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遊行法務部黃次長 還有司法院許廳長"},{"start":8.74,"end":10.56,"text":"好 請次長跟廳長"},{"start":11.14,"end":11.94,"text":"委員好"},{"start":11.94,"end":14.5,"text":"好 次長 我之前"},{"start":14.5,"end":17.2,"text":"質詢台南監獄這事情"},{"start":17.2,"end":19.2,"text":"那因為引起很大的迴響"},{"start":19.2,"end":23.34,"text":"在全國監獄的管理員也都向我做一些懲情"},{"start":23.34,"end":26.400000000000002,"text":"部長有答應我說兩週內要給我書面"},{"start":26.400000000000002,"end":29.2,"text":"書面報告 現在已經到期了"},{"start":29.3,"end":31.3,"text":"那我知道我還沒有看到"},{"start":31.3,"end":33.3,"text":"但是我要再催促一下"},{"start":33.3,"end":36.3,"text":"因為部長的承諾我想是一定要執行"},{"start":36.3,"end":38.3,"text":"但是我也是謝謝說"},{"start":38.3,"end":42.1,"text":"小政署 小政署親自前幾天也帶了大概六七位同事"},{"start":42.1,"end":45,"text":"盡量跟我說明他們整個的管理情形"},{"start":45,"end":47,"text":"我也了解他們的辛勞跟努力"},{"start":47,"end":50,"text":"但是我也要說明說我們在質詢的時候"},{"start":50,"end":51.7,"text":"其實並不是要對立"},{"start":51.7,"end":53.5,"text":"就是大家各司其職"},{"start":53.5,"end":54.5,"text":"就是行政院做事"},{"start":54.5,"end":57.4,"text":"那我們來做一個監督跟催促"},{"start":57.5,"end":60.5,"text":"那大家都是為了這個國家跟人民好"},{"start":60.5,"end":63.5,"text":"所以這個書面報告也請不要漏掉"},{"start":63.5,"end":65.5,"text":"好 那我現在就先請教許廳長"},{"start":65.5,"end":67.5,"text":"7月18號下午一點鐘"},{"start":67.5,"end":69.5,"text":"一名法官被發現倒臥在"},{"start":69.5,"end":72.5,"text":"台中司法大廈的這個宿舍區的地面"},{"start":72.5,"end":74,"text":"疑似在台中地院"},{"start":74,"end":76.5,"text":"他為了這個在宿舍區架梯修樹"},{"start":76.5,"end":80.5,"text":"這個可能因為大雨造成樓梯很這個失法"},{"start":80.5,"end":81.5,"text":"屍足墜落"},{"start":81.5,"end":83.5,"text":"然後不幸當場死亡"},{"start":83.5,"end":85.5,"text":"目前已經報警檢察官來相驗"},{"start":85.5,"end":86.5,"text":"釐清死因"},{"start":86.6,"end":87.6,"text":"我看到這個新聞非常難過"},{"start":87.6,"end":89.6,"text":"我想每一個人都是一樣的"},{"start":89.6,"end":92.6,"text":"那我現在請問許廳長跟次長"},{"start":92.6,"end":95.6,"text":"事情發生在法務法院的宿舍"},{"start":95.6,"end":98.6,"text":"但法警就是法務部來所主管"},{"start":98.6,"end":102.6,"text":"我想請問修檢宿舍的宿"},{"start":102.6,"end":104.6,"text":"是法警的工作嗎"},{"start":106.6,"end":107.6,"text":"是嗎"},{"start":107.6,"end":110.6,"text":"首先感謝委員關切司法院所屬法院"},{"start":110.6,"end":112.6,"text":"這個同仁的這個健康與安全"},{"start":112.6,"end":114.6,"text":"那表示表達謝意"},{"start":114.69999999999999,"end":116.69999999999999,"text":"那這個關於這件事情"},{"start":116.69999999999999,"end":119.69999999999999,"text":"大家聽聞之後深感遺憾"},{"start":119.69999999999999,"end":121.69999999999999,"text":"那台中地院也對於這個家屬"},{"start":121.69999999999999,"end":123.69999999999999,"text":"以及這個事件進行必要的處理"},{"start":123.69999999999999,"end":125.69999999999999,"text":"不好意思因為今天的質詢時間比較短"},{"start":125.69999999999999,"end":127.69999999999999,"text":"次長這個是他的工作嗎"},{"start":127.69999999999999,"end":131.7,"text":"這個這個部分因為據目前"},{"start":131.7,"end":133.7,"text":"法警負責修樹嗎"},{"start":133.7,"end":135.7,"text":"他這個修檢樹枝是在宿舍區"},{"start":135.7,"end":137.7,"text":"那他本身居住於宿舍區"},{"start":137.7,"end":139.7,"text":"那這個修檢樹枝"},{"start":139.7,"end":142.7,"text":"目前的了解他並非因公指派"},{"start":142.79999999999998,"end":144.79999999999998,"text":"進行樹枝的修剪"},{"start":144.79999999999998,"end":146.79999999999998,"text":"你的意思是說他是主動去做這樣的工作"},{"start":146.79999999999998,"end":148.79999999999998,"text":"是嗎"},{"start":148.79999999999998,"end":150.79999999999998,"text":"應該是說目前了解的狀況"},{"start":150.79999999999998,"end":152.79999999999998,"text":"他並不是因為依照法院的指示"},{"start":152.79999999999998,"end":154.79999999999998,"text":"來做修檢樹枝的工作"},{"start":154.79999999999998,"end":156.79999999999998,"text":"因為他可能不是他的本質不是這樣"},{"start":156.79999999999998,"end":158.79999999999998,"text":"他只是在宿舍區"},{"start":158.79999999999998,"end":160.79999999999998,"text":"那但是次長我還是要說"},{"start":160.79999999999998,"end":162.79999999999998,"text":"還有聽長司法院平常"},{"start":162.79999999999998,"end":164.79999999999998,"text":"是不是應該就把環境維護好"},{"start":164.79999999999998,"end":166.79999999999998,"text":"第二個即便是要協助修樹的工作"},{"start":166.79999999999998,"end":168.79999999999998,"text":"無論這是本來是這個"},{"start":168.79999999999998,"end":170.79999999999998,"text":"公有的同仁或外包廠商"},{"start":170.9,"end":172.9,"text":"也要避免在大雨天工作"},{"start":172.9,"end":174.9,"text":"那你最好梯子還有人幫忙這個扶持"},{"start":174.9,"end":176.9,"text":"我想聽長你認同我這個說法嗎"},{"start":176.9,"end":178.9,"text":"我覺得所有公務員的這個扶持"},{"start":178.9,"end":180.9,"text":"都是司法院的這個最關切的事情"},{"start":180.9,"end":182.9,"text":"那這個部分呢"},{"start":182.9,"end":184.9,"text":"我們會加強這個"},{"start":184.9,"end":186.9,"text":"他就是在下大雨當中"},{"start":186.9,"end":188.9,"text":"滑下來的"},{"start":188.9,"end":190.9,"text":"但是他其實並不是因為"},{"start":190.9,"end":192.9,"text":"他不是因為對他主動"},{"start":192.9,"end":194.9,"text":"即便如此就是環境沒有弄好"},{"start":194.9,"end":196.9,"text":"就是有人需要去做這個工作"},{"start":196.9,"end":198.9,"text":"也許本來是別人的工作"},{"start":199,"end":201,"text":"也許本來是別人的工作"},{"start":201,"end":203,"text":"就是外包廠商或是這個"},{"start":203,"end":205,"text":"其他的公有同仁"},{"start":205,"end":207,"text":"那基本上我的意思是說"},{"start":207,"end":209,"text":"你就是要做一些處理"},{"start":209,"end":211,"text":"所以我希望說第一個相關的"},{"start":211,"end":213,"text":"補序一定要完善"},{"start":213,"end":215,"text":"我確認一下這個補序是司法院還是法務部"},{"start":215,"end":217,"text":"這個有關"},{"start":217,"end":219,"text":"他這個造成這個死亡的結果"},{"start":219,"end":221,"text":"如果是因公補序的"},{"start":221,"end":223,"text":"要符合因公的要件"},{"start":223,"end":225,"text":"那他的這個"},{"start":225,"end":227,"text":"得到的補序當然優於其他的室友"},{"start":227.1,"end":229.1,"text":"不過他到底是不是因公"},{"start":229.1,"end":231.1,"text":"那這仍然要全序部來依照這個事實"},{"start":231.1,"end":233.1,"text":"這個你一定要從國安法解釋"},{"start":233.1,"end":235.1,"text":"他就是下雨天去幫忙修宿嘛"},{"start":235.1,"end":237.1,"text":"那將來如何避免"},{"start":237.1,"end":239.1,"text":"我想說請司法院是不是一周給我回覆一下"},{"start":239.1,"end":241.1,"text":"因為為什麼發生這樣的事情"},{"start":241.1,"end":243.1,"text":"我們不能讓它再發生了好嗎"},{"start":243.1,"end":245.1,"text":"那市長請回座"},{"start":245.1,"end":247.1,"text":"我上個月質詢過這個問題"},{"start":247.1,"end":249.1,"text":"台灣2023年就全面禁止電子煙"},{"start":249.1,"end":251.1,"text":"但是我只要輸入"},{"start":251.1,"end":253.1,"text":"電子煙商店這幾個關鍵字"},{"start":253.1,"end":255.1,"text":"還是可以看到這個網路上"},{"start":255.2,"end":257.2,"text":"有大量的販售網站"},{"start":257.2,"end":259.2,"text":"依然可以繼續買"},{"start":259.2,"end":261.2,"text":"那這個部分上次部長說他不是法務部"},{"start":261.2,"end":263.2,"text":"負責的是外服部負責"},{"start":263.2,"end":265.2,"text":"那我尊重法規的分工"},{"start":265.2,"end":267.2,"text":"但是行政院在報告就講"},{"start":267.2,"end":269.2,"text":"要跨部會合作要完善多元"},{"start":269.2,"end":271.2,"text":"毒品的防治網絡"},{"start":271.2,"end":273.2,"text":"那一個月過去了那我想請教"},{"start":273.2,"end":275.2,"text":"是法務部在跨部會合作"},{"start":275.2,"end":277.2,"text":"這個部分有沒有做了哪些"},{"start":277.2,"end":279.2,"text":"具體工作有沒有主動召開跨部會"},{"start":279.2,"end":281.2,"text":"會議有沒有協調外服部、速發部"},{"start":281.2,"end":283.2,"text":"甚至警政署"},{"start":283.3,"end":285.3,"text":"網路販售電子煙平台進行聯合的一個查詢"},{"start":285.3,"end":287.3,"text":"還是說"},{"start":287.3,"end":289.3,"text":"就留在一個書面報告呢"},{"start":289.3,"end":291.3,"text":"各位報告這個當然是屬於"},{"start":291.3,"end":293.3,"text":"煙害防治法所業管的範圍"},{"start":293.3,"end":295.3,"text":"他的確是外服部的主管法規"},{"start":295.3,"end":297.3,"text":"那據我所知行政院已經召開多次會議"},{"start":297.3,"end":299.3,"text":"事實上外服部就這"},{"start":299.3,"end":301.3,"text":"煙害防治法有關於電子煙的部分"},{"start":301.3,"end":303.3,"text":"他這個製造運輸販賣部分"},{"start":303.3,"end":305.3,"text":"他把入刑持有把行政法"},{"start":305.3,"end":307.3,"text":"他都已經提出相關的情況"},{"start":307.3,"end":309.3,"text":"是的我要說的就是說"},{"start":309.3,"end":311.3,"text":"煙害防治我當然知道主責機關是外服部"},{"start":311.40000000000003,"end":313.40000000000003,"text":"我不是問外服部要不要取代"},{"start":313.40000000000003,"end":315.40000000000003,"text":"是法務部要不要取代外服部"},{"start":315.40000000000003,"end":317.40000000000003,"text":"來執法而是今年這個"},{"start":317.40000000000003,"end":319.40000000000003,"text":"一托米紙上次一案最常見的使用"},{"start":319.40000000000003,"end":321.40000000000003,"text":"就是因為電子煙"},{"start":321.40000000000003,"end":323.40000000000003,"text":"他透過電子煙"},{"start":323.40000000000003,"end":325.40000000000003,"text":"電子已經不是單純的煙害問題"},{"start":325.40000000000003,"end":327.40000000000003,"text":"而是一個最新更新圖品"},{"start":327.40000000000003,"end":329.40000000000003,"text":"新新圖品的這個重要適用的"},{"start":329.40000000000003,"end":331.40000000000003,"text":"這個載具那既然你報告也寫"},{"start":331.40000000000003,"end":333.40000000000003,"text":"跨部會合作啊"},{"start":333.40000000000003,"end":335.40000000000003,"text":"那我是想知道在跨部會合作這個部分"},{"start":335.40000000000003,"end":337.40000000000003,"text":"法務部扮演什麼角色"},{"start":337.40000000000003,"end":339.40000000000003,"text":"我到外服當然也問他扮演什麼角色"},{"start":339.5,"end":341.5,"text":"你扮演了什麼角色"},{"start":341.5,"end":343.5,"text":"這個跟委員報告"},{"start":343.5,"end":345.5,"text":"那電子煙本身它就是一個載具"},{"start":345.5,"end":347.5,"text":"我剛才講它裡面裝的是毒品"},{"start":347.5,"end":349.5,"text":"它就違反我們毒品外害防治條例"},{"start":349.5,"end":351.5,"text":"它就是一個犯罪"},{"start":351.5,"end":353.5,"text":"所以我們台高檢它就查氣面"},{"start":353.5,"end":355.5,"text":"它有結合各行政機關各查緝機關"},{"start":355.5,"end":357.5,"text":"謝謝你的說明我的要求"},{"start":357.5,"end":359.5,"text":"跨部會合作因為跨部會不要"},{"start":359.5,"end":361.5,"text":"每個部位都不用做嘛"},{"start":361.5,"end":363.5,"text":"現在就變成這樣不然誰來做呢"},{"start":363.5,"end":365.5,"text":"卓院長嗎"},{"start":365.5,"end":367.5,"text":"那這個一托米紙在6月17號升級為一級毒品"},{"start":367.6,"end":369.6,"text":"我們從新聞上可以看到"},{"start":369.6,"end":371.6,"text":"這一個多月來一托米紙獨家案"},{"start":371.6,"end":373.6,"text":"剛剛也有人在立委在說明"},{"start":373.6,"end":375.6,"text":"一再發生"},{"start":375.6,"end":377.6,"text":"我搜尋上週新聞就有好幾起"},{"start":377.6,"end":379.6,"text":"中部南部台北部中部南部都有"},{"start":379.6,"end":381.6,"text":"可見說"},{"start":381.6,"end":383.6,"text":"升級為一級毒品對這個好像"},{"start":383.6,"end":385.6,"text":"賀主力還是不足的"},{"start":385.6,"end":387.6,"text":"那因為他剛剛我也報告過"},{"start":387.6,"end":389.6,"text":"他結合電子煙這個吸食非常容易"},{"start":389.6,"end":391.6,"text":"開車中隨時來一口"},{"start":391.6,"end":393.6,"text":"他們爽別人遭殃"},{"start":393.6,"end":395.6,"text":"那次長"},{"start":395.70000000000005,"end":397.70000000000005,"text":"法務部不是人才背書嗎"},{"start":397.70000000000005,"end":399.70000000000005,"text":"不是人才很多嗎為什麼"},{"start":399.70000000000005,"end":401.70000000000005,"text":"沒有想出一個方法或政策"},{"start":401.70000000000005,"end":403.70000000000005,"text":"能夠有效的降低這種高風險"},{"start":403.70000000000005,"end":405.70000000000005,"text":"的這個狀況呢"},{"start":405.70000000000005,"end":407.70000000000005,"text":"個人報告這涉及到法治面"},{"start":407.70000000000005,"end":409.70000000000005,"text":"跟查緝面查緝面當然我們"},{"start":409.70000000000005,"end":411.70000000000005,"text":"所有的檢察機關只會檢警掉全列查緝面"},{"start":411.70000000000005,"end":413.70000000000005,"text":"問題那法治面"},{"start":413.70000000000005,"end":415.70000000000005,"text":"跟國研報告有關於這個毒價的部分"},{"start":415.70000000000005,"end":417.70000000000005,"text":"或者是毒品犯罪我們不斷的"},{"start":417.70000000000005,"end":419.70000000000005,"text":"修法過延為拉也有"},{"start":419.70000000000005,"end":421.70000000000005,"text":"那我也要告訴你升級不是壞事"},{"start":421.70000000000005,"end":423.70000000000005,"text":"但是升級是一刀兩刃"},{"start":423.8,"end":425.8,"text":"因為這個藥是屬於在醫院要用的"},{"start":425.8,"end":427.8,"text":"我自己在醫院工作一輩子"},{"start":427.8,"end":429.8,"text":"你知道管道的是醫療人員"},{"start":429.8,"end":431.8,"text":"你知道他們的工作負荷有多重"},{"start":431.8,"end":433.8,"text":"但是這個真正的在外面的這個毒品"},{"start":433.8,"end":435.8,"text":"台灣只有只有台灣"},{"start":435.8,"end":437.8,"text":"把醫療用的東西放為一級毒品"},{"start":437.8,"end":439.8,"text":"但我也不反對"},{"start":439.8,"end":441.8,"text":"只是說一刀但是你在外面在執行的時候"},{"start":441.8,"end":443.8,"text":"原地為了這個管這個不該"},{"start":443.8,"end":445.8,"text":"不當的使用你們要特別努力"},{"start":445.8,"end":447.8,"text":"次長行政院在毒品及防治這個"},{"start":447.8,"end":449.8,"text":"毒價防治當中情報"},{"start":449.8,"end":451.8,"text":"其中把強化查緝作為"},{"start":451.90000000000003,"end":453.90000000000003,"text":"三大組的很重要"},{"start":453.90000000000003,"end":455.90000000000003,"text":"那裡面有特別提到要唾液這個檢驗入法"},{"start":455.90000000000003,"end":457.90000000000003,"text":"加強時效跟量能"},{"start":457.90000000000003,"end":459.90000000000003,"text":"這個都沒有問題"},{"start":459.90000000000003,"end":461.90000000000003,"text":"但是我認為很重要的一點是什麼呢"},{"start":461.90000000000003,"end":463.90000000000003,"text":"要快也要準"},{"start":463.90000000000003,"end":465.90000000000003,"text":"那這幾個方向都是對的"},{"start":465.90000000000003,"end":467.90000000000003,"text":"那因為如果你這個查緝效率很好"},{"start":467.90000000000003,"end":469.90000000000003,"text":"但是不準"},{"start":469.90000000000003,"end":471.90000000000003,"text":"準確性跟這個"},{"start":471.90000000000003,"end":473.90000000000003,"text":"公信力有問題的話"},{"start":473.90000000000003,"end":475.90000000000003,"text":"那不但沒有同步確保這個檢驗的品質"},{"start":475.90000000000003,"end":477.90000000000003,"text":"可能影響人民"},{"start":477.90000000000003,"end":479.90000000000003,"text":"的權益而且影響第一線執法人員"},{"start":480,"end":482,"text":"他的執法的這個信心"},{"start":482,"end":484,"text":"最近有媒體指出"},{"start":484,"end":486,"text":"毒品這個唾液快篩"},{"start":486,"end":488,"text":"疑似出現偽陽性"},{"start":488,"end":490,"text":"因此大家對這個準確性的討論"},{"start":490,"end":492,"text":"我先請教次長您知道什麼叫"},{"start":492,"end":494,"text":"偽陽性嗎為什麼會有偽陽性"},{"start":494,"end":496,"text":"當然因為這個快篩"},{"start":496,"end":498,"text":"的部分他目前他只是做一個"},{"start":498,"end":500,"text":"初篩的工具他沒有像尿液他有"},{"start":500,"end":502,"text":"初篩跟確認的檢驗機制跟"},{"start":502,"end":504,"text":"國家的一個這個標準"},{"start":504,"end":506,"text":"所以目前快篩他就會產生"},{"start":506,"end":508,"text":"次長我跟你說偽陽性"},{"start":508.1,"end":510.1,"text":"偽陽性在醫學界用的非常普遍"},{"start":510.1,"end":512.1,"text":"偽陽性的意思說"},{"start":512.1,"end":514.1,"text":"這個特異性不夠"},{"start":514.1,"end":516.1,"text":"就其他不是依托名詞也會被驗出來"},{"start":516.1,"end":518.1,"text":"這個叫偽陽他不是"},{"start":518.1,"end":520.1,"text":"吸食毒但是其他的化學物"},{"start":520.1,"end":522.1,"text":"也許結構等等他就被驗出來"},{"start":522.1,"end":524.1,"text":"所以我想說第一個這個"},{"start":524.1,"end":526.1,"text":"也要處理在配套當中"},{"start":526.1,"end":528.1,"text":"如果你讓第一線執法人員有一致的依循"},{"start":528.1,"end":530.1,"text":"而且保障人民權益譬如說"},{"start":530.1,"end":532.1,"text":"駕駛人員偽陽性是偽陽性"},{"start":532.1,"end":534.1,"text":"假設最後證明是偽陽性嘛"},{"start":534.1,"end":536.1,"text":"那你當場一致保管確認"},{"start":536.2,"end":538.2,"text":"剛剛也談了很多跟我們立法方向"},{"start":538.2,"end":540.2,"text":"不太一致的地方"},{"start":540.2,"end":542.2,"text":"調扣駕照裁罰"},{"start":542.2,"end":545.2,"text":"如果說後面證明他不是"},{"start":545.2,"end":547.2,"text":"適用毒品而是偽陽性的話"},{"start":547.2,"end":549.2,"text":"那你也配套也要準備好"},{"start":549.2,"end":551.2,"text":"如果說你的保管費補救機制"},{"start":551.2,"end":553.2,"text":"那你誤判無法工作"},{"start":553.2,"end":555.2,"text":"遭受營業損失"},{"start":555.2,"end":557.2,"text":"就是說千萬不要"},{"start":557.2,"end":559.2,"text":"千萬不要讓這個"},{"start":559.2,"end":561.2,"text":"執法在前面配套在後面"},{"start":561.2,"end":563.2,"text":"即便他的偽陽性現在"},{"start":563.2,"end":565.2,"text":"也許是百分之幾"},{"start":565.3000000000001,"end":567.3000000000001,"text":"那我現在把偽陽性給您聽了"},{"start":567.3000000000001,"end":569.3000000000001,"text":"因為這個醫學上是常用的"},{"start":569.3000000000001,"end":571.3000000000001,"text":"所以你這個配套要一起來"},{"start":571.3000000000001,"end":573.3000000000001,"text":"不能重放有罪者"},{"start":573.3000000000001,"end":575.3000000000001,"text":"但是無辜者如果受害的情況下"},{"start":575.3000000000001,"end":577.3000000000001,"text":"你們怎麼處理"},{"start":577.3000000000001,"end":579.3000000000001,"text":"希望次長把這個部分的配套做好"},{"start":579.3000000000001,"end":581.3000000000001,"text":"謝謝次長 謝謝主席"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:26:10.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:26:14.539000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請法務部黃次長及司法院許廳長。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T09:26:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:26:16.300000+08:00","text":"請次長及廳長。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T09:26:17.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:26:17.940000+08:00","text":"委員好。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:26:18.366667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:26:29.110000+08:00","text":"次長，我之前質詢臺南監獄的事情，因為引起很大的迴響，所以全國監獄的管理員也都向我做一些陳情。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:26:29.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:26:42.100000+08:00","text":"部長有答應我兩週內要給我書面報告，現在已經到期了，但我還沒有看到，所以我要再催促一下，因為部長的承諾我想是一定要執行的。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:26:42.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:27:09.285714+08:00","text":"但是我也要謝謝矯正署，因為矯正署前幾天帶了大概六、七位同事來，儘量跟我說明他們整個的管理情形，我也了解他們的辛勞跟努力，但我也要說明，我們在質詢的時候其實並不是要對立，而是大家各司其職，就是行政院做事，而我們監督跟催促，大家都是為了國家跟人民好，所以書面報告也請不要漏掉。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T09:27:09.285714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:27:10.285714+08:00","text":"好，沒有問題。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:27:09.833333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:27:32.250000+08:00","text":"我現在先請教許廳長，7月18號下午1點鐘，一名法警被發現倒臥在臺中司法大廈宿舍區地面，疑似在臺中地院宿舍區架梯修樹時，可能因為大雨造成樓梯濕滑而失足墜落，不幸當場死亡，目前已報請檢察官相驗以釐清死因。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:27:32.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:27:35.418182+08:00","text":"我看到這個新聞非常難過，我想每個人都是一樣的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:27:35.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:27:53.100000+08:00","text":"我想請問許廳長跟次長，事情發生在法院宿舍，但法警又是法務部主管，我想請問，修剪宿舍的樹是法警的工作嗎？是嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-07-22T09:27:53.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:28:00.314286+08:00","text":"首先感謝委員關切司法院所屬法院同仁的健康與安全，為此表達謝意。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-07-22T09:28:01.366667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:28:09.546154+08:00","text":"關於這件事情，大家聽聞之後都深感遺憾，臺中地院也對家屬及此事件進行必要的處理……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:28:09.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:28:13.500000+08:00","text":"不好意思，因為今天的質詢時間比較短，廳長，這個是他的工作嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-07-22T09:28:14.427273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:28:17.336364+08:00","text":"關於這個部分，因為據目前的了解……","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:28:17.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:28:19.414286+08:00","text":"法警負責修樹嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-07-22T09:28:20.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:28:30.514286+08:00","text":"修剪樹枝是在宿舍區，他本身居住於宿舍區，據目前的了解，他並非因公指派而進行樹枝修剪。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:28:30.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:28:33.800000+08:00","text":"你的意思是，他是主動去做這樣的工作，是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:28:33.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:28:34.800000+08:00","text":"偏向如此？","quality":0},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-07-22T09:28:34.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:28:40.577778+08:00","text":"應該是說，據目前所了解的狀況，他並不是因為依照法院的指示來做修剪樹枝的工作。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:28:40.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:28:42.666667+08:00","text":"因為可能他的本職不是這樣。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-07-22T09:28:42.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:28:44.514286+08:00","text":"他是在宿舍區，他本身也居住在宿舍區。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:28:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:28:50.633333+08:00","text":"但是次長、廳長，我還是要說，司法院平常是不是應該就把環境維護好？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:28:50.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:29:00.766667+08:00","text":"第二個，即便是要協助修樹的工作，無論是由工友同仁或外包廠商負責，也要避免在大雨天工作，梯子最好還是要有人幫忙扶持。","quality":0.827},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:29:01.361538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:29:02.746154+08:00","text":"廳長，你認同我這個說法嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-07-22T09:29:02.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:29:10.042857+08:00","text":"我覺得所有公務員的福址都是司法院最關切的事情，這個部分我們會加強……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:29:10.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:29:14.400000+08:00","text":"他就是在下大雨當中滑下來的啊！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-07-22T09:29:14.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:29:16.700000+08:00","text":"但他並不是因為公務的指示來……","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:29:16.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:29:30.714286+08:00","text":"他不是因公，而是主動，即便如此，就是環境沒有弄好，有人需要去做這個工作，也許本來是別人的工作，比如外包廠商或工友同仁。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:29:31.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:29:38.714286+08:00","text":"但是基本上，我的意思是，你們就是要做一些處理，所以我希望，第一個，相關的撫卹一定要完善。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:29:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:29:40.888889+08:00","text":"我確認一下，撫卹部分是司法院還是法務部負責？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-07-22T09:29:43.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:29:56.966667+08:00","text":"造成死亡的結果如果符合因公的要件，得到的撫卹當然優於其他的事由，不過他到底是不是因公，這仍然要由銓敘部依照事實認定。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:29:57.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:30:02.814286+08:00","text":"這個你們一定要從寬解釋，他就是下雨天去幫忙修樹，將來如何避免？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:30:03.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:30:04.655556+08:00","text":"我請司法院是不是一週內給我回復？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:30:05.433333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:30:08.933333+08:00","text":"為什麼會發生這樣的事情，我們不能讓這種事情再發生了，好嗎？","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-07-22T09:30:08.933333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:30:09.933333+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:30:09.766667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:30:10.766667+08:00","text":"廳長請回座。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:30:11.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:30:24.914286+08:00","text":"次長，我上個月質詢過這個問題，臺灣2023年就全面禁止電子煙，但是我只要輸入「電子煙商店」這幾個關鍵字，還是可以在網路上看到大量的販售網站，依然可以繼續買。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:30:25.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:30:28.977778+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，上次部長說這不是法務部負責的，是衛福部負責。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:30:29.422222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:30:36.914286+08:00","text":"我尊重法規分工，但是行政院在報告中表示要跨部會合作，要完善多元毒品防制網絡。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:30:37.366667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:30:43.628571+08:00","text":"一個月過去了，我想請教法務部在跨部會合作中，這個部分做了哪些具體的工作？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:30:43.771429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:30:45.353846+08:00","text":"有沒有主動召開跨部會會議？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:30:45.507692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:30:51.077778+08:00","text":"有沒有協調衛福部、數發部、警政署，針對網路販售電子煙平臺進行聯合查處？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:30:51.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:30:55.100000+08:00","text":"還是只停留在書面報告呢？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T09:30:55.663636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:31:01.133333+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個當然是屬於菸害防制法業管的範圍，這的確是衛福部的主管法規。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T09:31:01.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:31:12.754545+08:00","text":"據我所知，行政院已經召開多次會議，事實上衛福部就菸害防制法有關電子煙的部分，把製造、運輸、販賣部分納入刑事處罰，持有處行政罰，他們都已經提出相關的修法草案。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:31:13.744444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:31:35.900000+08:00","text":"我要說的是，我當然知道菸害防制法的主責機關是衛福部，但我不是問法務部要不要取代衛福部執法，而是近年依托咪酯即喪屍煙彈最常見的施用方式就是透過電子煙，電子煙已經不是單純的菸害問題，而是新興毒品的重要施用載具。","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:31:36.233333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:31:43.177778+08:00","text":"既然報告也寫要跨部會合作，我想知道的是，在跨部會合作這個部分，法務部扮演什麼角色？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:31:43.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:31:47.250000+08:00","text":"我質詢衛福部時，當然也會問他扮演什麼角色，請問你們扮演什麼角色？","quality":0.655},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T09:31:48.071429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:32:01.357143+08:00","text":"了解，跟委員報告，電子煙本身就是一個載具，就像我剛才講的，它裡面如果裝的是毒品就違反毒品危害防制條例，就是一個犯罪，所以我們臺高檢就查緝面有結合各行政機關，各查緝機關有一個聯合查緝平臺來處理。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:32:01.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:32:09.346154+08:00","text":"次長，謝謝你的說明，我的重點是在跨部會合作，跨部會不要變成每個部會都不用做，但現在就變成這樣，不然誰來做呢？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:32:09.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:32:11+08:00","text":"卓院長嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:32:11.970588+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:32:16.523077+08:00","text":"依托咪酯在6月17號升級為一級毒品，但是我們從新聞上可以看到，這一個多月來，依托咪酯毒駕案件仍一再發生。","quality":0.622},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:32:17.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:32:31.350000+08:00","text":"剛剛也有立委在說明，我搜尋一下上週新聞就有好幾起，包括北部、中部、南部都有，可見升級為一級毒品對這個部分好像嚇阻力還是不足的。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:32:32.327273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:32:39.314286+08:00","text":"剛剛我也報告過，它結合電子煙，吸食非常容易，開車中隨時來一口，他們爽，但別人遭殃。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:32:40.266667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:32:44.900000+08:00","text":"次長，法務部不是人才輩出、人才很多嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:32:45.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:32:51.366667+08:00","text":"為什麼沒有想出一個方法或政策，能夠有效地降低這種高風險的狀況呢？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T09:32:52.063636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:33:05.200000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這涉及到法制面跟查緝面，有關查緝面，當然我們所有檢察機關指揮檢警調全面查緝沒有問題；至於法制面，有關於毒駕的部分或者是毒品犯罪，我們不斷地修法，大院的委員們也知道……","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:33:05.853846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:33:17.646154+08:00","text":"次長，我要告訴你，升級不是壞事，但是升級是一刀兩刃，因為這個藥是屬於醫院要用的，我自己在醫院工作一輩子，其實管到的是醫療人員，你知道他們的工作負荷有多重嗎？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:33:17.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:33:31.633333+08:00","text":"但是真正在外面的毒品，只有臺灣把醫療用的東西歸為一級毒品，這我也不反對，但在外面執行時的原意是為了管不當使用，所以你們要特別努力。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:33:31.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:33:49.500000+08:00","text":"次長，行政院在毒品及毒駕防制的簡報中，把強化查緝列為三大主軸之一，很重要，裡面特別提到要研議唾液檢驗入法，以加強時效跟量能，這都沒有問題，但我認為很重要的一點是，要快，也要準。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:33:50.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:34:07.777778+08:00","text":"這幾個方向都是對的，因為如果你查緝效率很好，但是準確性跟公信力有問題的話，不但沒有辦法確保檢驗的品質，還可能影響人民的權益和第一線執法人員執法的信心。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:34:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:34:15.846154+08:00","text":"最近有媒體指出，毒品唾液快篩疑似出現偽陽性，引起大家對準確性的討論。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:34:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:34:19.833333+08:00","text":"我先請教次長，您知道什麼叫偽陽性、為什麼會有偽陽性嗎？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T09:34:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:34:31.818182+08:00","text":"當然，因為快篩的部分，目前只是作為一個初篩的工具，它不像尿液有初篩跟確認的檢驗機制跟國家的標準，所以目前快篩就會產生……","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:34:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:34:47.933333+08:00","text":"次長，我跟你說，偽陽性、偽陰性這兩個詞在醫學界用得非常普遍，偽陽性的意思是說特異性不夠，就是其他不是依托咪酯的也會被驗出來，這個叫偽陽，他不是吸食毒品，但是其他的化學物，也許是結構相近等等，他就被驗出來。","quality":0.835},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:34:48.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:34:55.372727+08:00","text":"所以我想說，第一個，這個也要處理，在配套當中，你要讓第一線執法人員有一致的規範可依循，而且也要保障人民的權益。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:34:55.554545+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:35:15+08:00","text":"譬如駕駛人因為唾液快篩檢驗是偽陽性，你當場移置保管車輛、吊扣駕照、裁罰，你們剛剛也談了很多跟我們立法方向不太一致的地方，如果後面證明他不是施用毒品，而是偽陽性的話，你的配套也要準備好啊！","quality":0.729},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:35:15.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:35:17.033333+08:00","text":"例如保管費、補救機制。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:35:17.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:35:30.914286+08:00","text":"如果民眾因為你誤判而無法工作、遭受營業損失……次長，千萬不要讓執法走在前面，配套卻落在後面，即便現在偽陽性的機率也許是百分之幾。","quality":0.702},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:35:31.466667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:35:42.966667+08:00","text":"我剛剛已經解釋偽陽性給您聽了，因為這個在醫學上是常用的，所以你這個配套要一起提出來，不能縱放有罪者，但是如果有無辜者受害的情況，你們怎麼處理？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:35:43.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:35:45.157143+08:00","text":"希望次長把這個部分的配套做好，好嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T09:35:45.157143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:35:46.157143+08:00","text":"好，了解，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-22T09:35:45.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:35:47.050000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝次長，謝謝主席。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T09:35:47.550000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:35:48.978571+08:00","text":"謝謝陳委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（林委員沛祥代）","start":"2026-07-22T09:35:49.278571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:35:52.135714+08:00","text":"再來請翁曉玲委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":762,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時26分）謝謝主席，有請法務部黃次長及司法院許廳長。"],["主席：請次長及廳長。"],["黃次長謀信：委員好。"],["陳委員昭姿：好。次長，我之前質詢臺南監獄的事情，因為引起很大的迴響，所以全國監獄的管理員也都向我做一些陳情。部長有答應我兩週內要給我書面報告，現在已經到期了，但我還沒有看到，所以我要再催促一下，因為部長的承諾我想是一定要執行的。但是我也要謝謝矯正署，因為矯正署前幾天帶了大概六、七位同事來，儘量跟我說明他們整個的管理情形，我也了解他們的辛勞跟努力，但我也要說明，我們在質詢的時候其實並不是要對立，而是大家各司其職，就是行政院做事，而我們監督跟催促，大家都是為了國家跟人民好，所以書面報告也請不要漏掉。"],["黃次長謀信：好，沒有問題。"],["陳委員昭姿：我現在先請教許廳長，7月18號下午1點鐘，一名法警被發現倒臥在臺中司法大廈宿舍區地面，疑似在臺中地院宿舍區架梯修樹時，可能因為大雨造成樓梯濕滑而失足墜落，不幸當場死亡，目前已報請檢察官相驗以釐清死因。我看到這個新聞非常難過，我想每個人都是一樣的。我想請問許廳長跟次長，事情發生在法院宿舍，但法警又是法務部主管，我想請問，修剪宿舍的樹是法警的工作嗎？是嗎？"],["許廳長辰舟：首先感謝委員關切司法院所屬法院同仁的健康與安全，為此表達謝意。關於這件事情，大家聽聞之後都深感遺憾，臺中地院也對家屬及此事件進行必要的處理……"],["陳委員昭姿：不好意思，因為今天的質詢時間比較短，廳長，這個是他的工作嗎？"],["許廳長辰舟：關於這個部分，因為據目前的了解……"],["陳委員昭姿：法警負責修樹嗎？"],["許廳長辰舟：修剪樹枝是在宿舍區，他本身居住於宿舍區，據目前的了解，他並非因公指派而進行樹枝修剪。"],["陳委員昭姿：你的意思是，他是主動去做這樣的工作，是嗎？偏向如此？"],["許廳長辰舟：應該是說，據目前所了解的狀況，他並不是因為依照法院的指示來做修剪樹枝的工作。"],["陳委員昭姿：因為可能他的本職不是這樣。"],["許廳長辰舟：他是在宿舍區，他本身也居住在宿舍區。"],["陳委員昭姿：但是次長、廳長，我還是要說，司法院平常是不是應該就把環境維護好？第二個，即便是要協助修樹的工作，無論是由工友同仁或外包廠商負責，也要避免在大雨天工作，梯子最好還是要有人幫忙扶持。廳長，你認同我這個說法嗎？"],["許廳長辰舟：我覺得所有公務員的福址都是司法院最關切的事情，這個部分我們會加強……"],["陳委員昭姿：他就是在下大雨當中滑下來的啊！"],["許廳長辰舟：但他並不是因為公務的指示來……"],["陳委員昭姿：他不是因公，而是主動，即便如此，就是環境沒有弄好，有人需要去做這個工作，也許本來是別人的工作，比如外包廠商或工友同仁。但是基本上，我的意思是，你們就是要做一些處理，所以我希望，第一個，相關的撫卹一定要完善。我確認一下，撫卹部分是司法院還是法務部負責？"],["許廳長辰舟：造成死亡的結果如果符合因公的要件，得到的撫卹當然優於其他的事由，不過他到底是不是因公，這仍然要由銓敘部依照事實認定。"],["陳委員昭姿：這個你們一定要從寬解釋，他就是下雨天去幫忙修樹，將來如何避免？我請司法院是不是一週內給我回復？為什麼會發生這樣的事情，我們不能讓這種事情再發生了，好嗎？"],["許廳長辰舟：是，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員昭姿：廳長請回座。次長，我上個月質詢過這個問題，臺灣2023年就全面禁止電子煙，但是我只要輸入「電子煙商店」這幾個關鍵字，還是可以在網路上看到大量的販售網站，依然可以繼續買。針對這個部分，上次部長說這不是法務部負責的，是衛福部負責。我尊重法規分工，但是行政院在報告中表示要跨部會合作，要完善多元毒品防制網絡。一個月過去了，我想請教法務部在跨部會合作中，這個部分做了哪些具體的工作？有沒有主動召開跨部會會議？有沒有協調衛福部、數發部、警政署，針對網路販售電子煙平臺進行聯合查處？還是只停留在書面報告呢？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，這個當然是屬於菸害防制法業管的範圍，這的確是衛福部的主管法規。據我所知，行政院已經召開多次會議，事實上衛福部就菸害防制法有關電子煙的部分，把製造、運輸、販賣部分納入刑事處罰，持有處行政罰，他們都已經提出相關的修法草案。"],["陳委員昭姿：我要說的是，我當然知道菸害防制法的主責機關是衛福部，但我不是問法務部要不要取代衛福部執法，而是近年依托咪酯即喪屍煙彈最常見的施用方式就是透過電子煙，電子煙已經不是單純的菸害問題，而是新興毒品的重要施用載具。既然報告也寫要跨部會合作，我想知道的是，在跨部會合作這個部分，法務部扮演什麼角色？我質詢衛福部時，當然也會問他扮演什麼角色，請問你們扮演什麼角色？"],["黃次長謀信：了解，跟委員報告，電子煙本身就是一個載具，就像我剛才講的，它裡面如果裝的是毒品就違反毒品危害防制條例，就是一個犯罪，所以我們臺高檢就查緝面有結合各行政機關，各查緝機關有一個聯合查緝平臺來處理。"],["陳委員昭姿：次長，謝謝你的說明，我的重點是在跨部會合作，跨部會不要變成每個部會都不用做，但現在就變成這樣，不然誰來做呢？卓院長嗎？依托咪酯在6月17號升級為一級毒品，但是我們從新聞上可以看到，這一個多月來，依托咪酯毒駕案件仍一再發生。剛剛也有立委在說明，我搜尋一下上週新聞就有好幾起，包括北部、中部、南部都有，可見升級為一級毒品對這個部分好像嚇阻力還是不足的。剛剛我也報告過，它結合電子煙，吸食非常容易，開車中隨時來一口，他們爽，但別人遭殃。次長，法務部不是人才輩出、人才很多嗎？為什麼沒有想出一個方法或政策，能夠有效地降低這種高風險的狀況呢？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，這涉及到法制面跟查緝面，有關查緝面，當然我們所有檢察機關指揮檢警調全面查緝沒有問題；至於法制面，有關於毒駕的部分或者是毒品犯罪，我們不斷地修法，大院的委員們也知道……"],["陳委員昭姿：次長，我要告訴你，升級不是壞事，但是升級是一刀兩刃，因為這個藥是屬於醫院要用的，我自己在醫院工作一輩子，其實管到的是醫療人員，你知道他們的工作負荷有多重嗎？但是真正在外面的毒品，只有臺灣把醫療用的東西歸為一級毒品，這我也不反對，但在外面執行時的原意是為了管不當使用，所以你們要特別努力。次長，行政院在毒品及毒駕防制的簡報中，把強化查緝列為三大主軸之一，很重要，裡面特別提到要研議唾液檢驗入法，以加強時效跟量能，這都沒有問題，但我認為很重要的一點是，要快，也要準。這幾個方向都是對的，因為如果你查緝效率很好，但是準確性跟公信力有問題的話，不但沒有辦法確保檢驗的品質，還可能影響人民的權益和第一線執法人員執法的信心。最近有媒體指出，毒品唾液快篩疑似出現偽陽性，引起大家對準確性的討論。我先請教次長，您知道什麼叫偽陽性、為什麼會有偽陽性嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：當然，因為快篩的部分，目前只是作為一個初篩的工具，它不像尿液有初篩跟確認的檢驗機制跟國家的標準，所以目前快篩就會產生……"],["陳委員昭姿：次長，我跟你說，偽陽性、偽陰性這兩個詞在醫學界用得非常普遍，偽陽性的意思是說特異性不夠，就是其他不是依托咪酯的也會被驗出來，這個叫偽陽，他不是吸食毒品，但是其他的化學物，也許是結構相近等等，他就被驗出來。所以我想說，第一個，這個也要處理，在配套當中，你要讓第一線執法人員有一致的規範可依循，而且也要保障人民的權益。譬如駕駛人因為唾液快篩檢驗是偽陽性，你當場移置保管車輛、吊扣駕照、裁罰，你們剛剛也談了很多跟我們立法方向不太一致的地方，如果後面證明他不是施用毒品，而是偽陽性的話，你的配套也要準備好啊！例如保管費、補救機制。如果民眾因為你誤判而無法工作、遭受營業損失……次長，千萬不要讓執法走在前面，配套卻落在後面，即便現在偽陽性的機率也許是百分之幾。我剛剛已經解釋偽陽性給您聽了，因為這個在醫學上是常用的，所以你這個配套要一起提出來，不能縱放有罪者，但是如果有無辜者受害的情況，你們怎麼處理？希望次長把這個部分的配套做好，好嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：好，了解，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝次長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員。"],["主席（林委員沛祥代）：再來請翁曉玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-36-26","speakers":["翁曉玲","洪孟楷","陳昭姿","張智倫","林倩綺","林沛祥","張雅琳","沈發惠","范雲","莊瑞雄","許宇甄","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","蔡其昌","吳宗憲","傅崐萁","柯志恩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-22"],"gazette_id":"1156502","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156502_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)行政院、司法院函請審議「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、\n(二)委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三)委員廖\n先翔等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之四條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員洪孟楷等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五)委員徐\n欣瑩等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之四條文修正草案」案、\n(六)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之四條文修正\n草案」案、(七)委員柯志恩等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、\n(八)委員林倩綺等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(九)委員邱\n若華等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十)委員萬美玲等19人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之四條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員\n陳亭妃等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃秀芳等\n20人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員林思銘等21人擬具「中華民\n國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第\n一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員陳菁徽等22人擬具「中\n華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員張智倫等16人擬具「中華民國刑\n法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百\n八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條\n之三、第一百八十五條之四及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」案、(二十)台灣民眾黨黨團擬\n具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「中\n華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十二)委員葉元之等18人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十三)委員王義川等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第\n一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十四)委員賴士葆等25人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八\n十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十五)委員涂權吉等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條\n之三及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」案、(二十六)委員楊瓊瓔等31人擬具「中華民國刑法\n第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十七)委員魯明哲等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百\n八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十八)委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五\n條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十九)委員王育敏等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三\n條文修正草案」案、(三十)委員黃健豪等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正\n草案」案、(三十一)委員王美惠等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」\n案、( 三十二) 委員陳素月等17 人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、\n(三十三)委員林淑芬等26人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三十\n四)委員李坤城等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三十五)委\n員盧縣一等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」\n案、( 三十六) 委員謝龍介等16 人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、\n(三十七)委員羅智強等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三十\n八)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三十九)委\n員李彥秀等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十)委員許宇甄\n等23人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十一)委員萬美玲等17人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、( 四十二) 委員林楚茵等17 人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十三)委員羅美玲等16人擬具「中華\n民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十四)委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「中華民國刑\n法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十五)委員張宏陸等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第一\n百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」案、(四十六)委員李柏毅等16人擬具「中\n華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十七)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十八)委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等18人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、 ( 四十九) 委員蔡易餘等16 人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十)委員徐富癸等17人擬具「中華民\n國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十一)委員何欣純等19人擬具「中華民國刑法\n第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十二)委員林宜瑾等23人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百\n八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十三)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五\n條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十四)委員劉建國等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三\n條文修正草案」案、(五十五)委員賴惠員等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修\n正草案」案、( 五十六) 委員郭昱晴等16 人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草\n案」案","agenda_id":"1156502_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}