對我現在講的是另外一題我知道那你就說如果說是就匯率的這個問題的話那主要的就是說最近會貶是因為"},{"start":427.176,"end":433.418,"text":"那個外資他獲利了結金額相當龐大所以我們央行現在還是要扮演一定的這個角色我們要穩定匯率讓這個進出口這個地方能維持一定的這個平衡所以這個在匯率方面還是會維持穩健的做法那在房地產的這方面對於房地產的話大概就是金融機構我們的房地產現在就是說滾動式檢討我們的政策就是這樣子"},{"start":456.487,"end":473.485,"text":"因為我想說這個可能對於這個也會開始擔心市場上也開始有擔心說如果說就是現在很多人在股市因為實在是漲得很多那可能不知道會不會還在巨漲這我們也不了解但是就是說這樣的話很多人可能就擁有比較多的"},{"start":474.466,"end":490.522,"text":"因為貨力多嘛現在普遍上大概投入第一個整個金融性結構進來然後接著有人就會可能另外走錢是不是就會流到房市去然後會不會再加上當然新青安現在有先佔那個那會不會因為這樣子又造成房地產的這個比較巨大的這個波動"},{"start":493.184,"end":519.326,"text":"所以所以我們才就說我們的政策呢就是說是密切的注意啦密切的注意滾動式的檢討那讓目前的那個整個的整個市場的一個信用不要過度擴張那這是我們的目的那你的手段我看你現在這個但是你現在手段是用原來的這個不動產貸款集中度一年的自主管理就轉向了銀行自主控管所以你現在是把這個把這個"},{"start":521.087,"end":527.839,"text":"等於是把這個責任也把這個方向就交到了把這個信用信用度就交到了銀行的手上對啦對啦 而不是這個嘛那這樣子的話是不是"},{"start":531.246,"end":557.342,"text":"有可能拿到好的效果嗎我覺得銀行對市場的變化會比我們中央銀行來得敏感因為為什麼第一個是他是第一線所以把這個權限還給他的話那他對他來講的話也好他在管理上會比較好那對整個市場的運作也比較健全"},{"start":557.662,"end":570.051,"text":"所以意思是說事實上我覺得您這樣的雖然在理監事會裡頭你們開會雖然好像沒有做怎樣的鬆綁但事實上這也是一種政策的鬆綁只是說是不是在房地產這個軟鑿路是不是"},{"start":573.593,"end":580.458,"text":"就是完全了的時候我是覺得你覺得它還是跌的還是降價幅度還是不夠嗎相較2020年以來的那個漲幅啦相較它之前漲它的跌幅還是不足的吧還是太慢啦"},{"start":592.188,"end":605.983,"text":"只有一點點而已但是還是要兼顧可能還是要兼顧這個因為少子化因為這些要育兒的啊老百姓這個需要可能也請您要特別注意我們會好謝謝總裁謝謝我們結束陳宜萱委員的質詢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T10:57:33.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:57:33.806000+08:00","text":"楊總裁，辛苦了！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T10:57:33.806000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-09T10:57:39.763000+08:00","text":"陳委員早。早！","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T10:57:39.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:57:40.123000+08:00","text":"辛苦您了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T10:57:41.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:57:50.311000+08:00","text":"央行總裁實在是一個非常重要又非常……當然對你來講，可能駕輕就熟，但我看起來它是一個很艱鉅的任務啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T10:57:50.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:57:55.776000+08:00","text":"2024年金融海嘯、楊金龍海嘯以後，9月19號那時候……喔！","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T10:57:55.776000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-09T10:57:57.397000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T10:57:57.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:58:27.962000+08:00","text":"那時候整個房市從大多頭急凍，變成急轉直下，我記得當時也詢問過總裁的看法，那時候你說希望這個產業穩定發展，不要突然這樣沖得很厲害，對整體社會公平正義及居住正義等各方面來講，也不是一個好的方向，然後你說希望它可以軟著陸。","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T10:58:29.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:58:41.629000+08:00","text":"我看今年6月央行理監事會沒有再有什麼特別的新政策，之前有一點點……以目前國內的房市來講，你覺得現在有沒有達到你所謂的軟著陸的方向？","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T10:58:41.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:58:42.149000+08:00","text":"你的看法如何？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T10:58:53.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:59:18.735000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們這一次是維持選擇性管制，就是維持不變，其中有一個理由就是從2020年到目前為止，在所有主要國家裡面，我們的房地產、房價高漲，雖然有下來，但太慢了……","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T10:59:19.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:59:19.455000+08:00","text":"太慢就對了？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T10:59:20.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:59:30.818000+08:00","text":"欸，對，跟世界其他國家，還有城市比較，我們的房價是非常高的。","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T10:59:32.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:59:38.721000+08:00","text":"你說的是兩件事，第一個，你是說我們的房價相對於其他各國主要城市是高的，還是你覺得房價下降的幅度慢，然後比不上其他國家下降幅度？","quality":0.586},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T10:59:39.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:59:41.501000+08:00","text":"即使我們下降的幅度是這樣子，但我們的房價還是最高的。喔！","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T10:59:47.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:59:51.045000+08:00","text":"OK，所以你覺得我們的房價的確是有下降嗎？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T10:59:51.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:59:54.166000+08:00","text":"你覺得從2024年到現在，房價有下降嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T10:59:54.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:59:55.107000+08:00","text":"也是有一點點，有一些。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T10:59:55.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T10:59:55.887000+08:00","text":"有一點點下降啦？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T10:59:55.887000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-09T10:59:56.887000+08:00","text":"是，有一點點。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T10:59:56.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:00:15.499000+08:00","text":"事實上應該是說建商的獲利空間整體下降，因為物料、原料一直漲，土地也沒有跌什麼，它的加工成本增加，但是它的獲利空間變少，所以以整個中華民國建設相關的產業來講，現在獲利相對變得比較低。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:00:15.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:00:17.661000+08:00","text":"房價有達到您預期的效果嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:00:30.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:00:37.107000+08:00","text":"我總覺得……所以我們的新聞稿裡面才會講到，它的soft landing有點慢。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:00:38.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:00:38.668000+08:00","text":"你說什麼有點慢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:00:40.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:00:50.292000+08:00","text":"它下來的速度有點慢，相較2020年的漲幅，它下來就只有一點點。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:00:50.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:00:51.472000+08:00","text":"你說它漲得很快，但跌得很慢，是不是這樣？","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:00:51.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:00:53.833000+08:00","text":"看起來你的意思是這樣子。是。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:00:55.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:01:05.017000+08:00","text":"這中間遇到幾個問題，第一個，有一些政策面上，我就說你們這個工作很艱鉅，一方面不希望房價漲得太厲害，讓老百姓負擔不起，要落實居住正義嘛！","quality":0.817},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:01:05.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:01:10.959000+08:00","text":"包括有些委員提到，有些人要換屋等等各方面，所以一方面不希望它漲太高，但如果壓抑得太厲害的話，會不會影響到產業的發展呢？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:01:10.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:01:10.999000+08:00","text":"你的看法呢？","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:01:19.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:01:27.828000+08:00","text":"以目前來講，我覺得我們的房地產產業還是穩健的。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:01:28.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:01:32.410000+08:00","text":"OK，所以還是可以健康的發展，因為不能讓一個產業不能健康的發展嘛！是。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:01:33.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:02:20.821000+08:00","text":"現在又遇到另外一個議題，整體來講，近半年來國內股市非常蒸蒸日上，幾乎快要每日創新高，但是全國其他產業就誠如剛剛彥秀委員說的都是BI（悲哀），AI產業、半導體、科技業真的是非常好，感覺上現在整個市場的資金全部都流入股市，因為股票實在是漲得很厲害，包括我們看到、很多老百姓也看到有人紛紛做成幾貸同堂，各種房貸、車貸等各個類型的貸款都all in進入股票市場，這個是不是會造成一個風險？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:02:21.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:02:34.047000+08:00","text":"我記得早年大概1980年代，臺灣也曾經經歷過股市的狂奔，造成一個很大的金融性、整個結構性的風險，你看現在的方向呢？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:02:34.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:02:35.008000+08:00","text":"整個趨勢呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:02:35.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:02:38.631000+08:00","text":"不過剛剛我也講了，「四貸同堂」這個字眼會讓人家誤解一個投資人可以同時做這樣的槓桿，我是覺得它是有點……","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:02:49.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:02:49.521000+08:00","text":"你是指市場上沒有這樣的事情嗎？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:02:49.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:02:49.701000+08:00","text":"應該是不會吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:02:49.701000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-09T11:02:50.701000+08:00","text":"不會嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:02:50.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:02:50.061000+08:00","text":"房貸、車貸……會啦！","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:02:50.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:02:52.103000+08:00","text":"我的意思就是，房貸就是房貸，信用貸款就是信用貸款，還有理財、融資等等，這些是分開的，不是同堂。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:03:13.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:03:16.699000+08:00","text":"它的意思可能是說同一個人做這樣的操作，因為股票實在是漲得太厲害了。對啦！","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:03:16.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:03:31.058000+08:00","text":"所以我的意思就是，它會讓人家覺得一個人可以同時做這樣的貸款，那這個leverage就會很大了，所以我在理監事會的時候才會提到這個字眼很容易會讓人家混淆，以為一個人可以同時做這四樣槓桿，這個還得了！","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:03:31.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:03:32.519000+08:00","text":"如果每一個人都可以這樣做的話，那還得了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:03:32.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:03:33.139000+08:00","text":"媒體會這樣報導，應該也是有相當的考據吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:03:33.139000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-09T11:03:34.139000+08:00","text":"還是你覺得事實上以你手頭上的資料……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:03:33.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:03:33.619000+08:00","text":"不，因為「四貸同堂」聽起來是很容易接受……","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:03:57.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:04:02.752000+08:00","text":"對，聽起來每個人……因為股票太旺，所以大家都希望把所有的身家都all in進去，這個也是有風險……","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:04:02.752000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-09T11:04:03.752000+08:00","text":"當然啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:04:02.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:04:17.163000+08:00","text":"比如說，現在外資這樣一直賣，接著就會影響到匯率，然後匯率又會影響到後面進出口產業，所以您怎麼看這個情形呢？","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:04:20.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:04:30.391000+08:00","text":"現在我所講的股市跟匯率，這個問題是在於外資，我們只是說外資，跟投資人去投資股票沒關係。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:04:30.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:04:31.731000+08:00","text":"我知道，我現在講的是另外的議題。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:04:34.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:04:40.516000+08:00","text":"如果就匯率的問題的話，最近會貶主要是因為外資獲利了結。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:04:40.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:04:42.437000+08:00","text":"獲利匯出，金額相當龐大，所以央行現在還是要扮演一定的角色。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:04:42.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:04:42.617000+08:00","text":"我們要穩定匯率。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:04:42.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:04:43.937000+08:00","text":"要穩定匯率，讓進出口這個地方能維持一定的平衡，所以在匯率方面還是會維持穩健的做法嘛？對。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:04:43.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:04:45.618000+08:00","text":"那在房地產方面，大概就是金融機構的這個做法……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:04:45.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:04:46.398000+08:00","text":"房地產現在就是滾動式檢討，我們的政策就是這樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:05:09.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:05:30.569000+08:00","text":"我想市場上也開始擔心現在很多人投入股市，因為股市實在漲得很多，不知道會不會再繼續漲，這個我們也不了解，但很多人可能就擁有比較多的股票，因為獲利多，現在就普遍投入。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:05:31.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:05:43.522000+08:00","text":"第一個、整個金融性結構進來，接著可能有另外一種狀況，錢是不是就會流到房市，當然現在新青安有先暫……會不會因為這樣又造成房地產比較巨大的波動？","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:05:46.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:06:01.697000+08:00","text":"所以我才說我們的政策就是密切注意、滾動式檢討，讓目前整個市場的信用不要過度擴張，這是我們的目的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:06:04.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:06:20.238000+08:00","text":"但是你現在的手段是由原來的不動產貸款集中度一年自主管理轉向了銀行自主控管，等於是把這個責任跟方向、信用度就交到了銀行手上，而不是……對。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:06:20.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:06:25.927000+08:00","text":"這樣有可能達到好的效果嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:06:25.927000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-09T11:06:26.927000+08:00","text":"原來是比較管控，現在是比較放鬆。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:06:25.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:06:36.874000+08:00","text":"我覺得銀行對市場的變化會比中央銀行來得敏感，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:06:36.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:06:39.335000+08:00","text":"第一、因為它是第一線……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:06:39.335000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-09T11:06:40.335000+08:00","text":"那是當然。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:06:39.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:06:50.322000+08:00","text":"所以我們把這個權限還給它，對它來講也好，它在管理上會比較好，對整個市場的運作也比較健全。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:06:53.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:06:59.188000+08:00","text":"雖然你們理監事會開會好像沒有怎樣鬆綁，但事實上，這也是一種政策的鬆綁了，對不對？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:06:59.188000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-09T11:07:00.188000+08:00","text":"是，這也是鬆綁。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:06:59.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:07:10.956000+08:00","text":"只是房地產是不是完全軟著陸，您覺得降價幅度還是不夠，是不是？","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:07:10.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:07:11.117000+08:00","text":"相較2020年以來的漲幅來講……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:07:11.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:07:12.378000+08:00","text":"相較之前的漲幅，它的跌幅還是不足的嘛？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:07:12.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:07:13.358000+08:00","text":"是，太慢了。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:07:13.358000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-09T11:07:25.188000+08:00","text":"OK，了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:07:25.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:07:25.748000+08:00","text":"只有一點點而已。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:07:26.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:07:36.600000+08:00","text":"但還是要兼顧因為少子化、育兒的部分，老百姓的需求也請您要特別注意。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"楊總裁金龍","start":"2026-07-09T11:07:37.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:07:37.201000+08:00","text":"這個我們會。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-07-09T11:07:37.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:07:37.321000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝總裁。謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-09T11:07:37.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-09T11:07:38.983000+08:00","text":"我們結束陳玉珍委員的質詢。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-09T11:07:39.483000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-09T11:07:42.054429+08:00","text":"接下來請林思銘委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":624,"blocks":[["陳委員玉珍：（10時57分）楊總裁，辛苦了！"],["楊總裁金龍：陳委員早。"],["陳委員玉珍：早！辛苦您了！央行總裁實在是一個非常重要又非常……當然對你來講，可能駕輕就熟，但我看起來它是一個很艱鉅的任務啦！2024年金融海嘯、楊金龍海嘯以後，9月19號那時候……"],["楊總裁金龍：喔！是，謝謝啦！"],["陳委員玉珍：那時候整個房市從大多頭急凍，變成急轉直下，我記得當時也詢問過總裁的看法，那時候你說希望這個產業穩定發展，不要突然這樣沖得很厲害，對整體社會公平正義及居住正義等各方面來講，也不是一個好的方向，然後你說希望它可以軟著陸。我看今年6月央行理監事會沒有再有什麼特別的新政策，之前有一點點……以目前國內的房市來講，你覺得現在有沒有達到你所謂的軟著陸的方向？你的看法如何？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，所以我們這一次是維持選擇性管制，就是維持不變，其中有一個理由就是從2020年到目前為止，在所有主要國家裡面，我們的房地產、房價高漲，雖然有下來，但太慢了……"],["陳委員玉珍：太慢就對了？"],["楊總裁金龍：欸，對，跟世界其他國家，還有城市比較，我們的房價是非常高的。"],["陳委員玉珍：你說的是兩件事，第一個，你是說我們的房價相對於其他各國主要城市是高的，還是你覺得房價下降的幅度慢，然後比不上其他國家下降幅度？"],["楊總裁金龍：即使我們下降的幅度是這樣子，但我們的房價還是最高的。"],["陳委員玉珍：喔！OK，所以你覺得我們的房價的確是有下降嗎？你覺得從2024年到現在，房價有下降嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：也是有一點點，有一些。"],["陳委員玉珍：有一點點下降啦？"],["楊總裁金龍：是，有一點點。"],["陳委員玉珍：事實上應該是說建商的獲利空間整體下降，因為物料、原料一直漲，土地也沒有跌什麼，它的加工成本增加，但是它的獲利空間變少，所以以整個中華民國建設相關的產業來講，現在獲利相對變得比較低。房價有達到您預期的效果嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：我總覺得……所以我們的新聞稿裡面才會講到，它的soft landing有點慢。"],["陳委員玉珍：你說什麼有點慢？"],["楊總裁金龍：它下來的速度有點慢，相較2020年的漲幅，它下來就只有一點點。"],["陳委員玉珍：你說它漲得很快，但跌得很慢，是不是這樣？看起來你的意思是這樣子。"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：這中間遇到幾個問題，第一個，有一些政策面上，我就說你們這個工作很艱鉅，一方面不希望房價漲得太厲害，讓老百姓負擔不起，要落實居住正義嘛！包括有些委員提到，有些人要換屋等等各方面，所以一方面不希望它漲太高，但如果壓抑得太厲害的話，會不會影響到產業的發展呢？你的看法呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：以目前來講，我覺得我們的房地產產業還是穩健的。"],["陳委員玉珍：OK，所以還是可以健康的發展，因為不能讓一個產業不能健康的發展嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：現在又遇到另外一個議題，整體來講，近半年來國內股市非常蒸蒸日上，幾乎快要每日創新高，但是全國其他產業就誠如剛剛彥秀委員說的都是BI（悲哀），AI產業、半導體、科技業真的是非常好，感覺上現在整個市場的資金全部都流入股市，因為股票實在是漲得很厲害，包括我們看到、很多老百姓也看到有人紛紛做成幾貸同堂，各種房貸、車貸等各個類型的貸款都all in進入股票市場，這個是不是會造成一個風險？我記得早年大概1980年代，臺灣也曾經經歷過股市的狂奔，造成一個很大的金融性、整個結構性的風險，你看現在的方向呢？整個趨勢呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：不過剛剛我也講了，「四貸同堂」這個字眼會讓人家誤解一個投資人可以同時做這樣的槓桿，我是覺得它是有點……"],["陳委員玉珍：你是指市場上沒有這樣的事情嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：應該是不會吧！"],["陳委員玉珍：不會嗎？房貸、車貸……"],["楊總裁金龍：會啦！我的意思就是，房貸就是房貸，信用貸款就是信用貸款，還有理財、融資等等，這些是分開的，不是同堂。"],["陳委員玉珍：它的意思可能是說同一個人做這樣的操作，因為股票實在是漲得太厲害了。"],["楊總裁金龍：對啦！所以我的意思就是，它會讓人家覺得一個人可以同時做這樣的貸款，那這個leverage就會很大了，所以我在理監事會的時候才會提到這個字眼很容易會讓人家混淆，以為一個人可以同時做這四樣槓桿，這個還得了！如果每一個人都可以這樣做的話，那還得了！"],["陳委員玉珍：媒體會這樣報導，應該也是有相當的考據吧？還是你覺得事實上以你手頭上的資料……"],["楊總裁金龍：不，因為「四貸同堂」聽起來是很容易接受……"],["陳委員玉珍：對，聽起來每個人……因為股票太旺，所以大家都希望把所有的身家都all in進去，這個也是有風險……"],["楊總裁金龍：當然啊！"],["陳委員玉珍：比如說，現在外資這樣一直賣，接著就會影響到匯率，然後匯率又會影響到後面進出口產業，所以您怎麼看這個情形呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：現在我所講的股市跟匯率，這個問題是在於外資，我們只是說外資，跟投資人去投資股票沒關係。"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道，我現在講的是另外的議題。"],["楊總裁金龍：如果就匯率的問題的話，最近會貶主要是因為外資獲利了結。"],["陳委員玉珍：獲利匯出，金額相當龐大，所以央行現在還是要扮演一定的角色。"],["楊總裁金龍：我們要穩定匯率。"],["陳委員玉珍：要穩定匯率，讓進出口這個地方能維持一定的平衡，所以在匯率方面還是會維持穩健的做法嘛？"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：那在房地產方面，大概就是金融機構的這個做法……"],["楊總裁金龍：房地產現在就是滾動式檢討，我們的政策就是這樣。"],["陳委員玉珍：我想市場上也開始擔心現在很多人投入股市，因為股市實在漲得很多，不知道會不會再繼續漲，這個我們也不了解，但很多人可能就擁有比較多的股票，因為獲利多，現在就普遍投入。第一個、整個金融性結構進來，接著可能有另外一種狀況，錢是不是就會流到房市，當然現在新青安有先暫……會不會因為這樣又造成房地產比較巨大的波動？"],["楊總裁金龍：所以我才說我們的政策就是密切注意、滾動式檢討，讓目前整個市場的信用不要過度擴張，這是我們的目的。"],["陳委員玉珍：但是你現在的手段是由原來的不動產貸款集中度一年自主管理轉向了銀行自主控管，等於是把這個責任跟方向、信用度就交到了銀行手上，而不是……"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：這樣有可能達到好的效果嗎？原來是比較管控，現在是比較放鬆。"],["楊總裁金龍：我覺得銀行對市場的變化會比中央銀行來得敏感，為什麼？第一、因為它是第一線……"],["陳委員玉珍：那是當然。"],["楊總裁金龍：所以我們把這個權限還給它，對它來講也好，它在管理上會比較好，對整個市場的運作也比較健全。"],["陳委員玉珍：雖然你們理監事會開會好像沒有怎樣鬆綁，但事實上，這也是一種政策的鬆綁了，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：是，這也是鬆綁。"],["陳委員玉珍：只是房地產是不是完全軟著陸，您覺得降價幅度還是不夠，是不是？"],["楊總裁金龍：相較2020年以來的漲幅來講……"],["陳委員玉珍：相較之前的漲幅，它的跌幅還是不足的嘛？"],["楊總裁金龍：是，太慢了。"],["陳委員玉珍：OK，了解。"],["楊總裁金龍：只有一點點而已。"],["陳委員玉珍：但還是要兼顧因為少子化、育兒的部分，老百姓的需求也請您要特別注意。"],["楊總裁金龍：這個我們會。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，謝謝總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。我們結束陳玉珍委員的質詢。","接下來請林思銘委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":578,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-21","speakers":["李彥秀","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","林岱樺","劉書彬","賴士葆","李坤城","陳玉珍","林思銘","王世堅","羅明才","邱志偉","葉元之","洪毓祥","顏寬恒"],"page_start":527,"meetingDate":["2026-07-09"],"gazette_id":"1156102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156102_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍就「股市、通膨、匯率與房市多重風險中，中央銀行中長期因應策略與\n政策工具」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1156102_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}