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warfare、psychological warfare、media warfare是同步產生，我們平常聽到有叫misinformation，可能我是好意，但是中間誤導了幾個資訊就傳給人家，後面就變成disinformation，產生了fake news，最後就是你講的認知作戰（cognitive warfare）。","quality":0.995},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:36:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:37:27.764706+08:00","text":"所以我們很多的情況下，國內的同仁或者一般社會媒體，我們看到的並不是一個完整的透明現象，在這種情況下，我們常常提到國際法，中國大陸很會利用我們剛剛講的灰色地帶，那是地理位置劃界不明；另外還有一個灰色區塊，引述過去法律不同的時間、不同的內容，他去套一個不同的practice，這種現象我們需要一個透明的圖表，如簡報上面的本質、四點原則、五項做法，這完全是外交部展示的東西，我們提一個建議，讓他了解國際仲裁庭並不是國際法庭，它不涉及國家主權，但它是利益糾紛、私權的爭端，我們需要國家公權力作為後盾。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:37:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:37:55.769231+08:00","text":"另外，海巡駐守南沙、太平島和東沙，我們需要國家持續在上面支持，如果有機會，是不是也可以邀請外媒到東沙、到太平島，在島上做一個現勘及訪問，剛好條法司司長也站在旁邊，等一下剛好借重您的專業。","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:37:56.470588+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:38:16.785714+08:00","text":"除了海巡署不定期派艦船巡邏以外，另外，因為在東沙島跟太平島，一個是有領海基線，另一個是禁止水域、限制水域，所以它的偵蒐器、平面雷達涵蓋範圍有限，可能未來我們還要請海巡在那邊部署無人機以能夠做反應。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:38:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:38:59.750000+08:00","text":"我下面就用圖來給大家看，這一張圖是顯示臺灣，這個就是套疊整個南海島的位置，左上角是根據內政部公布的，透過行政院發布的兩次命令，民國88年、98年，這裡面黃岩島是我們領海基線的設定，中國大陸跟菲律賓在那邊爭吵，實際上我們的立場就是產權登記在我家，你們如何引起爭端，那是你們家的事，但是我們要強調我們的主權。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:39:00.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:39:25.700000+08:00","text":"各位看到的這個是衛星照片，就是把每一個島礁校正同一個比例，你看到中國大陸現在跟菲律賓在吵的就是右上角的黃岩島、民主礁，那是目前最大的涵蓋範圍，其海底生態、漁貨，因為範圍很大，所以涉及到利益，對此我們是有主權的。","quality":0.874},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:39:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:39:49.111111+08:00","text":"這個圖則是暗礁，沒有出來的，中國大陸人工島礁就是美濟礁、渚碧礁跟永暑礁，原來太平島是在南海裡面最大的島，現在變成第四大了，可是中國大陸持續它的威力，最近在南海中間另外一個，就是昨天報紙也講的仁愛礁。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T09:39:49.777778+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:39:49.777778+08:00","text":"仁愛礁。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:39:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:40:32.818182+08:00","text":"但仁愛礁是在水下的，所以菲律賓在1999年把二次大戰的登陸艦，叫作Madre，在那邊grounding，他利用grounding的船變成基地，目前中國大陸跟菲律賓在那邊爭吵的，第一個是用海警，菲律賓在船上派的是海軍，當海警跟海軍起衝突的時候，海軍的法律要吃虧了，因為他們做的是law enforcement，並不是軍事上的爭執，所以他們雙方拿這個所謂的……下去後我提供這個圖給外交部同仁參考，我們把這個圖檔……","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T09:40:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:40:34.833333+08:00","text":"這太珍貴了，趕快把它照起來。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:40:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:40:47.800000+08:00","text":"因為這是已經校正過的，我們也希望將來我提供更大的範圖給您做參考，我們也要了解在仁愛礁起衝突，那個仁愛礁到底在哪裡？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:40:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:40:48.800000+08:00","text":"是什麼現況？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:40:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:40:50.800000+08:00","text":"我們提供進一步的分析。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:40:51.111111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:41:18.777778+08:00","text":"至於黃岩島的部分，因為是內政部公布了，外交部要有自己的立場，本席在仲裁庭判決之前，也透過荷蘭的國防部長安排，所以我邀了當年的代表周台竹，我們也到現場去了解這個狀況，後續產生的問題，今天因為時間有限，我們把這個建言再回饋給外交部。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T09:41:18.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:41:19.777778+08:00","text":"太好了，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:41:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:42:00.714286+08:00","text":"各位再看這裡面有個東西，外交部可能要做一點study，在1898年美國跟西班牙有美西戰爭，後來他們簽了一個巴黎停火協議，這個協議裡面包括把古巴、關島及其他的島礁，包括菲律賓的這些島礁，美國給2,000萬美金做調停，但是他把管轄權就歸給美國，在二戰以後，菲律賓才獨立，在當年簽的協議第三條裡面，部長，您看這個虛線就是涵蓋的範圍。是！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:42:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:42:15.800000+08:00","text":"這個涵蓋的範圍，仁愛礁是在外面的，同樣的黃岩島也在外面，這是歷史，我們不去吵誰對誰錯，但這個故事可能我們需要了解一下。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:42:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:42:45.600000+08:00","text":"這個圖我們放更大了，看到黃岩島、看到仁愛礁，太平島在中間，這個框框就是1898年美西停火在巴黎協議講的那個界線，我們希望了解一下，美國支付2,000萬美元，等於買了菲律賓的主權，後面1900年又再付10萬美元做一個補充。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:42:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:43:08.666667+08:00","text":"這個是今天早上七點半在太平島周遭，我們也發現離岸很近大概1,000公尺有個不明目標，它把信號關掉，在外側也有，將來我們可能要建議海巡要用無人機出去看，這個要了解一下。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:43:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:04.875000+08:00","text":"最後，我們的經濟海域是用內政部勾劃的框架，中間重疊的黃色陰影區，就是上次菲律賓跟日本他們在談並沒有邀我們談的，如果我們將來提供這些圖給條法司做參考，在做論述方面上，要有我們自己的立場，條法的細節就不講了，最主要就是各位看一下右邊的沖之鳥礁，日本因為劃了200浬經濟海域，所以我們的漁民到那裡，這一段我不談日本在國際法上是不是雙標，但是保護漁民的時候，我想我們外交部在這個地方要爭取保護漁民的利益，同樣海巡署也希望能夠透過管道跟日本的海巡做溝通，我今天報告到這邊，請部長做一些回應。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:14.857143+08:00","text":"謝謝委員用可視化的圖表展示，讓我們大家可以一目了然，首先真的非常感謝，我們也學了很多。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:15.230769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:21.888889+08:00","text":"確實不管是主權或漁權，我們的主張是很清楚、要不斷地宣示。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:36.823529+08:00","text":"另外，對爭議要怎麼解決，我們是主張用和平的方法，在爭議解決前，還是有共同的利益，這個時候怎麼樣擱置爭議、共同開發？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:37.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:46.846154+08:00","text":"臺灣領有這些島或者是周邊海域，我們是不是要扮演一個建設性的角色？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:47.727273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:45:04.769231+08:00","text":"不管是人道救援或者是災難防救，乃至於科研，都是比較正向的，我們希望用這樣的角色來參與。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T09:45:05.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:45:10.750000+08:00","text":"臺灣不能被排除在外，被排除在外我們都不承認，這是基於我們自己的國家利益嘛！","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T09:45:11.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:45:30.800000+08:00","text":"但是我們怎麼去跟他們交涉，比如說日本跟菲律賓之間他們有交涉，我們跟他們之間也有交涉，當然還有一些未交涉完的事項，所以我們的立場要表達，作為後續可以持續參與爭端解決跟協商，我們有一個主體的角色。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:45:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:45:39.833333+08:00","text":"剛剛部長您講的就是國家的核心利益，這個是沒有折衷妥協的；但是區域的利益有折衷，要溝通協商，這是很重要的。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:45:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:45:56.785714+08:00","text":"最主要就是不能夠脫鉤斷鏈，一定要跟這些國家……即便有局部利益的小衝突，都要溝通、化解，以區域安全的共同利益為主要目標，大家來溝通，這個部分要大家努力。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-22T09:45:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:45:57.750000+08:00","text":"謝謝，加油！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T09:45:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:45:58.750000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T09:45:59.250000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:02.964286+08:00","text":"接下來請王義川委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":101,"blocks":[["陳委員永康：（9時35分）主席，有請外交部林部長。"],["主席：請林部長。"],["陳委員永康：部長早安。"],["林部長佳龍：委員早。"],["陳委員永康：昨天也把今天您要報告的內容，我們也先做了一些study，根據這裡面我們做出一些建言，後面因為剛剛部長也講了，中國大陸現在對國際上面的「三戰」，legal warfare、psychological warfare、media warfare是同步產生，我們平常聽到有叫misinformation，可能我是好意，但是中間誤導了幾個資訊就傳給人家，後面就變成disinformation，產生了fake news，最後就是你講的認知作戰（cognitive warfare）。所以我們很多的情況下，國內的同仁或者一般社會媒體，我們看到的並不是一個完整的透明現象，在這種情況下，我們常常提到國際法，中國大陸很會利用我們剛剛講的灰色地帶，那是地理位置劃界不明；另外還有一個灰色區塊，引述過去法律不同的時間、不同的內容，他去套一個不同的practice，這種現象我們需要一個透明的圖表，如簡報上面的本質、四點原則、五項做法，這完全是外交部展示的東西，我們提一個建議，讓他了解國際仲裁庭並不是國際法庭，它不涉及國家主權，但它是利益糾紛、私權的爭端，我們需要國家公權力作為後盾。另外，海巡駐守南沙、太平島和東沙，我們需要國家持續在上面支持，如果有機會，是不是也可以邀請外媒到東沙、到太平島，在島上做一個現勘及訪問，剛好條法司司長也站在旁邊，等一下剛好借重您的專業。除了海巡署不定期派艦船巡邏以外，另外，因為在東沙島跟太平島，一個是有領海基線，另一個是禁止水域、限制水域，所以它的偵蒐器、平面雷達涵蓋範圍有限，可能未來我們還要請海巡在那邊部署無人機以能夠做反應。","我下面就用圖來給大家看，這一張圖是顯示臺灣，這個就是套疊整個南海島的位置，左上角是根據內政部公布的，透過行政院發布的兩次命令，民國88年、98年，這裡面黃岩島是我們領海基線的設定，中國大陸跟菲律賓在那邊爭吵，實際上我們的立場就是產權登記在我家，你們如何引起爭端，那是你們家的事，但是我們要強調我們的主權。各位看到的這個是衛星照片，就是把每一個島礁校正同一個比例，你看到中國大陸現在跟菲律賓在吵的就是右上角的黃岩島、民主礁，那是目前最大的涵蓋範圍，其海底生態、漁貨，因為範圍很大，所以涉及到利益，對此我們是有主權的。這個圖則是暗礁，沒有出來的，中國大陸人工島礁就是美濟礁、渚碧礁跟永暑礁，原來太平島是在南海裡面最大的島，現在變成第四大了，可是中國大陸持續它的威力，最近在南海中間另外一個，就是昨天報紙也講的仁愛礁。"],["林部長佳龍：仁愛礁。"],["陳委員永康：但仁愛礁是在水下的，所以菲律賓在1999年把二次大戰的登陸艦，叫作Madre，在那邊grounding，他利用grounding的船變成基地，目前中國大陸跟菲律賓在那邊爭吵的，第一個是用海警，菲律賓在船上派的是海軍，當海警跟海軍起衝突的時候，海軍的法律要吃虧了，因為他們做的是law enforcement，並不是軍事上的爭執，所以他們雙方拿這個所謂的……下去後我提供這個圖給外交部同仁參考，我們把這個圖檔……"],["林部長佳龍：這太珍貴了，趕快把它照起來。"],["陳委員永康：因為這是已經校正過的，我們也希望將來我提供更大的範圖給您做參考，我們也要了解在仁愛礁起衝突，那個仁愛礁到底在哪裡？是什麼現況？我們提供進一步的分析。至於黃岩島的部分，因為是內政部公布了，外交部要有自己的立場，本席在仲裁庭判決之前，也透過荷蘭的國防部長安排，所以我邀了當年的代表周台竹，我們也到現場去了解這個狀況，後續產生的問題，今天因為時間有限，我們把這個建言再回饋給外交部。"],["林部長佳龍：太好了，謝謝。"],["陳委員永康：各位再看這裡面有個東西，外交部可能要做一點study，在1898年美國跟西班牙有美西戰爭，後來他們簽了一個巴黎停火協議，這個協議裡面包括把古巴、關島及其他的島礁，包括菲律賓的這些島礁，美國給2,000萬美金做調停，但是他把管轄權就歸給美國，在二戰以後，菲律賓才獨立，在當年簽的協議第三條裡面，部長，您看這個虛線就是涵蓋的範圍。"],["林部長佳龍：是！"],["陳委員永康：這個涵蓋的範圍，仁愛礁是在外面的，同樣的黃岩島也在外面，這是歷史，我們不去吵誰對誰錯，但這個故事可能我們需要了解一下。這個圖我們放更大了，看到黃岩島、看到仁愛礁，太平島在中間，這個框框就是1898年美西停火在巴黎協議講的那個界線，我們希望了解一下，美國支付2,000萬美元，等於買了菲律賓的主權，後面1900年又再付10萬美元做一個補充。","這個是今天早上七點半在太平島周遭，我們也發現離岸很近大概1,000公尺有個不明目標，它把信號關掉，在外側也有，將來我們可能要建議海巡要用無人機出去看，這個要了解一下。最後，我們的經濟海域是用內政部勾劃的框架，中間重疊的黃色陰影區，就是上次菲律賓跟日本他們在談並沒有邀我們談的，如果我們將來提供這些圖給條法司做參考，在做論述方面上，要有我們自己的立場，條法的細節就不講了，最主要就是各位看一下右邊的沖之鳥礁，日本因為劃了200浬經濟海域，所以我們的漁民到那裡，這一段我不談日本在國際法上是不是雙標，但是保護漁民的時候，我想我們外交部在這個地方要爭取保護漁民的利益，同樣海巡署也希望能夠透過管道跟日本的海巡做溝通，我今天報告到這邊，請部長做一些回應。"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝委員用可視化的圖表展示，讓我們大家可以一目了然，首先真的非常感謝，我們也學了很多。確實不管是主權或漁權，我們的主張是很清楚、要不斷地宣示。另外，對爭議要怎麼解決，我們是主張用和平的方法，在爭議解決前，還是有共同的利益，這個時候怎麼樣擱置爭議、共同開發？臺灣領有這些島或者是周邊海域，我們是不是要扮演一個建設性的角色？不管是人道救援或者是災難防救，乃至於科研，都是比較正向的，我們希望用這樣的角色來參與。臺灣不能被排除在外，被排除在外我們都不承認，這是基於我們自己的國家利益嘛！但是我們怎麼去跟他們交涉，比如說日本跟菲律賓之間他們有交涉，我們跟他們之間也有交涉，當然還有一些未交涉完的事項，所以我們的立場要表達，作為後續可以持續參與爭端解決跟協商，我們有一個主體的角色。"],["陳委員永康：剛剛部長您講的就是國家的核心利益，這個是沒有折衷妥協的；但是區域的利益有折衷，要溝通協商，這是很重要的。最主要就是不能夠脫鉤斷鏈，一定要跟這些國家……即便有局部利益的小衝突，都要溝通、化解，以區域安全的共同利益為主要目標，大家來溝通，這個部分要大家努力。謝謝，加油！"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請王義川委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-35-28","speakers":["馬文君","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳永康","王義川","林楚茵","黃建賓","王安祥","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","許忠信","鄭正鈐","林倩綺","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","黃仁","沈伯洋"],"page_start":151,"meetingDate":["2026-07-22"],"gazette_id":"1156601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「我國近年針對南海主權與法律地位之國際宣傳實績成效暨如何應對\n周邊國家擴大主權國際宣傳之具體反制策略」，併請海洋委員會、大陸委員會列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1156601_00015"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}