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遊行法務部黃次長 還有司法院許廳長"},{"start":8.74,"end":10.56,"text":"好 請次長跟廳長"},{"start":11.14,"end":11.94,"text":"委員好"},{"start":11.94,"end":14.5,"text":"好 次長 我之前"},{"start":14.5,"end":17.2,"text":"質詢台南監獄這事情"},{"start":17.2,"end":19.2,"text":"那因為引起很大的迴響"},{"start":19.2,"end":23.34,"text":"在全國監獄的管理員也都向我做一些懲情"},{"start":23.34,"end":26.400000000000002,"text":"部長有答應我說兩週內要給我書面"},{"start":26.400000000000002,"end":29.2,"text":"書面報告 現在已經到期了"},{"start":29.3,"end":31.3,"text":"那我知道我還沒有看到"},{"start":31.3,"end":33.3,"text":"但是我要再催促一下"},{"start":33.3,"end":36.3,"text":"因為部長的承諾我想是一定要執行"},{"start":36.3,"end":38.3,"text":"但是我也是謝謝說"},{"start":38.3,"end":42.1,"text":"小政署 小政署親自前幾天也帶了大概六七位同事"},{"start":42.1,"end":45,"text":"盡量跟我說明他們整個的管理情形"},{"start":45,"end":47,"text":"我也了解他們的辛勞跟努力"},{"start":47,"end":50,"text":"但是我也要說明說我們在質詢的時候"},{"start":50,"end":51.7,"text":"其實並不是要對立"},{"start":51.7,"end":53.5,"text":"就是大家各司其職"},{"start":53.5,"end":54.5,"text":"就是行政院做事"},{"start":54.5,"end":57.4,"text":"那我們來做一個監督跟催促"},{"start":57.5,"end":60.5,"text":"那大家都是為了這個國家跟人民好"},{"start":60.5,"end":63.5,"text":"所以這個書面報告也請不要漏掉"},{"start":63.5,"end":65.5,"text":"好 那我現在就先請教許廳長"},{"start":65.5,"end":67.5,"text":"7月18號下午一點鐘"},{"start":67.5,"end":69.5,"text":"一名法官被發現倒臥在"},{"start":69.5,"end":72.5,"text":"台中司法大廈的這個宿舍區的地面"},{"start":72.5,"end":74,"text":"疑似在台中地院"},{"start":74,"end":76.5,"text":"他為了這個在宿舍區架梯修樹"},{"start":76.5,"end":80.5,"text":"這個可能因為大雨造成樓梯很這個失法"},{"start":80.5,"end":81.5,"text":"屍足墜落"},{"start":81.5,"end":83.5,"text":"然後不幸當場死亡"},{"start":83.5,"end":85.5,"text":"目前已經報警檢察官來相驗"},{"start":85.5,"end":86.5,"text":"釐清死因"},{"start":86.6,"end":87.6,"text":"我看到這個新聞非常難過"},{"start":87.6,"end":89.6,"text":"我想每一個人都是一樣的"},{"start":89.6,"end":92.6,"text":"那我現在請問許廳長跟次長"},{"start":92.6,"end":95.6,"text":"事情發生在法務法院的宿舍"},{"start":95.6,"end":98.6,"text":"但法警就是法務部來所主管"},{"start":98.6,"end":102.6,"text":"我想請問修檢宿舍的宿"},{"start":102.6,"end":104.6,"text":"是法警的工作嗎"},{"start":106.6,"end":107.6,"text":"是嗎"},{"start":107.6,"end":110.6,"text":"首先感謝委員關切司法院所屬法院"},{"start":110.6,"end":112.6,"text":"這個同仁的這個健康與安全"},{"start":112.6,"end":114.6,"text":"那表示表達謝意"},{"start":114.69999999999999,"end":116.69999999999999,"text":"那這個關於這件事情"},{"start":116.69999999999999,"end":119.69999999999999,"text":"大家聽聞之後深感遺憾"},{"start":119.69999999999999,"end":121.69999999999999,"text":"那台中地院也對於這個家屬"},{"start":121.69999999999999,"end":123.69999999999999,"text":"以及這個事件進行必要的處理"},{"start":123.69999999999999,"end":125.69999999999999,"text":"不好意思因為今天的質詢時間比較短"},{"start":125.69999999999999,"end":127.69999999999999,"text":"次長這個是他的工作嗎"},{"start":127.69999999999999,"end":131.7,"text":"這個這個部分因為據目前"},{"start":131.7,"end":133.7,"text":"法警負責修樹嗎"},{"start":133.7,"end":135.7,"text":"他這個修檢樹枝是在宿舍區"},{"start":135.7,"end":137.7,"text":"那他本身居住於宿舍區"},{"start":137.7,"end":139.7,"text":"那這個修檢樹枝"},{"start":139.7,"end":142.7,"text":"目前的了解他並非因公指派"},{"start":142.79999999999998,"end":144.79999999999998,"text":"進行樹枝的修剪"},{"start":144.79999999999998,"end":146.79999999999998,"text":"你的意思是說他是主動去做這樣的工作"},{"start":146.79999999999998,"end":148.79999999999998,"text":"是嗎"},{"start":148.79999999999998,"end":150.79999999999998,"text":"應該是說目前了解的狀況"},{"start":150.79999999999998,"end":152.79999999999998,"text":"他並不是因為依照法院的指示"},{"start":152.79999999999998,"end":154.79999999999998,"text":"來做修檢樹枝的工作"},{"start":154.79999999999998,"end":156.79999999999998,"text":"因為他可能不是他的本質不是這樣"},{"start":156.79999999999998,"end":158.79999999999998,"text":"他只是在宿舍區"},{"start":158.79999999999998,"end":160.79999999999998,"text":"那但是次長我還是要說"},{"start":160.79999999999998,"end":162.79999999999998,"text":"還有聽長司法院平常"},{"start":162.79999999999998,"end":164.79999999999998,"text":"是不是應該就把環境維護好"},{"start":164.79999999999998,"end":166.79999999999998,"text":"第二個即便是要協助修樹的工作"},{"start":166.79999999999998,"end":168.79999999999998,"text":"無論這是本來是這個"},{"start":168.79999999999998,"end":170.79999999999998,"text":"公有的同仁或外包廠商"},{"start":170.9,"end":172.9,"text":"也要避免在大雨天工作"},{"start":172.9,"end":174.9,"text":"那你最好梯子還有人幫忙這個扶持"},{"start":174.9,"end":176.9,"text":"我想聽長你認同我這個說法嗎"},{"start":176.9,"end":178.9,"text":"我覺得所有公務員的這個扶持"},{"start":178.9,"end":180.9,"text":"都是司法院的這個最關切的事情"},{"start":180.9,"end":182.9,"text":"那這個部分呢"},{"start":182.9,"end":184.9,"text":"我們會加強這個"},{"start":184.9,"end":186.9,"text":"他就是在下大雨當中"},{"start":186.9,"end":188.9,"text":"滑下來的"},{"start":188.9,"end":190.9,"text":"但是他其實並不是因為"},{"start":190.9,"end":192.9,"text":"他不是因為對他主動"},{"start":192.9,"end":194.9,"text":"即便如此就是環境沒有弄好"},{"start":194.9,"end":196.9,"text":"就是有人需要去做這個工作"},{"start":196.9,"end":198.9,"text":"也許本來是別人的工作"},{"start":199,"end":201,"text":"也許本來是別人的工作"},{"start":201,"end":203,"text":"就是外包廠商或是這個"},{"start":203,"end":205,"text":"其他的公有同仁"},{"start":205,"end":207,"text":"那基本上我的意思是說"},{"start":207,"end":209,"text":"你就是要做一些處理"},{"start":209,"end":211,"text":"所以我希望說第一個相關的"},{"start":211,"end":213,"text":"補序一定要完善"},{"start":213,"end":215,"text":"我確認一下這個補序是司法院還是法務部"},{"start":215,"end":217,"text":"這個有關"},{"start":217,"end":219,"text":"他這個造成這個死亡的結果"},{"start":219,"end":221,"text":"如果是因公補序的"},{"start":221,"end":223,"text":"要符合因公的要件"},{"start":223,"end":225,"text":"那他的這個"},{"start":225,"end":227,"text":"得到的補序當然優於其他的室友"},{"start":227.1,"end":229.1,"text":"不過他到底是不是因公"},{"start":229.1,"end":231.1,"text":"那這仍然要全序部來依照這個事實"},{"start":231.1,"end":233.1,"text":"這個你一定要從國安法解釋"},{"start":233.1,"end":235.1,"text":"他就是下雨天去幫忙修宿嘛"},{"start":235.1,"end":237.1,"text":"那將來如何避免"},{"start":237.1,"end":239.1,"text":"我想說請司法院是不是一周給我回覆一下"},{"start":239.1,"end":241.1,"text":"因為為什麼發生這樣的事情"},{"start":241.1,"end":243.1,"text":"我們不能讓它再發生了好嗎"},{"start":243.1,"end":245.1,"text":"那市長請回座"},{"start":245.1,"end":247.1,"text":"我上個月質詢過這個問題"},{"start":247.1,"end":249.1,"text":"台灣2023年就全面禁止電子煙"},{"start":249.1,"end":251.1,"text":"但是我只要輸入"},{"start":251.1,"end":253.1,"text":"電子煙商店這幾個關鍵字"},{"start":253.1,"end":255.1,"text":"還是可以看到這個網路上"},{"start":255.2,"end":257.2,"text":"有大量的販售網站"},{"start":257.2,"end":259.2,"text":"依然可以繼續買"},{"start":259.2,"end":261.2,"text":"那這個部分上次部長說他不是法務部"},{"start":261.2,"end":263.2,"text":"負責的是外服部負責"},{"start":263.2,"end":265.2,"text":"那我尊重法規的分工"},{"start":265.2,"end":267.2,"text":"但是行政院在報告就講"},{"start":267.2,"end":269.2,"text":"要跨部會合作要完善多元"},{"start":269.2,"end":271.2,"text":"毒品的防治網絡"},{"start":271.2,"end":273.2,"text":"那一個月過去了那我想請教"},{"start":273.2,"end":275.2,"text":"是法務部在跨部會合作"},{"start":275.2,"end":277.2,"text":"這個部分有沒有做了哪些"},{"start":277.2,"end":279.2,"text":"具體工作有沒有主動召開跨部會"},{"start":279.2,"end":281.2,"text":"會議有沒有協調外服部、速發部"},{"start":281.2,"end":283.2,"text":"甚至警政署"},{"start":283.3,"end":285.3,"text":"網路販售電子煙平台進行聯合的一個查詢"},{"start":285.3,"end":287.3,"text":"還是說"},{"start":287.3,"end":289.3,"text":"就留在一個書面報告呢"},{"start":289.3,"end":291.3,"text":"各位報告這個當然是屬於"},{"start":291.3,"end":293.3,"text":"煙害防治法所業管的範圍"},{"start":293.3,"end":295.3,"text":"他的確是外服部的主管法規"},{"start":295.3,"end":297.3,"text":"那據我所知行政院已經召開多次會議"},{"start":297.3,"end":299.3,"text":"事實上外服部就這"},{"start":299.3,"end":301.3,"text":"煙害防治法有關於電子煙的部分"},{"start":301.3,"end":303.3,"text":"他這個製造運輸販賣部分"},{"start":303.3,"end":305.3,"text":"他把入刑持有把行政法"},{"start":305.3,"end":307.3,"text":"他都已經提出相關的情況"},{"start":307.3,"end":309.3,"text":"是的我要說的就是說"},{"start":309.3,"end":311.3,"text":"煙害防治我當然知道主責機關是外服部"},{"start":311.40000000000003,"end":313.40000000000003,"text":"我不是問外服部要不要取代"},{"start":313.40000000000003,"end":315.40000000000003,"text":"是法務部要不要取代外服部"},{"start":315.40000000000003,"end":317.40000000000003,"text":"來執法而是今年這個"},{"start":317.40000000000003,"end":319.40000000000003,"text":"一托米紙上次一案最常見的使用"},{"start":319.40000000000003,"end":321.40000000000003,"text":"就是因為電子煙"},{"start":321.40000000000003,"end":323.40000000000003,"text":"他透過電子煙"},{"start":323.40000000000003,"end":325.40000000000003,"text":"電子已經不是單純的煙害問題"},{"start":325.40000000000003,"end":327.40000000000003,"text":"而是一個最新更新圖品"},{"start":327.40000000000003,"end":329.40000000000003,"text":"新新圖品的這個重要適用的"},{"start":329.40000000000003,"end":331.40000000000003,"text":"這個載具那既然你報告也寫"},{"start":331.40000000000003,"end":333.40000000000003,"text":"跨部會合作啊"},{"start":333.40000000000003,"end":335.40000000000003,"text":"那我是想知道在跨部會合作這個部分"},{"start":335.40000000000003,"end":337.40000000000003,"text":"法務部扮演什麼角色"},{"start":337.40000000000003,"end":339.40000000000003,"text":"我到外服當然也問他扮演什麼角色"},{"start":339.5,"end":341.5,"text":"你扮演了什麼角色"},{"start":341.5,"end":343.5,"text":"這個跟委員報告"},{"start":343.5,"end":345.5,"text":"那電子煙本身它就是一個載具"},{"start":345.5,"end":347.5,"text":"我剛才講它裡面裝的是毒品"},{"start":347.5,"end":349.5,"text":"它就違反我們毒品外害防治條例"},{"start":349.5,"end":351.5,"text":"它就是一個犯罪"},{"start":351.5,"end":353.5,"text":"所以我們台高檢它就查氣面"},{"start":353.5,"end":355.5,"text":"它有結合各行政機關各查緝機關"},{"start":355.5,"end":357.5,"text":"謝謝你的說明我的要求"},{"start":357.5,"end":359.5,"text":"跨部會合作因為跨部會不要"},{"start":359.5,"end":361.5,"text":"每個部位都不用做嘛"},{"start":361.5,"end":363.5,"text":"現在就變成這樣不然誰來做呢"},{"start":363.5,"end":365.5,"text":"卓院長嗎"},{"start":365.5,"end":367.5,"text":"那這個一托米紙在6月17號升級為一級毒品"},{"start":367.6,"end":369.6,"text":"我們從新聞上可以看到"},{"start":369.6,"end":371.6,"text":"這一個多月來一托米紙獨家案"},{"start":371.6,"end":373.6,"text":"剛剛也有人在立委在說明"},{"start":373.6,"end":375.6,"text":"一再發生"},{"start":375.6,"end":377.6,"text":"我搜尋上週新聞就有好幾起"},{"start":377.6,"end":379.6,"text":"中部南部台北部中部南部都有"},{"start":379.6,"end":381.6,"text":"可見說"},{"start":381.6,"end":383.6,"text":"升級為一級毒品對這個好像"},{"start":383.6,"end":385.6,"text":"賀主力還是不足的"},{"start":385.6,"end":387.6,"text":"那因為他剛剛我也報告過"},{"start":387.6,"end":389.6,"text":"他結合電子煙這個吸食非常容易"},{"start":389.6,"end":391.6,"text":"開車中隨時來一口"},{"start":391.6,"end":393.6,"text":"他們爽別人遭殃"},{"start":393.6,"end":395.6,"text":"那次長"},{"start":395.70000000000005,"end":397.70000000000005,"text":"法務部不是人才背書嗎"},{"start":397.70000000000005,"end":399.70000000000005,"text":"不是人才很多嗎為什麼"},{"start":399.70000000000005,"end":401.70000000000005,"text":"沒有想出一個方法或政策"},{"start":401.70000000000005,"end":403.70000000000005,"text":"能夠有效的降低這種高風險"},{"start":403.70000000000005,"end":405.70000000000005,"text":"的這個狀況呢"},{"start":405.70000000000005,"end":407.70000000000005,"text":"個人報告這涉及到法治面"},{"start":407.70000000000005,"end":409.70000000000005,"text":"跟查緝面查緝面當然我們"},{"start":409.70000000000005,"end":411.70000000000005,"text":"所有的檢察機關只會檢警掉全列查緝面"},{"start":411.70000000000005,"end":413.70000000000005,"text":"問題那法治面"},{"start":413.70000000000005,"end":415.70000000000005,"text":"跟國研報告有關於這個毒價的部分"},{"start":415.70000000000005,"end":417.70000000000005,"text":"或者是毒品犯罪我們不斷的"},{"start":417.70000000000005,"end":419.70000000000005,"text":"修法過延為拉也有"},{"start":419.70000000000005,"end":421.70000000000005,"text":"那我也要告訴你升級不是壞事"},{"start":421.70000000000005,"end":423.70000000000005,"text":"但是升級是一刀兩刃"},{"start":423.8,"end":425.8,"text":"因為這個藥是屬於在醫院要用的"},{"start":425.8,"end":427.8,"text":"我自己在醫院工作一輩子"},{"start":427.8,"end":429.8,"text":"你知道管道的是醫療人員"},{"start":429.8,"end":431.8,"text":"你知道他們的工作負荷有多重"},{"start":431.8,"end":433.8,"text":"但是這個真正的在外面的這個毒品"},{"start":433.8,"end":435.8,"text":"台灣只有只有台灣"},{"start":435.8,"end":437.8,"text":"把醫療用的東西放為一級毒品"},{"start":437.8,"end":439.8,"text":"但我也不反對"},{"start":439.8,"end":441.8,"text":"只是說一刀但是你在外面在執行的時候"},{"start":441.8,"end":443.8,"text":"原地為了這個管這個不該"},{"start":443.8,"end":445.8,"text":"不當的使用你們要特別努力"},{"start":445.8,"end":447.8,"text":"次長行政院在毒品及防治這個"},{"start":447.8,"end":449.8,"text":"毒價防治當中情報"},{"start":449.8,"end":451.8,"text":"其中把強化查緝作為"},{"start":451.90000000000003,"end":453.90000000000003,"text":"三大組的很重要"},{"start":453.90000000000003,"end":455.90000000000003,"text":"那裡面有特別提到要唾液這個檢驗入法"},{"start":455.90000000000003,"end":457.90000000000003,"text":"加強時效跟量能"},{"start":457.90000000000003,"end":459.90000000000003,"text":"這個都沒有問題"},{"start":459.90000000000003,"end":461.90000000000003,"text":"但是我認為很重要的一點是什麼呢"},{"start":461.90000000000003,"end":463.90000000000003,"text":"要快也要準"},{"start":463.90000000000003,"end":465.90000000000003,"text":"那這幾個方向都是對的"},{"start":465.90000000000003,"end":467.90000000000003,"text":"那因為如果你這個查緝效率很好"},{"start":467.90000000000003,"end":469.90000000000003,"text":"但是不準"},{"start":469.90000000000003,"end":471.90000000000003,"text":"準確性跟這個"},{"start":471.90000000000003,"end":473.90000000000003,"text":"公信力有問題的話"},{"start":473.90000000000003,"end":475.90000000000003,"text":"那不但沒有同步確保這個檢驗的品質"},{"start":475.90000000000003,"end":477.90000000000003,"text":"可能影響人民"},{"start":477.90000000000003,"end":479.90000000000003,"text":"的權益而且影響第一線執法人員"},{"start":480,"end":482,"text":"他的執法的這個信心"},{"start":482,"end":484,"text":"最近有媒體指出"},{"start":484,"end":486,"text":"毒品這個唾液快篩"},{"start":486,"end":488,"text":"疑似出現偽陽性"},{"start":488,"end":490,"text":"因此大家對這個準確性的討論"},{"start":490,"end":492,"text":"我先請教次長您知道什麼叫"},{"start":492,"end":494,"text":"偽陽性嗎為什麼會有偽陽性"},{"start":494,"end":496,"text":"當然因為這個快篩"},{"start":496,"end":498,"text":"的部分他目前他只是做一個"},{"start":498,"end":500,"text":"初篩的工具他沒有像尿液他有"},{"start":500,"end":502,"text":"初篩跟確認的檢驗機制跟"},{"start":502,"end":504,"text":"國家的一個這個標準"},{"start":504,"end":506,"text":"所以目前快篩他就會產生"},{"start":506,"end":508,"text":"次長我跟你說偽陽性"},{"start":508.1,"end":510.1,"text":"偽陽性在醫學界用的非常普遍"},{"start":510.1,"end":512.1,"text":"偽陽性的意思說"},{"start":512.1,"end":514.1,"text":"這個特異性不夠"},{"start":514.1,"end":516.1,"text":"就其他不是依托名詞也會被驗出來"},{"start":516.1,"end":518.1,"text":"這個叫偽陽他不是"},{"start":518.1,"end":520.1,"text":"吸食毒但是其他的化學物"},{"start":520.1,"end":522.1,"text":"也許結構等等他就被驗出來"},{"start":522.1,"end":524.1,"text":"所以我想說第一個這個"},{"start":524.1,"end":526.1,"text":"也要處理在配套當中"},{"start":526.1,"end":528.1,"text":"如果你讓第一線執法人員有一致的依循"},{"start":528.1,"end":530.1,"text":"而且保障人民權益譬如說"},{"start":530.1,"end":532.1,"text":"駕駛人員偽陽性是偽陽性"},{"start":532.1,"end":534.1,"text":"假設最後證明是偽陽性嘛"},{"start":534.1,"end":536.1,"text":"那你當場一致保管確認"},{"start":536.2,"end":538.2,"text":"剛剛也談了很多跟我們立法方向"},{"start":538.2,"end":540.2,"text":"不太一致的地方"},{"start":540.2,"end":542.2,"text":"調扣駕照裁罰"},{"start":542.2,"end":545.2,"text":"如果說後面證明他不是"},{"start":545.2,"end":547.2,"text":"適用毒品而是偽陽性的話"},{"start":547.2,"end":549.2,"text":"那你也配套也要準備好"},{"start":549.2,"end":551.2,"text":"如果說你的保管費補救機制"},{"start":551.2,"end":553.2,"text":"那你誤判無法工作"},{"start":553.2,"end":555.2,"text":"遭受營業損失"},{"start":555.2,"end":557.2,"text":"就是說千萬不要"},{"start":557.2,"end":559.2,"text":"千萬不要讓這個"},{"start":559.2,"end":561.2,"text":"執法在前面配套在後面"},{"start":561.2,"end":563.2,"text":"即便他的偽陽性現在"},{"start":563.2,"end":565.2,"text":"也許是百分之幾"},{"start":565.3000000000001,"end":567.3000000000001,"text":"那我現在把偽陽性給您聽了"},{"start":567.3000000000001,"end":569.3000000000001,"text":"因為這個醫學上是常用的"},{"start":569.3000000000001,"end":571.3000000000001,"text":"所以你這個配套要一起來"},{"start":571.3000000000001,"end":573.3000000000001,"text":"不能重放有罪者"},{"start":573.3000000000001,"end":575.3000000000001,"text":"但是無辜者如果受害的情況下"},{"start":575.3000000000001,"end":577.3000000000001,"text":"你們怎麼處理"},{"start":577.3000000000001,"end":579.3000000000001,"text":"希望次長把這個部分的配套做好"},{"start":579.3000000000001,"end":581.3000000000001,"text":"謝謝次長 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