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我要講就是說"},{"start":149.722,"end":174.76,"text":"十項公投這個是可以說百年一役啦要等到什麼時候還有整個社會沸騰等一下周委你有一點搞錯我問的方向我現在不是在講2018誰對誰錯啦我現在是講說如果這一次就算有很多公投中選會的態度應該是就行政補強就像你舉天災例子嘛921那個天災過去的建築法規的規定很多房子可能在房政要求沒有那麼高"},{"start":175.12,"end":188.439,"text":"後來我們也更改法規啊所以現在防證要求是多的啊那你2018發生這樣的事情那你現在如果面對一樣公投的數量我中學會怎麼去因應嘛而不是告訴大家說三個我受不了啦所以你們少提點你不能這樣啦"},{"start":191.543,"end":203.187,"text":"我們現在我們從2004年開始才有公投綁大選嘛之前通通沒有嘛我所說的就是說我們如何汲取2018的慘痛的經驗教訓"},{"start":208.568,"end":225.653,"text":"好像只能提三個一樣不然我就受不了啦我是在建議我建議啦你這受不了了大家就會覺得我覺得社會應該思考這個問題不要光想這個公投如何如何或者是選務如何如何現在是兩個結論"},{"start":228.014,"end":255.465,"text":"我是覺得該提就提啦該提就提 那中選會就是要因應 這第一個點第二點 我看到民進黨的我們站在選委的立場 我們必須要很客觀的來告訴我們第二點啦 我已經表達了 那主委我希望您可以聽進去第二個就是 我看到民進黨的黨團說說現在在野黨提很多公投啊 中選會要嚴格把關啊要嚴審啊什麼 下指導旗啊"},{"start":256.385,"end":276.122,"text":"這個主委你會受到民進黨黨團的壓力嗎我們絕對超然公正中立中學生大家要期待客觀然後再來我想延續上一次我跟你們的詢答因為今天我們在討論是選舉的秩序我們最近一次大選就是去年的罷免我就舉去年罷免的案例"},{"start":277.043,"end":304.745,"text":"那這個案例我上次也問過 你們請警政署一起上來好不好我就用這個案例來詢問 假設這一次發生一樣的事情這個是 講一下 這是上一次罷免的時候 在我那個選區出現的狀況在投開票所外 就有看到應該這是罷團的志工 或是罷團我不知道啦謝謝你們 然後放了一個這個LOGO 右下角那個LOGO那個LOGO是什麼呢 我幫大家回顧一下 這就是罷免娃娃"},{"start":306.164,"end":320.8,"text":"罷免娃娃在投票當天投開票所外面舉牌子放的是罷免娃娃這很清楚這就好比說郵主以前選舉過嗎你可不可以叫你的志工在投票當天放你的照片"},{"start":321.681,"end":335.675,"text":"也許不寫游鷹籠 但是呢就放你的照片可以這樣子嗎那一天主委給我的答案是模擬兩可模擬兩可 說啊這個我們要查一下啊看一下這個什麼離投開票所多近啊 不敢回答"},{"start":336.858,"end":360.103,"text":"但是後來你們有回文啊你們回文有一點就寫得非常清楚公職人員選舉罷免法第56條第二款規定政黨及任何人不得在投票日從事競選、助選或罷免活動很顯然在投開票所外面放罷免娃娃這是不是活動?是不是選舉活動?主委是不是?"},{"start":361.258,"end":369.084,"text":"當然是啊是好那我為什麼請警政署來呢因為那一天這個事情呢我的支持者有當下去報警"},{"start":370.587,"end":387.093,"text":"我想問署長 正常的SOP如果今天有人選舉然後他的志工在投票當天放他的照片在投票標準門口如果有人報警 警察到現場怎麼處理那我們會了解這個現場的狀況 授證完之後會不會辦我們有選監小組跟檢察官我們會依法來授證會不會辦嗎會處理那你知道那一天怎麼處理嗎"},{"start":394.318,"end":396.619,"text":"警察到了現場說確認一下沒有什麼問題請他離開可以這樣子嗎"},{"start":405.068,"end":425.805,"text":"剛剛主委已經講了 主委說這個很明顯是有選舉行為 也有報警了 警察到現場說沒有問題請他離開我們應該是會依法處理 那為什麼沒有依法處理你去查一下這個有沒有立案好不好 就是沒有啊 就沒有嘛所以這就一個很明顯的放水嘛 大免的放水"},{"start":427.386,"end":438.023,"text":"那如果今年1128我就問啦1128那如果又有候選人做一樣的狀況有人報警警察到現場一樣看一看沒有請他離開嗎會這樣子嗎"},{"start":440.712,"end":459.553,"text":"還是會立案那我們一定會依法來處理啦依法嘛 那是怎麼樣是依法嘛 請他離開叫依法還是說至少要留一下名字然後請公主會討論一下這個有沒有有沒有選舉的行為然後再做出一個處分有問題的處分或沒問題的處分 是怎麼樣"},{"start":460.194,"end":478.171,"text":"是 那因為這個有牽涉到可能就是我現在簡單講一下啦就是說選票法的規定裡面投票票所當時有30公尺內移內移內的跟以外的這個行為啦這個是另外的問題你不能在離投票當中那遇到這個狀況如果說因為看到這個狀況如果說是瞬間來有經過勸導有經過制止他已經就離開沒有這個行為那當然可能就是有一些"},{"start":487.539,"end":514.792,"text":"主委我現在講的是當天能不能從事選舉活動如果今天有一個人他PO了一個臉書要現場選舉當天他的志工說請自治調查然後你勸導他他嚇下來他就沒事了嗎依選報法的規定是不能從事這些的規定不行嘛對嘛那為什麼沒有就是請他離開呢為什麼那我們應該是會沒有就沒有嘛不然你先去查嘛好啦我們來了解對不對我再秀一下照片給你看好不好幫我再秀一下"},{"start":515.697,"end":542.045,"text":"投票當天謝謝你們放一個罷免娃娃謝謝你們投罷免嘛那這個警察就請他離開了主委請問一下中選會主委是可以這樣子嗎這個就是哪個案不要說今年到11月28號一樣對不對拿一個照片然後說你趕快離開趕快離開我當面看到就好可以這樣子嗎"},{"start":543.055,"end":557.851,"text":"那我們今天我們也已經正式新聞給你我們的態度不可以嘛所以這就是執行面的問題嘛那署長請你去了解一下好了那希望128不要再出現類似的狀況可以嗎好 謝謝署長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:29.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:29.968000+08:00","text":"主席好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:31.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:31.719000+08:00","text":"麻煩請中選會主委。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:31.719000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:36.710500+08:00","text":"麻煩游主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:36.710500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:41.702000+08:00","text":"葉委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:41.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:52.990000+08:00","text":"主委，先來問一下，因為今年年底可能會選舉綁大選、綁公投，我看到主委呼籲一個恰恰好、兩個有點多、三個受不了。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:02:54.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:02:56.253000+08:00","text":"主委同時也幫2018年中選會的同仁抱屈，因為那個時候連續10個民間的連署通通成案。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:03:03.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:03:14.443000+08:00","text":"我覺得你現在等於是幫公投設了一個框架，就好像是說公投不要太多，太多中選會受不了，所以也可能會出現2018年的狀況。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:03:14.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:03:33.875000+08:00","text":"我自己是覺得這有點因噎廢食，按照民進黨過去推公投的那種強烈動機，過去民進黨的前輩為了公投而上街頭，那麼努力在推，結果現在居然說因為中選會可能負荷不了，所以公投就不要太多。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:03:34.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:03:40.560000+08:00","text":"我現在還沒有講到公投的實質內容，我覺得這樣的態度是因噎廢食，就好比為了不要出車禍，大家不要開車就好。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:03:41.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:03:57.125000+08:00","text":"重點應該是中選會怎麼去面對，就是你們要想說可能會很多，中選會要怎麼去解決這個問題，而不是因為會很多，所以最好少投一點，這個不是民主國家應有的思維方式。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:04:01.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:04:08.728000+08:00","text":"你要解決這個問題，不是叫大家少提一點，而是想辦法就行政上面來解決，主委，不知道你怎麼看？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:04:09.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:04:16.020000+08:00","text":"我覺得把所有的問題歸諸行政，這叫做行政萬能，這可能也不見得對。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:04:16.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:04:17.160000+08:00","text":"那就是政府的問題啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:04:18.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:04:22.242000+08:00","text":"就像現在油的問題，你說政府人力不足，所以不能怪政府，一樣的態度嘛！","quality":0.655},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:04:22.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:04:40.369000+08:00","text":"葉委員，你也見多識廣，我舉一個例子，當卡崔娜颶風摧毀美國大城市紐奧良的時候，就怪紐奧良整個建築太差、水道設備不好，人民……","quality":0.717},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:04:40.369000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:04:41.369000+08:00","text":"主委，我知道你的意思。","quality":0},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:04:40.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:04:40.650000+08:00","text":"我要講的意思是……","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:04:40.650000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:04:51.142000+08:00","text":"我知道你的意思……","quality":0},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:04:51.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:04:58.247000+08:00","text":"10項公投可以說是百年一遇，要等到什麼時候，還有整個社會沸騰……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:04:58.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:05:00.529000+08:00","text":"等一下，主委，你有點搞錯我問的方向。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:05:00.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:05:08.295000+08:00","text":"我現在不是在講2018年誰對誰錯，我現在是講如果這一次就算有很多公投，中選會的態度應該是就行政來補強。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:05:08.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:05:19.265000+08:00","text":"就像你舉天災的例子，921是天災，過去建築法規的規定，很多房子的防震要求沒有那麼高，後來我們也更改法規，所以現在對防震要求是很多的。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:05:20.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:05:25.193000+08:00","text":"2018年發生這樣的事情，你現在如果面對一樣公投的數量，中選會怎麼去因應？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:05:25.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:05:29.419000+08:00","text":"而不是告訴大家說3個我受不了，所以你們少提一點，你不能這樣啦！","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:05:29.419000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:05:33.823000+08:00","text":"葉委員，你誤解我的意思。","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:05:33.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:05:44.187000+08:00","text":"我們從2004年開始才有公投綁大選，之前通通沒有，我所說的是，我們如何汲取2018年的慘痛經驗教訓，然後讓……","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:05:49.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:05:51.469000+08:00","text":"因為你說3個受不了，好像只能提3個一樣，不然你就受不了。","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:05:51.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:05:54.029000+08:00","text":"我是在建議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:05:54.029000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:05:55.029000+08:00","text":"不是，你的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:05:54.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:05:56.190000+08:00","text":"我是建議……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:05:56.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:05:58.151000+08:00","text":"你說受不了，那麼大家就會覺得……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:05:58.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:06:06.653000+08:00","text":"我是建議，我覺得社會應該思考這個問題，不要光想公投如何，或者是選務如何，現在是兩個已經綁在一起。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:06:06.653000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:06:09.014000+08:00","text":"沒有啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:06:09.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:06:14.576000+08:00","text":"我是覺得公投該提就提，中選會就是要因應，這是第一個點。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:06:14.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:06:15.476000+08:00","text":"第二個點，我看到民進黨的……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:06:15.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:06:21.099000+08:00","text":"站在選務的立場，我們必須要很客觀地來告訴國人……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:06:22.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:06:26.001000+08:00","text":"我已經表達了，主委，我希望你可以聽進去。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:06:26.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:06:36.445000+08:00","text":"第二個，我看到民進黨黨團說現在在野黨提很多公投，中選會要嚴格把關、要嚴審，在下指導棋啊！","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:06:37.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:06:39.968000+08:00","text":"主委，你會受到民進黨黨團的壓力嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:06:39.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:06:43.291000+08:00","text":"我們絕對超然、公正、中立……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:06:43.291000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:06:44.311500+08:00","text":"對，中選會……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:06:44.311500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:06:45.332000+08:00","text":"客觀、專業。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:06:45.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:06:46.233000+08:00","text":"大家期待要客觀。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:06:47.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:06:57.102000+08:00","text":"再來，我想延續上一次我跟你的詢答，因為今天我們在討論的是選舉的秩序，我們最近一次大選就是去年的罷免，我就舉去年罷免的案例。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:06:58.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:07:00.825000+08:00","text":"這個案例我上次也問過你，我請警政署署長一起上來，好不好？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:07:01.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:07:04.428000+08:00","text":"我就用這個案例來詢問，假設這次發生一樣的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:07:06.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:07:22.662000+08:00","text":"我講一下，這是上次罷免時在我選區所出現的狀況，在投開票所外就有看到應該是罷團的志工或什麼，我不知道，舉「謝謝你們」的牌子，然後在右下角放了一個logo，那個logo是什麼呢？","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:07:22.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:07:25.725000+08:00","text":"我幫大家回顧一下，這就是罷免娃娃。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:07:28.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:07:47.866000+08:00","text":"投票當天在投開票所外面舉牌子，放的是罷免娃娃，這很清楚，這就好比……游主委以前也選舉過，你叫你的志工在投票當天放你的照片，也許不寫游盈隆，但是就放你的照片，可以這樣子嗎？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:07:47.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:07:56.655000+08:00","text":"那一天主委給我的答案是模稜兩可，說這個我們要查一下，看一下離投開票所多近，不敢回答。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:07:57.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:12.541000+08:00","text":"但是後來你們有回文，你們回文有一點就寫得非常清楚，公職人員選舉罷免法第五十六條第二款規定，政黨及任何人，不得在投票日從事競選、助選或罷免活動。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:12.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:20.643000+08:00","text":"很顯然，在投開票所外面放罷免娃娃，這是不是選舉活動？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:20.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:21.083000+08:00","text":"主委，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:22.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:22.458000+08:00","text":"當然是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:24.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:25.680000+08:00","text":"我為什麼請警政署署長來？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:25.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:30.063000+08:00","text":"因為那一天發生這個事情，我的支持者當下有去報警。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:31.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:42.891000+08:00","text":"我想問署長，正常的SOP，如果今天有人選舉，然後他的志工在投票當天放他的照片，舉在投開票所門口，假如有人報警，警察到現場會怎麼處理？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:43.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:45.212000+08:00","text":"我們會了解現場的狀況，蒐證完之後，如果……","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:45.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:45.392000+08:00","text":"會不會辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:45.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:45.932000+08:00","text":"我們有選監小組跟檢察官，會依法來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:46.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:46.212000+08:00","text":"會不會辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:46.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:46.212000+08:00","text":"會處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:46.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:48.093000+08:00","text":"你知道那一天怎麼處理嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:55.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:57.419000+08:00","text":"警察到了現場，確認一下說沒有什麼問題，請他離開。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:57.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:08:57.619000+08:00","text":"可以這樣子嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T11:08:57.619000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:06.068000+08:00","text":"這個部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:06.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:14.935000+08:00","text":"剛剛主委已經講了，主委說這個很明顯是有選舉行為，也有報警了，但警察到現場說沒有問題，請他離開。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:14.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:16.176000+08:00","text":"我們應該是會依法處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:16.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:17.337000+08:00","text":"為什麼沒有依法處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:18.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:19.859000+08:00","text":"你去查一下這個有沒有立案，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:19.859000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:20.859000+08:00","text":"我們來了解看看。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:19.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:20.840000+08:00","text":"就是沒有啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:20.840000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:21.840000+08:00","text":"再了解看看。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:21.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:22.341000+08:00","text":"就沒有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:23.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:26.785000+08:00","text":"所以這就是一個很明顯的放水，罷免的放水啊！","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:31.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:39.003000+08:00","text":"我就問，今年的1128如果又有候選人做出一樣的狀況，有人報警，警察到現場看一看，會一樣說沒有問題就請他離開嗎？","quality":0.761},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:39.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:39.023000+08:00","text":"會這樣子嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:41.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:41.992000+08:00","text":"還是會立案？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:43.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:44.836000+08:00","text":"我們一定會依法來處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:47.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:09:47.739000+08:00","text":"怎麼樣是依法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:09:48.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:10:00.553000+08:00","text":"請他離開是依法，還是說至少要留一下名字，請中選會討論一下這個有沒有選舉的行為，然後再作出一個有問題的處分或沒問題的處分，是怎麼樣？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T11:10:04.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:10:13.005000+08:00","text":"我現在簡單講一下，依據選罷法的規定，投開票所三十公尺以內有這個行為……","quality":0.742},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:10:13.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:10:16.008000+08:00","text":"這個是另外的問題，你不能在投票當天……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T11:10:16.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:10:19.151000+08:00","text":"對，要看狀況，如果那個瞬間經過勸導、經過制止，他已經離開，沒有這個行為了，當然可能就是有一些……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:10:28.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:10:31.560000+08:00","text":"沒有，不是，署長，我現在講的是當天能不能從事選舉活動？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:10:31.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:10:40.384000+08:00","text":"如果今天有一個人他po了臉書，比如選舉當天廖先翔的志工po說「請支持廖先翔」，然後你勸導他，他下架就沒事了嗎？","quality":0.694},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T11:10:40.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:10:42.685000+08:00","text":"依選罷法的規定，當天不能從事這些行為。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:10:43.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:10:46.007000+08:00","text":"對嘛，不行嘛，那為什麼沒有處理，就只是請他離開呢？","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:10:47.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:10:47.268000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T11:10:47.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:10:48.568000+08:00","text":"我們應該是會處理，我再來了解。","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:10:48.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:10:50.449000+08:00","text":"沒有就沒有嘛，不然你現在去查。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-16T11:10:50.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:10:51.670000+08:00","text":"好，我們來了解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:10:52.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:10:53.631000+08:00","text":"我再秀一張照片給你看。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:10:56.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:11:05.160000+08:00","text":"投票當天，有人手持圖卡寫「謝謝你們」，還放了一個罷免娃娃的圖，就是謝謝你們投罷免嘛，然後警察就請他離開了。","quality":0.674},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:11:07.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:11:13.202000+08:00","text":"請問中選會主委，可以這樣子嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:11:13.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:11:18.784000+08:00","text":"這是一個個案，不要說今年11月28號又發生，對不對？","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:11:18.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:11:23.045000+08:00","text":"有人拿一張照片，然後警察說你趕快離開，我當沒看到就好，可以這樣子嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"游主任委員盈隆","start":"2026-07-16T11:11:24.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:11:28.660000+08:00","text":"葉委員，我們已經正式行文給你了，我們的態度很清楚。","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:11:28.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:11:29.281000+08:00","text":"不可以，對嘛！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:11:29.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:11:32.124000+08:00","text":"所以這就是執行面的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:11:32.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:11:33.665000+08:00","text":"署長，請你去了解一下，好不好？好。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:11:34.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:11:38.510000+08:00","text":"希望1128不要再出現類似的狀況，可以嗎？好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-16T11:11:38.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:11:38.851000+08:00","text":"謝謝署長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T11:11:39.351000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:11:42.493857+08:00","text":"下一位請陳亭妃委員質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T11:11:42.793857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:11:47.651000+08:00","text":"陳亭妃委員，陳亭妃委員，陳亭妃委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T11:11:47.951000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:11:51.093857+08:00","text":"下一位請徐欣瑩委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":776,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時2分）主席好。麻煩請中選會主委。"],["主席：麻煩游主委。"],["游主任委員盈隆：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：主委，先來問一下，因為今年年底可能會選舉綁大選、綁公投，我看到主委呼籲一個恰恰好、兩個有點多、三個受不了。主委同時也幫2018年中選會的同仁抱屈，因為那個時候連續10個民間的連署通通成案。我覺得你現在等於是幫公投設了一個框架，就好像是說公投不要太多，太多中選會受不了，所以也可能會出現2018年的狀況。我自己是覺得這有點因噎廢食，按照民進黨過去推公投的那種強烈動機，過去民進黨的前輩為了公投而上街頭，那麼努力在推，結果現在居然說因為中選會可能負荷不了，所以公投就不要太多。","我現在還沒有講到公投的實質內容，我覺得這樣的態度是因噎廢食，就好比為了不要出車禍，大家不要開車就好。重點應該是中選會怎麼去面對，就是你們要想說可能會很多，中選會要怎麼去解決這個問題，而不是因為會很多，所以最好少投一點，這個不是民主國家應有的思維方式。你要解決這個問題，不是叫大家少提一點，而是想辦法就行政上面來解決，主委，不知道你怎麼看？"],["游主任委員盈隆：我覺得把所有的問題歸諸行政，這叫做行政萬能，這可能也不見得對。"],["葉委員元之：那就是政府的問題啦！就像現在油的問題，你說政府人力不足，所以不能怪政府，一樣的態度嘛！"],["游主任委員盈隆：葉委員，你也見多識廣，我舉一個例子，當卡崔娜颶風摧毀美國大城市紐奧良的時候，就怪紐奧良整個建築太差、水道設備不好，人民……"],["葉委員元之：主委，我知道你的意思。"],["游主任委員盈隆：我要講的意思是……"],["葉委員元之：我知道你的意思……"],["游主任委員盈隆：10項公投可以說是百年一遇，要等到什麼時候，還有整個社會沸騰……"],["葉委員元之：等一下，主委，你有點搞錯我問的方向。我現在不是在講2018年誰對誰錯，我現在是講如果這一次就算有很多公投，中選會的態度應該是就行政來補強。就像你舉天災的例子，921是天災，過去建築法規的規定，很多房子的防震要求沒有那麼高，後來我們也更改法規，所以現在對防震要求是很多的。2018年發生這樣的事情，你現在如果面對一樣公投的數量，中選會怎麼去因應？而不是告訴大家說3個我受不了，所以你們少提一點，你不能這樣啦！"],["游主任委員盈隆：葉委員，你誤解我的意思。我們從2004年開始才有公投綁大選，之前通通沒有，我所說的是，我們如何汲取2018年的慘痛經驗教訓，然後讓……"],["葉委員元之：因為你說3個受不了，好像只能提3個一樣，不然你就受不了。"],["游主任委員盈隆：我是在建議。"],["葉委員元之：不是，你的……"],["游主任委員盈隆：我是建議……"],["葉委員元之：你說受不了，那麼大家就會覺得……"],["游主任委員盈隆：我是建議，我覺得社會應該思考這個問題，不要光想公投如何，或者是選務如何，現在是兩個已經綁在一起。"],["葉委員元之：沒有啦！我是覺得公投該提就提，中選會就是要因應，這是第一個點。第二個點，我看到民進黨的……"],["游主任委員盈隆：站在選務的立場，我們必須要很客觀地來告訴國人……"],["葉委員元之：我已經表達了，主委，我希望你可以聽進去。第二個，我看到民進黨黨團說現在在野黨提很多公投，中選會要嚴格把關、要嚴審，在下指導棋啊！主委，你會受到民進黨黨團的壓力嗎？"],["游主任委員盈隆：我們絕對超然、公正、中立……"],["葉委員元之：對，中選會……"],["游主任委員盈隆：客觀、專業。"],["葉委員元之：大家期待要客觀。再來，我想延續上一次我跟你的詢答，因為今天我們在討論的是選舉的秩序，我們最近一次大選就是去年的罷免，我就舉去年罷免的案例。這個案例我上次也問過你，我請警政署署長一起上來，好不好？我就用這個案例來詢問，假設這次發生一樣的事情。我講一下，這是上次罷免時在我選區所出現的狀況，在投開票所外就有看到應該是罷團的志工或什麼，我不知道，舉「謝謝你們」的牌子，然後在右下角放了一個logo，那個logo是什麼呢？我幫大家回顧一下，這就是罷免娃娃。投票當天在投開票所外面舉牌子，放的是罷免娃娃，這很清楚，這就好比……游主委以前也選舉過，你叫你的志工在投票當天放你的照片，也許不寫游盈隆，但是就放你的照片，可以這樣子嗎？那一天主委給我的答案是模稜兩可，說這個我們要查一下，看一下離投開票所多近，不敢回答。但是後來你們有回文，你們回文有一點就寫得非常清楚，公職人員選舉罷免法第五十六條第二款規定，政黨及任何人，不得在投票日從事競選、助選或罷免活動。很顯然，在投開票所外面放罷免娃娃，這是不是選舉活動？主委，是不是？"],["游主任委員盈隆：當然是。"],["葉委員元之：我為什麼請警政署署長來？因為那一天發生這個事情，我的支持者當下有去報警。我想問署長，正常的SOP，如果今天有人選舉，然後他的志工在投票當天放他的照片，舉在投開票所門口，假如有人報警，警察到現場會怎麼處理？"],["張署長榮興：我們會了解現場的狀況，蒐證完之後，如果……"],["葉委員元之：會不會辦？"],["張署長榮興：我們有選監小組跟檢察官，會依法來……"],["葉委員元之：會不會辦？"],["張署長榮興：會處理。"],["葉委員元之：你知道那一天怎麼處理嗎？警察到了現場，確認一下說沒有什麼問題，請他離開。可以這樣子嗎？"],["張署長榮興：這個部分……"],["葉委員元之：剛剛主委已經講了，主委說這個很明顯是有選舉行為，也有報警了，但警察到現場說沒有問題，請他離開。"],["張署長榮興：我們應該是會依法處理。"],["葉委員元之：為什麼沒有依法處理？你去查一下這個有沒有立案，好不好？"],["張署長榮興：我們來了解看看。"],["葉委員元之：就是沒有啊！"],["張署長榮興：再了解看看。"],["葉委員元之：就沒有嘛！所以這就是一個很明顯的放水，罷免的放水啊！我就問，今年的1128如果又有候選人做出一樣的狀況，有人報警，警察到現場看一看，會一樣說沒有問題就請他離開嗎？會這樣子嗎？還是會立案？"],["張署長榮興：我們一定會依法來處理。"],["葉委員元之：怎麼樣是依法？請他離開是依法，還是說至少要留一下名字，請中選會討論一下這個有沒有選舉的行為，然後再作出一個有問題的處分或沒問題的處分，是怎麼樣？"],["張署長榮興：我現在簡單講一下，依據選罷法的規定，投開票所三十公尺以內有這個行為……"],["葉委員元之：這個是另外的問題，你不能在投票當天……"],["張署長榮興：對，要看狀況，如果那個瞬間經過勸導、經過制止，他已經離開，沒有這個行為了，當然可能就是有一些……"],["葉委員元之：沒有，不是，署長，我現在講的是當天能不能從事選舉活動？如果今天有一個人他po了臉書，比如選舉當天廖先翔的志工po說「請支持廖先翔」，然後你勸導他，他下架就沒事了嗎？"],["張署長榮興：依選罷法的規定，當天不能從事這些行為。"],["葉委員元之：對嘛，不行嘛，那為什麼沒有處理，就只是請他離開呢？為什麼？"],["張署長榮興：我們應該是會處理，我再來了解。"],["葉委員元之：沒有就沒有嘛，不然你現在去查。"],["張署長榮興：好，我們來了解。"],["葉委員元之：我再秀一張照片給你看。投票當天，有人手持圖卡寫「謝謝你們」，還放了一個罷免娃娃的圖，就是謝謝你們投罷免嘛，然後警察就請他離開了。請問中選會主委，可以這樣子嗎？這是一個個案，不要說今年11月28號又發生，對不對？有人拿一張照片，然後警察說你趕快離開，我當沒看到就好，可以這樣子嗎？"],["游主任委員盈隆：葉委員，我們已經正式行文給你了，我們的態度很清楚。"],["葉委員元之：不可以，對嘛！所以這就是執行面的問題。署長，請你去了解一下，好不好？"],["張署長榮興：好。"],["葉委員元之：希望1128不要再出現類似的狀況，可以嗎？"],["張署長榮興：好。"],["葉委員元之：謝謝署長。"],["主席：下一位請陳亭妃委員質詢。陳亭妃委員，陳亭妃委員，陳亭妃委員不在。","下一位請徐欣瑩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":356,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-15-19","speakers":["廖先翔","許忠信","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","黃捷","李坤城","陳冠廷","楊瓊瓔","吳琪銘","葉元之","徐欣瑩","王鴻薇","李柏毅","蘇巧慧","高金素梅","丁學忠","傅崐萁","吳宗憲","蘇清泉"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2026-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1156302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156302_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、警政署署長、法務部次長就「115年11月28日地方公職人員選舉選務維安\n勤務工作規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員、內政部部長、警\n政署署長、法務部次長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會就「115年11月28日地方公職人員選\n舉選務整備、選務中立、假訊息因應作為與公民投票選務辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢；\n三、繼續審查委員羅智強等18人擬具「公民投票法第二十三條條文修正草案」案；四、繼續審查\n台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公民投票法第二十一條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員葉\n元之等19 人擬具「公民投票法第二十三條條文修正草案」案；六、審查委員廖偉翔等 16 人擬具\n「公民投票法第二十三條條文修正草案」案；七、審查委員賴士葆等25人擬具「公民投票法第二\n十一條條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156302_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}