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徹查啊所以你到現在認為沒有嘛沒有委員你們要查我們就尊重委員的查啊我告訴你很簡單啦"},{"start":137.168,"end":166.038,"text":"整篇的報告裡面也完全沒有在追究在檢討你們自己衛福部的責任我看過了我以為我們六月三十接到中聯通現在我們要檢討是廠商發現問題之後不要再跟我再繼續倒帶了我要繼續問問題來你部長致歉了沒有道歉了沒有我們對於這件事情我們當然致歉因為他影響了廠商沒有行政書師需要道歉嗎"},{"start":168.292,"end":187.434,"text":"來 我告訴你 連部長本身都有檢討誠意 公開道歉你在這邊 你到底在凹什麼民眾期待政府就是一個嚴格的把關我們來看看 我要問你 請教你請問現在有問題的油品總量到底是多少"},{"start":190.439,"end":209.147,"text":"現在我們在中聯這邊我們接獲的以及後續在7月12號我們又接到一批他們的通知所以目前檢驗從4月份到6月份中聯這邊檢驗到有問題的有5批郵品但是我們4月到6月5批但是我們4月到6月現在全部預防性下架多少量"},{"start":215.65,"end":220.275,"text":"預防性下架總共2000我要請媒體朋友跟所有的台灣民眾看看啦這就是衛福部次長"},{"start":228.203,"end":244.276,"text":"我們請曾氏就曾氏可以讓我唸現在我問你多少量所以我現在繼續把報告再唸一遍我現在要唸的現在我們預防性下架的包含預防性下架的所有跟中聯有關的總共是27532.7公噸非常謝謝您啊光一個27000噸我就要問個兩分鐘沒關係啊"},{"start":257.438,"end":258.983,"text":"你要拖時間後面還有別的立委從"},{"start":263.207,"end":273.65,"text":"衛福部7月對外宣布到現在兩週從1300噸變成2600噸現在變成你口中的27000噸還會更多目前在中聯我們是4到6月你認為有問題你預防性下降就認為可能有問題嘛我們4到6月預防性下降所以全部27532那請問還會更多 還有沒有更多"},{"start":287.774,"end":315.066,"text":"目前我們的檢驗到現在沒有更多就是這些都預防性下架了這個數字從一千三暴增到兩千六現在變成可能預防性下架兩萬七千噸我告訴你啊全國民眾看著食藥署這種慢半拍荒腔走板的執行越查越多越查越離譜來再來我想請教業者部分當然進入司法調查我知道"},{"start":316.36,"end":328.877,"text":"我繼續問行政責任行政院衛福部跟食藥署有受到任何處分嗎有任何行政調查追溯政治責任管理責任跟決策責任嗎有沒有目前為止有沒有"},{"start":330.461,"end":350.92,"text":"你是問行政院還是問行政院上級長官啊如果行政宿舍他要啟動啊我們現在持續都跟長官這邊進行報告我沒有啦行政院開始啟動行政調查了你們針對你們行政宿舍我們開始啟動行政調查這個委員你問我不知道你不知道啊來衛福部有沒有"},{"start":353.547,"end":377.128,"text":"我們目前正在全力的把這個目前的食安狀況處理好讓民眾可以安心游遊所以也沒進行行政疏失的調查嗎現在對於這些油廠我們進行的是司法上的處理我告訴你不要講別的啦我幫劉建國抱屈啦講了也是白講講了也是白講到目前為止結論很簡單又清楚又明白嘛"},{"start":378.51,"end":398.001,"text":"你們並沒有負責任的意思啊中央政府顯然認為即便衛福部是食安法主管機關就算現在民怨沸騰又如何你奈我何啊只要你今天回答的態度像跟次長你的回答態度一樣報告唸一唸就結束了事啊我不跟你講不用講別的事情我光倒帶一件事情看到這個報告讓全民來檢驗啦"},{"start":409.195,"end":435.081,"text":"你這報告連那2.7萬多你都不敢寫進去一定要問了半天來我要告訴你中央的責任跟疏失在哪裡我來告訴你4月業者自主查出問題之後至少盡力4次業者查驗超標到6月底中央才知道你們結果是7月1號只要求問題的原油跟分裝品下架"},{"start":436.141,"end":443.887,"text":"第二層產品是不處理的數百個家下游名單不公開這是你們第一時間的危機處理來來來 我只告訴你事實發生如何民眾去公平嘛"},{"start":455.516,"end":480.821,"text":"7月4號開始轉彎擴大下架然後就端出一個油製品成分超過20%者需下架的標準到7月7號再度大轉彎全數預防性下架我說光看你們今天通報後的決策數天數變完全看著輿論風向走嘛先拖到什麼程度擠牙膏擠到什麼程度我們就下架到哪裡"},{"start":485.117,"end":498.847,"text":"我想要請問 食安等不等同國安啊各式各樣的都是國安是嘛等同人民的生命安全啊當然是國家有大問題啊結果你們用什麼方式來去做滿不滿意不用我來講讓你們執政黨立委自己講讓今天全國民眾來講來 接下來喔我來請教一下我們部長"},{"start":516.443,"end":524.018,"text":"目前掌握數字獨遊流進學校數量是多少我們因應措施有完備嗎跟委員報告我們確實在7月1號"},{"start":526.676,"end":547.409,"text":"收到這樣一個訊息馬上這一個國教署就從我們的這個平台上第一天馬上就收集到有一千三百八十所學校是有用到中聯這三家的一個大概量是多少然後呢"},{"start":548.129,"end":568.441,"text":"我們就請各地方縣市政府開始教育局處去查那麼查的時候第一批在7月7號的時候我們大概發現到有這一個五個縣市有228個學校是有使用全部下架在這第一波然後第二波到7月7號又公布第二波的時候我們"},{"start":569.901,"end":598.65,"text":"這個7月9號再公布了7月7號是232的這個品項7月9號440個品項我們根據這個馬上有20個縣市好 謝謝部長 謝謝部長我要告訴你喔起碼次長看一看啦至少願意回答問題啊但是我要拜託今天部長還有後面的次長你就知道今天食安問題有多大"},{"start":599.884,"end":622.205,"text":"上千所學校也受牽連教育部不是食安法主管機關但是有責任為今天食藥署衛福部把關不嚴今天已經串到校園來部長 你能不能擔保今天我們學校的校園學生的食安不會受這個食油的安全問題所波及影響"},{"start":623.308,"end":633.709,"text":"跟委員報告我們建立這個平台確實每一天的一個食材都透明公開而且要上網繼續努力啦謝謝部長謝謝謝謝委員部長我想請教你下一個問題喔"},{"start":635.587,"end":663.559,"text":"這回有到教文委員會我其實一直在做我們選區的學校的實際的訪談跟所謂的那個請益那過去我跟部長也反映過教師荒的問題那也有很多的校長跟我反映有行政大逃亡的問題就是說行政業務越來越多排擠教學心理也讓很多的老師不敢踏入教職甚至許多學校連主任職都找不到"},{"start":664.139,"end":688.577,"text":"那我知道教育部有提出一些支持增補行政能力的計畫包括國中有增製學務能力嘛其他成績也有類似那我肯定教育部的態度啦但是我這邊有一個建議希望政府有意願來幫助但應該要真正落實政策的美意我遇到有些國中校長有這樣建議他說國中美校是增製一位能力"},{"start":689.338,"end":710.761,"text":"但實際上教育現場的行政能力還是非常缺而且因為每個學校的學生人數事情繁雜度不一全部所有學校都是以一個人來去編配那對於人就是學生數校園規模比較大的學校他們就人力緊缺的問題比較嚴重所以他們"},{"start":712.342,"end":739.791,"text":"認為說可不可以調整以學生人數為基準讓學生數越多的學校可以有越多的人力比方說在學校的護理師也是用學生人數來評估的嘛那我的建議也就是校長們的建議說綜合學校空間標準跟教育現場的建議是否可以調整以實體班為計算標準36班含以下的補一人37班以上就可以有兩人"},{"start":740.111,"end":748.221,"text":"我不知道部長可不可以幫忙我們這些學校的教育現場的人力不足給這樣的一個後盾跟幫助"},{"start":749.504,"end":772.852,"text":"謝謝委員關心教育品質包括減少我們老師的一個行政壓力我想確實現在的挑戰是比較大也跟委員報告去年我們會協務人力會增加是沒有我進來以後在年度的預算並沒有變成這個我們內部調整但是我先謝謝你啦我先謝謝你就是說增加一個有幫助"},{"start":773.492,"end":800.444,"text":"說明說委員的建議我們也會考慮在未來我們希望在年度的預算能夠編進去然後能夠用班級考量它的一個規模初步我們因為沒有預算我們算是內部應試起來也聽到也看到了這個地方的一個聲音我先謝謝部長了那這個意見麻煩我們教育部再去研議一下我覺得校長提的意見很有道理就是看學校規模來去設計能力的編排"},{"start":802.245,"end":817.936,"text":"那另外也是幫我們學生來請願政府一直在宣傳高中職跟五專前三年全面免納學費這也是德政那減輕了很多青年學子跟家長的負擔那這點我是給您肯定但是"},{"start":818.977,"end":836.012,"text":"事實上同樣國中畢業去就讀私立的學校私立高中職跟私立武專其他平均的補助金額還是有非常大的差別我舉個例子我這邊拿到資料103年以來私立高中職最高每升每學期補助金額從103年的22,800元調整到114年的26,000"},{"start":844.179,"end":856.646,"text":"261,162元已經調漲了4次那學費因為師資人士變動學費更的提高可是五專每升每學期補助金額我們可以看到教育部拿到的資料"},{"start":858.787,"end":867.878,"text":"103年平均每升是用一整學年而不是一個學期103年平均每升每學年補助金額是19643元到114年變成19219元還縮水"},{"start":875.606,"end":898.348,"text":"那五專是培育我們國家專業的人才那未來學生有專業技能也可以補上很多專業產業的缺口因為這邊時間有限啦我把這問題拋出來我希望教育部能夠給我一個報告說這個部分你們覺得是不是能夠來幫助我們今天那個學生們來去在補助上變得是更公平然後讓他們"},{"start":899.229,"end":912.827,"text":"同樣能夠接受到國家的德政讓年輕人在這個求學的階段可以得到更多的幫助謝謝委員提醒我想我們可以來研議因為高職的部分 居高的部分它確實會因為內科補助的這個協會會有不同"},{"start":916.391,"end":940.9,"text":"那這個五專這個部分我們看怎麼樣來縮短剛才委員所提的我們以實際性來研議然後希望來真正落實我們的本來這個免學會的這個政策能夠照顧到最後我先謝謝部長反正這兩個部分都是我想請部裡面給我一個報告讓我們一起來研商最後我是給部長一個小小的建議"},{"start":943.821,"end":967.45,"text":"6月29號我們在審校士會議的時候我想部長應該知道在尤其在體權教育這部片引起很多人關心教育現場問題的時候校士會議的改進跟檢討已經變成全國教師認為的重中之重了我先不去細究今天你講所謂的這個請病假的過程我光講一件事情我希望部長以後你還是要把它放在心上"},{"start":968.755,"end":988.832,"text":"在老師們覺得這麼重要的校師會議的改革的議程上立法院排了他已經不是尊重立法院的問題而已他也包括今天全國老師心心念念希望部長能夠在這個教育改革的現場立法院的現場能夠來展現出今天"},{"start":989.913,"end":1017.314,"text":"幫助老師來去解決教育現場困境的一個態度但是我覺得真的很遺憾你那天選擇的是去彰化陪候選人去視察當然你認為視察也重要啦可是這兩件事情的輕重緩急我覺得這是部長第一個要給你提醒的那第二個就是當然我也要必須說啦因為6月18號下午你請假的時候那時候我是站在羅廷維召委旁邊你那時候確實身體不舒服吧"},{"start":1018.675,"end":1043.935,"text":"18號謝謝委員喔我也利用這個機會澄清一下沒有我知道你沒有講你請假是18號不是29號好沒關係可是我要這邊跟你部長你講兩件事嘛第一個就是在當時6月18號我在羅廷偉旁邊聽到你身體不適我們還請你多保重對不對所以我心存感激其實那一天中午我要離開有有有有有這個召委跟您都有送我到門口部長先等我講完啦齁我只是要把問題釐清給你建議啦"},{"start":1047.378,"end":1068.716,"text":"我覺得基本上羅昭偉那時候也是一個體恤不長身體的狀況但是那時候確實在旁邊我的感覺是你只要身體的狀況沒改變的話基本上你會在這種狀況之下你不會來立法院嘛所以羅昭偉跟我們認知到你身體不舒服不來立法院可是今天將心比心當立法院審查校事會議的時候"},{"start":1070.057,"end":1091.248,"text":"我們停留在你6月18號身體不舒服所以你沒有來當然認為是身體不舒服沒來嘛結果你到了彰化去陪著這個縣長的參選人來去考察那這個東西基本上我覺得外界有誤意啊部長我覺得你還是可以把它放在心上但是真正重要重點我還是提醒部長那天是審查校師會議啊"},{"start":1092.674,"end":1119.606,"text":"大家都那麼關心這件事情就部長這個輕重環境你的選擇感謝委員的提醒但是我也必須要澄清當時我們事實上也跟召委請假然後事實上也不是用病假然後我也要跟委員報告我到地方去如果委員有觀察到我特別會到偏鄉原來的農業縣市我不會到我比較稍微用時間到了我就給你一個簡單的建議我要跟委員報告"},{"start":1120.086,"end":1141.204,"text":"包含那一天 地下不爭官啦是 謝依鳳委員也是我辦公室特別通知謝委員說我會到彰化去看地方的一切我要利用這個機會跟委員報告我只要到地方一定會跟地方縣市的教育部級處長做通知我是給你一個建議啦"},{"start":1145.968,"end":1160.71,"text":"輕重環節還是要分啦我相信到地方考察的時間是很彈性的有各種時間可以安排但校式會議的那個審查就那一天啦所有老師睜大眼睛在看就是那一天身為教育部長"},{"start":1161.291,"end":1183.116,"text":"大家在看說希望教育部長在那個會議當中展現出當老師後盾的態度這一點給部長參考我也要跟委員報告感謝委員的一個關心確實我們這兩年來我進來教育部這兩年來沒有寒暑假我們原來過去我一直以為我寒暑假可以去看學校希望這個教學軟硬體能夠去改變但是我們到現在"},{"start":1185.837,"end":1195.026,"text":"我們現在立法院我們不然是法案審查選民服務也沒什麼寒暑假啦所以這個我覺得尊重你的感受我的建議就這麼簡單 以上謝謝委員提醒 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:35:11.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:35:14.105000+08:00","text":"有請鄭英耀部長跟林靜儀次長。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-13T09:35:14.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:35:14.346000+08:00","text":"有請部長、有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:35:14.346000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:35:25.783000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:35:25.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:35:50.182000+08:00","text":"我想先請教次長，食用油品出現一級致癌物，苯駢芘嚴重超標，變成食安風暴，我看到連執政黨的立委都痛批衛福部食藥署，說要追究行政疏失，然後認為你們的危機處理慢半拍。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:35:51.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:00.552000+08:00","text":"我想請教，針對執政黨立委這樣的質疑，我想請問我們的次長，你覺得衛福部有行政疏失嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:00.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:02.574000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員給我們這個時間說明，因為我們是6月30號收到中聯通知他們超標……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:02.574000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:03.574000+08:00","text":"我問你你覺得有沒有行政疏失？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:02.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:02.735000+08:00","text":"7月1號進行處理，那制度上面……","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:13.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:15.250000+08:00","text":"次長，你不需要把報告唸到完，我全部看完了……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:16.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:17.832000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，我們還是要說清楚……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:17.832000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:18.832000+08:00","text":"報告我看完啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:18.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:20.914000+08:00","text":"因為我們6月30號接到，但是……好啦！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:21.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:23.796000+08:00","text":"我直接做個結論，你認為沒有行政疏失嘛！","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:24.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:27.359000+08:00","text":"委員，我們剛剛提到的，後續如何在廠商這邊……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:27.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:29.061000+08:00","text":"連劉建國都要徹查行政疏失，你還在……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:31.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:36.306000+08:00","text":"後續在廠商這邊，他們什麼時候通報程序精進，這個部分一定要處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:36.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:42.734000+08:00","text":"人民的食安吞下肚，連你們執政黨立委都看不下去，我是幫劉建國抱屈啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:43.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:50.638000+08:00","text":"來，時間暫停，請官員針對委員質詢的問題直接回答，麥克風檢查一下有沒有問題，聲音怪怪的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:52.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:36:52.679000+08:00","text":"請繼續。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:36:52.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:00.483000+08:00","text":"我再重新問你一次，劉建國說要徹查行政疏失，你認為你有行政疏失嗎？","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:00.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:02.844000+08:00","text":"我們會尊重委員這邊的徹查。徹查？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:03.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:05.425000+08:00","text":"所以你到現在認為沒有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:05.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:07.306000+08:00","text":"委員你們要查，我們都尊重委員的查。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:07.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:08.067000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，很簡單啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:09.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:16.731000+08:00","text":"整篇的報告裡面也完全沒有在追究、在檢討你們自己衛福部的責任，我看過了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:17.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:19.692000+08:00","text":"委員，我們6月30號接到中聯通知……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:19.692000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:20.692000+08:00","text":"來，我要看看你有沒有問題……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:20.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:23.213000+08:00","text":"現在我們要檢討的是，廠商發現問題之後，delay這麼久……","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:23.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:29.275000+08:00","text":"不要再繼續倒帶了，我要繼續問問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:29.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:30.255000+08:00","text":"你部長致歉了沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:30.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:31.476000+08:00","text":"道歉了沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:32.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:34.297000+08:00","text":"對於這件事情，我們當然致歉，因為它影響非常大。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:34.297000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:36.017000+08:00","text":"謝謝啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:36.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:38.038000+08:00","text":"沒有行政疏失，需要道歉嗎？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:40.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:49.783000+08:00","text":"來，我告訴你，連部長本身都有檢討誠意，公開道歉，你在這邊到底在拗什麼？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:49.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:53.428000+08:00","text":"民眾期待政府就是嚴格把關啊！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:53.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:54.449000+08:00","text":"我們來看看，我要問你啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:37:55.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:37:59.414000+08:00","text":"請教你，請問現在有問題的油品總量到底是多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:02.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:16.405000+08:00","text":"現在我們在中聯這邊，我們接獲的以及後續在7月12號我們又接到一批他們的通知，所以目前檢驗從4月份到6月份，中聯這邊檢驗到有問題的有5批油品，但是我們4月到6月……5什麼？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:16.405000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:17.765500+08:00","text":"5批，5個批次……5批？","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:17.765500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:19.126000+08:00","text":"我問你量啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:19.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:19.947000+08:00","text":"但是我們4月到6月……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:19.947000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:20.947000+08:00","text":"民眾聽得懂批啊？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:20.947000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:21.947000+08:00","text":"我們4月到6月全部……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:21.947000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:22.947000+08:00","text":"多少量？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:20.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:20.547000+08:00","text":"現在全部預防性下架。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:20.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:21.127000+08:00","text":"多少量？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:27.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:28.411000+08:00","text":"預防性下架總共……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:28.411000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:29.411000+08:00","text":"再問你第3遍，多少量？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:29.411000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:30.411000+08:00","text":"委員，預防性下架總共2,000……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:30.411000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:31.411000+08:00","text":"時間請暫停。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:31.411000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:32.411000+08:00","text":"不好意思。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:28.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:32.275000+08:00","text":"我要請媒體朋友跟所有我們臺灣民眾看看，這就是衛福部次長。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:40.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:42.105000+08:00","text":"我們請政次就針對……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:42.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:43.786000+08:00","text":"可以讓我唸……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:44.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:47.669000+08:00","text":"我問你多少量，你就繼續把報告再唸一遍。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:48.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:54.735000+08:00","text":"委員，我現在要唸的，現在我們預防性下架的……包含預防性下架的，所有跟中聯有關的總共是2萬7,532.7公噸。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:54.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:55.416000+08:00","text":"非常謝謝您啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:38:55.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:38:56.256000+08:00","text":"光一個2萬7,000噸，我就要問個2分鐘，沒關係啊！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:39:09.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:39:10.963000+08:00","text":"你要拖時間，後面還有別的立委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:39:10.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:39:20.209000+08:00","text":"從衛福部7月對外宣布到現在兩週，從1,300噸變成2,600噸，現在變成你口中的2萬7,000噸。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:39:20.209000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:39:21.209000+08:00","text":"預防性下架。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:39:20.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:39:20.329000+08:00","text":"還會更多、還會更多。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:39:20.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:39:21.229000+08:00","text":"目前在中聯，我們4月到6月……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:39:21.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:39:21.729000+08:00","text":"你不認為有問題？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:39:21.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:39:22.649000+08:00","text":"你預防性下架就認為可能有問題嘛！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:39:22.649000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:39:23.649000+08:00","text":"好像很了不起啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:39:22.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:39:24.030000+08:00","text":"我們4到6月預防性下架，全部2萬7,532。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:39:24.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:39:24.350000+08:00","text":"請問還有沒有更多？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:39:24.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:39:25.630000+08:00","text":"還有沒有更多？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:39:39.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:39:44.076000+08:00","text":"目前我們的檢驗到現在沒有更多，這些都預防性下架了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:39:44.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:02.324000+08:00","text":"這個數字從1,300暴增到2,600，現在變成可能預防性下架2萬7,000噸，我告訴你，全國民眾看著食藥署這種慢半拍、荒腔走板的執行，越查越多、越查越離譜。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:02.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:14.929000+08:00","text":"再來，我想請教，業者部分當然進入司法調查，我知道，我繼續問行政責任，行政院、衛福部跟食藥署有受到任何處分嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:14.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:19.035000+08:00","text":"有任何行政調查追溯政治責任、管理責任跟決策責任嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:19.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:19.235000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:20.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:20.857000+08:00","text":"目前為止有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:22.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:24.583000+08:00","text":"你是問行政院還是問……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:24.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:26.004000+08:00","text":"行政院上級長官啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:26.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:28.186000+08:00","text":"如果有行政疏失就要啟動，不是嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:28.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:30.909000+08:00","text":"我們現在都有持續跟長官進行報告，今天早上行政院的會議也還在跟長官報告我們所有檢查的結果。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:31.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:31.369000+08:00","text":"有沒有啦？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:31.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:36.394000+08:00","text":"行政院開始啟動行政調查了沒？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:37.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:39.457000+08:00","text":"針對你們的行政疏失有沒有開始啟動行政調查？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:40.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:40.878000+08:00","text":"委員你問我這個我不知道。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:41.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:42.160000+08:00","text":"你不知道啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:42.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:42.900000+08:00","text":"衛福部，有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:46.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:49.771000+08:00","text":"衛福部正在全力地把目前的食安狀況處理好，讓民眾可以安心用油。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:49.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:53.574000+08:00","text":"所以也沒進行行政疏失的調查嘛！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:53.574000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:55.156000+08:00","text":"沒有嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:55.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:57.858000+08:00","text":"現在對於這些油廠我們進行的是司法上面的處理。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:58.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:40:59.279000+08:00","text":"不要講別的啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:40:59.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:41:05.404000+08:00","text":"我幫劉建國抱屈，講了也是白講。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:41:05.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:41:09.108000+08:00","text":"到目前為止，結論很簡單，既清楚又明白嘛！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:41:10.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:41:12.051000+08:00","text":"你們並沒有要負責任的意思啊！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:41:12.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:41:20.896000+08:00","text":"中央政府顯然認為即便衛福部是食安法的主管機關，就算現在民怨沸騰又如何？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:41:21.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:41:21.916000+08:00","text":"是你奈我何嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:41:21.916000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:41:23.177000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們現在已預防性下架，對中聯已經開罰一億多了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:41:23.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:41:26.599000+08:00","text":"只要……回答的態度跟次長今天回答的態度一樣，報告唸一唸就結束了事了。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:41:26.599000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:41:27.599000+08:00","text":"我們現在懷疑中聯的油品，所以除了預防性下架之外，就算它能夠符合標準，我們也不會讓它繼續生產。","quality":0.048},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:41:26.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:41:45.396000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，你不用講別的事情，次長，我光是……一件事，把這份報告讓全民檢驗，你這個報告就連2.7萬噸都不敢寫進去啦，一定要我在這邊問了半天！","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:41:45.396000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:41:47.376000+08:00","text":"委員，我們都有固定公布這個流向……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:41:47.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:41:51.517000+08:00","text":"來，我要告訴次長，中央的責任跟疏失在哪裡，我來告訴您。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:41:52.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:42:14.546000+08:00","text":"4月業者自主查出問題之後，至少經歷4次業者查驗超標，到6月底中央才知道，你們的結果是7月1號只要求問題的原油跟分裝品下架，對第二層產品是不處理的，數百家下游的名單不公開，這是你們第一時間的危機處理啦！","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:42:14.546000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:42:15.546000+08:00","text":"委員，那是依照106年食品的下架原則在做的，所以剛剛報告我們也會針對這個進行檢討。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:42:15.546000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:42:16.546000+08:00","text":"你的理由很多啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:42:14.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:42:15.767000+08:00","text":"我只是告訴你發生的事實是如何，讓民眾去公評吧！","quality":0.619},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:42:27.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:42:40.439000+08:00","text":"7月4號開始轉彎擴大下架，然後端出一個油製品成分超過20%者須下架的標準；7月7號再度大轉彎，全數預防性下架。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:42:41.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:42:48.260000+08:00","text":"我光看你們今天通報後的決策，數天數變完全是看輿論的風向在走嘛！","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:42:48.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:42:49.981000+08:00","text":"先拖到什麼程度？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:42:50.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:42:51.981000+08:00","text":"擠牙膏擠到什麼程度？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:42:51.981000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:42:52.981000+08:00","text":"到擠不下去了，再多擠一點，撐不下去就多擠一點。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:42:52.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:42:52.821000+08:00","text":"委員，我們的作法是證據到哪裡，我們就下架到哪裡。","quality":0.381},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:42:57.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:42:59.379000+08:00","text":"我想請問，食安等不等同國安？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:43:00.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:43:02.661000+08:00","text":"各式各樣都是國安。是嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:43:03.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:43:05.243000+08:00","text":"也等同人民的生命安全啊！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:43:06.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:43:06.684000+08:00","text":"當然是國家的大問題啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-13T09:43:06.684000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:43:07.684000+08:00","text":"所以我們有多少證據就做到哪裡，查到哪裡下架到哪裡。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:43:06.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:43:09.867000+08:00","text":"結果你們用這種方式在做，滿不滿意不用我來講，讓你們執政黨的立委自己講，讓今天全國民眾來講。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:43:09.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:43:31.509000+08:00","text":"接下來我要請教一下部長，目前掌握毒油流進學校的數量是多少？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:43:32.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:43:34.756000+08:00","text":"因應措施有完備嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:43:34.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:43:56.747000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們在7月1號收到這樣的訊息，國教署第一天就從我們的食安平台上收集到1,380所學校有用到中聯這三家的油品。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:43:57.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:43:58.348000+08:00","text":"我更精確地問，大概的量是多少？","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:43:58.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:44:34.045000+08:00","text":"然後我們就請各地方縣市政府教育局處開始去查，查到的第一批在7月7號的時候，我們發現大概有5個縣市228個學校有使用，於是全部下架，這是第一波；到7月7號又公布第二波的時候，7月7號公布了232個品項，7月9號公布了440個品項，我們根據這個又馬上通知了20個縣市……","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:44:35.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:44:41.867000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長，我來告訴你，起碼請次長看一看，至少部長願意回答問題。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:44:44.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:45:14.205000+08:00","text":"我今天要拜託部長，還有後面的次長，你就知道今天的食安問題有多大，上千所學校都受到牽連，教育部不是食安法的主管機關，但是有責任為今天衛福部食藥署的把關不嚴……今天已經竄到校園來，部長，你能不能擔保今天校園學生的食安不會受到這個食用油的安全問題波及影響？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:45:15.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:45:21.922000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們建立這個平台確實讓每天的食材都透明、公開，而且要上網登錄……","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:45:21.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:45:24.086000+08:00","text":"繼續努力，謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:45:24.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:45:24.347000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員提醒。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:45:24.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:45:35.971000+08:00","text":"部長，我想請教你下一個問題，這個會期我到教文委員會，其實是一直在做我選區學校的實際訪談跟所謂的請益。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:45:37.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:45:55.539000+08:00","text":"過去我跟部長反映過教師荒的問題，也有很多校長跟我反映有行政大逃亡的問題，因為行政業務愈來愈多而排擠教學心力，也讓很多老師不敢踏入教職，甚至許多學校連主任職都找不到。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:45:56.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:46:05.126000+08:00","text":"我知道教育部有提出一些支持增補行政人力的計畫，包括國中有增置學務人力，其他層級也有類似的。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:46:06.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:46:14.373000+08:00","text":"我肯定教育部的態度，但是我這邊也有一個建議，希望政府有意願幫助，但應該要真正落實政策的美意。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:46:15.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:46:25.122000+08:00","text":"我遇到某些國中校長是這樣建議的，說是國中每校是增置一位人力，但實際上教育現場的行政人力還是非常缺。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:46:25.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:46:51.485000+08:00","text":"而且因為每個學校的學生人數、事情繁雜度不一，所有學校全部都以一個人去編配，對於學生數、校園規模比較大的學校他們人力緊缺的問題就比較嚴重，所以他們認為可不可以調整成以學生人數為基準，讓學生數愈多的學校可以有愈多的人力。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:46:51.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:47:20.201000+08:00","text":"比方說，學校的護理師也是以學生人數來評估的，我的建議也是校長們的建議，建議綜合學校空間標準跟教育現場可以調整成以實體班為計算標準，36班（含）以下的補一人，37班以上的就可以有兩人，不知道部長可不可以針對這些學校教育現場不足的人力，給予這樣的後盾跟幫助？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:47:21.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:47:40.070000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員對教育品質的關心，包括減少老師的行政壓力，我想現在的挑戰確實是比較大，也跟委員報告，去年的學務人力會增加，是我進來以後……在年度的預算裡並沒有編列這個，是我們內部調整的，但是委員的建議是有價值的……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:47:40.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:47:44.832000+08:00","text":"部長，我先謝謝你，我說增加一個有幫助。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:47:45.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:48:03.720000+08:00","text":"委員的建議我們也會考慮，未來我們希望能編進年度的預算裡，然後能用班級、去考量它的規模，初步因為沒有預算，我們算是內部硬是擠出，有聽到也看到地方的聲音。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:48:03.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:48:12.424000+08:00","text":"我先謝謝部長，這個意見就麻煩教育部再去研議一下，我覺得校長提的意見很有道理，就是看學校的規模去設計人力的編排。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:48:14.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:48:28.856000+08:00","text":"另外也要幫學生請願，政府一直在宣傳高中職跟五專前三年全面免納學費，這也是德政，減輕了很多青年學子跟家長的負擔，這點我是給你肯定的。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:48:29.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:49:19.858000+08:00","text":"但是事實上同樣國中畢業去就讀私立的學校，私立高中職跟私立五專平均的補助金額還是有非常大的差別，我舉個例子，以我這邊拿到的資料來看，103年以來私立高中職最高每生每學期補助金額從103年的2萬2,800元，調到114年的2萬6,162元，已經調漲了4次，因為師資的人事變動，學費也跟著提高，可是五專每生每學期的補助金額，可以看到我從教育部拿到的資料，103年一整學年（不是一個學期）平均每生每學年的補助金額是1萬9,643元，到114年變成1萬9,219元，還縮水了。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:49:27.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:49:34.493000+08:00","text":"五專是培育國家專業的人才，讓學生未來擁有專業技能，也可以補上很多產業的專業缺口。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:49:34.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:49:58.418000+08:00","text":"因為今天時間有限，我把這個問題拋出來，希望教育部能夠給我一個報告，告知這個部分是不是能夠幫學生在補助上變得更公平，讓他們同樣能夠接受國家的德政，讓年輕人在求學的階段可以得到更多的幫助？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:49:59.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:50:22.356000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的提醒，我想我們可以來研議，因為高職、技高的部分確實會因為類科不同，所以補助的學費也不同，對五專這個部分，我們看怎麼樣解決剛才委員所提的問題，我們會與時俱進來研議，希望真正落實我們本來這個免學費的政策，能夠照顧到學生。","quality":0.777},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:50:23.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:50:30.579000+08:00","text":"我先謝謝部長，關於這兩個部分，我想請部裡面給我一個報告，讓我們一起來研商。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:50:31.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:50:59.430000+08:00","text":"最後我要給部長一個小小的建議，我們在6月29號審查關於校事會議的法案，我想部長應該知道，尤其因為「鐵拳教育」這部影片引起很多人關心教育現場的問題，校事會議的改進跟檢討已經被全國教師認為是重中之重，我先不去細究今天你講的請病假的這個過程，我光講一件事情，我希望部長以後還是要把它放在心上。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:51:00.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:51:38.806000+08:00","text":"在老師們覺得這麼重要的校事會議改革的議程上，立法院排了，這已經不只是尊重立法院的問題而已，它也包括今天全國老師心心念念的，希望部長能夠在教育改革的現場、在立法院的現場展現出幫助老師解決教育現場困境的態度，但是我真的覺得很遺憾，因為你那天選擇去彰化陪候選人視察，當然你認為視察也重要，可是我覺得這兩件事情有分輕重緩急，這是我第一個要提醒部長的。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:51:39.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:51:48.973000+08:00","text":"第二個，當然我也必須要說，在你6月18號下午請假的時候我站在羅廷瑋召委旁邊，你那時候確實身體不舒服，對不對？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:51:50.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:51:53.037000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，我也利用這個機會澄清一下……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:51:53.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:51:57.981000+08:00","text":"我知道，你有講你請假是18號，不是29號。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:51:57.981000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:51:58.981000+08:00","text":"是18號，不是29號。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:51:58.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:52:08.369000+08:00","text":"沒關係，可是我要在這邊跟部長講兩件事，第一個，6月18號那天我在羅廷瑋旁邊聽到你身體不適，當時我們還請你多保重，對不對？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:52:08.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:52:14.574000+08:00","text":"是，所以我心存感激，其實那一天中午我要離開的時候，召委跟您都有送我到門口，我其實心存感激。","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:52:14.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:52:15.915000+08:00","text":"部長，先等我講完，我只是要把問題釐清然後給你建議。是。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:52:19.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:52:47.460000+08:00","text":"我覺得基本上羅召委那時候也是體恤部長身體的狀況，但是那時候我人站在旁邊，我的感覺是你只要身體的狀況沒有改變的話，基本上你在這種狀況之下不會來立法院，所以羅召委跟我們的認知是你因為身體不舒服才不來立法院，可是今天將心比心，當立法院審查校事會議法案的時候，我們停留在你6月18號說你身體不舒服，你29號沒有來，我們當然認為你是身體不舒服所以沒來嘛！","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:52:48.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:53:08.296000+08:00","text":"結果你是到彰化去陪縣長的參選人去考察，基本上，因為外界有物議，我覺得部長可以把它放在心上，但是我還是要提醒部長真正重要的重點，那一天是審查校事會議的法案，大家都那麼關心這件事情，事情有輕重緩急，部長的選擇……","quality":0.691},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:53:08.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:53:28.104000+08:00","text":"感謝委員的提醒，但是我也必須要澄清，當時事實上我有跟召委請假，並不是請病假，然後我也要跟委員報告，我到地方去，如果委員有觀察到，我特別會到偏鄉、原來的農業縣市，我比較少到六都……","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:53:29.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:53:30.725000+08:00","text":"部長，我的時間到了，我就給你一個簡單的建議，瓜田不納履，李下不整冠……","quality":0.517},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:53:30.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:53:52.123000+08:00","text":"我要跟委員報告，我辦公室特別通知謝衣鳯委員我會到彰化去看地方的一些……我要利用這個機會跟委員報告，我只要到地方，一定會跟地方縣市的教育局處長做……","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:53:52.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:53:59.310000+08:00","text":"部長，最後我要給你一個建議，輕重緩急還是要分啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:54:00.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:54:19.673000+08:00","text":"我相信到地方考察的時間是很彈性的，有各種時間可以安排，但是審查校事會議的法案就是在那一天，那一天所有老師都睜大眼睛在看，你身為教育部長，大家希望教育部長在這個會議當中展現出當老師後盾的態度，這一點給部長參考。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:54:20.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:54:35.096000+08:00","text":"我也要跟委員報告，感謝委員的關心，確實從我進來教育部這兩年來都沒有寒暑假，過去我一直以為我在寒暑假可以去看學校，希望教學軟硬體能夠改變，但是我們到現在……","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:54:37.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:54:42.281000+08:00","text":"部長，我們現在立法院不管是法案審查還是選民服務，也沒有什麼寒暑假。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2026-07-13T09:54:44.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:54:46.826000+08:00","text":"我尊重你的感受，我的建議就這麼簡單，以上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-07-13T09:54:46.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-13T09:54:47.026000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的提醒，謝謝。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席（葉委員元之代）","start":"2026-07-13T09:54:47.526000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:54:51.811714+08:00","text":"謝謝羅智強委員，謝謝部長，部長請回。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（葉委員元之代）","start":"2026-07-13T09:54:52.111714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-13T09:54:54.968857+08:00","text":"現在請羅廷瑋召委質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2266,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（9時35分）有請鄭英耀部長跟林靜儀次長。"],["主席：有請部長、有請次長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員早。"],["羅委員智強：我想先請教次長，食用油品出現一級致癌物，苯駢芘嚴重超標，變成食安風暴，我看到連執政黨的立委都痛批衛福部食藥署，說要追究行政疏失，然後認為你們的危機處理慢半拍。我想請教，針對執政黨立委這樣的質疑，我想請問我們的次長，你覺得衛福部有行政疏失嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：謝謝委員給我們這個時間說明，因為我們是6月30號收到中聯通知他們超標……"],["羅委員智強：我問你你覺得有沒有行政疏失？"],["林次長靜儀：7月1號進行處理，那制度上面……"],["羅委員智強：次長，你不需要把報告唸到完，我全部看完了……"],["林次長靜儀：謝謝委員，我們還是要說清楚……"],["羅委員智強：報告我看完啦！"],["林次長靜儀：因為我們6月30號接到，但是……"],["羅委員智強：好啦！我直接做個結論，你認為沒有行政疏失嘛！"],["林次長靜儀：委員，我們剛剛提到的，後續如何在廠商這邊……"],["羅委員智強：連劉建國都要徹查行政疏失，你還在……"],["林次長靜儀：後續在廠商這邊，他們什麼時候通報程序精進，這個部分一定要處理。"],["羅委員智強：人民的食安吞下肚，連你們執政黨立委都看不下去，我是幫劉建國抱屈啊！"],["主席：來，時間暫停，請官員針對委員質詢的問題直接回答，麥克風檢查一下有沒有問題，聲音怪怪的。請繼續。"],["羅委員智強：我再重新問你一次，劉建國說要徹查行政疏失，你認為你有行政疏失嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：我們會尊重委員這邊的徹查。"],["羅委員智強：徹查？所以你到現在認為沒有嘛！"],["林次長靜儀：委員你們要查，我們都尊重委員的查。"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，很簡單啦！整篇的報告裡面也完全沒有在追究、在檢討你們自己衛福部的責任，我看過了。"],["林次長靜儀：委員，我們6月30號接到中聯通知……"],["羅委員智強：來，我要看看你有沒有問題……"],["林次長靜儀：現在我們要檢討的是，廠商發現問題之後，delay這麼久……"],["羅委員智強：不要再繼續倒帶了，我要繼續問問題。你部長致歉了沒有？道歉了沒有？"],["林次長靜儀：對於這件事情，我們當然致歉，因為它影響非常大。"],["羅委員智強：謝謝啊！沒有行政疏失，需要道歉嗎？來，我告訴你，連部長本身都有檢討誠意，公開道歉，你在這邊到底在拗什麼？民眾期待政府就是嚴格把關啊！我們來看看，我要問你啦！請教你，請問現在有問題的油品總量到底是多少？"],["林次長靜儀：現在我們在中聯這邊，我們接獲的以及後續在7月12號我們又接到一批他們的通知，所以目前檢驗從4月份到6月份，中聯這邊檢驗到有問題的有5批油品，但是我們4月到6月……"],["羅委員智強：5什麼？"],["林次長靜儀：5批，5個批次……"],["羅委員智強：5批？我問你量啊！"],["林次長靜儀：但是我們4月到6月……"],["羅委員智強：民眾聽得懂批啊？"],["林次長靜儀：我們4月到6月全部……"],["羅委員智強：多少量？"],["林次長靜儀：現在全部預防性下架。"],["羅委員智強：多少量？"],["林次長靜儀：預防性下架總共……"],["羅委員智強：再問你第3遍，多少量？"],["林次長靜儀：委員，預防性下架總共2,000……"],["主席：時間請暫停。不好意思。"],["羅委員智強：我要請媒體朋友跟所有我們臺灣民眾看看，這就是衛福部次長。"],["主席：我們請政次就針對……"],["林次長靜儀：可以讓我唸……"],["羅委員智強：我問你多少量，你就繼續把報告再唸一遍。"],["林次長靜儀：委員，我現在要唸的，現在我們預防性下架的……包含預防性下架的，所有跟中聯有關的總共是2萬7,532.7公噸。"],["羅委員智強：非常謝謝您啊！光一個2萬7,000噸，我就要問個2分鐘，沒關係啊！你要拖時間，後面還有別的立委。從衛福部7月對外宣布到現在兩週，從1,300噸變成2,600噸，現在變成你口中的2萬7,000噸。"],["林次長靜儀：預防性下架。"],["羅委員智強：還會更多、還會更多。"],["林次長靜儀：目前在中聯，我們4月到6月……"],["羅委員智強：你不認為有問題？你預防性下架就認為可能有問題嘛！好像很了不起啊！"],["林次長靜儀：我們4到6月預防性下架，全部2萬7,532。"],["羅委員智強：請問還有沒有更多？還有沒有更多？"],["林次長靜儀：目前我們的檢驗到現在沒有更多，這些都預防性下架了。"],["羅委員智強：這個數字從1,300暴增到2,600，現在變成可能預防性下架2萬7,000噸，我告訴你，全國民眾看著食藥署這種慢半拍、荒腔走板的執行，越查越多、越查越離譜。","再來，我想請教，業者部分當然進入司法調查，我知道，我繼續問行政責任，行政院、衛福部跟食藥署有受到任何處分嗎？有任何行政調查追溯政治責任、管理責任跟決策責任嗎？有沒有？目前為止有沒有？"],["林次長靜儀：你是問行政院還是問……"],["羅委員智強：行政院上級長官啊！如果有行政疏失就要啟動，不是嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：我們現在都有持續跟長官進行報告，今天早上行政院的會議也還在跟長官報告我們所有檢查的結果。"],["羅委員智強：有沒有啦？行政院開始啟動行政調查了沒？針對你們的行政疏失有沒有開始啟動行政調查？"],["林次長靜儀：委員你問我這個我不知道。"],["羅委員智強：你不知道啊！衛福部，有沒有？"],["林次長靜儀：衛福部正在全力地把目前的食安狀況處理好，讓民眾可以安心用油。"],["羅委員智強：所以也沒進行行政疏失的調查嘛！沒有嘛！"],["林次長靜儀：現在對於這些油廠我們進行的是司法上面的處理。"],["羅委員智強：不要講別的啦！我幫劉建國抱屈，講了也是白講。到目前為止，結論很簡單，既清楚又明白嘛！你們並沒有要負責任的意思啊！中央政府顯然認為即便衛福部是食安法的主管機關，就算現在民怨沸騰又如何？是你奈我何嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：報告委員，我們現在已預防性下架，對中聯已經開罰一億多了。"],["羅委員智強：只要……回答的態度跟次長今天回答的態度一樣，報告唸一唸就結束了事了。"],["林次長靜儀：我們現在懷疑中聯的油品，所以除了預防性下架之外，就算它能夠符合標準，我們也不會讓它繼續生產。"],["羅委員智強：我跟你講，你不用講別的事情，次長，我光是……一件事，把這份報告讓全民檢驗，你這個報告就連2.7萬噸都不敢寫進去啦，一定要我在這邊問了半天！"],["林次長靜儀：委員，我們都有固定公布這個流向……"],["羅委員智強：來，我要告訴次長，中央的責任跟疏失在哪裡，我來告訴您。4月業者自主查出問題之後，至少經歷4次業者查驗超標，到6月底中央才知道，你們的結果是7月1號只要求問題的原油跟分裝品下架，對第二層產品是不處理的，數百家下游的名單不公開，這是你們第一時間的危機處理啦！"],["林次長靜儀：委員，那是依照106年食品的下架原則在做的，所以剛剛報告我們也會針對這個進行檢討。"],["羅委員智強：你的理由很多啦！我只是告訴你發生的事實是如何，讓民眾去公評吧！7月4號開始轉彎擴大下架，然後端出一個油製品成分超過20%者須下架的標準；7月7號再度大轉彎，全數預防性下架。我光看你們今天通報後的決策，數天數變完全是看輿論的風向在走嘛！先拖到什麼程度？擠牙膏擠到什麼程度？到擠不下去了，再多擠一點，撐不下去就多擠一點。"],["林次長靜儀：委員，我們的作法是證據到哪裡，我們就下架到哪裡。"],["羅委員智強：我想請問，食安等不等同國安？"],["林次長靜儀：各式各樣都是國安。"],["羅委員智強：是嘛！也等同人民的生命安全啊！當然是國家的大問題啊！"],["林次長靜儀：所以我們有多少證據就做到哪裡，查到哪裡下架到哪裡。"],["羅委員智強：結果你們用這種方式在做，滿不滿意不用我來講，讓你們執政黨的立委自己講，讓今天全國民眾來講。","接下來我要請教一下部長，目前掌握毒油流進學校的數量是多少？因應措施有完備嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們在7月1號收到這樣的訊息，國教署第一天就從我們的食安平台上收集到1,380所學校有用到中聯這三家的油品。"],["羅委員智強：我更精確地問，大概的量是多少？"],["鄭部長英耀：然後我們就請各地方縣市政府教育局處開始去查，查到的第一批在7月7號的時候，我們發現大概有5個縣市228個學校有使用，於是全部下架，這是第一波；到7月7號又公布第二波的時候，7月7號公布了232個品項，7月9號公布了440個品項，我們根據這個又馬上通知了20個縣市……"],["羅委員智強：謝謝部長，我來告訴你，起碼請次長看一看，至少部長願意回答問題。我今天要拜託部長，還有後面的次長，你就知道今天的食安問題有多大，上千所學校都受到牽連，教育部不是食安法的主管機關，但是有責任為今天衛福部食藥署的把關不嚴……今天已經竄到校園來，部長，你能不能擔保今天校園學生的食安不會受到這個食用油的安全問題波及影響？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們建立這個平台確實讓每天的食材都透明、公開，而且要上網登錄……"],["羅委員智強：繼續努力，謝謝部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒。"],["羅委員智強：部長，我想請教你下一個問題，這個會期我到教文委員會，其實是一直在做我選區學校的實際訪談跟所謂的請益。過去我跟部長反映過教師荒的問題，也有很多校長跟我反映有行政大逃亡的問題，因為行政業務愈來愈多而排擠教學心力，也讓很多老師不敢踏入教職，甚至許多學校連主任職都找不到。","我知道教育部有提出一些支持增補行政人力的計畫，包括國中有增置學務人力，其他層級也有類似的。我肯定教育部的態度，但是我這邊也有一個建議，希望政府有意願幫助，但應該要真正落實政策的美意。我遇到某些國中校長是這樣建議的，說是國中每校是增置一位人力，但實際上教育現場的行政人力還是非常缺。而且因為每個學校的學生人數、事情繁雜度不一，所有學校全部都以一個人去編配，對於學生數、校園規模比較大的學校他們人力緊缺的問題就比較嚴重，所以他們認為可不可以調整成以學生人數為基準，讓學生數愈多的學校可以有愈多的人力。","比方說，學校的護理師也是以學生人數來評估的，我的建議也是校長們的建議，建議綜合學校空間標準跟教育現場可以調整成以實體班為計算標準，36班（含）以下的補一人，37班以上的就可以有兩人，不知道部長可不可以針對這些學校教育現場不足的人力，給予這樣的後盾跟幫助？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員對教育品質的關心，包括減少老師的行政壓力，我想現在的挑戰確實是比較大，也跟委員報告，去年的學務人力會增加，是我進來以後……在年度的預算裡並沒有編列這個，是我們內部調整的，但是委員的建議是有價值的……"],["羅委員智強：部長，我先謝謝你，我說增加一個有幫助。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員的建議我們也會考慮，未來我們希望能編進年度的預算裡，然後能用班級、去考量它的規模，初步因為沒有預算，我們算是內部硬是擠出，有聽到也看到地方的聲音。"],["羅委員智強：我先謝謝部長，這個意見就麻煩教育部再去研議一下，我覺得校長提的意見很有道理，就是看學校的規模去設計人力的編排。","另外也要幫學生請願，政府一直在宣傳高中職跟五專前三年全面免納學費，這也是德政，減輕了很多青年學子跟家長的負擔，這點我是給你肯定的。但是事實上同樣國中畢業去就讀私立的學校，私立高中職跟私立五專平均的補助金額還是有非常大的差別，我舉個例子，以我這邊拿到的資料來看，103年以來私立高中職最高每生每學期補助金額從103年的2萬2,800元，調到114年的2萬6,162元，已經調漲了4次，因為師資的人事變動，學費也跟著提高，可是五專每生每學期的補助金額，可以看到我從教育部拿到的資料，103年一整學年（不是一個學期）平均每生每學年的補助金額是1萬9,643元，到114年變成1萬9,219元，還縮水了。","五專是培育國家專業的人才，讓學生未來擁有專業技能，也可以補上很多產業的專業缺口。因為今天時間有限，我把這個問題拋出來，希望教育部能夠給我一個報告，告知這個部分是不是能夠幫學生在補助上變得更公平，讓他們同樣能夠接受國家的德政，讓年輕人在求學的階段可以得到更多的幫助？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的提醒，我想我們可以來研議，因為高職、技高的部分確實會因為類科不同，所以補助的學費也不同，對五專這個部分，我們看怎麼樣解決剛才委員所提的問題，我們會與時俱進來研議，希望真正落實我們本來這個免學費的政策，能夠照顧到學生。"],["羅委員智強：我先謝謝部長，關於這兩個部分，我想請部裡面給我一個報告，讓我們一起來研商。","最後我要給部長一個小小的建議，我們在6月29號審查關於校事會議的法案，我想部長應該知道，尤其因為「鐵拳教育」這部影片引起很多人關心教育現場的問題，校事會議的改進跟檢討已經被全國教師認為是重中之重，我先不去細究今天你講的請病假的這個過程，我光講一件事情，我希望部長以後還是要把它放在心上。在老師們覺得這麼重要的校事會議改革的議程上，立法院排了，這已經不只是尊重立法院的問題而已，它也包括今天全國老師心心念念的，希望部長能夠在教育改革的現場、在立法院的現場展現出幫助老師解決教育現場困境的態度，但是我真的覺得很遺憾，因為你那天選擇去彰化陪候選人視察，當然你認為視察也重要，可是我覺得這兩件事情有分輕重緩急，這是我第一個要提醒部長的。第二個，當然我也必須要說，在你6月18號下午請假的時候我站在羅廷瑋召委旁邊，你那時候確實身體不舒服，對不對？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員，我也利用這個機會澄清一下……"],["羅委員智強：我知道，你有講你請假是18號，不是29號。"],["鄭部長英耀：是18號，不是29號。"],["羅委員智強：沒關係，可是我要在這邊跟部長講兩件事，第一個，6月18號那天我在羅廷瑋旁邊聽到你身體不適，當時我們還請你多保重，對不對？"],["鄭部長英耀：是，所以我心存感激，其實那一天中午我要離開的時候，召委跟您都有送我到門口，我其實心存感激。"],["羅委員智強：部長，先等我講完，我只是要把問題釐清然後給你建議。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["羅委員智強：我覺得基本上羅召委那時候也是體恤部長身體的狀況，但是那時候我人站在旁邊，我的感覺是你只要身體的狀況沒有改變的話，基本上你在這種狀況之下不會來立法院，所以羅召委跟我們的認知是你因為身體不舒服才不來立法院，可是今天將心比心，當立法院審查校事會議法案的時候，我們停留在你6月18號說你身體不舒服，你29號沒有來，我們當然認為你是身體不舒服所以沒來嘛！結果你是到彰化去陪縣長的參選人去考察，基本上，因為外界有物議，我覺得部長可以把它放在心上，但是我還是要提醒部長真正重要的重點，那一天是審查校事會議的法案，大家都那麼關心這件事情，事情有輕重緩急，部長的選擇……"],["鄭部長英耀：感謝委員的提醒，但是我也必須要澄清，當時事實上我有跟召委請假，並不是請病假，然後我也要跟委員報告，我到地方去，如果委員有觀察到，我特別會到偏鄉、原來的農業縣市，我比較少到六都……"],["羅委員智強：部長，我的時間到了，我就給你一個簡單的建議，瓜田不納履，李下不整冠……"],["鄭部長英耀：我要跟委員報告，我辦公室特別通知謝衣鳯委員我會到彰化去看地方的一些……我要利用這個機會跟委員報告，我只要到地方，一定會跟地方縣市的教育局處長做……"],["羅委員智強：部長，最後我要給你一個建議，輕重緩急還是要分啦！我相信到地方考察的時間是很彈性的，有各種時間可以安排，但是審查校事會議的法案就是在那一天，那一天所有老師都睜大眼睛在看，你身為教育部長，大家希望教育部長在這個會議當中展現出當老師後盾的態度，這一點給部長參考。"],["鄭部長英耀：我也要跟委員報告，感謝委員的關心，確實從我進來教育部這兩年來都沒有寒暑假，過去我一直以為我在寒暑假可以去看學校，希望教學軟硬體能夠改變，但是我們到現在……"],["羅委員智強：部長，我們現在立法院不管是法案審查還是選民服務，也沒有什麼寒暑假。我尊重你的感受，我的建議就這麼簡單，以上。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的提醒，謝謝。"],["主席（葉委員元之代）：謝謝羅智強委員，謝謝部長，部長請回。","現在請羅廷瑋召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":470,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-22-19","speakers":["羅廷瑋","羅智強","柯志恩","陳培瑜","葉元之","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","蔡春綢","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳思瑤","許忠信","吳沛憶","洪孟楷","張雅琳","傅崐萁","吳宗憲","徐欣瑩","林倩綺","葛如鈞"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-13"],"gazette_id":"1156102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156102_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部政務次長林靜儀、行政院食品安全辦公室主任許輔列席\n就「校園食品安全把關機制及致癌油事件因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請教育部\n部長鄭英耀列席就「學生出缺勤管理及校園秩序維護政策亂象檢討與改善措施」進行專題報告，\n並備質詢；三、審查教育部函為修正「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」部分\n條文及「公立高級中等以下學校教師成績考核辦法」第五條、第六條之一條文案；四、審查(一)\n國民黨黨團擬具「教育經費編列與管理法第三條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員林德福等25人擬具\n「教育經費編列與管理法增訂第三條之二條文草案」案、(三)委員邱鎮軍等28人擬具「教育經費\n編列與管理法第三條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員徐欣瑩等29人擬具「教育經費編列與管理法第\n三條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員葉元之等21人擬具「教育經費編列與管理法第三條條文修正草\n案」案、(六)委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「教育經費編列與管理法第三條條文修正草案」案、(七)委\n員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育經費編列與管理法第三條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員王鴻薇等18人\n擬具「教育經費編列與管理法第三條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員陳超明等17人擬具「教育經費\n編列與管理法第三條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「教育經費編列與管理法第\n三條條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員萬美玲等17人擬具「教育經費編列與管理法第三條條文修正\n草案」案、( 十二) 委員翁曉玲等18 人擬具「教育經費編列與管理法第三條條文修正草案」案、\n(十三)委員馬文君等20人擬具「教育經費編列與管理法第三條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員柯\n志恩等21人擬具「教育經費編列與管理法第三條、第十條及第十三條條文修正草案」案；五、審\n查委員葉元之等19人擬具「國民轉介教育條例草案」案；六、繼續審查(一)委員范雲等16人擬具\n「學校供餐法草案」案、(二)委員馬文君等17人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、(三)委員魯明哲等\n24人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、(四)委員王育敏等17人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、(五)委員\n洪孟楷等20人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、(六)委員黃健豪等20人擬具「學校供餐法草案」案、\n(七)委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「學校供餐條例草案」案、(八)委員林倩綺等21人擬具「學校午餐及\n營養促進條例草案」案、(九)委員鍾佳濱等17人擬具「學校午餐法草案」案、(十)委員郭昱晴等\n16人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育法草案」案、(十一)委員張雅琳等17人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教\n育法草案」案、(十二)委員柯志恩等21人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」案、(十三)委員\n陳培瑜等26人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」案、(十四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「高級中等\n以下學校及幼兒園午餐供餐法草案」案、(十五)委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「學校飲食健康促進法草\n案」案、(十六)委員葉元之等20人擬具「學校飲食健康促進法草案」案、(十七)委員陳秀寳等20\n人擬具「學校飲食法草案」案、(十八)委員林宜瑾等33人擬具「學校飲食法草案」案、(十九)委\n員劉建國等17人擬具「學校飲食教育法草案」案、(二十)委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「學校營養飲食\n供餐法草案」案、( 二十一) 委員邱鎮軍等25 人擬具「高級中等以下學校供餐及飲食教育條例草\n案」案、( 二十二) 委員羅廷瑋等20 人擬具「高級中等以下學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」案、\n( 二十三) 委員萬美玲等19人擬具「學校營養午餐法草案」案、( 二十四) 委員葛如鈞等17 人擬具\n「學校供餐法草案」案、 ( 二十五) 委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育促進法草案」\n案、( 二十六) 委員陳亭妃等16 人擬具「學校飲食法草案」案、( 二十七) 委員王美惠等19 人擬具\n「學校飲食法草案」案、(二十八)委員陳菁徽等22人擬具「學校營養午餐法草案」案、(二十九)\n委員許宇甄等23人擬具「學校營養午餐法草案」案、(三十)委員張嘉郡等19人擬具「學校營養午\n餐法草案」案、(三十一)委員李彥秀等16人擬具「學校營養午餐及飲食教育條例草案」案、 (三\n十二)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「高級中等以下學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」案、(三\n十三)委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等18人擬具「學校供餐及飲食教育條例草案」案、(三十\n四 ) 委員林月琴等 29 人擬具「學校供餐及飲食教育法草案」案、 ( 三十五 ) 委員游顥等 17 人擬具\n「學校營養午餐及食品安全衛生管理法草案」案、(三十六)委員顏寬恒等18人擬具「校園飲食均\n衡及健康促進法草案」案、( 三十七) 委員吳思瑤等17 人擬具「學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」\n案、(三十八)委員張智倫等17人擬具「高級中等以下學校午餐及飲食教育條例草案」案、(三十\n九)委員蔡易餘等16人擬具「學校飲食法草案」案；七、審查委員羅智強等 20人擬具「學校營養\n飲食供餐法草案」案（第四、五案詢答）","agenda_id":"1156102_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}