{"error":false,"id":["170476"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170476,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170476","日期":"2026-07-15","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-25","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":25,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-15T11:17:56+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-15T11:27:19+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:23","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f097d2073855cd22100f13a6b291c96dfe3e8cd970e079ced0a1b18c43a26470b328fc7562c8dfc65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:17:56 - 11:27:19","會議時間":"2026-07-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）考試院函請審議「公務人員考試法第四條、第五條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公務人員考試法第五條、第六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員張宏陸等19人擬具「公務人員考試法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、審查考試院函請審議「公務人員任用法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「毒品危害防制條例第三十三條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅智強等23人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第三十三條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第三十三條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員許宇甄等25人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第三十三條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員林淑芬等19人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第三十三條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員羅美玲等16人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第三十三條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員張雅琳等16人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第三十三條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第三十三條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（二）至（八）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、審查委員賴士葆等23人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第四條及第六條條文修正草案」案。\n五、審查委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第十一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查委員羅智強等18人擬具「毒品危害防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、審查委員鍾佳濱等17人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第二條條文修正草案」案。\n八、審查委員張宏陸等22人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n九、審查委員丁學忠等16人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十、審查委員劉建國等17人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、審查委員陳冠廷等16人擬具「毒品危害防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、審查委員徐欣瑩等25人擬具「毒品危害防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、審查委員邱若華等17人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、審查委員林月琴等20人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第十一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十五、審查委員傅崐萁等18人擬具「毒品危害防制條例第四條及第九條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十六、審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「毒品危害防制條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】\n【7月15日及16日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.13221875,"end":0.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.11846875,"end":9.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.08846875,"end":11.539718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.41284375,"end":13.480343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.83846875,"end":17.715968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.47971875,"end":28.937843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.207843750000002,"end":30.945968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.40159375,"end":33.190343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.56159375,"end":39.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.48471875,"end":50.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.82471875,"end":52.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.71471875,"end":82.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.83659375,"end":82.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.87034375,"end":84.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.39346875000001,"end":84.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.81096875,"end":84.87846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.87846875000001,"end":118.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.48596875000001,"end":112.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.03784375000001,"end":119.64096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.64096875000001,"end":120.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.65784375000001,"end":120.11346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.45096875,"end":120.48471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.48471875000001,"end":120.50159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.50159375000001,"end":126.20534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.64909375,"end":122.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.53034375000001,"end":125.56409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.69909375,"end":126.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.32346875,"end":127.03221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.03221875000001,"end":146.96159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.59721875,"end":129.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.88159375,"end":165.18659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.92284375,"end":152.85096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.82971875,"end":155.88846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.42284375,"end":165.50721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.50721875000002,"end":176.99909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.06409375,"end":167.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.08409375000002,"end":184.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.91784375,"end":212.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.65596875,"end":185.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.84971875000002,"end":188.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.18534375000002,"end":200.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.45784375000002,"end":212.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.52096875,"end":212.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.53784375,"end":212.74034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.74034375000002,"end":212.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.77409375000002,"end":213.55034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.55034375000002,"end":213.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.60096875000002,"end":213.68534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.68534375000002,"end":213.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.83721875,"end":229.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.87096875,"end":218.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.11909375000002,"end":219.82784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.38784375,"end":256.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.8253437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主席謝謝 麻煩請我們法務部正部長請法務部正部長"},{"start":17.514,"end":41.783,"text":"部長好 昨天下午本席有詢問行政院長有關於這個毒油的一個事件那我想我還是再進一步跟您就教因為這個毒油事件真的是全國國人都非常關心那現在重點在於是衛福部部長已經跟媒體朋友以及跟國人都講了就是說現在有可能是這個中聯郵品他們在上郵的時候就已經有數據造假的問題"},{"start":42.583,"end":65.175,"text":"那連帶的泰山福壽等相關中間以及後面下層那這樣就是一個很綿密的一個系統那我想要確認一下是說因為現在看起來所有的資料都掌握在檢方這手上所以現在國人很好奇的地方是目前調查都還是只有四月到六月的生產有沒有問題"},{"start":66.095,"end":81.651,"text":"那目前依照衛福部告訴我們四月到六月光這三個月就有五批次高達五千七百公噸的油品是有問題的是產出致癌物的但它還持續的出貨那我們更要問的是那這樣子一到三月有沒有問題"},{"start":83.55,"end":112.299,"text":"那這些數據都掌握在檢方這邊跟委員報告那的確這個有沒有問題這是很專業的一個檢驗那SGS還有他們自主檢驗等等的一個部分那委員關心我想我們現在目前這個以我們現在的了解的訊息是4月4號那個以後的這些事情那不是三例以前有沒有這部分我想我們會跟食藥署來做就希望他們提供具體的一些的資料給我們"},{"start":112.759,"end":128.476,"text":"因為究竟是檢驗室 它是前上有的事那你有問題 它有檢驗室部長 這已經進入到司法程序啦所以我們現在問食藥署食藥署就說因為是偵查不公開所以食藥署現在不願意公佈那這部分我們跟委員報告"},{"start":129.737,"end":151.844,"text":"我想我們跟食藥署要保持密切的聯繫因為我們在台高檢有一個查緝民生犯罪的一個聯繫平台那所有的這些的一個訊息那個交換那我想這個都是非常的一個暢通如果有些的直接拿給檢察官或者透過這個平台來做...那部長我先確認一下因為它已經進入司法程序它已經變成是一個就我看來它是上下交鄉賊的一個犯罪"},{"start":153.064,"end":165.778,"text":"那我們檢方現在有沒有去查扣他的譬如說是內部公司的電子郵件相關的實驗報告記錄過去的一些資料因為現在只有檢方有這個能力我們不要說被人家"},{"start":168.12,"end":192.023,"text":"滅政嘛這個我想我們希望我們透過這個平台我剛剛有跟委員報告有這個平台我有看到這個平台這個平台7月6號成立嘛但本席平台的部分我等一下也會問但我現在要問的是說到目前國人現在最關注因為現在最有能力找出真相的應該是檢方所有媒體的一個報導或者是一些的訊息我想檢方都一定會一併來做一個調查那現在有沒有"},{"start":193.604,"end":216.37,"text":"那這個我沒辦法跟委員做一個報告因為我沒辦法去過問個案那至於他那個遇到依照我們的SOP他一定會給依照相關的SOP有沒有應該有應該要他那個會如果有這個我想食藥署會提供給檢方來做一個現在已經不是食藥署為什麼你還是一直講因為部長我們現在是理解兩個案件嘛因為這個專類的檢驗有沒有歸食藥署歸食藥署它比較是行政的部分"},{"start":223.172,"end":250.488,"text":"但現在已經涉嫌到就是違反甚至認為是重大犯罪就像昨天您講因為這個司法調查一定要一定會並案調查我想這個委員什麼時候可以給國人比較清楚的一個說法我們是希望檢方是台中地檢署是速查嚴辦速查嚴辦但是因為證據的一個收集認定還認定的犯罪是我是不是尊重台中地檢署的一個偵查的策略"},{"start":250.968,"end":274.888,"text":"那委員關心的就是說有一些的是不是有造假這個是惠福部長直接已經講了他說認為是數據有造假都不懂那這部分我們會調查會並案調查來那部長我請教昨天我也詢問過行政院院長就是說在上個禮拜的時候我們看到說這幾個相關關係人甚至今天有週刊媒體報導他直接講中聯的這個總經理在案發之後的6月15號"},{"start":280.552,"end":304.873,"text":"也就是他們內部已經查出說有問題有自來油的時候他召開了一次會議把下游的泰山福壽等業者找來開這個會並且做出重大的會議結論是不公佈不停產持續的來不回收持續來去販售等到他們有所謂的內部股東會等相關的行政"},{"start":305.313,"end":330.109,"text":"完了之後他才去跟食藥署通報也因此至少又多拖了這兩個禮拜那我們也要問啊就說如果這樣看起來說這個人其實是很有爭議的好我尊重檢方的一個偵辦所以這個主席齁這個中聯的這個余姓的總經理他是那個60號的一個平保會議的一個主席是沒有錯所以他檢方才要跟那個法院申請羈押很可惜是法院沒有准啦齁"},{"start":330.669,"end":357.061,"text":"是嗎 這個就是本席現在想要問的就是昨天我也問過啦那個時候還不知道食藥署衛福部部長還沒有講是說數據是有造假那會不會是法院法官他的認定那但是現在我們要講的是他是總經理照理講這些數據也不是他自己去實驗他也去做的那是他指示下面人要去做造假數據還是下面人有報正確數據但是他惡意的篡改"},{"start":358.662,"end":386.042,"text":"這中間的過程釐清那如果說在過去這幾天會不會又變成是空窗期讓他們有串證之嫌疑台中地檢署我相信一定都會去了解我相信他掌握的事證一定是比委員了解的還多那因為我沒辦法去做就是因為現在我們只能靠檢方來幫我們找出真相但是我們也很擔憂的是過去也講是說這幾家大公司我不管說他什麼政商關係等等的啦"},{"start":386.562,"end":408.795,"text":"但是從一開始讓國人覺得疑點重重怎麼會突然間跑出一個神秘數字百分之二十說百分之二十不用下架第二層要隱匿因為第二層是受害者所以國人會懷疑或國人會擔心說如果說沒有持續民意代表沒有媒體持續追的話會不會這件事情可能兩個禮拜前就把它結束了"},{"start":409.395,"end":418.078,"text":"那是因為一直報一直報一直報所以說才一直追查嗎檢調什麼時候你啟動你剛講的什麼時候檢調啟動民生飯桌是7月4號才啟動民生聯繫平台嗎對不對我們台中地鐵有在7月2號7月2號就直接就開專案會議了7月3號分案房"},{"start":434.921,"end":457.138,"text":"來你的麥克風被剛主席消音了主席我不知道是什麼原因消音啦應該不是調侃的啦來麥克風再按一下好 謝謝我想這是國人大家的關心啦這不是說只是本席關心不分藍綠我們都需要一個真相都需要食安的一個報告所以本席還是再次強調 部長"},{"start":458.879,"end":482.31,"text":"現在全國國人都把因為這一件事件連今天的媒體報導都已經講了它比2014年的食安油還要嚴重為什麼2014年的時候它涉及的是這媒體寫產地的造假但是最終的產品其實是沒有驗出致癌物可是當時軒然大波那也已經過了"},{"start":483.09,"end":496.535,"text":"十幾年過去了我們也為了食安投入了非常多的預算包括食安雲包括相關的預算食安碗等等但是2026年的今天居然在我們的食用油裡面可以驗出致癌物"},{"start":497.472,"end":501.856,"text":"我覺得這是非同小可的嚴重而如果說有數據造假有過去的生產的狀況那最後一點我只問一下因為我們現在有沒有要求檢方同步調取他們的相關的帳冊銷售收入原料成本等相關資料避免他把犯罪所得給移轉"},{"start":518.971,"end":539.365,"text":"這部分我想跟犯罪事實有關的證據檢方都會嚴加的所以現在中聯或是泰山福壽等相關他們的資產有扣押嗎這部分我想台中地遣署會做一個處理那個有扣押的話我們有扣押的資產譬如說他生產的一個工具還有犯罪的工具我們是依照形式扣押"},{"start":541.787,"end":551.997,"text":"最高你可以用49條來去處罰是7年以下有期徒刑跟病科罰金8000萬元嘛那當然有沒有其他的這個要請法務部再找專業的但是本行要求是說該怎麼做就怎麼做所以如果說該扣押要扣押好嗎好 謝謝洪夢楷為 你要請到的講三文件也好"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}