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團體訴訟的部分我們會接受委員的指導"},{"start":591,"end":593,"text":"那另外各項"},{"start":593,"end":596,"text":"我國防部政策的推動都是努力在於"},{"start":596,"end":598,"text":"要穩定這個青年重慶的意願"},{"start":598,"end":600,"text":"那就這個部分確實"},{"start":600,"end":601,"text":"留影的成效"},{"start":601,"end":605,"text":"我想近年這一兩年確實有比較好的進展"},{"start":605,"end":607,"text":"部長我們希望我們持續努力"},{"start":607,"end":609,"text":"好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:40:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:40:48.600000+08:00","text":"主席謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:40:48.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:40:49.800000+08:00","text":"麻煩請顧部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-20T11:40:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:40:51.500000+08:00","text":"請顧部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:40:51.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T11:40:58.285714+08:00","text":"洪委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:40:58.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:40:58.857143+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:40:59.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:41:08.807692+08:00","text":"部長，我們相關的武器裝備很受重視、很重要；另外一個部分，致癌油也是全國人心惶惶擔心的。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:41:09.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:41:17.842105+08:00","text":"我想第一時間，我們國防部應該就已經有接到衛福部相關的通報，就把相關的致癌油給下架了，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:41:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:41:20.800000+08:00","text":"我們軍隊內、部隊內應該是沒有使用到？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:41:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:41:23.750000+08:00","text":"有使用的也都下架了，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:41:24.695652+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:41:45.772727+08:00","text":"有同一個批號的，就是有一個3公升裝的香油共104瓶，就這個部分，除了其他他公告的部分我們做預防性下架之外，檢查的結果是同一個批號的，就這個香油的部分。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:41:46.961538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:41:50.807692+08:00","text":"但現在衛福部公布了總共幾個批號是有問題的？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:41:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:42:00.789474+08:00","text":"油品部分，到現在為止，據我們的副供站所了解，有涉及到同一批批號的就是這一批而已。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:42:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:42:06.793103+08:00","text":"不是副供站，我是說我們國軍弟兄在使用、我們日常生活飲食總是也有……","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:42:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:42:16.647059+08:00","text":"我們的副供站就是提供給國軍……我們有一個副供中心，全國有25個副供站。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:42:21.315789+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:42:26.684211+08:00","text":"我們現在這個油品，因為這是全省都有中嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:42:27.263158+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:42:31.736842+08:00","text":"現在衛福部有公布，光有問題的油品有幾批？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:42:32.153846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:42:32.923077+08:00","text":"你們有沒有掌握？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"梁參謀長永坤","start":"2026-07-20T11:42:33.076923+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:42:33.846154+08:00","text":"我們只有1批。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:42:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:42:38.722222+08:00","text":"不是，衛福部現在公布7批，其他6批都沒有嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:42:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:42:43.687500+08:00","text":"是沒有掌握，還是那個資料沒有對接上？","quality":1},{"speaker":"梁參謀長永坤","start":"2026-07-20T11:42:44.454545+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:43:02.833333+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，如果是以批號的話，我們目前只有1批；如果以同廠商的部分的話，目前整體來講總共有14項的產品是有關聯的廠牌，目前我們都已經全部採取預防性的下架。好。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:43:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:43:06.846154+08:00","text":"那你們有沒有去算過或統計，因為現在也已經事發二十幾天了嘛。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:43:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:43:14.750000+08:00","text":"那我們官兵弟兄過去到現在這3個月（4月到6月），有吃到多少有問題的油品？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:43:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:43:24.750000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，事實上我們的副供中心所轄管的副供站，他所提供的相關油品，我們國軍每個月都會送驗。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:43:26.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:43:42.611111+08:00","text":"在這個事件發生之前我們就會進行送驗，在這個事件之後，我們也將相關的油品都送驗，到7月16號為止完成的檢驗17項都是合格的。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:43:43.391304+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:43:45.869565+08:00","text":"這一批你不是說有問題的油品也有在這裡面嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:43:46.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:43:47.818182+08:00","text":"你們送驗沒有檢查出來？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:43:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:43:49.333333+08:00","text":"有送驗。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:43:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:43:50.909091+08:00","text":"有送驗但沒有檢查出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:43:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:44:05.750000+08:00","text":"因為它是香油，所以它是屬於同一批，屬於福壽健味香油的這個部分，我們也將它完成回收，回收的時候有56瓶是已經開封了，其他部分還沒開封。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:44:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:44:06.857143+08:00","text":"部長，我現在再請教。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:44:07.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:44:23.842105+08:00","text":"過去到現在，因為衛福部從一開始告訴我們1,300公噸是有問題的致癌油，因為這是全民大家要一起努力，國防部身為我們全國官兵的主管機關，我們也要為全國官兵來做一個保障嘛！","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:44:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:44:42.739130+08:00","text":"所以本席現在先問第一個部分，這一次4到6月中聯油品他們所生產的油品有30批，總共兩萬七千多公噸，現在衛福部已經證實有7批是有問題的致癌油。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:44:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:44:50.307692+08:00","text":"那到底我們過去這幾個月裡面，國防部的官兵弟兄在各營區裡面，有使用到、消費到多少的量？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:44:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:44:52+08:00","text":"就屬於那一個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:44:52.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:44:52.800000+08:00","text":"多少的量？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:44:53.833333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:44:56.833333+08:00","text":"衛福部所公布的批號裡面，我們現在就是只有那一批。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"梁參謀長永坤","start":"2026-07-20T11:44:56.833333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T11:44:57.833333+08:00","text":"那一批，對，就……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:44:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:44:58.500000+08:00","text":"其他沒有？沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"梁參謀長永坤","start":"2026-07-20T11:44:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:45:00+08:00","text":"其他沒有。確定？確定。是。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:45:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:45:01.666667+08:00","text":"好，確定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:45:02.190476+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:45:05.428571+08:00","text":"未來這一批主要都是哪一些官兵弟兄吃到？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:45:06.312500+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:45:10.062500+08:00","text":"它有分布到……因為我們有不同的副供站……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:45:11.857143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:45:13.785714+08:00","text":"為什麼國防部相對來講，比較……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:45:13.785714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T11:45:15+08:00","text":"那些項目，單位之前有公布。","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:45:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:45:18.777778+08:00","text":"國防部相對來講，因為進口、採買都有相關的紀錄嘛，對不對？","quality":0.542},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:45:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:45:20.777778+08:00","text":"好，我們都有相關的紀錄。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:45:23.461538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:45:47.782609+08:00","text":"行政院院長在上個禮拜二來立法院專案報告時，有特別提到團體訴訟，他說現在行政院也要協助團體訴訟，這也是為什麼本席過去從上個禮拜到這個禮拜，我一直在追，就是團體訴訟比較有意義的是幾個大的團體，譬如我們的學校，國小、國中、高中，到底有多少被吃到了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:45:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:45:52.838710+08:00","text":"如果真的有吃到的話，教育部應該要協助國小、國中、高中提起團體訴訟。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:45:53.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:45:56.500000+08:00","text":"一樣，我們官兵弟兄多少有吃到？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:45:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:46:07.875000+08:00","text":"有吃到就是事實，中聯油品非常的可惡，應該要針對中聯油品提起團體訴訟，所以未來是不是國防部也要協助我們官兵弟兄提出這樣的一個訴訟？","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:46:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:46:10.727273+08:00","text":"我們會納入考量，應該可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:46:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:46:12.923077+08:00","text":"應該要，不是應該可以吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:46:13.076923+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:46:15.846154+08:00","text":"行政院院長都已經講出來，他說提起團體訴訟啊！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:46:16.347826+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:46:30+08:00","text":"我覺得個別民眾……當然個別民眾要自力救濟，但是如果有一個團體訴訟，尤其國防部是國軍官兵弟兄的主管機關，能夠提出來，當然就是要統一提出來嘛，是不是？是。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:46:31.642857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:46:40.807692+08:00","text":"既然部長有講了，就要做到，因為國人確實還是希望我們官兵弟兄的食用安全也要獲得保障。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:46:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:46:52.750000+08:00","text":"另外，我們看到媒體報導，過去這五年有四千多名志願役的官兵弟兄提前解約，到底他的主要原因是什麼？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:46:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:46:54.600000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:46:55.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:46:59.857143+08:00","text":"部長，畢竟你擔任部長也一、兩年的時間，你的掌握狀況如何？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:47:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:47:11.454545+08:00","text":"是，跟委員報告，我要特別再跟委員說明一下，提前退伍的人數從113年開始是往下掉的，也就是你剛剛講的是……","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:47:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:47:13.714286+08:00","text":"媒體報導是不是……他五……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:47:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:47:14.857143+08:00","text":"媒體報導的是不是事實？","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:47:15.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:47:18+08:00","text":"媒體報導的是一個總……大概五年吧，是不是？4,267名。","quality":0.526},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:47:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:47:36.363636+08:00","text":"但是事實上，113年已經比112年降了405人；114年又比113年降了1,652人；從115年7月1日開始往前看來講，應該也是往下掉的趨勢，也就是……對啦！部長……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:47:37.090909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:47:37.818182+08:00","text":"提前退伍的人數基本上是往下的。","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:47:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:47:45.833333+08:00","text":"對，過去五年有四千多位是事實嘛，現在還有五億多的費用沒有收回來，這也是事實嘛！","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:47:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:47:47.666667+08:00","text":"五億多的費用……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:47:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:47:48.857143+08:00","text":"本席現在想要請教……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:47:49.272727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:47:56.769231+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為現在有一些是分期，都還是如期地交付，真正有逾期的部分……","quality":0.677},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:47:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:47:58.500000+08:00","text":"該拿回來的，一定會拿回來嘛……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:47:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:48:00.500000+08:00","text":"大概有七十八萬多……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:48:00.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T11:48:01.500000+08:00","text":"不然的話，我們會打官司，本席現在要問……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:48:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:48:03.727273+08:00","text":"有逾期的部分大概是七十八萬多啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:48:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:48:15.777778+08:00","text":"部長，我很持平地講，我只是關心這個議題，因為這個是媒體的報導，而這樣的一個數字，我也不希望讓國人對於我們國軍沒有信心。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:48:16.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:48:27.750000+08:00","text":"服志願役者，他當初會簽下來，一定有他的考量，如果沒有太特別的理由，我想他會服滿他的合約，這應該也是一般人之常情。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:48:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:48:34.333333+08:00","text":"但是過去這五年，確實有將近五千人選擇先離開，他的個別理由是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:48:34.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:48:36.846154+08:00","text":"我們不知道，但是最大宗的理由到底是什麼？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:48:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:48:38.714286+08:00","text":"部長有沒有掌握？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:48:39.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:48:40.777778+08:00","text":"我想我還是要先說明……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:48:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:48:57.833333+08:00","text":"或者是未來我們可以怎麼樣針對這個部分再去強化，讓志願役在簽下去的時候，他是可以真的跟部隊一起持續往前走，讓他也覺得有信心，在部隊裡面能有成長、有獲利，能夠學習，他就不會想要離開了，不是嗎？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:48:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:49:00.777778+08:00","text":"是，我想委員指導的是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:49:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:49:18.772727+08:00","text":"所以我想第一點說明就是，提前退伍的人數確實是往下掉，而志願役的人數確實都是在增加；總體來講，就是提前退伍的人數是呈現往下掉的趨勢，總體的人數，志願役已經增加了三千多個人。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:49:19.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:49:45.733333+08:00","text":"另外以申請來看的話，大家在申請提前退伍的時候，都會提到個人的生涯規劃等等，如果要有更詳細的統計資料，包括生涯規劃或者是家庭因素等等，我想這個部分可以再做一個詳細的說明。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:49:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:50:08.750000+08:00","text":"部長，本席持一個衷心的建議，就是讓國軍弟兄都覺得進入到國軍大家庭就是一體的，國防部是大家的後盾，能夠幫大家獲得保障，不管是職涯、不管是生涯，都有一定的保障時，大家才會願意待下來，如同一般公司一樣，老闆、員工從上到下一體努力。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:50:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:50:26.333333+08:00","text":"所以這也是為什麼我剛剛再扣回來前面講的，團體訴訟一定要打，我們身為國軍弟兄的主管機關，我們要一起幫國軍弟兄，至少在這件事情上面，讓國軍弟兄也覺得在這個家庭裡面是有獲得保障的，你能夠拿回多少費用？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:50:26.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:50:35.750000+08:00","text":"不知道，但至少我們展現一個態度，就是國軍弟兄在國軍服役的時候，有相關的事情是可以獲得保障，這樣好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:50:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:50:38.833333+08:00","text":"是，團體訴訟的部分，我們會接受委員的指導。好。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:50:39.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:50:52.764706+08:00","text":"另外，各項國防部政策的推動，都是在於努力穩定青年從軍的意願，就這個部分，留營的成效我想這一、兩年確實有比較好的進展。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:50:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:50:53.500000+08:00","text":"好，部長，我們要繼續努力，好不好？","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T11:50:53.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:50:54.833333+08:00","text":"我希望我們持續努力。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-07-20T11:50:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T11:50:56.333333+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-20T11:50:56.833333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T11:50:57.833333+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-20T11:50:58.133333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T11:51:01.847619+08:00","text":"接下來請洪毓祥委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":509,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時40分）主席謝謝。麻煩請顧部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：洪委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長好。部長，我們相關的武器裝備很受重視、很重要；另外一個部分，致癌油也是全國人心惶惶擔心的。我想第一時間，我們國防部應該就已經有接到衛福部相關的通報，就把相關的致癌油給下架了，對不對？我們軍隊內、部隊內應該是沒有使用到？有使用的也都下架了，是不是？"],["顧部長立雄：有同一個批號的，就是有一個3公升裝的香油共104瓶，就這個部分，除了其他他公告的部分我們做預防性下架之外，檢查的結果是同一個批號的，就這個香油的部分。"],["洪委員孟楷：但現在衛福部公布了總共幾個批號是有問題的？"],["顧部長立雄：油品部分，到現在為止，據我們的副供站所了解，有涉及到同一批批號的就是這一批而已。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是副供站，我是說我們國軍弟兄在使用、我們日常生活飲食總是也有……"],["顧部長立雄：我們的副供站就是提供給國軍……我們有一個副供中心，全國有25個副供站。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們現在這個油品，因為這是全省都有中嘛！現在衛福部有公布，光有問題的油品有幾批？你們有沒有掌握？"],["梁參謀長永坤：我們只有1批。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，衛福部現在公布7批，其他6批都沒有嗎？是沒有掌握，還是那個資料沒有對接上？"],["梁參謀長永坤：跟委員報告，如果是以批號的話，我們目前只有1批；如果以同廠商的部分的話，目前整體來講總共有14項的產品是有關聯的廠牌，目前我們都已經全部採取預防性的下架。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。那你們有沒有去算過或統計，因為現在也已經事發二十幾天了嘛。那我們官兵弟兄過去到現在這3個月（4月到6月），有吃到多少有問題的油品？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，事實上我們的副供中心所轄管的副供站，他所提供的相關油品，我們國軍每個月都會送驗。在這個事件發生之前我們就會進行送驗，在這個事件之後，我們也將相關的油品都送驗，到7月16號為止完成的檢驗17項都是合格的。"],["洪委員孟楷：這一批你不是說有問題的油品也有在這裡面嗎？你們送驗沒有檢查出來？"],["顧部長立雄：有送驗。"],["洪委員孟楷：有送驗但沒有檢查出來？"],["顧部長立雄：因為它是香油，所以它是屬於同一批，屬於福壽健味香油的這個部分，我們也將它完成回收，回收的時候有56瓶是已經開封了，其他部分還沒開封。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我現在再請教。過去到現在，因為衛福部從一開始告訴我們1,300公噸是有問題的致癌油，因為這是全民大家要一起努力，國防部身為我們全國官兵的主管機關，我們也要為全國官兵來做一個保障嘛！所以本席現在先問第一個部分，這一次4到6月中聯油品他們所生產的油品有30批，總共兩萬七千多公噸，現在衛福部已經證實有7批是有問題的致癌油。那到底我們過去這幾個月裡面，國防部的官兵弟兄在各營區裡面，有使用到、消費到多少的量？"],["顧部長立雄：就屬於那一個……"],["洪委員孟楷：多少的量？"],["顧部長立雄：衛福部所公布的批號裡面，我們現在就是只有那一批。"],["梁參謀長永坤：那一批，對，就……"],["洪委員孟楷：其他沒有？"],["顧部長立雄：沒有。"],["梁參謀長永坤：其他沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：確定？"],["梁參謀長永坤：確定。"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，確定。未來這一批主要都是哪一些官兵弟兄吃到？"],["顧部長立雄：它有分布到……因為我們有不同的副供站……"],["洪委員孟楷：為什麼國防部相對來講，比較……"],["顧部長立雄：那些項目，單位之前有公布。"],["洪委員孟楷：國防部相對來講，因為進口、採買都有相關的紀錄嘛，對不對？好，我們都有相關的紀錄。行政院院長在上個禮拜二來立法院專案報告時，有特別提到團體訴訟，他說現在行政院也要協助團體訴訟，這也是為什麼本席過去從上個禮拜到這個禮拜，我一直在追，就是團體訴訟比較有意義的是幾個大的團體，譬如我們的學校，國小、國中、高中，到底有多少被吃到了？如果真的有吃到的話，教育部應該要協助國小、國中、高中提起團體訴訟。一樣，我們官兵弟兄多少有吃到？有吃到就是事實，中聯油品非常的可惡，應該要針對中聯油品提起團體訴訟，所以未來是不是國防部也要協助我們官兵弟兄提出這樣的一個訴訟？"],["顧部長立雄：我們會納入考量，應該可以。"],["洪委員孟楷：應該要，不是應該可以吧！行政院院長都已經講出來，他說提起團體訴訟啊！我覺得個別民眾……當然個別民眾要自力救濟，但是如果有一個團體訴訟，尤其國防部是國軍官兵弟兄的主管機關，能夠提出來，當然就是要統一提出來嘛，是不是？"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：既然部長有講了，就要做到，因為國人確實還是希望我們官兵弟兄的食用安全也要獲得保障。另外，我們看到媒體報導，過去這五年有四千多名志願役的官兵弟兄提前解約，到底他的主要原因是什麼？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，畢竟你擔任部長也一、兩年的時間，你的掌握狀況如何？"],["顧部長立雄：是，跟委員報告，我要特別再跟委員說明一下，提前退伍的人數從113年開始是往下掉的，也就是你剛剛講的是……"],["洪委員孟楷：媒體報導是不是……"],["顧部長立雄：他五……"],["洪委員孟楷：媒體報導的是不是事實？"],["顧部長立雄：媒體報導的是一個總……大概五年吧，是不是？"],["洪委員孟楷：4,267名。"],["顧部長立雄：但是事實上，113年已經比112年降了405人；114年又比113年降了1,652人；從115年7月1日開始往前看來講，應該也是往下掉的趨勢，也就是……"],["洪委員孟楷：對啦！部長……"],["顧部長立雄：提前退伍的人數基本上是往下的。"],["洪委員孟楷：對，過去五年有四千多位是事實嘛，現在還有五億多的費用沒有收回來，這也是事實嘛！"],["顧部長立雄：五億多的費用……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席現在想要請教……"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，因為現在有一些是分期，都還是如期地交付，真正有逾期的部分……"],["洪委員孟楷：該拿回來的，一定會拿回來嘛……"],["顧部長立雄：大概有七十八萬多……"],["洪委員孟楷：不然的話，我們會打官司，本席現在要問……"],["顧部長立雄：有逾期的部分大概是七十八萬多啦！"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我很持平地講，我只是關心這個議題，因為這個是媒體的報導，而這樣的一個數字，我也不希望讓國人對於我們國軍沒有信心。服志願役者，他當初會簽下來，一定有他的考量，如果沒有太特別的理由，我想他會服滿他的合約，這應該也是一般人之常情。但是過去這五年，確實有將近五千人選擇先離開，他的個別理由是什麼？我們不知道，但是最大宗的理由到底是什麼？部長有沒有掌握？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我還是要先說明……"],["洪委員孟楷：或者是未來我們可以怎麼樣針對這個部分再去強化，讓志願役在簽下去的時候，他是可以真的跟部隊一起持續往前走，讓他也覺得有信心，在部隊裡面能有成長、有獲利，能夠學習，他就不會想要離開了，不是嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：是，我想委員指導的是。所以我想第一點說明就是，提前退伍的人數確實是往下掉，而志願役的人數確實都是在增加；總體來講，就是提前退伍的人數是呈現往下掉的趨勢，總體的人數，志願役已經增加了三千多個人。另外以申請來看的話，大家在申請提前退伍的時候，都會提到個人的生涯規劃等等，如果要有更詳細的統計資料，包括生涯規劃或者是家庭因素等等，我想這個部分可以再做一個詳細的說明。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，本席持一個衷心的建議，就是讓國軍弟兄都覺得進入到國軍大家庭就是一體的，國防部是大家的後盾，能夠幫大家獲得保障，不管是職涯、不管是生涯，都有一定的保障時，大家才會願意待下來，如同一般公司一樣，老闆、員工從上到下一體努力。所以這也是為什麼我剛剛再扣回來前面講的，團體訴訟一定要打，我們身為國軍弟兄的主管機關，我們要一起幫國軍弟兄，至少在這件事情上面，讓國軍弟兄也覺得在這個家庭裡面是有獲得保障的，你能夠拿回多少費用？不知道，但至少我們展現一個態度，就是國軍弟兄在國軍服役的時候，有相關的事情是可以獲得保障，這樣好嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：是，團體訴訟的部分，我們會接受委員的指導。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。"],["顧部長立雄：另外，各項國防部政策的推動，都是在於努力穩定青年從軍的意願，就這個部分，留營的成效我想這一、兩年確實有比較好的進展。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，部長，我們要繼續努力，好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：我希望我們持續努力。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來請洪毓祥委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":386,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-35-27","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳永康","牛煦庭","王義川","林楚茵","沈伯洋","馬文君","王安祥","黃建賓","許忠信","謝龍介","郭昱晴","洪孟楷","洪毓祥","賴士葆","徐巧芯","王鴻薇","葉元之","陳冠廷","黃仁","王定宇"],"page_start":325,"meetingDate":["2026-07-20"],"gazette_id":"1156401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國軍軍品採購履約爭議與違約致獲裝期程延宕採購策略精進作\n為」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1156401_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}