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學校實際有去採購這些油餅油你統計出來的就是到7月10號就是881所 又增加了228所但是1000多所學校有買到相關的產品嗎不是不是"},{"start":86.528,"end":99.765,"text":"第二次那個不是直接油品是衛福部後來又公布說有440項的那個品項就是流通的一些加工食品我們有採用到的我們直接用油品的是260項這樣喔 OK 好"},{"start":101.567,"end":116.967,"text":"那所以我剛才問你到現在又過了五天那數字是否還有更新就是在7月14號為止就是直接使用這個油品有七個縣市有260校包括新北市76校台北市64校"},{"start":118.188,"end":146.243,"text":"桃園13校 基隆11校 台中市69校 高雄14校 台南13校所以這些數字都是學校自行回報給教育部還是說我們派人去調查的對 我們從那個時燈平台裡面 撈出用那個食用油然後呢 7月1號我們一接到之後馬上清查出 先用擴大登錄有可能儀式全部都清查 有油品類的 一共有1300"},{"start":148.565,"end":165.568,"text":"85校那後來7月2號第二天馬上通知各縣市各學校他們開始去比對那個P號因為P號那個比較複雜所以是由學校主動通報給地方政府對 我們主動通報給學校地方政府再要回報給教育部對 地方政府通報給學校然後一一清查出來的"},{"start":165.948,"end":170.254,"text":"昨天為止是7個縣市260校你現在講的學校是指各級學校各級學校從幼兒園一直到我們大學對260校處"},{"start":182.009,"end":199.102,"text":"那我想請教一下 現在是否已經有去了解說是否這些相關的學校這些過去有去採買到這些 使用到這些問題油的這些校園的食品現在是否全部都已經下架做更換"},{"start":199.582,"end":214.222,"text":"對 我們都下架然後也配合地方政府衛生局衛生單位進行這個查封 封驗所以你確認現在都完全沒有問題了對 只要確定了我們剛才講過清查清查的範圍比較大然後已經確定了就是另外如果說"},{"start":215.524,"end":241.877,"text":"學生的家長 因為現在很多都吃下肚了對於這次的毒油事件想對廠商提出迷思告訴的話教育部會協助嗎我想委員的關心行政院消保署也已經指示我們國內兩大消保團體包括消基會 消保協會等來協助一般的民眾消保協會也配合學校的部分"},{"start":242.977,"end":258.65,"text":"教育部也會協助吧對 法律責任離定之後我們教育部會協助受影響的各縣市的學校立法求償好 謝謝 市長您先請回現在我們請惠福部林靜儀林市長還有石耀財副署長"},{"start":262.14,"end":271.654,"text":"市長早市長我想這次的中原油脂這個事件從4月4號它生產的第4個批號315150404的大豆沙拉油開始驗出這個"},{"start":277.222,"end":300.449,"text":"本坪比每公斤8.1維克超標了4倍這批1300公噸問題的油品在市場流通了兩個多月以後才由業者來通報主管機關期間已經流向很多校遊業者甚至進入校園以及一般的消費市場食藥署"},{"start":303.972,"end":324.601,"text":"現在對中聯 重罰一億六千二十萬元 他們也已經繳了 昨天院長講他們也已經繳了那檢調也已經介入偵辦我想這個當然是必要的啦 一定要這麼做但是處罰業者之後 國人的健康怎麼辦 難道就這麼算了嗎"},{"start":328.168,"end":344.84,"text":"我想市民業者的自主檢驗失靈異常的通報延誤上下游的資訊無法及時串聯主管機關最重要主管機關沒有主動發現這個問題蠻嚴重的這邊的稽查是地方政府"},{"start":350.293,"end":378.22,"text":"是 是地方政府那你們也不用主動去了解嗎我們每一年都有給地方政府有品相關的專案希望地方政府去做查核市長 其實我想跟你說的因為剛才你一直講說地方政府我想每次食安事件發生中央政府都可以左邊推給地方政府右邊就推給我們這些食品業者最後才說 就承諾你剛才講的我們這是最後才知道的"},{"start":378.86,"end":407.391,"text":"我們都是被隱瞞的我想這樣的說法就是以過去民進黨在野的時候對我們執政黨的批評真的是非常的雙飄我想EP在市場流通了兩個多月的問題郵品這麼久才讓我們的人民知道所以人民不知道已經吃了多少這些問題郵品到肚子裡面去了身為主管機關"},{"start":408.952,"end":432.586,"text":"當然我們現在看到從昨天的行政院的左院長到今天你的詢答我想你們有在檢討啦有在檢討喔但是我個人是一直覺得難道不用給人民一個道歉嗎你們不用向全國人民來致歉說這件事情我們做得不夠好昨天我們跟院長一樣昨天已經說我們會深切檢討"},{"start":433.658,"end":461.211,"text":"所以做檢討要不要致歉啦謝謝檢討當然造成大家現在帶整個民間的這個狀況我相信我們這張地方我們全部都要來檢討都會檢討啦也要致歉嘛因為其實市長我想這個致歉沒有那麼難啦發生這麼嚴重的一個食安事件你們都在我看到的就是好像一直在推責任推給地方推給業者大家都有責任啊對大家都有責任嘛所以你們會不能讓人家感覺我們事不關己"},{"start":463.406,"end":479.596,"text":"這個都是地方政府沒有通報沒有去落實稽查我想這真的很令人遺憾我想全國人民都在看整個政府執政的態度所以我再請教這個問題我就講到這裡我再請教副署長"},{"start":480.612,"end":493.704,"text":"目前因為受到毒油影響的末端的消費商品是否都是由下游食品業者或者這些餐飲業者這些廠商自行回報給私藥署"},{"start":495.864,"end":523.852,"text":"跟委員報告因為整個稽查是地方政府在執行那一般的稽查的話如果要回收下架是確實依食安法是要跟地方政府衛生局去做回報那這個事件比較特殊所以食藥署是有強力的介入那我在零四的主持的會議有要求這個最關鍵的泰山福壽福茂這三個業者因為他是直接往"},{"start":524.592,"end":545.33,"text":"下面去通路那它的下游通路它最清楚所以我们要求这三家业者必须及时的回报那回报的资讯必须给食药署跟地方卫生局所以目前的话食药署跟地方卫生局是同步掌握这样的资讯所以这个回报的动作食药署已经该你讲的就是已经有下令所有的"},{"start":546.27,"end":572.384,"text":"不管是上游的廠商或者這些下游的就末端的這些食品業者或餐飲店跟地方政府你們要起立就是一起去要求他們通報嘛因為依照標準的話已經都有下令這樣做了吧對 因為依照標準就是地方政府他要去地方稽查確認那因為我們認為這件事情就像剛剛蔡副說的這件事情因為影響很大所以這些事情我想因為現在很多油還沒有收回嘛"},{"start":572.904,"end":592.959,"text":"所以現在持續都有在要求他們就是要回報第一時間是全部下架報告委員全部下架那因為我們後來因為這29批裡面中聯油脂有5批有問題所以我們現在是這29批全部都預防性下架那有問題那5批是絕對不可能再上來了這是一個事情它全部下架回收"},{"start":593.92,"end":594.02,"text":"OK 好"},{"start":619.588,"end":639.597,"text":"我想這個其實我因為很多其實我們剛才一直提到就是說這些末端的消費不管7-11啊或者是這些這個餐飲業者他們使用到其實有很多我們看到說因為依照你們現在回收的一個的你說下架嘛但是依照你們回收的數字啊"},{"start":640.457,"end":669.496,"text":"那個數字的並沒有跟已經那個中聯石油產生的那個批號這五批的數量是不一致的所以就是現在所有還在市面上的全部都下架那下架之後當然逐步的回收但是逐步回收裡面有一些就像剛剛說他可能還扣在某些油槽裡頭根本就不能動那邊我們之後當然如果他那批有問題當然還是其實我是比較關心末端的啦所以你末端已經全部要求他下架不可能再會有這些商品還在架上去"},{"start":669.656,"end":696.049,"text":"我們在7月1號就要求廠商相關產品要下架後來預防性之後預防性下架就全部預防性下架好 次郎我想剛才大家一直關心這個食品源的問題昨天院長也來做院會做專案報告院長表示對於這次毒油要有所作為未來將整合業者自主檢驗第三方驗證 政府抽驗 異常通報"},{"start":697.49,"end":718.133,"text":"以及整合還有集產品的流向來強化食品源的勾結與預警功能我想昨天院長也做這樣的一個宣示所以市長對於食品源的建置能不能讓食品源不只是資料庫而同時要具有預警的功能"},{"start":720.77,"end":742.603,"text":"剛剛本席提到要讓消費者能夠事後檢測他所購買的商品是否有食安的問題說不是只有現在你建構的食品園就是讓我們的消費者預警說這個食品可能有問題而是說如果說"},{"start":743.604,"end":770.058,"text":"他買到的這批食品透過剛才賴斯堡委員質詢的一個財政部開發的雲端的一個平台這個雲端發票的一個平台他就可以去透過發票去檢測說他有沒有買到這樣子的一個這個有問題的一些食品所以你的未來的雲端雲的建置除了預防的功能以外能不能強化他的一個勾擊的一個功能"},{"start":770.754,"end":799.398,"text":"是 我們跟財政部這邊在相關的這個發票的勾結我們在未來會再精進它更多的程序那不過這一次也再跟委員補充就是說因為有一些產品或民眾買的它不見得每個它都有手上有發票所以我們從7月我們就是從這個事件發生之後那我們到現在我們已經在食藥署的這個官方網站的有一個專區我們公布了440項受影響的相關的產品那民眾可以上去比對它是不是有使用到這些產品"},{"start":801.902,"end":809.556,"text":"那衛福部可以給國人食品完成自動預警以及流向國際的期程嗎?大概要多久?"},{"start":811.111,"end":832.245,"text":"這個自動預警包含著我們這些關鍵或者是重要的這些食品那其實也這樣先說就是說在裡面事實上民眾已經是食用最末端我們希望是把這個自動預警回到整個產業鏈的最前端這幾個大廠之間事實上因為像這一次其中有一家廠商他驗到有問題他沒有通報所以我們要把這個通報的機制把它做起來"},{"start":832.885,"end":860.887,"text":"那第二個通貿機制起來之後相關的產業這邊上面這兩層就應該要能夠得到這個資訊而不會讓業者自己在內部跑了兩個月之後才划出來你的食品五環的機制你都要透過雲端機制雲端系統把它整個串起來嘛所以這些產業大的業者每個環好像都要把它串起來啊所以我想未來的雲端的建構希望你們要真的要繼續加強好不好好 謝謝我們結束林思敏委員的質詢接下來請羅明才委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:27:04+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:27:05+08:00","text":"謝謝召委，先請教育部張廖次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-15T11:27:05+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:27:06+08:00","text":"請張廖次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:27:06+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:27:07+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:27:07+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:27:08+08:00","text":"次長早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:27:04.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:27:44.856000+08:00","text":"次長，我看了你今天的報告，教育部在7月8號公布20個縣市有881所學校受影響，包含623所學校及258所幼兒園，在7月10號又公布增加228所學校曾經使用相關的產品，我想請問次長，到今天（7月15號）又過了5天，這個數字是否還有變更？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:27:45.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:27:52.844000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為我們是下游、一般的消費者，我們是跟著衛福部公布的品項進去清查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:27:53.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:06.401000+08:00","text":"委員剛才提到861校的報告是第二層次，就是它不是直接用油品，而是用那個油品製的品項裡面我們有用到的，我們在440項裡面做清查。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:07.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:09.525000+08:00","text":"第一部分是直接用那個油品，譬如那3家，那是215校。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:10.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:11.227000+08:00","text":"這個我知道，我現在問你的是，學校實際有去採購這些油品的，就是學校有去採買的……","quality":0.471},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:11.227000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:12.227000+08:00","text":"我們就是像……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:11.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:15.071000+08:00","text":"以統計出來的，到7月10號是881所，又增加了228所。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:15.071000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:16.071000+08:00","text":"7月6號那個是……","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:15.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:16.733000+08:00","text":"總共有一千多所學校有買到相關的產品……","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:16.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:31.169000+08:00","text":"不是、不是，那個是第二梯次……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:31.169000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:32.210000+08:00","text":"不是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:32.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:39.419000+08:00","text":"不是直接油品，是衛福部後來又公布有440項的品項流通到加工食品……","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:39.419000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:40.419000+08:00","text":"是，所以你們7月10號公布的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:39.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:40.881000+08:00","text":"對，我們有採用到的。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:40.881000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:42.663000+08:00","text":"7月10號的28所學校……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:42.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:43.705000+08:00","text":"對，直接用到油品的是260校。OK。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:45.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:28:50.613000+08:00","text":"所以我剛才問你，到現在又過了5天，數字是否還有更新？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:28:50.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:29:07.611000+08:00","text":"就是7月14號為止，直接使用這些油品的有7個縣市、260校，包括新北市76校、臺北市64校、桃園13校、基隆11校、臺中市69校、高雄14校、臺南13校。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:29:08.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:29:13.874000+08:00","text":"這些數字都是學校自行回報給教育部，還是你們派人去調查的？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:29:13.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:29:40.856000+08:00","text":"我們從食登平臺裡面有撈出用那個食用油，7月1號我們一接到之後，馬上清查出……先用擴大登錄，就是有可能疑似的、油品類的全部都清查，一共有1,385校，後來第二天7月2號馬上通知各縣市、各學校，他們開始去比對批號，因為批號那個比較複雜，有用到……","quality":0.798},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:29:40.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:29:43.780000+08:00","text":"所以是由學校主動通報給地方政府……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:29:43.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:29:44.661000+08:00","text":"對，我們主動通報給學校……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:29:44.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:29:46.063000+08:00","text":"地方政府再通報給教育部？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:29:46.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:29:50.369000+08:00","text":"對，地方政府通報給學校，然後一一清查出來的，到昨天為止是7個縣市、260校，那是油的部分。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:29:50.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:29:51.891000+08:00","text":"OK，再請問，你現在講的學校是指各級學校？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:29:52.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:29:52.672000+08:00","text":"各級學校。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:29:52.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:29:53.633000+08:00","text":"從幼兒園一直到大學？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:29:54.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:29:54.254000+08:00","text":"對，260校處。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:30:06.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:30:23.102000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下，教育部有沒有去了解過去有採買、使用到這些問題油的校園食品，現在是否全部都已經下架做更換？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:30:23.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:30:29.430000+08:00","text":"我們都下架，也配合地方政府衛生局、衛生單位進行查封、封驗、銷毀。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:30:29.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:30:31.894000+08:00","text":"所以你確認現在都完全沒有問題了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:30:32.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:30:37.401000+08:00","text":"對，只要確定了，我們剛才講過清查，清查的範圍比較大，已經確定的就是有……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:30:37.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:30:52.130000+08:00","text":"另外，因為現在很多都吃下肚了，如果學生家長對於這次的毒油事件想對廠商提出民事告訴的話，教育部會協助嗎？","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:30:52.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:31:05.857000+08:00","text":"會，除了委員的關心，行政院消保處也已經指示國內兩大消保團體──消基會、消保協會等協助一般的民眾，消保協會也配合學校的部分，將來在法律……","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:31:06.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:31:07.978000+08:00","text":"教育部也會協助吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-07-15T11:31:08.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:31:14.804000+08:00","text":"對，法律責任釐定之後，我們教育部會協助受影響的各縣市學校依法求償。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:31:14.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:31:17.286000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，次長先請回。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:31:19.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:31:22.650000+08:00","text":"接下來請衛福部林靜儀次長及食藥署蔡副署長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-15T11:31:22.650000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:31:24.445000+08:00","text":"請林次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:31:24.445000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:31:26.240000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:31:26.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:31:26.240000+08:00","text":"次長早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:31:27.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:32:19.337000+08:00","text":"次長，這次中聯油脂事件從4月4號生產第一個批號315-1150404的大豆沙拉油開始驗出苯駢芘每公斤8.1微克，超標了4倍，這批1,300公噸問題的油品在市場流通了兩個多月以後才由業者通報主管機關，期間已經流向很多下游業者，甚至進入校園及一般的消費市場，食藥署現在對中聯重罰1億6,520萬元，昨天院長講他們已經繳了，檢調也已經介入偵辦。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:32:19.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:32:28.601000+08:00","text":"我想這個當然是必要的，一定要這麼做，但是處罰業者之後，國人的健康怎麼辦，難道就這麼算了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:32:32.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:32:45.938000+08:00","text":"我想食品業者的自主檢驗失靈，異常的通報延誤，上下游的資訊無法即時串聯，最重要的是主管機關沒有主動發現，這個問題滿嚴重的。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:32:45.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:32:48.820000+08:00","text":"報告委員，依照食安法第四十一條，這邊的稽查是地方政府。","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:32:54.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:32:58.154000+08:00","text":"是地方政府，那你們也不用主動去了解嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:32:58.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:33:03.215000+08:00","text":"我們每一年都有給地方政府油品相關的專案，希望地方政府去做查核。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:33:04.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:33:36.165000+08:00","text":"好，次長，其實我想跟你說的是，因為剛才你一直在講地方政府，每次食安事件發生時，中央政府都可以左邊推給地方政府，右邊就推給這些食品業者，最後才誠如你剛才講的，我們都是最後才知道的，我們都是被隱瞞的，這樣的說法對比過去民進黨在野的時候對我們執政黨的批評，所以真的是非常的雙標。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:33:36.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:34:09.422000+08:00","text":"一批在市場流通了兩個多月的問題油品這麼久才讓我們的人民知道，人民不知道已經吃了多少這些問題油品到肚子裡面，身為主管機關，從昨天對行政院卓院長的詢答到今天對你的詢答，我想你們有在檢討，但是我個人一直覺得，難道不用給人民一個道歉嗎？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:34:09.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:34:13.405000+08:00","text":"你們不用向全國人民來致歉並表示這件事情你們做得不夠好嗎？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:34:14.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:34:16.586000+08:00","text":"我們跟院長一樣，昨天已經說了我們會深切檢討。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:34:17.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:34:19.659000+08:00","text":"所以有做檢討，但要不要致歉？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:34:19.659000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:34:21.040000+08:00","text":"這是一個態度的問題！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:34:21.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:34:26.782000+08:00","text":"深切檢討，造成現在整個民間的狀況，我相信中央、地方我們全部都要來檢討。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:34:26.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:34:28.763000+08:00","text":"都會檢討，但也要致歉嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:34:30.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:34:32.445000+08:00","text":"次長，我想這個致歉沒有那麼難啦！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:34:33.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:34:40.529000+08:00","text":"發生這麼嚴重的食安事件，我看到的好像是你們一直把責任推給地方、推給業者。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:34:40.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:34:41.610000+08:00","text":"委員，大家都有責任。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:34:42.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:34:53.369000+08:00","text":"對，大家都有責任，所以你們不能讓人家感覺事不關己，這都是地方政府沒有通報、沒有落實稽查，這真的很令人遺憾啦！","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:34:54.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:35:02.795000+08:00","text":"全國人民都在看整個政府執政的態度，這個問題我就講到這裡了。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:35:02.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:35:17.684000+08:00","text":"我再請教副署長，目前因為受到毒油影響的末端消費商品，是否都是由下游食品業者、餐飲業者、廠商自行回報給食藥署？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"蔡副署長淑貞","start":"2026-07-15T11:35:19.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:35:34.088000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為整個稽查是地方政府在執行，若是一般的稽查，如果要回收下架，依食安法確實是要跟地方政府衛生局回報。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"蔡副署長淑貞","start":"2026-07-15T11:35:34.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:36:04.145000+08:00","text":"但這個事件比較特殊，所以食藥署是有強力的介入，且我在林次主持的會議中有要求，最關鍵的泰山、福壽、福懋這三個業者，因為它是直接往下面去通路，下游通路它最清楚，所以我們要求這三家業者必須即時的回報，且回報的資訊必須給食藥署跟地方衛生局，所以目前食藥署跟地方衛生局是同步掌握這樣的資訊。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:36:04.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:36:22.176000+08:00","text":"所以關於這個回報的動作，食藥署就像剛才你講的，已經下令所有的，不管是上游的廠商，或者是下游的、末端的食品業者或餐飲店，同時也跟地方政府齊力，一起去要求他們要通報……","quality":0.699},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:36:22.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:36:23.537000+08:00","text":"因為依照標準……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:36:23.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:36:24.878000+08:00","text":"已經都有下令這樣做了吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:36:25.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:36:33.022000+08:00","text":"對，因為依照標準就是地方政府要去地方稽查、確認，而我們認為這件事情就像剛剛蔡副說的，這件事情因為影響很大……","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:36:34.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:36:41.367000+08:00","text":"因為現在還有很多油沒有收回，所以現在持續都有要求他們回報嗎？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:36:41.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:36:56.939000+08:00","text":"第一時間是全部下架，報告委員，全部下架，在這29批裡面，中聯油脂有5批有問題，所以我們現在要求這29批全部都預防性下架，而有問題的那5批是絕對不可能再上來了，全部要下架回收。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:36:56.939000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:36:57.939000+08:00","text":"至於回收的部分，先跟委員說明目前的狀況，因為有些已經製成食品、已經使用了，這個部分在回收上當然有一定的困難；現在還是食品的、還是成品的、還在的，當然我們就要求業者全部回收，也已經開始啟動回收的機制；有一些可能是在油槽裡頭的，現在就整個扣在油槽裡頭。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:36:57.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:36:58+08:00","text":"OK，好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:37:26.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:37:52.302000+08:00","text":"其實我們剛才一直提到這些末端的消費，不管7-Eleven或者是餐飲業者他們使用到的，依照你們現在回收的機制，剛才你說要予以下架，但是依照你們回收的數字，跟中聯油脂這5批批號的數量並不是一致的。","quality":0.782},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:37:52.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:38:06.131000+08:00","text":"所以現在所有還在市面上的全部都下架了，下架之後當然是逐步的回收，但逐步回收裡面有一些就像剛剛說的，可能還扣在某些油槽裡頭，根本就不能動，如果那一批有問題，當然……","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:38:06.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:38:10.394000+08:00","text":"其實我比較關心末端的部分，所以末端你已經全部要求下架了？是。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:38:11.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:38:13.276000+08:00","text":"這些商品不可能還會在架上？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:38:13.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:38:20.319000+08:00","text":"是，我們在7月1號就要求廠商相關產品要下架，後來則是要求預防性下架，所以就全部都預防性下架了。好。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:38:21.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:38:50.800000+08:00","text":"次長，現在大家一直關心食品雲的問題，昨天院長也來院會專案報告，並表示對於這次毒油事件要有所作為，未來將整合業者自主檢驗、第三方驗證、政府抽驗、異常通報及產品流向，同時強化食品雲的勾稽與預警功能，即昨天院長也做了這樣的宣示。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:38:52.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:39:02.113000+08:00","text":"次長，對於食品雲的建置，能不能讓食品雲不只是資料庫，同時也要具有預警的功能？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:39:04.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:39:44.773000+08:00","text":"剛剛本席提到，要讓消費者能夠事後檢測他所購買的商品是否有食安的問題，並不是你現在建構這個食品雲就可以讓我們的消費者預警到這個食品可能有問題，而是如果他買到的這批食品，透過剛才賴士葆委員質詢的財政部開發的雲端發票平臺，他就可以透過雲端發票平臺去檢測自己有沒有買到這樣有問題的食品。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:39:45.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:39:54.038000+08:00","text":"所以未來在食品雲的建置上，除了預防的功能以外，能不能強化勾稽的功能？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:39:54.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:40:02.240000+08:00","text":"我們跟財政部在相關發票的勾稽上，未來會再精進其更多的程序。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:40:02.240000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-15T11:40:03.461000+08:00","text":"就一起合作。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:40:03.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:40:23.378000+08:00","text":"也再跟委員補充，因為民眾買的有一些產品不見得手上留有發票，所以從這個事件發生之後，我們已經在食藥署官方網站有一個專區，公布了440項受影響的相關產品，民眾可以上去比對自己是不是有使用到這些產品。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:40:26.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:40:33.015000+08:00","text":"最後一個問題，衛福部可以給國人食品雲完成自動預警以及流向勾稽的期程嗎？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:40:33.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:40:33.536000+08:00","text":"大概要多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:40:35.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:40:56.245000+08:00","text":"關於這個自動預警，包含這些關鍵的或者是重要的食品，事實上，民眾已經是使用的最末端，我們希望是把這個自動預警回到整個產業鏈的最前端，包括這幾個大廠之間，事實上，像這一次就是其中有一家廠商驗到有問題，但它沒有通報，所以我們要把通報的機制做起來。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:40:57.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:41:05.292000+08:00","text":"第二個，通報機制做起來之後，相關的產業，即上面這兩層就應該能夠得到這個資訊，而不會讓業者自己在內部找了兩個月才跑出來。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:41:05.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:41:11.136000+08:00","text":"所以食品五環的機制，都要透過雲端系統把整個串起來，而不是每個都串不起來。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:41:11.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:41:14.579000+08:00","text":"所以這些產業中比較大型的業者有這個責任，我們要把他們串起來。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-15T11:41:15.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:41:20.063000+08:00","text":"所以未來雲端的建構希望你們真的要繼續加強，並把它做好，好不好？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-15T11:41:20.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:41:21.384000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-15T11:41:21.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:41:23.305000+08:00","text":"我們結束林思銘委員的質詢。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-15T11:41:23.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-15T11:41:24.887000+08:00","text":"接下來請羅明才委員。","quality":1}]},"gazette":{"lineno":730,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（11時26分）謝謝召委，先請教育部張廖次長。"],["主席：請張廖次長。"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員好。"],["林委員思銘：次長早。次長，我看了你今天的報告，教育部在7月8號公布20個縣市有881所學校受影響，包含623所學校及258所幼兒園，在7月10號又公布增加228所學校曾經使用相關的產品，我想請問次長，到今天（7月15號）又過了5天，這個數字是否還有變更？"],["張廖次長萬堅：報告委員，因為我們是下游、一般的消費者，我們是跟著衛福部公布的品項進去清查。委員剛才提到861校的報告是第二層次，就是它不是直接用油品，而是用那個油品製的品項裡面我們有用到的，我們在440項裡面做清查。第一部分是直接用那個油品，譬如那3家，那是215校。"],["林委員思銘：這個我知道，我現在問你的是，學校實際有去採購這些油品的，就是學校有去採買的……"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們就是像……"],["林委員思銘：以統計出來的，到7月10號是881所，又增加了228所。"],["張廖次長萬堅：7月6號那個是……"],["林委員思銘：總共有一千多所學校有買到相關的產品……"],["張廖次長萬堅：不是、不是，那個是第二梯次……"],["林委員思銘：不是什麼？"],["張廖次長萬堅：不是直接油品，是衛福部後來又公布有440項的品項流通到加工食品……"],["林委員思銘：是，所以你們7月10號公布的……"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，我們有採用到的。"],["林委員思銘：7月10號的28所學校……"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，直接用到油品的是260校。"],["林委員思銘：OK。所以我剛才問你，到現在又過了5天，數字是否還有更新？"],["張廖次長萬堅：就是7月14號為止，直接使用這些油品的有7個縣市、260校，包括新北市76校、臺北市64校、桃園13校、基隆11校、臺中市69校、高雄14校、臺南13校。"],["林委員思銘：這些數字都是學校自行回報給教育部，還是你們派人去調查的？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們從食登平臺裡面有撈出用那個食用油，7月1號我們一接到之後，馬上清查出……先用擴大登錄，就是有可能疑似的、油品類的全部都清查，一共有1,385校，後來第二天7月2號馬上通知各縣市、各學校，他們開始去比對批號，因為批號那個比較複雜，有用到……"],["林委員思銘：所以是由學校主動通報給地方政府……"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，我們主動通報給學校……"],["林委員思銘：地方政府再通報給教育部？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，地方政府通報給學校，然後一一清查出來的，到昨天為止是7個縣市、260校，那是油的部分。"],["林委員思銘：OK，再請問，你現在講的學校是指各級學校？"],["張廖次長萬堅：各級學校。"],["林委員思銘：從幼兒園一直到大學？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，260校處。"],["林委員思銘：我想請教一下，教育部有沒有去了解過去有採買、使用到這些問題油的校園食品，現在是否全部都已經下架做更換？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們都下架，也配合地方政府衛生局、衛生單位進行查封、封驗、銷毀。"],["林委員思銘：所以你確認現在都完全沒有問題了？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，只要確定了，我們剛才講過清查，清查的範圍比較大，已經確定的就是有……"],["林委員思銘：另外，因為現在很多都吃下肚了，如果學生家長對於這次的毒油事件想對廠商提出民事告訴的話，教育部會協助嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：會，除了委員的關心，行政院消保處也已經指示國內兩大消保團體──消基會、消保協會等協助一般的民眾，消保協會也配合學校的部分，將來在法律……"],["林委員思銘：教育部也會協助吧？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，法律責任釐定之後，我們教育部會協助受影響的各縣市學校依法求償。"],["林委員思銘：好，謝謝，次長先請回。接下來請衛福部林靜儀次長及食藥署蔡副署長。"],["主席：請林次長。"],["林次長靜儀：委員好。"],["林委員思銘：次長早。次長，這次中聯油脂事件從4月4號生產第一個批號315-1150404的大豆沙拉油開始驗出苯駢芘每公斤8.1微克，超標了4倍，這批1,300公噸問題的油品在市場流通了兩個多月以後才由業者通報主管機關，期間已經流向很多下游業者，甚至進入校園及一般的消費市場，食藥署現在對中聯重罰1億6,520萬元，昨天院長講他們已經繳了，檢調也已經介入偵辦。我想這個當然是必要的，一定要這麼做，但是處罰業者之後，國人的健康怎麼辦，難道就這麼算了嗎？我想食品業者的自主檢驗失靈，異常的通報延誤，上下游的資訊無法即時串聯，最重要的是主管機關沒有主動發現，這個問題滿嚴重的。"],["林次長靜儀：報告委員，依照食安法第四十一條，這邊的稽查是地方政府。"],["林委員思銘：是地方政府，那你們也不用主動去了解嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：我們每一年都有給地方政府油品相關的專案，希望地方政府去做查核。"],["林委員思銘：好，次長，其實我想跟你說的是，因為剛才你一直在講地方政府，每次食安事件發生時，中央政府都可以左邊推給地方政府，右邊就推給這些食品業者，最後才誠如你剛才講的，我們都是最後才知道的，我們都是被隱瞞的，這樣的說法對比過去民進黨在野的時候對我們執政黨的批評，所以真的是非常的雙標。一批在市場流通了兩個多月的問題油品這麼久才讓我們的人民知道，人民不知道已經吃了多少這些問題油品到肚子裡面，身為主管機關，從昨天對行政院卓院長的詢答到今天對你的詢答，我想你們有在檢討，但是我個人一直覺得，難道不用給人民一個道歉嗎？你們不用向全國人民來致歉並表示這件事情你們做得不夠好嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：我們跟院長一樣，昨天已經說了我們會深切檢討。"],["林委員思銘：所以有做檢討，但要不要致歉？這是一個態度的問題！"],["林次長靜儀：深切檢討，造成現在整個民間的狀況，我相信中央、地方我們全部都要來檢討。"],["林委員思銘：都會檢討，但也要致歉嘛！次長，我想這個致歉沒有那麼難啦！發生這麼嚴重的食安事件，我看到的好像是你們一直把責任推給地方、推給業者。"],["林次長靜儀：委員，大家都有責任。"],["林委員思銘：對，大家都有責任，所以你們不能讓人家感覺事不關己，這都是地方政府沒有通報、沒有落實稽查，這真的很令人遺憾啦！全國人民都在看整個政府執政的態度，這個問題我就講到這裡了。","我再請教副署長，目前因為受到毒油影響的末端消費商品，是否都是由下游食品業者、餐飲業者、廠商自行回報給食藥署？"],["蔡副署長淑貞：跟委員報告，因為整個稽查是地方政府在執行，若是一般的稽查，如果要回收下架，依食安法確實是要跟地方政府衛生局回報。但這個事件比較特殊，所以食藥署是有強力的介入，且我在林次主持的會議中有要求，最關鍵的泰山、福壽、福懋這三個業者，因為它是直接往下面去通路，下游通路它最清楚，所以我們要求這三家業者必須即時的回報，且回報的資訊必須給食藥署跟地方衛生局，所以目前食藥署跟地方衛生局是同步掌握這樣的資訊。"],["林委員思銘：所以關於這個回報的動作，食藥署就像剛才你講的，已經下令所有的，不管是上游的廠商，或者是下游的、末端的食品業者或餐飲店，同時也跟地方政府齊力，一起去要求他們要通報……"],["林次長靜儀：因為依照標準……"],["林委員思銘：已經都有下令這樣做了吧？"],["林次長靜儀：對，因為依照標準就是地方政府要去地方稽查、確認，而我們認為這件事情就像剛剛蔡副說的，這件事情因為影響很大……"],["林委員思銘：因為現在還有很多油沒有收回，所以現在持續都有要求他們回報嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：第一時間是全部下架，報告委員，全部下架，在這29批裡面，中聯油脂有5批有問題，所以我們現在要求這29批全部都預防性下架，而有問題的那5批是絕對不可能再上來了，全部要下架回收。至於回收的部分，先跟委員說明目前的狀況，因為有些已經製成食品、已經使用了，這個部分在回收上當然有一定的困難；現在還是食品的、還是成品的、還在的，當然我們就要求業者全部回收，也已經開始啟動回收的機制；有一些可能是在油槽裡頭的，現在就整個扣在油槽裡頭。"],["林委員思銘：OK，好。其實我們剛才一直提到這些末端的消費，不管7-Eleven或者是餐飲業者他們使用到的，依照你們現在回收的機制，剛才你說要予以下架，但是依照你們回收的數字，跟中聯油脂這5批批號的數量並不是一致的。"],["林次長靜儀：所以現在所有還在市面上的全部都下架了，下架之後當然是逐步的回收，但逐步回收裡面有一些就像剛剛說的，可能還扣在某些油槽裡頭，根本就不能動，如果那一批有問題，當然……"],["林委員思銘：其實我比較關心末端的部分，所以末端你已經全部要求下架了？"],["林次長靜儀：是。"],["林委員思銘：這些商品不可能還會在架上？"],["林次長靜儀：是，我們在7月1號就要求廠商相關產品要下架，後來則是要求預防性下架，所以就全部都預防性下架了。"],["林委員思銘：好。次長，現在大家一直關心食品雲的問題，昨天院長也來院會專案報告，並表示對於這次毒油事件要有所作為，未來將整合業者自主檢驗、第三方驗證、政府抽驗、異常通報及產品流向，同時強化食品雲的勾稽與預警功能，即昨天院長也做了這樣的宣示。次長，對於食品雲的建置，能不能讓食品雲不只是資料庫，同時也要具有預警的功能？剛剛本席提到，要讓消費者能夠事後檢測他所購買的商品是否有食安的問題，並不是你現在建構這個食品雲就可以讓我們的消費者預警到這個食品可能有問題，而是如果他買到的這批食品，透過剛才賴士葆委員質詢的財政部開發的雲端發票平臺，他就可以透過雲端發票平臺去檢測自己有沒有買到這樣有問題的食品。所以未來在食品雲的建置上，除了預防的功能以外，能不能強化勾稽的功能？"],["林次長靜儀：我們跟財政部在相關發票的勾稽上，未來會再精進其更多的程序。"],["林委員思銘：就一起合作。"],["林次長靜儀：也再跟委員補充，因為民眾買的有一些產品不見得手上留有發票，所以從這個事件發生之後，我們已經在食藥署官方網站有一個專區，公布了440項受影響的相關產品，民眾可以上去比對自己是不是有使用到這些產品。"],["林委員思銘：最後一個問題，衛福部可以給國人食品雲完成自動預警以及流向勾稽的期程嗎？大概要多久？"],["林次長靜儀：關於這個自動預警，包含這些關鍵的或者是重要的食品，事實上，民眾已經是使用的最末端，我們希望是把這個自動預警回到整個產業鏈的最前端，包括這幾個大廠之間，事實上，像這一次就是其中有一家廠商驗到有問題，但它沒有通報，所以我們要把通報的機制做起來。","第二個，通報機制做起來之後，相關的產業，即上面這兩層就應該能夠得到這個資訊，而不會讓業者自己在內部找了兩個月才跑出來。"],["林委員思銘：所以食品五環的機制，都要透過雲端系統把整個串起來，而不是每個都串不起來。"],["林次長靜儀：所以這些產業中比較大型的業者有這個責任，我們要把他們串起來。"],["林委員思銘：所以未來雲端的建構希望你們真的要繼續加強，並把它做好，好不好？"],["林次長靜儀：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：我們結束林思銘委員的質詢。","接下來請羅明才委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":426,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-22","speakers":["李彥秀","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","林岱樺","賴惠員","劉書彬","顏寬恒","李坤城","林思銘","羅明才","王世堅","許忠信","洪孟楷","王育敏","楊瓊瓔","葉元之"],"page_start":357,"meetingDate":["2026-07-15"],"gazette_id":"1156302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156302_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第22次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請審計部陳審計長瑞敏、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、衛生福利部石部長崇良、教育部鄭部\n長英耀就「政府食品安全管理機制、食安五環與校園食安預算執行及審核結果」進行專題報告，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1156302_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}