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文","start":"2026-07-22T09:50:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:50:33+08:00","text":"少子化本來就應該是全國共同來面對……是。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:50:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:50:44.666667+08:00","text":"是國家跟家庭，也是中央跟地方，可是問題是你如果有這麼大的期待，條文上不要用「得」，用「應」就好，對不對？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:50:45.727273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:50:49.833333+08:00","text":"因為在討論這個條文，我想先跟您對話，好不好？是。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:50:51.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:51:00.785714+08:00","text":"應該是要從這個角度，你才能貫徹中央的政策，你授權的條款空間越大，基本上要達到目標就越不可能。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:51:01.230769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:51:06.800000+08:00","text":"另外，本席也要多預留一點時間來跟你對話有關新青安的問題。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:51:07.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:51:32.714286+08:00","text":"新青安現在有新版本出現，我們討論了非常多，關於新青安的問題，我總結來說，最大的問題是如果今天都自住的話，不會有什麼問題，問題就在於他的投資行為，也就是說，會造成央行第七次強烈信用管制很重要的一個關鍵，就是政府的政策左右互搏的結果。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:51:33.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:51:55.571429+08:00","text":"你現在改了新青安的版本，所謂的新青安3.0，我們就看啊，新青安2.0的部分，你曾經在立法院的壓力跟輿論的壓力當中，有去查違規案件高達1萬449件，違規率高達6.5%。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:51:56.230769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:52:03.750000+08:00","text":"違規的部分有出租、營業跟人頭戶，人頭戶的部分還比較少，相對於這三項，是不是還有其他的？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:52:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:52:14.818182+08:00","text":"老實講，相對而言我認為是寬鬆啦，但是我想要問你一件事情，未來的新青安3.0，類似的違規事件會不會再出現？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:52:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:52:20.600000+08:00","text":"你有沒有把握把1萬449件降為0，有沒有可能？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:52:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:52:32.800000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，青安2.0的時候，其實違規的是2,579件，那一萬多件包含原來青安1.0的部分。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:52:32.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:52:35.285714+08:00","text":"兩千五百多件也很多啊！","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:52:35.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:52:47.636364+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，我們在2.0執行的時候，第一個，我們後來就改了，一生只有一次；第二個，要提自住切結書，因為在一開始實施時並沒有這樣做。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:52:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:52:50.875000+08:00","text":"所以你有把握新青安3.0就不會再有違規事件，是不是？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:52:50.875000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:52:51.875000+08:00","text":"有沒有把握？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:52:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:52:54.750000+08:00","text":"我們不是用保證的，我們是用加強查核。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:52:54.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:52:55.750000+08:00","text":"加強查核？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:52:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:52:57.625000+08:00","text":"一定會加強查核。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:52:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:53:01.818182+08:00","text":"制度上的源頭設計就要阻絕有可能的漏洞！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:53:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:53:08.833333+08:00","text":"結果你還要透過事後的加強查核，才有補強的空間，那不就是制度設計還有需要再精進的空間嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:53:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:53:10.333333+08:00","text":"不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:53:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:53:12.666667+08:00","text":"你沒有把握嘛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:53:13.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:53:14.750000+08:00","text":"第一個要告訴他們……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:53:15.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:53:16.875000+08:00","text":"新青安為什麼大家會這麼重視？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:53:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:53:28.666667+08:00","text":"不是反對新青安，是反對新青安的投資行為會造成房市的波動，還有信用管制的失衡，這是第一個問題。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:53:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:53:36.875000+08:00","text":"違規的事件可能會造成這種結果，還有第二個問題，你只抓這些違規，你有沒有辦法處理他這個投資行為？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:53:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:53:50.666667+08:00","text":"你看新青安在114年當中轉售案件高達2,897件，其中1,835件因為轉售而獲利100萬元，還有5件不到兩個月轉售就大賺500萬元喔！","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:53:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:53:58.777778+08:00","text":"簡單講，他只要自備款139萬，月繳七千多元，繳兩個月就可以獲利555萬！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:53:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:54:14.777778+08:00","text":"在5年之內，雖然我們兩稅合一有比較高的稅率來遏止這樣的交易，增加他的交易成本，但是部長，新青安的目的是什麼？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:54:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:54:16.714286+08:00","text":"是自住，不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:54:16.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:54:19+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:54:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:54:22.333333+08:00","text":"自住的定義是第幾年，財政部？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:54:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:54:24.500000+08:00","text":"什麼自住？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:54:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:54:26.333333+08:00","text":"第幾年？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:54:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:54:28.500000+08:00","text":"第6年嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:54:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:54:30.428571+08:00","text":"才回歸稅率10%，對不對？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:54:30.428571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:54:31.428571+08:00","text":"你說房地合一稅。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:54:31.428571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:54:32.428571+08:00","text":"還傻在那邊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:54:31.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:54:42.875000+08:00","text":"簡單地講，新青安的目的是自住，它的目標是10%，也就是在5年之內的交易，只要符合兩稅合一，基本上都不是新青安可以容許的範圍。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:54:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:55:02.777778+08:00","text":"但是你去看違規行為，查到的違規行為當中，使用5年，基本上只會追回利息的補貼，一萬多件，包括舊青安，兩億五千多萬收回金額中，平均一件只有2.3萬。","quality":0.787},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:55:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:55:18.750000+08:00","text":"各位，請想一想，新青安規定5年之內不符合自住原則的投機炒作行為，但一來沒有禁止轉售，二來沒有罰則，三來獲利沒有損失。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:55:19.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:55:24.777778+08:00","text":"簡單講，就是轉售無禁止、無罰則、獲利無損，三無階段。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:55:25.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:55:30.666667+08:00","text":"因為有這三無階段，所以就算改成新青安3.0，請問他會不會轉售？","quality":0.577},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:55:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:55:32.857143+08:00","text":"我再請問一下部長，你有沒有把握？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:55:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:55:36.500000+08:00","text":"財產權沒有辦法，是不是？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:55:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:55:44.600000+08:00","text":"委員，在2.0的時候是有這樣的情況，到了3.0我們已經注意到，所以告訴他，第一，你一生只有一次……","quality":0.605},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:55:44.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:55:45.600000+08:00","text":"道德勸說……","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:55:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:55:46.800000+08:00","text":"沒有，就是一生只有一次……","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:55:46.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:55:47.909091+08:00","text":"就算一生只有一次，……","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:55:47.909091+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:55:48.818182+08:00","text":"而且貸款會去聯徵中心……","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:55:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:55:50.750000+08:00","text":"但他照樣會轉售！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:55:51.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:55:54.714286+08:00","text":"如果要轉售，第一個就有稅的問題，房地合一稅……","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:55:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:56:00.846154+08:00","text":"稅就是普通的稅，他還沒有……你這個大方向中，新青安就應該符合自住，本席剛剛請教你了嘛！","quality":0.568},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:56:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:56:02.750000+08:00","text":"第二個就是有差價……","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:56:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:56:09.200000+08:00","text":"除了稅之外，我直接了當跟你講，政策上他違反了自住原則，所以應該有適當的行政處理。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:56:09.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:56:15+08:00","text":"也就是說，要加強違反政策的規範，不是嗎？是。是？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:56:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:56:18.846154+08:00","text":"有道理啊，所以你要去思考這問題。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:56:19.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:56:24+08:00","text":"問題是在3.0中有沒有這樣的規範，部長？沒有！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:56:25.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:56:32.777778+08:00","text":"第一，如果違規的話，會追回利息補貼；第二，貸款條件會重新……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:56:35.153846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:56:39.600000+08:00","text":"違規的部分剛剛講過了，還是只有利息的追回而已，但他一樣可以獲利了結，獲利無損。","quality":0.686},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:56:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:56:46.666667+08:00","text":"他照樣可以投資，一樣可以造成房市的波動，對不對？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:56:47.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:56:52.800000+08:00","text":"所以還是會造成房市信用管制的左右互搏，因為並沒有改變問題嘛！","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:56:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:57:04.666667+08:00","text":"委員，房屋買了以後，我們已經告訴你一生只能貸一次，所以貸款的人要珍惜，如果要轉售獲利就會有稅的問題……","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:57:06.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:57:12.600000+08:00","text":"即便是這樣，但現在的方式是鼓勵年輕人提早進入房市，讓他減少利息成本，並擁有自住的房屋……","quality":0.641},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:57:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:57:14+08:00","text":"自住的房屋。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:57:14.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:57:14.750000+08:00","text":"沒有錯……","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:57:14.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:57:16.833333+08:00","text":"對，自住的房屋。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:57:16.833333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:57:18.916667+08:00","text":"何以你不能強化讓這符合財政部的定義，6年才是自住，而在5年之內要有一些約束條款。","quality":0.257},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:57:18.916667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:57:21+08:00","text":"本席跟你對話的目的，就是希望減少投機炒作的可能，這個你不去想一想？","quality":0.233},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:57:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:57:24.777778+08:00","text":"這部分我們有想過，也找各部會來開過會……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T09:57:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:57:28.666667+08:00","text":"部長，想一想啦，謝謝郭國文委員……","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:57:28.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:57:29.666667+08:00","text":"好好想一想嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-22T09:57:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:57:30.636364+08:00","text":"你只追回利息實在沒意思，對不對？","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:57:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:57:32.500000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T09:57:35.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:57:36.833333+08:00","text":"下一位請賴惠員委員質詢。","quality":0.818}]},"gazette":{"lineno":197,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（9時47分）謝謝主席。有請莊部長。"],["主席：請財政部莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：部長好。我想要跟你探討一下今天的會議主題，關於居住減壓的房屋稅跟地價稅減免，以因應整個臺灣少子化的問題。","行政院的版本對外講得非常好，基本上會有超過百萬戶人受益，而且稅減可能到50至75億。部長，我真的不曉得這個新聞稿可以寫這麼大的目標是怎麼寫出來的？你如果對照一下行政院版本是「得適當減免」，是「得」，不是「應」，那你怎麼算得出來呢？你怎麼知道地方要不要減這個稅？50到75億要怎麼算出來？百萬戶要怎麼形成？這是一個非常、非常大的問號啊！","部長，我也稍微換算了一下，透過稅減的方式當然是最好，減少地方政府甚至公所亂發獎金，沒有達到實質的成效。如果從你相對的統計來說，自用住宅的地價稅總共是71億，占所有地價稅的7.2%，平均每戶地價稅是1,715元，臺北市稍微高一點是5,141元，新北、桃園、新竹、臺南、高雄平均在一千多元，其他縣市是1,000元以下，也就是說，自用住宅這部分，基本上你能夠減免負擔的約略是這個區間。另外，自用住宅的部分，總體稅額是113億，大概占全部房屋稅11%，平均約3,500元，簡單講，符合全國單一住宅資格的能夠少多少絕對額？地價稅加房屋稅大概是5,000元。我不曉得你這個50到75億是怎麼估出來的？這新聞稿不要寫得太誇張啊！你如果要達到這個目標的話，你要改什麼？就是「得適當減免」，要改成「應減免」，很多委員提出來是這樣子啊，這樣居住減壓、因應少子化政策才能達到良法美意啊！部長，你解釋一下。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。在這裡我們可以看到在自住裡面總共有651萬戶，以115年來看，而單一自住就有318萬件，所以單一自住占了48.8%。在單一自住裡面，如果是婚育家庭的話，我們當然是用一個……就是我們先去估算，我們相信我們授權地方政府去做相關的一些減免，地方政府也會意識到少子女化，以及在他們自治條例裡面去做相關規範，所以有一個區間，我們是以最大的額度來估算。"],["郭委員國文：地方政府還要通過議會。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["郭委員國文：少子化本來就應該是全國共同來面對……"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["郭委員國文：是國家跟家庭，也是中央跟地方，可是問題是你如果有這麼大的期待，條文上不要用「得」，用「應」就好，對不對？因為在討論這個條文，我想先跟您對話，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["郭委員國文：應該是要從這個角度，你才能貫徹中央的政策，你授權的條款空間越大，基本上要達到目標就越不可能。","另外，本席也要多預留一點時間來跟你對話有關新青安的問題。新青安現在有新版本出現，我們討論了非常多，關於新青安的問題，我總結來說，最大的問題是如果今天都自住的話，不會有什麼問題，問題就在於他的投資行為，也就是說，會造成央行第七次強烈信用管制很重要的一個關鍵，就是政府的政策左右互搏的結果。你現在改了新青安的版本，所謂的新青安3.0，我們就看啊，新青安2.0的部分，你曾經在立法院的壓力跟輿論的壓力當中，有去查違規案件高達1萬449件，違規率高達6.5%。違規的部分有出租、營業跟人頭戶，人頭戶的部分還比較少，相對於這三項，是不是還有其他的？老實講，相對而言我認為是寬鬆啦，但是我想要問你一件事情，未來的新青安3.0，類似的違規事件會不會再出現？你有沒有把握把1萬449件降為0，有沒有可能？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，青安2.0的時候，其實違規的是2,579件，那一萬多件包含原來青安1.0的部分。"],["郭委員國文：兩千五百多件也很多啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：我跟委員報告，我們在2.0執行的時候，第一個，我們後來就改了，一生只有一次；第二個，要提自住切結書，因為在一開始實施時並沒有這樣做。"],["郭委員國文：所以你有把握新青安3.0就不會再有違規事件，是不是？有沒有把握？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們不是用保證的，我們是用加強查核。"],["郭委員國文：加強查核？"],["莊部長翠雲：一定會加強查核。"],["郭委員國文：制度上的源頭設計就要阻絕有可能的漏洞！結果你還要透過事後的加強查核，才有補強的空間，那不就是制度設計還有需要再精進的空間嗎？不是嗎？你沒有把握嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個要告訴他們……"],["郭委員國文：新青安為什麼大家會這麼重視？不是反對新青安，是反對新青安的投資行為會造成房市的波動，還有信用管制的失衡，這是第一個問題。","違規的事件可能會造成這種結果，還有第二個問題，你只抓這些違規，你有沒有辦法處理他這個投資行為？你看新青安在114年當中轉售案件高達2,897件，其中1,835件因為轉售而獲利100萬元，還有5件不到兩個月轉售就大賺500萬元喔！簡單講，他只要自備款139萬，月繳七千多元，繳兩個月就可以獲利555萬！在5年之內，雖然我們兩稅合一有比較高的稅率來遏止這樣的交易，增加他的交易成本，但是部長，新青安的目的是什麼？是自住，不是嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有錯。"],["郭委員國文：自住的定義是第幾年，財政部？"],["莊部長翠雲：什麼自住？"],["郭委員國文：第幾年？第6年嘛！才回歸稅率10%，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：你說房地合一稅。"],["郭委員國文：還傻在那邊。簡單地講，新青安的目的是自住，它的目標是10%，也就是在5年之內的交易，只要符合兩稅合一，基本上都不是新青安可以容許的範圍。但是你去看違規行為，查到的違規行為當中，使用5年，基本上只會追回利息的補貼，一萬多件，包括舊青安，兩億五千多萬收回金額中，平均一件只有2.3萬。各位，請想一想，新青安規定5年之內不符合自住原則的投機炒作行為，但一來沒有禁止轉售，二來沒有罰則，三來獲利沒有損失。簡單講，就是轉售無禁止、無罰則、獲利無損，三無階段。因為有這三無階段，所以就算改成新青安3.0，請問他會不會轉售？我再請問一下部長，你有沒有把握？財產權沒有辦法，是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，在2.0的時候是有這樣的情況，到了3.0我們已經注意到，所以告訴他，第一，你一生只有一次……"],["郭委員國文：道德勸說……"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，就是一生只有一次……"],["郭委員國文：就算一生只有一次，……"],["莊部長翠雲：而且貸款會去聯徵中心……"],["郭委員國文：但他照樣會轉售！"],["莊部長翠雲：如果要轉售，第一個就有稅的問題，房地合一稅……"],["郭委員國文：稅就是普通的稅，他還沒有……你這個大方向中，新青安就應該符合自住，本席剛剛請教你了嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：第二個就是有差價……"],["郭委員國文：除了稅之外，我直接了當跟你講，政策上他違反了自住原則，所以應該有適當的行政處理。也就是說，要加強違反政策的規範，不是嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["郭委員國文：是？有道理啊，所以你要去思考這問題。問題是在3.0中有沒有這樣的規範，部長？沒有！"],["莊部長翠雲：第一，如果違規的話，會追回利息補貼；第二，貸款條件會重新……"],["郭委員國文：違規的部分剛剛講過了，還是只有利息的追回而已，但他一樣可以獲利了結，獲利無損。他照樣可以投資，一樣可以造成房市的波動，對不對？所以還是會造成房市信用管制的左右互搏，因為並沒有改變問題嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，房屋買了以後，我們已經告訴你一生只能貸一次，所以貸款的人要珍惜，如果要轉售獲利就會有稅的問題……"],["郭委員國文：即便是這樣，但現在的方式是鼓勵年輕人提早進入房市，讓他減少利息成本，並擁有自住的房屋……"],["莊部長翠雲：自住的房屋。"],["郭委員國文：沒有錯……"],["莊部長翠雲：對，自住的房屋。"],["郭委員國文：何以你不能強化讓這符合財政部的定義，6年才是自住，而在5年之內要有一些約束條款。本席跟你對話的目的，就是希望減少投機炒作的可能，這個你不去想一想？"],["莊部長翠雲：這部分我們有想過，也找各部會來開過會……"],["主席：部長，想一想啦，謝謝郭國文委員……"],["郭委員國文：好好想一想嘛！你只追回利息實在沒意思，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：下一位請賴惠員委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":408,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-23","speakers":["吳秉叡","林楚茵","張智倫","賴士葆","林倩綺","林德福","郭國文","賴惠員","劉書彬","李坤城","林思銘","顏寬恒","李彥秀","王世堅","羅明才","鍾佳濱","許忠信","陳玉珍"],"page_start":361,"meetingDate":["2026-07-22"],"gazette_id":"1156601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「遺產及贈與稅法」12案：（詢答）(一)本院委員吳秉叡等19人、委員郭昱晴等16人、\n委員林楚茵等16人、委員王美惠等17人、委員李坤城等19人、委員郭國文等21人分別擬具「遺產\n及贈與稅法部分條文修正草案」等6案、(二)本院委員賴惠員等16人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第六\n條、第十五條及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員王鴻薇等18人、委員林思銘等18\n人分別擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條條文修正草案」等2案、(四)本院委員張智倫等17人擬具\n「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員李彥秀等16人擬具\n「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條、第十七條之一及第二十九條條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員賴士\n葆等26 人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第三十條及第四十一條條文修正草案」案；二、審查「土地稅\n法」9案：（詢答）(一)本院委員李坤城等18人、委員馬文君等20人分別擬具「土地稅法增訂第\n十七條之一條文草案」等2案、(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等 18人、委員傅崐萁等19\n人、委員李彥秀等18人、委員林倩綺等19人、委員賴士葆等41人、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人\n分別擬具「土地稅法第十七條之一及第十九條條文修正草案」等7案；三、審查「房屋稅條例」9\n案：（詢答）(一)本院委員李坤城等19人、委員馬文君等21人分別擬具「房屋稅條例增訂第五條\n之一條文草案」等2案、(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等19人、委員傅崐萁等19人、委\n員李彥秀等18人、委員林倩綺等19人、委員賴士葆等41人、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人分別擬\n具「房屋稅條例第五條之一及第六條條文修正草案」等7案","agenda_id":"1156601_00017"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}