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請經濟部的何次長 國防部的顧部長還有國發會的蕭處長"},{"start":21.035,"end":44.8,"text":"何市長本席在這邊很懷疑今天我們的工部長沒有來今天我們要討論的是無人載具產業的發展這跟我們經濟部有高度的相關反正我們經濟部長沒有來反正是我們國防部長有出席很多人在說無人機的採購不關經濟部的事所以本席在這邊一定要提一下"},{"start":45.76,"end":66.232,"text":"我們有個台灣卓越無人機海外商機聯盟成立的宗旨是要促進台灣無人機產業的發展鄰居者共識展現無人機產業的決心推動國際的合作以市場拓展建立非紅供應鏈何市長這個聯盟是誰在推動的"},{"start":72.512,"end":91.434,"text":"是誰推動的這個目前聯盟的主席是這個漢翔是誰推動的是我們經濟部推動的我們經濟部在支持就是我們經濟部推動的所以主管機關由經濟部來統籌有什麼錯呢而且在這個無能載具這個產業我們經濟部是走了非常前面的站在無能機"},{"start":92.795,"end":116.593,"text":"這個無人載具這個產業的發展的立場我們當然是由經濟部來主管而且我們這個部分的話不只是軍用還有商用甚至我們要推向國際這只有經濟部的統籌才可以做得到至於說採購的部分當然有主管機關就是由於各自身有需要你們就去採購 對不對"},{"start":118.515,"end":132.754,"text":"跟委員報告其實經濟部負責產業輔導有需要的人就去採購嘛那現在產業界需要的他是需要一個穩定的訂單我目前國內的這個無人機產業其實在技術能力上面我先請教你當然要訂單啊"},{"start":134.257,"end":148.959,"text":"剛剛有提到我們國內的產業有260幾家所以我本需要問 你自己都提到了那請問一下我們有沒有訂定這個軍用無人載具的採購國產化的比例目標有訂定出來嗎"},{"start":150.32,"end":162.723,"text":"目前來講我們是有對未來這個我們整個技術發展的一個軌跡啊藍圖的部分我們有設定因為國內還是有一些這樣子可以保障我們國內的產業嗎實質的保障嗎所以透過我們的這個這個缺口是哪部分技術包括一些我們的這個比方飛控飛控系統"},{"start":172.406,"end":196.501,"text":"地面導控系統 籌載系統 通訊系統等等所以這樣子就可以對我們國內的無人載具的供應鏈有發展上的保障嗎當然當然 我們需要把整個區域你只要實質上的保障我們的產業才能夠在這方面做出民間的投資因為我們需要的是一個非紅供應鏈所有的零組件都一定要是在地"},{"start":197.472,"end":216.951,"text":"MIT的這個產品是好那我想請問一下那這樣子的話我們知道這個無人載具的最重要的原料就是稀土對不對在這個稀土出口的國家我們去買的吧出口國家大部分九成都在中國大陸我知道你們現在開始就跟美國"},{"start":218.312,"end":244.672,"text":"還有這個澳洲來採購了還有就是公園院也會將稀土的回收計畫讓我們的在稀土上有那個自給率的問題這自給率你們有沒有訂出來我們希望能夠在這個2030年齁能夠達到這個五成的這個自給率也就是說多少你們訂嗎五成的自給率五成大概多少公斤大概1500這個"},{"start":251.049,"end":268.08,"text":"所以你有1500就這個量就夠我們戰備出用了有儲備了我們目前其實還有一些跟美國跟澳洲這邊的一些合作未來我們在稀土的需求上面是應該在供給的部分應該是不會有太大問題"},{"start":269.759,"end":285.315,"text":"有關稀土的這個部分在無人機的一個部分是不是請從技術面稍微回答一下好 您請說其實在無人機上用到稀土的部分真的比較少其實我們用的副材反而是比較多"},{"start":285.835,"end":306.215,"text":"那這個負財技術在國內其實不管是金工中心也好或是中分業也好還有很多廠商也好他都有在做發展那稀土的部分可能都是在馬達的部分在跟池有關的部分那這個部分國內的確就是我們剛剛經濟部和市長講的比例其實就是我們要去滿足這部分的需求是這樣子"},{"start":307.071,"end":330.278,"text":"所以你這樣講的話稀土用量很少但是戰備的儲存我們還是要準備值的所以你的1500這個部分也要儲存著那但是剛剛我們國防部這邊來講到的話那表示說如果我們如果建軍備戰有迫切性跟那個時效性的話你們就會改用國外的是不是採購國外的"},{"start":332.079,"end":361.559,"text":"沒有因為我們跟經濟部合作剛剛經濟部也一直講我們對於我們缺口的部分都有做一些盤點那事實上我們採取這個特別預算也就是著重在國防自主的產業鏈的建構上面我們有很大的信心相當大的比例都是屬於國內可以自主的但是還是有一些剛剛提到的朋友說可能是非控通訊或者看干擾的這個部分還需要跟國外但是不能跟中國也就跟國外再做一些技術合作那最好這些技術能夠移轉"},{"start":362.179,"end":382.941,"text":"那這樣的話我們透過我們的需求來提又透過迭代創新來不斷的提升我們國內在無人機上面的能力那也這樣同時才能夠打入這個國際的供應鏈裡面所以顧部長你放心因為我們經濟部合走了很前面的都未從有這個商機的聯盟他的聯盟宗旨最重要最後一點就講到"},{"start":384.022,"end":399.769,"text":"要建立非紅的產業鏈所以不會有大陸的你放心那所有不足的地方我們還是需要往外採購啦但是何市長您答應的就是在國內的產業裡面我們有個走向哪些部分的話國內有的我們一定要在國內來採購好不好"},{"start":402.07,"end":417.696,"text":"剛剛我跟委員修正一下是公噸是噸公噸對我等你的單位數出來現在目前是1500公噸1500公噸就是我們儲備的戰略物資未來就是2022年所以1500公噸這不算少是是是顧部長這個稀土的需求也不算少"},{"start":419.257,"end":440.595,"text":"所以我們當然都要配合我們在無人機的部分我想我們的需求並不高那我們也盡量包括一些電池或者引擎的部分我們盡量去在國內然後我們也盡量去減少對稀土的這些依賴的一些技術的發展所以國內有的不要隨便改到國外去購買好不好 這要注意的"},{"start":441.195,"end":448.663,"text":"好那接下來要問的就是我們國發基金國發基金裡面我們現在已經有7加2的這個國發基金的專案項目那我們要發展輔導我們的產業能夠引領他來參加我們的民營來投資的話在這個無人機這個部分的話我們國發基金要不要編列專案基金"},{"start":463.742,"end":491.642,"text":"跟委員報告在無人機的這一個部分國發基金目前在這個直接投資創投跟剛所提到7加2的這個百億的基金都可以來投資所以我們不要再加一項怎麼十項用無人機這個部分啊都可以來投所以要不要加一項無人機的這個專案呢這個我們來研究來研議一下百億的基金讓我們的民間投資更有信心好不好好的 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:54:53.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:54:57.511000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請經濟部何次長、國防部顧部長還有國發會蕭處長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T10:54:57.511000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:55:01.773000+08:00","text":"請經濟部、國防部還有國發會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T10:55:01.773000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:55:06.035000+08:00","text":"呂委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:55:06.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:55:22.578000+08:00","text":"何次長，本席很懷疑，今天龔部長沒有來，但今天我們要討論的是無人載具產業發展，這跟經濟部高度相關，經濟部長沒有來，反而是國防部長有出席。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:55:23.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:55:50.492000+08:00","text":"很多人說無人機的採購不關經濟部的事，所以本席在這邊一定要提一下，我們有個臺灣卓越無人機海外商機聯盟，成立宗旨是要促進臺灣無人機產業的發展、凝聚共識、展現無人機產業決心、推動國際合作與市場拓展、建立非紅供應鏈。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:55:50.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:55:51.212000+08:00","text":"何次長，這個聯盟是誰在推動的？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:55:58.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:56:01.397000+08:00","text":"目前聯盟的主席是漢翔。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:56:01.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:56:02.538000+08:00","text":"是誰推動的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:56:02.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:56:03.839000+08:00","text":"是不是經濟部推動的？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:56:04.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:56:06.022000+08:00","text":"我們經濟部在背後支持。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:56:06.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:56:10.467000+08:00","text":"是啊，就是經濟部推動的，所以主管機關由經濟部來統籌，有什麼錯呢？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:56:11.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:56:41.593000+08:00","text":"而且無人載具這個產業我們經濟部走得非常前面，站在無人載具產業發展的立場，當然是由經濟部來主管，而且這個部分不只是軍用，還有商用，甚至我們要推向國際，只有經濟部統籌才可以做得到；至於採購的部分，當然有主管機關，自身有需要就去採購，對不對？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:56:43.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:56:45.718000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實經濟部負責產業輔導的工作。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:56:45.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:56:47.340000+08:00","text":"有需要的人就去採購嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:56:48.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:56:55.892000+08:00","text":"現在產業界需要的是穩定的訂單，目前國內的無人機產業其實在技術能力上……","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:56:56.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:57:13.538000+08:00","text":"何次長，我先請教你，當然要訂單啊，剛剛有提到我們國內的產業有二百六十幾家，你自己都提到了，請問一下，你們有沒有訂出軍用無人載具採購國產化的比例目標？","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:57:15.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:57:24.523000+08:00","text":"目前來講，我們對未來整個技術發展的軌跡、藍圖部分有設定，因為國內還是有一些無人機產業的技術缺口。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:57:24.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:57:25.643000+08:00","text":"這樣子可以保障我們國內的產業嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:57:25.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:57:25.823000+08:00","text":"有實質的保障嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:57:25.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:57:25.983000+08:00","text":"所以透過我們的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:57:26.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:57:26.823000+08:00","text":"這個缺口是哪部分，技術？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:57:27.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:57:40.808000+08:00","text":"比方說飛控系統、地面導控系統、酬載系統、通訊系統等等，這些都是我們需要輔導的。","quality":0.618},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:57:40.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:57:48.153000+08:00","text":"所以這樣就可以對我們國內無人載具的供應鏈有發展上的保障？當然！會喔？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:57:49.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:57:50.114000+08:00","text":"我們需要把整個缺口都補齊。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:57:50.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:57:56.818000+08:00","text":"好，你只要有實質上的保障，我們的產業才能夠在這方面做出民間的投資。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:57:56.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:58:03.292000+08:00","text":"是，因為我們需要的是一個非紅供應鏈，所有的零組件都一定要是在地、MIT的產品。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:58:04.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:58:13.042000+08:00","text":"好，我想請問一下，我們知道無人載具最重要的原料就是稀土，對不對？是。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:58:13.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:58:36.062000+08:00","text":"我們跟稀土出口國家購買的話，九成都在中國大陸，我知道你們現在開始有跟美國還有澳洲採購了，還有工研院也有稀土回收計畫，而我們在稀土上有自給率的問題，這個自給率你們有沒有訂出來？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:58:36.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:58:44.568000+08:00","text":"我們希望能夠在2030年達到五成的自給率，也就是說……多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:58:44.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:58:46.049000+08:00","text":"你們有訂嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:58:46.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:58:47.270000+08:00","text":"五成的自給率。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:58:48.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:58:49.231000+08:00","text":"五成大概多少公斤？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:58:49.231000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T10:58:56.049000+08:00","text":"應該是1,500公斤。","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:58:56.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:59:00.211000+08:00","text":"所以你有1,500公斤就夠我們戰備儲用了？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T10:59:00.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:59:13.080000+08:00","text":"我們目前其實還有一些跟美國、澳洲的合作，未來我們在稀土的需求上面，在供給部分應該不會有太大的問題。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T10:59:14.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:59:23.267000+08:00","text":"委員，有關稀土在無人機的部分，是不是請中科院從技術面稍微回答一下？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:59:23.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:59:24.709000+08:00","text":"好，你請說。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"李院長世強","start":"2026-07-16T10:59:24.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:59:30.295000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實在無人機上用到稀土真的比較少，我們用的複材反而比較多。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"李院長世強","start":"2026-07-16T10:59:31.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T10:59:50.714000+08:00","text":"關於複材技術在國內部分，不管是金工中心、中科院還有很多廠商都有在做發展；而稀土可能都是在馬達的部分、跟磁有關的部分，這個部分國內的確就是……剛剛經濟部何次長講的比例其實就是我們要去滿足這一部分的需求。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T10:59:52.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:00:00.634000+08:00","text":"你們講稀土用量很少，但是戰備的儲存我們還是要準備著，所以1,500這個部分也要儲存著。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:00:01.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:00:15.258000+08:00","text":"但是剛剛國防部講到，這樣表示如果建軍備戰有迫切性跟時效性的話，你們就會改用國外的、採購國外的，是不是？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T11:00:17.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:00:33.530000+08:00","text":"沒有，因為我們跟經濟部合作，剛剛經濟部也一直講，我們對於缺口的部分都有做一些盤點，事實上採取這個特別預算，也就是著重在國防自主產業鏈的建構上面，我們有很大的信心，相當大的比例都是屬於國內可以自主的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T11:00:33.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:00:44.777000+08:00","text":"但還是有一些剛剛提到的，有時候可能飛控、通訊，或者抗干擾的部分還需要跟國外，但是不能跟中國，是跟其他國家再做一些技術合作。","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T11:00:45.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:00:57.570000+08:00","text":"最好這些技術能夠移轉，這樣透過我們的需求，並用迭代創新不斷地提升我們國內在無人機上面的能力，這樣同時才能夠打入國際的供應鏈。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:00:58.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:01:16.706000+08:00","text":"顧部長放心，因為我們經濟部走得很前面，未雨綢繆有商機的聯盟，聯盟宗旨最重要在最後一點就有講到要建立非紅的產業鏈，所以不會有大陸的，你放心，因此有不足的地方，我們還是需要往外採購。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:01:17.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:01:24.749000+08:00","text":"但是何次長，您要答應在國內的產業裡面要有個走向，即哪些部分國內有的，我們一定要在國內採購，好不好？是，好。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T11:01:27.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:01:30.992000+08:00","text":"我跟委員修正一下，剛剛單位是公噸。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:01:30.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:01:32.532000+08:00","text":"對，我等你的單位數出來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T11:01:32.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:01:34.093000+08:00","text":"目前是1,500公噸。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:01:34.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:01:36.594000+08:00","text":"這是我們儲備的戰略物資。未來2030……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:01:37.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:01:40.375000+08:00","text":"所以1,500公噸不算少耶！是。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:01:40.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:01:42.676000+08:00","text":"顧部長，這個稀土的需求也不算少啦！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:01:44.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:01:45.237000+08:00","text":"所以我們當然都要配合。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T11:01:45.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:02.012000+08:00","text":"我說在無人機的部分，稀土的需求並不高，包括一些電池或者引擎的部分，我們儘量在國內找，然後也儘量去研發減少對稀土依賴的一些技術發展。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:02.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:04.654000+08:00","text":"好，所以國內有的不要隨便改到國外去購買，好不好？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:05.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:05.575000+08:00","text":"這是要注意的。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:06.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:08.638000+08:00","text":"好，接下來要問的就是我們國發基金。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:08.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:13.643000+08:00","text":"國發基金裡面現在已經有七加二國發基金的專案項目，我們要發展輔導產業，能夠引領民營來參加、來投資的話，在無人機這個部分，國發基金要不要編列專案基金？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:28.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:42.392000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，在無人機的部分，國發基金目前在直接投資、創投，跟剛剛提到七加二百億的基金，都可以來投資，所以它雖然不到一個專案基金……","quality":0.754},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:42.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:44.934000+08:00","text":"要不要再加一項，總共十項？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:44.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:46.055000+08:00","text":"用在無人機這個部分啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:46.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:46.915000+08:00","text":"都可以來投。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:47.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:49.477000+08:00","text":"要不要再加一項無人機的專案呢？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:49.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:50.938000+08:00","text":"這個我們來研究，好不好？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:51.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:51.939000+08:00","text":"研議一下。是。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"呂委員玉玲","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:52.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:56.162000+08:00","text":"百億的基金，讓我們的民間投資更有信心，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:56.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:56.642000+08:00","text":"好的，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:57.142000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:59.142000+08:00","text":"謝謝呂玉玲委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:59.442000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:03:01.727714+08:00","text":"我們現在休息10分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T11:03:02.027714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:03:03.170571+08:00","text":"休息（11時3分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T11:03:03.470571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:03:05.184857+08:00","text":"繼續開會（11時14分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T11:03:05.484857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:03:08.342000+08:00","text":"我們現在會議繼續進行。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T11:03:08.642000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:03:12.356286+08:00","text":"接下來我們請林楚茵委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":587,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（10時54分）謝謝主席，請經濟部何次長、國防部顧部長還有國發會蕭處長。"],["主席：請經濟部、國防部還有國發會。"],["顧部長立雄：呂委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：何次長，本席很懷疑，今天龔部長沒有來，但今天我們要討論的是無人載具產業發展，這跟經濟部高度相關，經濟部長沒有來，反而是國防部長有出席。很多人說無人機的採購不關經濟部的事，所以本席在這邊一定要提一下，我們有個臺灣卓越無人機海外商機聯盟，成立宗旨是要促進臺灣無人機產業的發展、凝聚共識、展現無人機產業決心、推動國際合作與市場拓展、建立非紅供應鏈。何次長，這個聯盟是誰在推動的？"],["何次長晉滄：目前聯盟的主席是漢翔。"],["呂委員玉玲：是誰推動的？是不是經濟部推動的？"],["何次長晉滄：我們經濟部在背後支持。"],["呂委員玉玲：是啊，就是經濟部推動的，所以主管機關由經濟部來統籌，有什麼錯呢？而且無人載具這個產業我們經濟部走得非常前面，站在無人載具產業發展的立場，當然是由經濟部來主管，而且這個部分不只是軍用，還有商用，甚至我們要推向國際，只有經濟部統籌才可以做得到；至於採購的部分，當然有主管機關，自身有需要就去採購，對不對？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，其實經濟部負責產業輔導的工作。"],["呂委員玉玲：有需要的人就去採購嘛！"],["何次長晉滄：現在產業界需要的是穩定的訂單，目前國內的無人機產業其實在技術能力上……"],["呂委員玉玲：何次長，我先請教你，當然要訂單啊，剛剛有提到我們國內的產業有二百六十幾家，你自己都提到了，請問一下，你們有沒有訂出軍用無人載具採購國產化的比例目標？"],["何次長晉滄：目前來講，我們對未來整個技術發展的軌跡、藍圖部分有設定，因為國內還是有一些無人機產業的技術缺口。"],["呂委員玉玲：這樣子可以保障我們國內的產業嗎？有實質的保障嗎？"],["何次長晉滄：所以透過我們的……"],["呂委員玉玲：這個缺口是哪部分，技術？"],["何次長晉滄：比方說飛控系統、地面導控系統、酬載系統、通訊系統等等，這些都是我們需要輔導的。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以這樣就可以對我們國內無人載具的供應鏈有發展上的保障？"],["何次長晉滄：當然！"],["呂委員玉玲：會喔？"],["何次長晉滄：我們需要把整個缺口都補齊。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，你只要有實質上的保障，我們的產業才能夠在這方面做出民間的投資。"],["何次長晉滄：是，因為我們需要的是一個非紅供應鏈，所有的零組件都一定要是在地、MIT的產品。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，我想請問一下，我們知道無人載具最重要的原料就是稀土，對不對？"],["何次長晉滄：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：我們跟稀土出口國家購買的話，九成都在中國大陸，我知道你們現在開始有跟美國還有澳洲採購了，還有工研院也有稀土回收計畫，而我們在稀土上有自給率的問題，這個自給率你們有沒有訂出來？"],["何次長晉滄：我們希望能夠在2030年達到五成的自給率，也就是說……"],["呂委員玉玲：多少？你們有訂嗎？"],["何次長晉滄：五成的自給率。"],["呂委員玉玲：五成大概多少公斤？"],["何次長晉滄：應該是1,500公斤。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你有1,500公斤就夠我們戰備儲用了？"],["何次長晉滄：我們目前其實還有一些跟美國、澳洲的合作，未來我們在稀土的需求上面，在供給部分應該不會有太大的問題。"],["顧部長立雄：委員，有關稀土在無人機的部分，是不是請中科院從技術面稍微回答一下？"],["呂委員玉玲：好，你請說。"],["李院長世強：跟委員報告，其實在無人機上用到稀土真的比較少，我們用的複材反而比較多。關於複材技術在國內部分，不管是金工中心、中科院還有很多廠商都有在做發展；而稀土可能都是在馬達的部分、跟磁有關的部分，這個部分國內的確就是……剛剛經濟部何次長講的比例其實就是我們要去滿足這一部分的需求。"],["呂委員玉玲：你們講稀土用量很少，但是戰備的儲存我們還是要準備著，所以1,500這個部分也要儲存著。但是剛剛國防部講到，這樣表示如果建軍備戰有迫切性跟時效性的話，你們就會改用國外的、採購國外的，是不是？"],["顧部長立雄：沒有，因為我們跟經濟部合作，剛剛經濟部也一直講，我們對於缺口的部分都有做一些盤點，事實上採取這個特別預算，也就是著重在國防自主產業鏈的建構上面，我們有很大的信心，相當大的比例都是屬於國內可以自主的。但還是有一些剛剛提到的，有時候可能飛控、通訊，或者抗干擾的部分還需要跟國外，但是不能跟中國，是跟其他國家再做一些技術合作。最好這些技術能夠移轉，這樣透過我們的需求，並用迭代創新不斷地提升我們國內在無人機上面的能力，這樣同時才能夠打入國際的供應鏈。"],["呂委員玉玲：顧部長放心，因為我們經濟部走得很前面，未雨綢繆有商機的聯盟，聯盟宗旨最重要在最後一點就有講到要建立非紅的產業鏈，所以不會有大陸的，你放心，因此有不足的地方，我們還是需要往外採購。但是何次長，您要答應在國內的產業裡面要有個走向，即哪些部分國內有的，我們一定要在國內採購，好不好？"],["何次長晉滄：是，好。我跟委員修正一下，剛剛單位是公噸。"],["呂委員玉玲：對，我等你的單位數出來。"],["何次長晉滄：目前是1,500公噸。"],["呂委員玉玲：這是我們儲備的戰略物資。"],["何次長晉滄：未來2030……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以1,500公噸不算少耶！"],["何次長晉滄：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：顧部長，這個稀土的需求也不算少啦！所以我們當然都要配合。"],["顧部長立雄：我說在無人機的部分，稀土的需求並不高，包括一些電池或者引擎的部分，我們儘量在國內找，然後也儘量去研發減少對稀土依賴的一些技術發展。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，所以國內有的不要隨便改到國外去購買，好不好？這是要注意的。","好，接下來要問的就是我們國發基金。國發基金裡面現在已經有七加二國發基金的專案項目，我們要發展輔導產業，能夠引領民營來參加、來投資的話，在無人機這個部分，國發基金要不要編列專案基金？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：跟委員報告，在無人機的部分，國發基金目前在直接投資、創投，跟剛剛提到七加二百億的基金，都可以來投資，所以它雖然不到一個專案基金……"],["呂委員玉玲：要不要再加一項，總共十項？用在無人機這個部分啊！"],["汪執行秘書庭安：都可以來投。"],["呂委員玉玲：要不要再加一項無人機的專案呢？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：這個我們來研究，好不好？"],["呂委員玉玲：研議一下。"],["汪執行秘書庭安：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：百億的基金，讓我們的民間投資更有信心，好不好？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：好的，謝謝。"],["呂委員玉玲：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝呂玉玲委員。","我們現在休息10分鐘。","休息（11時3分）","繼續開會（11時14分）"],["主席：我們現在會議繼續進行。","接下來我們請林楚茵委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-5-19,35,20-1","speakers":["洪毓祥","林楚茵","林沛祥","王安祥","陳亭妃","賴士葆","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","王義川","呂玉玲","劉書彬","王定宇","謝衣鳯","鍾佳濱","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","郭國文","陳永康","蔡易餘","陳超明","邱志偉","李彥秀","鄭正鈐","馬文君","牛煦庭","黃建賓","李坤城","陳冠廷","羅明才","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","羅美玲","林德福","林思銘","傅崐萁","張嘉郡","蘇清泉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1156401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查：一、行政院函請審議「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案；二、本院委員林楚\n茵等17人擬具「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「強化\n國防自主暨無人機產業發展條例草案」案；四、本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防自主無人載具科技發\n展及採購條例草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156401_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}