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接下來我們請羅明財委員質詢主席各位初六席官員大家好主席可不可以請經濟部好 請經濟部核次長國防部"},{"start":17.967,"end":38.27,"text":"國安部副總長執行官兩位一起我想 市長今天聆聽了很多委員的發言你有沒有覺得其中的委員講得比較好的"},{"start":42.205,"end":58.689,"text":"我覺得委員都各有不同的角度啦好 那你隨便講十個像我剛剛覺得上一個講的紅委員他就是很專業啊我發現他講的比早上講的這些官員還好你回去不要跟部長講你有沒有覺得因為這個事情討論了以後"},{"start":71.164,"end":100.758,"text":"整個分開來看你就會發現它不是單一的說我要為了做而做打造護國神山沒有人反對啊那我請問你喔那台積電是護國神山以前有沒有編特別預算沒有沒有好那是由哪一座護國神山是因為編特別預算然後感覺有成功的"},{"start":104.946,"end":118.251,"text":"我跟委員報告這次編特別預算是因為國防部他們有這個國防自主的這樣的一個需求那這些需求本來國防部本來就是要採購的那如果說把這些採購的商機能夠留在國內的話我覺得對國內的產業事實上是有幫助的而且許多的國內產業他們也"},{"start":128.015,"end":144.143,"text":"看到這樣的一個長期的訂單的話就願意來加碼投資而且在研發的創新上面多做一些這個努力所以大概概念是國建國造啦大概概念就是說無人機就是我們自己造嘛這個大概這個意思吧是當然我們就是要發展自己的國防產業"},{"start":150.839,"end":172.416,"text":"其實我是很支持的因為我從小就是軍事迷啊那對這個就跟足球一樣我不會踢足球但是足球也看得瞎瞎叫大家也都覺得很精彩很有興趣我也希望下一個無人機的產業我們打世界盃嘛那就牽涉到一個金額的問題啊韓國最近"},{"start":178.82,"end":184.725,"text":"他為了要發展整個整體科技電子業的發展投入多少錢那個 次長投入多少這我沒有去瞭解大概是38兆就是最近的事啊他那個涵蓋面更廣展現他們的信心啊所以你覺得"},{"start":209.212,"end":221.216,"text":"要發展無人機就從無人機的現狀開始說起請問全世界現在無人機做最好的是哪個品牌當然美國 法國都有無人機很好的這個品牌美國哪個牌子Andurial法國Hero"},{"start":238.499,"end":262.485,"text":"就大疆 民眾的部分 對所以當然我們也不是說自己妄自菲薄而是你去世界你世界有一些情況要去問一下因為譬如說AI整個整體整理出來就是NVIDIA系統 對不對"},{"start":264.085,"end":285.382,"text":"AMD啊 那整個你排列下來 Google啊 Amazon啊周邊會買的 OpenAI 往下延伸就會有很多的產業出現嘛因為全世界大家都知道嘛所以你現在要在台灣發展無人機的產業請問你準備投多少錢"},{"start":287.311,"end":307.834,"text":"目前我們已經有一個同仇型計畫從去年到2019年我們總共要編442億元來投入那當然除了這個以外我們還有許多的一些政府的資源包括國發基金這邊他也可以來做一些投資的國發基金準備投多少"},{"start":308.724,"end":328.614,"text":"當然他就要看有適當的案源當然他就會來做投資的支持那國泊金最主要是靠台積電台積電大概我們持有大概是6.5%左右那以現在的市值來看的話台積電總市值是多少"},{"start":333.369,"end":354.101,"text":"根委員報告以現在台積電目前的這個股價來講的話2400塊對 那市值 國家基金這邊大概就接近4兆4兆4兆 4兆 對 我想說大概3點多到4兆那你會不會因為這一次的無人機的發展賣台積電股票不會"},{"start":358.223,"end":387.407,"text":"那台積電股票未來怎麼處理?賣不賣?台積電的股票我想委員很清楚嘛因為其實外資的持股很高所以台積電國發...外資持股應該有70幾%吧所以...雖然我們是比較最大的這個法人股東所以這對於這個穩定來講的話是有幫助的所以我想大院的委員大概也都有提到說不要賣台積電的股票所以台積電不會賣?是OK 好"},{"start":388.047,"end":398.747,"text":"那你如果台積電不要賣的話那你覺得在國發基準部可以運用的資金有多少你要來投入無人機相關"},{"start":399.874,"end":419.43,"text":"跟委員報告我們有各個不同的投資方案有硬體軟體直接投資的創投的百億的這個主題式的基金天使等等那主要都是在支持當新創有需要的時候大概就會有這個好那接著就是會討論到一個問題這個你一個那麼大的一個項目展開了以後有硬體軟體有周邊請問"},{"start":429.094,"end":441.742,"text":"何次長既然你們是主辦是你嘛是不是你有沒有發現在台灣的上市上規公司1900家裡面有幾家跟無人機發展有關的大概有很多的來你旁邊那個有沒有比較了解的"},{"start":452.113,"end":477.934,"text":"有幾家?跟委員報告,其實無人機相關廠商有267家但是裡面有非常多的零組件也是由國內非常知名的業者我覺得你們這樣也不錯因為你就推一個產業出來市長,你也有點小貢獻因為你一推出了以後260家裡面的說要做無人機,有的都還沒開始做股票都漲了30%、50%你有沒有發現這個現象?"},{"start":482.233,"end":506.599,"text":"當然這個就是大家對國內無人機這個產業事實上是很有這個信心你要注意一點 我不是批評喔我以為你這個很好因為現在台灣的產業全部都是AI啦除了半導體AI有AI 大家想我送給我沒有AI 大家愛愛叫 就被愛"},{"start":511.499,"end":528.129,"text":"所以你這樣很好啊那你接下來除了無人機你第二個你還要推什麼那我們現在還有許多的像機器人的這個產業那你就講嘛 講大一點嘛我要做無人機 哇 帶動200多家公司的上漲有的漲30% 漲50%南部有一家連做都還沒做 漲到300多塊"},{"start":533.815,"end":561.994,"text":"你再來講 機器人 你也喊啊對台灣好 我們都支持第三個 還有什麼產業我們現在有推出13個關鍵的產業你要走 要走較招穩 做大一點雨露均沾 只要帶動台灣發展我們都舉雙手贊成 可是一定要小心上次上一波的綠能就變成什麼綠油油"},{"start":563.134,"end":567.478,"text":"然後什麼光電88槍什麼搞得亂七八糟其實我們明代也沒在看那個啦我們在看的是台灣整個未來的經濟的發展產業的帶動這個是最重要的所以我基本上我是支持的啦"},{"start":582.093,"end":602.54,"text":"但我覺得建議護國神山像新北特別我們是新練寶高智慧園區在你所有一個無人機大概品項下大概有幾項兩百多項嘛 零組件什麼的六大模組這樣往下分有多少"},{"start":603.732,"end":626.784,"text":"大概有一兩百項我希望優先在新店寶高智慧園區因為它裡面有很多的晶片鴻海還有相關的什麼國巨機械通通在那個地方請優先來考量精密製造的基地土層樹林那邊五股工業區是產業鏈也優先來考量一下"},{"start":630.406,"end":648.442,"text":"場域測試的話 大海西施政 北海岸的沿海特定的空域也不錯這邊也請你們在推動的時候多多考慮那最後 建立一個MIT無人載具安全認證提升國際競爭力也很重要要做就把它做好"},{"start":649.042,"end":667.386,"text":"做就要做大我們也都知道啦因為紅色供應燕關係整個切斷了以後事實上包括阿拉伯包括很多的國家現在已經都有跟我們買啦可是不要漏氣啊買了半天連續去試飛的時候石價掉三價下來會很漏氣的你上面打的MIT啊你要做好啊"},{"start":673.822,"end":685.852,"text":"所以你們這個產業供應鏈你們要把發揮台積電成功的經驗複製到每一個區塊讓他們串結起來好不好2400億夠不夠"},{"start":688.544,"end":703.245,"text":"沒有 我們現在就是以統籌型計畫我們先來推動再搭配我們那個國防採購的這個特別預算好啦 我們希望這樣來支持產業以前也沒特別預算嘛就是照這樣子年度預算下去做 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:32:43.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:32:45.390000+08:00","text":"主席、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:32:46.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:32:47.710000+08:00","text":"主席，可否請經濟部？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T15:32:48.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:32:49.131000+08:00","text":"好，請經濟部何次長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:32:49.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:32:49.231000+08:00","text":"請國防部。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T15:32:51.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:32:55.591000+08:00","text":"請國防部副總長執行官。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:32:55.591000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T15:32:57.593000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:32:57.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:32:57.834000+08:00","text":"兩位一起。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:33:01.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:33:12.250000+08:00","text":"何次長，您今天聆聽了很多委員的發言，是否覺得其中有委員講得比較好的？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:33:16.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:33:19.146000+08:00","text":"我覺得委員各有不同角度，都是為了我們的產業好。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:33:19.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:33:21.726000+08:00","text":"那這樣好了，你隨便講10個。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:33:21.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:33:32.129000+08:00","text":"像上一位洪委員就講得很專業，我發現他講得比早上一些官員好，你回去可不要跟部長講。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:33:32.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:33:32.329000+08:00","text":"你覺不覺得？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:33:32.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:33:50.727000+08:00","text":"因為這件事情討論了以後，分開來看，就會發現不是單一的為了做而做。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:33:51.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:34:05.654000+08:00","text":"打造護國神山沒有人反對，但我請問你，台積電是護國神山，但以前有沒有編特別預算？沒有。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:34:06.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:34:06.934000+08:00","text":"沒有，好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:34:07.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:34:14.738000+08:00","text":"那有哪一座護國神山感覺是因為編特別預算而成功的？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:34:18.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:34:31.851000+08:00","text":"我向委員報告，這次編特別預算是因為國防部有國防自主的需求，這些需求是國防部本來就要採購的，如果能夠把這些採購商機留在國內的話，我覺得事實上對國內產業是有幫助的。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:34:31.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:34:51.100000+08:00","text":"而且如果許多國內產業看到這樣的長期訂單，也就願意加碼投資，而且在研發、創新上多做一些努力。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:34:51.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:34:56.382000+08:00","text":"所以概念大概就是國艦國造、無人機我們自己造嘛！","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:34:56.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:34:56.842000+08:00","text":"大概是這個意思吧？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:34:57.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:34:58.143000+08:00","text":"我們當然就是要發展我們自己的國防產業。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:35:04.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:35:08.822000+08:00","text":"其實我是很支持的，因為我從小就是軍事迷。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:35:10.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:35:20.131000+08:00","text":"就跟足球一樣，雖然我不會踢足球，但足球也看得嚇嚇叫，大家都覺得很精彩、很有興趣。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:35:20.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:35:26.176000+08:00","text":"我也希望我們在下一個無人機產業能打世界盃，那就牽涉金額問題。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:35:26.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:35:35.942000+08:00","text":"韓國最近為了發展整體科技、電子業投入多少錢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:35:35.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:35:36.043000+08:00","text":"次長，投入多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:35:36.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:35:37.023000+08:00","text":"我沒有去了解。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:35:37.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:35:37.824000+08:00","text":"大概是38兆元，就是最近的事啊！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:35:37.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:35:38.464000+08:00","text":"且涵蓋面更廣，展現他們的信心。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:35:38.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:36:08.274000+08:00","text":"既然你覺得要發展無人機，就從無人機的現狀說起。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:36:10.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:36:13.655000+08:00","text":"請問現在全世界無人機做得最好的是哪個品牌？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:36:13.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:36:14.355000+08:00","text":"當然美國、法國都有很好的無人機品牌。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:36:14.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:36:14.656000+08:00","text":"美國是哪個牌子？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:36:14.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:36:15.136000+08:00","text":"Anduril。法國？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:36:15.136000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T15:36:32.499000+08:00","text":"Parrot。大陸？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:36:32.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:36:35.760000+08:00","text":"就大疆，是民用部分。大疆？對。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:36:38.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:37:10.935000+08:00","text":"當然我們也不是妄自菲薄，而是對世界上的情況也要問一下，比如說AI，整體整理出來，就是以NVIDIA為系統，還有AMD，整個排列下來還有Google、Amazon以及周邊會買的OpenAI，往下延伸就會有很多產業出現，全世界大家都知道。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:37:12.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:37:19.382000+08:00","text":"現在你們要在臺灣發展無人機產業，請問準備投多少錢？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:37:21.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:37:30.621000+08:00","text":"目前我們已經有一項統籌型計畫，從去年到119年總共要編442億元投入。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:37:31.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:37:39.871000+08:00","text":"除了這個以外，還有許多政府資源，包括國發基金也可以透過投資協助。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:37:40.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:37:41.814000+08:00","text":"國發基金準備投多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:37:42.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:37:48.727000+08:00","text":"當然就要看情況，有適當案源就會投資支持。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:37:49.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:37:57.191000+08:00","text":"國發基金最主要是靠台積電，對台積電大概持有6.5%左右吧！","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:37:58.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:38:02.594000+08:00","text":"以現在的市值來看，台積電總市值是多少？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:38:02.594000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T15:38:07.490000+08:00","text":"五十幾兆嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-16T15:38:07.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:38:14.534000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，以台積電目前的股價講的話……2,400塊？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-16T15:38:14.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:38:21.597000+08:00","text":"對，國發基金這邊大概就接近4兆元。10兆？4兆。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:38:22.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:38:24.819000+08:00","text":"對，我想的就是三兆多到4兆。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:38:25.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:38:28.101000+08:00","text":"那你會不會因為這次無人機的發展賣台積電股票？不會。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:38:32.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:38:34.705000+08:00","text":"那台積電股票未來怎麼處理？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:38:35.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:38:36.046000+08:00","text":"賣不賣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-16T15:38:37.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:38:43.512000+08:00","text":"關於台積電的股票，我想委員很清楚，其實外資持股很高，所以國發基金……","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:38:43.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:38:45.974000+08:00","text":"外資持股應該有七十幾趴，有吧？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-16T15:38:47.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:38:59.325000+08:00","text":"是，我們作為最大法人股東，對於穩定是有幫助的，大院委員大概也都提到不要賣台積電股票。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:38:59.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:39:00.646000+08:00","text":"所以台積電不會賣？是。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:39:01.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:39:12.747000+08:00","text":"好，如果台積電不賣的話，你覺得國發基金可以勻用的資金有多少要投入無人機相關發展？","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-16T15:39:15.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:39:17.097000+08:00","text":"我們有各項不同投資方案，會應……是啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:39:18.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:39:20.319000+08:00","text":"有硬體、軟體等。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-16T15:39:20.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:39:30.848000+08:00","text":"對，有直接投資、創投、百億主題式基金、天使等等，主要都是當新創有需要的時候，大概就會有資金供應。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:39:30.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:39:32.469000+08:00","text":"好，接著就討論到一個問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:39:32.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:39:53.461000+08:00","text":"一個那麼大的項目展開以後，有硬體、軟體、周邊，請問何次長，既然主辦是你們，那麼你有沒有發現，在臺灣上市上櫃公司1,900家裡面，有幾家是跟無人機發展有關的？","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:39:53.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:39:54.722000+08:00","text":"大概有很多……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:39:54.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:39:55.662000+08:00","text":"你旁邊那位官員有沒有比較了解？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:40:06.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:40:06.373000+08:00","text":"有幾家？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄒副署長宇新","start":"2026-07-16T15:40:07.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:40:14.980000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實無人機相關廠商有267家，但裡面有非常多零組件也是由國內非常知名的業者製造。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:40:15.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:40:17.602000+08:00","text":"我覺得你們這樣也不錯啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:40:17.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:40:23.747000+08:00","text":"因為你們推了一個產業出來……次長，你也算有點小貢獻啦！","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:40:23.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:40:31.914000+08:00","text":"因為你們推出以後，260家說要做無人機的廠商裡面有些都還沒開始做，股價就漲了30%、50%，你有沒有發現這個現象？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:40:36.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:40:43.555000+08:00","text":"這當然是因為大家對於國內無人機產業事實上很有信心。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:40:44.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:40:44.675000+08:00","text":"你要注意聽喔！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:40:44.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:40:47.516000+08:00","text":"我不是批評，而是說這點很好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:40:48.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:00.419000+08:00","text":"因為現在臺灣的產業全部都是AI，除了半導體，就是AI，有AI，大家生活爽歪歪，沒有AI，大家哀哀叫、很悲哀。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:05.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:06.019000+08:00","text":"所以你這樣很好啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:06.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:07.580000+08:00","text":"那接下來呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:07.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:10.262000+08:00","text":"除了無人機，第二個要推什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:11.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:14.204000+08:00","text":"當然還有許多產業，像機器人、通訊等產業。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:14.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:15.705000+08:00","text":"那你講大一點嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:16.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:22.129000+08:00","text":"做無人機可以帶動兩百多家公司上漲，有的漲30%、有的漲50%，南部有一家連做都還沒做就漲到三百多塊。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:27.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:29.956000+08:00","text":"再來是機器人，你也可以喊啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:30.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:31.758000+08:00","text":"對臺灣好的我們都支持。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:32.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:32.778000+08:00","text":"第三呢？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:33.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:34.860000+08:00","text":"還有什麼產業？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:35.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:40.063000+08:00","text":"行政院現在推出13項關鍵產業。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:40.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:49.109000+08:00","text":"你們要做就全面一點、做大一點、雨露均霑，只要能帶動臺灣發展，我們都舉雙手贊成。","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:49.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:50.450000+08:00","text":"可是要小心啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:52.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:58.996000+08:00","text":"上一波的綠能就變成綠友友、光電88槍等等，搞得亂七八糟！","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:59.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:41:59.636000+08:00","text":"其實我們民代也不看那個啦！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:41:59.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:42:00.637000+08:00","text":"我們看的是整個臺灣未來的經濟發展、產業帶動，這是最重要的。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:42:00.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:42:24.216000+08:00","text":"所以我基本上是支持的，但我就護國神山建議，像是新北，特別是我們新店的寶高智慧園區。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:42:26.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:42:31.698000+08:00","text":"一個無人機下的所有品項大概有幾項？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:42:31.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:42:32.138000+08:00","text":"兩百多項嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:42:33.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:42:33.599000+08:00","text":"如果包含零組件等等。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:42:34.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:42:35.740000+08:00","text":"六大模組。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:42:35.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:42:36.520000+08:00","text":"再往下分有多少？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:42:37.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:42:41.614000+08:00","text":"大概有1、200項。1、200項？對。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:42:41.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:42:55.902000+08:00","text":"我希望優先在新店寶高智慧園區發展，因為裡面有晶片等很多廠商，例如鴻海、國巨、技嘉，統統在那個地方，請優先考量。","quality":0.729},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:42:56.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:43:00.764000+08:00","text":"精密製造基地的部分，土城、樹林、五股工業區那邊是產業鏈，也應優先考量一下。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:43:04.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:43:14.075000+08:00","text":"場域測試的話，淡海新市鎮、北海岸沿海特定空域也不錯，請你們在推動的時候多多考慮。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:43:14.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:43:24.062000+08:00","text":"最後，建立一個MIT無人載具安全認證、提升國際競爭力也很重要，要做就把它做好、做就要做大。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:43:24.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:43:36.785000+08:00","text":"我們也都知道，紅色供應鏈關係整個切斷以後，包括阿拉伯在內，很多國家現在都向我們買了，可是不要漏氣啊！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:43:37.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:43:41.366000+08:00","text":"買了半天，試飛10架掉3架下來可是很漏氣的，上面打了MIT，所以要做好啊！","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:43:48.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:43:59.332000+08:00","text":"對於產業供應鏈，你們要發揮台積電成功的經驗，複製到每一個區塊，讓它們串接起來，好不好？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:43:59.332000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T15:44:00.332000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:43:59.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:43:59.852000+08:00","text":"2,400億夠不夠？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:44:02.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:44:13.519000+08:00","text":"我們現在就是先以統籌型計畫推動，再搭配國防採購特別預算，希望這樣支持產業。好啦！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:44:13.519000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T15:44:14.519000+08:00","text":"一定要按部就班啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-16T15:44:13.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-16T15:44:17.245000+08:00","text":"以前也沒特別預算，就是照年度預算去做。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-07-16T15:44:17.745000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T15:44:18.887857+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T15:44:19.187857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T15:44:21.187857+08:00","text":"謝謝羅明才委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-16T15:44:21.487857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-16T15:44:24.630714+08:00","text":"接下來請郭昱晴委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1356,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（15時32分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好。主席，可否請經濟部？"],["主席：好，請經濟部何次長。"],["羅委員明才：請國防部。"],["主席：請國防部副總長執行官。"],["何次長晉滄：委員好。"],["羅委員明才：兩位一起。何次長，您今天聆聽了很多委員的發言，是否覺得其中有委員講得比較好的？"],["何次長晉滄：我覺得委員各有不同角度，都是為了我們的產業好。"],["羅委員明才：那這樣好了，你隨便講10個。像上一位洪委員就講得很專業，我發現他講得比早上一些官員好，你回去可不要跟部長講。你覺不覺得？因為這件事情討論了以後，分開來看，就會發現不是單一的為了做而做。打造護國神山沒有人反對，但我請問你，台積電是護國神山，但以前有沒有編特別預算？"],["何次長晉滄：沒有。"],["羅委員明才：沒有，好。那有哪一座護國神山感覺是因為編特別預算而成功的？"],["何次長晉滄：我向委員報告，這次編特別預算是因為國防部有國防自主的需求，這些需求是國防部本來就要採購的，如果能夠把這些採購商機留在國內的話，我覺得事實上對國內產業是有幫助的。而且如果許多國內產業看到這樣的長期訂單，也就願意加碼投資，而且在研發、創新上多做一些努力。"],["羅委員明才：所以概念大概就是國艦國造、無人機我們自己造嘛！大概是這個意思吧？"],["何次長晉滄：我們當然就是要發展我們自己的國防產業。"],["羅委員明才：其實我是很支持的，因為我從小就是軍事迷。就跟足球一樣，雖然我不會踢足球，但足球也看得嚇嚇叫，大家都覺得很精彩、很有興趣。","我也希望我們在下一個無人機產業能打世界盃，那就牽涉金額問題。韓國最近為了發展整體科技、電子業投入多少錢？次長，投入多少？"],["何次長晉滄：我沒有去了解。"],["羅委員明才：大概是38兆元，就是最近的事啊！且涵蓋面更廣，展現他們的信心。","既然你覺得要發展無人機，就從無人機的現狀說起。請問現在全世界無人機做得最好的是哪個品牌？"],["何次長晉滄：當然美國、法國都有很好的無人機品牌。"],["羅委員明才：美國是哪個牌子？"],["何次長晉滄：Anduril。"],["羅委員明才：法國？"],["何次長晉滄：Parrot。"],["羅委員明才：大陸？"],["何次長晉滄：就大疆，是民用部分。"],["羅委員明才：大疆？對。當然我們也不是妄自菲薄，而是對世界上的情況也要問一下，比如說AI，整體整理出來，就是以NVIDIA為系統，還有AMD，整個排列下來還有Google、Amazon以及周邊會買的OpenAI，往下延伸就會有很多產業出現，全世界大家都知道。現在你們要在臺灣發展無人機產業，請問準備投多少錢？"],["何次長晉滄：目前我們已經有一項統籌型計畫，從去年到119年總共要編442億元投入。除了這個以外，還有許多政府資源，包括國發基金也可以透過投資協助。"],["羅委員明才：國發基金準備投多少？"],["何次長晉滄：當然就要看情況，有適當案源就會投資支持。"],["羅委員明才：國發基金最主要是靠台積電，對台積電大概持有6.5%左右吧！以現在的市值來看，台積電總市值是多少？五十幾兆嘛！"],["汪執行秘書庭安：跟委員報告，以台積電目前的股價講的話……"],["羅委員明才：2,400塊？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：對，國發基金這邊大概就接近4兆元。"],["羅委員明才：10兆？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：4兆。"],["羅委員明才：對，我想的就是三兆多到4兆。那你會不會因為這次無人機的發展賣台積電股票？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：不會。"],["羅委員明才：那台積電股票未來怎麼處理？賣不賣？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：關於台積電的股票，我想委員很清楚，其實外資持股很高，所以國發基金……"],["羅委員明才：外資持股應該有七十幾趴，有吧？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：是，我們作為最大法人股東，對於穩定是有幫助的，大院委員大概也都提到不要賣台積電股票。"],["羅委員明才：所以台積電不會賣？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：是。"],["羅委員明才：好，如果台積電不賣的話，你覺得國發基金可以勻用的資金有多少要投入無人機相關發展？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：我們有各項不同投資方案，會應……"],["羅委員明才：是啊！有硬體、軟體等。"],["汪執行秘書庭安：對，有直接投資、創投、百億主題式基金、天使等等，主要都是當新創有需要的時候，大概就會有資金供應。"],["羅委員明才：好，接著就討論到一個問題。一個那麼大的項目展開以後，有硬體、軟體、周邊，請問何次長，既然主辦是你們，那麼你有沒有發現，在臺灣上市上櫃公司1,900家裡面，有幾家是跟無人機發展有關的？"],["何次長晉滄：大概有很多……"],["羅委員明才：你旁邊那位官員有沒有比較了解？有幾家？"],["鄒副署長宇新：跟委員報告，其實無人機相關廠商有267家，但裡面有非常多零組件也是由國內非常知名的業者製造。"],["羅委員明才：我覺得你們這樣也不錯啦！因為你們推了一個產業出來……次長，你也算有點小貢獻啦！因為你們推出以後，260家說要做無人機的廠商裡面有些都還沒開始做，股價就漲了30%、50%，你有沒有發現這個現象？"],["何次長晉滄：這當然是因為大家對於國內無人機產業事實上很有信心。"],["羅委員明才：你要注意聽喔！我不是批評，而是說這點很好。因為現在臺灣的產業全部都是AI，除了半導體，就是AI，有AI，大家生活爽歪歪，沒有AI，大家哀哀叫、很悲哀。所以你這樣很好啊！那接下來呢？除了無人機，第二個要推什麼？"],["何次長晉滄：當然還有許多產業，像機器人、通訊等產業。"],["羅委員明才：那你講大一點嘛！做無人機可以帶動兩百多家公司上漲，有的漲30%、有的漲50%，南部有一家連做都還沒做就漲到三百多塊。再來是機器人，你也可以喊啊！對臺灣好的我們都支持。第三呢？還有什麼產業？"],["何次長晉滄：行政院現在推出13項關鍵產業。"],["羅委員明才：你們要做就全面一點、做大一點、雨露均霑，只要能帶動臺灣發展，我們都舉雙手贊成。可是要小心啊！上一波的綠能就變成綠友友、光電88槍等等，搞得亂七八糟！其實我們民代也不看那個啦！我們看的是整個臺灣未來的經濟發展、產業帶動，這是最重要的。所以我基本上是支持的，但我就護國神山建議，像是新北，特別是我們新店的寶高智慧園區。一個無人機下的所有品項大概有幾項？兩百多項嘛！如果包含零組件等等。"],["何次長晉滄：六大模組。"],["羅委員明才：再往下分有多少？"],["何次長晉滄：大概有1、200項。"],["羅委員明才：1、200項？"],["何次長晉滄：對。"],["羅委員明才：我希望優先在新店寶高智慧園區發展，因為裡面有晶片等很多廠商，例如鴻海、國巨、技嘉，統統在那個地方，請優先考量。精密製造基地的部分，土城、樹林、五股工業區那邊是產業鏈，也應優先考量一下。場域測試的話，淡海新市鎮、北海岸沿海特定空域也不錯，請你們在推動的時候多多考慮。","最後，建立一個MIT無人載具安全認證、提升國際競爭力也很重要，要做就把它做好、做就要做大。我們也都知道，紅色供應鏈關係整個切斷以後，包括阿拉伯在內，很多國家現在都向我們買了，可是不要漏氣啊！買了半天，試飛10架掉3架下來可是很漏氣的，上面打了MIT，所以要做好啊！對於產業供應鏈，你們要發揮台積電成功的經驗，複製到每一個區塊，讓它們串接起來，好不好？"],["何次長晉滄：好，謝謝委員。"],["羅委員明才：2,400億夠不夠？"],["何次長晉滄：我們現在就是先以統籌型計畫推動，再搭配國防採購特別預算，希望這樣支持產業。"],["羅委員明才：好啦！一定要按部就班啦！以前也沒特別預算，就是照年度預算去做。謝謝。"],["何次長晉滄：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝羅明才委員。","接下來請郭昱晴委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-5-19,35,20-1","speakers":["洪毓祥","林楚茵","林沛祥","王安祥","陳亭妃","賴士葆","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","王義川","呂玉玲","劉書彬","王定宇","謝衣鳯","鍾佳濱","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","郭國文","陳永康","蔡易餘","陳超明","邱志偉","李彥秀","鄭正鈐","馬文君","牛煦庭","黃建賓","李坤城","陳冠廷","羅明才","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","羅美玲","林德福","林思銘","傅崐萁","張嘉郡","蘇清泉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1156401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查：一、行政院函請審議「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案；二、本院委員林楚\n茵等17人擬具「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「強化\n國防自主暨無人機產業發展條例草案」案；四、本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防自主無人載具科技發\n展及採購條例草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156401_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}