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謝謝"},{"start":12.100000000000001,"end":13.46,"text":"好 有請院長"},{"start":16.65,"end":19.65,"text":"院長好 恭喜院長"},{"start":19.65,"end":22.65,"text":"那 因為今天是院長第一次來"},{"start":22.65,"end":24.65,"text":"想跟院長請教幾個問題"},{"start":24.65,"end":28.15,"text":"第一個 其實院長您在之前在那副總統的時候"},{"start":28.15,"end":30.15,"text":"主要是在推年金改革嘛"},{"start":30.15,"end":33.65,"text":"那我記得你那時候為了要告訴大家說"},{"start":33.65,"end":35.15,"text":"其實你也會受到影響"},{"start":35.15,"end":38.65,"text":"您當時說如果你退休之後你的是十萬塊"},{"start":38.65,"end":41.65,"text":"但是如果改革之後你每個月六萬三"},{"start":41.65,"end":44.15,"text":"省吃儉用是夠的 以身作則"},{"start":44.15,"end":47.15,"text":"然後就說你其實不是大家受影響"},{"start":47.15,"end":48.15,"text":"你也有受影響"},{"start":48.15,"end":50.65,"text":"但實際上你完全沒受到影響"},{"start":50.65,"end":55.65,"text":"為什麼呢 因為你從2017到現在2026你都沒退休"},{"start":55.65,"end":60.15,"text":"你那個2020這個卸下副總統的職務嘛"},{"start":60.15,"end":65.15,"text":"然後沒多久應該是就立刻就接了中研院的特聘研究員"},{"start":65.15,"end":67.15,"text":"當時月薪也是49萬"},{"start":67.15,"end":71.15,"text":"然後呢再來就是特聘研究員做到2023"},{"start":71.15,"end":73.15,"text":"就當行政院長"},{"start":73.15,"end":75.15,"text":"當行政院長"},{"start":75.15,"end":78.15,"text":"那你那時候可能就是"},{"start":78.15,"end":80.15,"text":"我不知道你有做個承諾嘛"},{"start":80.15,"end":83.15,"text":"因為你可能要告訴大家說其實你也沒有那麼喜歡當官啦"},{"start":83.15,"end":86.65,"text":"你這個行政院長就是你的最後的公職了"},{"start":86.65,"end":90.65,"text":"但是沒有想到行政院長下來之後你又回特聘研究員"},{"start":90.65,"end":93.15,"text":"現在又接了中研院院長"},{"start":93.15,"end":95.65,"text":"其實你有打破你當時的說法"},{"start":95.65,"end":97.15,"text":"我是有看到你早上有回啦"},{"start":97.15,"end":98.65,"text":"你說說學術工作不一樣"},{"start":98.65,"end":100.65,"text":"結果工作你就做特聘研究員就好了"},{"start":100.65,"end":102.65,"text":"為什麼一定要做院長 不一樣"},{"start":102.65,"end":106.65,"text":"你如果不是做行政職公職的話你不用來這裡啊"},{"start":106.65,"end":108.65,"text":"我們不會去質詢特聘研究員"},{"start":108.65,"end":110.65,"text":"所以還是不一樣"},{"start":110.65,"end":114.65,"text":"院長的工作是同仁推薦提名"},{"start":114.65,"end":117.65,"text":"然後林仙委員會審查"},{"start":117.65,"end":121.65,"text":"然後再經由這個我們的評議會投票"},{"start":121.65,"end":122.65,"text":"當然有程序嘛"},{"start":122.65,"end":124.65,"text":"不可能是從天而降嘛"},{"start":124.65,"end":126.65,"text":"我的意思是說你個人的意願"},{"start":126.65,"end":128.65,"text":"因為那個時候行政院長的時候你就說"},{"start":128.65,"end":130.65,"text":"那是你最後的公職"},{"start":130.65,"end":132.65,"text":"院長都是從特聘研究員"},{"start":132.65,"end":134.65,"text":"都是從院士當中選的"},{"start":134.65,"end":136.65,"text":"這兩回事 別的特聘研究員沒有說"},{"start":136.65,"end":138.65,"text":"沒有說他的前一個是他的最後公職"},{"start":138.65,"end":140.65,"text":"但你有這樣的承諾嗎"},{"start":140.65,"end":142.65,"text":"可能是因為你做過副總統這麼高的位置"},{"start":142.65,"end":144.65,"text":"再去接行政院長"},{"start":144.65,"end":146.65,"text":"也許你覺得要跟社會大眾一個承諾"},{"start":146.65,"end":148.65,"text":"這個是我最後一個公職"},{"start":148.65,"end":150.65,"text":"可是下來之後你又接了中研院院長"},{"start":150.65,"end":152.65,"text":"我覺得這就是有打破承諾啦"},{"start":152.65,"end":154.65,"text":"我也有聽你早上回答其他委員啦"},{"start":154.65,"end":156.65,"text":"但我覺得那個說法"},{"start":156.65,"end":158.65,"text":"你喜歡學術是一回事"},{"start":158.65,"end":160.65,"text":"但你再任公職又是另外一回事"},{"start":160.65,"end":162.65,"text":"這是一個承諾問題"},{"start":162.65,"end":164.65,"text":"那我現在就凝結中研院院長"},{"start":164.65,"end":166.65,"text":"這個事情跟你請教一下"},{"start":166.65,"end":168.65,"text":"第一個"},{"start":169.32,"end":173.32,"text":"因為院長你現在是75歲了嘛"},{"start":173.32,"end":175.32,"text":"那我們都知道中研院院長"},{"start":175.32,"end":177.32,"text":"是可以做5年啦"},{"start":177.32,"end":179.32,"text":"所以你卸任大概是80歲"},{"start":179.32,"end":181.32,"text":"那中研院院長可以再任一次嘛"},{"start":181.32,"end":183.32,"text":"所以再接一次就是"},{"start":183.32,"end":185.32,"text":"可能會到85歲卸任"},{"start":185.32,"end":187.32,"text":"您目前是"},{"start":187.32,"end":189.32,"text":"應該是做得好就繼續連任嘛"},{"start":189.32,"end":193.32,"text":"這個我是天主徒啦"},{"start":193.32,"end":195.32,"text":"天主的安排"},{"start":195.32,"end":197.32,"text":"才是我最後的衣櫃啦"},{"start":197.32,"end":199.32,"text":"不是這個說什麼相關"},{"start":199.32,"end":201.32,"text":"我是問說"},{"start":201.32,"end":203.32,"text":"你做到這一任到80歲嘛"},{"start":203.32,"end":205.32,"text":"我現在的安排就是做到80歲"},{"start":205.32,"end":207.32,"text":"所以到時候沒有考慮要連任是不是"},{"start":207.32,"end":209.32,"text":"連不連任我就講"},{"start":209.32,"end":211.32,"text":"到時候看天主的安排"},{"start":211.93,"end":213.93,"text":"我說老實話"},{"start":213.93,"end":215.93,"text":"當任中研院院長我也是掙扎了一段時間"},{"start":215.93,"end":217.93,"text":"也掙扎"},{"start":217.93,"end":219.93,"text":"所以意思就是說你現在目前的規劃只有到80"},{"start":219.93,"end":221.93,"text":"但是我到時候"},{"start":221.93,"end":223.93,"text":"再看看嘛對不對"},{"start":223.93,"end":225.93,"text":"如果做得好或是有人在推薦你什麼"},{"start":225.93,"end":227.93,"text":"你就繼續做嘛"},{"start":227.93,"end":229.93,"text":"我想這是假設性的問題啦"},{"start":229.93,"end":231.93,"text":"因為這個以前"},{"start":231.93,"end":233.93,"text":"中研院院長年紀最大"},{"start":233.93,"end":235.93,"text":"是退休是李遠哲嗎"},{"start":235.93,"end":237.93,"text":"不是"},{"start":237.93,"end":239.93,"text":"你搞錯了"},{"start":239.93,"end":241.93,"text":"吳大友是幾歲"},{"start":241.93,"end":243.93,"text":"他開始擔任的時候"},{"start":243.93,"end":245.93,"text":"我記得是77"},{"start":245.93,"end":247.93,"text":"退下來的時候"},{"start":247.93,"end":249.93,"text":"他87還是88"},{"start":249.93,"end":251.93,"text":"所以那個"},{"start":251.93,"end":253.93,"text":"你就算85也沒有"},{"start":253.93,"end":255.93,"text":"超過他啦"},{"start":255.93,"end":257.93,"text":"我想這是假設性的問題啦"},{"start":257.93,"end":259.93,"text":"今天在這裡討論沒有意思"},{"start":259.93,"end":261.93,"text":"沒有意思沒關係"},{"start":261.93,"end":263.93,"text":"然後再來第二個"},{"start":263.93,"end":265.93,"text":"這個就不是假設性問題"},{"start":265.93,"end":267.93,"text":"第二個問題是因為"},{"start":267.93,"end":269.93,"text":"院長您我們都期許"},{"start":269.93,"end":271.93,"text":"中研院院長應該要很行政中立"},{"start":271.93,"end":273.93,"text":"但因為過去您"},{"start":273.93,"end":275.93,"text":"政治的背景"},{"start":275.93,"end":277.93,"text":"比較多啦"},{"start":277.93,"end":279.93,"text":"你也服選非常多次"},{"start":279.93,"end":281.93,"text":"你在你的位置上尤其是在"},{"start":281.93,"end":283.93,"text":"特聘研究員的位置上也有做過"},{"start":283.93,"end":285.93,"text":"服選"},{"start":285.93,"end":287.93,"text":"我不知道說您現在"},{"start":287.93,"end":289.93,"text":"當了院長還會不會"},{"start":289.93,"end":291.93,"text":"服選因為好像我記得2022年"},{"start":291.93,"end":293.93,"text":"那時候是特聘研究員嘛"},{"start":293.93,"end":295.93,"text":"那時候還擔任民進黨台北市長"},{"start":295.93,"end":297.93,"text":"候選人陳時中的主任委員"},{"start":297.93,"end":299.93,"text":"然後多次幫他站台"},{"start":299.93,"end":301.93,"text":"但那時候你說按照規定"},{"start":301.93,"end":303.93,"text":"雖然是按照規定但是相較"},{"start":303.93,"end":305.93,"text":"其他的特聘研究員您的站台次數"},{"start":305.93,"end":307.93,"text":"跟參與政黨的活動的次數"},{"start":307.93,"end":309.93,"text":"是明顯高於其他的特聘研究員"},{"start":309.93,"end":311.93,"text":"那現在又不一樣了"},{"start":311.93,"end":313.93,"text":"現在是中研院院長"},{"start":313.93,"end":315.93,"text":"就不可以了"},{"start":315.93,"end":317.93,"text":"絕對不會是服選嘛不會參加服選嘛"},{"start":317.93,"end":319.93,"text":"就是行政中立法裡面"},{"start":319.93,"end":321.93,"text":"就規定的很清楚"},{"start":321.93,"end":323.93,"text":"我做什麼角色就扮演這個角色"},{"start":323.93,"end":325.93,"text":"一定不會參與服選"},{"start":325.93,"end":327.93,"text":"那對於通方政黨背書這些呢"},{"start":329.26,"end":333.26,"text":"我想你現在又問了很多假設性的問題"},{"start":333.26,"end":335.26,"text":"這不是假設性問題"},{"start":335.26,"end":337.26,"text":"該遵守行政中立的我一定遵守"},{"start":337.26,"end":339.26,"text":"我覺得前一任廖俊志院長"},{"start":339.26,"end":341.26,"text":"就蠻有風骨的"},{"start":341.26,"end":343.26,"text":"譬如說"},{"start":343.26,"end":345.26,"text":"剛剛我看到其他委員在講能源的問題"},{"start":345.26,"end":347.26,"text":"行政院一直告訴大家說"},{"start":347.26,"end":349.26,"text":"台灣不缺電"},{"start":349.26,"end":351.26,"text":"但廖俊志院長根據他的分析研究"},{"start":351.26,"end":353.26,"text":"其實那時候我也在這邊問他"},{"start":353.26,"end":355.26,"text":"他就擺明了他說2050年"},{"start":355.26,"end":357.26,"text":"我們要做到淨銀碳排"},{"start":357.26,"end":359.26,"text":"同時間又要不缺電"},{"start":359.26,"end":361.26,"text":"是非常困難的事情"},{"start":361.26,"end":363.26,"text":"我覺得他就有把知識份子的那種"},{"start":363.26,"end":365.26,"text":"擔憂講出來"},{"start":365.26,"end":367.26,"text":"他的數據跟行政院的數據就不一樣"},{"start":367.26,"end":369.26,"text":"因為行政院總是喜歡粉飾太平"},{"start":369.26,"end":371.26,"text":"但中研院的研究不一樣"},{"start":371.26,"end":373.26,"text":"他就很大聲講出來"},{"start":373.26,"end":375.26,"text":"所以我們期許過程"},{"start":375.26,"end":377.26,"text":"我也會這樣子"},{"start":377.26,"end":379.26,"text":"40到哪裡我就講到哪裡"},{"start":379.26,"end":381.26,"text":"絕對沒有所謂的政黨考慮"},{"start":381.26,"end":383.26,"text":"你放心"},{"start":383.26,"end":385.26,"text":"然後再來喔院長"},{"start":385.26,"end":387.26,"text":"剛剛我提到年紀的問題"},{"start":387.26,"end":389.26,"text":"其實不是說年紀大不好"},{"start":389.26,"end":391.26,"text":"年紀大但是能夠奉獻社會"},{"start":391.26,"end":393.26,"text":"都是好事"},{"start":393.26,"end":395.26,"text":"我在之前有一個提案"},{"start":395.26,"end":397.26,"text":"跟院長報告"},{"start":397.26,"end":399.26,"text":"因為你做過行政院院長"},{"start":399.26,"end":401.26,"text":"跟你們報告"},{"start":401.26,"end":403.26,"text":"我是很關心教育"},{"start":403.26,"end":405.26,"text":"現在教育的現場發生掉失慌的問題"},{"start":405.26,"end":407.26,"text":"找不到老師"},{"start":407.26,"end":409.26,"text":"正式老師有的考上不報到"},{"start":409.26,"end":411.26,"text":"以前都說有流浪老師"},{"start":411.26,"end":413.26,"text":"現在是代理老師找不到"},{"start":413.26,"end":415.26,"text":"其中一個原因"},{"start":415.26,"end":417.26,"text":"當然就是環境不好"},{"start":417.26,"end":419.26,"text":"老師不受到尊重"},{"start":419.26,"end":421.26,"text":"被濫述"},{"start":421.26,"end":423.26,"text":"有一個部分原因是業界的薪資比較高"},{"start":423.26,"end":425.26,"text":"像所以理化老師那些都比較難找"},{"start":425.26,"end":427.26,"text":"有很多原因"},{"start":427.26,"end":429.26,"text":"所以我就提一個案"},{"start":429.26,"end":431.26,"text":"學校因為"},{"start":430.19,"end":432.19,"text":"找不到人怎麼辦呢"},{"start":432.19,"end":434.19,"text":"就拜託退休老師回來幫忙"},{"start":434.06,"end":436.06,"text":"然後退休老師"},{"start":436.06,"end":438.06,"text":"因為他們有受一個在就業的薪資上限"},{"start":438.06,"end":440.06,"text":"大概不能超過最低薪資"},{"start":440.06,"end":442.06,"text":"所以他能夠幫忙就有限"},{"start":442.53,"end":444.53,"text":"然後所以有些行政人員"},{"start":444.53,"end":446.53,"text":"跟我講這個事情我說好那我來修"},{"start":446.53,"end":448.53,"text":"我至少讓那些願意回來幫忙的"},{"start":448.53,"end":450.53,"text":"那些退休老師"},{"start":450.53,"end":452.53,"text":"他可以在薪資上限這可以有些彈性"},{"start":452.53,"end":454.53,"text":"不要受到這個限制"},{"start":454.53,"end":456.53,"text":"因為現在是找不到人請他們回來"},{"start":456.53,"end":458.53,"text":"結果就被民進黨立委"},{"start":458.53,"end":460.53,"text":"還有被什麼民進黨附隨組織公督盟"},{"start":460.53,"end":462.53,"text":"萬罵"},{"start":462.53,"end":464.53,"text":"說我這是在養雙薪匪毛"},{"start":464.53,"end":466.53,"text":"說我這個是擋了年輕人的"},{"start":466.53,"end":468.53,"text":"身千"},{"start":468.53,"end":470.53,"text":"然後公督盟講說這個就是"},{"start":470.53,"end":472.53,"text":"能撈就撈啊"},{"start":472.53,"end":474.53,"text":"能混就混"},{"start":474.53,"end":476.53,"text":"我不能接受這樣的說法"},{"start":476.53,"end":478.53,"text":"人家是回來幫忙"},{"start":478.53,"end":480.53,"text":"請問現在校園"},{"start":480.53,"end":482.53,"text":"如果那麼好待的話"},{"start":482.53,"end":484.53,"text":"學校需要去拜託退休老師回來嗎"},{"start":484.53,"end":486.53,"text":"怎麼可以罵人家能混就混"},{"start":486.53,"end":488.53,"text":"所以只要退休老師回來"},{"start":488.53,"end":490.53,"text":"就是肥貓嗎"},{"start":490.53,"end":492.53,"text":"這個您也算是"},{"start":492.53,"end":494.53,"text":"您不算退休啦"},{"start":494.53,"end":496.53,"text":"可是您也算是離開公職"},{"start":496.53,"end":498.53,"text":"再換一個工作"},{"start":498.53,"end":500.53,"text":"你可以接受我剛講的民進黨立委"},{"start":500.53,"end":502.53,"text":"還有附隨組織公督盟這樣亂罵嗎"},{"start":502.53,"end":504.53,"text":"你可以接受嗎"},{"start":504.53,"end":506.53,"text":"我想在學校如果"},{"start":506.53,"end":508.53,"text":"實質缺乏的情況下"},{"start":508.53,"end":510.53,"text":"有人約你回來幫忙喔"},{"start":510.53,"end":512.53,"text":"這是一件好事情"},{"start":512.53,"end":514.53,"text":"而且現在的人的健康狀況也很好"},{"start":514.53,"end":516.53,"text":"他的經驗教學經驗"},{"start":516.53,"end":518.53,"text":"也對學生的教育會有所幫助的"},{"start":518.53,"end":520.53,"text":"是嗎那你"},{"start":520.53,"end":522.53,"text":"那為什麼公督盟要說他們是能撈就撈"},{"start":522.53,"end":524.53,"text":"能混就混"},{"start":524.53,"end":526.53,"text":"可以這樣亂罵嗎"},{"start":526.8,"end":528.8,"text":"是不是我們在務實解決問題"},{"start":528.8,"end":530.8,"text":"所以剛剛我問你年紀這樣我沒有說不好"},{"start":530.8,"end":532.8,"text":"其實你剛剛如果說你願意"},{"start":532.8,"end":534.8,"text":"再做一任我會說很棒"},{"start":535.68,"end":537.68,"text":"對大家要就事論事"},{"start":537.68,"end":539.68,"text":"我說這是假設性問題"},{"start":539.68,"end":541.68,"text":"沒有沒有我說我不為難你"},{"start":541.68,"end":543.68,"text":"因為你可能有不好說的原因"},{"start":543.68,"end":545.68,"text":"但我問這個問題不是要去質疑你"},{"start":545.68,"end":547.68,"text":"我們是要我們是覺得好的人才"},{"start":547.68,"end":549.68,"text":"而且就像我剛講"},{"start":549.68,"end":551.68,"text":"他們回來是解決問題"},{"start":551.68,"end":553.68,"text":"居然被罵成這個樣子"},{"start":553.68,"end":555.68,"text":"我認為您"},{"start":555.68,"end":557.68,"text":"作為一個這個在公務門"},{"start":557.68,"end":559.68,"text":"服務很久的也應該"},{"start":559.68,"end":561.68,"text":"出來講講話啦然後再來問一下"},{"start":561.68,"end":563.68,"text":"石安啦最後那個主席再給"},{"start":563.68,"end":565.68,"text":"我一點時間石安的問題我跟請教一下"},{"start":565.68,"end":567.68,"text":"因為我印象當中我們那時候"},{"start":567.68,"end":569.68,"text":"這一任立委剛就任的時候"},{"start":569.68,"end":571.68,"text":"剛好就發生幾起石安事件"},{"start":571.68,"end":573.68,"text":"蘇丹紅還有"},{"start":573.68,"end":575.68,"text":"西部特首"},{"start":575.68,"end":577.68,"text":"所以當時行政院長陳建仁"},{"start":577.68,"end":579.68,"text":"有到我們立法院做石安報告"},{"start":579.68,"end":581.68,"text":"那我們有機會這個"},{"start":581.68,"end":583.68,"text":"看到您的報告"},{"start":583.68,"end":585.68,"text":"那您當時就講說"},{"start":585.68,"end":587.68,"text":"我記得那時候石安報告"},{"start":587.68,"end":589.68,"text":"我總結幾個字就是"},{"start":589.68,"end":591.68,"text":"馬英九好爛爛蔡英文好棒棒"},{"start":591.68,"end":593.68,"text":"那個時候您的報告"},{"start":593.68,"end":595.68,"text":"就呈現這個狀況因為您提到"},{"start":595.68,"end":597.68,"text":"馬政府時代2008有"},{"start":597.68,"end":599.68,"text":"奶粉的三聚氰胺事件2011"},{"start":599.68,"end":601.68,"text":"有塑化劑事件2013有毒澱粉"},{"start":601.68,"end":603.68,"text":"20132014還有"},{"start":603.68,"end":605.68,"text":"油品的問題好很爛"},{"start":606.52,"end":608.52,"text":"的系統性問題但是在2016年"},{"start":608.52,"end":610.52,"text":"蔡英文積極推動石安五環之後"},{"start":610.52,"end":612.52,"text":"這些都變"},{"start":612.52,"end":614.52,"text":"石安問題都從系統性問題"},{"start":614.52,"end":616.52,"text":"轉為個案包括"},{"start":616.52,"end":618.52,"text":"西部特羅包括蘇丹紅啊這些"},{"start":618.52,"end":620.52,"text":"都是個案個案沒辦法"},{"start":620.52,"end":622.52,"text":"我們我們只能解決系統性問題"},{"start":622.52,"end":624.52,"text":"可是您卸任之後您是"},{"start":624.52,"end":626.52,"text":"2024年5月卸任"},{"start":626.52,"end":628.52,"text":"那最近又發生石安"},{"start":628.52,"end":630.52,"text":"問題又有這個"},{"start":630.52,"end":632.52,"text":"癌油的事情"},{"start":632.15,"end":634.15,"text":"那請問這次個案還是系統性問題"},{"start":634.15,"end":636.15,"text":"這一次因為"},{"start":636.15,"end":638.15,"text":"廠商延遲通報隱蔽"},{"start":638.15,"end":640.15,"text":"資料然後使得所有"},{"start":640.15,"end":642.15,"text":"的這一個油品下架"},{"start":642.15,"end":644.15,"text":"受到影響而且不只是"},{"start":644.15,"end":646.15,"text":"油品本身所以是系統性"},{"start":646.15,"end":648.15,"text":"問題所以他就造成了"},{"start":648.15,"end":650.15,"text":"不同行業都受到影響"},{"start":650.15,"end":652.15,"text":"所以這是一個系統性的問題對嘛"},{"start":652.15,"end":654.15,"text":"所以您在2024年的時候石安"},{"start":654.15,"end":656.15,"text":"報告"},{"start":655.46,"end":657.46,"text":"就有點誇大了嘛"},{"start":657.46,"end":659.46,"text":"實際上石安五環就只有漏洞"},{"start":659.46,"end":661.46,"text":"如果沒有漏洞怎麼後面會發生系統性問題"},{"start":661.46,"end":663.46,"text":"西部特羅我想你很清楚"},{"start":663.46,"end":665.46,"text":"我沒有在講"},{"start":665.46,"end":667.46,"text":"就只有一個實驗室"},{"start":667.46,"end":669.46,"text":"我現在不是講個案"},{"start":669.46,"end":671.46,"text":"因為你那個時候講的意思是說"},{"start":671.46,"end":673.46,"text":"我們石安五環已經讓"},{"start":673.46,"end":675.46,"text":"石安的問題已經得到很好的"},{"start":675.46,"end":677.46,"text":"保護所以不會再發生系統性"},{"start":677.46,"end":679.46,"text":"問題了嘛那時候是蠻"},{"start":679.46,"end":681.46,"text":"自信的講出這樣的話嘛"},{"start":681.46,"end":683.46,"text":"這一次是廠商你不管"},{"start":683.46,"end":685.46,"text":"因為"},{"start":685.46,"end":687.46,"text":"我後來也看了大概2024年"},{"start":687.46,"end":689.46,"text":"3月的時候"},{"start":689.46,"end":691.46,"text":"您去參加石安匯報之後的才市"},{"start":691.46,"end":693.46,"text":"你就是說要加強"},{"start":693.46,"end":695.46,"text":"在後市場管理部分"},{"start":695.46,"end":697.46,"text":"後市場管理就是源頭管理之後"},{"start":697.46,"end":699.46,"text":"你就說也需要食品業者"},{"start":699.46,"end":701.46,"text":"研議自律並加強自主"},{"start":701.46,"end":703.46,"text":"檢驗然後"},{"start":703.46,"end":705.46,"text":"而且要確定原料安全性其實"},{"start":705.46,"end":707.46,"text":"那時候你就看到這個問題了嘛"},{"start":707.46,"end":709.46,"text":"看到這個問題沒辦法杜絕現在又發生"},{"start":709.46,"end":711.46,"text":"一樣的問題那就代表有一些"},{"start":711.46,"end":713.46,"text":"做為了畏罪"},{"start":713.46,"end":715.46,"text":"當然是不能都靠廠商啊"},{"start":715.46,"end":717.46,"text":"如果都靠廠商的話那政府要幹嘛"},{"start":717.46,"end":719.46,"text":"所以中央跟地方也要"},{"start":719.46,"end":721.46,"text":"有密合"},{"start":721.46,"end":723.46,"text":"那個時候就是有一點太過於自信"},{"start":723.46,"end":725.46,"text":"就覺得馬英就很爛蔡政府很棒"},{"start":725.46,"end":727.46,"text":"實際上後來賴政府也發生"},{"start":727.46,"end":729.46,"text":"系統性的問題嘛所以我覺得"},{"start":729.46,"end":731.46,"text":"政府不能夠太傲慢"},{"start":731.46,"end":733.46,"text":"要謙卑"},{"start":733.46,"end":735.46,"text":"我現在問你一個問題"},{"start":735.46,"end":737.46,"text":"那你那時候就自得其滿"},{"start":737.46,"end":739.46,"text":"就馬英就很爛爛啊蔡正文好棒棒啊"},{"start":739.46,"end":741.46,"text":"事實是西部特羅"},{"start":741.46,"end":743.46,"text":"這是一個真的是個案嘛"},{"start":743.46,"end":745.46,"text":"可是後來又蘇丹紅嘛"},{"start":745.46,"end":747.46,"text":"蘇丹紅就是兩個廠商進入的時候"},{"start":747.46,"end":749.46,"text":"而且"},{"start":749.01,"end":751.01,"text":"當時是已經在"},{"start":751.01,"end":753.01,"t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我覺得"},{"start":942.97,"end":944.97,"text":"不是我們今天質詢的問題"},{"start":944.97,"end":946.97,"text":"我知道不是 但是因為現在國人最關心這件事情"},{"start":946.97,"end":948.97,"text":"然後你跟大家不一樣的地方就在於你做過行政院長嘛"},{"start":948.97,"end":950.97,"text":"所以從一開始到現在才會有人問有的問題嘛"},{"start":950.97,"end":952.97,"text":"我覺得質詢應該問質詢的問題"},{"start":952.97,"end":954.97,"text":"我覺得質詢應該問質詢的問題"},{"start":954.97,"end":956.97,"text":"我現在就在問這個事啊"},{"start":956.97,"end":958.97,"text":"民眾關心的啊"},{"start":958.97,"end":960.97,"text":"大家關心啊"},{"start":960.97,"end":962.97,"text":"超過九分鐘"},{"start":962.04,"end":964.04,"text":"好 我知道"},{"start":964.04,"end":966.04,"text":"但是 不好意思"},{"start":966.04,"end":968.04,"text":"你剛剛講說你會秉持知識分子的風骨啦"},{"start":968.04,"end":970.04,"text":"言所當言"},{"start":970.04,"end":972.04,"text":"但到最後有點批評執政黨你又縮回去"},{"start":972.04,"end":974.04,"text":"我希望"},{"start":974.04,"end":976.04,"text":"我希望這個"},{"start":976.22,"end":978.22,"text":"中研院長陳彥仁可以跳脫政黨"},{"start":978.22,"end":980.22,"text":"我一定會"},{"start":980.22,"end":982.22,"text":"講到該什麼就講什麼"},{"start":982.22,"end":984.22,"text":"我一定會"},{"start":984.22,"end":986.22,"text":"但是你不要在不該質詢的題目上"},{"start":986.22,"end":988.22,"text":"政黨會不該質詢"},{"start":988.22,"end":990.22,"text":"你還管我要質詢什麼"},{"start":990.22,"end":992.22,"text":"我們院長這個太傲慢了吧"},{"start":992.22,"end":994.22,"text":"沒有"},{"start":994.22,"end":996.22,"text":"大家關心這一題嘛"},{"start":996.22,"end":998.22,"text":"中研院沒有"},{"start":998.22,"end":1000.22,"text":"中研院跟什麼都有關啊"},{"start":1000.22,"end":1002.22,"text":"中研院做研究 研究就要跟事實接軌"},{"start":1002.22,"end":1004.22,"text":"所以中研院院長是什麼都有關啊"},{"start":1004.22,"end":1006.22,"text":"所以沒有不見上綱啦"},{"start":1006.22,"end":1008.22,"text":"中研院學術就是要跟事實做連結啦"},{"start":1008.22,"end":1010.22,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":1010.22,"end":1012.22,"text":"好 謝謝彥仁"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}