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請張廖次長兩位次長好那因為這次這個中聯油脂本名比超標的事情大家就很關心這件事情呢那流入校園後續的這個處理方式那我是看這一個衛福部的統計"},{"start":25.242,"end":39.994,"text":"目前有20個縣市,623所學校,258所幼兒園,合計881所校園,疑似受到影響的產品,有實施預防性的下架和停職使用。我這個數字還有在增加嗎?"},{"start":44.55,"end":54.854,"text":"委員我們現在根據食藥署 衛福部這邊公布的品項你講的是指後來公布的440項現在已經涉及到20縣市 861校還有334所幼兒園目前已經都下架了"},{"start":64.857,"end":84.312,"text":"下架就是說我們有一個校園食材登錄平台所以這個登錄平台有發揮效用我們7月1號接到這個通知之後我們大概就用比較寬的方式就從那個食燈平台去撈譬如說有油 這是油的 油瓶就油我們就撈了大概1385校"},{"start":86.494,"end":111.415,"text":"然後有登錄的部分我們就7月2號馬上通知各縣市政府開始來撈只要跟中聯福壽福茂泰山有關係的到7月14號為止就是到昨天為止是確定大概有260校新北有76校台北有64校基隆有11校台中有69校台南有13校高雄14校所以有即刻停用了嘛"},{"start":112.256,"end":139.135,"text":"好 那有去做實地封存的這個動作嗎你剛才問的這個800多所 這個是屬於用那個油有問題 因為它有再製那個加工食品然後因為衛福部公布之後 我們又再去撈所以撈出來是這個800多所 這疑似的這部分我們都請它先下架對 那你們有去實地 請這個各縣市政府交易局去做實地的封存嗎"},{"start":140.026,"end":141.127,"text":"那退回跟銷毀的動作勒?"},{"start":150.645,"end":172.036,"text":"因為那個執行機關在地方政府我們通知他們之後他們就是必須要去做這個動作因為中央也要去督導一下說到底地方政府有沒有按照停用看起來是沒問題嘛接下來封存跟退回銷毀後續的動作也要一起做啊對在地方他們的那個查驗的日期還有這個查驗的品項銷毀他們都會有一個公佈的資訊"},{"start":174.537,"end":189.404,"text":"那這個因為我剛剛其他委員有問到就是審計部的資料那是在112年這個幼兒園使用校園設的登錄平台公立幼兒園當然比較高那時候的這個比率這個有87成"},{"start":193.166,"end":208.611,"text":"但是非公立的包含非營利、准公、私立那時候的資料偏低8.26%但是我看你們最新的資料有給我的是現在私立幼兒園有2939元比例已經提高到74%了"},{"start":210.912,"end":229.633,"text":"對謝謝委員的關心其實是這樣就是說您剛才講的那個八十幾趴也是一二年資料其實現在一般公立學校學校的部分已經到九十九趴了九十九趴對在食材登錄的那個比例上涵蓋率那公立幼兒園其實也到了九十幾趴了那現在就是說我們講的非營利 整攻 私利對"},{"start":231.154,"end":246.933,"text":"就是我們非營利幼兒園還有互助式教保服務員或准公這個政府有補助的部分其實都到非營利的部分到99%那互助式教保服務也到88% 89%那准公幼也到了100%幾乎百分之百"},{"start":247.413,"end":270.131,"text":"反正就是公立的或是政府有補助的都已經在99%私立的部分我們現在私立幼兒園因為它規模真的很小有的二三十個三四十個當時我們在法規上沒有強制性但是我們有協同就是說我們也是會去做抽查因為那個是食安的問題那目前的私立幼兒園那目前已經大概就是65%左右"},{"start":271.072,"end":286.97,"text":"65%那這有辦法在112年確實那時候審計部他們做的報告那時候才9%而已所以我們經過這三年努力人力上的不足那還是說設備上的不足那要怎麼樣登錄的品項因為有的那個主要食材是很複雜它很多批號那他們那個"},{"start":288.371,"end":305.827,"text":"那比較小的幼兒園其實他們行政能力普遍不足所以我們現在也在研擬說如果要再提高這個比例的話可能比如說研擬一些AI的登錄的方式讓他們能夠在這個用掃描的方式或者說用在登錄上比較方便我覺得這還是可以用科技的方式來進行我們希望再把它提高到跟我們一般就是99%以上的那個標準"},{"start":311.612,"end":337.612,"text":"所以你們有沒有大概一個目標值就是說希望多久的時間然後希望實體幼兒園經由你們的協助也能夠提高到一定的標準所以我們會跟地方政府一起來努力啦我們這次的清查雖然說他沒有在實燈這個平台裡面但是因為我們都是做那個實體清查電話也好或者現場去看他的那個登錄的資料裡面是不是有買這樣的品項有的話就是下架這樣子"},{"start":340.295,"end":352.124,"text":"讓家長還是能夠透過這個食材登錄的平台還是能夠知道說他們的孩子在學校吃的怎麼樣尤其是幼兒園收費又稍微高一點點那我想家長的權利應該也要能夠維持住啦"},{"start":358.908,"end":386.434,"text":"現在我們就是說這個管理的一個登錄平台我們會想辦法再跟地方政府研商用比較節省的這種方比較省力的方式來開發我不曉得就是反正透過AI或是說透過這種科技表格化的方式盡量不用這樣逐一你要去登它這樣他們有時候也會漏掉有時候錯誤或者說沒有那個人力會漏掉我們只要加入他沒有的話我們會列入考核就是說將來以前是有補助說我們列入考核那這是私立遊園因為沒有"},{"start":387.734,"end":400.843,"text":"拿我們補助所以我們基本上就是用協助的方式比例是有提高啦這三年來比例是有提高但是還可以再增加啦是我們這部分再繼續努力好謝謝謝謝張教授次長那我接下來我再請教這一個林次長"},{"start":403.223,"end":430.737,"text":"市委員市長我為一個跟食安比較沒有相關的但是跟病人權益有相關的就是說這個上個禮拜五有所謂的一個颱風準備假然後呢讓很多的這個病人的權益呢都受到了損失那甚至連這個臺北龍總的院長陳院長他就說最怕放假的是醫療單位因為颱風假對於醫療院所造成極大的一個困難那他也講到說這個"},{"start":433.018,"end":458.543,"text":"放了這個颱風架對於台灣的大型醫療院所面臨的醫療潤性和病患安全都會受到影響因為只要政府一通電話放假成本跟病患的安撫都是由醫院還有醫護人員自行吸收那我先請問一下就是說當然颱風你不可測當然有一個科學的方式去評估說到底要不要放颱風架"},{"start":459.443,"end":475.396,"text":"那像禮拜五這一種就是看起來不是颱風架是所謂的颱風準備架那的確也對病人的權益受到影響那這方面的話衛福部有沒有一些標準或是說一些做法讓病人的權益不要受到影響"},{"start":476.076,"end":491.439,"text":"其實報告委員衛福部這邊當然我們必須要兼顧醫療人員因為他出勤的安全還有病人到醫院也有一些安全的考量所以其實我相信大家都是一樣的立場是假設有到了我們在氣象署所預報的那樣子的風雨或者是說"},{"start":492.36,"end":514.767,"text":"這個醫院或是病人所處的地方是高度風險的區域像我們有一些預防性撤離的部分那個部分我想如果因為這個預警的原因那停止掉相關的醫療服務我相信不論是醫療院所醫療院所的工作人員或民眾大家都會接受啦你風大到不行沒有人這個時候你跟民眾說我取消你的手術民眾當然不同時他也會他也有困難去嘛"},{"start":515.367,"end":541.131,"text":"可是如果說沒有到颱風架的標準那在大家其實原來的在醫療這邊尤其很多都是一個非常必要的程序的時候那必須承認說尤其像這種大型醫院一旦停止這個服務它後續整個影響的會是蠻多的就不論對民眾或者是相關醫療人員他要去重新調整排程那這個部分影響是很大對 那我就是說像這種大型醫院那你要做一個手術也不是說我今天"},{"start":541.831,"end":562.725,"text":"前幾天訂了然後就今天要做他可能已經排了很長的時間那你今天不做下次再排也不知道是哪個時候要重新排對啊要重新排那我意思是說遇到這一種不論是颱風準備假還是真的颱風假那對於這一次大型醫療院所的病人權益那要怎麼去做照顧或是說去協助這部分"},{"start":563.765,"end":592.471,"text":"這個衛福部有沒有一個SOP出來其實報告員這個因為颱風的相關的架颱風架或者是因為颱風必須要停止相關的停止上班上課這個都這個不是在衛福部這邊主管那衛福部醫院的角色或醫療院所這邊其實就是在兼顧這個所有不論是來上班的出勤的醫療人員的安全跟病人權益的部分我們盡量依照不同的情況來做兼顧就是急診跟住院應該不會受到影響"},{"start":594.191,"end":616.443,"text":"然後這個洗腎應該也不會受到影響啦不一定 當然就看醫院那當然洗腎這種它可能持續都有在運作假設風暴雨急 那醫療人員沒有辦法上班他依照這個勞基法 颱風天他沒有辦法出缺勤沒有辦法出勤或者是病人沒有辦法出 沒有辦法去這個部分當然就真的是一個不得已但是一般的 不是重大的手術一些常規手術有可能就取消了"},{"start":617.223,"end":643.244,"text":"會 因為大家看醫院這邊如果有的醫院他有配合颱風架那就取消那如果有的醫院他沒有去配合這個部分不過這個會牽涉到因為如果沒有宣布颱風架那醫院這邊的運作大概比較能夠依照他的狀況來評估那因為宣布颱風架通常醫院就很多醫院他大概就會取消蠻多原來既定的醫療服務只留下必要的常規我覺得這個有關醫療韌性這部分"},{"start":645.305,"end":661.188,"text":"就是說你可能會遇到颱風架或是說遇到怎麼樣的會受到影響那我們所關心就是說病人的權益不要去受到影響那這部分我不曉得說這個衛福部要不要跟我們大型醫療院所那有一個比如說有一個SOP或是怎麼樣"},{"start":661.969,"end":689.361,"text":"盡量不要這個因為這個價或是什麼樣然後就讓病人全身受到影響然後你本來已經排好了又要延到很後面去這樣子我想醫院都會盡量再幫病人重新安排依照他的病情來重新安排不過我想也要跟委員說明這裡還有另外一個事情我們要衡量是這個突然之間調整的醫療或者是相關的行政流程行政量對於就像大型又非常繁忙的醫療院所有醫療人員也是一個非常非常大的負擔"},{"start":690.662,"end":702.354,"text":"對啊 所以說但是這些所謂的醫療的成本都是由大型醫院自己吸收的嘛是好 OK 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝我們結束李昆城委員的質詢接下來請林思銘委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:15:10.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:15:12.471000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們請衛福部林次長，還有教育部張廖次長。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-15T11:15:12.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:15:12.751000+08:00","text":"請林次長，請張廖次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:15:12.751000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:15:13.751000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:15:12.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:15:12.791000+08:00","text":"兩位次長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:15:12.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:15:15.172000+08:00","text":"因為這次中聯油脂苯駢芘超標的事情，大家就很關心這件事情流入校園後續的處理方式。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:15:15.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:15:48.994000+08:00","text":"我看衛福部的統計，目前有20個縣市、623所學校、258所幼兒園，合計881所校園有使用疑似受到影響的產品，有實施預防性的下架跟停止使用，這個數字還有再增加嗎？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:15:53.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:16:03.694000+08:00","text":"委員，我們現在根據衛福部食藥署公布的品項，你講的這些是指後來公布的那440項，現在已經涉及到20縣市、861校還有334所幼兒園，目前都已經下架。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:16:03.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:16:03.834000+08:00","text":"都下架了？對。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:16:13.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:16:20.503000+08:00","text":"下架是透過我們有一個校園食材登錄平臺，這個登錄平臺有發揮效用？是。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:16:22.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:16:39.978000+08:00","text":"我們7月1號接到這個通知之後，我們大概就用比較寬的方式，從那個食登平臺去撈，譬如有「油」，因為油品就是「油」，我們就撈了大概1,385校，有登錄的部分我們在7月2號就馬上通知各縣市政府開始撈跟這個……","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:16:39.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:16:44.602000+08:00","text":"只要是跟中聯、福壽、福懋、泰山有關係的就預防性下架？對。","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:16:46.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:16:58.894000+08:00","text":"到7月14號為止，也就是到昨天為止確定大概有260校，新北有76校，臺北有64校，基隆有11校，臺中有69校，臺南有13校，高雄有14校。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:16:59.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:17:00.395000+08:00","text":"所以有即刻停用了嘛！對。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:17:01.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:17:06.259000+08:00","text":"有去做實地封存的這個動作嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:17:06.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:17:23.171000+08:00","text":"你剛才問的這八百多所，這是屬於用了問題油之後，因為它有再製，畢竟是加工食品，然後衛福部公布之後，我們又再去撈，所以撈出了這八百多所是「疑似」的，這部分我們都請他先下架了。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:17:24.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:17:28.135000+08:00","text":"你們有實地去請各縣市政府教育局去做實地封存嗎？有。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:17:28.135000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:17:29.135000+08:00","text":"這些都有做嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:17:29.135000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:17:30.135000+08:00","text":"是陪同衛生局一起去。都有？對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:17:29.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:17:30.007000+08:00","text":"那退回跟銷毀的動作呢？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:17:39.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:17:44.487000+08:00","text":"我們都配合，因為那個執行機關在地方政府，我們通知他們之後，他們就必須去做這個動作。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:17:45.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:17:48.229000+08:00","text":"對，但中央也要去督導一下到底地方政府有沒有按照……我們……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:17:49.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:17:54.552000+08:00","text":"停用看起來是沒問題，接下來的封存、退回跟銷毀等後續動作也要一起做啊！","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:17:55.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:18:01.036000+08:00","text":"對，地方對於查驗日期還有查驗品項的銷毀都會把資訊公布出來。","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:18:04.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:18:16.843000+08:00","text":"因為我剛剛看其他委員也有問到，這是審計部的資料，那是在112年幼兒園使用校園食材登錄平臺的狀況，公立幼兒園當然比較高，那時候的比例……","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:18:16.843000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:18:18.104000+08:00","text":"確實比較低。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:18:18.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:18:37.591000+08:00","text":"有八成七，但是非公立的包含非營利、準公還有私立，那時候的資料偏低是8.26%，但是我看你們最新給我的資料是，現在私立幼兒園有2,939園，比例已經提高到74%了。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:18:39.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:18:47.681000+08:00","text":"對，謝謝委員的關心，其實是這樣的，您剛才講的那百分之八十幾也是112年的資料，現在一般公立學校的部分已經到99%了。99%？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:18:48.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:18:53.467000+08:00","text":"對，那是在食材登錄的比例上（涵蓋率），而公立幼兒園其實也到百分之九十幾了。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:18:54.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:18:58.432000+08:00","text":"現在就是我們講的，非營利、準公、私立……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:19:00.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:19:14.771000+08:00","text":"就是非營利幼兒園、互助式教保服務中心還有準公這些政府有補助的部分其實都到……非營利的部分是到99%，互助式教保服務中心也到88%、89%，準公幼也到了幾乎100%。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:19:16.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:19:20.556000+08:00","text":"反正就是公立的或者是政府有補助的，都已經到99%？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:19:20.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:19:21.637000+08:00","text":"對，私立的部分我們現在……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:19:21.637000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:19:22.718000+08:00","text":"好，現在就是私立的部分？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:19:22.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:19:35.909000+08:00","text":"對，私立幼兒園因為它的規模真的很小，有的只有二、三十個人或三、四十個人，當時我們在這個法規上沒有強制性，但是我們有協同、我們也是會去做抽查，因為那是食安的問題。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:19:36.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:19:37.350000+08:00","text":"目前私立幼兒園是怎樣？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:19:37.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:19:40.072000+08:00","text":"目前大概是在65%左右。65%？對。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:19:41.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:19:41.674000+08:00","text":"有辦法再提高嗎？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:19:42.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:19:44.277000+08:00","text":"112年那時候審計部做的報告確實……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:19:44.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:19:46.199000+08:00","text":"那時候是偏低，才9%而已呀！","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:19:46.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:19:47.881000+08:00","text":"所以我們經過這3年的努力……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:19:47.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:19:50.103000+08:00","text":"這是因為人力上的不足還是設備上的不足？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:19:50.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:19:51.525000+08:00","text":"要怎麼給予協助？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:19:51.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:20:11.064000+08:00","text":"登錄的品項中，因為有的主要食材很複雜，有很多批號，比較小的幼兒園他們的行政人力普遍不足，所以我們現在也在研擬，如果要再提高這個比例的話，可能要研擬一些AI登錄的方式，讓他們能夠用掃描的方式或是用……在登錄上比較方便。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:20:11.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:20:13.226000+08:00","text":"我覺得這還是可以用科技的方式來處理。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:20:13.226000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:20:14.226000+08:00","text":"是，我們現在在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:20:14.226000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:20:15.226000+08:00","text":"人力當然會比較不夠。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:20:13.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:20:14.447000+08:00","text":"我們希望再把它提高到跟一般也就是有99%以上的……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:20:20.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:20:30.060000+08:00","text":"所以你們有沒有一個大概的目標值，希望在多久的時間，然後希望私立幼兒園經由你們的協助也能夠提高到一定的標準，像是90%、95%以上。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:20:30.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:20:46.372000+08:00","text":"我們會跟地方政府一起來努力，我們這次的清查雖然沒有在食登的平臺裡面，但是因為我們都是做實體清查，不管是電話也好，或是現場去看他登錄的資料是不是有買這樣的品項，有的話就是下架，就是一一清查。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:20:49.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:21:00.984000+08:00","text":"我是說讓家長還是能夠透過這個食材登錄的平臺知道他們的孩子在學校吃得怎麼樣，尤其是私立幼兒園的收費又稍微高一點點，我想家長知的權利也要能夠維持住，好不好？","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:21:07.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:21:16.630000+08:00","text":"普遍的觀念是……現在對於我們管理的登錄平臺，我們會想辦法再跟地方政府研商，用比較省力的方式來開發。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:21:16.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:21:21.791000+08:00","text":"不曉得是不是可以透過AI或是透過科技、表格化的方式儘量……","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:21:22.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:21:39.796000+08:00","text":"不用逐一去登打，畢竟有時候也會漏掉、錯誤或者沒有那個人力，只要加入的話，發現沒有的我們就會列入考核，將來……以前是有補助，所以要列入考核，但這是私立幼兒園沒有拿我們的補助，所以我們基本上就是用協助的方式。","quality":0.835},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:21:41.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:21:43.899000+08:00","text":"這3年來的比例是有提高，但是還可以再增加啦！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:21:44.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:21:45.660000+08:00","text":"是，我們就這部分會再繼續努力。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:21:47.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:21:49.843000+08:00","text":"謝謝張廖次長，接下來我再請教林次長。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:21:52.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:21:53.744000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:21:54.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:22:19.237000+08:00","text":"次長，我問一個跟食安比較不相關但是跟病人權益相關的問題，上禮拜五有所謂的颱風準備假，讓很多病人的權益都受到損失，甚至連臺北榮總的陳院長都說，最怕放假的是醫療單位，因為颱風假對醫療院所造成了極大的困難。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:22:19.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:22:39.081000+08:00","text":"他也講到，放了颱風假，臺灣大型的醫療院所要面臨的醫療韌性還有病患安全都會受到影響，因為只要政府一通電話宣布放假，成本跟病患的安撫就要由醫院還有醫護人員自行吸收。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:22:39.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:23:04.396000+08:00","text":"那我就請問一下，颱風不可測，但是有個科學的方式去評估到底要不要放颱風假，像禮拜五這種看起來就不是颱風假而是所謂的颱風準備假，的確也讓病人的權益受到影響，這方面衛福部有沒有一些標準或是做法，讓病人的權益不要受到影響？","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:23:05.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:23:43.547000+08:00","text":"報告委員，衛福部當然必須兼顧醫療人員，包括他們出勤的安全，還有病人到醫院也有一些安全的考量，所以我相信大家都是一樣的立場，假設有到了氣象署預報那樣子的風雨，或者醫院或病人所處的地方是高度風險的區域，像我們有一些預防性撤離的部分，我想如果因為預警的原因而停止相關的醫療服務，我相信不論是醫療院所、醫療院所的工作人員或民眾，大家都會接受，風大到不行，這個時候跟民眾說取消他們的手術，民眾當然……不過同時他們前往也有困難。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:23:44.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:24:05.707000+08:00","text":"可是如果沒有到颱風假的標準，原來在醫療這邊很多都是非常必要的程序時，必須承認，尤其像這種大型醫院一旦停止服務，後續整個影響會是滿多的，不論是民眾或者是相關醫療人員要重新調整排程，這個部分影響是很大的。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:24:06.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:24:15.114000+08:00","text":"對，我的意思是像這種大型醫院，要做一個手術也不是前幾天訂了，今天就可以做，而是可能已經排了很長的時間。是。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:24:15.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:24:17.335000+08:00","text":"如果今天不做，下次再排，也不知道是哪個時候。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:24:17.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:24:17.916000+08:00","text":"要重新排。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:24:18.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:24:18.936000+08:00","text":"對，要重新排。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:24:19.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:24:34.205000+08:00","text":"我的意思是，遇到這種不論是颱風準備假還是真的颱風假，對於大型醫療院所的病人權益要怎麼照顧或協助這部分，衛福部有沒有一個SOP出來？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:24:34.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:24:44.007000+08:00","text":"報告委員，颱風相關的颱風假或者是因為颱風必須要停止上班、上課，這些都不是衛福部主管。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:24:44.007000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:24:46.928000+08:00","text":"對，我是說醫院。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:24:46.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:24:58.290000+08:00","text":"醫院的角色或醫療院所其實就是在兼顧所有不論是來上班、出勤醫療人員的安全跟病人權益的部分，我們儘量依照不同的情況來做兼顧。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:24:58.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:25:01.471000+08:00","text":"急診跟住院應該不會受到影響？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:25:01.471000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:25:03.972000+08:00","text":"那個沒辦法。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:25:03.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:25:05.273000+08:00","text":"洗腎應該也不會受到影響吧？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:25:06.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:25:21.461000+08:00","text":"不一定，當然就看醫院，洗腎這種可能持續都有在運作，假設風暴雨急，醫療人員沒有辦法上班，依照勞基法，颱風天沒有辦法出勤，或者是病人沒有辦法去，這個部分當然就真的是不得已。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:25:21.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:25:25.423000+08:00","text":"但是一般不是重大的手術，而是常規手術，有可能就取消了？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:25:26.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:25:51.343000+08:00","text":"會，都要看醫院這邊，如果有的醫院有配合颱風假，那就取消，如果有的醫院沒有去配合這個部分……不過這個會牽涉到如果沒有宣布颱風假，醫院這邊的運作大概比較能夠依照它的狀況來評估；如果宣布颱風假，很多醫院大概就會取消滿多原來既定的醫療服務，只留下必要的常規服務。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:25:51.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:26:18.492000+08:00","text":"我覺得有關醫療韌性這部分，就是可能會遇到颱風假或什麼樣而受到影響，我們所關心的是病人的權益不要受到影響，我不曉得衛福部要不要跟大型醫療院所有一個比如SOP或是怎麼樣，儘量不要因為這個假或是什麼樣，就讓病人權益受到影響，本來已經排好的又延到很後面去。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:26:19.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:26:23.234000+08:00","text":"我想醫院都會儘量再幫病人重新安排，依照他的病情重新安排。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:26:23.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:26:38.361000+08:00","text":"不過也要跟委員說明，還有另外一個事情我們要衡量的是，突然之間調整醫療或者相關的行政流程、行政量，對於大型又非常繁忙的醫療院所所有醫療人員來講，也是非常非常大的負擔。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:26:39.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:26:46.149000+08:00","text":"對，但是這些醫療成本都是由大型醫院自行吸收了。是。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-15T11:26:46.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:26:47.050000+08:00","text":"好，OK，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:26:47.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:26:47.490000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-15T11:26:48.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:26:49.933000+08:00","text":"謝謝，我們結束李坤城委員的質詢。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-15T11:26:49.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:26:51.354000+08:00","text":"接下來請林思銘委員。","quality":1}]},"gazette":{"lineno":643,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時15分）謝謝主席，我們請衛福部林次長，還有教育部張廖次長。"],["主席：請林次長，請張廖次長。"],["林次長靜儀：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：兩位次長好。因為這次中聯油脂苯駢芘超標的事情，大家就很關心這件事情流入校園後續的處理方式。我看衛福部的統計，目前有20個縣市、623所學校、258所幼兒園，合計881所校園有使用疑似受到影響的產品，有實施預防性的下架跟停止使用，這個數字還有再增加嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員，我們現在根據衛福部食藥署公布的品項，你講的這些是指後來公布的那440項，現在已經涉及到20縣市、861校還有334所幼兒園，目前都已經下架。"],["李委員坤城：都下架了？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。"],["李委員坤城：下架是透過我們有一個校園食材登錄平臺，這個登錄平臺有發揮效用？"],["張廖次長萬堅：是。我們7月1號接到這個通知之後，我們大概就用比較寬的方式，從那個食登平臺去撈，譬如有「油」，因為油品就是「油」，我們就撈了大概1,385校，有登錄的部分我們在7月2號就馬上通知各縣市政府開始撈跟這個……"],["李委員坤城：只要是跟中聯、福壽、福懋、泰山有關係的就預防性下架？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。到7月14號為止，也就是到昨天為止確定大概有260校，新北有76校，臺北有64校，基隆有11校，臺中有69校，臺南有13校，高雄有14校。"],["李委員坤城：所以有即刻停用了嘛！"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。"],["李委員坤城：有去做實地封存的這個動作嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：你剛才問的這八百多所，這是屬於用了問題油之後，因為它有再製，畢竟是加工食品，然後衛福部公布之後，我們又再去撈，所以撈出了這八百多所是「疑似」的，這部分我們都請他先下架了。"],["李委員坤城：你們有實地去請各縣市政府教育局去做實地封存嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：有。"],["李委員坤城：這些都有做嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：是陪同衛生局一起去。"],["李委員坤城：都有？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。"],["李委員坤城：那退回跟銷毀的動作呢？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們都配合，因為那個執行機關在地方政府，我們通知他們之後，他們就必須去做這個動作。"],["李委員坤城：對，但中央也要去督導一下到底地方政府有沒有按照……"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們……"],["李委員坤城：停用看起來是沒問題，接下來的封存、退回跟銷毀等後續動作也要一起做啊！"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，地方對於查驗日期還有查驗品項的銷毀都會把資訊公布出來。"],["李委員坤城：因為我剛剛看其他委員也有問到，這是審計部的資料，那是在112年幼兒園使用校園食材登錄平臺的狀況，公立幼兒園當然比較高，那時候的比例……"],["張廖次長萬堅：確實比較低。"],["李委員坤城：有八成七，但是非公立的包含非營利、準公還有私立，那時候的資料偏低是8.26%，但是我看你們最新給我的資料是，現在私立幼兒園有2,939園，比例已經提高到74%了。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，謝謝委員的關心，其實是這樣的，您剛才講的那百分之八十幾也是112年的資料，現在一般公立學校的部分已經到99%了。"],["李委員坤城：99%？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，那是在食材登錄的比例上（涵蓋率），而公立幼兒園其實也到百分之九十幾了。"],["李委員坤城：現在就是我們講的，非營利、準公、私立……"],["張廖次長萬堅：就是非營利幼兒園、互助式教保服務中心還有準公這些政府有補助的部分其實都到……非營利的部分是到99%，互助式教保服務中心也到88%、89%，準公幼也到了幾乎100%。"],["李委員坤城：反正就是公立的或者是政府有補助的，都已經到99%？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，私立的部分我們現在……"],["李委員坤城：好，現在就是私立的部分？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，私立幼兒園因為它的規模真的很小，有的只有二、三十個人或三、四十個人，當時我們在這個法規上沒有強制性，但是我們有協同、我們也是會去做抽查，因為那是食安的問題。"],["李委員坤城：目前私立幼兒園是怎樣？"],["張廖次長萬堅：目前大概是在65%左右。"],["李委員坤城：65%？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。"],["李委員坤城：有辦法再提高嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：112年那時候審計部做的報告確實……"],["李委員坤城：那時候是偏低，才9%而已呀！"],["張廖次長萬堅：所以我們經過這3年的努力……"],["李委員坤城：這是因為人力上的不足還是設備上的不足？要怎麼給予協助？"],["張廖次長萬堅：登錄的品項中，因為有的主要食材很複雜，有很多批號，比較小的幼兒園他們的行政人力普遍不足，所以我們現在也在研擬，如果要再提高這個比例的話，可能要研擬一些AI登錄的方式，讓他們能夠用掃描的方式或是用……在登錄上比較方便。"],["李委員坤城：我覺得這還是可以用科技的方式來處理。"],["張廖次長萬堅：是，我們現在在……"],["李委員坤城：人力當然會比較不夠。"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們希望再把它提高到跟一般也就是有99%以上的……"],["李委員坤城：所以你們有沒有一個大概的目標值，希望在多久的時間，然後希望私立幼兒園經由你們的協助也能夠提高到一定的標準，像是90%、95%以上。"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們會跟地方政府一起來努力，我們這次的清查雖然沒有在食登的平臺裡面，但是因為我們都是做實體清查，不管是電話也好，或是現場去看他登錄的資料是不是有買這樣的品項，有的話就是下架，就是一一清查。"],["李委員坤城：我是說讓家長還是能夠透過這個食材登錄的平臺知道他們的孩子在學校吃得怎麼樣，尤其是私立幼兒園的收費又稍微高一點點，我想家長知的權利也要能夠維持住，好不好？"],["張廖次長萬堅：普遍的觀念是……現在對於我們管理的登錄平臺，我們會想辦法再跟地方政府研商，用比較省力的方式來開發。"],["李委員坤城：不曉得是不是可以透過AI或是透過科技、表格化的方式儘量……"],["張廖次長萬堅：不用逐一去登打，畢竟有時候也會漏掉、錯誤或者沒有那個人力，只要加入的話，發現沒有的我們就會列入考核，將來……以前是有補助，所以要列入考核，但這是私立幼兒園沒有拿我們的補助，所以我們基本上就是用協助的方式。"],["李委員坤城：這3年來的比例是有提高，但是還可以再增加啦！"],["張廖次長萬堅：是，我們就這部分會再繼續努力。"],["李委員坤城：謝謝張廖次長，接下來我再請教林次長。"],["林次長靜儀：謝謝委員。"],["李委員坤城：次長，我問一個跟食安比較不相關但是跟病人權益相關的問題，上禮拜五有所謂的颱風準備假，讓很多病人的權益都受到損失，甚至連臺北榮總的陳院長都說，最怕放假的是醫療單位，因為颱風假對醫療院所造成了極大的困難。他也講到，放了颱風假，臺灣大型的醫療院所要面臨的醫療韌性還有病患安全都會受到影響，因為只要政府一通電話宣布放假，成本跟病患的安撫就要由醫院還有醫護人員自行吸收。那我就請問一下，颱風不可測，但是有個科學的方式去評估到底要不要放颱風假，像禮拜五這種看起來就不是颱風假而是所謂的颱風準備假，的確也讓病人的權益受到影響，這方面衛福部有沒有一些標準或是做法，讓病人的權益不要受到影響？"],["林次長靜儀：報告委員，衛福部當然必須兼顧醫療人員，包括他們出勤的安全，還有病人到醫院也有一些安全的考量，所以我相信大家都是一樣的立場，假設有到了氣象署預報那樣子的風雨，或者醫院或病人所處的地方是高度風險的區域，像我們有一些預防性撤離的部分，我想如果因為預警的原因而停止相關的醫療服務，我相信不論是醫療院所、醫療院所的工作人員或民眾，大家都會接受，風大到不行，這個時候跟民眾說取消他們的手術，民眾當然……不過同時他們前往也有困難。可是如果沒有到颱風假的標準，原來在醫療這邊很多都是非常必要的程序時，必須承認，尤其像這種大型醫院一旦停止服務，後續整個影響會是滿多的，不論是民眾或者是相關醫療人員要重新調整排程，這個部分影響是很大的。"],["李委員坤城：對，我的意思是像這種大型醫院，要做一個手術也不是前幾天訂了，今天就可以做，而是可能已經排了很長的時間。"],["林次長靜儀：是。"],["李委員坤城：如果今天不做，下次再排，也不知道是哪個時候。"],["林次長靜儀：要重新排。"],["李委員坤城：對，要重新排。我的意思是，遇到這種不論是颱風準備假還是真的颱風假，對於大型醫療院所的病人權益要怎麼照顧或協助這部分，衛福部有沒有一個SOP出來？"],["林次長靜儀：報告委員，颱風相關的颱風假或者是因為颱風必須要停止上班、上課，這些都不是衛福部主管。"],["李委員坤城：對，我是說醫院。"],["林次長靜儀：醫院的角色或醫療院所其實就是在兼顧所有不論是來上班、出勤醫療人員的安全跟病人權益的部分，我們儘量依照不同的情況來做兼顧。"],["李委員坤城：急診跟住院應該不會受到影響？"],["林次長靜儀：那個沒辦法。"],["李委員坤城：洗腎應該也不會受到影響吧？"],["林次長靜儀：不一定，當然就看醫院，洗腎這種可能持續都有在運作，假設風暴雨急，醫療人員沒有辦法上班，依照勞基法，颱風天沒有辦法出勤，或者是病人沒有辦法去，這個部分當然就真的是不得已。"],["李委員坤城：但是一般不是重大的手術，而是常規手術，有可能就取消了？"],["林次長靜儀：會，都要看醫院這邊，如果有的醫院有配合颱風假，那就取消，如果有的醫院沒有去配合這個部分……不過這個會牽涉到如果沒有宣布颱風假，醫院這邊的運作大概比較能夠依照它的狀況來評估；如果宣布颱風假，很多醫院大概就會取消滿多原來既定的醫療服務，只留下必要的常規服務。"],["李委員坤城：我覺得有關醫療韌性這部分，就是可能會遇到颱風假或什麼樣而受到影響，我們所關心的是病人的權益不要受到影響，我不曉得衛福部要不要跟大型醫療院所有一個比如SOP或是怎麼樣，儘量不要因為這個假或是什麼樣，就讓病人權益受到影響，本來已經排好的又延到很後面去。"],["林次長靜儀：我想醫院都會儘量再幫病人重新安排，依照他的病情重新安排。不過也要跟委員說明，還有另外一個事情我們要衡量的是，突然之間調整醫療或者相關的行政流程、行政量，對於大型又非常繁忙的醫療院所所有醫療人員來講，也是非常非常大的負擔。"],["李委員坤城：對，但是這些醫療成本都是由大型醫院自行吸收了。"],["林次長靜儀：是。"],["李委員坤城：好，OK，謝謝。"],["林次長靜儀：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，我們結束李坤城委員的質詢。","接下來請林思銘委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":426,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-22","speakers":["李彥秀","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","林岱樺","賴惠員","劉書彬","顏寬恒","李坤城","林思銘","羅明才","王世堅","許忠信","洪孟楷","王育敏","楊瓊瓔","葉元之"],"page_start":357,"meetingDate":["2026-07-15"],"gazette_id":"1156302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156302_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第22次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請審計部陳審計長瑞敏、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、衛生福利部石部長崇良、教育部鄭部\n長英耀就「政府食品安全管理機制、食安五環與校園食安預算執行及審核結果」進行專題報告，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1156302_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}