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Kacaw等16人擬具「能源管理法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）\t本院委員楊瓊瓔等23人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）\t本院委員陳亭妃等20人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）\t本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。（詢答）\n（第十三案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查。））","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"龔部長明鑫","start":0.21659375000000003,"end":1.0265937500000002,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":1.0265937500000002,"end":1.7690937500000001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":7.35471875,"end":11.539718750000002,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":12.484718750000003,"end":12.61971875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"龔部長明鑫","start":17.19284375,"end":17.98596875,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":18.40784375,"end":41.96534375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"龔部長明鑫","start":35.65409375,"end":35.78909375,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"龔部長明鑫","start":35.87346875,"end":36.04221875,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":42.37034375,"end":59.16096875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"龔部長明鑫","start":58.55346875,"end":58.87409375,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":59.329718750000005,"end":60.20721875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":60.494093750000005,"end":64.02096875000001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":64.47659375,"end":65.21909375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":65.67471875000001,"end":68.40846875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":69.35346875,"end":72.32346875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":73.30221875000001,"end":74.33159375000001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":74.60159375,"end":79.25909375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":79.86659375,"end":80.54159375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":81.65534375,"end":90.91971875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":91.29096875,"end":109.58346875000001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"龔部長明鑫","start":109.78596875000001,"end":110.15721875000001,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":110.39346875000001,"end":117.66659375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":117.88596875,"end":122.69534375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":123.16784375,"end":124.12971875000001,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":125.54721875000001,"end":132.49971875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":132.85409375,"end":136.33034375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":136.78596875,"end":142.10159375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"龔部長明鑫","start":141.42659375,"end":142.01721875,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"龔部長明鑫","start":142.10159375,"end":144.00846875000002,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"龔部長明鑫","start":144.56534375,"end":147.77159375000002,"speaker_score":0.979},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":147.72096875,"end":148.00784375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":148.44659375,"end":156.20909375000002,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":156.44534375,"end":159.01034375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":159.19596875000002,"end":168.05534375000002,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":168.73034375,"end":175.56471875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":176.42534375000002,"end":179.61471875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":180.07034375,"end":182.73659375000003,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":183.34409375,"end":186.56721875000002,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":187.74846875,"end":190.31346875,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":190.76909375000002,"end":193.85721875000002,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":194.27909375000002,"end":197.45159375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":197.87346875,"end":203.76284375,"speaker_score":0.989},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speak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end":492.68,"text":"目前所有全國"},{"start":492.68,"end":494.96,"text":"它的經濟企業"},{"start":494.96,"end":497.36,"text":"工業樣態的形式"},{"start":497.36,"end":498.68,"text":"你要怎麼定"},{"start":498.68,"end":500.24,"text":"要怎麼處理"},{"start":500.24,"end":502.48,"text":"我相信你就會比較有"},{"start":502.48,"end":503.71999999999997,"text":"那個邏輯"},{"start":503.71999999999997,"end":504.59999999999997,"text":"好所以"},{"start":504.59999999999997,"end":505.76,"text":"部長再拜託"},{"start":505.76,"end":506.52,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":506.52,"end":508.24,"text":"我剛剛提到的可能"},{"start":508.24,"end":509.24,"text":"那個"},{"start":509.24,"end":510.40000000000003,"text":"主席站起來了"},{"start":510.40000000000003,"end":512.5600000000001,"text":"我再拜託我們的署長"},{"start":512.5600000000001,"end":513.8,"text":"我剛剛問的"},{"start":513.8,"end":516,"text":"你再拜託一個書面給我們"},{"start":516,"end":517,"text":"好的"},{"start":517,"end":518,"text":"書面給我們"},{"start":518,"end":520,"text":"讓我們很清楚知道"},{"start":520,"end":521.8,"text":"起碼地方"},{"start":521.8,"end":524,"text":"這些工業或是企業"},{"start":524,"end":525.64,"text":"在問我們的時候"},{"start":525.64,"end":527.92,"text":"我們知道怎麼回答"},{"start":527.92,"end":529.32,"text":"怎麼來協助他們"},{"start":529.32,"end":531.92,"text":"至少樣態來講有新舊"},{"start":531.92,"end":533.12,"text":"然後還有都市"},{"start":533.12,"end":533.96,"text":"還有這個"},{"start":533.96,"end":535.48,"text":"傳統"},{"start":535.48,"end":536.24,"text":"有不一樣"},{"start":536.24,"end":537.8,"text":"那我們會不同的樣態"},{"start":537.8399999999999,"end":539.8399999999999,"text":"可能要求會有一點點差異"},{"start":539.8399999999999,"end":541.4399999999999,"text":"對而且因為"},{"start":541.4399999999999,"end":542.88,"text":"舊的工業區"},{"start":542.88,"end":544.1999999999999,"text":"他當時候"},{"start":544.1999999999999,"end":546.1999999999999,"text":"所設置的條件"},{"start":546.1999999999999,"end":547.52,"text":"跟現在設的條件"},{"start":547.52,"end":548.68,"text":"就是不一樣"},{"start":548.68,"end":550.64,"text":"好所以這個部分可能"},{"start":550.64,"end":551.8,"text":"我們要怎麼加強"},{"start":551.8,"end":552.92,"text":"一定要加強"},{"start":552.92,"end":555.52,"text":"可是怎麼樣來協助他們"},{"start":555.52,"end":557.88,"text":"達到我們要的方向"},{"start":557.88,"end":559.5999999999999,"text":"而且是他們能夠"},{"start":559.5999999999999,"end":560.76,"text":"無縫接軌"},{"start":560.76,"end":563.3199999999999,"text":"而且有好的一個接軌形式"},{"start":563.3199999999999,"end":564.4799999999999,"text":"這才是最重要"},{"start":564.4799999999999,"end":565.5999999999999,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":565.5999999999999,"end":566.4,"text":"好"},{"start":566.4,"end":566.8,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":566.8,"end":567.8,"text":"謝謝市立委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2026-07-22T09:22:20.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:22:21.145455+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2026-07-22T09:22:21.990909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:22:23.118182+08:00","text":"請經濟部部長。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T09:22:23.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:22:24.480000+08:00","text":"請經濟部龔部長。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-07-22T09:22:30.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:22:31.160000+08:00","text":"陳委員早安。早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2026-07-22T09:22:31.936471+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:23:12.795000+08:00","text":"這一次能源管理法的修法，包括本席都有提案，主要是針對能源供應事業如何公開能源銷售統計資料、能源用戶應設置自用發電及儲能設備、強化地方政府執行節能與用能管理的稽查量能，還有擴大經公告指定特定能源產品的管理授權範圍，然後是加重違反能管法的處罰及檢討相關違法態樣，大概就是這幾個重點。是的。","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2026-07-22T09:23:14.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:23:50.652308+08:00","text":"如果今天修正草案通過，我們最擔心的是子法的訂定，其實重點是在子法的訂定，我剛剛念的都是大範圍，也就是這一次修法的重點，可是現在大家所擔心的是子法部分，到底要怎麼訂定所謂用電大戶定義以及一定容量、一定期限，還有一定裝置容量的樣態？","quality":0.876},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2026-07-22T09:23:50.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:24:06.949333+08:00","text":"還有如何設置自用發電設備與儲能設備的種類、設置方式，甚至是其他相關事項的辦法，這些都要在子法裡訂定……是的。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2026-07-22T09:24:07.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:24:18.075294+08:00","text":"可是在這些子法還沒有方向之前，就會讓這些受影響的企業感到恐慌跟擔憂。","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2026-07-22T09:24:18.992727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:24:20.883636+08:00","text":"為什麼大家會很擔心？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2026-07-22T09:24:23.646667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:24:34.903636+08:00","text":"剛剛我聽到部長所說的是方向還沒有很確定，可能還要了解一個基本概念、基礎的條件……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-07-22T09:24:35.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:24:40.280000+08:00","text":"跟能源管理法相關……就是利害關係人。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2026-07-22T09:24:40.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:24:52.105455+08:00","text":"對，所以這才是大家所擔憂的，也就是能源管理法修正通過之後，他們會面臨什麼樣的衝擊？","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2026-07-22T09:24:53.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:25:12.897143+08:00","text":"他們是不是要變成經濟部所定義的用電大戶、他們是不是要設置自用發電設備還有儲能設備，這些會讓他們擔憂跟擔心。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2026-07-22T09:25:13.16000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d":"2026-07-22T09:31:43.895238+08:00","text":"謝謝陳亭妃委員，部長先回座。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T09:31:44.195238+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:31:47.338095+08:00","text":"下一位質詢請鄭正鈐委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1187,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時22分）謝謝主席。請經濟部部長。"],["主席：請經濟部龔部長。"],["龔部長明鑫：陳委員早安。"],["陳委員亭妃：早。這一次能源管理法的修法，包括本席都有提案，主要是針對能源供應事業如何公開能源銷售統計資料、能源用戶應設置自用發電及儲能設備、強化地方政府執行節能與用能管理的稽查量能，還有擴大經公告指定特定能源產品的管理授權範圍，然後是加重違反能管法的處罰及檢討相關違法態樣，大概就是這幾個重點。"],["龔部長明鑫：是的。"],["陳委員亭妃：如果今天修正草案通過，我們最擔心的是子法的訂定，其實重點是在子法的訂定，我剛剛念的都是大範圍，也就是這一次修法的重點，可是現在大家所擔心的是子法部分，到底要怎麼訂定所謂用電大戶定義以及一定容量、一定期限，還有一定裝置容量的樣態？還有如何設置自用發電設備與儲能設備的種類、設置方式，甚至是其他相關事項的辦法，這些都要在子法裡訂定……"],["龔部長明鑫：是的。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是在這些子法還沒有方向之前，就會讓這些受影響的企業感到恐慌跟擔憂。為什麼大家會很擔心？剛剛我聽到部長所說的是方向還沒有很確定，可能還要了解一個基本概念、基礎的條件……"],["龔部長明鑫：跟能源管理法相關……就是利害關係人。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，所以這才是大家所擔憂的，也就是能源管理法修正通過之後，他們會面臨什麼樣的衝擊？他們是不是要變成經濟部所定義的用電大戶、他們是不是要設置自用發電設備還有儲能設備，這些會讓他們擔憂跟擔心。如果我們今天一個法的修正原本是正面的，我們是要讓企業更加有方向、讓企業更加有依據，像這裡面有一個重點就是，要強化地方政府執行節能與用能管理的稽查量能，這個要怎麼跟地方政府有相對應的辦法跟稽查條件，這也是關鍵。"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：這也是子法裡面要定的，不是現在通過了之後，地方政府各吹各的調，不是啊！一定要有一個標準。所以這個部分當今天如果這個修法過了，請問子法什麼時候要推出來？而且部長不要忘了，都市型廠房與老舊工業區的實體空間不足，你們怎麼協助廠商設置這些相關的儲能發電設備，你還要考慮到這一點。當然我必須說，這個是整個能源管理法未來的修法趨勢，可是當我們在未來趨勢與現在要做接軌的時候，一定要有很多的磨合期，這些磨合期請問你們要訂定多久、誰要來協助、要如何來幫忙，這些都是重點，部長，你們已經思考到這個層面了嗎？修法很簡單，過與不過，可是修法之後，當你的子法沒訂，你的執行面要怎麼樣來把這個磨合期、把這樣的擔憂跟恐慌縮得越小？部長，如果沒有，署長來講也OK。"],["龔部長明鑫：原則上，我講原則，等一下署長會做補充說明。我們方向上一定還是用電大戶，5MW以上的大概現在有七百多家，我們是期待他可以在表後自己有一些節電或者是用電、發電的能量及能力，但是我們一定會顧及廠商的現實狀況、他能不能做到，如果他沒有辦法做到的話，你強迫他這樣是不對的。"],["陳委員亭妃：是啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：所以我們一定在子法裡面為什麼要經過談好或怎麼樣的情況之下讓他們可以做到，方向上是這樣，而且還會有您剛剛提到的，可能有過渡階段或一定期間，讓他可以真的去磨合……"],["陳委員亭妃：這個期間多久？這都很重要。"],["龔部長明鑫：過去通常是5年，但是我們現在還是要跟大家談他的困難度怎麼樣，如果是5年的話，是不是可以做到或是怎麼樣。"],["陳委員亭妃：因為整個樣態都不一樣。就我講的，都市型與傳統型是完全不同的，新型工業區與舊工業區的條件也不一樣。"],["龔部長明鑫：了解。所以對於新開發的部分，我們可能要求會稍微嚴格一點；已經存在的部分是不是可以用怎麼樣的形式要求沒有那麼嚴格，因為他既有的廠房已經在那邊了，他沒有多的地方，那他怎麼樣去處理，這個我們可能要共同討論。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，我為什麼提到這個問題？因為這個是企業發展一定要，能源管理法的修法是不得不、一定要面對的，可是我們必須對於目前的樣態也要做一些所謂的……什麼樣的要進行到什麼程度、第二樣態的進行到什麼程度，一定要有這些資料，因為臺南市是工業區最多的，歷屆的經濟部部長，我每次邀請他到臺南，大概都嚇一跳，工業區的樣態非常多，因為我們是傳統跟高科技兩個相互接應的城市發展，在整個經濟面的部分是這個樣子。所以我要先拜託部長，你其實只要抓臺南市整個工業區的樣態，你大概就可以知道目前全國所有的經濟、企業、工業樣態的形式，你要怎麼訂、要怎麼處理，我相信你就會比較有邏輯。"],["龔部長明鑫：謝謝。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以部長再拜託，我也拜託署長，我剛剛問的再拜託一個書面給我們。"],["龔部長明鑫：好的。"],["陳委員亭妃：書面給我們，讓我們很清楚知道，起碼地方這些工業或是企業在問我們的時候，我們知道怎麼回答、怎麼來協助他們。"],["龔部長明鑫：至少樣態來講有新、舊，還有都市工業區、傳統工業區有不一樣，我們對不同的樣態可能要求會有一點點差異。"],["陳委員亭妃：對。而且因為舊的工業區它當時候所設置的條件跟現在設的條件就是不一樣，所以這個部分可能我們要加強就一定要加強，可是怎麼協助他們達到我們要的方向，而且是他們能夠無縫接軌、有好的一個接軌形式，這才是最重要。"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，謝謝。"],["龔部長明鑫：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳亭妃委員，部長先回座。","下一位質詢請鄭正鈐委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":360,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-19-22","speakers":["邱志偉","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","洪毓祥","呂玉玲","陳超明","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","謝衣鳯","傅崐萁","蔡易餘","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2026-07-22"],"gazette_id":"1156601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156601_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續審查：(一)本院委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)本院\n委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「能源管理法第七條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員蔡其昌等19人擬具\n「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員鍾佳濱等20人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修\n正草案」案、(五)本院委員邱議瑩等17人擬具「能源管理法增訂第十九條之二及第二十七條之一\n條文草案」案；二、審查：(六)行政院函請審議「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)本院\n委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員郭國文等\n16人擬具「能源管理法增訂第十九條之二及第二十七條之一條文草案」案、(九)本院委員徐欣瑩\n等16人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案、(十)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具\n「能源管理法第二條條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員楊瓊瓔等23人擬具「能源管理法部分條\n文修正草案」案、(十二)本院委員陳亭妃等20人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案、 (十\n三)本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156601_00016"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}