{"error":false,"id":["170602"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170602,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170602","日期":"2026-07-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-27","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":27,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-20T12:34:22+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-20T12:44:18+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:56","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/09ae2675330bc1e5e8b9f1656e729718462d4557d658398c86e145b550a06301046f014c7ab0ab8e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"12:34:22 - 12:44:18","會議時間":"2026-07-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國軍軍品採購履約爭議與違約致獲裝期程延宕採購策略精進作為」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":0.25034375000000003,"end":3.76034375,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":10.52721875,"end":11.47221875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":10.94909375,"end":17.496593750000002,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":18.01971875,"end":20.719718750000002,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":20.922218750000003,"end":25.49534375,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":25.984718750000003,"end":29.089718750000003,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":29.64659375,"end":71.27721875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":71.74971875,"end":74.80409375,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":74.93909375,"end":77.85846875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":78.17909375,"end":80.64284375000001,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":81.13221875,"end":87.89909375,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":88.23659375000001,"end":131.14971875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":122.66159375000001,"end":178.97346875000002,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":137.62971875,"end":138.23721875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":139.92471875,"end":142.28721875000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":143.51909375,"end":145.25721875000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":145.84784375,"end":146.47221875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":150.52221875,"end":150.97784375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":151.31534375,"end":152.74971875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":156.34409375,"end":158.35221875000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":163.75221875,"end":165.28784375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":165.52409375000002,"end":166.85721875000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":167.73471875,"end":169.18596875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":170.26596875,"end":170.97471875000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":171.46409375000002,"end":172.84784375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":177.10034375,"end":185.97659375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":185.97659375,"end":214.32659375,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":193.90784375,"end":195.76409375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":214.69784375,"end":218.83221875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":219.22034375,"end":220.38471875000002,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":220.85721875000002,"end":222.96659375000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":222.96659375000002,"end":237.12471875000003,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":237.58034375000003,"end":238.05284375000002,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":237.81659375,"end":238.01909375000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":238.05284375000002,"end":239.84159375000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":238.98096875000002,"end":251.41784375,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":250.10159375,"end":251.51909375000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":251.51909375000002,"end":252.80159375000002,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":251.77221875,"end":252.61596875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":252.80159375000002,"end":252.88596875000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":252.88596875000002,"end":252.90284375000002,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":252.90284375000002,"end":253.07159375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":253.07159375,"end":253.13909375000003,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":253.13909375000003,"end":253.22346875000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":253.22346875000002,"end":255.83909375000002,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":253.24034375000002,"end":269.05221875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":264.78284375000004,"end":264.96846875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":267.43221875,"end":270.53721875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":270.79034375000003,"end":289.04909375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":287.31096875000003,"end":287.88471875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":289.04909375,"end":295.90034375000005,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":289.06596875,"end":289.09971875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":296.32221875000005,"end":353.37659375000004,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":349.41096875,"end":373.25534375,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":367.99034375,"end":368.49659375000005,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":368.83409375,"end":371.48346875000004,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":371.92221875,"end":375.70221875000004,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":375.34784375000004,"end":390.83909375,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":391.15971875,"end":396.15471875000003,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":391.61534375,"end":392.13846875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":396.15471875000003,"end":396.45846875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":396.45846875,"end":396.96471875000003,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":396.96471875000003,"end":408.72659375,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":408.72659375,"end":408.84471875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":408.84471875,"end":424.72409375,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":424.85909375,"end":425.97284375000004,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":425.73659375000005,"end":425.87159375000005,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":425.95596875,"end":426.07409375000003,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":426.07409375000003,"end":443.94471875000005,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":441.63284375,"end":445.69971875000005,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":444.60284375000003,"end":447.08346875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":446.13846875,"end":462.22034375000004,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":448.60221875,"end":449.09159375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":462.59159375,"end":466.33784375000005,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":466.82721875000004,"end":469.74659375000005,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":470.11784375,"end":473.67846875000004,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":473.10471875,"end":478.38659375000003,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":478.21784375000004,"end":484.32659375000003,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":484.56284375,"end":489.89534375000005,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":489.00096875,"end":506.43284375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":506.97284375000004,"end":508.82909375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":508.40721875,"end":510.75284375,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":511.61346875000004,"end":513.6553437499999,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":513.6553437499999,"end":517.35096875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":513.97596875,"end":514.00971875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":514.0265937500001,"end":514.11096875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":514.1784687500001,"end":524.3372187500001,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":524.4890937499999,"end":524.50596875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":524.50596875,"end":524.53971875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":524.53971875,"end":526.2947187500001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":526.2778437500001,"end":542.0390937500001,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":540.5034687500001,"end":541.5834687500001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":542.0390937500001,"end":543.7097187500001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":543.7097187500001,"end":549.0422187500001,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":543.7265937500001,"end":549.00846875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":549.0422187500001,"end":549.10971875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":549.10971875,"end":549.24471875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":549.24471875,"end":549.27846875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":549.27846875,"end":551.67471875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":549.29534375,"end":549.7678437500001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":552.36659375,"end":555.62346875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":555.03284375,"end":556.9397187500001,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":556.83846875,"end":556.90596875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":556.9397187500001,"end":557.96909375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":557.96909375,"end":567.87471875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":568.1953437500001,"end":572.1609687499999,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":568.7353437500001,"end":569.24159375,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":572.04284375,"end":575.68784375,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":573.89909375,"end":579.1640937500001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":575.82284375,"end":576.41346875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":579.1640937500001,"end":579.1809687500001,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":579.1809687500001,"end":579.23159375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":579.19784375,"end":582.45471875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":579.3159687500001,"end":579.38346875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":580.7334687499999,"end":585.6440937500001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":583.75409375,"end":584.71596875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":586.2178437499999,"end":593.0859687500001,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":592.19159375,"end":592.8159687500001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":593.40659375,"end":595.12784375,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":595.27971875,"end":595.41471875,"speaker_score":0.966},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":595.4484687500001,"end":596.1740937500001,"speaker_score":0.93}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.25,"end":2.81,"text":"主席好 麻煩請部長 謝謝"},{"start":2.81,"end":3.81,"text":"好 請郭部長"},{"start":10.53,"end":12.93,"text":"郭部長好 我想問一下"},{"start":12.93,"end":16.13,"text":"因為剛剛很多委員 承襲大家的問題"},{"start":16.13,"end":17.43,"text":"就是你們現在8月"},{"start":18.02,"end":19.82,"text":"10號 8月13號演習嘛"},{"start":19.82,"end":22.82,"text":"然後現在有傳出來的消息是說"},{"start":22.82,"end":27.02,"text":"下午2點半到3點會降速嘛"},{"start":27.02,"end":29.02,"text":"然後到時候 其實民眾影響很大"},{"start":29.65,"end":31.25,"text":"然後到時候民眾的手機"},{"start":31.25,"end":33.85,"text":"根據這個我看到的新聞資料是顯示說"},{"start":33.85,"end":35.65,"text":"就只能打電話跟傳簡訊"},{"start":35.65,"end":37.849999999999994,"text":"如果你要看影音 或者你上社群"},{"start":37.849999999999994,"end":39.85,"text":"就會很明顯感覺到跑不動"},{"start":39.85,"end":41.45,"text":"所以這是攸關"},{"start":41.45,"end":43.75,"text":"因為現在大家網路真的很重要嘛"},{"start":43.75,"end":45.35,"text":"這個大家都離不開網路"},{"start":45.35,"end":47.15,"text":"所以這是影響很大的事情"},{"start":47.15,"end":48.75,"text":"影響非常大"},{"start":48.75,"end":50.25,"text":"但是很詭異啦"},{"start":50.25,"end":51.55,"text":"因為這個消息"},{"start":51.55,"end":54.65,"text":"國防部好像並沒有很大肆的去宣傳"},{"start":54.65,"end":57.349999999999994,"text":"這兩天大家會知道是因為有人"},{"start":57.349999999999994,"end":58.15,"text":"有網友啦"},{"start":58.15,"end":60.35,"text":"在內政部的網站上面看到這個訊息"},{"start":60.35,"end":62.15,"text":"然後發到吹上面"},{"start":62.15,"end":63.949999999999996,"text":"所以開始媒體知道之後報導"},{"start":63.949999999999996,"end":65.55,"text":"大家才知道這個事情"},{"start":65.55,"end":67.25,"text":"我不知道為什麼國防部"},{"start":67.25,"end":68.75,"text":"會不會覺得宣傳不夠"},{"start":68.75,"end":70.35,"text":"是不是應該要讓大家知道"},{"start":70.35,"end":71.75,"text":"否則的話"},{"start":71.75,"end":73.15,"text":"到時候我們看到我們北部"},{"start":73.15,"end":75.05,"text":"是8月13號下午2點半嘛"},{"start":75.05,"end":77.15,"text":"如果你不曉得說這個跑不動"},{"start":77.15,"end":79.35,"text":"是因為國防部演習的話"},{"start":79.35,"end":81.15,"text":"到時候哇 那可能就是"},{"start":81.15,"end":82.35,"text":"大家很恐慌啊"},{"start":82.35,"end":83.75,"text":"而且會一直"},{"start":83.75,"end":85.55,"text":"可能會到處詢問發生什麼事"},{"start":85.55,"end":88.25,"text":"所以這個宣傳是真的很不夠"},{"start":88.25,"end":89.75,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":89.75,"end":93.85,"text":"這個並不是由國防部來主管的事項"},{"start":93.85,"end":95.64999999999999,"text":"因為這是由NCC規劃"},{"start":95.64999999999999,"end":96.35,"text":"這是第一點"},{"start":96.35,"end":97.14999999999999,"text":"第二點"},{"start":97.14999999999999,"end":99.85,"text":"相關影響的各部會的部分"},{"start":99.85,"end":101.55,"text":"由行政院這個部分"},{"start":101.55,"end":104.65,"text":"會有一個跨部會的一個說明"},{"start":104.65,"end":109.25,"text":"來說明相關的這些應變的機制等等"},{"start":109.25,"end":111.35,"text":"國防部的部分就是說"},{"start":111.55,"end":115.55,"text":"我們會在這個漢光演習的期間"},{"start":115.55,"end":118.14999999999999,"text":"就這一個行動網路降速的部分"},{"start":118.14999999999999,"end":120.05,"text":"我們因應暫時網路訊號"},{"start":120.05,"end":121.55,"text":"可能遭遇阻斷"},{"start":121.55,"end":126.55,"text":"我們依照相關的統頁所過來"},{"start":126.55,"end":127.14999999999999,"text":"因為"},{"start":127.14999999999999,"end":127.75,"text":"護士配合"},{"start":127.75,"end":128.75,"text":"等一下 部長等一下"},{"start":128.75,"end":130.54999999999998,"text":"所以您在提繞說國防部要"},{"start":130.54999999999998,"end":131.35,"text":"不是 等一下好不好"},{"start":131.35,"end":132.45,"text":"不是 第一個嘛"},{"start":132.45,"end":134.35,"text":"這個事情是跟國防部有關嘛"},{"start":134.35,"end":136.25,"text":"主要是國防部演習嘛"},{"start":136.25,"end":137.75,"text":"才會發生這件事情嘛"},{"start":137.75,"end":138.25,"text":"不是"},{"start":138.25,"end":140.04999999999998,"text":"那國防部怎麼會忽然間說"},{"start":140.05,"end":142.25,"text":"這個事情是別的單位"},{"start":142.25,"end":144.05,"text":"所以你認為是哪個單位的事情"},{"start":144.05,"end":145.85000000000002,"text":"所以顧部長"},{"start":145.85000000000002,"end":148.15,"text":"這個宣傳不力是哪個單位的事"},{"start":148.15,"end":148.65,"text":"你講嘛"},{"start":148.65,"end":150.85000000000002,"text":"國防部是進行漢光演習"},{"start":150.85000000000002,"end":152.85000000000002,"text":"那請問一下是哪個單位宣傳"},{"start":152.85000000000002,"end":155.35000000000002,"text":"宣傳不力是哪個單位的事"},{"start":155.35000000000002,"end":156.15,"text":"全社會黃衛任信"},{"start":156.15,"end":157.45000000000002,"text":"所以那好 沒關係"},{"start":157.45000000000002,"end":158.15,"text":"那沒關係"},{"start":158.15,"end":159.05,"text":"內政部跟NCC"},{"start":159.05,"end":160.95000000000002,"text":"所以是內政部跟NCC宣傳不力"},{"start":160.95000000000002,"end":163.95000000000002,"text":"NCC內政部在負責這個"},{"start":163.95000000000002,"end":166.15,"text":"所以是你們是負責演習"},{"start":166.15,"end":168.35000000000002,"text":"但是演習所產生出來的事情"},{"start":168.35,"end":169.45,"text":"要去宣傳的話"},{"start":169.45,"end":171.54999999999998,"text":"是內政部跟NCC的事情"},{"start":171.54999999999998,"end":172.54999999999998,"text":"所以今天民眾"},{"start":172.54999999999998,"end":174.35,"text":"如果不知道這個事情的話"},{"start":174.35,"end":175.95,"text":"是要去找NL政部跟NCC"},{"start":175.95,"end":177.04999999999998,"text":"你那意思是這樣嘛"},{"start":177.04999999999998,"end":178.25,"text":"就是你們有分工嘛"},{"start":178.25,"end":178.75,"text":"是不是"},{"start":178.75,"end":182.25,"text":"在7月22號會召開一個說明會"},{"start":182.25,"end":184.45,"text":"行政院的部會也會在23號"},{"start":184.45,"end":185.25,"text":"就我的理解"},{"start":185.25,"end":186.45,"text":"我會行政院做一個"},{"start":186.45,"end":188.45,"text":"跨部會的一個說明會這樣子"},{"start":188.45,"end":190.15,"text":"所以到目前為止"},{"start":190.15,"end":191.04999999999998,"text":"還沒開始宣傳"},{"start":191.04999999999998,"end":192.85,"text":"你的意思說還沒開始宣傳"},{"start":192.85,"end":193.95,"text":"規劃上面我們"},{"start":193.95,"end":195.15,"text":"還沒開始"},{"start":195.15,"end":196.25,"text":"那沒關係"},{"start":196.25,"end":197.45,"text":"我這邊只是提醒"},{"start":197.45,"end":200.95,"text":"因為這個事情影響民眾很大"},{"start":200.95,"end":202.95,"text":"上網大家都隨時都要再上網"},{"start":202.95,"end":204.35,"text":"那目前為止"},{"start":204.35,"end":205.95,"text":"這個消息是從內政部網站"},{"start":205.95,"end":206.75,"text":"有人看到"},{"start":206.75,"end":208.25,"text":"那如果部部長的態度是說"},{"start":208.25,"end":210.64999999999998,"text":"那個是內政部跟NCC的事情"},{"start":210.64999999999998,"end":211.54999999999998,"text":"那也沒有關係"},{"start":211.54999999999998,"end":212.45,"text":"反正有人做"},{"start":212.45,"end":213.75,"text":"到時候我們再做不好"},{"start":213.75,"end":215.54999999999998,"text":"我們再去找他們"},{"start":215.54999999999998,"end":216.35,"text":"但是反正就是"},{"start":216.35,"end":217.45,"text":"你有把握這個事情"},{"start":217.45,"end":219.25,"text":"是讓大家都會知道嘛"},{"start":219.25,"end":220.85,"text":"因為這事情很嚴重嘛"},{"start":220.85,"end":222.64999999999998,"text":"就是我的理解是"},{"start":222.64999999999998,"end":226.04999999999998,"text":"會做一個周延的一個說明"},{"start":226.05,"end":227.55,"text":"希望是這樣子"},{"start":227.55,"end":228.85000000000002,"text":"那第二"},{"start":228.85000000000002,"end":230.55,"text":"我有看到您的回覆是說"},{"start":230.55,"end":231.55,"text":"為什麼要做這件事情"},{"start":231.55,"end":234.85000000000002,"text":"是因為要把民間的網路做備援"},{"start":234.85000000000002,"end":235.25,"text":"對不對"},{"start":235.25,"end":236.25,"text":"您是有這樣子講嗎"},{"start":236.25,"end":237.65,"text":"早上的時候"},{"start":237.65,"end":239.05,"text":"你說將民間的網路"},{"start":239.05,"end":240.05,"text":"那就是因為"},{"start":240.05,"end":241.95000000000002,"text":"為什麼今天要做這個降速的動作"},{"start":241.95000000000002,"end":242.75,"text":"是要"},{"start":242.75,"end":244.55,"text":"您好像有回答媒體"},{"start":244.55,"end":245.55,"text":"或其他委員的時候"},{"start":245.55,"end":246.65,"text":"是有提到說"},{"start":246.65,"end":248.15,"text":"要把那個頻寬"},{"start":248.15,"end":249.15,"text":"做徵用是不是"},{"start":249.15,"end":250.15,"text":"然後當假設"},{"start":250.15,"end":252.35000000000002,"text":"軍中的網路是比較豐富"},{"start":252.35000000000002,"end":253.35000000000002,"text":"你說我早上接受訪問嗎"},{"start":253.35000000000002,"end":254.65,"text":"對 你有提到備援嘛"},{"start":254.65,"end":255.65,"text":"那提到備援"},{"start":255.65,"end":257.55,"text":"講到備援是我們國軍"},{"start":257.55,"end":259.45,"text":"要做好相關的"},{"start":259.45,"end":262.25,"text":"指管任性的備援的一個配置"},{"start":262.25,"end":264.65,"text":"對 完成通訊指管的規劃"},{"start":264.65,"end":266.05,"text":"不管是運用光纖"},{"start":266.05,"end":267.15,"text":"無線電 微波"},{"start":267.15,"end":268.15,"text":"跟衛星的手段"},{"start":268.15,"end":269.65,"text":"那請問那跟這個降速"},{"start":269.65,"end":270.85,"text":"是有什麼關係"},{"start":270.85,"end":271.95,"text":"那因為如果"},{"start":271.95,"end":273.05,"text":"我們也要演"},{"start":273.05,"end":274.05,"text":"我們漢光演習"},{"start":274.05,"end":276.25,"text":"是屬於我們軍方的這個演習"},{"start":276.25,"end":278.65,"text":"那我們如果也可以是想定說"},{"start":278.65,"end":281.05,"text":"讓這個行動網路"},{"start":281.05,"end":283.55,"text":"有相當程度受阻的情況之下"},{"start":283.55,"end":285.15000000000003,"text":"那我們如何做好"},{"start":285.15000000000003,"end":287.05,"text":"我們的通訊指管的規劃"},{"start":287.05,"end":287.55,"text":"對對對"},{"start":287.55,"end":289.05,"text":"來維持這個任性這樣子"},{"start":289.05,"end":290.55,"text":"對 那這兩個關聯性是什麼"},{"start":290.55,"end":292.85,"text":"如果假設暫時的時候"},{"start":292.85,"end":294.35,"text":"通訊網路有送阻"},{"start":294.35,"end":296.35,"text":"那會對軍方的影響是什麼"},{"start":296.35,"end":298.25,"text":"我們本來就屬於"},{"start":298.25,"end":300.85,"text":"再跟委員他會解釋一下"},{"start":300.85,"end":302.75,"text":"我們本來就是"},{"start":302.75,"end":303.45,"text":"我們漢光"},{"start":303.45,"end":305.25,"text":"如果沒有涉及到全民防衛"},{"start":305.25,"end":306.15000000000003,"text":"全社會防衛任性"},{"start":306.15000000000003,"end":308.05,"text":"我們軍方本來就有一個"},{"start":308.05,"end":309.85,"text":"所謂的PACE的概念"},{"start":309.85,"end":312.45,"text":"就是說當你主要的通訊"},{"start":312.45,"end":313.45,"text":"被破壞了"},{"start":313.45,"end":314.65,"text":"你還有次要"},{"start":314.65,"end":316.25,"text":"次要的時候還有一個應急"},{"start":316.25,"end":317.84999999999997,"text":"應急之後還有一個緊急"},{"start":317.84999999999997,"end":318.75,"text":"這樣子的一個"},{"start":318.75,"end":321.45,"text":"通聯手段的一個任性的維護"},{"start":321.45,"end":322.84999999999997,"text":"那這個本來就在我們"},{"start":322.84999999999997,"end":324.65,"text":"會規劃想定的範圍之內"},{"start":324.65,"end":325.05,"text":"對"},{"start":325.05,"end":327.25,"text":"那現在只是說這一個全"},{"start":327.25,"end":329.25,"text":"國家通訊管理委員會"},{"start":329.25,"end":331.65,"text":"在就這個今年的全社會"},{"start":331.65,"end":335.15,"text":"成正任性的防空演習的時候"},{"start":335.15,"end":338.34999999999997,"text":"也會同時來就全民來實施這個"},{"start":338.34999999999997,"end":340.84999999999997,"text":"行動網路降速的這個演練"},{"start":340.84999999999997,"end":342.75,"text":"那我們國防部本身的通訊"},{"start":342.75,"end":344.55,"text":"指管本身本來就是會在"},{"start":344.55,"end":345.45,"text":"平常我們的"},{"start":346.55,"end":349.05,"text":"想定的範圍也會透過我們的"},{"start":349.05,"end":350.05,"text":"不得不說"},{"start":350.05,"end":350.95,"text":"不得不說"},{"start":350.95,"end":351.95,"text":"或者是實行演練"},{"start":351.95,"end":353.15,"text":"你那個意思"},{"start":353.15,"end":355.15,"text":"所以你的意思是說軍方的"},{"start":355.15,"end":357.35,"text":"封閉網路其實是一回事"},{"start":357.35,"end":359.95,"text":"那今天要針對民間的網路"},{"start":359.95,"end":362.45,"text":"要降速是針對全民動員的部分"},{"start":362.45,"end":364.35,"text":"就是民間到時候"},{"start":364.35,"end":366.55,"text":"比如說暫時大家也會被動員到"},{"start":366.55,"end":367.65,"text":"也有一些任務"},{"start":367.65,"end":368.55,"text":"全方的"},{"start":368.55,"end":369.15,"text":"對"},{"start":369.15,"end":370.05,"text":"然後我還沒"},{"start":370.05,"end":371.65,"text":"我又怕誤會你的意思"},{"start":371.65,"end":372.55,"text":"所以"},{"start":372.55,"end":374.65000000000003,"text":"其實網路不見得完全是封閉的"},{"start":374.65000000000003,"end":375.45,"text":"他也會用"},{"start":375.45,"end":376.85,"text":"沒關係反正是兩回事"},{"start":376.85,"end":378.55,"text":"就是說你們也不是真用"},{"start":378.55,"end":379.95,"text":"你們只是說到時候"},{"start":379.95,"end":381.45,"text":"如果有戰爭的話"},{"start":381.45,"end":383.45,"text":"一般民眾可能也會有任務"},{"start":383.45,"end":385.55,"text":"因為我們現在只有全民動員"},{"start":385.55,"end":387.35,"text":"那如果網路受影響的話"},{"start":387.35,"end":388.95,"text":"那對於全民動員會有什麼影響"},{"start":388.95,"end":391.35,"text":"你現在是要演習這個部分沒錯吧"},{"start":391.35,"end":394.05,"text":"就全社會防衛任性的部分是這樣"},{"start":394.05,"end":395.05,"text":"那我們軍方"},{"start":395.05,"end":395.85,"text":"有軍方的"},{"start":395.85,"end":397.45,"text":"我知道這講過我知道"},{"start":397.45,"end":398.65000000000003,"text":"不要一直重複"},{"start":398.65000000000003,"end":399.85,"text":"那現在是說"},{"start":399.85,"end":402.15000000000003,"text":"你現在是要演練大概"},{"start":402.15,"end":404.15,"text":"跟民間的部分是30分鐘"},{"start":404.15,"end":405.95,"text":"尤其只有行動電源"},{"start":405.95,"end":407.04999999999995,"text":"只有行動通訊"},{"start":407.04999999999995,"end":407.95,"text":"僱王是沒有"},{"start":407.95,"end":408.95,"text":"沒有"},{"start":408.95,"end":409.95,"text":"那我想請教一下"},{"start":409.95,"end":411.04999999999995,"text":"因為"},{"start":411.04999999999995,"end":414.25,"text":"行動這個其實影響已經有產生了"},{"start":414.25,"end":416.04999999999995,"text":"那到時候大家很不方便"},{"start":416.04999999999995,"end":417.95,"text":"那但是如果說要按照演習的話"},{"start":417.95,"end":419.45,"text":"你一定是逐步擴大"},{"start":419.45,"end":420.15,"text":"譬如說"},{"start":420.15,"end":421.25,"text":"這一次沒有僱王"},{"start":421.25,"end":422.65,"text":"那你下一次是不是就會"},{"start":422.65,"end":425.15,"text":"演習僱王被斷的狀況"},{"start":425.15,"end":426.15,"text":"我想"},{"start":426.15,"end":429.04999999999995,"text":"國防部就是負責我們軍方的演習的部分"},{"start":429.04999999999995,"end":432.04999999999995,"text":"那至於其他全社會防衛任性的部分"},{"start":432.05,"end":433.35,"text":"整體的來講"},{"start":433.35,"end":436.15000000000003,"text":"當然如果涉及到行動網路降速有NCC"},{"start":436.15000000000003,"end":439.95,"text":"那全社會防衛任性有內政部"},{"start":439.95,"end":442.05,"text":"然後再往上的話會有行政院"},{"start":442.05,"end":444.45,"text":"你都講得好像跟你都無關的樣子"},{"start":444.45,"end":445.55,"text":"我就好奇怪了"},{"start":445.55,"end":446.35,"text":"我沒有說跟我們無關"},{"start":446.35,"end":447.55,"text":"怎麼好像都是別人的事"},{"start":447.55,"end":448.45,"text":"跟你都沒關係"},{"start":448.45,"end":450.45,"text":"我現在問說你現在"},{"start":450.45,"end":453.55,"text":"你現在是第一步是行動通訊"},{"start":453.55,"end":455.35,"text":"然後下一步是不是僱王"},{"start":455.35,"end":456.75,"text":"還有就是我們都知道說"},{"start":456.75,"end":457.65000000000003,"text":"其實真正會"},{"start":457.65000000000003,"end":459.15000000000003,"text":"如果真正的戰時"},{"start":459.15000000000003,"end":461.05,"text":"影響最大的是我們的電網"},{"start":461.05,"end":462.55,"text":"供電網被斷了"},{"start":462.55,"end":464.75,"text":"那供電網影響更深"},{"start":464.75,"end":466.85,"text":"那你現在是不是會逐步"},{"start":466.85,"end":468.65000000000003,"text":"先行動通訊再僱王"},{"start":468.65000000000003,"end":470.05,"text":"然後再電網"},{"start":470.05,"end":471.05,"text":"是不是會這樣"},{"start":471.05,"end":472.75,"text":"越來就是影響民眾的部分"},{"start":472.75,"end":473.55,"text":"會越來越大"},{"start":473.55,"end":475.95,"text":"我現在沒有辦法回答你這個問題"},{"start":475.95,"end":478.15000000000003,"text":"我只能夠說這會由行政院做統盤"},{"start":478.15000000000003,"end":479.05,"text":"對那如果"},{"start":479.05,"end":480.15000000000003,"text":"因為你如果說"},{"start":480.15000000000003,"end":483.15000000000003,"text":"你之後沒有去演習僱王或是電王"},{"start":483.15000000000003,"end":485.55,"text":"那你只有演習行動通訊"},{"start":485.55,"end":487.15000000000003,"text":"那大家就會覺得說"},{"start":487.15000000000003,"end":489.65000000000003,"text":"你這個演習到底是玩真的還是玩假的"},{"start":489.75,"end":493.15,"text":"軍方的部分當然不會只有演習到這個程度"},{"start":493.15,"end":495.34999999999997,"text":"那我們軍方的環境"},{"start":495.34999999999997,"end":497.34999999999997,"text":"會設想的更嚴苛"},{"start":497.34999999999997,"end":499.95,"text":"那至於全民全社會"},{"start":499.95,"end":501.45,"text":"城鎮任性的這個"},{"start":501.45,"end":505.15,"text":"防空演習要怎麼樣的進行演練的規劃"},{"start":505.15,"end":506.34999999999997,"text":"這要由行政院"},{"start":507.07000000000005,"end":508.57000000000005,"text":"跨部會來做協調"},{"start":508.57000000000005,"end":510.57000000000005,"text":"跨部會你就是很重要的單位"},{"start":511.71000000000004,"end":513.71,"text":"我都講的都跟你沒關係"},{"start":513.71,"end":514.51,"text":"我沒有說過"},{"start":514.51,"end":515.61,"text":"你的態度就是"},{"start":515.61,"end":517.41,"text":"你太多就問到什麼都是"},{"start":517.41,"end":518.3100000000001,"text":"你都無法回答"},{"start":518.3100000000001,"end":521.01,"text":"都是說那是行政院NCC內政部"},{"start":521.01,"end":522.51,"text":"我們軍方這是一個"},{"start":522.51,"end":524.71,"text":"國防部長應有的態度嗎"},{"start":524.71,"end":526.71,"text":"這個委員這樣講很不公平嗎"},{"start":526.71,"end":527.91,"text":"大家可受公平"},{"start":527.91,"end":530.41,"text":"現在這個有關於戰爭動員演習"},{"start":530.41,"end":532.3100000000001,"text":"大家當然認為國防部是組織機關"},{"start":532.3100000000001,"end":533.51,"text":"那當然上面還有行政院"},{"start":533.51,"end":535.11,"text":"但是問到相關的就是說"},{"start":535.11,"end":536.21,"text":"那行政院的事情"},{"start":536.21,"end":538.71,"text":"或者是宣傳內政部NCC的事"},{"start":538.71,"end":539.91,"text":"然後好像跟你的"},{"start":539.91,"end":541.81,"text":"跟你都沒什麼關係"},{"start":541.81,"end":543.81,"text":"您可能要清楚分隔一下"},{"start":543.81,"end":545.11,"text":"我當然知道有分工"},{"start":545.11,"end":548.51,"text":"但是你是一個非常重要的組織單位"},{"start":548.51,"end":551.7099999999999,"text":"你是一個很重要的組織單位"},{"start":553.37,"end":555.37,"text":"我們不在"},{"start":555.37,"end":556.87,"text":"你剛剛的態度就讓人家覺得"},{"start":556.87,"end":559.07,"text":"但是這樣你剛剛一直在問到說"},{"start":559.07,"end":560.37,"text":"後續如何"},{"start":560.37,"end":562.57,"text":"我從一開始問宣傳"},{"start":562.57,"end":564.27,"text":"然後到後來"},{"start":564.27,"end":566.17,"text":"因為這個影響民眾"},{"start":566.17,"end":568.27,"text":"所以大家當然會想要知道"},{"start":568.27,"end":568.47,"text":"對"},{"start":568.47,"end":570.27,"text":"那已經做說明了"},{"start":570.27,"end":572.37,"text":"行政院應該會做一個整體"},{"start":572.37,"end":574.47,"text":"好那這一次是14個縣市"},{"start":574.47,"end":575.47,"text":"不是全台"},{"start":575.47,"end":576.37,"text":"我有最後一個問題"},{"start":576.37,"end":577.57,"text":"進行後續"},{"start":577.57,"end":579.17,"text":"這個也不是國防部"},{"start":579.17,"end":580.27,"text":"都不是國防部"},{"start":580.27,"end":580.67,"text":"沒關係"},{"start":580.67,"end":581.67,"text":"都不是國防部"},{"start":581.67,"end":583.67,"text":"這個是涉及到行政院"},{"start":583.67,"end":585.67,"text":"那國防部都沒有角色嗎"},{"start":586.22,"end":587.82,"text":"時間的關係"},{"start":587.82,"end":589.82,"text":"這個部分是不是可以"},{"start":589.82,"end":591.82,"text":"再後續清楚說明"},{"start":591.82,"end":593.82,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":593.82,"end":595.32,"text":"還要停"},{"start":595.32,"end":597.32,"text":"就這樣 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:34:22.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:34:24.554000+08:00","text":"主席好，麻煩請部長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-20T12:34:25.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:34:25.610000+08:00","text":"請顧部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:34:25.610000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T12:34:32.796667+08:00","text":"葉委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:34:32.796667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:35:27.372222+08:00","text":"顧部長，我想承襲剛剛很多委員大家的問題，就是你們預計在8月10號跟8月13號演習，然後現在傳出來的消息是說下午兩點半到三點網路會降速，根據我看到的新聞資料顯示，到時候民眾的手機就只能打電話跟傳簡訊，如果你要看影音或者上社群就會很明顯感覺到跑不動，所以這個是攸關……因為現在網路對大家來說真的很重要，大家都離不開網路，所以這是影響很大的事情、影響非常大，但很詭異的是，這個消息國防部好像並沒有大肆宣傳，這兩天大家會知道是因為有網友在內政部的網站上看到這個訊息，然後發到Threads上面，媒體知道之後就報導，大家才知道這個事情。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:35:27.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:35:30.583333+08:00","text":"我不知道國防部會不會覺得宣傳不夠？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:35:30.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:35:32.204545+08:00","text":"是不是應該要讓大家知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:35:32.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:35:50.025000+08:00","text":"否則到時候……我們看到北部是8月13號下午2點半，如果你不曉得網路跑不動是因為國防部演習的話，到時候大家可能會很恐慌，而且可能會一直到處詢問發生什麼事，所以這個宣傳是真的很不夠。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:35:50.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:26.050000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個並不是由國防部來主管的事項，因為這是由NCC規劃，這是第一點；第二點，相關影響各部會的部分，行政院會有一個跨部會的說明來說明相關的應變機制等等，而國防部的部分，我們會在漢光演習期間就行動網路降速的部分，為因應戰時網路訊號可能遭敵阻斷，我們依照相關的……","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:36:29.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:30.625000+08:00","text":"部長，你講的跟我講的不是同一件事，部長，等一下……","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:36:30.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:32.386364+08:00","text":"所以您提到國防部要……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:36:32.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:33.250000+08:00","text":"等一下好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:36:33.716667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:40+08:00","text":"第一個，這個事情是跟國防部有關，主要是國防部演習才會發生這件事情嘛……不是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:36:40.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:44.005556+08:00","text":"那國防部怎麼會忽然間說這個事情是別的單位……","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:36:44.005556+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:45.005556+08:00","text":"國防部是進行……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:36:44.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:45.911538+08:00","text":"所以你認為是哪個單位的事情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:36:46.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:49.973077+08:00","text":"顧部長，宣傳不力是哪個單位的事？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:36:50.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:50.483333+08:00","text":"你講嘛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:36:50.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:52.630000+08:00","text":"國防部是進行漢光演習……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:36:53.016667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:54.683333+08:00","text":"請問一下是哪個單位負責宣傳？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:36:54.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:57.122727+08:00","text":"宣傳不力是哪個單位的事？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:36:57.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:58.335714+08:00","text":"這個是全社會防衛韌性，所以內政部……","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:36:58.707143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:36:59.975000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係……","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:37:00.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:37:00.921429+08:00","text":"內政部跟NCC……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:37:01.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:37:02.814286+08:00","text":"所以是內政部跟NCC宣傳不力？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:37:03.768182+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:37:05.131818+08:00","text":"內政部在負責全社會防衛韌性……","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:37:05.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:37:13.359091+08:00","text":"所以你們是負責演習，但是演習所產生出來的事情，要去宣傳的話是內政部跟NCC的事情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:37:13.883333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:37:20.583333+08:00","text":"今天民眾如果不知道這個事情的話是要去找內政部跟NCC，您的意思是這樣嘛，就是你們有分工，是不是？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:37:20.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:37:29.783333+08:00","text":"NCC會在7月22號召開一個說明會，就我的理解，行政院也會在23號做一個跨部會的說明會。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:37:30.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:37:32.900000+08:00","text":"所以到目前為止還沒開始宣傳？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:37:33.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:37:34.686364+08:00","text":"你的意思是還沒開始宣傳？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:37:34.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:37:35.766667+08:00","text":"規劃上面我們知道的時程……","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:37:35.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:37:36.850000+08:00","text":"還沒開始？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:37:37.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:38:02.672222+08:00","text":"那沒有關係，我這邊只是提醒，因為這個事情影響民眾很大，大家隨時都要上網，目前為止，這個消息是有人從內政部網站上看到，如果顧部長的態度是說，那個是內政部跟NCC的事情，也沒有關係，反正有人做，到時候如果做不好，我們再去找他們，反正就是你有把握這個事情會讓大家都知道，因為這個事情很嚴重嘛。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:38:02.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:38:07.740909+08:00","text":"就是我的理解是會再做一個周延的說明。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:38:08.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:38:09.300000+08:00","text":"好，希望是這樣子啦！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:38:09.983333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:38:17.116667+08:00","text":"第二，我有看到您的回復，為什麼要做這件事情是因為要把民間的網路做備援對不對？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:38:17.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:38:18+08:00","text":"早上你是有這樣子講嘛？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:38:19.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:38:20.875000+08:00","text":"您說將民間的網路做備援？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:38:21.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:38:30.983333+08:00","text":"就是為什麼今天要做這個降速的動作，您好像在回答媒體或其他委員的時候有提到，要把那個頻寬做徵用，是不是？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:38:32.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:38:33.690000+08:00","text":"軍中的網路是比較封閉……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:38:34.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:38:35.150000+08:00","text":"你說我早上接受訪問？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:38:35.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:38:36.325000+08:00","text":"對，你有提到備援。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:38:37.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:38:49.983333+08:00","text":"沒有，講到備援是我們國軍要做好相關的指管韌性備援的配置，來完成通訊指管的規劃，不管是運用光纖、無線電、微波跟衛星的手段。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:38:50.316667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:38:52.650000+08:00","text":"請問跟這個降速是有什麼關係？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:38:53.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:39:10.450000+08:00","text":"因為漢光演習是屬於我們軍方的演習，那我們也可以想定，當行動網路有相當程度受阻的情況之下，我們如何做好我們通訊指管的規劃來維持這個韌性。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:39:11.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:39:12.413636+08:00","text":"對，這兩者的關聯性是什麼？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:39:13.061111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:39:18.168182+08:00","text":"假設在戰時，通訊網路有受阻，對軍方的影響是什麼？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:39:18.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:40:13.807143+08:00","text":"我們本來就屬於……跟委員解釋一下，本來我們漢光如果沒有涉及到全民防衛、全社會防衛韌性，我們軍方本來就有一個所謂PACE的概念，就是當主要的通訊被破壞了，還有次要的，次要的之後還有一個應急，應急之後還有一個緊急，這樣一個通聯手段的韌性維護，這本來就在我們規劃想定的範圍之內，現在只是國家通訊傳播委員會在今年的全社會城鎮韌性的防空演習的時候，也會同時就全民來實施這個行動網路降速的演練，而我們國防部的通訊指管本身本來就是會在平常我們的想定範圍，也會透過我們不管是兵推或者是實兵演練……","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:40:13.807143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T12:40:15.150000+08:00","text":"好，了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:40:15.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:40:24.257692+08:00","text":"所以您的意思是，軍方的封閉網路其實是一回事，今天針對民間的網路要降速是針對全民動員的部分？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:40:24.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:40:34.100000+08:00","text":"就是民間比如在戰時，大家也會被動員到，也有一些任務，因為我怕誤會你的意思，所以……","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:40:34.873077+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:40:37.250000+08:00","text":"軍方的網路不見得完全是封閉的，也會用……","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:40:37.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:40:53.178571+08:00","text":"沒關係，反正是兩回事啦，你們也不是徵用，只是到時候如果有戰爭的話，一般民眾可能也會有任務，因為我們現在走全民動員，如果網路受影響的話，對於全民動員會有什麼影響，你現在是要演習這個部分沒錯吧？","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:40:53.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:40:57.650000+08:00","text":"就全社會防衛韌性的部分是這樣，而我們軍方有軍方的……","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:40:57.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:41:00.450000+08:00","text":"我知道，這個講過了，我知道，不用重複。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:41:00.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:41:10.450000+08:00","text":"現在你們要演練，跟民間的部分是30分鐘，只有行動通訊，固網是沒有？沒有。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:41:11.092857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:41:26.872222+08:00","text":"我想請教一下，因為這個影響其實已經有產生了，到時候大家會很不方便，但是如果按照演習來看的話，你一定是逐步擴大，譬如這一次沒有固網，那你下一次是不是就會演習固網被斷的狀況？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:41:27.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:41:43.875000+08:00","text":"我想國防部就是負責我們軍方演習的部分，至於其他全社會防衛韌性的部分，整體來講，當然如果涉及到行動網路降速會有NCC，全社會防衛韌性會有內政部，然後再往上的話會有行政院做一個統籌的規劃。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:41:44.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:41:46.278571+08:00","text":"為什麼你都講得好像都跟你無關的樣子？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:41:46.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:41:47.183333+08:00","text":"我覺得好奇怪喔！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:41:47.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:41:48.261111+08:00","text":"我沒有說跟我們無關……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:41:48.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:41:56.810000+08:00","text":"怎麼好像都是別人的事，跟你都沒關係，我現在是問，你現在第一步是行動通訊，下一步是不是固網？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:41:57.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:42:11.770000+08:00","text":"還有，我們都知道，如果真正在戰時，影響最大的是我們的電網、供電網被斷，供電網的影響更深，你現在是不是會逐步做，先行動通訊再固網，然後再電網？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:42:12.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:42:15.390000+08:00","text":"是不是影響民眾的部分會越來越大？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:42:15.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:42:19.992857+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我現在沒有辦法回答您這個問題，我只能夠說這個會由行政院做通盤的規劃。","quality":0.703},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:42:20.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:42:31.493750+08:00","text":"因為如果你之後沒有去演習固網或是電網，只有演習行動通訊的部分，大家就會覺得你這個演習到底是玩真的還是玩假的？","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:42:31.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:42:50.355714+08:00","text":"就我們軍方的部分，當然不會只有演習到這個程度，我們軍方的環境會設想得更嚴苛，至於全社會城鎮韌性的防空演習要怎麼樣進行、演練的規劃，這要由行政院跨部會來做協調。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:42:50.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:42:52.403333+08:00","text":"跨部會，你就是很重要的單位啊！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:42:53.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:42:55.510000+08:00","text":"怎麼都講得都跟你沒關係？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:42:55.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:42:56.190000+08:00","text":"我沒有說跟我們沒有關係。","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:42:56.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:42:57.426667+08:00","text":"你的態度就是啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:42:57.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:02.817143+08:00","text":"你的態度就是問到什麼你都無法回答，都是說那是行政院、NCC、內政部……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:03.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:03.572500+08:00","text":"我們軍方……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:03.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:06.490000+08:00","text":"這是一個國防部長應有的態度嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:07.043333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:08.376667+08:00","text":"委員這樣講很不公平吧！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:09.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:09.510000+08:00","text":"這個可受公評啊！","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:09.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:23.572500+08:00","text":"現在有關於戰爭動員、演習，大家當然認為國防部是主責機關，當然上面還有行政院，但是問到相關的就說那是行政院的事情，或者宣傳是內政部、NCC的事，好像跟你都沒什麼關係。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:23.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:25.610000+08:00","text":"葉委員，您可能要清楚分隔一下……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:25.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:30.283333+08:00","text":"我當然知道有分工，但你是一個非常重要的主責單位嘛。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:30.283333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:31.283333+08:00","text":"全社會城鎮防衛韌性跟漢光演習的不同嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:30.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:33.443333+08:00","text":"你是一個很重要的主責單位嘛。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:35.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:36.870000+08:00","text":"我們沒有說我們不在這個……","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:37.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:39.377692+08:00","text":"你剛剛的態度就讓人家覺得是這樣啊！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:39.546923+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:42.045000+08:00","text":"但是你剛剛一直問到後續如何……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:42.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:50.079091+08:00","text":"我從一開始問宣傳，然後到後來……因為這個會影響民眾，所以大家當然會想要知道。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:50.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:54.179091+08:00","text":"對，剛剛已經做說明了，行政院應該會做一個整體的說明。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:54.836667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:57.220000+08:00","text":"這次是14個縣市，不是全臺嘛？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:57.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:43:58.257500+08:00","text":"這是最後一個問題啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:43:58.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:44:00.970000+08:00","text":"關於全社會城鎮防衛韌性要怎麼進行，後續這個也不是國防部能夠……","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:44:01.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:44:03.503333+08:00","text":"都不是國防部，沒關係，都不是國防部。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-20T12:44:03.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:44:05.447778+08:00","text":"不是國防部能夠主責的，這個是涉及到行政院要做一個規劃。","quality":0.36},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:44:05.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:44:07.470000+08:00","text":"國防部都沒有角色嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-20T12:44:08.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:44:13.534286+08:00","text":"因為時間的關係，這個部分是不是可以後續再清楚說明？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:44:13.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:44:15.153333+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-20T12:44:15.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:44:16.320000+08:00","text":"你還要提嗎？","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-20T12:44:17.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-20T12:44:18.920000+08:00","text":"沒關係，就這樣，謝謝。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-20T12:44:19.420000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T12:44:26.277143+08:00","text":"請國防部也提供國防部應該要提供的相關因應作為，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-20T12:44:26.577143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-20T12:44:30.291429+08:00","text":"接下來請陳冠廷委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":764,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（12時34分）主席好，麻煩請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：顧部長，我想承襲剛剛很多委員大家的問題，就是你們預計在8月10號跟8月13號演習，然後現在傳出來的消息是說下午兩點半到三點網路會降速，根據我看到的新聞資料顯示，到時候民眾的手機就只能打電話跟傳簡訊，如果你要看影音或者上社群就會很明顯感覺到跑不動，所以這個是攸關……因為現在網路對大家來說真的很重要，大家都離不開網路，所以這是影響很大的事情、影響非常大，但很詭異的是，這個消息國防部好像並沒有大肆宣傳，這兩天大家會知道是因為有網友在內政部的網站上看到這個訊息，然後發到Threads上面，媒體知道之後就報導，大家才知道這個事情。我不知道國防部會不會覺得宣傳不夠？是不是應該要讓大家知道？否則到時候……我們看到北部是8月13號下午2點半，如果你不曉得網路跑不動是因為國防部演習的話，到時候大家可能會很恐慌，而且可能會一直到處詢問發生什麼事，所以這個宣傳是真的很不夠。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，這個並不是由國防部來主管的事項，因為這是由NCC規劃，這是第一點；第二點，相關影響各部會的部分，行政院會有一個跨部會的說明來說明相關的應變機制等等，而國防部的部分，我們會在漢光演習期間就行動網路降速的部分，為因應戰時網路訊號可能遭敵阻斷，我們依照相關的……"],["葉委員元之：部長，你講的跟我講的不是同一件事，部長，等一下……"],["顧部長立雄：所以您提到國防部要……"],["葉委員元之：等一下好不好？第一個，這個事情是跟國防部有關，主要是國防部演習才會發生這件事情嘛……"],["顧部長立雄：不是……"],["葉委員元之：那國防部怎麼會忽然間說這個事情是別的單位……"],["顧部長立雄：國防部是進行……"],["葉委員元之：所以你認為是哪個單位的事情？顧部長，宣傳不力是哪個單位的事？你講嘛。"],["顧部長立雄：國防部是進行漢光演習……"],["葉委員元之：請問一下是哪個單位負責宣傳？宣傳不力是哪個單位的事？"],["顧部長立雄：這個是全社會防衛韌性，所以內政部……"],["葉委員元之：好，沒關係……"],["顧部長立雄：內政部跟NCC……"],["葉委員元之：所以是內政部跟NCC宣傳不力？"],["顧部長立雄：內政部在負責全社會防衛韌性……"],["葉委員元之：所以你們是負責演習，但是演習所產生出來的事情，要去宣傳的話是內政部跟NCC的事情？今天民眾如果不知道這個事情的話是要去找內政部跟NCC，您的意思是這樣嘛，就是你們有分工，是不是？"],["顧部長立雄：NCC會在7月22號召開一個說明會，就我的理解，行政院也會在23號做一個跨部會的說明會。"],["葉委員元之：所以到目前為止還沒開始宣傳？你的意思是還沒開始宣傳？"],["顧部長立雄：規劃上面我們知道的時程……"],["葉委員元之：還沒開始？那沒有關係，我這邊只是提醒，因為這個事情影響民眾很大，大家隨時都要上網，目前為止，這個消息是有人從內政部網站上看到，如果顧部長的態度是說，那個是內政部跟NCC的事情，也沒有關係，反正有人做，到時候如果做不好，我們再去找他們，反正就是你有把握這個事情會讓大家都知道，因為這個事情很嚴重嘛。"],["顧部長立雄：就是我的理解是會再做一個周延的說明。"],["葉委員元之：好，希望是這樣子啦！","第二，我有看到您的回復，為什麼要做這件事情是因為要把民間的網路做備援對不對？早上你是有這樣子講嘛？"],["顧部長立雄：您說將民間的網路做備援？"],["葉委員元之：就是為什麼今天要做這個降速的動作，您好像在回答媒體或其他委員的時候有提到，要把那個頻寬做徵用，是不是？軍中的網路是比較封閉……"],["顧部長立雄：你說我早上接受訪問？"],["葉委員元之：對，你有提到備援。"],["顧部長立雄：沒有，講到備援是我們國軍要做好相關的指管韌性備援的配置，來完成通訊指管的規劃，不管是運用光纖、無線電、微波跟衛星的手段。"],["葉委員元之：請問跟這個降速是有什麼關係？"],["顧部長立雄：因為漢光演習是屬於我們軍方的演習，那我們也可以想定，當行動網路有相當程度受阻的情況之下，我們如何做好我們通訊指管的規劃來維持這個韌性。"],["葉委員元之：對，這兩者的關聯性是什麼？假設在戰時，通訊網路有受阻，對軍方的影響是什麼？"],["顧部長立雄：我們本來就屬於……跟委員解釋一下，本來我們漢光如果沒有涉及到全民防衛、全社會防衛韌性，我們軍方本來就有一個所謂PACE的概念，就是當主要的通訊被破壞了，還有次要的，次要的之後還有一個應急，應急之後還有一個緊急，這樣一個通聯手段的韌性維護，這本來就在我們規劃想定的範圍之內，現在只是國家通訊傳播委員會在今年的全社會城鎮韌性的防空演習的時候，也會同時就全民來實施這個行動網路降速的演練，而我們國防部的通訊指管本身本來就是會在平常我們的想定範圍，也會透過我們不管是兵推或者是實兵演練……"],["葉委員元之：好，了解。所以您的意思是，軍方的封閉網路其實是一回事，今天針對民間的網路要降速是針對全民動員的部分？就是民間比如在戰時，大家也會被動員到，也有一些任務，因為我怕誤會你的意思，所以……"],["顧部長立雄：軍方的網路不見得完全是封閉的，也會用……"],["葉委員元之：沒關係，反正是兩回事啦，你們也不是徵用，只是到時候如果有戰爭的話，一般民眾可能也會有任務，因為我們現在走全民動員，如果網路受影響的話，對於全民動員會有什麼影響，你現在是要演習這個部分沒錯吧？"],["顧部長立雄：就全社會防衛韌性的部分是這樣，而我們軍方有軍方的……"],["葉委員元之：我知道，這個講過了，我知道，不用重複。現在你們要演練，跟民間的部分是30分鐘，只有行動通訊，固網是沒有？"],["顧部長立雄：沒有。"],["葉委員元之：我想請教一下，因為這個影響其實已經有產生了，到時候大家會很不方便，但是如果按照演習來看的話，你一定是逐步擴大，譬如這一次沒有固網，那你下一次是不是就會演習固網被斷的狀況？"],["顧部長立雄：我想國防部就是負責我們軍方演習的部分，至於其他全社會防衛韌性的部分，整體來講，當然如果涉及到行動網路降速會有NCC，全社會防衛韌性會有內政部，然後再往上的話會有行政院做一個統籌的規劃。"],["葉委員元之：為什麼你都講得好像都跟你無關的樣子？我覺得好奇怪喔！"],["顧部長立雄：我沒有說跟我們無關……"],["葉委員元之：怎麼好像都是別人的事，跟你都沒關係，我現在是問，你現在第一步是行動通訊，下一步是不是固網？還有，我們都知道，如果真正在戰時，影響最大的是我們的電網、供電網被斷，供電網的影響更深，你現在是不是會逐步做，先行動通訊再固網，然後再電網？是不是影響民眾的部分會越來越大？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我現在沒有辦法回答您這個問題，我只能夠說這個會由行政院做通盤的規劃。"],["葉委員元之：因為如果你之後沒有去演習固網或是電網，只有演習行動通訊的部分，大家就會覺得你這個演習到底是玩真的還是玩假的？"],["顧部長立雄：就我們軍方的部分，當然不會只有演習到這個程度，我們軍方的環境會設想得更嚴苛，至於全社會城鎮韌性的防空演習要怎麼樣進行、演練的規劃，這要由行政院跨部會來做協調。"],["葉委員元之：跨部會，你就是很重要的單位啊！怎麼都講得都跟你沒關係？"],["顧部長立雄：我沒有說跟我們沒有關係。"],["葉委員元之：你的態度就是啊！你的態度就是問到什麼你都無法回答，都是說那是行政院、NCC、內政部……"],["顧部長立雄：我們軍方……"],["葉委員元之：這是一個國防部長應有的態度嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：委員這樣講很不公平吧！"],["葉委員元之：這個可受公評啊！現在有關於戰爭動員、演習，大家當然認為國防部是主責機關，當然上面還有行政院，但是問到相關的就說那是行政院的事情，或者宣傳是內政部、NCC的事，好像跟你都沒什麼關係。"],["顧部長立雄：葉委員，您可能要清楚分隔一下……"],["葉委員元之：我當然知道有分工，但你是一個非常重要的主責單位嘛。"],["顧部長立雄：全社會城鎮防衛韌性跟漢光演習的不同嘛！"],["葉委員元之：你是一個很重要的主責單位嘛。"],["顧部長立雄：我們沒有說我們不在這個……"],["葉委員元之：你剛剛的態度就讓人家覺得是這樣啊！"],["顧部長立雄：但是你剛剛一直問到後續如何……"],["葉委員元之：我從一開始問宣傳，然後到後來……因為這個會影響民眾，所以大家當然會想要知道。"],["顧部長立雄：對，剛剛已經做說明了，行政院應該會做一個整體的說明。"],["葉委員元之：這次是14個縣市，不是全臺嘛？這是最後一個問題啦！"],["顧部長立雄：關於全社會城鎮防衛韌性要怎麼進行，後續這個也不是國防部能夠……"],["葉委員元之：都不是國防部，沒關係，都不是國防部。"],["顧部長立雄：不是國防部能夠主責的，這個是涉及到行政院要做一個規劃。"],["葉委員元之：國防部都沒有角色嗎？"],["主席：因為時間的關係，這個部分是不是可以後續再清楚說明？"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["主席：你還要提嗎？"],["葉委員元之：沒關係，就這樣，謝謝。"],["主席：請國防部也提供國防部應該要提供的相關因應作為，謝謝。","接下來請陳冠廷委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":386,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-35-27","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","陳俊宇","陳永康","牛煦庭","王義川","林楚茵","沈伯洋","馬文君","王安祥","黃建賓","許忠信","謝龍介","郭昱晴","洪孟楷","洪毓祥","賴士葆","徐巧芯","王鴻薇","葉元之","陳冠廷","黃仁","王定宇"],"page_start":325,"meetingDate":["2026-07-20"],"gazette_id":"1156401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第27次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國軍軍品採購履約爭議與違約致獲裝期程延宕採購策略精進作\n為」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1156401_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}