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光部是做最大的作為一個最大的需求單位 所以我們提出一個特別條例那跟委員報告 因為這幾部的法案裡面國民黨跟民眾黨黨提出來都不是特別條例那因為我們提的是特別條例我們特別條例的目的是為了我們後續再提出具體的特別預算來供大院來審查但是"},{"start":194.43,"end":220.268,"text":"國民黨跟民主黨提的版本並不是一個特別條例所以這兩個限制是不一樣的對 但是顧部長你也必須要了解就是說當台灣要發展這個就是無人機的產業或者無人載具的產業的時候其實在這個肥紅供應鏈裡面我們也面臨到價格的競爭那這過去以來都是經濟部是這個部分的強項那"},{"start":222.589,"end":251.045,"text":"經濟部你怎麼樣子協助喔因為現在我們面臨到就是價格的問題嘛你怎麼樣協助業者導入自動化生產還有降低成本而不是只是因為如果只是純粹的軍規的採購的時候當然從顧部長的立場他不會在意這個生產成本是否降低而是他在意是否有辦法交單嘛 是不是"},{"start":251.565,"end":267.419,"text":"那這個部分你經濟部怎麼協調是我跟委員報告其實非紅供應鏈這個是民主整個民主國家現在普遍面臨到的這樣的一個問題那我們用這個特別預算給予長期的訂單而且給予量"},{"start":268.14,"end":280.528,"text":"那這樣的一個做法可以讓我們國內的廠商他在生產無人機的這個成本上面他可以去降低那再加上我們經濟部做一些產業的輔導給科專預算的這個補助"},{"start":283.47,"end":306.858,"text":"所以在一些產業技術的缺口上面我們把它補齊然後再加上有一個產業的規模出現的話那我們的成本就可以去降低所以國防部這2100億的需求對廠商來講是非常非常重要的對 國防部的需求很重要所以我們要把它整合到經濟部的這個未來產業發展的這個方面嘛所以我們這個統合領計劃已經在做產業輔導了還有"},{"start":309.759,"end":329.389,"text":"我想要了解就是國科會他所做的報告裡面我們在電池芯的材料關鍵零組件還是高度的依賴進口那這個部分你剛才也講了我們有五成以上的這個保證那你怎麼樣子做"},{"start":331.317,"end":341.682,"text":"是 其實我們在電子芯的部分我們也投入很多的一些研發補助然後也透過法人來協助我們國內的產業建築要建立自主"},{"start":347.065,"end":367.727,"text":"能力包括一些國內的大廠其實他們在這個電池新的開發上面包括台塑這些公司他們都投入在這個領域上面那我想我們的工研院也在發展這方面的一個電池的一個改善的一個技術特別是那種固態電池或是那個快充式的這個電池"},{"start":369.088,"end":390.382,"text":"這些對未來我們這個國防產業的這個需求是大有幫助而且這些技術都是可以我們彎道超車這個中國大陸的相關的這個技術好 那顧部長不好意思就教一下就是台灣的無人機產業它現在面臨到就是實際應用的這個"},{"start":392.915,"end":409.173,"text":"的考驗那我想要請問就是針對國內的這個軍方的採購你如何強化就是作戰需求跟民間研發的對接是否你會仿效美國的複製者的計畫"},{"start":411.5,"end":433.751,"text":"跟委員報告我想這樣第一個就是說先就這個我們作戰需求面的部分我們會跟經濟部合作然後來讓這個廠商能夠了解說我們作戰方面的需求大概是什麼這是第一個第二個就是採購之後我們現在也不是說一次就把採購完我們會分年分批採購那在這個分年分批採購的當下我們成立一個平台"},{"start":434.191,"end":450.539,"text":"所以我們每次的這個戰演訓的時候會進行回饋說這個好不好用那還有沒有在改進的地方那同時我們也會依據國外可能說二五戰爭他們使用的一個場景實際的場景我會回饋到這個平台上面那這個平台上面我們也會更進一步"},{"start":451.54,"end":468.517,"text":"那個合作然後包括公園院也好中科院也好他們都可以來就這個平台上面所進行的這些需求面也好然後要缺改面也好我們來進行這樣子的一個平台的設計然後讓這個廠商理解那如果廠商能夠"},{"start":469.598,"end":496.121,"text":"再快速的進行他們不管是缺改的一個一個更正或者是一個更迭代的一個創新的一個納入那我們就會後續我們的採購案裡面他把它放在最有利標裡面他作為一個加分的項目等等這樣子的一個迭代創新才能夠因應無人載具的快速的發展這樣的採購策略但前提是前提是他現在要看得到他明年他還有"},{"start":497.161,"end":516.637,"text":"還有後年還有大後年如果放在年度預算裡面他今年是這樣子那我們就沒有辦法要求有一個迭代創新的要求我們也沒辦法透過長單的規模來讓他願意進行投資那對可是你有沒有先給予他們就是長期就是場域的這樣子的一個驗證機會就是軟體這個驗證的機制現在由行政院"},{"start":521.181,"end":543.713,"text":"的層級做跨部會的協調因為這涉及到不是只有國安部、經濟部還有交通部其他還有相關各部會都已經在因為其實因為顧部長你也知道不管是如何在立法院我們就是審過是條例喔那未來這個預算其實還是由就是行政院來編列然後就是要會同你們各部會喔"},{"start":544.733,"end":572.483,"text":"才會決定喔那所以這個部分業者也需要一個實際的場域的還有未來我們怎麼樣子增加就是說無人機使用整個系統性的這樣子的一個問題喔那我覺得這個部分也要請顧部長就我理解我們國防部參與的行政院層級的在水面的採聚無人機的採聚還有這個甚至水價都在研討這個測試的場域"},{"start":575.325,"end":596.058,"text":"其實我還有一點就是關於美國國防授權法的889條的限制對於供應鏈的治安合規要求這會增加中小企業的營業成本這也要請經濟部來協助好不好因為這個由速發部他們會來好不好經濟部跟速發部是不是對速發部會來做治安的檢測好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:44:24.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:44:28.619000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我想要請何次長、顧部長。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T11:44:28.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:44:29.560000+08:00","text":"請經濟部、國防部。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T11:44:29.560000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:44:30.560000+08:00","text":"謝委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:44:29.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:44:31.422000+08:00","text":"部長早安、次長早安。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:44:47.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:45:05.382000+08:00","text":"我們之前在審因應國際情勢經濟社會跟民生國安韌性條例時，好像也曾經把經濟部當作主審，但是其他的預算都放進來，對不對？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:45:06.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:45:21.595000+08:00","text":"所以，其實如果以經濟部為主審，我相信經濟部也不會太干涉到國防部對於國防自主需求的規劃。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:45:22.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:45:34.702000+08:00","text":"在院會以及跨部會的流程上面，請問兩位首長，有什麼樣的困難嗎？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:45:34.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:45:34.942000+08:00","text":"應該不會吧。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T11:45:36.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:45:45.745000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實無人機這個產業在國內不是現在才開始，我們在112年就已經在輔導產業界了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T11:45:46.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:46:01.913000+08:00","text":"目前是因為地緣政治，還有國防自主以及非紅供應鏈在地採購，有建立產能的需要，國防部也提出了這樣的採購需求。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T11:46:03.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:46:18.326000+08:00","text":"業者他們需要的就是一個穩定、長期的訂單，我想用特別預算保證有這樣一個預算的支持，讓業者能夠投入研發然後進行投資，這是我們未來產業擴大規模或是提升產能一個很重要的策略。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T11:46:18.326000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:46:19.326000+08:00","text":"所以，我想……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:46:18.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:46:42.585000+08:00","text":"對，我們也是想藉著這樣子的機會，就是全球要發展供應鏈，他們不購買中國大陸的無人機，所以臺灣才有這樣一個機會……","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T11:46:42.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:46:51.127000+08:00","text":"對，所以行政院提出這一個特別條例，就是基於國防部建軍的需要，由經濟部來做產業輔導，協助我們廠商建立這樣一個在地化產能、產量……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:46:51.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:46:51.888000+08:00","text":"讓國防部當所有廠商的第一桶金，是不是？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:46:51.888000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:47:00.586000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:47:00.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:47:02.508000+08:00","text":"算是所有廠商的第一桶金嘛。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T11:47:03.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:47:12.516000+08:00","text":"廠商目前當然都已經在發展，國防部作為一個最大的需求單位，所以我們提出特別條例。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T11:47:13.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:47:34.753000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為這幾部法案裡面，國民黨跟民眾黨黨團提出來的都不是特別條例，而我們提的是特別條例，我們提特別條例的目的，是為了我們後續再提出具體的特別預算供大院審查，但是國民黨跟民眾黨提出的版本並不是特別條例，所以這兩個性質是不一樣的。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:47:35.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:47:51.025000+08:00","text":"對，但是顧部長也必須要了解，當臺灣要發展無人機產業或者無人載具產業的時候，其實在非紅供應鏈裡面，我們也面臨價格的競爭。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:47:51.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:47:59.891000+08:00","text":"過去以來這個部分都是經濟部的強項，經濟部怎麼樣協助？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:48:00.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:48:26.025000+08:00","text":"因為現在我們面臨的就是價格的問題，你怎麼樣協助業者導入自動化生產，還有降低成本，而不是只是……因為如果只是純粹的軍規採購的時候，當然，從顧部長的立場，他不會在意生產成本是否降低，而是在意是否有辦法交單嘛，是不是？","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:48:27.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:48:28.727000+08:00","text":"這個部分，經濟部怎麼協調？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T11:48:29.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:48:51.345000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實非紅供應鏈是全球民主國家現在普遍面臨的問題，我們用特別預算給予長期的訂單，而且給予量，這樣的作法可以讓我們國內的廠商，在生產無人機的成本上面可以降低。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T11:48:52.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:49:07.133000+08:00","text":"再加上我們經濟部做一些產業的輔導，給予科專預算的補助，把一些產業技術的缺口補齊，然後再加上有一個產業規模出現的話，我們的成本就可以降低。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T11:49:07.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:49:13.615000+08:00","text":"所以，國防部這個2,100億的需求，對廠商來講是非常、非常重要的。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:49:14.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:49:20.778000+08:00","text":"對，國防部的需求很重要，所以我們要把它整合到經濟部未來產業發展的這個方面，是不是？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T11:49:20.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:49:21.818000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們這個統籌型計畫已經在做產業輔導了。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:49:21.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:49:44.369000+08:00","text":"還有我想要了解，國科會所做的報告裡面，我們在電池芯的材料、關鍵零組件還是高度依賴進口，這個部分你剛才也講了，我們有五成以上的保證，那你怎麼樣做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T11:49:47.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:50:12.055000+08:00","text":"其實我們在電池芯的部分，我們也投入很多的研發補助，也透過法人來協助國內的產業建立自主能力，包括一些國內的大廠，其實他們在電池芯的開發上，包括台塑這些公司，他們都投入在這個領域。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T11:50:13.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:50:35.575000+08:00","text":"我們的工研院也在發展這方面的電池改善技術，特別是那種固態電池，或是快充式的電池，這些對未來我們國防產業的需求大有幫助，而且這些技術我們都可以彎道超車中國大陸的相關技術。好。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:50:36.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:51:04.173000+08:00","text":"顧部長，不好意思，就教一下，臺灣的無人機產業現在面臨實際應用的考驗，我想要請問，針對軍方國內的採購，你如何強化作戰需求跟民間研發的對接，你是否會仿效美國的複製者計畫？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄：跟委員報告","start":"2026-07-16T11:51:07.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:52:27.638000+08:00","text":"第一、先就我們的作戰需求面，我們會跟經濟部合作，來讓廠商能夠了解我們作戰方面的需求大概是什麼，這是第一個；第二個就是採購之後，我們現在也不是說一次就採購完，我們會分年分批採購，在分年分批採購的當下，我們成立一個平台，在我們每次戰演訓的時候會進行回饋，說這個好不好用、那還有沒有可以再改進的地方，同時，我們也會依據國外，可能俄烏戰爭他們使用的一個實際場景，回饋到這個平台，在這個平台上，我們也會跟經濟部合作，包括工研院、中科院，他們都可以就這個平台上所呈現的需求面、缺改面，進行平台的設計，讓廠商理解，如果廠商能夠再快速的進行，不管是缺改的更正，或者是迭代的創新，我們後續的採購案就會把它放在最有利標裡面，作為一個加分的項目，這樣的迭代創新才能夠因應無人載具的快速發展，這樣的採購策略，但前提是……","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:52:27.638000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:52:28.638000+08:00","text":"那軟體呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T11:52:28.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:52:44.031000+08:00","text":"前提是他現在要看得到明年還有、後年還有、大後年還有，如果放在年度預算裡面，他今年是這樣子，那我們就沒有辦法要求迭代創新，我們也沒辦法透過長單的規模讓他願意進行投資。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:52:44.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:52:50.737000+08:00","text":"對，可是你有沒有先給予他們場域的驗證機會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:52:50.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:52:51.077000+08:00","text":"就是軟體。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T11:52:51.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:53:04.245000+08:00","text":"這個驗證的機制，現在由行政院的層級做跨部會的協調，因為這不只涉及到國防部、經濟部，還有交通部及其他相關部會，都已經在……","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:53:04.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:53:37.480000+08:00","text":"其實顧部長你也知道，不管如何，在立法院我們就是審過條例，未來這個預算還是要由行政院來編列，要會同你們各部會才會決定，所以這個部分，業者也需要一個實際的場域，還有未來我們怎麼樣系統性的增加無人機的使用，我覺得這個部分也要請顧部長……","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T11:53:37.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:53:47.463000+08:00","text":"就我理解，我們國防部參與的行政院層級的水面無人載具甚至水下的，都在研討這個測試的場域。好。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:53:50.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:54:04.434000+08:00","text":"其實還有一點，就是關於美國國防授權法889條的限制，對於供應鏈的資安合規要求，這會增加中小企業的營業成本，這也要請經濟部來協助，好不好？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T11:54:05.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:54:07.396000+08:00","text":"這個數發部他們會來做資安的檢測。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:54:08.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:54:09.497000+08:00","text":"經濟部跟數發部，是不是？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T11:54:09.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:54:10.218000+08:00","text":"對，數發部。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-07-16T11:54:11.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T11:54:11.058000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T11:54:11.558000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:54:15.558000+08:00","text":"謝謝謝衣鳯委員，謝謝各機關首長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T11:54:15.858000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T11:54:19.000857+08:00","text":"接下來請鍾佳濱委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":742,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（11時44分）謝謝主席，我想要請何次長、顧部長。"],["主席：請經濟部、國防部。"],["顧部長立雄：謝委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：部長早安、次長早安。我們之前在審因應國際情勢經濟社會跟民生國安韌性條例時，好像也曾經把經濟部當作主審，但是其他的預算都放進來，對不對？所以，其實如果以經濟部為主審，我相信經濟部也不會太干涉到國防部對於國防自主需求的規劃。在院會以及跨部會的流程上面，請問兩位首長，有什麼樣的困難嗎？應該不會吧。"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，其實無人機這個產業在國內不是現在才開始，我們在112年就已經在輔導產業界了。目前是因為地緣政治，還有國防自主以及非紅供應鏈在地採購，有建立產能的需要，國防部也提出了這樣的採購需求。業者他們需要的就是一個穩定、長期的訂單，我想用特別預算保證有這樣一個預算的支持，讓業者能夠投入研發然後進行投資，這是我們未來產業擴大規模或是提升產能一個很重要的策略。所以，我想……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，我們也是想藉著這樣子的機會，就是全球要發展供應鏈，他們不購買中國大陸的無人機，所以臺灣才有這樣一個機會……"],["何次長晉滄：對，所以行政院提出這一個特別條例，就是基於國防部建軍的需要，由經濟部來做產業輔導，協助我們廠商建立這樣一個在地化產能、產量……"],["謝委員衣鳯：讓國防部當所有廠商的第一桶金，是不是？對不對？算是所有廠商的第一桶金嘛。"],["顧部長立雄：廠商目前當然都已經在發展，國防部作為一個最大的需求單位，所以我們提出特別條例。跟委員報告，因為這幾部法案裡面，國民黨跟民眾黨黨團提出來的都不是特別條例，而我們提的是特別條例，我們提特別條例的目的，是為了我們後續再提出具體的特別預算供大院審查，但是國民黨跟民眾黨提出的版本並不是特別條例，所以這兩個性質是不一樣的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，但是顧部長也必須要了解，當臺灣要發展無人機產業或者無人載具產業的時候，其實在非紅供應鏈裡面，我們也面臨價格的競爭。過去以來這個部分都是經濟部的強項，經濟部怎麼樣協助？因為現在我們面臨的就是價格的問題，你怎麼樣協助業者導入自動化生產，還有降低成本，而不是只是……因為如果只是純粹的軍規採購的時候，當然，從顧部長的立場，他不會在意生產成本是否降低，而是在意是否有辦法交單嘛，是不是？這個部分，經濟部怎麼協調？"],["何次長晉滄：是。跟委員報告，其實非紅供應鏈是全球民主國家現在普遍面臨的問題，我們用特別預算給予長期的訂單，而且給予量，這樣的作法可以讓我們國內的廠商，在生產無人機的成本上面可以降低。再加上我們經濟部做一些產業的輔導，給予科專預算的補助，把一些產業技術的缺口補齊，然後再加上有一個產業規模出現的話，我們的成本就可以降低。所以，國防部這個2,100億的需求，對廠商來講是非常、非常重要的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，國防部的需求很重要，所以我們要把它整合到經濟部未來產業發展的這個方面，是不是？"],["何次長晉滄：對，所以我們這個統籌型計畫已經在做產業輔導了。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還有我想要了解，國科會所做的報告裡面，我們在電池芯的材料、關鍵零組件還是高度依賴進口，這個部分你剛才也講了，我們有五成以上的保證，那你怎麼樣做？"],["何次長晉滄：其實我們在電池芯的部分，我們也投入很多的研發補助，也透過法人來協助國內的產業建立自主能力，包括一些國內的大廠，其實他們在電池芯的開發上，包括台塑這些公司，他們都投入在這個領域。我們的工研院也在發展這方面的電池改善技術，特別是那種固態電池，或是快充式的電池，這些對未來我們國防產業的需求大有幫助，而且這些技術我們都可以彎道超車中國大陸的相關技術。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。顧部長，不好意思，就教一下，臺灣的無人機產業現在面臨實際應用的考驗，我想要請問，針對軍方國內的採購，你如何強化作戰需求跟民間研發的對接，你是否會仿效美國的複製者計畫？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告：第一、先就我們的作戰需求面，我們會跟經濟部合作，來讓廠商能夠了解我們作戰方面的需求大概是什麼，這是第一個；第二個就是採購之後，我們現在也不是說一次就採購完，我們會分年分批採購，在分年分批採購的當下，我們成立一個平台，在我們每次戰演訓的時候會進行回饋，說這個好不好用、那還有沒有可以再改進的地方，同時，我們也會依據國外，可能俄烏戰爭他們使用的一個實際場景，回饋到這個平台，在這個平台上，我們也會跟經濟部合作，包括工研院、中科院，他們都可以就這個平台上所呈現的需求面、缺改面，進行平台的設計，讓廠商理解，如果廠商能夠再快速的進行，不管是缺改的更正，或者是迭代的創新，我們後續的採購案就會把它放在最有利標裡面，作為一個加分的項目，這樣的迭代創新才能夠因應無人載具的快速發展，這樣的採購策略，但前提是……"],["謝委員衣鳯：那軟體呢？"],["顧部長立雄：前提是他現在要看得到明年還有、後年還有、大後年還有，如果放在年度預算裡面，他今年是這樣子，那我們就沒有辦法要求迭代創新，我們也沒辦法透過長單的規模讓他願意進行投資。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，可是你有沒有先給予他們場域的驗證機會？就是軟體。"],["顧部長立雄：這個驗證的機制，現在由行政院的層級做跨部會的協調，因為這不只涉及到國防部、經濟部，還有交通部及其他相關部會，都已經在……"],["謝委員衣鳯：其實顧部長你也知道，不管如何，在立法院我們就是審過條例，未來這個預算還是要由行政院來編列，要會同你們各部會才會決定，所以這個部分，業者也需要一個實際的場域，還有未來我們怎麼樣系統性的增加無人機的使用，我覺得這個部分也要請顧部長……"],["顧部長立雄：就我理解，我們國防部參與的行政院層級的水面無人載具甚至水下的，都在研討這個測試的場域。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。其實還有一點，就是關於美國國防授權法889條的限制，對於供應鏈的資安合規要求，這會增加中小企業的營業成本，這也要請經濟部來協助，好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：這個數發部他們會來做資安的檢測。"],["謝委員衣鳯：經濟部跟數發部，是不是？"],["顧部長立雄：對，數發部。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝謝衣鳯委員，謝謝各機關首長。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-5-19,35,20-1","speakers":["洪毓祥","林楚茵","林沛祥","王安祥","陳亭妃","賴士葆","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","王義川","呂玉玲","劉書彬","王定宇","謝衣鳯","鍾佳濱","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","郭國文","陳永康","蔡易餘","陳超明","邱志偉","李彥秀","鄭正鈐","馬文君","牛煦庭","黃建賓","李坤城","陳冠廷","羅明才","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","羅美玲","林德福","林思銘","傅崐萁","張嘉郡","蘇清泉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1156401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查：一、行政院函請審議「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案；二、本院委員林楚\n茵等17人擬具「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「強化\n國防自主暨無人機產業發展條例草案」案；四、本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防自主無人載具科技發\n展及採購條例草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156401_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}