{"error":false,"id":["170475"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170475,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170475","日期":"2026-07-15","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-20-22","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第22次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":22,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第22次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-15T11:03:40+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-15T11:14:59+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:19","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f097d2073855cd229b074d89461c21aea7dabc8f267c39f7d0a1b18c43a2647012eae036270d068b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"顏寬恒","委員發言時間":"11:03:40 - 11:14:59","會議時間":"2026-07-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請審計部陳審計長瑞敏、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、衛生福利部石部長崇良、教育部鄭部長英耀就「政府食品安全管理機制、食安五環與校園食安預算執行及審核結果」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【7月15日及16日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.26721875,"end":4.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.654718750000001,"end":5.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.18971875,"end":10.594718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.72971875,"end":11.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.83909375,"end":18.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.762218750000002,"end":26.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.76096875,"end":31.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.127218750000004,"end":35.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.400968750000004,"end":39.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.923468750000005,"end":42.758468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.14659375,"end":56.393468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.83221875,"end":87.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.67534375000001,"end":99.62721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.76221875,"end":105.76971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.10721875,"end":107.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.18284375,"end":109.53284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.14034375000001,"end":120.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.51409375,"end":126.25596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.55971875,"end":130.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.91346875000002,"end":136.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.34284375000001,"end":138.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.38471875000002,"end":139.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.92471875,"end":142.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.82721875000001,"end":146.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.08409375000002,"end":149.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.99909375000001,"end":152.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.56409375,"end":172.69596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.88159375,"end":179.49659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.91846875000002,"end":193.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.67159375,"end":197.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.45159375,"end":201.82221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.04159375,"end":208.57221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.48784375000002,"end":275.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.49034375,"end":274.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.02596875,"end":280.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.96596875,"end":294.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.90471875000003,"end":305.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.46409375,"end":320.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.79096875000005,"end":321.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.82034375,"end":322.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.08596875,"end":326.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.03471875,"end":328.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.05971875,"end":330.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.59534375000004,"end":333.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.18971875,"end":343.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.79159375,"end":346.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.91346875000005,"end":352.11096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.54971875,"end":362.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.87721875,"end":365.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.94846875,"end":371.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.46659375,"end":382.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.04721875,"end":383.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.71784375000004,"end":386.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.02971875000003,"end":439.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.67846875000004,"end":393.62346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.41221875,"end":395.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.35721875,"end":396.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.86971875,"end":444.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.20221875000004,"end":449.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.85596875000005,"end":445.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.13846875,"end":452.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.77034375000005,"end":459.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":459.41909375,"end":462.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.28346875000005,"end":463.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.44784375,"end":466.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":466.84409375,"end":470.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.91096875000005,"end":474.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.19721875000005,"end":482.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.75721875000005,"end":505.30221875},{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各位列席官員大家好主席有請衛福部林市長請林市長市長好"},{"start":13.604,"end":31.193,"text":"市長目前超過27500公噸的問題原料由像三大油品製造商福茂泰山福壽然後分別被重新包裝或製成不同的食用品然後中標的業者包含超商五星級飯店咖啡廳小吃店"},{"start":32.433,"end":55.596,"text":"攤商還有各級中小學可以說是全台灣的人都已經把這些致癌油吃下肚我看了上星期未完委員會的質詢那委員問說這麼多的致癌油我們能回收多少有多少是民眾已經吃下肚有多少是收不回來的結果部長一問三不知只會說都是廠商延遲通報的問題"},{"start":56.917,"end":74.15,"text":"那這就是在迴避嘛所以也說了還沒出去的會阻斷那當然要阻斷嘛整場質詢下來我們沒有看到衛福部有具體的作為一直在卸責那有錯就直接跟民眾道歉好好的交代解決辦法"},{"start":75.134,"end":87.503,"text":"那就算財閥金額再高也無法彌補對人民所造成的傷害跟損失上週公布了許多涉及自然油的商品包括多項的超商"},{"start":88.835,"end":109.336,"text":"食物像是民眾很喜歡的林聰明雞肉飯糰護航豆漿飯糰食安牧場糖心蛋飯糰還有健身營控組喜歡在超商買的雞胸肉還有很多在超商購買的便當全部都中標現在民眾都犧牲說愛真實就是"},{"start":110.177,"end":138.157,"text":"癌真實就是我們吃那些即將過期的產品他會打折嘛六折打六折那壽命跟健康也跟著打六折所以民眾最關切的就是說很多人都以超商的食物為正餐可能每天都在購買那涉及的品項非常的多可能每個通路都有涉及就算已經啟動了這個退款機制但是民眾要去找發票看載具那因為現在"},{"start":139.42,"end":165.228,"text":"已經普遍在使用雲端發票載具政府應該研議大數據溯源機制已經有民眾自發性的做出一個對比的工具透過財政部電子發票平台然後下載消費發票來彙整CSV上傳去自動對比有問題的產品清單我建議說衛福部你可以找這個經濟跟財政部"},{"start":166.408,"end":192.237,"text":"這邊來合作去推動官方的我們的食安載具的一個查詢平台讓民眾能夠透過載具的號碼輸入載具的號碼精確的查詢特定期間內在什麼通路購買過什麼樣的品項跟自來油品相關的商品這樣子能夠協助民眾掌握自身的一個健康風險更能夠作為日後向通路商要求退款的一個數位憑證"},{"start":193.757,"end":208.355,"text":"那做一個溯源的機制讓事後求償跟退款能夠更加的有效率所以我要請問說衛福部願不願意會不會跟財政部電子發票平台來推動官方的食安載具查詢平台"},{"start":208.875,"end":225.659,"text":"報告委員 第一個事情我們其實在上個禮拜財政部就已經跟我們聯絡了他們可以協助我們在發票上面來做一些處理這是第一個部分所以當然如果這邊用食安載具或者是相關的這些超商載具能夠撈到相關的資訊這個部分我們當然對於民眾是比較方便的"},{"start":225.999,"end":247.061,"text":"第二個部分我們在目前所宣布的就是說當民眾要退貨或者是包含球場尤其是退貨這個部分那我們要求相關業者要從寬那能夠方便民眾來做處理不過也要再補充就是說像委員剛剛提到用載具這件事情我們在地方上很多的沒有在使用因為這個是比較年輕的人在用的東西啦"},{"start":247.381,"end":274.432,"text":"有一些比較長者或者是一般的家庭主婦他可能沒有用這個東西甚至他購買的來源可能是一般的食品行不是用這樣子的不是用所謂載具的方式所以食藥署在我們得知這個資訊之後到目前每天我們都在食藥署的官方網站上面的專區已經公布了440項相關的產品那他所影響到他的這個效期讓民眾能夠去查詢他手上或者家裡面的相關的產品是不是這個時間的東西"},{"start":275.652,"end":301.801,"text":"所以以科技的手段來落實食安溯源這個部分來這個兼顧民眾的一個健康管理所以作為未來退款的基礎所以你剛剛提到說部分的人沒有使用載具這當然因為載具是近年來大家年輕人都會使用的部分但是透過這樣子的一個平台能夠了解讓民眾知道他到底購買過多少的自由商品能夠自來物的部分自來油"},{"start":302.361,"end":319.741,"text":"那我想接下來跟你討論食品安全的管理的部分食藥署的調查曝露出多項行政程序上的漏洞像最新的調查報告中聯郵址宣稱4月份出貨時檢據的SGS合規報告但在實務上它是先出貨"},{"start":320.822,"end":338.528,"text":"後送驗所以這個代表業者在還沒有取得檢驗合格的結果之前就已經將他的產品流入市場販賣事後才來補齊這些檢驗的文件所以導致你們官方在事後的追查污染源的時候無法確認"},{"start":339.688,"end":365.359,"text":"業者最初送檢的究竟是哪一批哪一個批號的一個優品也無法解釋為何該批優品在6月份再次送檢後會出現這個本批的一個這樣子的一個超標那面對這種A批出貨然後B批送檢或事後調包的這些漏洞會不會容易修正這個行政命令"},{"start":367.72,"end":391.674,"text":"針對使用油等民生高風險大眾物資品項強制要求必須要先檢後發也就是說先取得合格的報告上傳追溯系統之後食品才可以放這個讓它離開工廠流入市場這會不會做委員這樣子先講第一個事情廠商他如果送A賣B這已經違法了"},{"start":392.074,"end":418.022,"text":"違法了嘛 這已經違法了所以這個部分現在檢調正在查這是第一個部分第二個部分就是說地方我們其實在食安法41條這些食品廠它的查核第一線是地方政府要來進行查核那先跟委員報告在相關這幾家油廠大型的油廠煉油廠的部分其實我們從111年到現在我們都有專案都給地方去查但是其實在查當然這個部分我們要去做一個修正因為在衛福部這邊要求至少半年要有"},{"start":418.522,"end":439.109,"text":"要去查核一次那我們在現在看到的資料有些地方政府對於油廠它就是真的一年就半年驗一次那有些它可能就有評次比較多所以像對於這一次遇到像中聯這樣子它的批次這麼的多它的產量這麼的大那它事實上地方政府我們會再寫得更細一點讓地方政府不會半年才查一次"},{"start":439.229,"end":462.648,"text":"所以我們針對食安的部分,這食安就是國安啊因為我們認為說他應該要知道這家廠那麼大,他應該要平時偏家那如果這樣我們就要在明定這一點不過魏胡佩在這一次整體的事件的管理是非常的誇張啦這個政策朝夕令改,慌張失措第一時間我們食藥署對外宣稱說什麼第二層的產品製造業者也是受影響的無辜受害者"},{"start":464.505,"end":481.878,"text":"中央不會公佈名單這不是在說什麼消費我們基層民眾就直接炸鍋了你會不會什麼時候變成食藥食品廠的代言人保護業者的生意會比保障國人健康食品安全更重要嗎還有這個知情權更重要嗎"},{"start":482.859,"end":504.682,"text":"所以直到社會輿論炸鍋民意沸騰之後衛福部才又急轉彎然後呢 迫於壓力公佈名單擠壓膏式的資訊公開看風向來修正這樣徹底摧毀了政府的公信力在食安把關上面這個公信力已經完全無效了所以我希望整個行政單位"},{"start":506.311,"end":525.838,"text":"以民眾健康為核心為核心目標去用心做事這個部分我想請次長就剛剛我們提到部分來做一個全面的檢討然後呢省紀部對於整個上傳追溯系統這個部分還有剛剛說的我們的那個平台的部分做一個全面的規劃可以嗎"},{"start":526.458,"end":547.039,"text":"謝謝委員 我再跟委員補充就是說現在我們這440市場受影響的產品都每天只要收到新的資訊就定期公佈不過目前到最新的資料我們預防性下架的相關29批產品裡面其中5批確定是有問題所以這邊不會讓中聯這些產品繼續使用它是完全就永久下架那另外一個部分就是剛剛委員提到的當然我們必須承認專家在專業上面的評估"},{"start":549.301,"end":563.209,"text":"跟實際民眾的感受是有落差所以我們盡速的調整那也後來才會啟動預防性下架跟逐日公開相關資訊好 謝謝次長次長請回主席再請我們審計部我們的審計部我們的好 請審計長審計長 審計長"},{"start":570.314,"end":587.749,"text":"沈議長你好時間有限我想最後這個毒油事件第一點要請審計部盡快針對衛福部食藥署來調閱行政資料是否有涉及蓋牌或者是延遲跨部會的應變的行政疏失那第二點就是說針對現在"},{"start":589.13,"end":615.513,"text":"各項預算有關食安數位追溯的預算進行這樣子的一個大體檢釐清高達數元的系統為什麼會失靈是通報制度出現問題還是人為下達命令才出的問題所以這部分因為這部分我要再次強調了實際上因為這是國安問題食安就是國安問題所以像我們現在這種擠牙膏式的資訊公開還有看到修正"},{"start":616.334,"end":632.052,"text":"看到風向才修正的這樣子的官僚作風確實已經摧毀了政府在食安把關上的公信力民眾已經完全沒有信心了所以這部分再請省議長做一個全面的檢討我們這位趙委員的議事來做整個的專案調查"},{"start":637.377,"end":658.554,"text":"這個我們會來做另外剛剛講的那些數位數元的問題這個院長在昨天也有講數位 科技數位已經非常要靠這個已經非常重要了因為這是前面因為這個一千年都很廣所以數位的問題我們也會來協助衛生服務部或者食藥署能夠幫他把它建構好"},{"start":667.001,"end":672.692,"text":"謝謝委員好的 謝謝沈記長 謝謝結束顏寬恒委員的質詢接下來請李昆城委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}