{"error":false,"id":["170506"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170506,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170506","日期":"2026-07-16","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-5-19,35,20-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[19,35,20],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會","外交及國防委員會","財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-16T10:31:42+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-16T10:44:33+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:51","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c57864e9296d477535a22366a0e1e8711ac734a26d834dc4a4701c14be315405f8e03f26c378850b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"10:31:42 - 10:44:33","會議時間":"2026-07-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查：\n一、\t行政院函請審議「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案。\n二、\t本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案。\n三、\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「強化國防自主暨無人機產業發展條例草案」案。\n四、\t本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例草案」案。(僅詢答)(以上各案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查)）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":1.0265937500000002,"end":3.4397187500000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":9.93659375,"end":13.969718750000002,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":20.770343750000002,"end":21.614093750000002,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":21.614093750000002,"end":34.034093750000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":34.20284375,"end":45.59346875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":45.930968750000005,"end":48.884093750000005,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":49.17096875,"end":59.07659375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":59.61659375000001,"end":88.45596875000001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":88.69221875000001,"end":90.54846875000001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":91.07159375,"end":92.97846875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":93.41721875,"end":94.59846875000001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":95.00346875000001,"end":141.93284375000002,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":142.72596875000002,"end":146.82659375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":147.23159375,"end":158.97659375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":158.97659375,"end":160.49534375000002,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":161.01846875,"end":164.62971875000002,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":164.78159375,"end":166.87409375000001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":167.16096875000002,"end":170.02971875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":170.16471875000002,"end":171.64971875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":172.05471875,"end":177.03284375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":177.18471875,"end":185.74034375000002,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":182.04471875000002,"end":183.12471875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":183.58034375000003,"end":184.10346875000002,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":185.95971875,"end":188.94659375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":189.11534375000002,"end":193.14846875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":189.77346875,"end":190.17846875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":193.38471875000002,"end":196.45596875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":196.79346875000002,"end":198.85221875000002,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":199.18971875000003,"end":201.34971875000002,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":201.50159375,"end":202.14284375000003,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":202.26096875000002,"end":217.04346875000002,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":217.21221875,"end":247.75596875000002,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":249.29159375,"end":249.61221875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":250.40534375000001,"end":256.14284375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":256.49721875,"end":270.99284375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":271.16159375,"end":280.17284375,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":280.72971875,"end":280.91534375000003,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":281.26971875000004,"end":288.25596875,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":288.61034375,"end":304.47284375000004,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":304.89471875000004,"end":317.60159375,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":316.70721875000004,"end":399.32721875000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":382.41846875000005,"end":382.70534375,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":399.52971875000003,"end":399.95159375000003,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":400.57596875,"end":402.82034375,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":403.41096875000005,"end":439.64159375,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":415.42596875000004,"end":417.18096875000003,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":440.23221875,"end":448.56846875,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":448.72034375000004,"end":456.46596875,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":453.09096875,"end":453.32721875000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":453.56346875,"end":454.98096875000005,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":455.70659375,"end":462.40596875000006,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":456.70221875000004,"end":457.93409375000005,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":462.67596875000004,"end":469.45971875000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":464.39721875000004,"end":464.59971875,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":466.59096875000006,"end":470.26971875000004,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":469.89846875,"end":513.7565937500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":515.95034375,"end":635.1553437499999,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":536.7065937500001,"end":536.92596875,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":634.2947187500001,"end":634.8684687500001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":635.1553437499999,"end":640.7747187500001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":640.97721875,"end":643.33971875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":643.39034375,"end":647.1028437500001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":647.3897187499999,"end":656.7722187500001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":647.57534375,"end":649.68471875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":649.97159375,"end":650.51159375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":651.0178437500001,"end":651.64221875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":656.9578437499999,"end":660.23159375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":660.53534375,"end":661.93596875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":662.05409375,"end":672.9553437500001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":665.88471875,"end":666.54284375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":673.1240937500002,"end":674.82846875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":674.98034375,"end":675.99284375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":676.29659375,"end":677.4440937500001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":677.64659375,"end":681.8484687499999,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":682.01721875,"end":685.40909375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":683.46846875,"end":683.9072187500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":684.70034375,"end":693.9309687500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":693.9309687500001,"end":693.94784375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":694.52159375,"end":709.84409375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":701.74409375,"end":701.96346875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":705.65909375,"end":706.92471875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":708.3928437500001,"end":717.20159375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":717.2690937500001,"end":717.64034375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":718.01159375,"end":718.33221875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":718.33221875,"end":725.5715937500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":725.5715937500001,"end":725.75721875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":725.8415937500001,"end":732.2878437500001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":732.50721875,"end":745.2309687500001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":740.7253437500001,"end":741.80534375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":745.2309687500001,"end":746.2097187500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":745.2478437500001,"end":752.18346875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":747.0872187500001,"end":760.7390937499999,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":757.14471875,"end":762.0047187499999,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":761.6840937500001,"end":765.3459687500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":762.03846875,"end":762.05534375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":764.43471875,"end":766.57784375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":765.6328437500001,"end":769.76721875,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":769.2778437500001,"end":772.1128437500001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":770.50971875,"end":770.79659375,"speaker_score":0.964}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.429,"end":10.458,"text":"謝謝政天朝委員 接下來請楊瓊英委員謝謝主席 楊瓊英發言 邀請經濟部跟國防部"},{"start":21.882,"end":43.872,"text":"市長我們今天是看到行政院提出了國防自主無人載具採購特別條例那重點是聚焦在國防採購那相較之下國民黨跟民眾黨那所提出的也就還有其他委員所提出國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例草案"},{"start":46.073,"end":63.627,"text":"所強調的是國防需求之外更要將經濟部納入為主管機關單位那要求推動無人機產業聚落中小企業輔助供應鏈的安全以及軍民共用測試場以及國產化的目標"},{"start":67.009,"end":76.451,"text":"那最重要的我們還要建立年度的成果檢討機制使無人機的政策它不是只有增加國防的戰力它還能夠成為帶動整個產業升級的新引擎所以本席要特別提出台中具備了精密機械產業聚落"},{"start":91.115,"end":107.073,"text":"航太零組件製造的能量以及完整的供應鏈的一個基礎以身具有發展無人機產業的重要條件那政府在推動整個無人機的政策"},{"start":107.654,"end":110.015,"text":"應該要優先的來做整合具有的產業優勢讓具體具備製作實力的台中市來成為國防自主的供應鏈的一個供應核心所以請教兩位"},{"start":127.282,"end":134.829,"text":"那未來我們在推動無人機的這個產業聚落以及軍民共用測試場域時是不是會先整合這些具備相關條件就第一個"},{"start":142.817,"end":160.33,"text":"同時台中是最具備的那麼是不是會將台中這個既有的精密機械與航太產業的這個基礎納入優先佈局讓台中成為打造國家的無人機產業的一個重鎮請做說明"},{"start":161.851,"end":182.923,"text":"跟委員報告確實台中在精密機械智慧加工這方面具有領導領先的一個地位那我們現在看全國的這個無人機發展的一個聚落分布的狀況其實北中南都各有特色那我想中部地區本來底氣就非常非常足底氣非常足底氣非常足那現在聯盟的場"},{"start":186.446,"end":210.007,"text":"的這個主席也是我們漢翔的這個曹董事長所以我想就從這邊就可以看得出來我們過去在這個民用航空還有軍用這個教練機這個部分本來就有很好的一個發展的基礎所以我想過去我們在做產業輔導的部分尤其在中部地區的智慧這個機械的部分我們投入非常非常的多"},{"start":210.447,"end":228.078,"text":"所以很顯然就是未來無人機產業的一個發展台中一定會扮演很重要的一個角色謝謝你的台中扮演重要角色他是重中之重尤其之前總統先生也來到我們漢祥原地那麼大家在那邊做了一個很好的一個"},{"start":229.679,"end":245.786,"text":"這個了解跟溝通無人機產業目前這些廠家他們所碰到的問題需要政府的協助以及他們的優勢可以跟世界接軌在我們當地可以產生出來的這些都在當天討論得非常的詳細所以來請教部長"},{"start":250.473,"end":270.872,"text":"今天我們討論的這個條例我想大家都希望無人機在台灣是能夠成為產業轉型非常重要的一個契機點除了國防安全之外發展整個我們無人機的產業邁向全世界這是一個非常重要的一個關鍵 您的看法呢"},{"start":271.252,"end":288.052,"text":"是 跟委員報告 我想我們現在這個無人載具在地的這個能量是相當的高的我想我就可以以中科院為例事實上中科院所研製的這些相關的這些它很大部分的比例都是在地"},{"start":288.913,"end":314.988,"text":"的廠商能夠提供的那所以我們認為這些無人載具如果再進一步藉由國防部的這樣子的一個需求因為我們作為最大的需求單位我們應該有責任來提出這樣子的一個相當比較常識然後長單然後能夠讓廠商願意再進一步來投資然後願意進一步再來"},{"start":315.948,"end":320.654,"text":"迭代更新 是 知道他是有願景的嘛是不是 我謝謝部長你的回答齁那在院會交付這個條例呢 由這個經濟部經濟委員會 財政委員會 以及"},{"start":330.905,"end":337.373,"text":"國防委員會來做審議我覺得這是非常正確的一個方向從剛剛兩位所回答我們不只是要增加國防的力道我們更要推動這個產業邁向全世界那麼我們也知道在剛剛兩位回答當中台中"},{"start":349.366,"end":357.011,"text":"中部地區在整個大渡山的黃金重股他是非常具備的他是非常具備所以我也在這邊要具體要求一定要將台中這一些產業的部落第一個先做整合的工作第二個讓他們陳如部長剛才所說的讓他們知道這個願景他們願意投資政府做他們最大的一個後盾那當然這個後盾的重要的"},{"start":377.665,"end":381.928,"text":"原則也就是我們必須要有法律定制產業條例出來之後讓他們真正的放心大家合作團結一致來帶動推動整個無人機的一個產業這也是本席一直在吶喊的我們台中準備好了請政府一定要重視而且全力的來推動對不對"},{"start":401.149,"end":426.697,"text":"謝謝委員的發言那我想國防部有國防部的職責經濟部有經濟部的職責經濟部職責者是做產業的輔導發展國防部的職責就是提出我們的需求那我們是最知道我們的作戰需求的所以我們只是希望我們只是希望說將我們的採購的部分我們用特別條例的這個部分是能夠放一塊至於產業發展的部分要怎麼去進行"},{"start":427.717,"end":445.928,"text":"那這個部分或者是由經濟部提出 或者要列入條例這個我想是另外一塊但我們國防部是希望我們的採購就是由我們國防部來主導我們國防部才知道我們最最大最好的一個作戰需求嘛那也就是說我們國防部編預算這個預算是用來採購我們買米跟買醬油的錢不要把它混在一台我們"},{"start":453.232,"end":469.659,"text":"我們就是拿來買我們所需要的裝備部長 你就否決剛剛你第一階段的一個回答所以我在這邊還是具體三方合作能夠達到最高的一個效能我們一定會跟經濟部好好合作"},{"start":470.279,"end":472.92,"text":"合作包括了我們之前所說的442億在各方的整合剛剛我也聽到國防部跟經濟部你們有做對接的一個工作這就是為什麼我們要副委到三個委員會很重要我們除了買"},{"start":489.148,"end":491.11,"text":"國防部提出需求更重要的是我們當地的產業他必須能夠落點在我們這邊發揮出來台灣製造這非常的重要這也是帶動整個產業的一個重大革命也是我們邁向全世界產業發展好那這個議題到此我要請教這個經濟部來國防部你請回"},{"start":515.984,"end":542.739,"text":"部長昨天我們審查預算我們特別針對AI的這個部分但是我們看到在台灣金融研究所的這個金融穩定研究中心的陳主任他說出了AI快速的這個發展也帶來了產業的一個契機但是也讓中小企業面臨到更大的一個轉型更大的一個轉型所以在這樣的一個情況之下我們看到中小企業他必須要做什麼"},{"start":543.399,"end":560.75,"text":"他必須要融資貸款但是目前還是著重在整個擔保品財務報表以及塑性的模式還是依照以前但是現在的產業不一樣甚至政府要提出了微中小型1000億的這個預算要來輔導整個中小企業我昨天也特別說了因為現在的產業發展完全不一樣"},{"start":568.795,"end":583.218,"text":"甚至有藝人公司他自己在家可以創造很大的一個產值因為AI整個的體系的一個轉變所以在融資方面如果你沒有協助中小企業的話他只能夠到"},{"start":584.079,"end":595.045,"text":"高貸款利息的部分那你增加整個中小企業的一個成本壓力或許在這個過程當中沒有那麼順暢的時候會衍生影響到什麼呢到他創造的契機會失掉了在這樣的情況之下我具體要求經濟部你既然要推出也是本席一直吶喊"},{"start":608.112,"end":632.041,"text":"支持中小企業他達到了我們八成的就業率沒有理由不照顧我們的中小企業那在貸款受信的部分你應當要跟金管會等單位去研議怎麼樣簡化怎麼樣讓我們的中小企業他是真正的能夠貸款的到而不是口惠而不實而不是只看得到這個這個吃不到請做說明你怎麼做調整"},{"start":636.082,"end":652.088,"text":"確實如同委員所講的中小企業在資金的需求上面常常會面臨到這個單薄品不足或是說它的這個營業額可能會有一些波動這樣的一些影響環境改變嘛產業的產業的特性也改變整個供應鏈也重組所以可能面臨到種種的一些壓力所以最重要就是說我怎麼樣能夠增加中小企業的這個保證的能量能夠讓中小企業到銀行去借款的時候"},{"start":665.533,"end":685.318,"text":"政府做他的靠山啊國家的擔保政府來做靠山這個部分我想這個也是總統跟院長特別在指示我們中小微企業升級轉型發展條例裡面我們怎麼樣從這些升級轉型的這些中小企業的需求上面我們提供這些更多的保證的事情你什麼時候告訴我們呢因為這個延續到有將近171萬家有將近到900多萬的就業人口"},{"start":694.611,"end":716.983,"text":"是 所以我們現在就是要提升保證的這個層數那另外剛剛委員提提升保證的層數提升保證的層數第二個就是從優從速從簡從優從速從簡來解決這些中小企業融資不便的問題你多久時間可以告訴我們中小企業因為這維繫著整個經濟核心的中小企業大概佔我們台灣產值的八成對"},{"start":718.524,"end":742.357,"text":"是請教你多久時間可以告訴我們你要提升保值的乘數什麼時候告訴我們你要預計要提升幾成其實現在信保基金的保證乘數已經都可以拉到像有一些政策性的專案貸款有可以多到九成九成或是九成五所以這樣的一個高保證乘數都可以來特別為一些那個是特定嗎你不是這700這個171"},{"start":744.938,"end":769.524,"text":"沒有一些中小企業的這個貸款你把你的方案請提出來好不好你把你的方案提出來因為我現在就是告訴你嘛懲罰案非常的多我貸不到嘛對不對所以請你把方案提出來好不好保證成數已經拉高了請你把方案提出來也去檢視你目前的樣態好不好全力的照顧我們的中小企業真正可以貸的到款好不好謝謝好 謝謝王謝謝楊瓊英委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:31:44.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:31:52.438000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請經濟部跟國防部。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T10:31:52.438000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:31:58.940500+08:00","text":"楊委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:31:58.940500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:32:05.443000+08:00","text":"兩位首長好。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:32:05.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:32:45.627000+08:00","text":"我們今天看到行政院提出「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」，重點是聚焦在國防採購，相較之下，國民黨跟民眾黨還有其他委員所提出的「國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例草案」，強調的是除了國防需求之外，更要將經濟部納入主管機關單位，要求推動無人機產業聚落、中小企業扶助、供應鏈的安全、軍民共用測試場以及國產化的目標。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:32:49.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:32:57.651000+08:00","text":"最重要的是我們還要建立年度的成果檢討機制，使無人機的政策不是只有增加國防的戰力，它能夠成為帶動整個產業升級的新引擎。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:32:57.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:33:31.675000+08:00","text":"所以本席要特別提出，臺中具備了精密機械產業聚落、航太零組件製造能量以及完整供應鏈的基礎，已深具發展無人機產業的重要條件，政府推動整個無人機的政策應該要優先整合既有的產業優勢，讓具備製作實力的臺中市成為國防自主供應鏈的供應核心。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:33:31.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:33:56.049000+08:00","text":"請教兩位，未來我們在推動無人機的產業聚落以及軍民共用測試場域時，是不是會先整合這些具備相關條件的部分？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:33:56.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:33:56.829000+08:00","text":"這是第一個。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:34:04.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:34:22.009000+08:00","text":"同時，臺中是最具備相關條件的，是不是會將臺中已經有精密機械與航太產業基礎的地方納入優先布局，讓臺中成為國家無人機產業的重鎮？","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:34:22.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:34:22.310000+08:00","text":"請說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:34:23.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:34:43.582000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，確實臺中在精密機械、智慧加工這方面具有領導、領先的地位，我們現在看全國無人機發展聚落的分布狀況，其實北、中、南都各有特色，我想中部地區本來底氣就非常足……","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:34:44.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:34:44.383000+08:00","text":"底氣非常足。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:34:44.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:34:52.769000+08:00","text":"底氣非常足，現在聯盟的主席也是我們漢翔的曹董事長。對。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:34:52.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:35:18.811000+08:00","text":"所以我想從這邊就可以看得出來，我們過去在民用航空還有軍用教練機這個部分，本來就有很好的發展基礎，過去我們在做產業輔導，尤其在中部地區智慧機械這個部分，我們投入非常非常的多，所以很顯然臺中在未來無人機產業的發展上一定會扮演很重要的角色。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:35:19.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:35:32.780000+08:00","text":"謝謝，你說臺中會扮演重要的角色，它是重中之重，尤其之前總統先生也來到漢翔園區，大家在那邊做了很好的了解跟溝通。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:35:34.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:35:46.986000+08:00","text":"目前無人機產業的這些廠家碰到的問題需要政府協助，他們的優勢可以跟世界接軌，且在當地可以生產出來，這些都在當天做了非常詳細的討論。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:35:47.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:36:12.852000+08:00","text":"請教部長，今天我們討論這個條例，我想大家都希望無人機在臺灣能夠成為產業轉型非常重要的一個契機，除了國防安全之外，我們要發展整個無人機的產業，邁向全世界，這是一個非常重要的關鍵，你的看法呢？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T10:36:13.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:36:58.349000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我想我們現在無人載具在地的能量是相當高的，以中科院為例，事實上，中科院所研製的無人載具有很大比例都是在地的廠商能夠提供的，所以我們認為這些無人載具如果再進一步藉由國防部這樣的需求……因為我們是作為需求最大的單位，我們應該有責任提出比較長時的、長單，讓廠商願意再進一步投資，願意進一步迭代更新……","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:36:58.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:37:01.492000+08:00","text":"是，因為知道它是有願景的，是不是？是。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:37:01.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:37:17.230000+08:00","text":"部長，我謝謝你的回答，在院會將這個條例交由經濟委員會、財政委員會以及國防委員會審議，我覺得這是一個非常正確的方向。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:37:17.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:37:18.411000+08:00","text":"就誠如剛剛兩位所回答的，我們不只是要增加國防的力道，我們更要推動產業邁向全世界。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:37:18.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:37:38.211000+08:00","text":"我們也知道，在剛剛兩位的回答當中，臺中、中部地區在整個大肚山的黃金縱谷非常具備相關的條件，所以我在這邊具體要求，對於臺中這些產業部落，第一個是一定要先做整合的工作；第二個，誠如部長剛才所說的，要讓他們知道這個願景，讓他們願意投資，政府會做他們最大的後盾。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:37:38.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:38:03.928000+08:00","text":"當然做這個後盾的重要原則就是我們必須要有法律定之，在產業條例出來之後，讓他們真正放心，大家合作、團結一致來推動整個無人機產業，這也是本席一直在吶喊的，我們臺中準備好了，請政府一定要重視，而且要全力推動，對不對？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T10:38:23.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:38:37.133000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的發言，我想國防部有國防部的職責，經濟部有經濟部的職責，經濟部的職責是做產業的輔導發展，國防部的職責就是提出我們的需求，我們最知道我們的作戰需求。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:38:37.133000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:38:38.414000+08:00","text":"部長，你這個回答就對了！","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T10:38:38.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:39:04.866000+08:00","text":"我們只是希望將我們採購的部分在特別條例裡面能夠放一塊，至於產業發展的部分要怎麼去進行，這個部分或者是由經濟部提出計畫，或者要列入條例，我想這是另外一塊，但我們國防部是希望我們的採購就是由我們國防部來主導，因為我們國防部才知道我們最大的作戰需求。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T10:39:05.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:39:17.793000+08:00","text":"也就是說，我們國防部編預算，這個預算是用來採購，我們不要把買米跟買醬油的錢混為一談，我們就是拿來買我們所需要的裝備……","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:39:17.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:39:28.057000+08:00","text":"部長，你這樣說就否決了剛剛你在第一階段的回答，我在這邊還是具體提出，要三方合作才能夠達到最高的效能。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T10:39:29.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:39:31.639000+08:00","text":"對，我們一定會跟經濟部好好合作。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:39:32.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:39:33.860000+08:00","text":"要好好合作，包括我們之前所說的442億在各方的整合。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:39:33.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:39:52.690000+08:00","text":"剛剛我也聽到國防部跟經濟部有做對接的工作，這就是為什麼我們付委是交到三個委員會，因為這個很重要，我們除了買國防部提出需求的部分，更重要的是我們當地的產業，它必須能夠落點在我們這邊，發揮出臺灣製造，這非常重要，這也可以帶動整個產業的重大革命，也讓我們邁向全世界產業發展。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:39:52.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:39:53.090000+08:00","text":"這個議題討論到此，我接下來要請教經濟部，國防部請回。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:40:18.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:40:38.655000+08:00","text":"次長，昨天我們審查預算，我們特別針對AI這個部分，我們看到台灣金融研訓院金融穩定研究中心的陳主任說，AI快速發展也帶來產業創新的契機，但是也讓中小企業面臨更大的轉型壓力。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:40:41.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:40:44.739000+08:00","text":"在這樣的情況之下，我們看到中小企業必須要做什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:40:45.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:41:01.649000+08:00","text":"他必須要融資貸款，但是目前還是著重在整個擔保品、財務報表，授信還是依照以前的模式，但是現在的產業不一樣，甚至政府要提出中小微企業1,000億的預算要來輔導整個中小企業。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:41:01.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:41:19.970000+08:00","text":"我昨天也特別說了，因為現在的產業發展完全不一樣，甚至有一人公司，他自己在家可以創造很大的產值，因為AI所以整個體系轉變。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:41:20.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:41:35.064000+08:00","text":"因此在融資方面，如果你沒有協助中小企業的話，他只能夠取得高貸款利息的部分，這增加整個中小企業的成本壓力，或許在這個過程當中，沒有那麼順暢的時候會衍生、影響到什麼呢？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:41:35.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:41:35.224000+08:00","text":"他會失去創造的契機。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:41:35.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:42:14.021000+08:00","text":"在這樣的情況之下，我具體要求，經濟部既然要推出這樣的方案，也是本席一直吶喊支持的中小企業，它達到了我們八成的就業率，沒有理由不照顧我們的中小企業，在貸款、授信的部分，你應當要跟金管會等單位去研議怎麼樣簡化、怎麼樣讓我們的中小企業真正能夠貸款得到，而不是口惠而實不至，不是看得到、吃不到，請說明你怎麼調整？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:42:18.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:42:28.866000+08:00","text":"確實如同委員所講的，中小企業在資金的需求上常會面臨到擔保品不足，或是它的營業額可能會有一些波動等等影響，所以提升……","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:42:28.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:42:29.446000+08:00","text":"對，環境改變嘛，產業的……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:42:29.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:42:29.727000+08:00","text":"對，環境改變，然後產業的特性也改變。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:42:29.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:42:29.907000+08:00","text":"對，特性改變。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:42:29.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:42:34.068000+08:00","text":"整個供應鏈也重組，所以可能面臨種種壓力，因此最重要就是，我怎麼樣增加中小企業的保證能量，能夠讓中小企業到銀行借款的時候……","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:42:47.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:42:48.473000+08:00","text":"就要政府做他的靠山！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:42:49.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:42:50.694000+08:00","text":"國家的擔保，政府來做靠山。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:42:51.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:43:05.677000+08:00","text":"這個部分我想也是總統跟院長特別指示，我們在中小微企業升級轉型發展條例裡面，怎麼樣針對這些升級轉型中小企業的需求提供更多保證資金。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:43:05.677000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:43:06.677000+08:00","text":"你要怎麼提供？","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:43:05.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:43:06.218000+08:00","text":"你什麼時候要告訴我們呢？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:43:06.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:43:07.298000+08:00","text":"因為這部分關係到將近171萬家、將近九百多萬的就業人口。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:43:16.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:43:20.873000+08:00","text":"是，所以我們現在就是要提升保證的成數。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:43:21.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:43:21.814000+08:00","text":"另外，剛剛委員提到……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:43:22.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:43:25.616000+08:00","text":"提升保證的成數。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:43:25.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:43:30.259000+08:00","text":"第二個，就是從優、從速、從簡，來解決這些中小企業融資不便的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:43:30.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:43:34.241000+08:00","text":"你多久時間可以告訴我們中小企業？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:43:34.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:43:40.524000+08:00","text":"因為這些維繫著整個經濟核心的中小企業大概占我們臺灣產值的八成。是。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:43:40.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:43:46.047000+08:00","text":"請教你多久時間可以告訴我們你要提升保證的成數，什麼時候告訴我們？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:43:46.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:43:47.208000+08:00","text":"你預計要提升幾成？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:43:48.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:02.236000+08:00","text":"其實現在信保基金的保證成數已經都拉到……像有一些政策性的專案貸款可以到九成或是九成五，所以這樣的高保證成數都可以特別為一些……","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:02.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:04.337000+08:00","text":"那個是特定嘛，不是針對171萬家嘛。","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:06.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:09.799000+08:00","text":"沒有，一些中小微企業的貸款、專案性的貸款……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:11.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:13.960000+08:00","text":"你把你的方案提出來，好不好？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:13.960000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:14.960000+08:00","text":"是，現在已經有這樣的中小微企業貸款。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:14.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:18.481000+08:00","text":"我現在就是告訴你，陳情案非常多，他貸不到嘛！","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:19.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:20.121000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:20.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:22.502000+08:00","text":"所以請你把方案提出來，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:22.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:23.662000+08:00","text":"已經把保證成數拉高。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:23.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:26.923000+08:00","text":"請你把方案提出來，也檢視你目前的樣態，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:26.923000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:27.923000+08:00","text":"現在已經有，我們再把資料提供給委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:27.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:31.244000+08:00","text":"全力照顧我們的中小企業，讓他們真正可以貸的到款，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:31.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:31.364000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:31.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:31.524000+08:00","text":"謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:32.024000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:36.595429+08:00","text":"待會呂玉玲委員質詢完畢後，休息10分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T10:44:36.895429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:44:40.038286+08:00","text":"接下來請王義川委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":503,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（10時31分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請經濟部跟國防部。"],["顧部長立雄：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：兩位首長好。我們今天看到行政院提出「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」，重點是聚焦在國防採購，相較之下，國民黨跟民眾黨還有其他委員所提出的「國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例草案」，強調的是除了國防需求之外，更要將經濟部納入主管機關單位，要求推動無人機產業聚落、中小企業扶助、供應鏈的安全、軍民共用測試場以及國產化的目標。最重要的是我們還要建立年度的成果檢討機制，使無人機的政策不是只有增加國防的戰力，它能夠成為帶動整個產業升級的新引擎。所以本席要特別提出，臺中具備了精密機械產業聚落、航太零組件製造能量以及完整供應鏈的基礎，已深具發展無人機產業的重要條件，政府推動整個無人機的政策應該要優先整合既有的產業優勢，讓具備製作實力的臺中市成為國防自主供應鏈的供應核心。請教兩位，未來我們在推動無人機的產業聚落以及軍民共用測試場域時，是不是會先整合這些具備相關條件的部分？這是第一個。同時，臺中是最具備相關條件的，是不是會將臺中已經有精密機械與航太產業基礎的地方納入優先布局，讓臺中成為國家無人機產業的重鎮？請說明。"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，確實臺中在精密機械、智慧加工這方面具有領導、領先的地位，我們現在看全國無人機發展聚落的分布狀況，其實北、中、南都各有特色，我想中部地區本來底氣就非常足……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：底氣非常足。"],["何次長晉滄：底氣非常足，現在聯盟的主席也是我們漢翔的曹董事長。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對。"],["何次長晉滄：所以我想從這邊就可以看得出來，我們過去在民用航空還有軍用教練機這個部分，本來就有很好的發展基礎，過去我們在做產業輔導，尤其在中部地區智慧機械這個部分，我們投入非常非常的多，所以很顯然臺中在未來無人機產業的發展上一定會扮演很重要的角色。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝，你說臺中會扮演重要的角色，它是重中之重，尤其之前總統先生也來到漢翔園區，大家在那邊做了很好的了解跟溝通。目前無人機產業的這些廠家碰到的問題需要政府協助，他們的優勢可以跟世界接軌，且在當地可以生產出來，這些都在當天做了非常詳細的討論。請教部長，今天我們討論這個條例，我想大家都希望無人機在臺灣能夠成為產業轉型非常重要的一個契機，除了國防安全之外，我們要發展整個無人機的產業，邁向全世界，這是一個非常重要的關鍵，你的看法呢？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我想我們現在無人載具在地的能量是相當高的，以中科院為例，事實上，中科院所研製的無人載具有很大比例都是在地的廠商能夠提供的，所以我們認為這些無人載具如果再進一步藉由國防部這樣的需求……因為我們是作為需求最大的單位，我們應該有責任提出比較長時的、長單，讓廠商願意再進一步投資，願意進一步迭代更新……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是，因為知道它是有願景的，是不是？"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，我謝謝你的回答，在院會將這個條例交由經濟委員會、財政委員會以及國防委員會審議，我覺得這是一個非常正確的方向。就誠如剛剛兩位所回答的，我們不只是要增加國防的力道，我們更要推動產業邁向全世界。我們也知道，在剛剛兩位的回答當中，臺中、中部地區在整個大肚山的黃金縱谷非常具備相關的條件，所以我在這邊具體要求，對於臺中這些產業部落，第一個是一定要先做整合的工作；第二個，誠如部長剛才所說的，要讓他們知道這個願景，讓他們願意投資，政府會做他們最大的後盾。當然做這個後盾的重要原則就是我們必須要有法律定之，在產業條例出來之後，讓他們真正放心，大家合作、團結一致來推動整個無人機產業，這也是本席一直在吶喊的，我們臺中準備好了，請政府一定要重視，而且要全力推動，對不對？"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝委員的發言，我想國防部有國防部的職責，經濟部有經濟部的職責，經濟部的職責是做產業的輔導發展，國防部的職責就是提出我們的需求，我們最知道我們的作戰需求。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你這個回答就對了！"],["顧部長立雄：我們只是希望將我們採購的部分在特別條例裡面能夠放一塊，至於產業發展的部分要怎麼去進行，這個部分或者是由經濟部提出計畫，或者要列入條例，我想這是另外一塊，但我們國防部是希望我們的採購就是由我們國防部來主導，因為我們國防部才知道我們最大的作戰需求。也就是說，我們國防部編預算，這個預算是用來採購，我們不要把買米跟買醬油的錢混為一談，我們就是拿來買我們所需要的裝備……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你這樣說就否決了剛剛你在第一階段的回答，我在這邊還是具體提出，要三方合作才能夠達到最高的效能。"],["顧部長立雄：對，我們一定會跟經濟部好好合作。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要好好合作，包括我們之前所說的442億在各方的整合。剛剛我也聽到國防部跟經濟部有做對接的工作，這就是為什麼我們付委是交到三個委員會，因為這個很重要，我們除了買國防部提出需求的部分，更重要的是我們當地的產業，它必須能夠落點在我們這邊，發揮出臺灣製造，這非常重要，這也可以帶動整個產業的重大革命，也讓我們邁向全世界產業發展。","這個議題討論到此，我接下來要請教經濟部，國防部請回。次長，昨天我們審查預算，我們特別針對AI這個部分，我們看到台灣金融研訓院金融穩定研究中心的陳主任說，AI快速發展也帶來產業創新的契機，但是也讓中小企業面臨更大的轉型壓力。在這樣的情況之下，我們看到中小企業必須要做什麼？他必須要融資貸款，但是目前還是著重在整個擔保品、財務報表，授信還是依照以前的模式，但是現在的產業不一樣，甚至政府要提出中小微企業1,000億的預算要來輔導整個中小企業。我昨天也特別說了，因為現在的產業發展完全不一樣，甚至有一人公司，他自己在家可以創造很大的產值，因為AI所以整個體系轉變。因此在融資方面，如果你沒有協助中小企業的話，他只能夠取得高貸款利息的部分，這增加整個中小企業的成本壓力，或許在這個過程當中，沒有那麼順暢的時候會衍生、影響到什麼呢？他會失去創造的契機。","在這樣的情況之下，我具體要求，經濟部既然要推出這樣的方案，也是本席一直吶喊支持的中小企業，它達到了我們八成的就業率，沒有理由不照顧我們的中小企業，在貸款、授信的部分，你應當要跟金管會等單位去研議怎麼樣簡化、怎麼樣讓我們的中小企業真正能夠貸款得到，而不是口惠而實不至，不是看得到、吃不到，請說明你怎麼調整？"],["何次長晉滄：確實如同委員所講的，中小企業在資金的需求上常會面臨到擔保品不足，或是它的營業額可能會有一些波動等等影響，所以提升……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，環境改變嘛，產業的……"],["何次長晉滄：對，環境改變，然後產業的特性也改變。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，特性改變。"],["何次長晉滄：整個供應鏈也重組，所以可能面臨種種壓力，因此最重要就是，我怎麼樣增加中小企業的保證能量，能夠讓中小企業到銀行借款的時候……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就要政府做他的靠山！"],["何次長晉滄：國家的擔保，政府來做靠山。這個部分我想也是總統跟院長特別指示，我們在中小微企業升級轉型發展條例裡面，怎麼樣針對這些升級轉型中小企業的需求提供更多保證資金。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要怎麼提供？你什麼時候要告訴我們呢？因為這部分關係到將近171萬家、將近九百多萬的就業人口。"],["何次長晉滄：是，所以我們現在就是要提升保證的成數。另外，剛剛委員提到……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：提升保證的成數。"],["何次長晉滄：第二個，就是從優、從速、從簡，來解決這些中小企業融資不便的問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你多久時間可以告訴我們中小企業？因為這些維繫著整個經濟核心的中小企業大概占我們臺灣產值的八成。"],["何次長晉滄：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請教你多久時間可以告訴我們你要提升保證的成數，什麼時候告訴我們？你預計要提升幾成？"],["何次長晉滄：其實現在信保基金的保證成數已經都拉到……像有一些政策性的專案貸款可以到九成或是九成五，所以這樣的高保證成數都可以特別為一些……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那個是特定嘛，不是針對171萬家嘛。"],["何次長晉滄：沒有，一些中小微企業的貸款、專案性的貸款……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你把你的方案提出來，好不好？"],["何次長晉滄：是，現在已經有這樣的中小微企業貸款。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我現在就是告訴你，陳情案非常多，他貸不到嘛！對不對？所以請你把方案提出來，好不好？"],["何次長晉滄：已經把保證成數拉高。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請你把方案提出來，也檢視你目前的樣態，好不好？"],["何次長晉滄：現在已經有，我們再把資料提供給委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：全力照顧我們的中小企業，讓他們真正可以貸的到款，好不好？謝謝。"],["何次長晉滄：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","待會呂玉玲委員質詢完畢後，休息10分鐘。","接下來請王義川委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-5-19,35,20-1","speakers":["洪毓祥","林楚茵","林沛祥","王安祥","陳亭妃","賴士葆","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","王義川","呂玉玲","劉書彬","王定宇","謝衣鳯","鍾佳濱","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","郭國文","陳永康","蔡易餘","陳超明","邱志偉","李彥秀","鄭正鈐","馬文君","牛煦庭","黃建賓","李坤城","陳冠廷","羅明才","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","羅美玲","林德福","林思銘","傅崐萁","張嘉郡","蘇清泉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1156401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查：一、行政院函請審議「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案；二、本院委員林楚\n茵等17人擬具「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「強化\n國防自主暨無人機產業發展條例草案」案；四、本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防自主無人載具科技發\n展及採購條例草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156401_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}