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貸款"},{"start":389,"end":391,"text":"那這樣子的話這個合理嗎"},{"start":391,"end":401,"text":"在這個部分我們是借款人本人本人的一個年所得來做一個也就是說我們希望政府給予補助對象"},{"start":401,"end":409,"text":"不要對於所謂的高財力高資歷者我們希望把補助對象更為精準去需要協助的部分"},{"start":409,"end":414,"text":"所以我們把定為年所得低於200萬而且是以借款人本人並不是以家戶"},{"start":414,"end":418,"text":"我覺得我覺得你這個200萬會不會定的太高了"},{"start":418,"end":420,"text":"為什麼不是100萬"},{"start":420,"end":421,"text":"是100萬啊"},{"start":421,"end":424,"text":"那這個等於是幫富人開了一個後門"},{"start":424,"end":427,"text":"讓富人也可以來用新清安"},{"start":427,"end":431,"text":"200萬如果各年所得就成為富人"},{"start":431,"end":434,"text":"我覺得這個部分我們其實很量過啦"},{"start":434,"end":437,"text":"那年所得的部分我們也計算過"},{"start":437,"end":442,"text":"大概都是不超過200萬居在比例大啦"},{"start":442,"end":447,"text":"那我想這個部分也是要協助需要買房子的人我們來做一個協助"},{"start":447,"end":453,"text":"年所得200萬的人用不到你的新清安3.0啦"},{"start":453,"end":457,"text":"對啊用超過200萬就不是用"},{"start":457,"end":462,"text":"你這個政策其實實在是我不知道單一個人200萬是怎麼來的"},{"start":462,"end":468,"text":"如果你用主計總處公布的2024年家庭收支調查的結果顯示"},{"start":468,"end":472,"text":"那他每一副平均是88.8萬"},{"start":472,"end":475,"text":"那儲蓄的平均是27.6萬"},{"start":475,"end":481,"text":"那你如果考量就是皇代的支出應該佔總支出的三分之一的話"},{"start":481,"end":485,"text":"那算出來是200萬你是不是用這樣的算法"},{"start":485,"end":486,"text":"沒有錯沒有錯"},{"start":486,"end":494,"text":"可是我覺得這樣的算法的話這個計算邏輯好像有很多很多的一個很奇怪的地方"},{"start":494,"end":502,"text":"如果用勞動部公布的新鮮人的一個薪資大學畢業他的中位數每個人大概是3萬4"},{"start":502,"end":509,"text":"那研究所是5萬1換算年薪所得大概就是40.8萬或是61.2萬"},{"start":509,"end":518,"text":"部長如果要鼓勵年輕的年輕人買房的話這個算出來的數字難道會比較不是比較合乎現況嗎"},{"start":518,"end":524,"text":"不會那您剛剛講的那些情況其實他都是符合新清安貸款的一個條件"},{"start":524,"end":526,"text":"他他他就在我們的範圍內啊"},{"start":526,"end":527,"text":"就在你的範圍內"},{"start":527,"end":530,"text":"對啊可是問題是你的那個論局太大了"},{"start":530,"end":534,"text":"我有人說大有人說小"},{"start":534,"end":539,"text":"部長有沒有真正的財政部真正的要支持年輕人結婚"},{"start":539,"end":542,"text":"我們要鼓勵鼓勵啊"},{"start":542,"end":546,"text":"這個看起來不知道你是喊真的還喊假的"},{"start":546,"end":549,"text":"如果我們用內政部的一個調查的話"},{"start":549,"end":554,"text":"男生男生結婚的年齡大概是讓我在31歲到35歲"},{"start":554,"end":557,"text":"女生大概是26歲到30歲"},{"start":557,"end":570,"text":"那這樣子的一個平均的話就是說他如果我們用剛才延續剛才就是說我們年輕人他們拿到的一個薪資來看的話"},{"start":570,"end":574,"text":"那就是說這個業薪中位數大概是58萬"},{"start":574,"end":578,"text":"那一年58萬三分之一就是19萬"},{"start":578,"end":582,"text":"那貸款的額度你上調到1200萬的時候"},{"start":582,"end":586,"text":"假設你的寬限期是三年貸款是30年"},{"start":586,"end":594,"text":"那這樣就表示說你到了第37個月開始每個月要開始還本力大概就是4.7萬"},{"start":594,"end":598,"text":"那一年要還44萬如果貸款40年的話"},{"start":598,"end":604,"text":"還那個還款本力跟那個他的本金大概是3.7萬"},{"start":604,"end":607,"text":"那一年還有56萬多"},{"start":607,"end":611,"text":"所以我覺得這個比財政部的三分之一還高"},{"start":611,"end":617,"text":"部長我覺得大家對你的新清安3.0顯然都還有很多的一個餘率"},{"start":617,"end":623,"text":"是不是我們可以重新再再試著再做一些檢討"},{"start":623,"end":629,"text":"大家也都很期待新清安的清安3.0的推出我們現在已經推出"},{"start":629,"end":633,"text":"在執行過程當中我們會持續關注辦理的情況"},{"start":633,"end":635,"text":"謝謝委員的指教謝謝"},{"start":635,"end":637,"text":"謝謝賴會員委員"},{"start":637,"end":639,"text":"下一位委員請林黛華委員質詢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T09:57:59+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:58:00+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T09:58:00+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:58:01+08:00","text":"請部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:58:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:58:00.666667+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T09:58:00.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T09:58:01.666667+08:00","text":"部長早安。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T09:58:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:58:04.733333+08:00","text":"我延續郭國文委員有關新青安3.0是不是投機的問題。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T09:58:08.058824+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:58:27.636364+08:00","text":"舉例有一對夫妻，其中先生已經有一棟房子了，如果他們想在臺北市另外再買一棟3,500萬的房子，請問是不是適用新青安3.0？","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T09:58:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:58:28.500000+08:00","text":"當然是！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T09:58:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:58:43.933333+08:00","text":"當然是的話，等於以3,500萬買到這棟房子或即便以6,000萬買到房子時，那麼其中的3,500萬是不是可以用新青安3.0？","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T09:58:44.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:58:44.733333+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:58:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:58:56.806452+08:00","text":"第一，夫妻中如果夫已經有房子，而我們所謂沒有自有住宅是指本人、配偶及未成年子女都沒有自己的房子。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:58:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:59:03.791667+08:00","text":"所以現在先生已經有一間房子，那麼太太想再買房子時，就不能申請適用新青安。","quality":0.697},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:59:04.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:59:06.900000+08:00","text":"要買房子當然沒有問題，只是不能適用新青安。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:59:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:59:14.777778+08:00","text":"第二，如果在臺北市買，而房屋總價是6,000萬的話，也不能適用新青安。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:59:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:59:25.800000+08:00","text":"因為這次新青安的協助對象必須精準，也就是高所得、高資力的並不是政府要給予協助、補助的對象。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T09:59:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:59:32.285714+08:00","text":"所以如果要適用3.0的話，在臺北市的總價一定要3,500萬？","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T09:59:32.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:59:35.666667+08:00","text":"還是不能超過3,500萬？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T09:59:36.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:59:37.750000+08:00","text":"不超過3,500萬的房子。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T09:59:39.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:59:50.761905+08:00","text":"部長，新青安3.0方案的四大核心條件，讓我們不知道到底是要拯救房市還是居住正義？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T09:59:52.888889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T09:59:55.777778+08:00","text":"你政策的目的到底是什麼？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T09:59:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:00:00.666667+08:00","text":"讓我覺得有很多疑問。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:00:01.692308+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:00:04.833333+08:00","text":"政策所宣示的目的到底是為什麼？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:00:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:00:09.705882+08:00","text":"是為了讓年輕人有機會買到更好的房子？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:00:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:00:12.750000+08:00","text":"還是用他們自己的房子？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:00:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:00:16.714286+08:00","text":"還是協助民眾可以自購住宅？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:00:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:00:20.714286+08:00","text":"還是在解救房屋市場？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:00:21.636364+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:00:32.666667+08:00","text":"看起來這整個政策顯然有很多的矛盾點，我接著就這些矛盾點跟部長做探討。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:00:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:00:39.066667+08:00","text":"為什麼對於年齡加年限要小於80？","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:00:41.842105+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:00:44.736842+08:00","text":"如此預設是不是房貸最後要一路繳到80歲？","quality":0.412},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:00:45.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:00:51.809524+08:00","text":"80歲的上限可能導致很多借款人一輩子都背著房貸。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:00:55.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:01:00.833333+08:00","text":"2024年國人的平均壽命是80.77歲，是不是這樣算出來的？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:01:01.214286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:01:06.500000+08:00","text":"為什麼設定的是未滿五十歲？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:01:08.062500+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:01:10.250000+08:00","text":"難道青安的「青」不是青年的「青」？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:01:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:01:13.700000+08:00","text":"這到底是怎麼算的？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:01:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:01:18.705882+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，在年齡上不超過50歲。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:01:21.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:01:34.812500+08:00","text":"另外，所謂的80是指年齡加上貸款期限，加起來不超過80，這解決了剛剛委員所說的，到八十幾歲還在背貸款的問題。","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:01:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:01:49.733333+08:00","text":"所以年齡部分是未滿50歲，所謂青年青安，大家都知道現在購屋年齡有向後的趨勢，因此我們以低於50歲作為門檻。","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:01:50.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:02:01.600000+08:00","text":"這部分其實在2.0時我們就知道，如果以50歲為門檻的話，影響為5.39%。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:02:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:02:09.800000+08:00","text":"換言之，上次的2.0有94.6%都在50歲以下，均符合青年層級……所以……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:02:11.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:02:12.727273+08:00","text":"40歲以下占了73%。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:02:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:02:23.692308+08:00","text":"簡單來說，之所以拉到80是要讓新青安3.0政策受惠的人更多嗎？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:02:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:02:24.857143+08:00","text":"是不是這意思？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:02:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:02:43.833333+08:00","text":"不是受惠的人更多，而是我們認為應該把資源用在更需要協助的朋友們身上，所以當然會考慮影響的層面，因此把年齡訂在50歲以下，這參考了2.0當時的實施情況，以及各個年齡層購屋的情況。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:02:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:03:02.760000+08:00","text":"我們知道四十歲以下的占了73%，而50歲以下占了94.5%，目前來說，購屋年齡大概是這樣的大比例，所以訂出這樣的年齡，同時也讓年齡加上貸款期限不要超過80。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:03:03.576923+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:03:07.807692+08:00","text":"這部分當時是經過跨部會多方討論出來的。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:03:08.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:03:13.666667+08:00","text":"我覺得未滿50歲的規定明顯寬鬆，實在不符合青年的定位。","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:03:16.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:03:30.727273+08:00","text":"再來，以收入為篩選標準，所得不能超過200萬，我請問賦稅署署長。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:03:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:03:37.800000+08:00","text":"署長，你才新上任，我請教你，你一個月的薪水多少？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"樓署長美鐘","start":"2026-07-22T10:03:37.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:03:41+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"樓署長美鐘","start":"2026-07-22T10:03:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:03:43.812500+08:00","text":"說實在的，我不是那麼具體記得那個數字。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:03:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:03:44.833333+08:00","text":"你還沒領到？對。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:03:45.230769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:03:47.769231+08:00","text":"你的個人所得有沒有超過200萬？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:03:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:03:50.823529+08:00","text":"你跟你先生的所得合起來有沒有超過200萬？","quality":1},{"speaker":"樓署長美鐘","start":"2026-07-22T10:03:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:03:53.842105+08:00","text":"我跟我先生兩個人合起來當然有，但我一個人應該沒有。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:03:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:03:56+08:00","text":"你一個人應該沒有？對。好……","quality":1},{"speaker":"樓署長美鐘","start":"2026-07-22T10:03:57.260870+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:04:00.800000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我真的沒有很注意我自己的所得，因為都直接入帳。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:04:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:04:01.666667+08:00","text":"沒關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:04:03.756098+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:04:13.707317+08:00","text":"如果財政部限制申貸的貸款人所得不得超過200萬，相當於月薪15到16萬。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:04:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:04:15.800000+08:00","text":"好，署長請回！謝謝。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:04:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:04:29.818182+08:00","text":"部長，如果我的月薪是15到16萬，而月薪15萬的人可以申請新青安貸款，領取政府補助，這樣合理嗎？","quality":0.73},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:04:31.219512+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:04:52.821429+08:00","text":"我們是以借款人本人的年所得為主，也就是我們希望政府給予補助的對象不是所謂的高財力、高資力者，而是讓補助的對象更為精準，去協助需要協助的人，所以把年所得訂為低於200萬，而且是以借款人本人為主，並不是以家戶來計算……","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:04:53.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:04:56.777778+08:00","text":"我覺得你這個200萬會不會訂得太高了？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:04:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:04:58.666667+08:00","text":"為什麼不是100萬呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:05:00.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:05:05.727273+08:00","text":"你這個等於是幫富人開了一個後門，讓富人也可以來用新青安3.0。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:05:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:05:25.814815+08:00","text":"年所得200萬如果就成為富人……其實這個部分我們有衡量過，年所得的部分我們也計算過，大概是不超過200萬的比例比較大，我們也是要對需要買房子的人來提供協助啦！","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:05:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:05:31.625000+08:00","text":"年所得200萬的人用不到你的新青安3.0啦！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:05:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:05:35.600000+08:00","text":"對啊，超過200萬就不適用。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:05:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:05:40.791667+08:00","text":"我實在不知道你這個單一個人200萬的政策是怎麼來的。","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:05:42.043478+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:06:03.750000+08:00","text":"根據主計總處公布的2024年家庭收支調查結果，每戶消費支出平均是88.8萬，儲蓄平均是27.6萬，如果考量房貸支出應占總支出三分之一的話，算出來是200萬，你們是不是用這樣的算法？","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:06:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:06:04.333333+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:06:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:06:37.206897+08:00","text":"可是我覺得這種算法的計算邏輯好像有很多、很多很奇怪的地方，因為根據勞動部公布的新鮮人薪資，大學畢業的中位數每個人每月大概是3.4萬，研究所畢業是5.1萬，換算成年薪所得大概也就是40.8萬或61.2萬，部長，如果要鼓勵年輕人買房的話，這樣算出來的數字不是比較合乎現況嗎？不會！","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:06:37.620690+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:06:44.833333+08:00","text":"您剛剛講的那些情況其實都符合新青安貸款的條件，它就在我們的範圍內啊！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:06:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:06:46+08:00","text":"就在你們的範圍內？對！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:06:46.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:06:48.812500+08:00","text":"問題是你們的range太大了啊！","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:06:49.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:06:52.555556+08:00","text":"有人說大，有人說小，我也……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:06:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:06:57.772727+08:00","text":"好啦，部長，財政部有沒有真正要支持年輕人結婚？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:06:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:07:00.625000+08:00","text":"我們當然鼓勵啊！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:07:01.470588+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:07:04.764706+08:00","text":"看起來不知道你是喊真的還是喊假的。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:07:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:08:09.777778+08:00","text":"如果我們用內政部的調查資料，男生結婚的年齡大概落在31歲到35歲，女生大概是26歲到30歲，以這樣的平均年齡層，加上剛才說的年輕人薪資，年薪中位數大概是58萬，一年58萬，三分之一就是19萬，貸款額度上調到1,200萬的時候，假設寬限期3年，貸款30年，就表示到了第37個月，每個月要開始還本利大概4.7萬，一年要還五十六萬多，如果貸款40年的話，每月還款本利大概是3.7萬，一年要還44萬，都比財政部說的三分之一還高。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:08:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:08:21.684211+08:00","text":"部長，我覺得大家對你的新青安3.0顯然還有很多疑慮，是不是可以重新再做一些檢討？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:08:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:08:31.789474+08:00","text":"我們大家也都很期待青安3.0的推出，在執行過程當中，我們會持續關注辦理的情況。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-22T10:08:31.789474+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:08:32.789474+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:08:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:08:33.333333+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的指教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T10:08:33.555556+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:08:35.714286+08:00","text":"謝謝賴惠員委員。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T10:08:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:08:37.846154+08:00","text":"下一位請劉書彬委員質詢。","quality":0.727}]},"gazette":{"lineno":255,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（9時57分）謝謝主席。請部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["賴委員惠員：部長早安。我延續郭國文委員有關新青安3.0是不是投機的問題。舉例有一對夫妻，其中先生已經有一棟房子了，如果他們想在臺北市另外再買一棟3,500萬的房子，請問是不是適用新青安3.0？當然是！當然是的話，等於以3,500萬買到這棟房子或即便以6,000萬買到房子時，那麼其中的3,500萬是不是可以用新青安3.0？是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：第一，夫妻中如果夫已經有房子，而我們所謂沒有自有住宅是指本人、配偶及未成年子女都沒有自己的房子。所以現在先生已經有一間房子，那麼太太想再買房子時，就不能申請適用新青安。要買房子當然沒有問題，只是不能適用新青安。第二，如果在臺北市買，而房屋總價是6,000萬的話，也不能適用新青安。因為這次新青安的協助對象必須精準，也就是高所得、高資力的並不是政府要給予協助、補助的對象。"],["賴委員惠員：所以如果要適用3.0的話，在臺北市的總價一定要3,500萬？還是不能超過3,500萬？"],["莊部長翠雲：不超過3,500萬的房子。"],["賴委員惠員：部長，新青安3.0方案的四大核心條件，讓我們不知道到底是要拯救房市還是居住正義？你政策的目的到底是什麼？讓我覺得有很多疑問。政策所宣示的目的到底是為什麼？是為了讓年輕人有機會買到更好的房子？還是用他們自己的房子？還是協助民眾可以自購住宅？還是在解救房屋市場？看起來這整個政策顯然有很多的矛盾點，我接著就這些矛盾點跟部長做探討。","為什麼對於年齡加年限要小於80？如此預設是不是房貸最後要一路繳到80歲？80歲的上限可能導致很多借款人一輩子都背著房貸。2024年國人的平均壽命是80.77歲，是不是這樣算出來的？為什麼設定的是未滿五十歲？難道青安的「青」不是青年的「青」？這到底是怎麼算的？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，在年齡上不超過50歲。另外，所謂的80是指年齡加上貸款期限，加起來不超過80，這解決了剛剛委員所說的，到八十幾歲還在背貸款的問題。所以年齡部分是未滿50歲，所謂青年青安，大家都知道現在購屋年齡有向後的趨勢，因此我們以低於50歲作為門檻。這部分其實在2.0時我們就知道，如果以50歲為門檻的話，影響為5.39%。換言之，上次的2.0有94.6%都在50歲以下，均符合青年層級……"],["賴委員惠員：所以……"],["莊部長翠雲：40歲以下占了73%。"],["賴委員惠員：簡單來說，之所以拉到80是要讓新青安3.0政策受惠的人更多嗎？是不是這意思？"],["莊部長翠雲：不是受惠的人更多，而是我們認為應該把資源用在更需要協助的朋友們身上，所以當然會考慮影響的層面，因此把年齡訂在50歲以下，這參考了2.0當時的實施情況，以及各個年齡層購屋的情況。我們知道四十歲以下的占了73%，而50歲以下占了94.5%，目前來說，購屋年齡大概是這樣的大比例，所以訂出這樣的年齡，同時也讓年齡加上貸款期限不要超過80。這部分當時是經過跨部會多方討論出來的。"],["賴委員惠員：我覺得未滿50歲的規定明顯寬鬆，實在不符合青年的定位。再來，以收入為篩選標準，所得不能超過200萬，我請問賦稅署署長。署長，你才新上任，我請教你，你一個月的薪水多少？"],["樓署長美鐘：委員好。說實在的，我不是那麼具體記得那個數字。"],["賴委員惠員：你還沒領到？"],["樓署長美鐘：對。"],["賴委員惠員：你的個人所得有沒有超過200萬？你跟你先生的所得合起來有沒有超過200萬？"],["樓署長美鐘：我跟我先生兩個人合起來當然有，但我一個人應該沒有。"],["賴委員惠員：你一個人應該沒有？"],["樓署長美鐘：對。"],["賴委員惠員：好……"],["樓署長美鐘：跟委員報告，我真的沒有很注意我自己的所得，因為都直接入帳。"],["賴委員惠員：沒關係。如果財政部限制申貸的貸款人所得不得超過200萬，相當於月薪15到16萬。好，署長請回！"],["樓署長美鐘：謝謝。"],["賴委員惠員：部長，如果我的月薪是15到16萬，而月薪15萬的人可以申請新青安貸款，領取政府補助，這樣合理嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們是以借款人本人的年所得為主，也就是我們希望政府給予補助的對象不是所謂的高財力、高資力者，而是讓補助的對象更為精準，去協助需要協助的人，所以把年所得訂為低於200萬，而且是以借款人本人為主，並不是以家戶來計算……"],["賴委員惠員：我覺得你這個200萬會不會訂得太高了？為什麼不是100萬呢？你這個等於是幫富人開了一個後門，讓富人也可以來用新青安3.0。"],["莊部長翠雲：年所得200萬如果就成為富人……其實這個部分我們有衡量過，年所得的部分我們也計算過，大概是不超過200萬的比例比較大，我們也是要對需要買房子的人來提供協助啦！"],["賴委員惠員：年所得200萬的人用不到你的新青安3.0啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：對啊，超過200萬就不適用。"],["賴委員惠員：我實在不知道你這個單一個人200萬的政策是怎麼來的。根據主計總處公布的2024年家庭收支調查結果，每戶消費支出平均是88.8萬，儲蓄平均是27.6萬，如果考量房貸支出應占總支出三分之一的話，算出來是200萬，你們是不是用這樣的算法？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有錯。"],["賴委員惠員：可是我覺得這種算法的計算邏輯好像有很多、很多很奇怪的地方，因為根據勞動部公布的新鮮人薪資，大學畢業的中位數每個人每月大概是3.4萬，研究所畢業是5.1萬，換算成年薪所得大概也就是40.8萬或61.2萬，部長，如果要鼓勵年輕人買房的話，這樣算出來的數字不是比較合乎現況嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：不會！您剛剛講的那些情況其實都符合新青安貸款的條件，它就在我們的範圍內啊！"],["賴委員惠員：就在你們的範圍內？"],["莊部長翠雲：對！"],["賴委員惠員：問題是你們的range太大了啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：有人說大，有人說小，我也……"],["賴委員惠員：好啦，部長，財政部有沒有真正要支持年輕人結婚？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們當然鼓勵啊！"],["賴委員惠員：看起來不知道你是喊真的還是喊假的。如果我們用內政部的調查資料，男生結婚的年齡大概落在31歲到35歲，女生大概是26歲到30歲，以這樣的平均年齡層，加上剛才說的年輕人薪資，年薪中位數大概是58萬，一年58萬，三分之一就是19萬，貸款額度上調到1,200萬的時候，假設寬限期3年，貸款30年，就表示到了第37個月，每個月要開始還本利大概4.7萬，一年要還五十六萬多，如果貸款40年的話，每月還款本利大概是3.7萬，一年要還44萬，都比財政部說的三分之一還高。部長，我覺得大家對你的新青安3.0顯然還有很多疑慮，是不是可以重新再做一些檢討？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們大家也都很期待青安3.0的推出，在執行過程當中，我們會持續關注辦理的情況。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員的指教。"],["主席：謝謝賴惠員委員。","下一位請劉書彬委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":408,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-23","speakers":["吳秉叡","林楚茵","張智倫","賴士葆","林倩綺","林德福","郭國文","賴惠員","劉書彬","李坤城","林思銘","顏寬恒","李彥秀","王世堅","羅明才","鍾佳濱","許忠信","陳玉珍"],"page_start":361,"meetingDate":["2026-07-22"],"gazette_id":"1156601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「遺產及贈與稅法」12案：（詢答）(一)本院委員吳秉叡等19人、委員郭昱晴等16人、\n委員林楚茵等16人、委員王美惠等17人、委員李坤城等19人、委員郭國文等21人分別擬具「遺產\n及贈與稅法部分條文修正草案」等6案、(二)本院委員賴惠員等16人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第六\n條、第十五條及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員王鴻薇等18人、委員林思銘等18\n人分別擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條條文修正草案」等2案、(四)本院委員張智倫等17人擬具\n「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員李彥秀等16人擬具\n「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條、第十七條之一及第二十九條條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員賴士\n葆等26 人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第三十條及第四十一條條文修正草案」案；二、審查「土地稅\n法」9案：（詢答）(一)本院委員李坤城等18人、委員馬文君等20人分別擬具「土地稅法增訂第\n十七條之一條文草案」等2案、(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等 18人、委員傅崐萁等19\n人、委員李彥秀等18人、委員林倩綺等19人、委員賴士葆等41人、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人\n分別擬具「土地稅法第十七條之一及第十九條條文修正草案」等7案；三、審查「房屋稅條例」9\n案：（詢答）(一)本院委員李坤城等19人、委員馬文君等21人分別擬具「房屋稅條例增訂第五條\n之一條文草案」等2案、(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等19人、委員傅崐萁等19人、委\n員李彥秀等18人、委員林倩綺等19人、委員賴士葆等41人、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人分別擬\n具「房屋稅條例第五條之一及第六條條文修正草案」等7案","agenda_id":"1156601_00017"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}