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各位部長好 部長那個我看了整個藍白的版本當中是從產業面來做切入那具體的條文當中呢也有可能透過每年的這個供應算的編列方式而延遲到交貨的這個節奏"},{"start":39.302,"end":68.374,"text":"那二來的部分他有一些的暴露出來供應鏈的這個合作對象而且在一定金額以上那這幾個條文來看的話他著重於產業以商業為主這個很像是以民代軍而且呢拖延時間呢又保留一個彈性第三呢供應鏈釋出是不是有這個機會我只說講這三點可能剛剛在備詢台沒有注意到剛剛呢有一個新聞啊也就是說呢"},{"start":69.594,"end":87.999,"text":"這個傳出北京主動提出三個原則啊這三個原則就是以民代軍實成彈性釋出供應鏈的機會也就是飛飛虹這樣的情況底下對照今天藍白的版本還蠻吻合的部長你怎麼看呃我想呃我"},{"start":92.355,"end":119.847,"text":"在看到新聞的當下我並不是非常的清楚這個相關的這些這個它的確實性是如何但是我想我們還是堅持我們國防部的立場就是說以大量產單的投資策略刺激國內廠商來投資相關的軍用無人載具的產業鏈那麼我們一方面擴大生產量一方面追求技術升級那最重要就是要飛紅"},{"start":121.629,"end":126.27,"text":"供應鏈,那這個跟現在民主國家都是步伐都是一致"},{"start":127.506,"end":154.028,"text":"部長 我想你的概念上很清楚就是以需求代替供給那也就是從烏克蘭的整個產業的發展也是從一個國境的需求發展那過往也有一些GPS也是從國防的需求而發展出來而因此而產業化我想這個方向是正確的 沒有錯不過就你條文的內容當中其實剛剛也有其他的委員有提到你著重於這個延愛的防守"},{"start":154.969,"end":169.905,"text":"基本上一旦到沿岸的時候對國人的這心理壓力都非常的大不論是濱海型的監視型或者是濱海攻擊型以及無人機及其小型自殺無人艇等等都是以沿岸防守為主"},{"start":170.706,"end":189.606,"text":"但是呢有沒有可能不同的一個作戰防守思維從烏克蘭的角度來看一個比較延長的方式可以高達這個兩千公里的一個距離這樣情況底下是不是中長距離的部分打擊跟干擾的作戰思維會是在這個法案當中的重點當中的另一個重點"},{"start":190.667,"end":200.782,"text":"我想這兩個部分是不一樣就是說我們這個幾款的這個攻擊型的無人機除了沉浸式跟投彈式以外我們還有中程的自殺式無人機跟"},{"start":201.505,"end":229.56,"text":"小型的自殺式無人機它攻擊的距離在我們的整個的渡海面對渡海作戰上面有一定的部分那您現在講的是更長程的這個部分對 更中長程或長程的話那是更需要依靠更需要依賴低軌衛星或者我們國內的這個飛衛衛星的可能性對 它有相關其他的那個要支援的一些措施那我想這個部分並不在我們這一次的案為內但不代表我們不會去發展這個部分"},{"start":231.179,"end":246.307,"text":"這個未來的發展也就是說可能會有第二個梯次就是如同啊這個昨天啊這個卓院長有提到一般嘛對不對是下一個進程我們這一次的特別條例著重在是我們依據國內的這個能量那能夠自主產能的這一塊"},{"start":247.052,"end":265.189,"text":"至於更長程你剛提到的這個它有很多的一些資源的一些設施包括導控包括通訊包括辨識然後包括最後進行這個能夠自主的供給這些我想這些部分"},{"start":266.569,"end":286.859,"text":"有需要很多的這個 需要一段時間的累積啦 相關的不是說它飛得遠就可以打得到但它有相關的資源設施 那這個部分也是在我們的也是在我們的油航行為之內 但是我想我們沒有辦法在這裡多做說明好 謝謝部長 部長請休息 我接下來請教一下次長 次長"},{"start":288.42,"end":314.03,"text":"市長其實從442億的這個部分的一個產業發展的這個2025到2030年的這個預算當中其實到目前為止雖然大家都在稱呼說無人機產業是未來的這個護國神山可是就我所理解的部分這些業者可以區分成所謂創新業者也可以區分所謂整合業者就創新的部分呢一年之內可能"},{"start":314.95,"end":344.57,"text":"生產不到10台POC的展示機啊而且有很多現象都是在玩VC啊創新啊資本的一個組合甚至呢有換金主的現象一個換過一個這是第一啊這創新的一種現象啊拿政府資源的一種亂象第二個整合業者是引進了中國相關的一個器材透過洗產地的方式還有貼這個標籤的方式然後牽切結縮非縫供應鏈的方式這種亂象當中有沒有可能遇遇遏止啊部長"},{"start":345.931,"end":372.511,"text":"市長跟委員報告那有關這個部分其實在工程會已經有訂定這個遙控無人機的一個採購的一個指引那要完全這個遏止這個非紅就是紅色供應鏈的這個產品進到公務部門的這個採購裡面來所以我們已經有一套機制去阻擋這些紅色供應鏈的這個產品"},{"start":374.332,"end":394.696,"text":"工程會是在今年1月公布啦目標是在2027年1月開始啦那亂象之所以產生要達到非紅化跟國產化一個重要的目標遙控無人機的採購作業指引當中寫得非常的清楚那重點當中呢今天要討論的是如何商轉均雙用的狀況憑暫時如何轉換我覺得這非常關鍵啦那現實來說呢我們卻產生了幾個問題第一個呢我們在這一個"},{"start":404.389,"end":425.01,"text":"電池供應的這個部分當中一個關鍵的一個原料的部分不論是電池芯的部分等等這些呢還是在中國的依賴的情況底下這如何去紅化這是第一個第二個呢熱顯像的部分夜間的作戰核心以及非控電腦非控制的核心這個部分關鍵的這個部分都是經濟部要去面對的問題啊"},{"start":427.022,"end":449.431,"text":"二來要國產化 二來要輝煌化你砸了這442億當中 如果你有辦法產業化的話那將來才有可能軍用化不是嗎是 跟委員報告就是您這邊提到的一些關鍵 您主見的這個部分我們現在已經有透過一些法人科專已經開始在跟產業界跟法人一起來做研發"},{"start":451.612,"end":470.964,"text":"我們目前有一些無人機的產業他會從日本從美國那邊進口這些關鍵女組件進來做一些組裝這當然這是短期的一個因應做法那長期我們還是希望他能夠落地能夠在國內能夠自主生產這方面的一些關鍵女組件所以這也是我們在這個同舟型計畫裡面為什麼編了一兩百億的這研發補助經費要來協助產業能夠趕快來發展這方面的一個關鍵"},{"start":478.709,"end":504.368,"text":"我想商購的部分跟偽製的部分一定要有一定的比例的一個調整不過對於依賴這個偽製的商購的部分就會影響到偽製的一個發展影響到國防自主的一個未來我想在比例上的拿捏當中經濟部作為這個中科院最大的單一的股東來說這個角色非常的重要且關鍵然後非紅化以及國產化的目標要達成經濟部的角色應該在這個時候透過這442億的預算來把它予以達成謝謝"},{"start":509.278,"end":509.299,"text":"好,謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:24:40.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:24:40.214000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:24:40.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:24:43.576000+08:00","text":"有請顧部長和何次長。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T12:24:44.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:24:44.536000+08:00","text":"請國防部、經濟部。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T12:24:44.536000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T12:24:54.178000+08:00","text":"郭委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:24:54.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:24:54.438000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:24:56.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:25:07.402000+08:00","text":"我看了整個藍白的版本當中，是從產業面來做切入，具體的條文當中，也有可能透過每年公務預算的編列方式而延遲到交貨的節奏。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:25:09.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:25:27.609000+08:00","text":"二來，他有暴露出一些供應鏈的合作對象，而且在一定金額以上，從這幾個條文來看，他著重於產業，以商業為主，這個很像是以民代軍，而且拖延時間又保留一個彈性。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:25:28.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:25:31.691000+08:00","text":"第三，供應鏈釋出是不是有這個機會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:25:31.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:25:53.458000+08:00","text":"我之所以講這三點，可能你剛剛在備詢臺沒有注意到，剛剛有一個新聞，傳出北京主動提出三個原則，就是以民代軍、時程彈性、釋出供應鏈機會，也就是非非紅，這樣的情況底下，對照今天藍白的版本還蠻吻合的。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:25:54.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:25:54.899000+08:00","text":"部長，你怎麼看？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T12:26:02.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:26:36.250000+08:00","text":"在看到新聞的當下，我並不是非常清楚它的確實性是如何，但我們還是堅持國防部的立場，就是以大量、長單的籌獲策略，刺激國內廠商來投資相關的軍用無人載具的產業鏈，一方面擴大生產量，一方面追求技術升級，最重要的就是非紅供應鏈，這個跟現在民主國家的步伐都是一致的。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:26:37.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:27:25.151000+08:00","text":"部長，我想你的概念很清楚，就是以需求代替供給，像烏克蘭整個產業的發展也是從國軍的需求發展出來的，過往也有一些GPS也是從國防的需求發展出來，因此而產業化，我想這個方向是正確的沒有錯，不過就你條文的內容當中，其實剛剛也有其他委員提到，你著重於沿岸的防守，基本上一旦到沿岸的時候，對國人的心理壓力都非常的大，不論是濱海監偵型無人機、濱海攻擊型無人機或是小型自殺無人艇等等，都是以沿岸防守為主，但是有沒有可能有不同的作戰防守思維？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:27:25.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:27:39.606000+08:00","text":"從烏克蘭的角度來看，一個是比較延長的方式，可以高達2,000公里的距離，在這種情況底下，是不是中長距離的部分打擊跟干擾的作戰思維會是這個法案當中的重點中的另一個重點？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T12:27:40.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:27:57.928000+08:00","text":"我想這兩個部分是不一樣的，我們這幾款的攻擊型無人機，除了沉浸式跟投彈式以外，我們還有中程的自殺式無人機跟小型的自殺式無人機，它攻擊的距離在我們面對渡海作戰上面有一定的功能……","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:27:57.928000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T12:27:58.928000+08:00","text":"部長，打斷一下……","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T12:27:58.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:28:00.490000+08:00","text":"您現在講的是更長程的部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:28:00.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:28:08.614000+08:00","text":"對，更中長程或長程的話，是不是有更需要依賴低軌衛星或者國內的福二衛星的可能性？","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T12:28:09.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:28:19.539000+08:00","text":"對，它有相關其他要支援的措施，這個部分並不在我們這一次的範圍內，但不代表我們不會去發展這個部分。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:28:21.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:28:29.483000+08:00","text":"也就是說，未來的發展可能會有第二個梯次，就如同昨天卓院長所提到的一般，是下一個進程。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T12:28:29.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:28:57.470000+08:00","text":"我們這一次的特別條例著重在我們依據國內的能量能夠自主產能的這一塊，至於您剛剛提到的更長程的，它有很多支援的設施，包括導控，包括通訊，包括辨識，包括最後進行能夠自主的攻擊，我想這些部分有需要很多相關的……","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:28:58.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:28:59.751000+08:00","text":"需要一段時間的累積。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-16T12:29:01.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:29:13.678000+08:00","text":"不是飛得遠就可以打得到，它有很多相關支援的設施，這個部分也是在我們的研發範圍之內，但是我們沒有辦法在這裡多做說明。","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:29:13.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:29:15.779000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長，部長請休息。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:29:15.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:30:00.360000+08:00","text":"我接下來請教一下次長，次長，從442億產業發展的這個2025到2030年的預算當中，其實到目前為止，雖然大家都稱無人機產業是未來的護國神山，可是就我所理解的，這些業者可以區分成創新業者和整合業者，就創新的部分，一年之內可能都生產不到10台POC的展示機，而且有很多現象都是在玩VC、創新、資本的組合，甚至有換金主的現象，一個換過一個，這是第一個，這是創新的一種現象，拿政府資源的一種亂象。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:30:00.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:30:09.967000+08:00","text":"第二個，整合業者引進了中國相關的器材，透過洗產地的方式，還有貼標籤的方式，然後簽切結說是非紅供應鏈的方式。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:30:11.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:30:13.789000+08:00","text":"針對這種亂象，有沒有可能予以遏止？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:30:16.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:30:16.711000+08:00","text":"請次長。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T12:30:16.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:30:42.491000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有關這個部分，其實工程會已經訂有遙控無人機採購作業指引，要完全遏止紅色供應鏈的產品進到公務部門的採購裡面來，所以我們已經有一套機制去阻擋這些紅色供應鏈的產品進來。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:30:44.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:30:57.414000+08:00","text":"工程會是在今年1月公布的，目標希望在2027年1月達成，針對這些亂象，非紅化跟國產化是一個重要的目標，遙控無人機採購作業指引當中寫得非常清楚。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:30:59.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:31:03.215000+08:00","text":"今天要討論的重點是，商用、軍用如何轉換；平、戰時如何轉換，我覺得這非常關鍵。","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:31:03.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:31:25.040000+08:00","text":"但現實來說卻產生了幾個問題，第一個，在電池供應關鍵原料的部分，不論是電池芯等等，仍是依賴中國的情況底下，我們要如何去紅化？","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:31:25.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:31:47.967000+08:00","text":"這是第一個；第二個，熱顯像、飛控電腦等等的核心、關鍵零組件設備，都是經濟部要去面對的項目，一來要國產化，二來要非紅化，你砸了這442億，如果有辦法產業化的話，將來才有可能軍用化，不是嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T12:31:48.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:31:59.431000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，您這邊所提的一些關鍵零組件，我們現在有透過一些法人科專，已經開始跟產業界、跟法人一起研發。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T12:32:01.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:32:18.042000+08:00","text":"當然目前我們有些無人機產業會從日本、從美國那邊進口這些關鍵零組件做一些組裝，這當然是一個短期的因應做法，長期下來我們還是希望它能夠落地，在國內能夠自主生產這方面的關鍵零組件。","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T12:32:18.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:32:20.964000+08:00","text":"這也是我們在統籌型計畫裡面為什麼編了一、兩百億的研發補助經費，就是要來協助產業能夠趕快發展這方面的關鍵……","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:32:28.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:32:39.277000+08:00","text":"我想商購跟委製的部分，一定要上有一定比例的調整，過於依賴商購就會影響到委製的發展，影響到國防自主的未來。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:32:39.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:32:47.763000+08:00","text":"我想這比例的拿捏，經濟部作為中科院最大的、單一的股東，這個角色非常重要且關鍵。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-16T12:32:48.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:32:54.368000+08:00","text":"至於非紅化以及國產化目標的達成，就經濟部的角色，應該在這個時候透過這442億的預算把它達成。謝謝。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T12:32:59.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T12:32:59.299000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T12:32:59.799000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T12:33:01.799000+08:00","text":"謝謝郭國文委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T12:33:02.099000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T12:33:05.813286+08:00","text":"接下來我們請陳永康委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":829,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（12時24分）謝謝主席。有請顧部長和何次長。"],["主席：請國防部、經濟部。"],["顧部長立雄：郭委員好。"],["郭委員國文：部長好。我看了整個藍白的版本當中，是從產業面來做切入，具體的條文當中，也有可能透過每年公務預算的編列方式而延遲到交貨的節奏。二來，他有暴露出一些供應鏈的合作對象，而且在一定金額以上，從這幾個條文來看，他著重於產業，以商業為主，這個很像是以民代軍，而且拖延時間又保留一個彈性。第三，供應鏈釋出是不是有這個機會？我之所以講這三點，可能你剛剛在備詢臺沒有注意到，剛剛有一個新聞，傳出北京主動提出三個原則，就是以民代軍、時程彈性、釋出供應鏈機會，也就是非非紅，這樣的情況底下，對照今天藍白的版本還蠻吻合的。部長，你怎麼看？"],["顧部長立雄：在看到新聞的當下，我並不是非常清楚它的確實性是如何，但我們還是堅持國防部的立場，就是以大量、長單的籌獲策略，刺激國內廠商來投資相關的軍用無人載具的產業鏈，一方面擴大生產量，一方面追求技術升級，最重要的就是非紅供應鏈，這個跟現在民主國家的步伐都是一致的。"],["郭委員國文：部長，我想你的概念很清楚，就是以需求代替供給，像烏克蘭整個產業的發展也是從國軍的需求發展出來的，過往也有一些GPS也是從國防的需求發展出來，因此而產業化，我想這個方向是正確的沒有錯，不過就你條文的內容當中，其實剛剛也有其他委員提到，你著重於沿岸的防守，基本上一旦到沿岸的時候，對國人的心理壓力都非常的大，不論是濱海監偵型無人機、濱海攻擊型無人機或是小型自殺無人艇等等，都是以沿岸防守為主，但是有沒有可能有不同的作戰防守思維？從烏克蘭的角度來看，一個是比較延長的方式，可以高達2,000公里的距離，在這種情況底下，是不是中長距離的部分打擊跟干擾的作戰思維會是這個法案當中的重點中的另一個重點？"],["顧部長立雄：我想這兩個部分是不一樣的，我們這幾款的攻擊型無人機，除了沉浸式跟投彈式以外，我們還有中程的自殺式無人機跟小型的自殺式無人機，它攻擊的距離在我們面對渡海作戰上面有一定的功能……"],["郭委員國文：部長，打斷一下……"],["顧部長立雄：您現在講的是更長程的部分。"],["郭委員國文：對，更中長程或長程的話，是不是有更需要依賴低軌衛星或者國內的福二衛星的可能性？"],["顧部長立雄：對，它有相關其他要支援的措施，這個部分並不在我們這一次的範圍內，但不代表我們不會去發展這個部分。"],["郭委員國文：也就是說，未來的發展可能會有第二個梯次，就如同昨天卓院長所提到的一般，是下一個進程。"],["顧部長立雄：我們這一次的特別條例著重在我們依據國內的能量能夠自主產能的這一塊，至於您剛剛提到的更長程的，它有很多支援的設施，包括導控，包括通訊，包括辨識，包括最後進行能夠自主的攻擊，我想這些部分有需要很多相關的……"],["郭委員國文：需要一段時間的累積。"],["顧部長立雄：不是飛得遠就可以打得到，它有很多相關支援的設施，這個部分也是在我們的研發範圍之內，但是我們沒有辦法在這裡多做說明。"],["郭委員國文：好，謝謝部長，部長請休息。","我接下來請教一下次長，次長，從442億產業發展的這個2025到2030年的預算當中，其實到目前為止，雖然大家都稱無人機產業是未來的護國神山，可是就我所理解的，這些業者可以區分成創新業者和整合業者，就創新的部分，一年之內可能都生產不到10台POC的展示機，而且有很多現象都是在玩VC、創新、資本的組合，甚至有換金主的現象，一個換過一個，這是第一個，這是創新的一種現象，拿政府資源的一種亂象。第二個，整合業者引進了中國相關的器材，透過洗產地的方式，還有貼標籤的方式，然後簽切結說是非紅供應鏈的方式。針對這種亂象，有沒有可能予以遏止？請次長。"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，有關這個部分，其實工程會已經訂有遙控無人機採購作業指引，要完全遏止紅色供應鏈的產品進到公務部門的採購裡面來，所以我們已經有一套機制去阻擋這些紅色供應鏈的產品進來。"],["郭委員國文：工程會是在今年1月公布的，目標希望在2027年1月達成，針對這些亂象，非紅化跟國產化是一個重要的目標，遙控無人機採購作業指引當中寫得非常清楚。今天要討論的重點是，商用、軍用如何轉換；平、戰時如何轉換，我覺得這非常關鍵。但現實來說卻產生了幾個問題，第一個，在電池供應關鍵原料的部分，不論是電池芯等等，仍是依賴中國的情況底下，我們要如何去紅化？這是第一個；第二個，熱顯像、飛控電腦等等的核心、關鍵零組件設備，都是經濟部要去面對的項目，一來要國產化，二來要非紅化，你砸了這442億，如果有辦法產業化的話，將來才有可能軍用化，不是嗎？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，您這邊所提的一些關鍵零組件，我們現在有透過一些法人科專，已經開始跟產業界、跟法人一起研發。當然目前我們有些無人機產業會從日本、從美國那邊進口這些關鍵零組件做一些組裝，這當然是一個短期的因應做法，長期下來我們還是希望它能夠落地，在國內能夠自主生產這方面的關鍵零組件。這也是我們在統籌型計畫裡面為什麼編了一、兩百億的研發補助經費，就是要來協助產業能夠趕快發展這方面的關鍵……"],["郭委員國文：我想商購跟委製的部分，一定要上有一定比例的調整，過於依賴商購就會影響到委製的發展，影響到國防自主的未來。我想這比例的拿捏，經濟部作為中科院最大的、單一的股東，這個角色非常重要且關鍵。至於非紅化以及國產化目標的達成，就經濟部的角色，應該在這個時候透過這442億的預算把它達成。謝謝。"],["何次長晉滄：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝郭國文委員。接下來我們請陳永康委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-5-19,35,20-1","speakers":["洪毓祥","林楚茵","林沛祥","王安祥","陳亭妃","賴士葆","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","王義川","呂玉玲","劉書彬","王定宇","謝衣鳯","鍾佳濱","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","郭國文","陳永康","蔡易餘","陳超明","邱志偉","李彥秀","鄭正鈐","馬文君","牛煦庭","黃建賓","李坤城","陳冠廷","羅明才","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","羅美玲","林德福","林思銘","傅崐萁","張嘉郡","蘇清泉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1156401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查：一、行政院函請審議「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案；二、本院委員林楚\n茵等17人擬具「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「強化\n國防自主暨無人機產業發展條例草案」案；四、本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防自主無人載具科技發\n展及採購條例草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156401_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}