{"error":false,"id":["170617"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170617,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170617","日期":"2026-07-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-28","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":28,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-22T09:15:31+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-22T09:25:06+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:35","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7469000803f9b6aadf41a390d66d1a90888c219e53d07817b68ab154ef13fb3ffb440351d05509a35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳俊宇","委員發言時間":"09:15:31 - 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謝謝主席 有請嘉隆部長"},{"start":2.44,"end":4.44,"text":"請部長"},{"start":4.44,"end":6.44,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6.44,"end":8.44,"text":"部長早"},{"start":8.44,"end":10.44,"text":"早"},{"start":10.44,"end":14.44,"text":"部長 今天想就這個印太地區幾個議題跟部長請教"},{"start":14.44,"end":17.44,"text":"首先是這個南太平洋的這個八牛"},{"start":17.44,"end":19.44,"text":"巴布雅牛脊內牙"},{"start":19.44,"end":25.44,"text":"他在上週七月十五進行這個宣布關閉我們的代表處"},{"start":25.44,"end":29.44,"text":"那我想外交部當然不會接受八牛政府片面的這個決定"},{"start":29.44,"end":32.44,"text":"持續的來透過管道進行交涉"},{"start":32.44,"end":34.44,"text":"必要的時候也會採取因應的作為"},{"start":34.44,"end":39.44,"text":"那我們不確定這件事情在發生的這個之前"},{"start":39.44,"end":41.44,"text":"是否有什麼樣的一個徵兆"},{"start":41.44,"end":44.44,"text":"但我們往前去看近期相關的事件"},{"start":44.44,"end":50.44,"text":"在前一週中國有向這個南太平洋試射這個彈道飛彈"},{"start":50.44,"end":54.44,"text":"那澳洲跟八牛也為了共同防禦所簽署的這個條約"},{"start":54.44,"end":56.44,"text":"在當週生效"},{"start":56.44,"end":62.44,"text":"部長這不排除有這個美國中國還有澳洲在其中角力的這個因素"},{"start":62.44,"end":65.44,"text":"那對於八牛這個時候才採取這樣的作為"},{"start":65.44,"end":67.44,"text":"我們掌握到什麼樣的一個原因"},{"start":67.44,"end":70.44,"text":"那目前交涉情形是如何"},{"start":70.44,"end":73.44,"text":"除了檢視我們天然氣採購之外"},{"start":73.44,"end":77.44,"text":"會不會考慮要暫停我們國會在八牛進行的相關計畫"},{"start":77.44,"end":80.44,"text":"這部分是不是請部長說明一下"},{"start":80.44,"end":85.44,"text":"包外委員這個事情當然其實在我當外交部長"},{"start":85.44,"end":89.44,"text":"我們就有接到就是八牛"},{"start":89.44,"end":94.44,"text":"想要就是關閉我們代表處"},{"start":94.44,"end":98.44,"text":"那中間也經過所謂要求改名"},{"start":98.44,"end":101.44,"text":"那我們也持續交涉中"},{"start":101.44,"end":104.44,"text":"所以他們就內閣有做出一個決定"},{"start":104.44,"end":111.44,"text":"就是會以兩年的時間來進行對台灣跟八牛關係的檢討"},{"start":111.44,"end":113.44,"text":"這是內閣會議的決議"},{"start":113.44,"end":115.44,"text":"那還在檢討中"},{"start":115.44,"end":117.44,"text":"那這個過程當然我們做過很多的努力"},{"start":117.44,"end":121.44,"text":"當然也讓八牛知道我們是對他們天然氣的採購大國"},{"start":121.44,"end":127.44,"text":"另外這個期間因為先前有在中國在這個包括"},{"start":127.44,"end":131.44,"text":"這個所謂群島簽訂所謂的安全協定的這些"},{"start":131.44,"end":134.44,"text":"實際上是派軍方的人進駐"},{"start":134.44,"end":137.44,"text":"假安全之名在進行軍事的擴張"},{"start":137.44,"end":139.44,"text":"那也引起周邊國家大家的關注"},{"start":139.44,"end":141.44,"text":"包括澳洲"},{"start":141.44,"end":145.44,"text":"那這個時候我們當然一起跟這些友盟"},{"start":145.44,"end":147.44,"text":"就持續在協調"},{"start":147.44,"end":149.44,"text":"包括我們參加太平洋島國論壇"},{"start":149.44,"end":152.44,"text":"去年就是這些所謂的發展夥伴"},{"start":152.44,"end":157.44,"text":"都被這個沒有邀請"},{"start":157.44,"end":159.44,"text":"那這個情勢就是說"},{"start":159.44,"end":161.44,"text":"在八牛方面是這個外交部長"},{"start":161.44,"end":163.44,"text":"做我們的了解"},{"start":163.44,"end":165.44,"text":"他個人以突擊的方式"},{"start":165.44,"end":169.44,"text":"雖然這個是有一個不斷在交涉中"},{"start":169.44,"end":171.44,"text":"那他個人的利益"},{"start":171.44,"end":173.44,"text":"這事實上我們的了解他們內閣"},{"start":173.44,"end":177.44,"text":"其實他們專業的外交官是有不同的意見"},{"start":177.44,"end":182.44,"text":"那這些周邊的友盟也都表達持續的在表達關切"},{"start":182.44,"end":184.44,"text":"那所以這個事情我們當然第一時間"},{"start":184.44,"end":186.44,"text":"就是我們就進行交涉"},{"start":186.44,"end":189.44,"text":"那也跟友盟來進行溝通"},{"start":189.44,"end":191.44,"text":"尋求他們的聲援"},{"start":191.44,"end":194.44,"text":"美國的國務院也公開的表達"},{"start":194.44,"end":196.44,"text":"對這個事情的關切"},{"start":196.44,"end":198.44,"text":"也認為這個事對於就是說台灣"},{"start":198.44,"end":202.44,"text":"就是跟這全球夥伴"},{"start":202.44,"end":206.44,"text":"這個發展關係的再一次的這一種"},{"start":206.44,"end":211.44,"text":"就是破壞的行為的力證"},{"start":211.44,"end":214.44,"text":"那我們爭取時間持續交涉"},{"start":214.44,"end":219.44,"text":"那當然也在檢討跟八紐的各方的關係"},{"start":219.44,"end":221.44,"text":"那我們希望有一段時間"},{"start":221.44,"end":225.44,"text":"可以讓這個事情進一步"},{"start":225.44,"end":229.44,"text":"有一些可以轉環的空間"},{"start":229.44,"end":233.44,"text":"好 那除了這個八紐的案例以外"},{"start":233.44,"end":235.44,"text":"我們有沒有注意到接下來"},{"start":235.44,"end":237.44,"text":"中共會不會持續在南太平洋"},{"start":237.44,"end":239.44,"text":"尋求相關的突破"},{"start":239.44,"end":242.44,"text":"透過這個個別國家進行施壓"},{"start":242.44,"end":245.44,"text":"那要求他們要重申一中原則"},{"start":245.44,"end":252.44,"text":"並且向相關的國家來進行不同的突破"},{"start":252.44,"end":257.44,"text":"那我們了解中國一向在南太平洋的擴張企圖"},{"start":257.44,"end":259.44,"text":"剛剛部長您在報告當中"},{"start":259.44,"end":261.44,"text":"也有大概說明了一下"},{"start":261.44,"end":264.44,"text":"那八紐宣布關閉我們外館前一天"},{"start":264.44,"end":269.44,"text":"中國也跟所羅門群島的外長進行會談"},{"start":269.44,"end":275.44,"text":"那中方也承諾要推動中所新時代全面戰略夥伴關係"},{"start":275.44,"end":277.44,"text":"但是我們從六月份的這個資料來看"},{"start":277.44,"end":279.44,"text":"所羅門新任的總理要求"},{"start":279.44,"end":282.44,"text":"重新審視對中國的這個密約"},{"start":282.44,"end":285.44,"text":"也在倡議向太平洋區域安全條例"},{"start":285.44,"end":288.44,"text":"要排除中國介入"},{"start":288.44,"end":293.44,"text":"甚至近期還將允諾美國這個海巡隊能夠巡邏"},{"start":293.44,"end":296.44,"text":"顯示中美澳仍然在這個南太平洋"},{"start":296.44,"end":298.44,"text":"戰略上的一個競爭關係"},{"start":298.44,"end":301.44,"text":"那就這部分部長您觀察評估"},{"start":301.44,"end":305.44,"text":"太平洋島國對中國的立場政策有沒有什麼樣的轉變"},{"start":305.44,"end":309.44,"text":"那中國是否還會有這種類似的模式"},{"start":309.44,"end":312.44,"text":"單點突破甚至影響整個區域的可能"},{"start":312.44,"end":317.44,"text":"其實中國的模式就是透過所謂的精英服務"},{"start":317.44,"end":320.44,"text":"針對少數的領導人的控制"},{"start":320.44,"end":324.44,"text":"給他利益或者是包括造成國家債務"},{"start":324.44,"end":329.44,"text":"去控制這些島國"},{"start":329.44,"end":334.44,"text":"過去我們比較相對來講我們是孤軍奮戰"},{"start":334.44,"end":336.44,"text":"最近是我想國際裡我們都看到"},{"start":336.44,"end":340.44,"text":"中國這些擴張的行為不是只有針對台灣"},{"start":340.44,"end":342.44,"text":"比如說他這個潛射導彈"},{"start":342.44,"end":346.44,"text":"在打到西太平洋跟南太平洋"},{"start":346.44,"end":348.44,"text":"他的這個航母軍艦"},{"start":348.44,"end":352.44,"text":"其實是都在這些附近的海域出入"},{"start":352.44,"end":356.44,"text":"另外就是透過這些投資事實上"},{"start":356.44,"end":358.44,"text":"在控制他們的關鍵基礎設施"},{"start":358.44,"end":361.44,"text":"包括港口跟這些所謂的關鍵的礦物"},{"start":361.44,"end":366.44,"text":"所以這個已經威脅到以規則為基礎的國際秩序"},{"start":366.44,"end":369.44,"text":"特別是太平洋是強調一個包容性"},{"start":369.44,"end":371.44,"text":"而且中共不斷的製造分裂"},{"start":371.44,"end":373.44,"text":"比如說去年的太平洋島國論壇"},{"start":373.44,"end":376.44,"text":"中國就自己先邀請了一些國家的外交部長"},{"start":376.44,"end":379.44,"text":"企圖先去主導這個PIF"},{"start":379.44,"end":381.44,"text":"就是太平洋島國論壇的召開"},{"start":381.44,"end":385.44,"text":"就是把包括台灣、美國、日本都排除在"},{"start":385.44,"end":389.44,"text":"太平洋島國的這個夥伴會議之外"},{"start":389.44,"end":393.44,"text":"所以當這個中共侵入的時候就控制了這個國家"},{"start":393.44,"end":396.44,"text":"所以包括像我剛講的安全協定"},{"start":396.44,"end":401.44,"text":"他在這個所謂群島這個作為就引起了"},{"start":401.44,"end":404.44,"text":"當然包括美澳等國家對於八牛"},{"start":404.44,"end":407.44,"text":"當時中國也要跟他簽訂類似的安全協定"},{"start":407.44,"end":410.44,"text":"所以這些國家就積極的來跟這些國家往來"},{"start":410.44,"end":416.44,"text":"包括最近在跨的就是在四國在斐濟"},{"start":416.44,"end":417.44,"text":"要建造港口"},{"start":417.44,"end":421.44,"text":"以及在帛琉他國家醫院要簽件"},{"start":421.44,"end":423.44,"text":"也都尋求跨國的支持"},{"start":423.44,"end":425.44,"text":"那台灣也有參與期間"},{"start":425.44,"end":428.44,"text":"這個所以我們用這種小多邊的方式"},{"start":428.44,"end":435.44,"text":"共同來維護這個所謂的和平的這個太平洋"},{"start":435.44,"end":437.44,"text":"這個所謂的藍色的太平洋"},{"start":437.44,"end":441.44,"text":"這樣一個包容性的一個區域的一個資訊"},{"start":441.44,"end":445.44,"text":"好那接下來八月底剛剛部長您也提到了"},{"start":445.44,"end":453.44,"text":"我們的友邦帛琉將主辦今年的這個PIF的這個論壇峰會"},{"start":453.44,"end":456.44,"text":"那這部分我們想進一步了解就是"},{"start":456.44,"end":458.44,"text":"這是一個很好的機會"},{"start":458.44,"end":461.44,"text":"也是我們台灣跟其他友盟國家"},{"start":461.44,"end":468.44,"text":"可以在這個國際場合這個參與合作的一個很好的機會"},{"start":468.44,"end":473.44,"text":"那這部分我想請教部長對於參與今年的這個PIF的規劃"},{"start":473.44,"end":475.44,"text":"我們目前情況是如何"},{"start":475.44,"end":483.44,"text":"那未來有沒有可能有更大的一個參與太平洋地區的機會"},{"start":483.44,"end":486.44,"text":"是我們對今年PIF在帛琉召開"},{"start":486.44,"end":488.44,"text":"因為是我們的邦交國"},{"start":488.44,"end":491.44,"text":"所以我們以發展夥伴身份參與"},{"start":491.44,"end":495.44,"text":"那也在辦一個展就是龍邦的這個特展"},{"start":495.44,"end":499.44,"text":"那不只台灣包括像美國日本澳洲"},{"start":499.44,"end":504.44,"text":"他們在太平洋所做的這個這些對於太平洋發展有利的這些"},{"start":504.44,"end":509.44,"text":"不管是援助投資或是各項的合作"},{"start":509.44,"end":511.44,"text":"我們用這種正向的方式來呈現"},{"start":511.44,"end":513.44,"text":"那台灣can help"},{"start":513.44,"end":516.44,"text":"那這個是這個當然這個模式我們希望"},{"start":516.44,"end":521.44,"text":"因為明年是在紐西蘭能夠持續持續下去以正向的方式"},{"start":521.44,"end":523.44,"text":"那有一些共同的倡議"},{"start":523.44,"end":528.44,"text":"我想包括我剛提到的這個斐濟或是帛琉的例子"},{"start":528.44,"end":533.44,"text":"包括在土發路這個海覽的延伸還有其他的地方我們的技術團"},{"start":533.44,"end":537.44,"text":"所以我們的醫療教育還有包括桂林能源"},{"start":537.44,"end":541.44,"text":"所以這一次用這個所謂龍邦特展的方式來呈現"},{"start":541.44,"end":545.44,"text":"另外我們也會透過各種雙邊的會議來進行"},{"start":545.44,"end":551.44,"text":"這個是POOF對我們來講是在參與太平洋事務是可以說最重要的國際組織"},{"start":551.44,"end":555.44,"text":"那這一次的峰會有沒有可能會是部長您率團參與"},{"start":555.44,"end":559.44,"text":"因為這時候涉及到一些我們跟中共在這方面"},{"start":559.44,"end":563.44,"text":"因為他是緊迫盯人已經在施壓"},{"start":563.44,"end":567.44,"text":"所以我們的安排我們就目前就沒有對外說明"},{"start":567.44,"end":571.44,"text":"等到這個大會期間自然就會呈現"},{"start":571.44,"end":572.44,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":572.44,"end":573.44,"text":"謝謝部長以上"},{"start":573.44,"end":574.44,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}