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那我先就叫國防部因為那時候我們在審1.25教的時候其實我們就希望國防部給我們多資料那這次看起來這個新的這一次提的2100億大概就是這三類兩類的無人機跟一類的無人艇那時候其實我們也拿到一些相關我們建軍的一些資料"},{"start":32.345,"end":51.043,"text":"其實我那時候就提到,對於徵收跟供給前列無人機兩類其實那個時候我們就發現它的作區跟氣氛的時間非常短不曉得現在還是沿用上次的戰規這樣的一個想法不知道國防部有沒有什麼新的想法要說"},{"start":51.881,"end":76.549,"text":"現在文件的部分我們還是維持原版就是原來的嘛吳仁廷的部分本來好像要透過做違背,並沒有做這兩項現在是不是有新的你們有做什麼細分之類的東西嗎吳仁廷的部分我們目前送行政院在做複審已經送出去了,有新的資料"},{"start":77.492,"end":94.817,"text":"因為前面的部分是主要針對我們的規格需求跟國內產能的部分我們有跟委員報告先做一個先期性的評估確認國內的技術備變水準跟產製的形成有辦法滿足我們的需求之後再針對我們的建案文件去做確立"},{"start":97.018,"end":108.091,"text":"在過去這將近半年多的時間我們這個部分已經大概完全都確認完了所以後面的維修訂完之後我們就送行政院做複審"},{"start":109.091,"end":126.818,"text":"所以市長這個資料也可以提供我們這邊做一下參考啦如果可以的話期程資料可以提供委員參考但這個整規書有跟您報告過因為那是機密我知道我知道我等於說這個就是因為本來這裡我這裡是那個都還沒有啦那個時候還沒有是這個我們也可以跟方委員更新好"},{"start":127.398,"end":138.686,"text":"那另外就是說我們那個時候有就是上次其實主要是軍售的部分嘛那其實還有很多的部分那是不是可以說明一下為什麼這一次會特別挑這三類出來"},{"start":141.776,"end":157.816,"text":"針對這三個項目的這個部分我們有幾個考量點第一個它的額度很大第二個它的執行的期程很短它是在六年內然後要完成這兩千一百億的無人採聚的採購"},{"start":159.238,"end":188.458,"text":"那所以如果勉強擠進去公務預算的話形同一年大概要加將近400億左右因為第一年的額度會相對比較低會在後面的五年形成每年大概400多億的增加那之前有個委員報告過因為我們在1.25兆特別預算裡面還有一共有10個項目是沒有納到我們的類似的特別預算裡面所以這個部分"},{"start":189.338,"end":212.951,"text":"我們針對那些部分執行期程比較長,額度比較低,對於我們預算衝擊比較小的我們會採取,我們目前在由行政院研議是採取追加或是採取編列116年公務預算的方式來...是是是,那時候講的是這樣嘛,因為你們很快又用這個特別條例丟出來啦那我再多問一點啦,就現在有兩型無人機嘛,一個無人艇"},{"start":213.911,"end":228.762,"text":"那因為這個我們今天也是聯席啊那因為這個看起來關乎這個版本也是行政院出來這個版本也是在講產業嘛在講一些聚論我們等一下再來處理那這幾行不曉得關乎你們的要求你們是還是覺得應該要是軍規"},{"start":231.484,"end":244.853,"text":"還是可以部分的這個軍用的商規的部分剛剛也有好我聽到也有其他的委員在問這個問題因為這個涉及到包括你要求的這個requirement不大一樣那不曉得現在這三類你們現在的想法是什麼"},{"start":246.281,"end":272.588,"text":"有關於濱海徵收型、濱海攻擊型無人機還有小型自殺無人艇的這個部分是它事實上在國內外的分類裡面它都介於居民通用的類型是所以我才會問這個問題可是它的那個所有的附屬裝備包含它的通信、導航、抗干擾跟其他籌載的那個部分是全部必須按照軍規的標準是"},{"start":273.448,"end":287.378,"text":"所以我想因為這樣子嘛所以今天我們就做聯席其實就是啦因為現在這個無人機的部分啦其實跟傳統我們過去軍購的部分那個要求唯一要軍規可能不大一樣可能有部分就是上規軍用的部分嘛剛剛的那個市長的意思應該是這樣"},{"start":288.86,"end":303.958,"text":"所以這個就是很大的不一樣所以因為在國防部這次國防部的報告裡面我就叫一下經濟部因為剛剛我聽到前面很多委員在講這個事情因為這其實在國防部的報告裡面在第三頁的報告"},{"start":304.378,"end":316.009,"text":"還有提到非常多說他們這個希望能夠通過這樣的預算可以擴大國內產業鏈的佈局跟完整性還有透過國內什麼無人機相關的產業區剛剛很多人問我不曉得經濟部對於國防部這樣他們的說明經濟部你們覺得你們的comment是什麼"},{"start":323.543,"end":340.551,"text":"當然就是說有這一筆這個長期穩定的這個採購的訂單跟預算的話對我們國內的這個無人機的這個產業聚落或產業鏈的發展會是更加的就是具有韌性而且那個產能"},{"start":341.751,"end":354.626,"text":"以及包括未來它的這個在地化的能量的建構我覺得那個是有很大的加分對 剛剛有很多人問嘛就是經濟部怎麼樣跟國防部合作因為看起來大家一直對這個產業"},{"start":356.508,"end":373.337,"text":"透過這些 我們現在是軍事喔 國防上的一些需求或者是預算可以讓我們國內的產業 包括產業鏈能夠更蓬勃的發展不曉得這個經濟部 剛剛很多人在問這個事情怎麼樣跟國防部協助讓真正國內的廠商得到一些協助的機會"},{"start":374.958,"end":397.769,"text":"其實如果我早上有提到就是說我們跟國安部這邊我們會針對他們未來這個軍購的這個需求的部分有哪些技術有可能未來我們國內這邊會有缺口的部分我們會先做輔導那這個部分所以市長對於軍規跟商規的軍用您的看法呢"},{"start":398.531,"end":418.519,"text":"當然我們現在是發展軍民通用這樣的一個技術跟無人機那所以這些規格其實不管是經濟部或國安部你希望的自治率是多少當然我們現在以目前來講國產化的比例的話小型的已經達到七成然後中型已經達到七成譬如說這一次的這個國安部提的這個"},{"start":421.6,"end":449.779,"text":"他是完全要在地化就是要百分之百能夠在地化採購所以能夠達到畢業考驗喔 甚至百分之百 對OK 好 感謝那個中科院最後一點時間啦那個講到無人艇中科院在嗎講到無人艇就會想到你們的會期你們那個不好意思喔 最後這個問題他們回答一下就好你們那個你們現在會期的那個避障的實力可以達到多少任何多少"},{"start":450.561,"end":479.037,"text":"避障的話我們目前都是 你們的會期啊對 Level 3 到 Level 4沒有辦法到 Level 5 嗎 Level 5的話就是全支持目前我們還在跟國外在做合作所以對這次國防部這個問題你們有什麼看法 總括言的部分如果我們有機會的話我們當然是會跟國內外的廠商來合作來符合整個國內的這個標準跟這個作戰需求好 那我們希望大家一起來努力啦 以上"},{"start":482.239,"end":482.261,"text":"好"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:31:19+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T14:31:20.751333+08:00","text":"感謝主席，有請國防部，顧部長好像另有要公。","quality":0.056},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:31:20.751333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T14:31:22.502667+08:00","text":"還要請經濟部。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T14:31:22.502667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T14:31:24.254000+08:00","text":"請國防部和經濟部。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:31:24.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:31:49.103000+08:00","text":"我先就教國防部，我們在審1.25兆預算的時候就希望國防部給我們很多資料，看起來，這次新提的2,100億元大概就分三類，有兩類無人機與一類無人艇，我們也拿到一些建軍相關資料。","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:31:51.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:32:02.256000+08:00","text":"其實我當時就提到，對於偵蒐與攻擊型無人機兩類，我們發現作需跟細分時間非常短，不曉得現在如何？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:32:02.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:32:10.043000+08:00","text":"應該還是沿用上次的戰規想法，國防部有沒有什麼新的想法要說？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-07-16T14:32:10.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:32:13.242000+08:00","text":"沒有，現在文件還是維持原版。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:32:13.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:32:14.202000+08:00","text":"就是原來的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:32:15.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:32:26.046000+08:00","text":"無人艇部分好像本來沒有要做那兩項，不曉得現在如何，你們做了什麼，比如說細分之類嗎？","quality":0.568},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-07-16T14:32:27.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:32:33.588000+08:00","text":"無人艇的部分，我們目前送行政院複審。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:32:33.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:32:34.308000+08:00","text":"已經送出去了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:32:34.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:32:35.529000+08:00","text":"有新的資料？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-07-16T14:32:35.529000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T14:32:36.672000+08:00","text":"送複審。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-07-16T14:32:36.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:32:53.797000+08:00","text":"之前主要是針對規格需求與國內產能，我們也曾向委員報告，是做先期性的評估，確認國內技術備便水準跟產製期程有辦法滿足我們的需求之後，再針對我們的建案文件確立。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-07-16T14:32:56.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:33:07.091000+08:00","text":"過去將近半年多的時間，這部分已經完全都確認完了，所以在後面的微修訂完成之後，我們就送行政院複審。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:33:08.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:33:11.512000+08:00","text":"司長，這份資料也可以提供給我們參考嗎？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-07-16T14:33:12.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:33:17.895000+08:00","text":"期程資料可以提供委員參考，至於整備書向您報告過，那是機密。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:33:18.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:33:23.137000+08:00","text":"我知道，但我本來都沒有，那個時候還沒有。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-07-16T14:33:23.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:33:25.798000+08:00","text":"是，我們可以幫委員更新。好。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:33:26.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:33:37.686000+08:00","text":"另外，上次談的主要是軍售，其實還有很多部分，是不是可以說明一下，這次為什麼特別挑這三類出來？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-07-16T14:33:40.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:33:44.661000+08:00","text":"之所以針對這三個項目，我們有幾個考量點。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-07-16T14:33:44.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:34:11.667000+08:00","text":"第一，其額度很大，第二，執行期程很短，要在六年內完成這2,100億無人機載具的採購，如果勉強擠進公務預算，形同一年大概要加將近400億，因為第一年額度會相對比較低，後面五年就會每年增加四百多億。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-07-16T14:34:13.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:34:42.906000+08:00","text":"我之前向委員報告過，在1.25兆元特別預算中，一共有10個項目沒有納入，所以針對那些執行期程比較長、額度比較低、對於預算衝擊比較小的，目前正由行政院研議，採取追加或編列116年公務預算的方式處理。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:34:43.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:34:47.508000+08:00","text":"是，那時候講的是這樣，因為你們很快地用特別條例丟出來。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:34:48.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:34:49.609000+08:00","text":"我再追問一點。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:34:49.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:35:02.558000+08:00","text":"現有兩型無人機、一型無人艇，由於今天是聯席會議，而國防部的版本，也就是行政院送出來的版本，看起來就是在講產業，我們等一下再處理。","quality":0.702},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:35:04.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:35:06.702000+08:00","text":"對於這幾型設備，不曉得國防部的要求如何？","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:35:07.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:35:13.846000+08:00","text":"你們是覺得仍要軍規，還是可以部分軍用商規？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:35:14.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:35:23.853000+08:00","text":"我剛剛好像也聽到其他委員問這個問題，因為這涉及要求、requirement不大一樣，不曉得國防部現在對於這三類想法是什麼？","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-07-16T14:35:25.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:35:38.204000+08:00","text":"報告委員，關於濱海偵搜型、濱海攻擊型無人機還有小型自殺無人艇，事實上在國內外分類裡都介於軍民通用的類別。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:35:38.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:35:40.565000+08:00","text":"是，所以我才會問這個問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-07-16T14:35:40.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:35:51.228000+08:00","text":"可是其所有附屬裝備，包含通信、導航、抗干擾與其他酬載全都必須按照軍規標準。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:35:52.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:36:10.843000+08:00","text":"所以我們今天開聯繫會議，就是因為無人機跟過去傳統軍購要求唯一軍規不太一樣，可能有部分是商規軍用，司長的意思應該是這樣，而這就是很大的不一樣。","quality":0.754},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:36:13.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:36:15.909000+08:00","text":"針對這次國防部的報告，我就教一下經濟部。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:36:17.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:36:33.228000+08:00","text":"我聽到前面有很多委員都講到這件事情，就是在國防部報告第3頁提到非常多說法，包括希望能夠通過這項預算，因為可以擴大國內產業鏈的布局與完整性，還有形成國內無人機相關產業聚網等等。","quality":0.753},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:36:33.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:36:35.009000+08:00","text":"剛剛都有很多人問，不曉得對於國防部這樣的說明，經濟部的comment是什麼？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T14:36:43.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:37:07.219000+08:00","text":"有這一筆長期、穩定採購的訂單與預算的話，國內無人機產業聚落或產業鏈的發展會更加具有韌性，而且對於其產能以及未來在地化能量的建構，我覺得有很大的加分效果。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:37:07.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:37:11.724000+08:00","text":"對，剛才也有很多委員問經濟部怎麼跟國防部合作？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:37:12.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:37:24.213000+08:00","text":"因為對於這個產業，大家一直希望透過現在軍事、國防上的需求或預算，讓國內產業鏈更蓬勃地發展。","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:37:26.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:37:32.337000+08:00","text":"剛剛很多人問這件事，不曉得經濟部怎麼跟國防部協作，真正讓國內廠商得到機會？","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T14:37:34.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:37:50.306000+08:00","text":"如同我早上提到的，我們會針對國防部未來的軍購需求、哪些技術未來國內可能有缺口先輔導。","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:37:52.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:37:56.749000+08:00","text":"次長對於軍規跟商規軍用的看法呢？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T14:37:57.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:38:06.455000+08:00","text":"現在當然是發展軍民通用這樣的技術與無人機，所以在規格上，不管是經濟部或國防部……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:38:06.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:38:07.975000+08:00","text":"你希望的自製率是多少？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T14:38:10.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:38:16.639000+08:00","text":"以目前國產化的比例來講，小型已經達到7成，中型已經達到6成。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:38:16.639000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T14:38:17.639000+08:00","text":"那這次呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:38:16.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:38:17.499000+08:00","text":"比方說國防部提的呢？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T14:38:20.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:38:26.244000+08:00","text":"他們是要求完全在地化，也就是要能夠百分之百在地化採購，所以要達到……","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:38:27.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:38:28.565000+08:00","text":"愈高愈好，甚至百分之百？對。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:38:28.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:38:29.746000+08:00","text":"好，感謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:38:30.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:38:33.589000+08:00","text":"最後一點時間請教中科院。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:38:34.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:38:41.874000+08:00","text":"講到無人艇，就會想到你們的快奇……不好意思，最後這個問題我請他們回答一下就好。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:38:43.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:38:47.558000+08:00","text":"你們的快奇現在避障實力可以達到多少？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:38:47.558000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T14:38:49.561000+08:00","text":"Level多少？","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"李院長世強","start":"2026-07-16T14:38:49.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:38:54.564000+08:00","text":"避障的話目前都是Level 3到Level 4。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:38:54.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:38:55.945000+08:00","text":"沒有辦法到Level 5嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李院長世強","start":"2026-07-16T14:38:55.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:39:02.128000+08:00","text":"Level 5的話，目前我們還在與國外合作。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:39:02.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:39:04.870000+08:00","text":"所以對於這次國防部的無人艇計畫，中科院有什麼comment？","quality":0.393},{"speaker":"李院長世強","start":"2026-07-16T14:39:07.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:39:15.375000+08:00","text":"如果有機會的話，我們當然會跟國內外廠商合作，以符合國內的標準跟作戰需求。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-16T14:39:15.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T14:39:18.017000+08:00","text":"好，那我希望大家一起努力。以上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T14:39:18.517000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T14:39:20.517000+08:00","text":"謝謝王安祥委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T14:39:20.817000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T14:39:23.959857+08:00","text":"接下來請牛煦庭委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1134,"blocks":[["王委員安祥：（14時31分）感謝主席，有請國防部，顧部長好像另有要公。還要請經濟部。"],["主席：請國防部和經濟部。"],["王委員安祥：我先就教國防部，我們在審1.25兆預算的時候就希望國防部給我們很多資料，看起來，這次新提的2,100億元大概就分三類，有兩類無人機與一類無人艇，我們也拿到一些建軍相關資料。其實我當時就提到，對於偵蒐與攻擊型無人機兩類，我們發現作需跟細分時間非常短，不曉得現在如何？應該還是沿用上次的戰規想法，國防部有沒有什麼新的想法要說？"],["黃司長文啓：沒有，現在文件還是維持原版。"],["王委員安祥：就是原來的？","無人艇部分好像本來沒有要做那兩項，不曉得現在如何，你們做了什麼，比如說細分之類嗎？"],["黃司長文啓：無人艇的部分，我們目前送行政院複審。"],["王委員安祥：已經送出去了？有新的資料？"],["黃司長文啓：送複審。之前主要是針對規格需求與國內產能，我們也曾向委員報告，是做先期性的評估，確認國內技術備便水準跟產製期程有辦法滿足我們的需求之後，再針對我們的建案文件確立。過去將近半年多的時間，這部分已經完全都確認完了，所以在後面的微修訂完成之後，我們就送行政院複審。"],["王委員安祥：司長，這份資料也可以提供給我們參考嗎？"],["黃司長文啓：期程資料可以提供委員參考，至於整備書向您報告過，那是機密。"],["王委員安祥：我知道，但我本來都沒有，那個時候還沒有。"],["黃司長文啓：是，我們可以幫委員更新。"],["王委員安祥：好。","另外，上次談的主要是軍售，其實還有很多部分，是不是可以說明一下，這次為什麼特別挑這三類出來？"],["黃司長文啓：之所以針對這三個項目，我們有幾個考量點。第一，其額度很大，第二，執行期程很短，要在六年內完成這2,100億無人機載具的採購，如果勉強擠進公務預算，形同一年大概要加將近400億，因為第一年額度會相對比較低，後面五年就會每年增加四百多億。我之前向委員報告過，在1.25兆元特別預算中，一共有10個項目沒有納入，所以針對那些執行期程比較長、額度比較低、對於預算衝擊比較小的，目前正由行政院研議，採取追加或編列116年公務預算的方式處理。"],["王委員安祥：是，那時候講的是這樣，因為你們很快地用特別條例丟出來。","我再追問一點。現有兩型無人機、一型無人艇，由於今天是聯席會議，而國防部的版本，也就是行政院送出來的版本，看起來就是在講產業，我們等一下再處理。對於這幾型設備，不曉得國防部的要求如何？你們是覺得仍要軍規，還是可以部分軍用商規？我剛剛好像也聽到其他委員問這個問題，因為這涉及要求、requirement不大一樣，不曉得國防部現在對於這三類想法是什麼？"],["黃司長文啓：報告委員，關於濱海偵搜型、濱海攻擊型無人機還有小型自殺無人艇，事實上在國內外分類裡都介於軍民通用的類別。"],["王委員安祥：是，所以我才會問這個問題。"],["黃司長文啓：可是其所有附屬裝備，包含通信、導航、抗干擾與其他酬載全都必須按照軍規標準。"],["王委員安祥：所以我們今天開聯繫會議，就是因為無人機跟過去傳統軍購要求唯一軍規不太一樣，可能有部分是商規軍用，司長的意思應該是這樣，而這就是很大的不一樣。","針對這次國防部的報告，我就教一下經濟部。我聽到前面有很多委員都講到這件事情，就是在國防部報告第3頁提到非常多說法，包括希望能夠通過這項預算，因為可以擴大國內產業鏈的布局與完整性，還有形成國內無人機相關產業聚網等等。剛剛都有很多人問，不曉得對於國防部這樣的說明，經濟部的comment是什麼？"],["何次長晉滄：有這一筆長期、穩定採購的訂單與預算的話，國內無人機產業聚落或產業鏈的發展會更加具有韌性，而且對於其產能以及未來在地化能量的建構，我覺得有很大的加分效果。"],["王委員安祥：對，剛才也有很多委員問經濟部怎麼跟國防部合作？因為對於這個產業，大家一直希望透過現在軍事、國防上的需求或預算，讓國內產業鏈更蓬勃地發展。剛剛很多人問這件事，不曉得經濟部怎麼跟國防部協作，真正讓國內廠商得到機會？"],["何次長晉滄：如同我早上提到的，我們會針對國防部未來的軍購需求、哪些技術未來國內可能有缺口先輔導。"],["王委員安祥：次長對於軍規跟商規軍用的看法呢？"],["何次長晉滄：現在當然是發展軍民通用這樣的技術與無人機，所以在規格上，不管是經濟部或國防部……"],["王委員安祥：你希望的自製率是多少？"],["何次長晉滄：以目前國產化的比例來講，小型已經達到7成，中型已經達到6成。"],["王委員安祥：那這次呢？比方說國防部提的呢？"],["何次長晉滄：他們是要求完全在地化，也就是要能夠百分之百在地化採購，所以要達到……"],["王委員安祥：愈高愈好，甚至百分之百？"],["何次長晉滄：對。"],["王委員安祥：好，感謝。","最後一點時間請教中科院。講到無人艇，就會想到你們的快奇……不好意思，最後這個問題我請他們回答一下就好。你們的快奇現在避障實力可以達到多少？Level多少？"],["李院長世強：避障的話目前都是Level 3到Level 4。"],["王委員安祥：沒有辦法到Level 5嗎？"],["李院長世強：Level 5的話，目前我們還在與國外合作。"],["王委員安祥：所以對於這次國防部的無人艇計畫，中科院有什麼comment？"],["李院長世強：如果有機會的話，我們當然會跟國內外廠商合作，以符合國內的標準跟作戰需求。"],["王委員安祥：好，那我希望大家一起努力。以上。"],["主席：謝謝王安祥委員。","接下來請牛煦庭委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-5-19,35,20-1","speakers":["洪毓祥","林楚茵","林沛祥","王安祥","陳亭妃","賴士葆","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","王義川","呂玉玲","劉書彬","王定宇","謝衣鳯","鍾佳濱","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","郭國文","陳永康","蔡易餘","陳超明","邱志偉","李彥秀","鄭正鈐","馬文君","牛煦庭","黃建賓","李坤城","陳冠廷","羅明才","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","羅美玲","林德福","林思銘","傅崐萁","張嘉郡","蘇清泉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1156401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查：一、行政院函請審議「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案；二、本院委員林楚\n茵等17人擬具「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「強化\n國防自主暨無人機產業發展條例草案」案；四、本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防自主無人載具科技發\n展及採購條例草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156401_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}