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相關的一些"},{"start":385.16,"end":386.16,"text":"利息補貼"},{"start":386.16,"end":388.16,"text":"減輕他一些負擔"},{"start":388.16,"end":389.16,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":389.16,"end":390.16,"text":"我們也算過這個"},{"start":390.16,"end":391.16,"text":"金額"},{"start":391.16,"end":392.16,"text":"他會去審核"},{"start":392.16,"end":393.16,"text":"那至於這個"},{"start":393.16,"end":394.16,"text":"金額"},{"start":394.16,"end":395.16,"text":"他會去審核"},{"start":395.16,"end":396.16,"text":"那至於這個"},{"start":396.16,"end":397.16,"text":"金額"},{"start":397.16,"end":398.16,"text":"我們算過這個金額"},{"start":398.16,"end":399.16,"text":"大概如果以六年補貼"},{"start":399.16,"end":400.16,"text":"一千萬的貸款"},{"start":400.16,"end":401.16,"text":"政府相關的補貼"},{"start":401.16,"end":403.16,"text":"就是一個人就是二十二萬"},{"start":403.16,"end":405.16,"text":"限制他不准移轉"},{"start":405.16,"end":406.16,"text":"不准貸款"},{"start":406.16,"end":407.16,"text":"不准去買股票"},{"start":407.16,"end":408.16,"text":"我覺得這已經限制到"},{"start":408.16,"end":411.16,"text":"施人財產權的一個處分運用"},{"start":411.16,"end":412.16,"text":"簡單來講"},{"start":412.16,"end":415.16,"text":"你的答案就是告訴我們"},{"start":415.16,"end":417.16,"text":"政府沒有幫我房子"},{"start":417.16,"end":419.16,"text":"甚至於說"},{"start":419.16,"end":420.16,"text":"就你購"},{"start":420.16,"end":421.16,"text":"ALET"},{"start":421.16,"end":422.16,"text":"購"},{"start":422.16,"end":424.16,"text":"他愛怎麼樣就怎麼樣"},{"start":424.16,"end":425.16,"text":"他可以拿去做二代"},{"start":425.16,"end":426.16,"text":"拿資金"},{"start":426.16,"end":428.16,"text":"拿到的去炒股"},{"start":428.16,"end":429.16,"text":"你們也沒辦法去"},{"start":429.16,"end":430.16,"text":"二十"},{"start":430.16,"end":431.16,"text":"不是有辦法沒有辦法"},{"start":431.16,"end":433.16,"text":"而是要不要這樣做"},{"start":433.16,"end":434.16,"text":"第一個就是說"},{"start":434.16,"end":435.16,"text":"銀行在貸二胎的時候"},{"start":435.16,"end":437.16,"text":"第一個利率一定會比較高"},{"start":437.16,"end":438.16,"text":"第二個他的房子"},{"start":438.16,"end":441.16,"text":"必須要有足夠的擔保價值"},{"start":441.16,"end":442.16,"text":"才可能做"},{"start":442.16,"end":444.16,"text":"這是銀行在貸款的時候"},{"start":444.16,"end":446.16,"text":"本身就會做嚴格的審核的"},{"start":446.16,"end":447.16,"text":"我知道啦"},{"start":447.16,"end":449.16,"text":"但是可見得"},{"start":449.16,"end":451.16,"text":"目前來講就是可以啦"},{"start":451.16,"end":452.16,"text":"我們外界"},{"start":452.16,"end":455.16,"text":"所以外界的擔心是有道理的"},{"start":455.16,"end":457.16,"text":"外界的擔心是有道理的"},{"start":457.16,"end":459.16,"text":"這是我要強調的重點"},{"start":459.16,"end":461.16,"text":"你們去研究一下"},{"start":461.16,"end":462.16,"text":"當然委員這樣的擔心"},{"start":462.16,"end":464.16,"text":"也是要呼籲這個公務的民眾"},{"start":464.16,"end":465.16,"text":"因為你現在來講的話"},{"start":465.16,"end":467.16,"text":"投資要有審慎的"},{"start":467.16,"end":468.16,"text":"要有審慎的事務"},{"start":468.16,"end":470.16,"text":"請問你那個行政安"},{"start":470.16,"end":472.16,"text":"政府的利息補貼多少錢"},{"start":472.16,"end":474.16,"text":"政府的利息補貼"},{"start":474.16,"end":475.16,"text":"我們算過"},{"start":475.16,"end":476.16,"text":"以二十二"},{"start":476.16,"end":479.16,"text":"以他貸款一千萬來看的話"},{"start":479.16,"end":481.16,"text":"補貼大概是二十二萬"},{"start":481.16,"end":483.16,"text":"五千六年來說"},{"start":483.16,"end":485.16,"text":"他是貸一千萬的話"},{"start":485.16,"end":487.16,"text":"那麼他是二十二萬五千"},{"start":487.16,"end":489.16,"text":"就是他六年"},{"start":489.16,"end":490.16,"text":"政府給予補助"},{"start":490.16,"end":492.16,"text":"全部十七萬戶乘過來多少錢"},{"start":492.16,"end":494.16,"text":"全部十七萬戶的"},{"start":494.16,"end":496.16,"text":"全部的金額我們要再"},{"start":496.16,"end":500.16,"text":"十七萬戶乘以六萬是不是"},{"start":500.16,"end":502.16,"text":"你剛剛講六萬還是六十萬"},{"start":502.16,"end":504.16,"text":"什麼六萬還是六十萬"},{"start":504.16,"end":505.16,"text":"你剛剛講六萬不是"},{"start":505.16,"end":506.16,"text":"你說"},{"start":506.16,"end":509.16,"text":"我說他如果貸一千萬的話"},{"start":509.16,"end":510.16,"text":"六年"},{"start":510.16,"end":512.1600000000001,"text":"我們就前三年"},{"start":512.16,"end":514.16,"text":"利息補貼到一點"},{"start":514.16,"end":516.16,"text":"就是說他的利率是用一點七七五"},{"start":516.16,"end":519.16,"text":"後面每半每一年調升半碼"},{"start":519.16,"end":520.16,"text":"所以整個六年來看"},{"start":520.16,"end":522.16,"text":"政府給予他的利息補貼"},{"start":522.16,"end":524.16,"text":"六年就是二十二萬五千"},{"start":524.16,"end":527.16,"text":"二十二萬乘以十七萬戶"},{"start":527.16,"end":529.16,"text":"這個就這樣就這樣算"},{"start":529.16,"end":531.16,"text":"難道不是十二十"},{"start":531.16,"end":532.16,"text":"就大概快四百億"},{"start":532.16,"end":533.16,"text":"但是每一個人"},{"start":533.16,"end":534.16,"text":"不是都貸到一千萬"},{"start":534.16,"end":536.16,"text":"對啦我說平均嘛"},{"start":536.16,"end":538.16,"text":"所以每一個人都貸到一千萬"},{"start":538.16,"end":540.16,"text":"等於六年"},{"start":540.16,"end":542.16,"text":"我們政府要貼了大概四百億左右"},{"start":542.16,"end":545.16,"text":"所以六年等於一年"},{"start":545.16,"end":547.16,"text":"一年的話就等於是"},{"start":547.16,"end":552.16,"text":"六年的話等於一年差不多七十億左右"},{"start":552.16,"end":554.16,"text":"十七萬裡面百分之四十"},{"start":554.16,"end":558.16,"text":"百分之十七是低於貸款五百萬的"},{"start":558.16,"end":561.16,"text":"五百萬到百萬大概有百分之三十"},{"start":561.16,"end":564.16,"text":"所以超過的其實八百萬以上"},{"start":564.16,"end":566.16,"text":"百分之四十四"},{"start":566.16,"end":568.16,"text":"再問你一個東西"},{"start":568.16,"end":572.16,"text":"最近這個股市減少這麼多"},{"start":572.16,"end":576.16,"text":"這些資金這個股市成交量"},{"start":576.16,"end":579.16,"text":"明顯的少於一兆"},{"start":579.16,"end":582.16,"text":"那這個東西原來都上兆"},{"start":582.16,"end":583.16,"text":"現在的低於一兆"},{"start":583.16,"end":584.16,"text":"這個資金跑去哪裡"},{"start":584.16,"end":586.16,"text":"你們有沒有追一下"},{"start":586.16,"end":588.16,"text":"會不會跑去訪視有沒有"},{"start":590.16,"end":592.16,"text":"這個恐怕這個應該是金管會"},{"start":592.16,"end":594.16,"text":"跟金行去追"},{"start":594.16,"end":595.16,"text":"不是財政部去追"},{"start":595.16,"end":597.16,"text":"你們沒有去注意到這個東西"},{"start":597.16,"end":600.16,"text":"最近這兩天的股市的成交量"},{"start":600.16,"end":602.16,"text":"昨天來說是比較低"},{"start":602.16,"end":604.16,"text":"昨天低了八千多億而已"},{"start":604.16,"end":608.16,"text":"昨天整體來看我們以七月份來看"},{"start":608.16,"end":611.16,"text":"整體的七月份是一兆三千"},{"start":611.16,"end":613.16,"text":"一兆三千億"},{"start":613.16,"end":616.16,"text":"七月份的十四天平均數是一兆三千億"},{"start":616.16,"end":618.16,"text":"那昨天五月二十一號是"},{"start":618.16,"end":622.16,"text":"如果加上上市的新貴是一兆零兩百一十八億"},{"start":622.16,"end":625.16,"text":"昨天只有八千多億"},{"start":625.16,"end":627.16,"text":"我們這邊是看上市上櫃"},{"start":627.16,"end":629.16,"text":"全部是未上市櫃"},{"start":629.16,"end":631.16,"text":"你們去注意吧"},{"start":631.16,"end":634.16,"text":"我們希望你在資金的放出來"},{"start":634.16,"end":637.16,"text":"要注意到對於整個的金融市場"},{"start":637.16,"end":640.16,"text":"因為現在政府的M1B又增加"},{"start":640.16,"end":642.16,"text":"所以要去管控一下"},{"start":642.16,"end":644.16,"text":"我認為財政部還是有這個責任"},{"start":644.16,"end":646.16,"text":"謝謝委員的建議謝謝"},{"start":646.16,"end":648.16,"text":"謝謝賴事邦委員"},{"start":648.16,"end":650.16,"text":"下一位請郭國文委員質詢"},{"start":655.16,"end":656.16,"text":"謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:36:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:36:09.024000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進，有請財政部的莊部長。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T09:36:09.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:36:10.525714+08:00","text":"請財政部莊部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:36:14.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:36:15.006667+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:36:15.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:36:16.460000+08:00","text":"部長早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:36:16.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:36:19.067692+08:00","text":"我剛才的提案說明，你有聽嘛，對不對？對。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:36:19.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:36:37.066667+08:00","text":"我想把兩年改成三年，第二個是有關於這一次，因為是國安的問題，少子化這麼嚴重，這一部分可不可以就我們中央買單，幾十億而已，也沒有多少錢，可以嗎？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:36:38.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:36:53.445714+08:00","text":"委員，第一個，這個應該是跟住宅法同樣的一個所謂婚育家庭，因為住宅法裡面有相關的規定，這個我們採取一致，因為是同樣的，就採取一致的規定，跟委員報告為什麼會是兩年？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:36:53.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:36:56.460000+08:00","text":"新婚家庭的兩年，另外就是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:36:56.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:36:58.160000+08:00","text":"我直接問你重點，中央要不要買單？","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:36:58.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:36:59.374286+08:00","text":"不要地方買單。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:36:59.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:37:04.285000+08:00","text":"中央，其實這個我們剛剛所提到減稅利益大概50到75億……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:37:04.285000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:37:05.285000+08:00","text":"也不算很多錢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:37:04.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:37:30.460000+08:00","text":"其實以地方政府現在的財力來說，遠遠比……有很大的改變，我剛才提過，就是財劃法修正以後，115年比114年成長百分之九十二點幾，而且這個部分，今年可能還有第13期的分配，所以我想地方也會和我們一起共同的努力，來解決少子女化的問題。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:37:33.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:37:49.874286+08:00","text":"部長，你不要偷換概念，我們都知道，你說我們給地方四千多億，問題是你們拿回來一般補助款跟計畫型補助款兩千六百多億，實際上，你只有給地方增加一千多億，帳要這樣算。","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:37:50.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:37:53.960000+08:00","text":"第二個，我把持有改成居住，可以吧？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:37:54.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:37:58.874286+08:00","text":"放寬，這是不一樣的概念。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:37:59.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:38:02.060000+08:00","text":"不是，第一個，您所謂的居住也許是……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:38:03.374286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:38:14.387273+08:00","text":"就是年輕的小孩子居住在他爸爸的房子，這個叫居住，他戶籍設在他爸爸的房子……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:38:15.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:38:20.493333+08:00","text":"第一個，要先看它是不是屬於自用住宅……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:38:20.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:38:22.374286+08:00","text":"自用，當然自用。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:38:22.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:38:26.374286+08:00","text":"那這個範圍就更大了，我想要再重新評估一下影響的部分……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:38:26.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:38:37.760000+08:00","text":"你們去評估一下，這個才有意義，你要年輕人……你知道年輕人買房子不容易，但是年輕人先住爸爸的房子，對不對？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:38:38.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:38:46.760000+08:00","text":"直系親屬的房子，爸爸或者媽媽的房子，老實講，我們給他這樣的減免是合理的啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:38:47.326667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:39:12.326667+08:00","text":"我們再看大家關心的，你推出新青安3.0，其實外界有很多的批評：第一個，他們認為你們替建商hold住下跌中的房價；第二個，你的排富訂在年所得200萬以下，等同沒有門檻，為什麼？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:39:12.932727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:39:18.374286+08:00","text":"三分之二的人沒有達到平均薪資4.8萬，4.8萬是什麼概念？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:39:18.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:39:57.460000+08:00","text":"我乘以13.5個月，他大概還不到70萬，我算70萬好了，夫妻兩個都這樣子也就140萬，三分之二的人根本達不到你200萬的門檻，所以幾乎等於沒有門檻；再來，你把他放寬到50歲，貸30年，80歲還在還房貸，你有沒有覺得你這個新青安3.0結果等於是把錢進一步的放到市場裡面？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:39:58.802857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:40:11.993333+08:00","text":"老實講，進一步之後就會有我所關心的一個問題，他會去二貸或怎麼樣，他會去炒房耶，會不會？","quality":0.763},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:40:12.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:40:45.660000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，第一個，新青安的政策目的是我們協助沒有自有住宅的民眾購買房屋自住使用，沒有所謂的替建商來hold住他的市場，我覺得沒有這個意思，我覺得我們是支持青年來實現購屋安心成家的一個目的，這沒有變，至於2.0的部分，實施近三年以來，各界的相關意見我們都有聽取，所以在3.0的部分做了相關的一些調整，有更精進，我想跟委員所提到……","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:40:46.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:40:46.910000+08:00","text":"回答我，新青安做了幾戶？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:40:48.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:40:50.326667+08:00","text":"第一個，我們也找了新青安……幾戶？","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:40:50.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:40:50.993333+08:00","text":"總共幾戶？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:40:51.326667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:40:52.326667+08:00","text":"超過17萬戶。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:40:52.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:40:55.060000+08:00","text":"17萬戶，總共放多少金額出去？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:40:56.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:40:58.410000+08:00","text":"核貸的大概是一兆多。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:40:58.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:40:58.993333+08:00","text":"一兆多嘛！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:40:59.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:41:12.374286+08:00","text":"這一兆多，然後你要怎麼防止他這個錢拿去二胎，現在四貸同堂，用這個去貸款，然後把資金投入股市？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:41:12.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:41:13.460000+08:00","text":"你要怎麼防止？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:41:16.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:41:50.993333+08:00","text":"因為泛公股是財政部管的，要怎麼遏止用新青安借到的錢、拿到的資金……你說這個沒有，這已經設定了，不是設定，他一樣房子登記，比如說我去買，這個錢是在我的名下，我可以再去借錢，我借錢投入股市，借個100萬、50萬都沒關係，我現在哈錢哈得要死，我看股市會漲，我把這個借的錢投入股市，過一陣子很快就還掉了，你要怎麼遏止？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:41:51.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:41:54.410000+08:00","text":"你告訴我，有沒有這種防止機制？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:41:54.826667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:42:56.910000+08:00","text":"關於新青安，第一個，他買房子然後抵押設定，至於這個房子能不能有足夠的價值再去做二胎，這個銀行會去審核，至於他貸出來的金額去做什麼樣一個用途，他只是貸了一個新青安，買了一間房子，對於他這個房子後續的部分，我們還要去做這樣子的一個管控，說他不可以去買股票、不可以再做貸款，委員，這個財產權基本上是屬於他的，我們要做這樣的一個限制的話，這個是涉及到法律的部分，因為財產權是他私人的，只是政府在他前期購買的時候，給予相關的一些利息補貼，減輕他一些負擔，這個部分我們也算過，這個金額大概如果以6年補貼1,000萬的貸款，政府相關的補貼一個人就是22萬，限制他不准移轉、不准貸款、不准去買股票，我覺得這已經限制到私人財產權的處分運用。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:42:57.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:43:15.017143+08:00","text":"所以簡單來講，你的答案就是告訴我們，政府沒有辦法防止，甚至於就let it go，他愛怎麼樣就怎麼樣，他可以拿去做二胎，資金拿到了去炒股，你們也沒有辦法去遏止。","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:43:16.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:43:31.796364+08:00","text":"不是有辦法或沒有辦法，而是要不要這樣做，第一個，銀行在貸二胎的時候，利率一定會比較高；第二個，他這個房子必須要有足夠的擔保價值才可能做，這是銀行在貸款的時候，本身就會做嚴格的審核。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:43:32.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:43:46.874286+08:00","text":"我知道啦，可見得目前來講就是可以啦，我們外界的擔心是有道理的，這是我要強調的重點，你們去研究一下……","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:43:47.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:43:52.874286+08:00","text":"當然委員這樣的擔心，也是要呼籲購屋的民眾投資要有審慎的思考……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:43:54.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:43:57.960000+08:00","text":"請問你新青安，政府的利息補貼多少錢？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:43:58.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:15.993333+08:00","text":"我們算過政府的利息補貼，以貸款1,000萬來看的話，補貼大概是22萬5,000，6年來說，如果他貸1,000萬的話，是22萬5,000，就是6年來，政府給予補助的部分。","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:16.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:17.993333+08:00","text":"全部17萬戶乘過來多少錢嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:19.302857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:21.937778+08:00","text":"17萬戶的全部金額，我們要另外再提供……","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:22.887273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:25.796364+08:00","text":"17萬戶乘以6萬，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:26.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:27.978182+08:00","text":"你剛剛講6萬還是60萬？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:28.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:29.937778+08:00","text":"什麼6萬還是60萬？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:30.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:31.660000+08:00","text":"你剛剛講6萬是不是？你說……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:32.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:49.560000+08:00","text":"沒有，我說他如果貸1,000萬的話，6年，我們就前3年利息補貼到……就是他的利率適用1.775%，後面每一年調升半碼，所以整個6年來看，政府給予他的利息補貼6年就是22萬5,000。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:51.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:52.860000+08:00","text":"22萬5,000乘以17萬戶嘛！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:54.271111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:56.017143+08:00","text":"就這樣算，難道不是嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:57.302857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:44:58.017143+08:00","text":"大概快400億啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:44:58.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:45:00.035000+08:00","text":"但不是每一個人都貸到1,000萬啦！","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:45:00.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:45:17.847500+08:00","text":"對啦，我說平均嘛，所以等於6年，我們政府要貼大概400億左右，除以6年，1年差不多70億左右。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:45:18.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:45:29.910000+08:00","text":"17萬裡面17%是低於貸款500萬的，500萬到800萬的大概有30%，所以超過800萬以上的大概54%。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:45:32.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:45:51.910000+08:00","text":"我再問你一個問題，最近股市成交量減少這麼多，股市成交量明顯少於1兆，原來是上兆，現在則低於1兆，這個資金跑去哪裡，你們有沒有追一下？","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:45:52.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:45:52.960000+08:00","text":"會不會跑去房市？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:45:56.826667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:01.017143+08:00","text":"這個應該是金管會跟央行去追，不是財政部去追。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:01.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:02.993333+08:00","text":"你們沒有注意到這個東西？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:03.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:07.910000+08:00","text":"當然這兩天的股市成交量，昨天來說是比較低，但是……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:08.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:09.960000+08:00","text":"昨天低啊，八千多億而已。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:11.874286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:27.949474+08:00","text":"我們以7月份來看，整體7月份是1兆3,000億，7月份14天平均數是1兆3,000億，昨天（7月21日）如果加上市、上櫃、興櫃是1兆218億，還是超過1兆。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:28.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:30.785000+08:00","text":"昨天只有八千多億喔！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:31.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:32.960000+08:00","text":"我們這邊是看上市、上櫃跟興櫃。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:32.960000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:33.960000+08:00","text":"你是加上櫃。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:33.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:34.874286+08:00","text":"全部，上市、上櫃，還有興櫃。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:35.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:36.493333+08:00","text":"你們去注意！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:36.493333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:37.493333+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:37.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:42.929231+08:00","text":"我們希望資金放出來，你也要注意到對於整個金融市場……當然。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:43.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:50.006154+08:00","text":"因為現在政府的M1B又增加，所以要去管控一下，我認為財政部還是有這個責任。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:50.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:51.937778+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員的建議，謝謝。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:52.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:53.874286+08:00","text":"謝謝賴士葆委員。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T09:46:54.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:46:55.978182+08:00","text":"下一位請郭國文委員質詢。","quality":1}]},"gazette":{"lineno":137,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（9時36分）謝謝主席以及各位先進，有請財政部的莊部長。"],["主席：請財政部莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：部長早安。我剛才的提案說明，你有聽嘛，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["賴委員士葆：我想把兩年改成三年，第二個是有關於這一次，因為是國安的問題，少子化這麼嚴重，這一部分可不可以就我們中央買單，幾十億而已，也沒有多少錢，可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，第一個，這個應該是跟住宅法同樣的一個所謂婚育家庭，因為住宅法裡面有相關的規定，這個我們採取一致，因為是同樣的，就採取一致的規定，跟委員報告為什麼會是兩年？新婚家庭的兩年，另外就是……"],["賴委員士葆：我直接問你重點，中央要不要買單？不要地方買單。"],["莊部長翠雲：中央，其實這個我們剛剛所提到減稅利益大概50到75億……"],["賴委員士葆：也不算很多錢。"],["莊部長翠雲：其實以地方政府現在的財力來說，遠遠比……有很大的改變，我剛才提過，就是財劃法修正以後，115年比114年成長百分之九十二點幾，而且這個部分，今年可能還有第13期的分配，所以我想地方也會和我們一起共同的努力，來解決少子女化的問題。"],["賴委員士葆：部長，你不要偷換概念，我們都知道，你說我們給地方四千多億，問題是你們拿回來一般補助款跟計畫型補助款兩千六百多億，實際上，你只有給地方增加一千多億，帳要這樣算。第二個，我把持有改成居住，可以吧？放寬，這是不一樣的概念。"],["莊部長翠雲：不是，第一個，您所謂的居住也許是……"],["賴委員士葆：就是年輕的小孩子居住在他爸爸的房子，這個叫居住，他戶籍設在他爸爸的房子……"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個，要先看它是不是屬於自用住宅……"],["賴委員士葆：自用，當然自用。"],["莊部長翠雲：那這個範圍就更大了，我想要再重新評估一下影響的部分……"],["賴委員士葆：你們去評估一下，這個才有意義，你要年輕人……你知道年輕人買房子不容易，但是年輕人先住爸爸的房子，對不對？直系親屬的房子，爸爸或者媽媽的房子，老實講，我們給他這樣的減免是合理的啦！","我們再看大家關心的，你推出新青安3.0，其實外界有很多的批評：第一個，他們認為你們替建商hold住下跌中的房價；第二個，你的排富訂在年所得200萬以下，等同沒有門檻，為什麼？三分之二的人沒有達到平均薪資4.8萬，4.8萬是什麼概念？我乘以13.5個月，他大概還不到70萬，我算70萬好了，夫妻兩個都這樣子也就140萬，三分之二的人根本達不到你200萬的門檻，所以幾乎等於沒有門檻；再來，你把他放寬到50歲，貸30年，80歲還在還房貸，你有沒有覺得你這個新青安3.0結果等於是把錢進一步的放到市場裡面？老實講，進一步之後就會有我所關心的一個問題，他會去二貸或怎麼樣，他會去炒房耶，會不會？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，第一個，新青安的政策目的是我們協助沒有自有住宅的民眾購買房屋自住使用，沒有所謂的替建商來hold住他的市場，我覺得沒有這個意思，我覺得我們是支持青年來實現購屋安心成家的一個目的，這沒有變，至於2.0的部分，實施近三年以來，各界的相關意見我們都有聽取，所以在3.0的部分做了相關的一些調整，有更精進，我想跟委員所提到……"],["賴委員士葆：回答我，新青安做了幾戶？"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個，我們也找了新青安……"],["賴委員士葆：幾戶？總共幾戶？"],["莊部長翠雲：超過17萬戶。"],["賴委員士葆：17萬戶，總共放多少金額出去？"],["莊部長翠雲：核貸的大概是一兆多。"],["賴委員士葆：一兆多嘛！這一兆多，然後你要怎麼防止他這個錢拿去二胎，現在四貸同堂，用這個去貸款，然後把資金投入股市？你要怎麼防止？因為泛公股是財政部管的，要怎麼遏止用新青安借到的錢、拿到的資金……你說這個沒有，這已經設定了，不是設定，他一樣房子登記，比如說我去買，這個錢是在我的名下，我可以再去借錢，我借錢投入股市，借個100萬、50萬都沒關係，我現在哈錢哈得要死，我看股市會漲，我把這個借的錢投入股市，過一陣子很快就還掉了，你要怎麼遏止？你告訴我，有沒有這種防止機制？"],["莊部長翠雲：關於新青安，第一個，他買房子然後抵押設定，至於這個房子能不能有足夠的價值再去做二胎，這個銀行會去審核，至於他貸出來的金額去做什麼樣一個用途，他只是貸了一個新青安，買了一間房子，對於他這個房子後續的部分，我們還要去做這樣子的一個管控，說他不可以去買股票、不可以再做貸款，委員，這個財產權基本上是屬於他的，我們要做這樣的一個限制的話，這個是涉及到法律的部分，因為財產權是他私人的，只是政府在他前期購買的時候，給予相關的一些利息補貼，減輕他一些負擔，這個部分我們也算過，這個金額大概如果以6年補貼1,000萬的貸款，政府相關的補貼一個人就是22萬，限制他不准移轉、不准貸款、不准去買股票，我覺得這已經限制到私人財產權的處分運用。"],["賴委員士葆：所以簡單來講，你的答案就是告訴我們，政府沒有辦法防止，甚至於就let it go，他愛怎麼樣就怎麼樣，他可以拿去做二胎，資金拿到了去炒股，你們也沒有辦法去遏止。"],["莊部長翠雲：不是有辦法或沒有辦法，而是要不要這樣做，第一個，銀行在貸二胎的時候，利率一定會比較高；第二個，他這個房子必須要有足夠的擔保價值才可能做，這是銀行在貸款的時候，本身就會做嚴格的審核。"],["賴委員士葆：我知道啦，可見得目前來講就是可以啦，我們外界的擔心是有道理的，這是我要強調的重點，你們去研究一下……"],["莊部長翠雲：當然委員這樣的擔心，也是要呼籲購屋的民眾投資要有審慎的思考……"],["賴委員士葆：請問你新青安，政府的利息補貼多少錢？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們算過政府的利息補貼，以貸款1,000萬來看的話，補貼大概是22萬5,000，6年來說，如果他貸1,000萬的話，是22萬5,000，就是6年來，政府給予補助的部分。"],["賴委員士葆：全部17萬戶乘過來多少錢嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：17萬戶的全部金額，我們要另外再提供……"],["賴委員士葆：17萬戶乘以6萬，是不是？你剛剛講6萬還是60萬？"],["莊部長翠雲：什麼6萬還是60萬？"],["賴委員士葆：你剛剛講6萬是不是？你說……"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，我說他如果貸1,000萬的話，6年，我們就前3年利息補貼到……就是他的利率適用1.775%，後面每一年調升半碼，所以整個6年來看，政府給予他的利息補貼6年就是22萬5,000。"],["賴委員士葆：22萬5,000乘以17萬戶嘛！就這樣算，難道不是嗎？大概快400億啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：但不是每一個人都貸到1,000萬啦！"],["賴委員士葆：對啦，我說平均嘛，所以等於6年，我們政府要貼大概400億左右，除以6年，1年差不多70億左右。"],["莊部長翠雲：17萬裡面17%是低於貸款500萬的，500萬到800萬的大概有30%，所以超過800萬以上的大概54%。"],["賴委員士葆：我再問你一個問題，最近股市成交量減少這麼多，股市成交量明顯少於1兆，原來是上兆，現在則低於1兆，這個資金跑去哪裡，你們有沒有追一下？會不會跑去房市？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個應該是金管會跟央行去追，不是財政部去追。"],["賴委員士葆：你們沒有注意到這個東西？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然這兩天的股市成交量，昨天來說是比較低，但是……"],["賴委員士葆：昨天低啊，八千多億而已。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們以7月份來看，整體7月份是1兆3,000億，7月份14天平均數是1兆3,000億，昨天（7月21日）如果加上市、上櫃、興櫃是1兆218億，還是超過1兆。"],["賴委員士葆：昨天只有八千多億喔！"],["莊部長翠雲：我們這邊是看上市、上櫃跟興櫃。"],["賴委員士葆：你是加上櫃。"],["莊部長翠雲：全部，上市、上櫃，還有興櫃。"],["賴委員士葆：你們去注意！好不好？我們希望資金放出來，你也要注意到對於整個金融市場……"],["莊部長翠雲：當然。"],["賴委員士葆：因為現在政府的M1B又增加，所以要去管控一下，我認為財政部還是有這個責任。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝委員的建議，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝賴士葆委員。","下一位請郭國文委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":408,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-23","speakers":["吳秉叡","林楚茵","張智倫","賴士葆","林倩綺","林德福","郭國文","賴惠員","劉書彬","李坤城","林思銘","顏寬恒","李彥秀","王世堅","羅明才","鍾佳濱","許忠信","陳玉珍"],"page_start":361,"meetingDate":["2026-07-22"],"gazette_id":"1156601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「遺產及贈與稅法」12案：（詢答）(一)本院委員吳秉叡等19人、委員郭昱晴等16人、\n委員林楚茵等16人、委員王美惠等17人、委員李坤城等19人、委員郭國文等21人分別擬具「遺產\n及贈與稅法部分條文修正草案」等6案、(二)本院委員賴惠員等16人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第六\n條、第十五條及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員王鴻薇等18人、委員林思銘等18\n人分別擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條條文修正草案」等2案、(四)本院委員張智倫等17人擬具\n「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員李彥秀等16人擬具\n「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條、第十七條之一及第二十九條條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員賴士\n葆等26 人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第三十條及第四十一條條文修正草案」案；二、審查「土地稅\n法」9案：（詢答）(一)本院委員李坤城等18人、委員馬文君等20人分別擬具「土地稅法增訂第\n十七條之一條文草案」等2案、(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等 18人、委員傅崐萁等19\n人、委員李彥秀等18人、委員林倩綺等19人、委員賴士葆等41人、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人\n分別擬具「土地稅法第十七條之一及第十九條條文修正草案」等7案；三、審查「房屋稅條例」9\n案：（詢答）(一)本院委員李坤城等19人、委員馬文君等21人分別擬具「房屋稅條例增訂第五條\n之一條文草案」等2案、(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等19人、委員傅崐萁等19人、委\n員李彥秀等18人、委員林倩綺等19人、委員賴士葆等41人、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人分別擬\n具「房屋稅條例第五條之一及第六條條文修正草案」等7案","agenda_id":"1156601_00017"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}