{"error":false,"id":["170512"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170512,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170512","日期":"2026-07-16","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-5-19,35,20-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[19,35,20],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會","外交及國防委員會","財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-16T11:22:48+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-16T11:31:55+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:07","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c57864e9296d47752a147aaeed920f1d1ac734a26d834dc4cd2db9a171d41d2c0be9ff9e72e124835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉書彬","委員發言時間":"11:22:48 - 11:31:55","會議時間":"2026-07-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查：\n一、\t行政院函請審議「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案。\n二、\t本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案。\n三、\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「強化國防自主暨無人機產業發展條例草案」案。\n四、\t本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例草案」案。(僅詢答)(以上各案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查)）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":3.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13.31159375,"end":18.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18.610343750000002,"end":19.032218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.91409375,"end":21.934718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.875343750000003,"end":24.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25.12409375,"end":96.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":96.55596875,"end":101.11221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.85471875,"end":106.81596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.01846875000001,"end":114.35909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.40971875000001,"end":115.69221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.01284375,"end":121.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.02034375000001,"end":124.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.66971875,"end":130.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.13284375,"end":132.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.68534375000002,"end":135.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.63846875000002,"end":137.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.74784375000002,"end":140.27909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":140.41409375,"end":141.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":141.66284375,"end":145.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":145.91534375,"end":147.82221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.76721875,"end":153.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.94784375,"end":154.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.84221875,"end":156.20909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.58034375,"end":158.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.53784375,"end":159.65159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.03971875000002,"end":161.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.99721875,"end":163.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.27534375000002,"end":164.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":164.95034375,"end":167.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.73909375000002,"end":173.55659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":173.23596875,"end":174.77159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":173.55659375000002,"end":173.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.31159375000001,"end":194.54909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":194.88659375,"end":203.02034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":203.44221875000002,"end":209.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":209.97284375,"end":216.52034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":215.54159375,"end":216.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":216.43596875,"end":232.95659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.31534375,"end":240.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":241.07346875000002,"end":253.66221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.33284375000002,"end":256.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.08784375,"end":258.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.06221875,"end":263.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.95596875,"end":266.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.52096875,"end":274.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.19909375000003,"end":274.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.38034375,"end":282.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.45096875,"end":283.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":283.78409375,"end":286.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.50534375,"end":292.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.91346875,"end":306.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":301.08096875,"end":302.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":304.84409375,"end":331.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.31159375000004,"end":310.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.66596875000005,"end":310.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.84409375,"end":345.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":343.52159375,"end":357.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.21971875,"end":377.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":376.05659375000005,"end":378.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":378.65534375000004,"end":379.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.67221875,"end":379.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.98846875000004,"end":389.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":389.47221875,"end":395.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.80034375,"end":398.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":398.02784375000005,"end":405.06471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.66409375,"end":404.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.08596875,"end":404.10284375000003},{"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有請國防部長 經濟部次長還有國發基金的執行長好 請經濟部 國防部跟國發基金"},{"start":24.222,"end":34.989,"text":"是 劉委員好好 部長好我們今天來聯席審查國防自主無人載具的特別採購條例那我們看到這是2100億的這個特別預算是以行政院版來講的它希望是建構到不對稱的戰力並打造的飛鴻供應鏈我們都支持但是支持國防自主並不代表要放棄這個"},{"start":47.957,"end":55.199,"text":"預算的監督啦 我們更關心的是是不是能夠有自主的這樣韌性的無人機產業那我們現在知道的話是目前的無人機呢產業台灣在台灣的部分呢有世界級的半導體資通訊還有PCB的極光電供應鏈的這個優勢但是在高效率的馬達電子變速器還有高能量的密度電池以及"},{"start":74.284,"end":100.928,"text":"GNSS抗干擾模組的關鍵零組件當中能有相當程度是依賴國外供應我們想要問的是請教是先可能是次長或者是部長就是在關鍵零組件這邊對於剛才所說的有沒有去做這個零組件的這個關鍵的自主能力的盤點這部分包括是馬達ESC還有GNSS的部分"},{"start":102.132,"end":123.989,"text":"跟委員報告 其實剛剛委員講的很對就是說我們有一些技術的缺口這些技術缺口我們都把它盤點出來而且我們有一個關鍵技術開發的路徑從114年我們就用科技專案來跟業者一起來做開發透過法人 工研院等等那當然國防部這邊他會把需求告訴我們"},{"start":124.73,"end":147.603,"text":"那我們也會就國安部需求裡面所必須要求的這些技術關鍵的技術關鍵的零組件的部分如果業界還沒有辦法達到這個程度的話我們就透過這樣的科專補助的機制我們來協助業者來提升能量好 那我請問一下目前的這個國產化的這幾個關鍵技術的國產化的比例是多少"},{"start":149.283,"end":172.881,"text":"我們在這個專案報告裡面有提到我們有分小型、中型還有大型我們小型的無人機的國產化比例大概七成左右那中型大概六成那大型的話我們大概目前大概只有三成左右的比例好那我們就更要想要關心的是說中科院的部分也可以因為它的發展也跟在地的產業院的行程有一些關係好那請補充"},{"start":175.579,"end":191.559,"text":"我就拿那個我們的近鋒一型攻擊無人機來講它原本在國內的產製的比例是95%只差了5%是通信的部分那這個通信的部分我們也已經輔導國外的廠商落地在台生產了所以它現在的全自製比例就是100%"},{"start":192.6,"end":208.319,"text":"那剛剛委員提到的第一個高能量密度的電池的確在兩年之前這是我們國內比較缺陷的地方但是在經濟部的客栓補助之後我們現在其實我們用的高能量電池幾乎都是我們自己的另外我們從今年開始也在經濟部的統籌型計畫裡面"},{"start":210.177,"end":231.354,"text":"獲得了10.8億的預算這10.8億都在發展GNSS Denied的技術所以請委員放心那我想要更清楚的是說因為在GNSS當然很重要啦但是在整個條例當中我們好像沒有看到說他的這個研發的還有設計的經費這次有在這經費上面就已經就沒有在這一次還是說在經濟部裡面的"},{"start":233.055,"end":253.722,"text":"都編列在我們的統籌型計畫裡面那我們透過科技專案來跟法人還有跟業界來合作好那這樣子可以理解那另外我們看到是在遇到因為國防部一直強調說暫時的快速擴產但是如果說我們遇到的是在暫時遇到封鎖的時候這個快速擴產有沒有一些具體的配套措施暫時的能夠擴產的基礎"},{"start":259.133,"end":273.718,"text":"就是我們不需要仰賴外部的一個供應因為我們是一個海島型的國家我們的眾生比烏克蘭還要淺所以我們當然要能夠建立在無人採集這一塊能夠完全自主在地生產這是我們的目標那也許還有一些"},{"start":275.459,"end":302.373,"text":"尤其有一些高階它也許能量還不足那正是我們用透過這個長年的這個一個長單所以是國外購買的嗎我們長年的長單來促使這個廠商願意跟國外技術合作然後最後能夠落地這就剛剛鍾柯燕也有提到的這是我們現在想要達到的一些目標那因為這個無人載具的部分都迭代創新的很快我知道所以要用這個長單"},{"start":303.733,"end":307.175,"text":"這個效應來促使他願意投入更多但是我現在想到是國發基金的這個紙密就看到的是一個近年看到說國發基金他也跟各部會投入到大量的資源到福祉無人機產業但是也發生過一個採購程序跟委託研究案遭到監察院糾正的這個案例請問政府是不是已經有全面的檢討過去這個補助案投資跟採購制度的缺失"},{"start":332.066,"end":355.526,"text":"跟委員報告國發基金的這個從投錢的評估投資中的這個審議投後的管理以及這個相關的這個機制都在大院的要求之下我們有提出了我們現在看到這個案子創未來的科技公司目前還在出現這部分他有沒有退場或者是這些或是已經達到企劃的是不是已經有真正量產這個資料是不是可以跟大家公布"},{"start":358.28,"end":362.002,"text":"是 我想創未來是幾個具有這個專業的幾個大學教授出來創那當時在這個我們在投資這個創未來的過程當中也是經過這個嚴格的審議那覺得說這一個部分對不管是但是三次都沒有過欸國防部審查沒有過欸"},{"start":380.211,"end":388.539,"text":"這一個部分我們必須要尊重這個國防部他在這個相關的這個驗收這個部分我們比較不便 國發基金比較不便來做評論好 可是你們應該檢討機制啊甚至是不是應該讓他退場就是以後不具備這個條件了"},{"start":395.854,"end":421.016,"text":"是我們這個會持續來watch這個部分是不是可以給本席一個報告就是說你們在處理這部分包括國防部在怎麼面對說他到底出現了什麼問題那為什麼可以三次如果說叫國發基金來講的話委員會管理會是說他們前面是具備這個條件可是最後三次不過這個很誇張了是不是請國防部這邊要針對國防部的部分就是我們是當時就是公開招標嘛"},{"start":421.476,"end":440.291,"text":"那公開招標之後他要能夠提出這個驗測能夠通過才能夠我們才會支付這個價錢嘛那他現在依合約他在交貨的時候要驗測然後另外再兩次復驗不過他就會進行解約然後會罰款然後也會沒收旅遊保證金"},{"start":441.172,"end":468.457,"text":"好 這個制度看起來是有建立起來的 是好的齁好 呃 不過簡單的再說一下吧因為我們本黨裡面的重點就是說它有導入到可信任的分級制度嘛還有包括說有懲罰性的賠償跟落實房幣像剛才 部長你有提到說他們因為每次階段性的在如果他們驗收過就是不付費嘛 對不對但是他已經延宕了我國的這樣無人機的發展是不是要考慮到說有些賠償的機制當然鼓勵是鼓勵的 但是賠償的機制是不是要考慮到"},{"start":471.018,"end":480.392,"text":"就1月1月會來進行計法那個他的預期的一個違約金另外他的旅遊保證金會全部沒入"},{"start":481.941,"end":504.994,"text":"對 但是那個這個就是已經是讓他有到懲罰的效果了嗎是不是還有叫做這個比較巨額性的就是讓他有懲罰性的一種賠償因為他影響到國家的我想這個部分就是依合約來走嘛因為合約的相關的規範已經包括我們沒有支付任何企業的價金啊對 我的意思是因為他已經延宕了我們無人機發展的"},{"start":509.417,"end":529.196,"text":"成果所以這部分我的意思就是要有懲罰性的賠償這部分是不是可以在未來契約當中去做考慮我想我們預期的違約金已經在合約裡面已經有寫了然後另外我們也有沒入這個履約保證金這個應該就是屬於相關的這些賠償的部分"},{"start":530.285,"end":542.976,"text":"好我看起來國防部是就是說你會保證金就是把他沒收掉讓他也是有損失啊還有預期的那個罰款啊OK預期的罰款好所以希望說這個罰款也是能夠讓他知道說那個那個痛是讓他有損失是要夠的好謝謝好謝謝謝偉好謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}