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xt":"中部是民進黨"},{"start":399.34,"end":401.34,"text":"選票相對比較弱的地方"},{"start":401.34,"end":403.34,"text":"就是散步"},{"start":403.34,"end":405.34,"text":"一點點而已啦我就跟你講"},{"start":405.34,"end":407.34,"text":"一點點嘛"},{"start":407.34,"end":409.34,"text":"這個應該沒有政治的考量"},{"start":409.34,"end":411.34,"text":"沒有任何政治的考量"},{"start":411.34,"end":413.34,"text":"那國防部就是配合"},{"start":413.34,"end":415.34,"text":"你擺出來為什麼不全部呢"},{"start":415.34,"end":417.34,"text":"為什麼南部不要呢台南不要高雄不要"},{"start":417.34,"end":419.34,"text":"台南跟高雄"},{"start":419.34,"end":421.34,"text":"任性有夠讚"},{"start":421.34,"end":423.34,"text":"所以都不用怕這個對不對"},{"start":423.34,"end":425.34,"text":"不同嘛來來來時間到了"},{"start":425.34,"end":427.34,"text":"再加一個"},{"start":427.34,"end":429.34,"text":"之前也是做一些小部分"},{"start":429.34,"end":431.34,"text":"的驗證然後再"},{"start":431.34,"end":433.34,"text":"沒有這麼明顯這一次有夠明顯"},{"start":433.34,"end":435.34,"text":"來我們我們"},{"start":435.34,"end":437.34,"text":"其實你可以看了雖然你剛剛已經"},{"start":437.34,"end":439.34,"text":"對其他委員講了"},{"start":439.34,"end":441.34,"text":"所以我們現在這個"},{"start":441.34,"end":443.34,"text":"這個退的人越來越少"},{"start":443.34,"end":445.34,"text":"有增加可是人家統計"},{"start":445.34,"end":447.34,"text":"的四年招來五萬多"},{"start":447.34,"end":449.34,"text":"一點二萬人"},{"start":449.34,"end":451.34,"text":"不要當"},{"start":451.34,"end":453.34,"text":"提前退伍沒四名"},{"start":453.34,"end":455.34,"text":"入營的志願"},{"start":455.86,"end":457.86,"text":"有一個人選擇賠錢提前"},{"start":460.97,"end":462.97,"text":"這什麼呀這到底是"},{"start":462.97,"end":464.97,"text":"這什麼呀大家"},{"start":464.31,"end":466.31,"text":"大家因為你們"},{"start":465.97,"end":467.97,"text":"一直製造戰爭的這個"},{"start":467.97,"end":469.97,"text":"氣氛一直製造打個打個打個"},{"start":469.97,"end":471.97,"text":"屌"},{"start":470.98,"end":472.98,"text":"你剛才說了幾步問題是這個數字在這裡"},{"start":472.98,"end":474.98,"text":"你解釋一下吧"},{"start":474.98,"end":476.98,"text":"這樣的一個解釋我"},{"start":476.98,"end":478.98,"text":"我覺得是可能抹殺了我們的"},{"start":478.98,"end":480.98,"text":"努力因為113年已經"},{"start":480.98,"end":482.98,"text":"比113年減少405個"},{"start":482.98,"end":484.98,"text":"114年又比"},{"start":484.98,"end":486.98,"text":"113年減少了"},{"start":486.98,"end":488.98,"text":"所以我的意思是說"},{"start":488.98,"end":490.98,"text":"我們國防部立場就是說看這個"},{"start":490.98,"end":492.98,"text":"提前退伍的人數是趨降"},{"start":492.98,"end":494.98,"text":"的而不是往上升的"},{"start":494.98,"end":496.98,"text":"如果是趨降的那"},{"start":496.98,"end":498.98,"text":"就是我們當然還有"},{"start":498.98,"end":500.98,"text":"努力的空間啦但是整個的"},{"start":500.98,"end":502.98,"text":"提前退伍的人數是往下掉"},{"start":502.98,"end":504.98,"text":"不只引述一位退將"},{"start":504.98,"end":506.98,"text":"在媒體上公開"},{"start":506.98,"end":508.98,"text":"鎖"},{"start":508.19,"end":510.19,"text":"為什麼大家退一個人做的原因"},{"start":510.19,"end":512.19,"text":"待遇不夠嘛不如一個"},{"start":512.19,"end":514.19,"text":"外送的"},{"start":514.19,"end":516.19,"text":"外送的這個先生"},{"start":516.19,"end":518.19,"text":"或什麼的不如外送的工作"},{"start":518.19,"end":520.19,"text":"他為什麼留這裡"},{"start":520.19,"end":522.19,"text":"除了強烈人家會提這樣講呢"},{"start":522.19,"end":524.19,"text":"那如果這樣怎麼解釋"},{"start":524.19,"end":526.19,"text":"流營的不"},{"start":526.19,"end":528.19,"text":"流營率提高那不是這個提前"},{"start":528.19,"end":530.19,"text":"退伍人數下降然後呢"},{"start":530.19,"end":532.19,"text":"叫114年"},{"start":532.19,"end":534.19,"text":"叫113年也增加了"},{"start":534.19,"end":536.19,"text":"3000多個人"},{"start":536.19,"end":538.19,"text":"就是我們立法院通過加薪3萬"},{"start":538.19,"end":540.19,"text":"你們不要不給他加"},{"start":540.19,"end":542.19,"text":"就這樣子回答就解了"},{"start":542.19,"end":544.19,"text":"待遇的問題"},{"start":544.19,"end":546.19,"text":"別人說成這樣就難看了"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:01:32.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:01:33.760000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，以及各位先進。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:01:34.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:01:35.318889+08:00","text":"有請國防部顧部長。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-20T12:01:35.763333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:01:36.207778+08:00","text":"請顧部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:01:44.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:01:45.250000+08:00","text":"是，賴委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:01:45.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:01:46.250000+08:00","text":"部長，你好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:01:47.683636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:02:05.114286+08:00","text":"你今天面對媒體提到城鎮韌性演習，要斷網，就是北中14縣市行動網路受阻，但是WiFi並沒有，到底是怎麼樣？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:02:05.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:02:10.066667+08:00","text":"是壓力測試還是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:02:10.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:02:12.266667+08:00","text":"為什麼只cover這14個縣市呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:02:12.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:02:13.150000+08:00","text":"南部不用？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:02:13.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:02:14.800000+08:00","text":"南部韌性夠，南部很勇，只有北部比較弱？","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:02:16.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:02:19.955556+08:00","text":"南部應該有到嘉義吧。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:02:20.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:02:21.233333+08:00","text":"對，就嘉義啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:02:21.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:02:23.400000+08:00","text":"嘉義以南就沒有了，為什麼？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:02:24.763636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:02:40.246154+08:00","text":"驗證所選取的範圍，當然是由NCC所公布的這個範圍，因為是首次嘛，所以它選取部分地區、部分功能，然後也不是全部的行動斷網吧？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:02:40.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:02:48.066667+08:00","text":"我的了解是降速到原來4G、5G的百分之一，應該是這樣子。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:02:49.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:02:55+08:00","text":"現在外面就兩個問題在問，第一個問題，為什麼不是全臺灣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:02:55.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:03:01.295556+08:00","text":"東部沒有，南部沒有，外界高度質疑這是配合選舉……","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:03:01.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:03:19.540000+08:00","text":"之前我們全動署在做防空緊急避難措施時，也是分年一直不斷地增加，從一開始大概1個里或者這樣，到去年增加到65個鄉鎮，然後今年才開始要全面實施防空避難，就是地區逐步來進行驗證。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:03:24.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:03:56.550000+08:00","text":"簡單來講，外界會高度質疑你這個動作，就是讓北、中地區，你們難一點點、相對執政黨比較弱的地方，製造戰爭的恐嚇、戰爭的陰影，讓大家會怕，是另類的一個認知作戰，可以這麼講：抗中保臺的側翼，變這個樣子，是準備開戰了，難道不是嗎？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:03:56.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:04:05.767778+08:00","text":"斷網要斷網30分鐘，只有北、中，然後南部不用，這個東西太明顯了，你不覺得嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:04:07.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:04:17.148182+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，第一個，有關城鎮韌性演習裡面，就只有這個行動……","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:04:17.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:04:19.552222+08:00","text":"我知道啦，只有行動網路。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:04:19.996667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:04:25.044286+08:00","text":"行動這個部分降速，然後做韌性的演練。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:04:25.615714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:04:37.107778+08:00","text":"選取這個地區，已經講了是部分的地區跟部分的功能，其他有一些相關的固網系統等等，也沒有全部都要斷網。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:04:37.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:04:44.930000+08:00","text":"第二個是行動網路的部分，通訊跟簡訊部分的功能，就我的理解是還是維持。","quality":0.71},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:04:45.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:05:08.800000+08:00","text":"沒有，我是關心民生，金融跟行動支付就癱瘓了，無現金交易的就癱瘓了，物流與交通停擺，高科技業的中下游供應鏈與數位串接停擺，老實講，我不知道你們估算過沒有，這樣做大概影響經濟產值多少？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:05:09.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:05:26.050000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有關醫療、交通、金融跟社會安全這四個面向，應該會由衛福部、交通部、經濟部、財政部跟金管會，還有內政部，都有研擬相關的應變機制，他們大概會出來再做說明。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:05:26.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:05:34.192857+08:00","text":"至於國防部的部分，因為是在我們進行漢光演習的期間，國防部也會做相關通訊韌性的備援規劃。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:05:35.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:05:39.272222+08:00","text":"你回答一下，什麼時候可以cover全部？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:05:39.494444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:05:58.846154+08:00","text":"假如認為斷網有必要，我覺得30分鐘都太短，應該再拉長，真的戰爭絕對不可能只讓你斷網30分鐘而已，可能好幾個小時或者是幾天，是不是一天全部斷網看看，WiFi可以，但行動數據統統斷網，看看這個社會怎麼樣。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:05:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:04.500000+08:00","text":"相關的驗證大概應該都是逐步、循序來做啦！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:05.933333+08:00","text":"你沒有回答問題嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:06.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:11.200000+08:00","text":"現在只有北、中加一點南，什麼時候全面、全島、全臺灣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:11.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:12+08:00","text":"什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:13.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:14.220000+08:00","text":"有沒有規劃？","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:17.331818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:32.864286+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，第一個，今年北部跟中部來做行動網路的降速，這是通傳會統一規劃，剛剛部長也跟委員說明，通傳會可能在近期就會跟大家做說明……不是！","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:33.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:40.846667+08:00","text":"你沒有回答我的問題，因為我的時間快到了，你回答我什麼時候可以cover全部，不要只有局部啦！","quality":0.595},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:41.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:42.846667+08:00","text":"打仗是全面的嘛！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:42.846667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:45.180000+08:00","text":"今年因為是第一次要做這樣大面積的，做完之後會來……","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:45.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:46.846667+08:00","text":"什麼時候可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖署長建興","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:47.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:48.410769+08:00","text":"今年做完之後會做一個詳細的評估。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:48.564615+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:49.026154+08:00","text":"什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:49.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:50.680000+08:00","text":"是什麼時候？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:51.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:58.814286+08:00","text":"我們沒有辦法回答，因為我們國防部就是由全動署來配合在漢光演習的期間，尤其是防空演習做……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:58.814286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T12:06:59.814286+08:00","text":"你知道嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:06:59.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:07:21.370000+08:00","text":"你們這樣子降載對經濟造成的損失，外面的估算，我找了好幾個估算，粗略的估算，損失不是大，但是也是個數字，5億到30億，一般的估算是5億到30億，這個金額當然不是很大，對國家來講，可是對很多人會很不方便啊！","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:07:21.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:07:23.203333+08:00","text":"我跟你講。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:07:23.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:07:39.370000+08:00","text":"剛剛我提到的幾個部會應該都有做過一些評估，譬如剛剛有涉及到的部分應該把時間也往後延到2點半到3點，就是會有演練降速的部分……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:07:39.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:07:41.647778+08:00","text":"你那個只是要配合股市而已啦！","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:07:42.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:07:58.068182+08:00","text":"儘量對他們的應變機制來……他們會就相關所應該要達成的應變機制，根據他們隨案所要進行的時間會做比較完整的說明。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:01.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:08:13.140000+08:00","text":"部長，你還是沒有釐清外面對這個舉動的疑慮，這個疑慮是只針對北部、中部，是民進黨選票相對比較弱的地方……","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:13.140000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T12:08:15.340000+08:00","text":"那嘉義……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:15.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:08:16.249091+08:00","text":"一點點而已啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:16.430909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:08:18.340000+08:00","text":"我就跟你講是一點點、一點點！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:19.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:08:25.090000+08:00","text":"我想這個應該沒有政治的考量啦，沒有任何政治的考量，國防部就是配合……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:25.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:08:27.158182+08:00","text":"你擺出來的，為什麼不全部呢？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:27.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:08:28.215000+08:00","text":"為什麼南部不要呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:28.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:08:29.215000+08:00","text":"臺南不要、高雄不要，你告訴我理由？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:29.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:08:35.158182+08:00","text":"臺南跟高雄韌性有夠韌、有夠讚，所以都不用怕這個，對不對？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:35.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:08:35.740000+08:00","text":"不同嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:36.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:08:38.840000+08:00","text":"因為我時間到了，我就再加一個……","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:39.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:08:43.006667+08:00","text":"防空演習之前也是做一些小部分的驗證，然後再逐步拉到全部嘛！","quality":0.593},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:43.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:08:44.109231+08:00","text":"沒有這麼明顯啦！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:44.263077+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:08:45.186154+08:00","text":"這一次有夠明顯的。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:08:45.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:09:13.470000+08:00","text":"接下來看一下，雖然你剛才已經對其他委員說我們現在退的人越來越少，有增加，可是人家的統計是4年招了5.2萬人，1.2萬人要提前退伍，每4名入營的志願役就有1人選擇賠錢提前離營，這是怎麼樣？","quality":0.734},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:09:14.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:09:15.636667+08:00","text":"到底是怎麼樣？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:09:16.976667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:09:20.136667+08:00","text":"因為你們一直製造戰爭的氣氛，大家當然都會怕啊！","quality":0.619},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:09:22.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:09:24.862353+08:00","text":"你剛才說了一大堆，問題是數字就在這裡啊！","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:09:24.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:09:26.646667+08:00","text":"你解釋一下吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:09:26.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:09:54.798182+08:00","text":"委員這樣的一個解釋，我覺得是可能抹煞了我們的努力，因為113年已經比112年減少405人，114年又比113年減少了1,152人，所以我的意思是，國防部的立場就是看到提前退伍的人數是趨降的，而不是往上升的，我們當然還有努力的空間，但是整個提前退伍人數是往下掉的。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:09:55.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:10:00.959231+08:00","text":"我只引述一位退將在媒體上公開說的，為什麼大家要退？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:10:01.113077+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:10:04.856667+08:00","text":"一個很重要的原因是待遇不夠，不如一個外送員嘛！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:10:08.917273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:10:11.904286+08:00","text":"不如外送工作的待遇，他為什麼留在這裡？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:10:11.904286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T12:10:14.412222+08:00","text":"這是一位退將所講的。","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:10:14.412222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:10:21.301111+08:00","text":"如果這樣，怎麼解釋留營率提高、提前退伍人數下降？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:10:21.301111+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T12:10:22.301111+08:00","text":"然後志願役的人力……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:10:22.301111+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T12:10:23.301111+08:00","text":"但是overall還是有退伍啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:10:23.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:10:27.523333+08:00","text":"114年還較113年增加了三千多個人！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:10:28.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:10:31.940000+08:00","text":"斧底抽薪就是我們立法院通過加薪3萬，你們不要、不給他加嘛！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:10:32.412222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:10:33.967778+08:00","text":"這樣回答就了嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-20T12:10:34.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:10:37.790000+08:00","text":"待遇的問題嘛，被人家講成這樣，很難看啊！謝謝。","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-20T12:10:38.290000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T12:10:42.004286+08:00","text":"接下來請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":610,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（12時1分）謝謝主席，以及各位先進。有請國防部顧部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：是，賴委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：部長，你好。你今天面對媒體提到城鎮韌性演習，要斷網，就是北中14縣市行動網路受阻，但是WiFi並沒有，到底是怎麼樣？是壓力測試還是什麼？為什麼只cover這14個縣市呢？南部不用？南部韌性夠，南部很勇，只有北部比較弱？"],["顧部長立雄：南部應該有到嘉義吧。"],["賴委員士葆：對，就嘉義啊！嘉義以南就沒有了，為什麼？"],["顧部長立雄：驗證所選取的範圍，當然是由NCC所公布的這個範圍，因為是首次嘛，所以它選取部分地區、部分功能，然後也不是全部的行動斷網吧？我的了解是降速到原來4G、5G的百分之一，應該是這樣子。"],["賴委員士葆：現在外面就兩個問題在問，第一個問題，為什麼不是全臺灣？東部沒有，南部沒有，外界高度質疑這是配合選舉……"],["顧部長立雄：之前我們全動署在做防空緊急避難措施時，也是分年一直不斷地增加，從一開始大概1個里或者這樣，到去年增加到65個鄉鎮，然後今年才開始要全面實施防空避難，就是地區逐步來進行驗證。"],["賴委員士葆：簡單來講，外界會高度質疑你這個動作，就是讓北、中地區，你們難一點點、相對執政黨比較弱的地方，製造戰爭的恐嚇、戰爭的陰影，讓大家會怕，是另類的一個認知作戰，可以這麼講：抗中保臺的側翼，變這個樣子，是準備開戰了，難道不是嗎？斷網要斷網30分鐘，只有北、中，然後南部不用，這個東西太明顯了，你不覺得嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我跟委員報告，第一個，有關城鎮韌性演習裡面，就只有這個行動……"],["賴委員士葆：我知道啦，只有行動網路。"],["顧部長立雄：行動這個部分降速，然後做韌性的演練。選取這個地區，已經講了是部分的地區跟部分的功能，其他有一些相關的固網系統等等，也沒有全部都要斷網。第二個是行動網路的部分，通訊跟簡訊部分的功能，就我的理解是還是維持。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有，我是關心民生，金融跟行動支付就癱瘓了，無現金交易的就癱瘓了，物流與交通停擺，高科技業的中下游供應鏈與數位串接停擺，老實講，我不知道你們估算過沒有，這樣做大概影響經濟產值多少？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，有關醫療、交通、金融跟社會安全這四個面向，應該會由衛福部、交通部、經濟部、財政部跟金管會，還有內政部，都有研擬相關的應變機制，他們大概會出來再做說明。至於國防部的部分，因為是在我們進行漢光演習的期間，國防部也會做相關通訊韌性的備援規劃。"],["賴委員士葆：你回答一下，什麼時候可以cover全部？假如認為斷網有必要，我覺得30分鐘都太短，應該再拉長，真的戰爭絕對不可能只讓你斷網30分鐘而已，可能好幾個小時或者是幾天，是不是一天全部斷網看看，WiFi可以，但行動數據統統斷網，看看這個社會怎麼樣。"],["顧部長立雄：相關的驗證大概應該都是逐步、循序來做啦！"],["賴委員士葆：你沒有回答問題嘛！現在只有北、中加一點南，什麼時候全面、全島、全臺灣？什麼時候？有沒有規劃？"],["廖署長建興：跟委員報告，第一個，今年北部跟中部來做行動網路的降速，這是通傳會統一規劃，剛剛部長也跟委員說明，通傳會可能在近期就會跟大家做說明……"],["賴委員士葆：不是！你沒有回答我的問題，因為我的時間快到了，你回答我什麼時候可以cover全部，不要只有局部啦！打仗是全面的嘛！"],["廖署長建興：今年因為是第一次要做這樣大面積的，做完之後會來……"],["賴委員士葆：什麼時候可以？"],["廖署長建興：今年做完之後會做一個詳細的評估。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼時候？是什麼時候？"],["顧部長立雄：我們沒有辦法回答，因為我們國防部就是由全動署來配合在漢光演習的期間，尤其是防空演習做……"],["賴委員士葆：你知道嗎？你們這樣子降載對經濟造成的損失，外面的估算，我找了好幾個估算，粗略的估算，損失不是大，但是也是個數字，5億到30億，一般的估算是5億到30億，這個金額當然不是很大，對國家來講，可是對很多人會很不方便啊！我跟你講。"],["顧部長立雄：剛剛我提到的幾個部會應該都有做過一些評估，譬如剛剛有涉及到的部分應該把時間也往後延到2點半到3點，就是會有演練降速的部分……"],["賴委員士葆：你那個只是要配合股市而已啦！"],["顧部長立雄：儘量對他們的應變機制來……他們會就相關所應該要達成的應變機制，根據他們隨案所要進行的時間會做比較完整的說明。"],["賴委員士葆：部長，你還是沒有釐清外面對這個舉動的疑慮，這個疑慮是只針對北部、中部，是民進黨選票相對比較弱的地方……"],["顧部長立雄：那嘉義……"],["賴委員士葆：一點點而已啦！我就跟你講是一點點、一點點！"],["顧部長立雄：我想這個應該沒有政治的考量啦，沒有任何政治的考量，國防部就是配合……"],["賴委員士葆：你擺出來的，為什麼不全部呢？為什麼南部不要呢？臺南不要、高雄不要，你告訴我理由？臺南跟高雄韌性有夠韌、有夠讚，所以都不用怕這個，對不對？不同嘛！因為我時間到了，我就再加一個……"],["顧部長立雄：防空演習之前也是做一些小部分的驗證，然後再逐步拉到全部嘛！"],["賴委員士葆：沒有這麼明顯啦！這一次有夠明顯的。","接下來看一下，雖然你剛才已經對其他委員說我們現在退的人越來越少，有增加，可是人家的統計是4年招了5.2萬人，1.2萬人要提前退伍，每4名入營的志願役就有1人選擇賠錢提前離營，這是怎麼樣？到底是怎麼樣？因為你們一直製造戰爭的氣氛，大家當然都會怕啊！你剛才說了一大堆，問題是數字就在這裡啊！你解釋一下吧！"],["顧部長立雄：委員這樣的一個解釋，我覺得是可能抹煞了我們的努力，因為113年已經比112年減少405人，114年又比113年減少了1,152人，所以我的意思是，國防部的立場就是看到提前退伍的人數是趨降的，而不是往上升的，我們當然還有努力的空間，但是整個提前退伍人數是往下掉的。"],["賴委員士葆：我只引述一位退將在媒體上公開說的，為什麼大家要退？一個很重要的原因是待遇不夠，不如一個外送員嘛！不如外送工作的待遇，他為什麼留在這裡？這是一位退將所講的。"],["顧部長立雄：如果這樣，怎麼解釋留營率提高、提前退伍人數下降？然後志願役的人力……"],["賴委員士葆：但是overall還是有退伍啊！"],["顧部長立雄：114年還較113年增加了三千多個人！"],["賴委員士葆：斧底抽薪就是我們立法院通過加薪3萬，你們不要、不給他加嘛！這樣回答就了嘛！待遇的問題嘛，被人家講成這樣，很難看啊！"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":386,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-35-27","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳永康","牛煦庭","王義川","林楚茵","沈伯洋","馬文君","王安祥","黃建賓","許忠信","謝龍介","郭昱晴","洪孟楷","洪毓祥","賴士葆","徐巧芯","王鴻薇","葉元之","陳冠廷","黃仁","王定宇"],"page_start":325,"meetingDate":["2026-07-20"],"gazette_id":"1156401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國軍軍品採購履約爭議與違約致獲裝期程延宕採購策略精進作\n為」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1156401_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}