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麻煩請部長 謝謝有請部長"},{"start":16.38,"end":38.857,"text":"廖委員好部長好那個上一次我們在那邊審預算的時候我就覺得部長真的有那個知識分子的風骨啦面對大家質疑台灣Plus跟公夫的投資失敗你當下立刻就承認錯誤就說台灣Plus是個災難然後公夫令人傻眼但我沒有講到兩天後部長出席活動的時候感覺又變了一個人"},{"start":39.477,"end":44.408,"text":"就是說我是說錯話啦我那天是為了要得到預算你要我得到預算我什麼話我都講得出來我是說錯話請原諒我說錯話"},{"start":49.714,"end":70.317,"text":"我第一個 部長你來立法院我不知道現在你是什麼心情是不是也是想說混過這個諮詢時間隨便講講反正明天又是議委活龍我不知道因為那天審預算就是這樣第二個我覺得很奇怪因為你說你是會得到預算所以你才故意這樣迎合"},{"start":71.178,"end":96.298,"text":"立法委員可能那天羅志強比較兇你要讓他軟化所以你就故意軟化所以他也真的軟化了你真的騙到他了但如果你的目的是為了預算預算還沒審完啊現在還有第二輪啊所以你忽然間改口那不是讓大家覺得說喔你是這種人喔那第二輪我要嚴審所以你達不到你要騙預算的目的啊所以我懷疑啦我懷疑啦你是不是那一天太誠實了"},{"start":98.08,"end":110.781,"text":"導致於你可能是不是被九把刀的某某朋友罵還是呢被台灣plus的某某支持者罵所以逼迫你必須要改口這是什麼原因啊"},{"start":115.031,"end":129.565,"text":"沒有人逼迫我沒有我講的每一句話在這兩天在不同的狀況講的每一句話都是因為我今天在跟大家報告文策院也好台灣普拉斯也好它成立的時間很短不不不"},{"start":130.566,"end":151.957,"text":"我們只是很有限 我就真的不能回答因為我的一個問 我的好奇是說如果你是為了當下是為了要預算過預算 所以你才這樣講然後隔兩天你就覺得我不是那個意思我只為預算 但預算還沒審完啊所以你到底是為了什麼其實那個我們在字眼上不要用騙預算其實我那一刻是發自內心委員對我指教"},{"start":152.637,"end":176.631,"text":"我願意面對所有的問題,包括文采院的問題好啦,不要唸稿啦,你是一個人人欸,你還要看著稿唸好啦,部長,我跟你講,我們質詢時間真的是很有限我真的沒辦法讓你長篇大論啦,其實我的問題大家聽得很清楚啦一個你的改口,我認為有兩個問題啦一個就是不可以來立法院這樣子啦"},{"start":177.251,"end":205.856,"text":"什麼叫做當下為了要過預算所以我只好這樣講那其實我不是那個意思原諒我說錯話那你每次在這邊我們怎麼知道面對的是哪一個小野還是部長還是李源還是你不是你的你我覺得不能這樣子大家都以誠待人我們就找問題解決問題因為你是政務官納稅人給文化部錢希望我們把關你如果覺得我們講有道理就更正改進就好我覺得大家不要來這邊話術來話出去納稅人也不想看到這樣所以我覺得你要永保初衷"},{"start":206.616,"end":229.835,"text":"你就是省預算的那一天的你 就是災難台灣Plus 我等一下會證明給你看好不好 功夫就是投資失敗對不對 你沒有說錯話 你要有勇氣好不好 你不要迫於壓力 這個該講什麼就講什麼 對不對那我們就直接進入到那個台灣Plus為什麼我覺得台灣Plus災難 我看到你們那個報告 我都覺得好笑"},{"start":231.016,"end":255.031,"text":"真的第一個你們報告講說台灣Plus現在台灣Plus已經拿了大概98億快100億了啦100億其實是一個非常大的數字一年10億這很大一筆錢但是它到底達到什麼效果呢這個根據你們的報告講台灣Plus是要及時而且深度的傳達台灣的觀點跟故事所以應該是要用台灣的觀點跟全世界講"},{"start":255.811,"end":261.1,"text":"台灣人是怎麼看待這件事情結果呢 你們的做法完全是背道而馳第一個"},{"start":262.386,"end":287.297,"text":"你們在你們的報告裡面也有提到一個節目叫台灣Talk台灣Talk我覺得超奇怪的第一個它的主持人是外國人我是不太懂啊為什麼我們要向全世界傳達台灣的聲音結果要找一個外國人來台灣傳達台灣的聲音台灣人沒有一個可以傳達台灣的聲音要外國人來傳達台灣的聲音而且這個外國人是有什麼特別的代表性嗎"},{"start":288.697,"end":305.588,"text":"第二個你這個節目每次找兩個來賓兩個來賓裡面常常也有一個是外國人甚至兩個都是外國人然後如果有台灣人有時候那個台灣人他也能夠傳到台灣的聲音嗎他也有他的立場啊我還有看過那個台灣人是民進黨的政治人物"},{"start":306.588,"end":317.375,"text":"結果你在你的報告裡面還把這個台灣Talk當作是一個很重要的宣傳說台灣Talk很棒到底是為什麼啊是為什麼一定要找外國人來傳達台灣的聲音啊"},{"start":320.59,"end":348.362,"text":"不講不講不講台灣Plus的問題如果你還講不出來的話我是覺得很失職了啦因為今天的重點就是要講台灣Plus你應該是在今天來之前就要針對這個問題好好跟台灣Plus討論請問為什麼一定要找外國人來講台灣的聲音其實我一開始就講了很多關於這個的問題就是針對問題回答啦因為我後面問題很多這樣子我講不完好不好為什麼就是為什麼要找"},{"start":348.982,"end":367.716,"text":"外國人來傳達台灣的聲音為什麼要找外國人傳達台灣的聲音這個問題就是在我們一開始定位這個頻道的時候大量招募國外的記者的原因是我們需要一個國際頻道他們英文的發音各種條件都很高但是我們到了目前為止"},{"start":368.436,"end":388.654,"text":"慢慢地融入自己的本土感因為我後面題目很多所以你的選擇條件就是因為要英文嘛英文只是語言只是工具重點是內容跟觀點我覺得你找外國人來講這個事情就是莫名其妙第二個我們來看你台灣Plus除了台灣Talk之外還有另外一個節目叫Connected嘛對吧"},{"start":390.29,"end":418.072,"text":"妙了勒 這個節目也是外國人當主持人所有的台灣plus的節目通通都是外國人當主持人然後來賓也是一堆外國人台灣沒人才了嗎部長就像你也是一個很好的人才啊你也常常可以忠實傳達台灣聲音啊為什麼要找外國人來勒而且以前我們也有發現很多外國人來之後又水土不服又離開離開之後還在臉書發表長篇大論把台灣plus罵一頓你真的覺得這是一個好的做法嗎"},{"start":419.78,"end":442.332,"text":"當然不是好做嘛所以為什麼我會說我們要從開始到現在不斷的調整我們的記者不斷的調整我們的結構不斷的調整我們的節目不是啊 部長一個媒體剛出來的時候當然它有適應期嘛但是Town Plus從它創台到現在已經很多年了我現在講的是正在發生的事情你如果告訴我說過了那麼多年你還在調整"},{"start":444.709,"end":448.663,"text":"那這個媒體代表它沒有效果嘛那我們是不是還要每年燒十億"},{"start":450.478,"end":474.238,"text":"再燒一百億再燒兩百億去做這一件達不到你原本的初始效果的事情這是我覺得你要去考慮的是不是災難我們等一下再來講然後再來喔這個在你們報告裡面有提到台灣Talks這個我都是引用你們報告喔台灣Talks這個節目主要觀眾來源是印度菲律賓及美國我想請問一下菲律賓佔多少%數因為寫得很籠統有沒有佔到一半"},{"start":480.151,"end":494.357,"text":"有沒有12%菲律賓12%對菲律賓12%印度呢印度多少少於12%然後其他全部都美國嗎美國44%然後其他勒"},{"start":499.246,"end":525.558,"text":"你這個數據我也不知道真的還假的啦這個部長我為什麼這樣子講呢當初說我們台灣plus的目的是要跟全世界傳達台灣的聲音吧結果你的主要觀眾來源是印度菲律賓而且特別我去看了一下為什麼是菲律賓因為你節目裡面常常在講菲律賓常常在講菲律賓我是不知道為什麼菲律賓這個國家對於台灣plus來說這麼重要你現在是要統戰菲律賓還是怎麼樣"},{"start":526.704,"end":546.607,"text":"我們現在全世界這麼多個國家為什麼你不是針對宏都拉斯你們不是常常在講說宏都拉斯白蝦都現在跟台灣斷交以後都賣不出去然後外交部要去努力把宏都拉斯建交回來為什麼不是針對宏都拉斯為什麼不是澳洲為什麼不是日本現在不是要發展台歐關係為什麼是菲律賓"},{"start":548.271,"end":574.306,"text":"阿菲律賓有對我們特別好嗎之前那個南海仲裁十週年阿菲律賓在太平島主權還跟我們有爭議咧他現在是要放棄太平島主權嗎為什麼是菲律賓部長可以回答嗎當然可以喔因為這個節目本身我們談的是地緣政治地緣政治只有菲律賓喔我覺得菲律賓日本不重要 韓國不重要但是我們這個節目受到菲律賓的重視對 為什麼嘛"},{"start":575.527,"end":603.229,"text":"就是為什麼我們target是菲律賓嘛我們不是target是菲律賓不是你結果就是菲律賓嘛部長不要再凹了啦我覺得大家都有公平啦你說地緣政治地緣政治這麼多的國家你只中菲律賓這到底是因為這個節目製作單位選材的問題還是特定幾個人的主要觀點問題對不對這個你要去了解啊這很奇怪嘛這也是非常奇怪一件事情再來我們繼續看"},{"start":604.81,"end":623.137,"text":"那個 你講說 我看你們報告喔 你說 唉 台灣普拉茲很有成果啦 因為呢 喔 很多國外的媒體都引用我們的新聞啊 像 颱風啊 也有引用我們的畫面 不是啊台灣普拉茲的存在目的是這個嗎 我跟你講 有一個媒體做得比台灣普拉茲還要好 在這一塊 你知道什麼媒體嗎跟你也有 也有關係啦 中央社啦"},{"start":623.942,"end":646.861,"text":"中央社就是在做這個的嘛中央社他的所有的媒體他也負責海外宣傳然後他跟美聯社各國家的通訊社通通都有合作在海外也有據點所以你現在所謂的town plus引以為傲的有一些國外媒體引用我們的畫面中央社通通都做得到啊那你何必跌床架屋再來"},{"start":650.049,"end":671.874,"text":"你們講到說台灣PLUS有它是一個電視台嘛對不對所以台灣也看得到嘛好像在無限地7頻道然後在有限電視台MOD也都有海外也有對不對海外說在現在要在英國愛爾蘭然後那個馬來西亞印度帛琉甚至我看新聞說新加坡也有啦請問一下收視率多少有統計過收視率嗎海外收視率有沒有"},{"start":681.294,"end":698.792,"text":"海外都是OTT點擊為主不是 收視率啦 什麼OTT點擊我講的是 你有落地嗎人家打開電視都看得到你跟我講OTT點擊 收視率你一個是電視台是收視率如果是社群媒體是點擊我現在問的是收視率社群我等一下會問 收視率多少"},{"start":699.252,"end":725.788,"text":"跟委員報告像印度JOY TV它就是OTT平台馬來西亞MALA MALA也都是OTT平台都是OTT平台是是那沒有那種那譬如說台灣收視率多少我們台灣沒有訂購收視率沒有什麼沒有訂購收視率所以你們連你有電視台你連收視率你都不在乎所以你們是一個沒有KPI的媒體嘛"},{"start":727.111,"end":747.351,"text":"報告委員我們是公共媒體然後我們是以社群媒體你是一個沒有可以不是不管說你的重點在哪裡收視率也是一個很重要參考指標嘛因為整個國際的管理習慣你看一個電視台他連收視率他都不在乎連訂閱報告都沒有訂閱海外也都沒有"},{"start":748.112,"end":771.879,"text":"然後說是有一些是OTT平台他看點閱沒關係收視率你講不出來那我們來看點閱率這個是你們統計的嘛4.7萬億次嘛這是全部平台相加嘛對吧這是你報告吧沒有錯吧4億很多嗎我們現在已經到4.8億了一樣嘛這個是你給我的報告嘛那你為什麼不寫4.8億你為什麼要寫4.7億你為什麼在今天報告你還要給錯資料為什麼"},{"start":777.248,"end":801.346,"text":"然後狗狗在更正為什麼我們逐步成長因為你一天成長一千萬喔不要在那邊耍嘴皮子啦部長可以回來嗎我今天是質詢李遠部長不是這位好不好因為這個問題跟你講你要去盯啦一個沒有KPI的公共媒體4.7億很多嗎全部加起來很多嗎你知道我昨天問一個網紅叫CHIP他說他的點閱率剛破4億"},{"start":806.707,"end":820.256,"text":"真的沒有很多啦而且你這個很多都是短影音去刷的嘛你是想要深度報導嘛你很多是短影去刷的嘛真的沒有很多啦所以收視率沒有統計流量也沒有很高我們再來看我們再來看你現在預算非常多其實你們有很多是偽製對吧都是委外的吧有一個我隨便看了一個節目我聽說啦一集的偽製"},{"start":836.008,"end":864.916,"text":"預算是六十萬我不知道真的還假的這個後面是真的還假的一起偽製預算一個單元訪談節目六十萬有沒有有沒有這個狀況報告委員可能要給我們節目名稱比如說一個好像有一個那個我最近訪問王文洋還是誰的節目主持人有沒有我沒有你們你們偽製節目最高的預算是多少"},{"start":866.411,"end":892.892,"text":"一個談話節目 委制預算委外喔 不是你們現在用你們的機油的設備那些喔是委託外面的製作單位製作的最高多少平均預算大概10到11萬那其他的呢 譬如說一個聶雲的節目一集委外多少這主要是看內容所以我要回去瞭解這我要回去瞭解 你都不知道喔你都不知道 有沒有一集60萬的不會到60萬確定 那如果有怎麼辦"},{"start":896.007,"end":923.574,"text":"所以我回去再詳細了解所以你都不知道你都不知道你們你都不知道不曉得你們有偽製那效益是什麼他的點擊還有點擊也不高啊我看也不高啊點擊相當不錯點擊並沒有不錯並沒有不錯並沒有不錯並沒有不錯我們有幾個節目包括剛剛委員有提到有幾個不是啦好好不想不想請請請請請請到質詢台吧"},{"start":925.994,"end":946.813,"text":"我剛剛講了這麼多啦當然你一年花十億下去你當然可以說我有一個節目很不錯國外有一個媒體用了我的畫面可以挑一些零星的效果放在你的報告裡面包裝的好像效果很好但這個媒體我們已經幾年花了快一百億耶快一百億是這樣的效果部長你滿意嗎"},{"start":948.715,"end":973.123,"text":"你如果再花100億他可以達到什麼效果還是一樣主要的對象都菲律賓題材也都是菲律賓然後流量還是一樣大概不如跟台灣的一個國內網紅差不多然後偽製的預算這麼高然後找了一堆外國人來講台灣的觀點這個媒體到底定位是什麼效果是什麼 KPI是什麼"},{"start":974.788,"end":980.191,"text":"你在管理一個媒體的時候都沒有去想這些問題嗎這都納稅人的錢耶然後今天部長你都已經知道我們要討論他們的政策結果問你問題我問的問題都是很大項問題我不是問你很細的問題結果都要旁邊的一直地址條不是 那你讓我回答嘛你說沒有機會跟我講話嘛"},{"start":993.897,"end":1017.219,"text":"那你要針對問題回答譬如說你剛才講100億那不是這個數字啊5年32億啊我們每年就是那個那個絕對沒有到10億啊所以你沒有機會跟我講所以你一口氣玩下去還是很多啊不是啊還是很多啊100億跟還是很多啊就像剛才講到外國外國記者那我們就是因為一開始是外國記者"},{"start":1018.922,"end":1043.478,"text":"做了幾年之後我慢慢調整到本國記者72%外國記者28%我剛剛講的是節目主持人我講的是節目耶不然我不是不給你時間回答每次給你時間回答你都沒有針對我的問題回答我剛剛舉的都是節目你們旗艦節目你放在報告裡面宣傳節目都是外國的主持人嘛外國的來賓嘛講台灣的觀點嘛很怪嘛是"},{"start":1044.378,"end":1062.655,"text":"可是因為你剛剛有些問題 譬如說一期六十萬我還真的不會答那你了解一下嘛 好不好這個就是預算使用 亂用嘛沒有KPI嘛沒有目標嘛反正要到的錢隨便花嘛有諮詢率就好 然後再來有人在管嗎總編輯回來了嗎"},{"start":1066.201,"end":1080.682,"text":"遠距工作三個月回來了嗎回來了啊禮拜二回來的嘛對不對是上次說七月十號嘛結果禮拜二回來嘛為什麼一個總編輯可以遠距工作三個月部長你可以到美國遠距工作三個月領導文化部嗎"},{"start":1082.435,"end":1098.961,"text":"你會做這個事嗎?這個左銘一直是去年就來了齁但是就有想好他有三個月在美國工作但是那個美國工作他到底做了什麼其實我報告上寫得非常清楚他人在美國照樣進行但是因為人在美國還要進行了好幾個合作計畫就是說"},{"start":1100.402,"end":1119.078,"text":"他不是一個答應的一個媒體機構有分工如果有需要美國計畫你就派另外的人去美國計畫總編輯是領導所有媒體的人他可以不在台灣嗎他是副總副執行長他可以不在台灣嗎然後還有時差他負責所有的編輯耶他是副執行長所以對啊"},{"start":1120.919,"end":1138.622,"text":"所以只要因為他有任務在美國所以他就可以在美國然後可以遠距工作三個月大家聽得下去嗎任何一個媒體可以這樣嗎哪個媒體沒有海外的合作項目所以只要有海外的合作項目他就可以去海外三個月可以這樣子喔那你文化部也有海外合作項目啊那部長你也去三個月啊"},{"start":1140.632,"end":1160.897,"text":"不合理嘛 就不合理嘛 那是誰批准的這件事情台灣Plus有沒有人在管理嘛其實我跟你講 我不是要一直推拖那個責任是因為我們台灣Plus屬於公共廣播集團有非常多事情包括人的任命 做什麼我都不能干預它你是不讓我請執行長來講"},{"start":1163.438,"end":1184.651,"text":"你都不能干預他然後呢你又來備詢然後呢他又做得很莫名其妙然後執行長也是一問三不知問他一集委制費我們60萬我不知道我要回去查一下然後呢委員沒有什麼之類的你們講什麼都在這邊反正他再也不會來了啊好時間到不是這什麼這樣這是什麼態度嘛是不是災難嘛部長"},{"start":1186.69,"end":1202.777,"text":"是不是災難其實我現在齁你說是災難其實你說是災難我們才能夠讓災難平息嘛如果你認為不是災難那不好意思可能明年可能幾年之後我們還在講一樣問題對不對那我來看到說統戰菲律賓有沒有成功嘛"},{"start":1203.379,"end":1215.303,"text":"我希望能夠因為這樣的事情我們重新檢討勇敢面對問題其實我們這邊有做蠻多改變啊我講的都是現在的事喔我沒有講幾年前的事我講的是現在發生的事"},{"start":1217.281,"end":1243.356,"text":"你改變之後還是這樣現在我已經有時候因為我講的話前因後果被拿掉之後單獨一句話我其實本來自己認為我是一個非常會表達的人我也自己以為我會很會溝通可是我今天站在這個台上我其實嘴巴張開我不太會講話為什麼因為我每次講得很完整的一大段以後我總是會拿出一句來"},{"start":1244.878,"end":1261.295,"text":"我就變成我不太會解釋我跟你講啦因為你現在有包袱啦我不是包袱欸所以你怕說真話又不小心被人家包袱太重你們一直問我說提亮你啦你們一直問我說以前小野現在林遠我可以告訴你我是同一個人嘛"},{"start":1262.176,"end":1281.942,"text":"我同一個人嘛你要哽咽啦我沒有哽咽 我聲音破了我沒有哽咽 我沒那麼容易哽咽好 時間到再一分鐘 再一分鐘Megan 那這個我覺得是災難啦你沒講錯 不要改口 好不好然後 我想問一下那個一樣 另外一個議題 你說功夫"},{"start":1283.326,"end":1303.053,"text":"電影補助的問題但我這就很快提一下我認為啦這個就給你建議好不好我認為電影輔導金當初成立有它的目的後來文策院成立也有它的目的但是文策院成立之後電影輔導金它的目的並沒有改變所以就變成跌床架屋我們就舉功夫這個例子為例"},{"start":1305.086,"end":1322.37,"text":"當文策院他的重點是因為認為焦巴刀是一個好導演過去的時期所以投資了一億給他希望能夠回收然後這一億的目的是點火希望他可以利用這個一億去引進民間資金讓他有足夠的資金去拍片那你輔導金為什麼還要做一樣的事情呢你輔導金當初就是要輔導那些不容易找到民間資金的那些導演嘛"},{"start":1331.311,"end":1350.361,"text":"那為什麼後來成立了國發基金在文策院之後我們輔導金也沒有改變呢跌床架屋啊就變成它就變成慈禧效應嘛像九把刀這種就兩邊拿拿很多那有一些可能真的需要輔導金幫忙的它真的過去名氣沒有那麼高"},{"start":1351.547,"end":1367.643,"text":"他就沒有辦法達到引起民間資金的效果所以請你們好不好因為主席已經在很久請你們去檢討一下文策院出來之後國發基金投資出來之後輔導金的補助辦法"},{"start":1368.624,"end":1377.971,"text":"要不要做調整可以嗎因為這有排擠效果我可不可以講一句話可以事實上輔導機裡面有一個叫新人組專門針對沒有拍過電影的導演50%拿到錢喔我知道全世界只有台灣只有到"},{"start":1384.176,"end":1403.172,"text":"所以他沒有排擠啊沒有沒有有排擠因為他就是總額三億嘛那你有四個項我知道嘛有新人族動畫族這種我都知道我現在是針對說你不需要譬如說我們看結果來講扶老金我認為就是不需要補助九把頭為什麼補助他你國家經營補助一億啊你為什麼扶老金還要給他三千五百萬"},{"start":1404.855,"end":1424.285,"text":"為什麼他拿的好像是下一部電影的錢因為他曾經推過一下公租這部電影就拿了一億五千萬一億國發基金三千五百萬國片輔導金你國發基金給他一億為什麼國片輔導金還要給他三千五百萬為什麼所以在上一次我有特別講說我們重新針對輔導金跟投資這兩項其實我們最近有開了會"},{"start":1429.628,"end":1444.304,"text":"我跟委員報告好 你要調整嘛對不對所以你也覺得有問題嘛所以功夫就令人傻眼嘛好 那沒關係你最後的制度再給我們但是我今天今天為什麼招人會排這個報告你看他題目也很有藝術你栽贊說來看文化部門為什麼 因為你栽贊說對的"},{"start":1447.808,"end":1465.156,"text":"希望你不要改口你不要今天來這邊又一副就是對我以為你講的都對我們要調整回去隔兩天之後又講說我那天就是因為他一直他講我沒辦法我就應付他不然我下不去啊什麼之類希望我不要看到你再講這樣的話好不好好沒問題心口合一好謝謝部長謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:04:55.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:04:56.124000+08:00","text":"主席好，麻煩請部長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T10:04:56.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:04:56.324000+08:00","text":"有請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:05:03.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:05:03.780000+08:00","text":"葉委員好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:05:04.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:05:04.641000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:05:05.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:05:21.593000+08:00","text":"上一次我們在這邊審預算的時候，我就覺得部長真的有知識份子的風骨，面對大家質疑TaiwanPlus跟「功夫」的投資失敗，你當下立刻就承認錯誤，說TaiwanPlus是個災難，功夫令人傻眼。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:05:22.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:05:28.101000+08:00","text":"但我沒有想到兩天後部長出席活動的時候感覺又變了一個人，說我是說錯話啦！","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:05:28.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:05:31.408000+08:00","text":"我那天是為了要得到預算，為了得到預算我什麼話都講得出來，我是說錯話，請原諒我說錯話。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:05:37.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:05:49.789000+08:00","text":"第一個，部長，你來立法院，我不知道現在你是什麼心情，是不是也是想說混過這個質詢時間，隨便講講，反正明天又是一尾活龍，我不知道，因為那天審預算你就是這樣嘛！","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:05:49.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:06:05.864000+08:00","text":"第二個，我覺得很奇怪，因為你說你是為了得到預算，所以才故意這樣迎合立法委員，可能那天羅智強比較兇，你要讓他軟化，所以你就故意軟化，所以他也真的軟化了，你真的騙到他了。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:06:06.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:06:15.812000+08:00","text":"但如果你的目的是為了預算，預算還沒審完，現在還有第二輪，所以你忽然間改口，那不是讓大家覺得，原來你這種人，那第二輪我要嚴審。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:06:16.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:06:21.376000+08:00","text":"這樣你達不到你要騙預算的目的，所以我懷疑啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:06:21.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:06:36.418000+08:00","text":"你是不是因為那一天太誠實了，導致你被九把刀的某某朋友罵，還是被TaiwanPlus的某某支持者罵，所以逼迫你必須要改口？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:06:37.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:06:37.761000+08:00","text":"是什麼原因啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:06:42.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:06:55.484000+08:00","text":"沒有人逼迫我，我在這兩天、在不同的狀況講的每一句話都是因為我今天在跟大家報告，文策院也好，TaiwanPlus也好，它成立的時間很短……","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:06:57.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:06:59.587000+08:00","text":"部長，我的質詢時間很有限，就針對問題回答。","quality":0.389},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:07:00.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:07:09.092000+08:00","text":"我好奇的是，如果你當下是為了要過預算，所以你才這樣講，然後隔兩天你就覺得你不是那個意思，你只是為了預算。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:07:09.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:07:10.352000+08:00","text":"但預算還沒審完啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:07:10.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:07:12.353000+08:00","text":"所以你到底是為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:07:12.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:07:23.579000+08:00","text":"我們在字眼上不要用騙預算，其實我那一刻是發自內心，委員對我指教，我願意面對所有的問題，包括文策院的問題……好啦！","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:07:24.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:07:25.080000+08:00","text":"部長不要唸稿啦！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:07:25.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:07:29.943000+08:00","text":"你是一個文人，你還要看著稿唸。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:07:29.943000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:07:30.943000+08:00","text":"不是，其實我……好啦！","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:07:30.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:07:43.611000+08:00","text":"部長，我跟你講，我們質詢時間很有限，我真的沒辦法讓你長篇大論，其實我的問題大家聽得很清楚，第一個，你改口我認為有兩個問題，一個就是不可以來立法院這樣子啦！是。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:07:44.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:07:49.232000+08:00","text":"什麼叫做當下為了要過預算，所以我只好這樣講，其實我不是那個意思，原諒我說錯話？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:07:49.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:07:53.233000+08:00","text":"那你每次在這邊，我們怎麼知道面對的是哪一個，是小野，還是部長，還是李遠？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:07:53.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:07:54.773000+08:00","text":"還是你不是你的你？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:07:54.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:08:29.209000+08:00","text":"我覺得不能這樣子，大家都以誠待人，我們就找問題、解決問題，因為你是政務官，納稅人給文化部錢，希望我們把關，你如果覺得我們講得有道理，就更正、改進就好，我覺得大家不要來這邊話術來話術去，納稅人也不想看到這樣，所以我覺得你要永保初衷，你就是審預算那一天的你，TaiwanPlus就是災難，我等一下會證明給你看，「功夫」就是投資失敗，你沒有說錯話，你要有勇氣，你不要迫於壓力，該講什麼就講什麼。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:08:30.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:08:34.213000+08:00","text":"我們就直接進入TaiwanPlus，為什麼我覺得TaiwanPlus是災難？","quality":0.639},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:08:34.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:08:51.044000+08:00","text":"我看到你們那個報告我都覺得好笑，第一個，TaiwanPlus現在已經拿了大概98億，快100億了，100億其實是一個非常大數字，一年10億，這是很大的一筆錢，但是它到底達到什麼效果呢？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:08:52.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:09:04.374000+08:00","text":"根據你們的報告指出，TaiwanPlus是要即時且深度的傳達臺灣觀點跟故事，所以應該要用臺灣的觀點跟全世界講，臺灣人是怎麼看待這件事情。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:09:05.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:09:18.730000+08:00","text":"結果你們的做法完全是背道而馳，第一個，你們在報告裡面也有提到一個節目叫Taiwan Talks，我覺得Taiwan Talks超奇怪的：第一個，它的主持人是外國人，我是不太懂啦！","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:09:19.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:09:26.393000+08:00","text":"為什麼我們要向全世界傳達臺灣的聲音，結果要找一個外國人來臺灣傳達臺灣的聲音？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:09:26.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:09:34.297000+08:00","text":"臺灣人沒有一個人可以傳達臺灣的聲音，要外國人來傳達臺灣的聲音，而且這個外國人有什麼特別的代表性嗎？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:09:35.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:09:49.005000+08:00","text":"第二個，這個節目每次找兩個來賓，兩個來賓裡面常常也有一個是外國人，甚至兩個都是外國人，如果有時候有臺灣人，那個臺灣人就能夠傳達臺灣的聲音嗎？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:09:49.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:09:49.866000+08:00","text":"他也有他的立場啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:09:50.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:10:01.353000+08:00","text":"我還有看過那個臺灣人是民進黨的政治人物，結果你在你的報告裡面還把Taiwan Talks當作一個很重要的宣傳，說Taiwan Talks很棒，到底是為什麼啊？","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:10:02.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:10:04.215000+08:00","text":"為什麼一定要找外國人來傳達臺灣的聲音？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:10:09.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:10:14.393000+08:00","text":"部長，TaiwanPlus的問題如果你還講不出來的話，我是覺得很失職了啦！","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:10:14.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:10:26.598000+08:00","text":"因為今天的重點就是要講TaiwanPlus，你應該在今天來之前就要針對這個問題好好跟TaiwanPlus討論，請問為什麼一定要找外國人來講臺灣的聲音？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:10:26.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:10:30.300000+08:00","text":"其實我一開始就講了很多關於這個問題……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:10:30.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:10:31.160000+08:00","text":"針對問題回答啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:10:31.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:10:33.261000+08:00","text":"因為我後面的問題很多，這樣子我講不完。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:10:34.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:10:37.383000+08:00","text":"為什麼要找外國人來傳達臺灣的聲音？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:10:37.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:10:40.846000+08:00","text":"為什麼要找外國人傳達臺灣的聲音？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:10:41.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:10:57.498000+08:00","text":"這個問題在我們一開始定位這個頻道的時候，大量招募國外記者的原因是我們需要一個國際頻道，他英文的發音等各種條件都很高，但是我們到目前為止，慢慢由自己本國的……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:10:58.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:10:58.859000+08:00","text":"部長，好，謝謝，我後面的題目很多。","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:10:59.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:11:02.583000+08:00","text":"所以你的選擇條件就是因為要英文嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:11:02.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:11:10.089000+08:00","text":"英文只是語言、只是工具，重點是內容跟觀點，我覺得你找外國人來講這個事情就是莫名其妙。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:11:10.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:11:15.634000+08:00","text":"第二個，TaiwanPlus除了Taiwan Talks之外，還有另外一個節目叫CONNECTED，對吧？","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:11:17.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:11:28.379000+08:00","text":"妙了，這個節目也是外國人當主持人，所有TaiwanPlus的節目通通都是外國人當主持人，然後來賓也是一堆外國人，臺灣沒人才了嗎？","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:11:28.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:11:35.124000+08:00","text":"部長，就像你也是一個很好的人才，你也常常可以忠實傳達臺灣的聲音，為什麼要找外國人來呢？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:11:36.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:11:45.072000+08:00","text":"而且以前我們也有發現，很多外國人來之後水土不服又離開，離開之後還在臉書發表長篇大論，把TaiwanPlus罵一頓，你真的覺得這是一個好的做法嗎？","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:11:46.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:11:47.421000+08:00","text":"當然不是好做法。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:11:47.421000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:11:48.421000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:11:47.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:11:56.926000+08:00","text":"所以為什麼我會說我們要從開始到現在不斷調整我們的記者，不斷調整我們的結構，不斷調整我們的節目……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:11:57.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:11:57.286000+08:00","text":"不是啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:11:57.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:12:01.328000+08:00","text":"部長，一個媒體剛出來的時候，當然它有適應期嘛！對。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:12:01.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:12:13.797000+08:00","text":"但是從TaiwanPlus創臺到現在已經很多年了，我現在講的是正在發生的事情，你如果告訴我說，過了那麼多年你還在調整，那代表這個媒體沒有效果嘛！","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:12:14.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:12:22.742000+08:00","text":"那我們是不是還要每年燒10億、再燒100億、再燒200億去做這一件達不到你原本初始效果的事情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:12:23.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:12:26.165000+08:00","text":"這是我覺得你要去考慮的，是不是災難我們等一下再來講。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:12:26.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:12:40.838000+08:00","text":"再來，在你們報告裡面有提到，我都是引用你們的報告，Taiwan Talks這個節目主要觀眾來源是印度、菲律賓及美國，我想請問一下，菲律賓占多少百分比？","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:12:40.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:12:50.332000+08:00","text":"因為寫得很籠統，有沒有占到一半？12%。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:12:52.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:12:53.474000+08:00","text":"菲律賓12%，印度呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:12:57.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:12:57.535000+08:00","text":"少於12%。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:12:57.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:12:59.556000+08:00","text":"然後其他全部都是美國嗎？44%。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:12:59.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:13:00.757000+08:00","text":"美國44%，其他呢？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:13:06.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:13:07.847000+08:00","text":"你這個數據我也不知道是真的還假的。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:13:09.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:13:10.468000+08:00","text":"部長，我為什麼這樣子講呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:13:11.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:13:22.733000+08:00","text":"當初說TaiwanPlus的目的是要跟全世界傳達臺灣的聲音，結果你的主要觀眾來源是印度、菲律賓，而且我特別去看了一下，為什麼是菲律賓？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:13:22.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:13:32.558000+08:00","text":"因為你的節目裡面常常在講菲律賓，我是不知道為什麼菲律賓這個國家對於TaiwanPlus來說這麼重要，你現在是要統戰菲律賓還是怎麼樣？","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:13:34.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:13:37.649000+08:00","text":"全世界這麼多個國家，為什麼你不是針對宏都拉斯？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:13:38.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:13:46.699000+08:00","text":"你們不是常常在講宏都拉斯現在跟臺灣斷交以後白蝦都賣不出去，然後外交部要去努力把宏都拉斯建交回來，那為什麼不是針對宏都拉斯？","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:13:47.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:13:47.780000+08:00","text":"為什麼不是澳洲？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:13:48.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:13:50.023000+08:00","text":"為什麼不是日本？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:13:50.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:13:52.786000+08:00","text":"現在不是要發展臺歐關係嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:13:52.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:13:53.607000+08:00","text":"為什麼是菲律賓？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:13:55.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:13:57.412000+08:00","text":"菲律賓有對我們特別好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:13:57.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:04.396000+08:00","text":"之前南海仲裁十週年，菲律賓針對太平島的主權還跟我們有爭議，現在是要放棄太平島主權嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:04.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:06.558000+08:00","text":"為什麼是菲律賓？部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:06.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:07.718000+08:00","text":"我可以回答嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:07.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:08.339000+08:00","text":"當然可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:08.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:11.841000+08:00","text":"因為這個節目本身談的是地緣政治……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:13.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:15.063000+08:00","text":"地緣政治只有菲律賓喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:16.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:18.004000+08:00","text":"日本不重要、韓國不重要？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:18.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:21.206000+08:00","text":"但是我們這個節目受到菲律賓的重視。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:21.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:21.286000+08:00","text":"對，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:22.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:24.509000+08:00","text":"為什麼我們target是菲律賓？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:24.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:26.230000+08:00","text":"我們不是target是菲律賓。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:26.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:28.832000+08:00","text":"不是，你的結果就是菲律賓嘛！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:29.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:32.195000+08:00","text":"部長，不要再拗了，我覺得大家都有公評。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:32.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:43.644000+08:00","text":"你說地緣政治，地緣政治有這麼多國家，你只重菲律賓，這到底是因為這個節目製作單位選才的問題，還是特定幾個人的主要觀點問題？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:46.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:14:49.809000+08:00","text":"這個你要去了解，這很奇怪，這也是非常奇怪的一件事情。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:14:49.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:15:00.513000+08:00","text":"再來我們繼續看，我看你們的報告說TaiwanPlus很有成果，因為很多國外媒體都引用我們的新聞，像颱風也引用我們的畫面。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:15:00.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:15:01.053000+08:00","text":"不是啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:15:02.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:15:03.414000+08:00","text":"TaiwanPlus存在的目的是這個嗎？","quality":0.421},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:15:03.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:15:07.656000+08:00","text":"我跟你講有一個媒體在這一塊做得比TaiwanPlus還要好，你知道是什麼媒體嗎？","quality":0.553},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:15:07.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:15:12.343000+08:00","text":"跟你也有關係，是中央社，中央社就是在做這個的嘛！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:15:13.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:15:24.593000+08:00","text":"中央社所有的媒體，它也負責海外宣傳，它跟美聯社等各國家的通訊社統統都有合作，在海外也有據點。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:15:25.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:15:31.919000+08:00","text":"現在所謂的TaiwanPlus，你引以為傲地說有一些國外媒體引用我們的畫面，這個部分中央社統統都做得到啊！","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:15:32.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:15:33.681000+08:00","text":"那你何必疊床架屋？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:15:33.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:15:49.192000+08:00","text":"再來，你們講到TaiwanPlus是一個電視臺，所以臺灣也看得到，好像在無線第七頻道，然後在有線電視臺、MOD也都有，海外也有對不對？","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:15:49.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:15:57.673000+08:00","text":"海外部分，說現在要在英國、愛爾蘭、馬來西亞、印度、帛琉落地，甚至我看新聞說新加坡也有，請問一下收視率多少？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:15:58.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:15:58.474000+08:00","text":"有統計過海外的收視率嗎？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:15:58.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:15:58.854000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:16:08.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:16:10.076000+08:00","text":"海外都是以OTT點擊為主。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:16:10.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:16:11.697000+08:00","text":"不是，是收視率啦！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:16:11.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:16:13.159000+08:00","text":"什麼OTT點擊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:16:13.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:16:14.320000+08:00","text":"我講的是你有落地嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:16:14.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:16:17.744000+08:00","text":"打開電視都看得到，你跟我講OTT點擊，我問的是收視率。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:16:19.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:16:25.772000+08:00","text":"電視臺是收視率，如果社群媒體是點擊，我現在問的是收視率，社群我等一下會問，收視率多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:16:26.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:16:33.517000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，像印度JioTV就是OTT平臺，馬來西亞Mana-Mana也都是OTT平臺。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:16:33.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:16:34.497000+08:00","text":"都是OTT平臺？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:16:35.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:16:39.060000+08:00","text":"那臺灣的收視率多少？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:16:41.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:16:42.622000+08:00","text":"我們臺灣沒有訂購收視率。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:16:43.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:16:52.768000+08:00","text":"沒有訂購收視率，所以你們有電視臺，但你們連收視率都不在乎，所以你們是一個沒有KPI的媒體嘛！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:16:54.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:16:59.416000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們是公共媒體，我們是以社群媒體為主，所以……","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:16:59.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:05.082000+08:00","text":"你是一個沒有……你的重點在哪裡，收視率也是一個很重要的參考指標嘛！","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:05.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:08.045000+08:00","text":"因為整個國際的觀看習慣改變……","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:08.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:18.453000+08:00","text":"部長，你看一個電視臺連收視率都不在乎，連訂閱報告都沒有訂閱，海外也都沒有，然後說有一些是OTT平臺，他是看點閱。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:18.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:21.994000+08:00","text":"沒關係，收視率你講不出來，那我們來看點閱率。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:22.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:23.375000+08:00","text":"這個是你們統計的嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:24.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:26.956000+08:00","text":"4.7億次，這是全部平臺相加，對吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:27.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:29.357000+08:00","text":"這是你們的報告，沒有錯吧？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:30.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:31.257000+08:00","text":"4億很多嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:31.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:33.738000+08:00","text":"我們現在已經到4.8億了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:33.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:34.198000+08:00","text":"一樣嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:34.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:37.339000+08:00","text":"這個是你給我的報告，那你為什麼不寫4.8億，你為什麼要寫4.7億？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:37.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:46.370000+08:00","text":"為什麼今天報告你還要給錯的資料，然後口頭再更正，為什麼？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:46.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:47.891000+08:00","text":"我們是逐步成長，因為它的……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:47.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:49.912000+08:00","text":"你一天成長1,000萬喔！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:50.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:51.534000+08:00","text":"不要在這邊耍嘴皮子了。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:52.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:53.795000+08:00","text":"部長，你可以回來嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:53.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:17:56.637000+08:00","text":"我今天是質詢李遠部長，不是這位好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:17:58.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:18:04.483000+08:00","text":"這個問題跟你講，你要去盯，一個沒有KPI的公共媒體，4.7億很多嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:18:04.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:18:05.584000+08:00","text":"全部加起來很多嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:18:05.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:18:14.748000+08:00","text":"你知道我昨天問一個網紅叫cheap，他說他的點閱率剛破4億，所以真的沒有很多啦！","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:18:15.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:18:23.333000+08:00","text":"而且你這個很多都是短影音去刷的，你是想要深度報導，但你很多是短影音去刷的，真的沒有很多啦！","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:18:23.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:18:25.474000+08:00","text":"所以收視率沒有統計，流量也沒有很高。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:18:25.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:18:26.335000+08:00","text":"我們再來看，你現在預算非常多，其實你們有很多是委製，對吧？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:18:26.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:18:26.575000+08:00","text":"都是委外的吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:18:26.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:18:56.192000+08:00","text":"我隨便看了一個節目，我聽說一集的委製預算是60萬，我不知道是真的還是假的，一集、一個單元的訪談節目委製預算是60萬，有沒有這個狀況？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:18:56.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:18:58.392000+08:00","text":"報告委員，可能要給我們節目名稱。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:18:58.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:07.775000+08:00","text":"比如說，好像有一個最近訪問王文洋還是誰的節目，主持人……有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:07.775000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:10.075000+08:00","text":"我們沒有訪問王文洋的節目。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:10.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:11.896000+08:00","text":"你們委製節目最高的預算是多少？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:13.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:18.455000+08:00","text":"一個談話節目的委製預算，是委外，不是用你們既有的設備那些喔！","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:19.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:23.519000+08:00","text":"是委託外面的製作單位製作的，預算最高多少？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:23.519000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:24.913333+08:00","text":"以談話節目Taiwan Talks或CONNECTED來說，平均預算大概是10到11萬。","quality":0.216},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:24.913333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:26.307667+08:00","text":"一集嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:26.307667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:27.702000+08:00","text":"對，一集。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:27.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:28.343000+08:00","text":"那其他的呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:28.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:30.344000+08:00","text":"比如說聶雲的節目，一集委外多少？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:31.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:34.227000+08:00","text":"這主要是看內容，所以我要回去了解……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:34.227000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:35.227000+08:00","text":"最高多少嘛？","quality":0},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:34.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:35.608000+08:00","text":"這我要回去了解，再給委員資料報告。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:37.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:37.490000+08:00","text":"你都不知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:37.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:38.050000+08:00","text":"有沒有一集60萬的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:38.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:38.251000+08:00","text":"不會到60萬。確定？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:38.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:39.892000+08:00","text":"如果有怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:43.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:44.007000+08:00","text":"所以我回去再詳細了解，再跟委員報告。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:44.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:45.308000+08:00","text":"所以你都不知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:46.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:52.630000+08:00","text":"你都不知道、不曉得你們有委製，那效益是什麼？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:52.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:53.890000+08:00","text":"它的點擊還有……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:54.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:55.050000+08:00","text":"點擊也不高啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:55.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:55.951000+08:00","text":"我看也不高啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:56.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:19:58.091000+08:00","text":"點擊相當不錯……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:19:58.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:20:01.312000+08:00","text":"點擊並沒有不錯，並沒有不錯！","quality":1},{"speaker":"何執行長國華","start":"2026-07-16T10:20:05.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:20:07.474000+08:00","text":"我們有幾個節目，包括剛剛委員有提到……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:20:07.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:20:08.154000+08:00","text":"不是啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:20:08.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:20:10.394000+08:00","text":"好啦，部長，請到質詢臺。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:20:12.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:20:18.679000+08:00","text":"我剛剛講了這麼多，你一年花10億下去，你當然可以說，哎唷！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:20:18.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:20:30.971000+08:00","text":"我有一個節目很不錯，國外有一個媒體用了我的畫面，可以挑一些零星的效果放在你的報告裡面，包裝成好像效果很好，但這個媒體我們已經幾年花了快100億耶！","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:20:31.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:20:33.813000+08:00","text":"快100億是這樣的效果，部長，你滿意嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:20:35.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:20:38.296000+08:00","text":"你如果再花100億，它可以達到什麼效果？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:20:39.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:00.123000+08:00","text":"還是一樣，主要的對象都是菲律賓，題材也都是菲律賓，然後流量還是一樣，跟臺灣的一個國內網紅差不多，然後委製的預算這麼高，找了一堆外國人來講臺灣的觀點，這個媒體到底定位是什麼、效果是什麼、KPI是什麼？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:01.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:04.269000+08:00","text":"你在管理一個媒體的時候，都沒有去想過這些問題嗎？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:04.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:04.369000+08:00","text":"這都是納稅人的錢耶！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:04.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:06.190000+08:00","text":"然後今天部長你都已經知道我們要討論TaiwanPlus，結果問你問題，我問的問題都是很大項的問題，我不是問你很細的問題，結果都要旁邊的一直遞紙條，一直在那邊……","quality":0.753},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:06.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:07.171000+08:00","text":"不是，那你讓我回答嘛，你都沒有機會給我講話。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:20.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:21.738000+08:00","text":"好，那你要針對問題回答。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:22.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:25.201000+08:00","text":"譬如說你剛才講100億，那就不是這個數字啊！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:25.201000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:26.201000+08:00","text":"那多少？","quality":0},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:26.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:27.083000+08:00","text":"5年32億啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:29.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:33.889000+08:00","text":"絕對沒有一年到10億，所以你沒有機會給我講，你一口氣……","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:34.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:34.990000+08:00","text":"還是很多啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:35.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:35.311000+08:00","text":"不是啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:35.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:37.293000+08:00","text":"還是很多啊！100億跟……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:38.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:39.815000+08:00","text":"還是很多啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:39.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:52.126000+08:00","text":"就像剛才講到外國記者，我們就是因為一開始是外國記者，做了幾年之後慢慢調整到本國記者72%、外國記者28%……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:52.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:54.708000+08:00","text":"我剛剛講的是節目主持人，我講的是節目。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:21:56.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:21:59.511000+08:00","text":"部長，我不是不給你時間回答，而是每次給你時間回答，你都沒有針對我的問題回答。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:22:00.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:22:09.817000+08:00","text":"我剛剛舉的都是節目，你們的旗艦節目，你放在報告裡面宣傳節目都是外國的主持人、外國的來賓在講臺灣的觀點，很怪嘛！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:22:10.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:22:15.142000+08:00","text":"是，可是因為你剛才有些問題，譬如說一集60萬，我還真的不會答，不是我不答。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:22:16.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:22:17.944000+08:00","text":"那你了解一下，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:22:18.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:22:20.367000+08:00","text":"這個就是預算亂用嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:22:21.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:22:28.254000+08:00","text":"沒有KPI、沒有目標，反正要到了錢隨便花，有執行率就好！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:22:28.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:22:29.575000+08:00","text":"再來，有人在管嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:22:29.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:22:29.655000+08:00","text":"總編輯回來了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:22:33.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:22:35.765000+08:00","text":"遠距工作3個月，回來了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:22:35.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:22:36.045000+08:00","text":"回來了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:22:36.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:22:37.948000+08:00","text":"禮拜二回來的嘛，對不對？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:22:38.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:22:47.682000+08:00","text":"上次說7月10日，結果禮拜二才回來，為什麼一個總編輯可以遠距工作3個月，部長，你可以到美國遠距工作3個月領導文化部嗎？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:22:49.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:22:51.176000+08:00","text":"你會做這個事嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:22:51.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:08.343000+08:00","text":"這個總編輯是去年就來了，當時就有想好他有3個月在美國工作，至於在美國工作他到底做了什麼，其實我們報告上寫得非常清楚，他人在美國照樣進行，但是因為人在美國，他也進行了好幾個合作計畫，就是說他不是一個單一的……","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:08.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:18.832000+08:00","text":"部長，一個媒體機構有分工，如果有需要美國計畫，你就派另外的人去美國計畫，總編輯是領導所有媒體的人，他可以不在臺灣嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:18.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:20.213000+08:00","text":"他是副執行長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:20.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:21.754000+08:00","text":"他可以不在臺灣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:21.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:24.416000+08:00","text":"然後還有時差，他負責所有的編輯耶！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:25.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:26.058000+08:00","text":"他是副執行長。對啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:27.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:33.967000+08:00","text":"所以只要他有任務在美國，他就可以在美國，然後可以遠距工作3個月，大家聽得下去嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:33.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:35.288000+08:00","text":"任何一個媒體可以這樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:35.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:37.051000+08:00","text":"哪個媒體沒有海外的合作項目？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:37.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:42.658000+08:00","text":"所以只要有海外合作項目，他就可以去海外3個月，可以這樣子喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:42.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:45.601000+08:00","text":"那你文化部也有海外合作項目，那部長也去3個月啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:47.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:48.252000+08:00","text":"不合理嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:48.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:49.532000+08:00","text":"就不合理嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:50.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:51.193000+08:00","text":"這件事情是誰批准的？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:52.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:23:54.174000+08:00","text":"TaiwanPlus有沒有人在管理嘛？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:23:54.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:24:07.897000+08:00","text":"其實我跟你講，我不是一直要推託責任，是因為TaiwanPlus是屬於公共廣播集團，有非常多事情，包括人的任命、做什麼，我都不能干預他，你是不是讓我請執行長來講？","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:24:10.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:24:20.444000+08:00","text":"你都不能干預他，然後你又來備詢，然後他又做得很莫名其妙，然後執行長也是一問三不知，問他一集委製費有沒有60萬？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:24:20.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:24:25.467000+08:00","text":"他說不知道，我要回去查一下，然後委員沒有什麼之類的，我們講什麼他都這樣，反正他也不會來了啊！","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T10:24:26.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:24:27.128000+08:00","text":"好，時間到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:24:27.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:24:29.489000+08:00","text":"不是，這樣是什麼態度嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:24:30.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:24:31.651000+08:00","text":"是不是災難嘛，部長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:24:33.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:24:34.790000+08:00","text":"是不是災難？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:24:34.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:24:35.411000+08:00","text":"其實我現在……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:24:37.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:24:42.994000+08:00","text":"你說是災難，我們才能夠讓災難平息，如果你認為不是災難，不好意思！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:24:43.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:24:46.936000+08:00","text":"可能幾年之後，我們還在講一樣問題，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:24:46.936000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:24:47.936000+08:00","text":"我希望能夠……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:24:47.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:24:49.757000+08:00","text":"不然我來看到時候統戰菲律賓有沒有成功嘛！","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:24:50.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:24:57.102000+08:00","text":"我希望能夠因為這樣的事情，我們重新檢討，勇敢面對問題，其實我們真的有做了滿多改變。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:24:58.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:25:05.402000+08:00","text":"我講的都是現在的事，我沒有講幾年前的事，我講的都是現在發生的事，你改變之後還是這樣啊！","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:25:07.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:25:25.173000+08:00","text":"有時候因為我講的話前因後果被拿掉之後，剩下單獨一句話，其實我本來認為自己是一個非常會表達的人，我也以為自己很會溝通，可是我今天站在這個臺上，其實我嘴巴張開我不太會講話。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:25:25.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:25:25.433000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:25:25.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:25:35.362000+08:00","text":"因為我每次講了很完整的一大段以後，總是會被拿出一句來，所以變成我不太會解釋，而且……","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:25:35.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:25:37.704000+08:00","text":"沒有啦，部長，我跟你講，因為你現在有包袱。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:25:38.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:25:38.585000+08:00","text":"不是包袱。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:25:38.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:25:41.188000+08:00","text":"所以你怕說真話又不小心被人家……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:25:41.188000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:25:42.188000+08:00","text":"不是，絕對不是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:25:41.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:25:44.211000+08:00","text":"包袱太重，我體諒你啦！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:25:44.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:25:49.996000+08:00","text":"你們一直問我以前小野、現在李遠，我可以告訴你我是同一個人，我是同一個人嘛！","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:25:50.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:25:51.257000+08:00","text":"你不要哽咽。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:25:51.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:25:57.278000+08:00","text":"我沒有哽咽，我聲音破了，我沒有哽咽，我沒那麼容易哽咽。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T10:25:57.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:25:57.558000+08:00","text":"時間到了。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:25:58.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:26:03.940000+08:00","text":"再1分鐘就好，這個我覺得是災難，你沒講錯，不要改口。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:26:05.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:26:27.972000+08:00","text":"我想問另外一個議題，關於「功夫」電影補助的問題，我很快提一下，這個就給你建議，我認為電影輔導金當初成立有它的目的，後來文策院成立也有它的目的，但是文策院成立之後，電影輔導金的目的並沒有改變，所以就變成疊床架屋。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:26:28.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:26:48.070000+08:00","text":"我們就舉「功夫」這個例子為例，文策院的重點是認為九把刀是一個好導演，依過去的實績，所以投資1億給他，希望能夠回收，1億的目的是點火，希望他可以利用這1億去引進民間資金，讓他有足夠的資金拍片，輔導金為什麼還要做一樣的事情呢？","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:26:48.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:27:04.194000+08:00","text":"輔導金當初就是要輔導那些不容易找到民間資金的導演，為什麼後來成立了國發基金在文策院之後，輔導金也沒有改變呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:27:04.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:27:22.291000+08:00","text":"疊床架屋變成磁吸效應，像九把刀這種兩邊拿，拿很多，有一些可能真的需要輔導金幫忙的、過去名氣沒有那麼高的就沒有辦法達到引進民間資金的效果。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:27:25.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:27:37.566000+08:00","text":"主席已經站很久了，請你們去檢討一下，在文策院、國發基金的投資出來之後，輔導金的補助辦法要不要做調整，可以嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:27:37.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:27:38.887000+08:00","text":"因為這會有排擠效果。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:27:39.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:27:40.528000+08:00","text":"我可不可以講一句話？可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:27:41.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:27:44.131000+08:00","text":"事實上，輔導金裡面有一個新人組是專門針對沒有拍過電影的導演，有50%拿到錢。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:27:44.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:27:44.451000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:27:44.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:27:51.857000+08:00","text":"全世界只有臺灣做得到，所以它沒有排擠。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:27:52.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:28:06.268000+08:00","text":"有排擠，因為它的總額是3億，其中有4個項目，包括新人組、動畫組等，我都知道，我們以結果來講，我認為輔導金就不需要補助九把刀，為什麼要補助他？","quality":0.712},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:28:07.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:28:12.315000+08:00","text":"國發基金已經補助1億，為了輔導金還要給他3,500萬，為什麼？","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:28:12.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:28:15.737000+08:00","text":"他拿的好像是下一部電影的錢，因為他曾經得過獎。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:28:16.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:28:26.443000+08:00","text":"「功夫」這部電影就拿了1億5,000萬，1億是國發基金、3,500萬是國片輔導金，國發基金已經給他1億，為什麼國片輔導金還要給他3,500萬，為什麼？","quality":0.827},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:28:26.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:28:37.329000+08:00","text":"所以上一次我有特別講到，我們重新針對輔導金和投資這兩項，我們最近也有開過會，跟委員報告……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:28:37.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:28:39.511000+08:00","text":"你要調整，你也覺得有問題，對不對？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:28:41.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:29:08.655000+08:00","text":"所以「功夫」令人傻眼，沒關係，你再把最後的制度再給我們，為什麼召委今天會排這個報告，你看他的題目也很有藝術，以災難說來看文化部，因為以災難說是對的，希望你不要改口，你不要今天來這邊一副就是委員講的都對，我們要調整，回去隔兩天之後又講，我那天就是因為他一直這樣講，我沒辦法就應付他，不然我下不去之類的，我希望不要看到你再講這樣的話，好不好？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"李部長遠","start":"2026-07-16T10:29:08.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:29:10.215000+08:00","text":"好，沒問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T10:29:10.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:29:12.156000+08:00","text":"心口合一，謝謝部長。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T10:29:12.656000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:29:14.941714+08:00","text":"謝謝，我們休息5分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T10:29:15.241714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:29:16.384571+08:00","text":"休息（10時29分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T10:29:16.684571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:29:18.398857+08:00","text":"繼續開會（10時34分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T10:29:18.698857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:29:19.841714+08:00","text":"現在開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T10:29:20.141714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:29:22.427429+08:00","text":"下一位郭昱晴委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":313,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（10時4分）主席好，麻煩請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["李部長遠：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：部長好。上一次我們在這邊審預算的時候，我就覺得部長真的有知識份子的風骨，面對大家質疑TaiwanPlus跟「功夫」的投資失敗，你當下立刻就承認錯誤，說TaiwanPlus是個災難，功夫令人傻眼。但我沒有想到兩天後部長出席活動的時候感覺又變了一個人，說我是說錯話啦！我那天是為了要得到預算，為了得到預算我什麼話都講得出來，我是說錯話，請原諒我說錯話。","第一個，部長，你來立法院，我不知道現在你是什麼心情，是不是也是想說混過這個質詢時間，隨便講講，反正明天又是一尾活龍，我不知道，因為那天審預算你就是這樣嘛！第二個，我覺得很奇怪，因為你說你是為了得到預算，所以才故意這樣迎合立法委員，可能那天羅智強比較兇，你要讓他軟化，所以你就故意軟化，所以他也真的軟化了，你真的騙到他了。但如果你的目的是為了預算，預算還沒審完，現在還有第二輪，所以你忽然間改口，那不是讓大家覺得，原來你這種人，那第二輪我要嚴審。這樣你達不到你要騙預算的目的，所以我懷疑啦！你是不是因為那一天太誠實了，導致你被九把刀的某某朋友罵，還是被TaiwanPlus的某某支持者罵，所以逼迫你必須要改口？是什麼原因啊？"],["李部長遠：沒有人逼迫我，我在這兩天、在不同的狀況講的每一句話都是因為我今天在跟大家報告，文策院也好，TaiwanPlus也好，它成立的時間很短……"],["葉委員元之：部長，我的質詢時間很有限，就針對問題回答。我好奇的是，如果你當下是為了要過預算，所以你才這樣講，然後隔兩天你就覺得你不是那個意思，你只是為了預算。但預算還沒審完啊！所以你到底是為什麼？"],["李部長遠：我們在字眼上不要用騙預算，其實我那一刻是發自內心，委員對我指教，我願意面對所有的問題，包括文策院的問題……"],["葉委員元之：好啦！部長不要唸稿啦！你是一個文人，你還要看著稿唸。"],["李部長遠：不是，其實我……"],["葉委員元之：好啦！部長，我跟你講，我們質詢時間很有限，我真的沒辦法讓你長篇大論，其實我的問題大家聽得很清楚，第一個，你改口我認為有兩個問題，一個就是不可以來立法院這樣子啦！"],["李部長遠：是。"],["葉委員元之：什麼叫做當下為了要過預算，所以我只好這樣講，其實我不是那個意思，原諒我說錯話？那你每次在這邊，我們怎麼知道面對的是哪一個，是小野，還是部長，還是李遠？還是你不是你的你？我覺得不能這樣子，大家都以誠待人，我們就找問題、解決問題，因為你是政務官，納稅人給文化部錢，希望我們把關，你如果覺得我們講得有道理，就更正、改進就好，我覺得大家不要來這邊話術來話術去，納稅人也不想看到這樣，所以我覺得你要永保初衷，你就是審預算那一天的你，TaiwanPlus就是災難，我等一下會證明給你看，「功夫」就是投資失敗，你沒有說錯話，你要有勇氣，你不要迫於壓力，該講什麼就講什麼。","我們就直接進入TaiwanPlus，為什麼我覺得TaiwanPlus是災難？我看到你們那個報告我都覺得好笑，第一個，TaiwanPlus現在已經拿了大概98億，快100億了，100億其實是一個非常大數字，一年10億，這是很大的一筆錢，但是它到底達到什麼效果呢？根據你們的報告指出，TaiwanPlus是要即時且深度的傳達臺灣觀點跟故事，所以應該要用臺灣的觀點跟全世界講，臺灣人是怎麼看待這件事情。結果你們的做法完全是背道而馳，第一個，你們在報告裡面也有提到一個節目叫Taiwan Talks，我覺得Taiwan Talks超奇怪的：第一個，它的主持人是外國人，我是不太懂啦！為什麼我們要向全世界傳達臺灣的聲音，結果要找一個外國人來臺灣傳達臺灣的聲音？臺灣人沒有一個人可以傳達臺灣的聲音，要外國人來傳達臺灣的聲音，而且這個外國人有什麼特別的代表性嗎？第二個，這個節目每次找兩個來賓，兩個來賓裡面常常也有一個是外國人，甚至兩個都是外國人，如果有時候有臺灣人，那個臺灣人就能夠傳達臺灣的聲音嗎？他也有他的立場啊！我還有看過那個臺灣人是民進黨的政治人物，結果你在你的報告裡面還把Taiwan Talks當作一個很重要的宣傳，說Taiwan Talks很棒，到底是為什麼啊？為什麼一定要找外國人來傳達臺灣的聲音？","部長，TaiwanPlus的問題如果你還講不出來的話，我是覺得很失職了啦！因為今天的重點就是要講TaiwanPlus，你應該在今天來之前就要針對這個問題好好跟TaiwanPlus討論，請問為什麼一定要找外國人來講臺灣的聲音？"],["李部長遠：其實我一開始就講了很多關於這個問題……"],["葉委員元之：針對問題回答啦！因為我後面的問題很多，這樣子我講不完。為什麼要找外國人來傳達臺灣的聲音？"],["李部長遠：為什麼要找外國人傳達臺灣的聲音？這個問題在我們一開始定位這個頻道的時候，大量招募國外記者的原因是我們需要一個國際頻道，他英文的發音等各種條件都很高，但是我們到目前為止，慢慢由自己本國的……"],["葉委員元之：部長，好，謝謝，我後面的題目很多。所以你的選擇條件就是因為要英文嘛！英文只是語言、只是工具，重點是內容跟觀點，我覺得你找外國人來講這個事情就是莫名其妙。第二個，TaiwanPlus除了Taiwan Talks之外，還有另外一個節目叫CONNECTED，對吧？妙了，這個節目也是外國人當主持人，所有TaiwanPlus的節目通通都是外國人當主持人，然後來賓也是一堆外國人，臺灣沒人才了嗎？部長，就像你也是一個很好的人才，你也常常可以忠實傳達臺灣的聲音，為什麼要找外國人來呢？而且以前我們也有發現，很多外國人來之後水土不服又離開，離開之後還在臉書發表長篇大論，把TaiwanPlus罵一頓，你真的覺得這是一個好的做法嗎？"],["李部長遠：當然不是好做法。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["李部長遠：所以為什麼我會說我們要從開始到現在不斷調整我們的記者，不斷調整我們的結構，不斷調整我們的節目……"],["葉委員元之：不是啦！部長，一個媒體剛出來的時候，當然它有適應期嘛！"],["李部長遠：對。"],["葉委員元之：但是從TaiwanPlus創臺到現在已經很多年了，我現在講的是正在發生的事情，你如果告訴我說，過了那麼多年你還在調整，那代表這個媒體沒有效果嘛！那我們是不是還要每年燒10億、再燒100億、再燒200億去做這一件達不到你原本初始效果的事情？這是我覺得你要去考慮的，是不是災難我們等一下再來講。","再來，在你們報告裡面有提到，我都是引用你們的報告，Taiwan Talks這個節目主要觀眾來源是印度、菲律賓及美國，我想請問一下，菲律賓占多少百分比？因為寫得很籠統，有沒有占到一半？"],["李部長遠：12%。"],["葉委員元之：菲律賓12%，印度呢？"],["李部長遠：少於12%。"],["葉委員元之：然後其他全部都是美國嗎？"],["李部長遠：44%。"],["葉委員元之：美國44%，其他呢？你這個數據我也不知道是真的還假的。部長，我為什麼這樣子講呢？當初說TaiwanPlus的目的是要跟全世界傳達臺灣的聲音，結果你的主要觀眾來源是印度、菲律賓，而且我特別去看了一下，為什麼是菲律賓？因為你的節目裡面常常在講菲律賓，我是不知道為什麼菲律賓這個國家對於TaiwanPlus來說這麼重要，你現在是要統戰菲律賓還是怎麼樣？全世界這麼多個國家，為什麼你不是針對宏都拉斯？你們不是常常在講宏都拉斯現在跟臺灣斷交以後白蝦都賣不出去，然後外交部要去努力把宏都拉斯建交回來，那為什麼不是針對宏都拉斯？為什麼不是澳洲？為什麼不是日本？現在不是要發展臺歐關係嗎？為什麼是菲律賓？菲律賓有對我們特別好嗎？之前南海仲裁十週年，菲律賓針對太平島的主權還跟我們有爭議，現在是要放棄太平島主權嗎？為什麼是菲律賓？部長。"],["李部長遠：我可以回答嗎？"],["葉委員元之：當然可以。"],["李部長遠：因為這個節目本身談的是地緣政治……"],["葉委員元之：地緣政治只有菲律賓喔？日本不重要、韓國不重要？"],["李部長遠：但是我們這個節目受到菲律賓的重視。"],["葉委員元之：對，為什麼？為什麼我們target是菲律賓？"],["李部長遠：我們不是target是菲律賓。"],["葉委員元之：不是，你的結果就是菲律賓嘛！部長，不要再拗了，我覺得大家都有公評。你說地緣政治，地緣政治有這麼多國家，你只重菲律賓，這到底是因為這個節目製作單位選才的問題，還是特定幾個人的主要觀點問題？這個你要去了解，這很奇怪，這也是非常奇怪的一件事情。","再來我們繼續看，我看你們的報告說TaiwanPlus很有成果，因為很多國外媒體都引用我們的新聞，像颱風也引用我們的畫面。不是啊！TaiwanPlus存在的目的是這個嗎？我跟你講有一個媒體在這一塊做得比TaiwanPlus還要好，你知道是什麼媒體嗎？跟你也有關係，是中央社，中央社就是在做這個的嘛！中央社所有的媒體，它也負責海外宣傳，它跟美聯社等各國家的通訊社統統都有合作，在海外也有據點。現在所謂的TaiwanPlus，你引以為傲地說有一些國外媒體引用我們的畫面，這個部分中央社統統都做得到啊！那你何必疊床架屋？","再來，你們講到TaiwanPlus是一個電視臺，所以臺灣也看得到，好像在無線第七頻道，然後在有線電視臺、MOD也都有，海外也有對不對？海外部分，說現在要在英國、愛爾蘭、馬來西亞、印度、帛琉落地，甚至我看新聞說新加坡也有，請問一下收視率多少？有統計過海外的收視率嗎？有沒有？"],["何執行長國華：海外都是以OTT點擊為主。"],["葉委員元之：不是，是收視率啦！什麼OTT點擊？我講的是你有落地嗎？打開電視都看得到，你跟我講OTT點擊，我問的是收視率。電視臺是收視率，如果社群媒體是點擊，我現在問的是收視率，社群我等一下會問，收視率多少？"],["何執行長國華：跟委員報告，像印度JioTV就是OTT平臺，馬來西亞Mana-Mana也都是OTT平臺。"],["葉委員元之：都是OTT平臺？"],["何執行長國華：是。"],["葉委員元之：那臺灣的收視率多少？"],["何執行長國華：我們臺灣沒有訂購收視率。"],["葉委員元之：沒有訂購收視率，所以你們有電視臺，但你們連收視率都不在乎，所以你們是一個沒有KPI的媒體嘛！"],["何執行長國華：報告委員，我們是公共媒體，我們是以社群媒體為主，所以……"],["葉委員元之：你是一個沒有……你的重點在哪裡，收視率也是一個很重要的參考指標嘛！"],["何執行長國華：因為整個國際的觀看習慣改變……"],["葉委員元之：部長，你看一個電視臺連收視率都不在乎，連訂閱報告都沒有訂閱，海外也都沒有，然後說有一些是OTT平臺，他是看點閱。","沒關係，收視率你講不出來，那我們來看點閱率。這個是你們統計的嘛！4.7億次，這是全部平臺相加，對吧？這是你們的報告，沒有錯吧？4億很多嗎？"],["何執行長國華：我們現在已經到4.8億了。"],["葉委員元之：一樣嘛！這個是你給我的報告，那你為什麼不寫4.8億，你為什麼要寫4.7億？為什麼今天報告你還要給錯的資料，然後口頭再更正，為什麼？"],["何執行長國華：我們是逐步成長，因為它的……"],["葉委員元之：你一天成長1,000萬喔！不要在這邊耍嘴皮子了。部長，你可以回來嗎？我今天是質詢李遠部長，不是這位好不好？這個問題跟你講，你要去盯，一個沒有KPI的公共媒體，4.7億很多嗎？全部加起來很多嗎？你知道我昨天問一個網紅叫cheap，他說他的點閱率剛破4億，所以真的沒有很多啦！而且你這個很多都是短影音去刷的，你是想要深度報導，但你很多是短影音去刷的，真的沒有很多啦！所以收視率沒有統計，流量也沒有很高。","我們再來看，你現在預算非常多，其實你們有很多是委製，對吧？都是委外的吧？我隨便看了一個節目，我聽說一集的委製預算是60萬，我不知道是真的還是假的，一集、一個單元的訪談節目委製預算是60萬，有沒有這個狀況？"],["何執行長國華：報告委員，可能要給我們節目名稱。"],["葉委員元之：比如說，好像有一個最近訪問王文洋還是誰的節目，主持人……有沒有？"],["何執行長國華：我們沒有訪問王文洋的節目。"],["葉委員元之：你們委製節目最高的預算是多少？一個談話節目的委製預算，是委外，不是用你們既有的設備那些喔！是委託外面的製作單位製作的，預算最高多少？"],["何執行長國華：以談話節目Taiwan Talks或CONNECTED來說，平均預算大概是10到11萬。"],["葉委員元之：一集嗎？"],["何執行長國華：對，一集。"],["葉委員元之：那其他的呢？比如說聶雲的節目，一集委外多少？"],["何執行長國華：這主要是看內容，所以我要回去了解……"],["葉委員元之：最高多少嘛？"],["何執行長國華：這我要回去了解，再給委員資料報告。"],["葉委員元之：你都不知道？有沒有一集60萬的？"],["何執行長國華：不會到60萬。"],["葉委員元之：確定？如果有怎麼辦？"],["何執行長國華：所以我回去再詳細了解，再跟委員報告。"],["葉委員元之：所以你都不知道？你都不知道、不曉得你們有委製，那效益是什麼？"],["何執行長國華：它的點擊還有……"],["葉委員元之：點擊也不高啊！我看也不高啊！"],["何執行長國華：點擊相當不錯……"],["葉委員元之：點擊並沒有不錯，並沒有不錯！"],["何執行長國華：我們有幾個節目，包括剛剛委員有提到……"],["葉委員元之：不是啦！好啦，部長，請到質詢臺。我剛剛講了這麼多，你一年花10億下去，你當然可以說，哎唷！我有一個節目很不錯，國外有一個媒體用了我的畫面，可以挑一些零星的效果放在你的報告裡面，包裝成好像效果很好，但這個媒體我們已經幾年花了快100億耶！快100億是這樣的效果，部長，你滿意嗎？你如果再花100億，它可以達到什麼效果？還是一樣，主要的對象都是菲律賓，題材也都是菲律賓，然後流量還是一樣，跟臺灣的一個國內網紅差不多，然後委製的預算這麼高，找了一堆外國人來講臺灣的觀點，這個媒體到底定位是什麼、效果是什麼、KPI是什麼？你在管理一個媒體的時候，都沒有去想過這些問題嗎？這都是納稅人的錢耶！然後今天部長你都已經知道我們要討論TaiwanPlus，結果問你問題，我問的問題都是很大項的問題，我不是問你很細的問題，結果都要旁邊的一直遞紙條，一直在那邊……"],["李部長遠：不是，那你讓我回答嘛，你都沒有機會給我講話。"],["葉委員元之：好，那你要針對問題回答。"],["李部長遠：譬如說你剛才講100億，那就不是這個數字啊！"],["葉委員元之：那多少？"],["李部長遠：5年32億啊！絕對沒有一年到10億，所以你沒有機會給我講，你一口氣……"],["葉委員元之：還是很多啊！"],["李部長遠：不是啦！"],["葉委員元之：還是很多啊！"],["李部長遠：100億跟……"],["葉委員元之：還是很多啊！"],["李部長遠：就像剛才講到外國記者，我們就是因為一開始是外國記者，做了幾年之後慢慢調整到本國記者72%、外國記者28%……"],["葉委員元之：我剛剛講的是節目主持人，我講的是節目。部長，我不是不給你時間回答，而是每次給你時間回答，你都沒有針對我的問題回答。我剛剛舉的都是節目，你們的旗艦節目，你放在報告裡面宣傳節目都是外國的主持人、外國的來賓在講臺灣的觀點，很怪嘛！"],["李部長遠：是，可是因為你剛才有些問題，譬如說一集60萬，我還真的不會答，不是我不答。"],["葉委員元之：那你了解一下，好不好？這個就是預算亂用嘛！沒有KPI、沒有目標，反正要到了錢隨便花，有執行率就好！再來，有人在管嗎？總編輯回來了嗎？遠距工作3個月，回來了嗎？"],["李部長遠：回來了。"],["葉委員元之：禮拜二回來的嘛，對不對？"],["李部長遠：是。"],["葉委員元之：上次說7月10日，結果禮拜二才回來，為什麼一個總編輯可以遠距工作3個月，部長，你可以到美國遠距工作3個月領導文化部嗎？你會做這個事嗎？"],["李部長遠：這個總編輯是去年就來了，當時就有想好他有3個月在美國工作，至於在美國工作他到底做了什麼，其實我們報告上寫得非常清楚，他人在美國照樣進行，但是因為人在美國，他也進行了好幾個合作計畫，就是說他不是一個單一的……"],["葉委員元之：部長，一個媒體機構有分工，如果有需要美國計畫，你就派另外的人去美國計畫，總編輯是領導所有媒體的人，他可以不在臺灣嗎？"],["李部長遠：他是副執行長。"],["葉委員元之：他可以不在臺灣嗎？然後還有時差，他負責所有的編輯耶！"],["李部長遠：他是副執行長。"],["葉委員元之：對啊！所以只要他有任務在美國，他就可以在美國，然後可以遠距工作3個月，大家聽得下去嗎？任何一個媒體可以這樣嗎？哪個媒體沒有海外的合作項目？所以只要有海外合作項目，他就可以去海外3個月，可以這樣子喔！那你文化部也有海外合作項目，那部長也去3個月啊！不合理嘛！就不合理嘛！這件事情是誰批准的？TaiwanPlus有沒有人在管理嘛？"],["李部長遠：其實我跟你講，我不是一直要推託責任，是因為TaiwanPlus是屬於公共廣播集團，有非常多事情，包括人的任命、做什麼，我都不能干預他，你是不是讓我請執行長來講？"],["葉委員元之：你都不能干預他，然後你又來備詢，然後他又做得很莫名其妙，然後執行長也是一問三不知，問他一集委製費有沒有60萬？他說不知道，我要回去查一下，然後委員沒有什麼之類的，我們講什麼他都這樣，反正他也不會來了啊！"],["主席：好，時間到。"],["葉委員元之：不是，這樣是什麼態度嘛？是不是災難嘛，部長？是不是災難？"],["李部長遠：其實我現在……"],["葉委員元之：你說是災難，我們才能夠讓災難平息，如果你認為不是災難，不好意思！可能幾年之後，我們還在講一樣問題，對不對？"],["李部長遠：我希望能夠……"],["葉委員元之：不然我來看到時候統戰菲律賓有沒有成功嘛！"],["李部長遠：我希望能夠因為這樣的事情，我們重新檢討，勇敢面對問題，其實我們真的有做了滿多改變。"],["葉委員元之：我講的都是現在的事，我沒有講幾年前的事，我講的都是現在發生的事，你改變之後還是這樣啊！"],["李部長遠：有時候因為我講的話前因後果被拿掉之後，剩下單獨一句話，其實我本來認為自己是一個非常會表達的人，我也以為自己很會溝通，可是我今天站在這個臺上，其實我嘴巴張開我不太會講話。"],["葉委員元之：為什麼？"],["李部長遠：因為我每次講了很完整的一大段以後，總是會被拿出一句來，所以變成我不太會解釋，而且……"],["葉委員元之：沒有啦，部長，我跟你講，因為你現在有包袱。"],["李部長遠：不是包袱。"],["葉委員元之：所以你怕說真話又不小心被人家……"],["李部長遠：不是，絕對不是。"],["葉委員元之：包袱太重，我體諒你啦！"],["李部長遠：你們一直問我以前小野、現在李遠，我可以告訴你我是同一個人，我是同一個人嘛！"],["葉委員元之：你不要哽咽。"],["李部長遠：我沒有哽咽，我聲音破了，我沒有哽咽，我沒那麼容易哽咽。"],["主席：時間到了。"],["葉委員元之：再1分鐘就好，這個我覺得是災難，你沒講錯，不要改口。","我想問另外一個議題，關於「功夫」電影補助的問題，我很快提一下，這個就給你建議，我認為電影輔導金當初成立有它的目的，後來文策院成立也有它的目的，但是文策院成立之後，電影輔導金的目的並沒有改變，所以就變成疊床架屋。我們就舉「功夫」這個例子為例，文策院的重點是認為九把刀是一個好導演，依過去的實績，所以投資1億給他，希望能夠回收，1億的目的是點火，希望他可以利用這1億去引進民間資金，讓他有足夠的資金拍片，輔導金為什麼還要做一樣的事情呢？輔導金當初就是要輔導那些不容易找到民間資金的導演，為什麼後來成立了國發基金在文策院之後，輔導金也沒有改變呢？疊床架屋變成磁吸效應，像九把刀這種兩邊拿，拿很多，有一些可能真的需要輔導金幫忙的、過去名氣沒有那麼高的就沒有辦法達到引進民間資金的效果。主席已經站很久了，請你們去檢討一下，在文策院、國發基金的投資出來之後，輔導金的補助辦法要不要做調整，可以嗎？因為這會有排擠效果。"],["李部長遠：我可不可以講一句話？"],["葉委員元之：可以。"],["李部長遠：事實上，輔導金裡面有一個新人組是專門針對沒有拍過電影的導演，有50%拿到錢。"],["葉委員元之：我知道。"],["李部長遠：全世界只有臺灣做得到，所以它沒有排擠。"],["葉委員元之：有排擠，因為它的總額是3億，其中有4個項目，包括新人組、動畫組等，我都知道，我們以結果來講，我認為輔導金就不需要補助九把刀，為什麼要補助他？國發基金已經補助1億，為了輔導金還要給他3,500萬，為什麼？"],["李部長遠：他拿的好像是下一部電影的錢，因為他曾經得過獎。"],["葉委員元之：「功夫」這部電影就拿了1億5,000萬，1億是國發基金、3,500萬是國片輔導金，國發基金已經給他1億，為什麼國片輔導金還要給他3,500萬，為什麼？"],["李部長遠：所以上一次我有特別講到，我們重新針對輔導金和投資這兩項，我們最近也有開過會，跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：你要調整，你也覺得有問題，對不對？所以「功夫」令人傻眼，沒關係，你再把最後的制度再給我們，為什麼召委今天會排這個報告，你看他的題目也很有藝術，以災難說來看文化部，因為以災難說是對的，希望你不要改口，你不要今天來這邊一副就是委員講的都對，我們要調整，回去隔兩天之後又講，我那天就是因為他一直這樣講，我沒辦法就應付他，不然我下不去之類的，我希望不要看到你再講這樣的話，好不好？"],["李部長遠：好，沒問題。"],["葉委員元之：心口合一，謝謝部長。"],["李部長遠：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，我們休息5分鐘。","休息（10時29分）","繼續開會（10時34分）"],["主席：現在開會。","下一位郭昱晴委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":176,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-22-20","speakers":["羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","柯志恩","陳秀寳","葉元之","郭昱晴","陳培瑜","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔","吳思瑤","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蔡春綢","許忠信","張雅琳","羅智強","傅崐萁","林宜瑾","謝龍介"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2026-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1156401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部部長李遠列席就「以災難說檢視文化部國際傳播政策執行成效、文化內容投資及公共\n資源運用補助」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1156401_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}