{"error":false,"id":["170627"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170627,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170627","日期":"2026-07-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-19-22","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":22,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-22T09:50:26+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-22T09:58:19+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:53","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7469000803f9b6aad185342b0d221b3e4220b467350b4647b68ab154ef13fb3fdae08b56ec4be6015ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"呂玉玲","委員發言時間":"09:50:26 - 09:58:19","會議時間":"2026-07-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查：\n（一）\t本院委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）\t本院委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「能源管理法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）\t本院委員蔡其昌等19人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）\t本院委員鍾佳濱等20人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（五）\t本院委員邱議瑩等17人擬具「能源管理法增訂第十九條之二及第二十七條之一條文草案」案。\n二、審查：\n（六）\t行政院函請審議「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」。\n（七）\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）\t本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「能源管理法增訂第十九條之二及第二十七條之一條文草案」案。\n（九）\t本院委員徐欣瑩等16人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十）\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「能源管理法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）\t本院委員楊瓊瓔等23人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）\t本院委員陳亭妃等20人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）\t本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。（詢答）\n（第十三案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查。））","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.23346875,"end":0.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.20596875,"end":15.285968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.555968750000002,"end":17.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.395343750000002,"end":18.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.36471875,"end":24.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.38159375,"end":25.090343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.360343750000002,"end":25.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.507843750000003,"end":91.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.658468750000004,"end":35.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.59409375,"end":68.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.32471875,"end":118.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.44284375000001,"end":92.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.97409375000001,"end":94.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.92721875000001,"end":97.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.79471875,"end":107.91284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.08034375000001,"end":146.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.70846875000001,"end":119.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":122.08784375,"end":122.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.21284375000002,"end":132.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":138.99659375000002,"end":139.01346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.01346875000002,"end":139.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":139.03034375000001,"end":139.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.04721875,"end":139.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":146.03346875,"end":155.38221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.23909375000002,"end":154.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":155.75346875,"end":156.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":156.95159375,"end":168.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.20471875,"end":158.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.78659375,"end":160.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.15721875,"end":177.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":176.20596875,"end":178.58534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.14659375000002,"end":196.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":178.70346875,"end":179.00721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":179.61471875,"end":180.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.76159375,"end":185.36909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.86096875,"end":253.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.98846875,"end":245.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.29221875000002,"end":245.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.26971875,"end":254.80971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.55221875,"end":263.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.02346875,"end":265.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.05284375,"end":265.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.63909375000003,"end":268.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":268.02284375,"end":273.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.24596875000003,"end":271.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":273.70971875000004,"end":286.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":286.65284375000005,"end":292.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.80409375,"end":292.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.12034375,"end":292.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.22159375,"end":300.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.16596875000005,"end":297.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.27971875000003,"end":298.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.19096875,"end":300.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.87846875,"end":300.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":301.51971875000004,"end":301.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.55346875000004,"end":303.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.03846875,"end":303.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.59534375000004,"end":303.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.62909375000004,"end":314.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.05909375000005,"end":307.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.61159375,"end":307.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.66534375000003,"end":315.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":315.00284375,"end":323.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":324.36846875000003,"end":326.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.96721875000003,"end":371.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":327.91221875,"end":328.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":330.47721875,"end":330.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.96659375,"end":331.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.75096875,"end":334.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKE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謝謝主席 我們請公務長"},{"start":17.38,"end":19.38,"text":"請進行公務長"},{"start":19.38,"end":31.299999999999997,"text":"台積電它現在是我們全球半導體供應鏈的最重要的資助"},{"start":31.299999999999997,"end":34.62,"text":"也是我們台灣最具有競爭力的跨國的企業"},{"start":34.62,"end":40.7,"text":"那台積電的每一項投資的決策都不僅是牽動著企業它本身的一個發展"},{"start":40.7,"end":47.5,"text":"那也是這個經連代工的這個掌握先進製程的一個技術"},{"start":47.5,"end":56.3,"text":"尤其是攸關著我們台灣整個產業的佈局和國家經濟的安全是非常的重要"},{"start":56.3,"end":64.06,"text":"那尤其是近年來我們全球的對於AI人工智慧的需求跟整個後續的擴大"},{"start":64.06,"end":68.53999999999999,"text":"連帶能夠提升了整個晶片的這個重要性"},{"start":68.53999999999999,"end":74.3,"text":"那所以說台積電它在我們世界上各國都有去投資"},{"start":74.94,"end":78.06,"text":"那本期特別要提到的就是說在美國的部分"},{"start":78.06,"end":82.62,"text":"在去年的時候它有在投資加碼了一千億嘛"},{"start":82.62,"end":86.86,"text":"那在今年他們的法說會之後它又再加碼了這個一千億"},{"start":86.86,"end":91.1,"text":"這個加碼這部分的話有先經過我們投審會的投審嗎"},{"start":91.1,"end":92.14,"text":"有送來投審嗎"},{"start":92.14,"end":96.86,"text":"它這個只是宣布它的一些未來的投資的計畫跟方案"},{"start":96.86,"end":100.14,"text":"可是美國認為這個是既定事實啦"},{"start":100.14,"end":103.1,"text":"它實際要投資它會送案子給我們"},{"start":103.17999999999999,"end":105.41999999999999,"text":"所以它只是說一說而已也不會實際投資"},{"start":105.41999999999999,"end":109.5,"text":"沒有啦它已經法說會會這樣說它應該會執行啦"},{"start":109.5,"end":114.22,"text":"這個是在法說會裡面這樣的宣布它不會去執行"},{"start":114.22,"end":117.5,"text":"只是說它案子送過來我們可能會審查"},{"start":117.5,"end":119.5,"text":"法說會說了就會去執行"},{"start":119.5,"end":122.22,"text":"因為是魏董親自宣布的"},{"start":122.22,"end":125.02,"text":"那所以說一定要送來我們投審會"},{"start":125.02,"end":125.97999999999999,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":125.97999999999999,"end":132.22,"text":"因為台積電它是整個掌控著全世界的這個半導體的這個龍頭"},{"start":132.7,"end":138.94,"text":"所以它的最重要的這個技術關鍵技術的話我們要把關"},{"start":138.94,"end":143.26,"text":"因為外界大家會擔心我們的關鍵技術會不會外流出去"},{"start":143.26,"end":145.34,"text":"會不會讓我們台灣的經濟被淘溝"},{"start":145.34,"end":147.74,"text":"整個供應鏈會不會下滑掉"},{"start":147.74,"end":148.94,"text":"這個都是很重要的"},{"start":148.94,"end":152.94,"text":"我們審查的基準一定是最新進的技術是留在台灣"},{"start":152.94,"end":153.74,"text":"最新進"},{"start":153.74,"end":154.46,"text":"那現在不是"},{"start":154.46,"end":156.94,"text":"最大的量一定要在台灣"},{"start":156.94,"end":161.02,"text":"那安奈米不是已經在美國要自成了嗎"},{"start":161.02,"end":163.02,"text":"它要相對投資在台灣"},{"start":163.02,"end":164.14000000000001,"text":"要比國安要多"},{"start":164.14000000000001,"end":167.18,"text":"所以我們投審一定要好好的把關"},{"start":167.18,"end":168.46,"text":"會把關嘛"},{"start":168.46,"end":170.70000000000002,"text":"所以不要說它已經在法說會說了"},{"start":170.70000000000002,"end":172.3,"text":"那事後要送進來的話"},{"start":172.3,"end":175.98000000000002,"text":"我們的投審不敢說不一定會同意"},{"start":175.98000000000002,"end":178.06,"text":"就是要把關"},{"start":178.06,"end":180.70000000000002,"text":"一定要把關鍵技術留在台灣"},{"start":180.70000000000002,"end":181.82000000000002,"text":"這個是影響"},{"start":181.82000000000002,"end":185.10000000000002,"text":"這個很重要會影響我們整個台灣的經濟的發展"},{"start":185.10000000000002,"end":187.02,"text":"整個供應鏈都會被影響的"},{"start":187.02,"end":188.46,"text":"這個特別注意的"},{"start":188.54000000000002,"end":189.58,"text":"那接下來的話"},{"start":189.58,"end":191.02,"text":"我們要問一下能源部分"},{"start":191.02,"end":193.98000000000002,"text":"今天我們主席特別排到這個能源"},{"start":193.98000000000002,"end":199.98000000000002,"text":"那現在我們在台灣的再生能源的發展來看"},{"start":199.98000000000002,"end":203.66,"text":"整個結構都是以太陽能跟風力發電"},{"start":203.66,"end":206.3,"text":"為最主要的發電來源"},{"start":206.3,"end":209.82,"text":"那還有包括的水力或者是地熱部分"},{"start":209.82,"end":212.70000000000002,"text":"那尤其在這地熱的這個部分的話"},{"start":212.70000000000002,"end":217.66,"text":"因為地熱它是屬於全天候穩定的供電"},{"start":217.74,"end":219.66,"text":"機載型的這個再生能源"},{"start":219.66,"end":223.34,"text":"它不會受到日照或者是風力的影響"},{"start":223.34,"end":225.57999999999998,"text":"可以提升整個電網韌性"},{"start":225.57999999999998,"end":229.01999999999998,"text":"最具有這個重要的價值"},{"start":229.01999999999998,"end":234.38,"text":"而且台灣也是在位於環太平洋的地震帶上面"},{"start":234.38,"end":237.42,"text":"所以這個地熱的資源是相當豐富的"},{"start":237.42,"end":240.85999999999999,"text":"那而且我們行政院也在去年的時候"},{"start":240.85999999999999,"end":244.94,"text":"就有核定地熱減碳的旗艦行動計畫"},{"start":245.34,"end":247.57999999999998,"text":"行動計畫裡面特別有設定說"},{"start":247.57999999999998,"end":254.22,"text":"2030年我們的裝置容量要達到1.2GW這個目標"},{"start":254.22,"end":257.42,"text":"但是在這個目標之下的話"},{"start":257.42,"end":260.3,"text":"部長你今年的4月你特別公布說"},{"start":260.3,"end":265.1,"text":"這個恐怕只能達到200NW是這樣子嗎"},{"start":265.1,"end":268.3,"text":"它這個差距差了6倍"},{"start":268.3,"end":269.5,"text":"為什麼會這個原因"},{"start":269.5,"end":270.86,"text":"這個努力不變"},{"start":270.86,"end":273.65999999999997,"text":"努力不變結果改變"},{"start":274.46000000000004,"end":275.66,"text":"努力不變就是"},{"start":275.66,"end":278.22,"text":"當然現在好消息就是說"},{"start":278.22,"end":282.94,"text":"因為如果要達到比較高的這個裝置容量的話"},{"start":282.94,"end":284.86,"text":"一定要打到深層"},{"start":284.86,"end":286.54,"text":"而且那個熱度要夠"},{"start":286.54,"end":288.94000000000005,"text":"那如果都用淺層的話"},{"start":288.94000000000005,"end":290.70000000000005,"text":"我們目前大部分都是淺層"},{"start":290.70000000000005,"end":292.3,"text":"所以我們現在有什麼瓶頸"},{"start":292.3,"end":295.58000000000004,"text":"那現在我們已經有打到一口深層的部分"},{"start":295.58000000000004,"end":296.70000000000005,"text":"那熱度已經夠了"},{"start":296.70000000000005,"end":297.26000000000005,"text":"那我們現在"},{"start":297.26000000000005,"end":298.54,"text":"有成功碳刊的部分"},{"start":298.54,"end":301.5,"text":"就在宜蘭的東山"},{"start":301.58,"end":303.58,"text":"這個一號這個碳刊已經成功了"},{"start":303.58,"end":305.34,"text":"對就是熱度已經夠了"},{"start":305.34,"end":306.14,"text":"那我們現在就是要"},{"start":306.14,"end":307.26,"text":"就是一座成功"},{"start":307.26,"end":308.3,"text":"還其他的呢"},{"start":308.3,"end":309.34,"text":"多打幾口"},{"start":309.34,"end":312.22,"text":"可以確定它的這個裡面的容量是多少"},{"start":312.22,"end":315.18,"text":"是才可以估計它的這個價值"},{"start":315.18,"end":315.9,"text":"對好"},{"start":315.9,"end":317.26,"text":"這個至少是一個好消息"},{"start":317.26,"end":318.94,"text":"如果這個深層有的話"},{"start":318.94,"end":323.02,"text":"那就是一個很好的一個深層的這個成果"},{"start":323.02,"end":326.78,"text":"那就這個目標也許我們可以"},{"start":326.78,"end":328.22,"text":"我們繼續探勘"},{"start":328.22,"end":330.38,"text":"開發更多的成功的例子"},{"start":330.38,"end":334.14,"text":"因為這個地熱是不受日照跟風力的影響"},{"start":334.14,"end":336.21999999999997,"text":"比較穩定的供電的部分"},{"start":336.21999999999997,"end":337.98,"text":"那我們繼續來努力"},{"start":337.98,"end":341.26,"text":"那還有另外就是我們風力發電這個部分"},{"start":341.26,"end":344.7,"text":"那風力發電有分成我們離岸的風電"},{"start":344.7,"end":346.7,"text":"還有我們陸役的風電"},{"start":346.7,"end":349.74,"text":"那最近我們要開發這一塊的話"},{"start":349.74,"end":352.78,"text":"是因為我們這個離岸風電的這個"},{"start":352.78,"end":356.06,"text":"我們三之一這個區域這個開發這部分"},{"start":356.06,"end":357.26,"text":"三之一三之二的話"},{"start":357.26,"end":358.14,"text":"因為成本"},{"start":358.38,"end":359.9,"text":"物價的提高"},{"start":359.9,"end":362.38,"text":"很多產業都跟我們解約了"},{"start":362.38,"end":364.21999999999997,"text":"所以這個不被看好了"},{"start":364.21999999999997,"end":366.3,"text":"那我們現在看到就是說"},{"start":366.3,"end":368.78,"text":"我們可以在努力的部分就是"},{"start":368.78,"end":371.74,"text":"有浮動式的離岸風電"},{"start":371.74,"end":373.41999999999996,"text":"是不是我們要努力這部分"},{"start":373.41999999999996,"end":375.74,"text":"報告委員因為我們在這個"},{"start":375.74,"end":376.38,"text":"離岸風電"},{"start":376.38,"end":377.26,"text":"你在推動嗎"},{"start":377.26,"end":378.21999999999997,"text":"對要推動"},{"start":378.21999999999997,"end":378.62,"text":"要推動"},{"start":378.62,"end":379.82,"text":"因為離岸風電的部分"},{"start":379.82,"end":381.58,"text":"它有一個近比較靠近"},{"start":381.58,"end":383.9,"text":"它水深比較淺的部分"},{"start":383.9,"end":385.5,"text":"那可以用固定式的裝"},{"start":385.5,"end":386.46,"text":"就可以用浮動"},{"start":386.46,"end":387.58,"text":"現在"},{"start":387.82,"end":390.21999999999997,"text":"但是往外海去推的時候"},{"start":390.21999999999997,"end":391.41999999999996,"text":"那水很深"},{"start":391.41999999999996,"end":393.26,"text":"你沒有辦法再用固定裝了"},{"start":393.26,"end":394.53999999999996,"text":"但是用浮動式的"},{"start":394.53999999999996,"end":397.65999999999997,"text":"那你們具體的時程跟裝置容量的這個目標"},{"start":397.65999999999997,"end":399.09999999999997,"text":"我們現在就是浮動式的"},{"start":399.09999999999997,"end":401.18,"text":"它要有一個示範性先做"},{"start":401.18,"end":403.65999999999997,"text":"但是固定式的持續在做"},{"start":403.65999999999997,"end":405.9,"text":"應該提到三之一三之二"},{"start":405.9,"end":407.09999999999997,"text":"有一些風場試出來"},{"start":407.09999999999997,"end":408.7,"text":"我們會併到33"},{"start":408.7,"end":411.65999999999997,"text":"那後續的還會往前走這樣子"},{"start":411.65999999999997,"end":412.7,"text":"部長你這樣講的話"},{"start":412.7,"end":413.97999999999996,"text":"好像你們都有在推動"},{"start":414.62,"end":416.53999999999996,"text":"為什麼在我們今年的這個"},{"start":417.26000000000005,"end":420.78000000000003,"text":"全國電力資源供需報告裡面"},{"start":420.78000000000003,"end":423.1,"text":"你們並沒有說有一個說法出來"},{"start":424.22,"end":426.54,"text":"在報告裡面你們並沒有說呢"},{"start":427.42,"end":428.22,"text":"那個這個是"},{"start":428.22,"end":429.58000000000004,"text":"你沒有把它放進去"},{"start":429.58000000000004,"end":430.78000000000003,"text":"你並沒有把它放進去"},{"start":430.78000000000003,"end":432.38,"text":"那個是電力供需"},{"start":432.38,"end":435.74,"text":"它只會就整個在生年發展的趨勢講一下"},{"start":435.74,"end":438.06,"text":"那剛剛委員提到那個離岸風電部分"},{"start":438.06,"end":440.3,"text":"我們另外會有別的計畫再公布給大家"},{"start":440.3,"end":441.34000000000003,"text":"讓大家知道"},{"start":441.34000000000003,"end":442.94,"text":"所以有在推動嗎"},{"start":442.94,"end":443.90000000000003,"text":"有有有"},{"start":443.90000000000003,"end":444.22,"text":"那個"},{"start":446.70000000000005,"end":448.14000000000004,"text":"不是只是在概念而已"},{"start":448.14000000000004,"end":449.18,"text":"我們很快的會公布"},{"start":449.18,"end":450.54,"text":"還沒有計算時程"},{"start":450.54,"end":454.70000000000005,"text":"我們很快的會公布說明這個中長程的這個計畫"},{"start":454.70000000000005,"end":456.70000000000005,"text":"就是離岸風電的部分"},{"start":456.70000000000005,"end":460.3,"text":"因為我們昨天明天那個總統府就會開這個"},{"start":460.3,"end":462.06,"text":"所以會把時程跟這個"},{"start":462.06,"end":464.38,"text":"裝置的容量這目標都會訂出來"},{"start":464.38,"end":468.22,"text":"對對對明天因為總統府會開這個氣候變遷的委員會"},{"start":468.22,"end":470.22,"text":"委員會完以後就會對外說明"},{"start":470.22,"end":471.02000000000004,"text":"好"},{"start":471.02000000000004,"end":472.86,"text":"那努力的來做了"},{"start":472.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