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y":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T10:08:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:09:00.714286+08:00","text":"請財政部莊部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:09:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:09:02.750000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:09:04.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:09:06.250000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:09:08.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:09:24.714286+08:00","text":"8月1日就要開始實施青安3.0，請問青安3.0這項政策目的是要雪中送炭，幫助真正首購的青年，還是在錦上添花，補貼本身就有能力的購屋者？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:09:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:09:36.821429+08:00","text":"委員，青安政策從來就是在協助沒有自有住宅的民眾購買房屋自住使用，我們支持青年實現購屋、安心成家的政策目標是沒有變的。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:09:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:09:42.294118+08:00","text":"你當然會這樣回答，因為我們看到的對象是無自有住宅者嘛！","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:09:42.470588+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:09:45.846154+08:00","text":"對，所以青安3.0就做一些精準的協助。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:09:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:09:59.157895+08:00","text":"但是現在我們再問一個問題，就是如果一個人曾經買房，而且賣房也獲利，如今他在申貸時，名下沒有房屋，按照現行規定還是可以申請青安？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:09:59.368421+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:09:59.789474+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:10:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:10:04.833333+08:00","text":"他曾經買的房子是用青安來貸的話，後來賣掉，這次就不行了。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:10:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:10:08.909091+08:00","text":"不是、不是，我不是問這個，我是說他曾經買過房子，我沒有說他用青安……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:10:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:10:09.333333+08:00","text":"他曾經……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:10:10.315789+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:10:12.368421+08:00","text":"我沒有說，你不要多加條件嘛！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:10:12.526316+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:10:12.842105+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:10:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:10:14.666667+08:00","text":"是不是可以買？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:10:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:10:24.200000+08:00","text":"委員，他以前買那個房子沒有用青安貸款的協助的話，那他這個房子賣掉，現在要重新買一間，而且他本人名下……","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:10:25.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:10:26+08:00","text":"對，他名下……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:10:26.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:10:34.809524+08:00","text":"本人、配偶、未成年子女都沒有房子，那麼他要申請青安的話，就要看是不是符合今天青安3.0所列的條件。","quality":0.69},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:10:35.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:10:38.294118+08:00","text":"好，您說本人、配偶，問題是如果他的尊長有呢？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:10:39.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:10:40.800000+08:00","text":"其實你們沒有講到這裡嘛！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:10:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:10:43.818182+08:00","text":"重點就是制度上面有漏洞嘛！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:10:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:10:49.750000+08:00","text":"因為青安3.0認定的不是真正的首購，而只是目前無房。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:10:50.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:10:57.750000+08:00","text":"曾經買賣過房地產甚至還有獲利者怎麼能算是首購，還能申請青安3.0呢？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:11:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:11:08.272727+08:00","text":"行政院的目的應該是要幫助首購者，現在這樣甚至還可能排擠資源，所以想請財政部再考慮一下。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:11:09.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:11:18.882353+08:00","text":"當然，這項政策馬上就要上路了，所以你們的滾動式檢討大概什麼時候會出現？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:11:19.230769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:11:23.764706+08:00","text":"是不是要考慮把這種資源留給第一次購屋的青年？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:11:25.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:11:26.777778+08:00","text":"技術上可行嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:11:29.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:11:47.133333+08:00","text":"現在青安就是一生只能貸一次，如果他之前沒有用過青安，今天可能因為職業變動，從北部調到南部而把臺北的房子賣掉，如果我們跟他說，因為你有獲利就不行用青安，可是獲利要如何追查？","quality":0.782},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:11:47.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:11:50+08:00","text":"他該繳的稅也繳了，所以我們現在已經……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:11:50.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:11:51.833333+08:00","text":"這個是技術問題，是不是可以檢討一下？","quality":0.438},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:11:52.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:11:58.700000+08:00","text":"現在是沒有自有房屋的人，我們去協助他，而且他也只能適用一次。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:11:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:12:09.714286+08:00","text":"好，這是可能的情形，但是更多的情況可能不是這種情形，我覺得應該將這樣的案子做技術性的區分，而且要滾動式檢討。","quality":0.755},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:12:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:12:22.800000+08:00","text":"如果真的有由北向南這種差異性，再把它拉出來，我覺得這部分應該可以透過其他的方式，請財政部把它區隔出來做個報告，這在未來的檢討當中應該要出現。","quality":0.738},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:12:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:12:53.444444+08:00","text":"還有一個問題是，雖然已經有排富，但是有一個缺口，過去租金補貼和社宅資格都是用家戶所得，這次是針對個人所得，可是個人的部分如果是夫婦、couple的，兩個人一個是190萬，另外一個也是190萬，這樣還是有資格，可是他們已經是高所得。","quality":0.694},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:12:54.461538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:13:25.818182+08:00","text":"另外，你們也沒有考慮到資產的部分，有人除了薪資，還有其他包括以利滾利的高所得資產，你們卻沒有把它算進去。","quality":0.66},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:13:26.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:13:33.818182+08:00","text":"所以是不是應該用家戶所得，而且也要把其他資產放進來？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:13:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:13:43.800000+08:00","text":"其實青安3.0在推出之前也經過多次跨部會討論，究竟要用個人或家戶？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:13:44.380952+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:14:00.866667+08:00","text":"如果用家戶的話，可能會走入所謂的婚姻懲罰，如果兩夫妻加起來超過200萬就不適用，我想這不是我們原來的政策目的，所以我們用各借款人的個人所得不超過200萬元，這個部分我們當時都有討論過。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:14:01.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:14:11.857143+08:00","text":"至於要不要把其他資產算進去，主要是其他資產的價值波動性很大，而且變動性也比較快，所以這個部分並沒有把它列入計算，如果……","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:14:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:14:31.800000+08:00","text":"可是部長，你們對於租金補貼和社宅申請條件都可以這樣做，而購屋必須付出的資金成本更多，你們竟然沒有這樣做，這不符合比例原則啊！","quality":0.772},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:14:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:14:36.833333+08:00","text":"部長，你要用這樣的理由來說服本席，我是不接受的，一般社會大眾也不能接受的啊！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:14:36.833333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:14:39+08:00","text":"這樣會造成什麼結果呢？","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:14:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:14:55.777778+08:00","text":"因為這樣好像是在幫助有房地產的人，讓他們容易脫售手中的房子，或是容易去……會有這樣意思啦！","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:14:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:15:08.818182+08:00","text":"所以這部分我覺得應該就考慮到把家戶所得跟資產應該再整體算進去，不然就非常不符合這樣的比例，是不是可以把它考慮進去？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:15:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:15:28.666667+08:00","text":"委員，我還是要再說一遍，青安政策的目的就是協助沒有自有住宅的民眾購買房屋自住使用，我想這個部分非常明確是這樣的一個前提，至於您講的租屋補貼或者購買房屋，租屋跟購買房屋這兩者基本上本身也是不相同的經濟行為。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:15:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:15:34+08:00","text":"這個不是不同的經濟行為，都是讓他取得有房子可以住。","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:15:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:15:47.875000+08:00","text":"我希望在這個部分，財政部必須好好針對這個問題要去做解決，要去理解，事實上這些都有連動性的，因為你們所付出的代價是更多的，而且是國家的補貼。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:15:48.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:16:31.750000+08:00","text":"我們再繼續往下看，另外的一個情況是，對於育兒的部分，這次對婚育家庭也是有幫助，但是所涉及到金額的部分，就是在於婚育的部分，有新婚的就1,200萬，如果還有育兒就到1,500萬，可是對於在育兒初期要降低每月的還款壓力者，事實上，是沒有辦法去幫助的，尤其是我們要知道那個1,200萬、1,500萬的，最重要的是誰要去決定他能夠申貸的額度？","quality":0.876},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:16:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:16:33.750000+08:00","text":"是銀行，還是在財政部？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:16:35.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:16:37+08:00","text":"貸款都是到銀行去辦……對！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:16:37.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:16:42.714286+08:00","text":"銀行必須要根據金融法規的5P原則來審核貸款案件……","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:16:43.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:16:49.250000+08:00","text":"對，照你這樣講，他如果能夠申貸到高的額度，表示他是高所得者，是吧？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:16:49.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:16:50.750000+08:00","text":"相對應的，對吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:16:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:16:59.812500+08:00","text":"不是，我們要求銀行在貸款的時候、民眾來申貸的時候，都要計算他每個月要負擔的本息，都要計算給他……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:17:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:17:37.785714+08:00","text":"對，所以基本上他能夠還款的金額越高，表示所得越高，他才可能會申貸到更高的金額，如果是這樣的話，你可以發現到它的效果就是讓更多的房子是用高價額去做申購、去拿到，但是對於婚育家庭最需要的，在育兒初期的時候，他每月的還款壓力並沒有幫助，而且這邊所看到的是，這個低利息的補貼是由政府去提供，政府的補貼是從哪裡拿出來這個補貼的金額？","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:17:38.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:17:46.750000+08:00","text":"利息的部分，有半碼是由我們公股銀行自行吸收，1.5碼是由住宅基金來做補助的。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:17:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:17:55.428571+08:00","text":"對，但是這些其實都是公共的資源，尤其內政部的住宅基金，都是我們公共的資源。是的。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:17:56.769231+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:18:00.769231+08:00","text":"我們如果以113年來講，到底多了多少的資金呢？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:18:01.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:18:01.750000+08:00","text":"您知道嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:18:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:18:13+08:00","text":"住宅基金，我想是屬於內政部主管，因為都是政府資源，所以我們的補助對象必須要是精準，因此在於購買房屋總價上面也有一個上限的限制，對於高資力、高所得者，並不在適用的範圍之內。","quality":0.766},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-07-22T10:18:13.818182+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:18:46.777778+08:00","text":"部長，如果是婚育，因為這次增加是從1,000萬到1,200萬、1,000萬到1,500萬，都是針對婚育家庭增加的部分，但是最重要的是，它還是針對到高所得的部分，所以我要跟部長強調的是，這個部分所造成的效果是會造成高所得的人，而且並沒有真正幫助到婚育的家庭，所以這邊應該是要好好研議，我在想我剛剛所提出的那三點問題，是不是可以提出研議的報告？","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T10:18:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:18:48.714286+08:00","text":"謝謝質詢……","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:18:48.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:18:49.714286+08:00","text":"我們用書面補充。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T10:18:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:18:50.750000+08:00","text":"你提出書面補充好了，時間已經到了。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T10:18:51.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:18:52.666667+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T10:18:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:18:54.846154+08:00","text":"謝謝劉書彬委員質詢。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T10:18:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:18:57.727273+08:00","text":"下一位請李坤城委員質詢。","quality":1}]},"gazette":{"lineno":301,"blocks":[["劉委員書彬：（10時8分）謝謝主席。有請莊部長。"],["主席：請財政部莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["劉委員書彬：部長好。8月1日就要開始實施青安3.0，請問青安3.0這項政策目的是要雪中送炭，幫助真正首購的青年，還是在錦上添花，補貼本身就有能力的購屋者？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，青安政策從來就是在協助沒有自有住宅的民眾購買房屋自住使用，我們支持青年實現購屋、安心成家的政策目標是沒有變的。"],["劉委員書彬：你當然會這樣回答，因為我們看到的對象是無自有住宅者嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：對，所以青安3.0就做一些精準的協助。"],["劉委員書彬：但是現在我們再問一個問題，就是如果一個人曾經買房，而且賣房也獲利，如今他在申貸時，名下沒有房屋，按照現行規定還是可以申請青安？對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：他曾經買的房子是用青安來貸的話，後來賣掉，這次就不行了。"],["劉委員書彬：不是、不是，我不是問這個，我是說他曾經買過房子，我沒有說他用青安……"],["莊部長翠雲：他曾經……"],["劉委員書彬：我沒有說，你不要多加條件嘛！對不對？是不是可以買？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，他以前買那個房子沒有用青安貸款的協助的話，那他這個房子賣掉，現在要重新買一間，而且他本人名下……"],["劉委員書彬：對，他名下……"],["莊部長翠雲：本人、配偶、未成年子女都沒有房子，那麼他要申請青安的話，就要看是不是符合今天青安3.0所列的條件。"],["劉委員書彬：好，您說本人、配偶，問題是如果他的尊長有呢？其實你們沒有講到這裡嘛！重點就是制度上面有漏洞嘛！因為青安3.0認定的不是真正的首購，而只是目前無房。曾經買賣過房地產甚至還有獲利者怎麼能算是首購，還能申請青安3.0呢？行政院的目的應該是要幫助首購者，現在這樣甚至還可能排擠資源，所以想請財政部再考慮一下。當然，這項政策馬上就要上路了，所以你們的滾動式檢討大概什麼時候會出現？是不是要考慮把這種資源留給第一次購屋的青年？技術上可行嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：現在青安就是一生只能貸一次，如果他之前沒有用過青安，今天可能因為職業變動，從北部調到南部而把臺北的房子賣掉，如果我們跟他說，因為你有獲利就不行用青安，可是獲利要如何追查？他該繳的稅也繳了，所以我們現在已經……"],["劉委員書彬：這個是技術問題，是不是可以檢討一下？"],["莊部長翠雲：現在是沒有自有房屋的人，我們去協助他，而且他也只能適用一次。"],["劉委員書彬：好，這是可能的情形，但是更多的情況可能不是這種情形，我覺得應該將這樣的案子做技術性的區分，而且要滾動式檢討。如果真的有由北向南這種差異性，再把它拉出來，我覺得這部分應該可以透過其他的方式，請財政部把它區隔出來做個報告，這在未來的檢討當中應該要出現。","還有一個問題是，雖然已經有排富，但是有一個缺口，過去租金補貼和社宅資格都是用家戶所得，這次是針對個人所得，可是個人的部分如果是夫婦、couple的，兩個人一個是190萬，另外一個也是190萬，這樣還是有資格，可是他們已經是高所得。另外，你們也沒有考慮到資產的部分，有人除了薪資，還有其他包括以利滾利的高所得資產，你們卻沒有把它算進去。所以是不是應該用家戶所得，而且也要把其他資產放進來？"],["莊部長翠雲：其實青安3.0在推出之前也經過多次跨部會討論，究竟要用個人或家戶？如果用家戶的話，可能會走入所謂的婚姻懲罰，如果兩夫妻加起來超過200萬就不適用，我想這不是我們原來的政策目的，所以我們用各借款人的個人所得不超過200萬元，這個部分我們當時都有討論過。至於要不要把其他資產算進去，主要是其他資產的價值波動性很大，而且變動性也比較快，所以這個部分並沒有把它列入計算，如果……"],["劉委員書彬：可是部長，你們對於租金補貼和社宅申請條件都可以這樣做，而購屋必須付出的資金成本更多，你們竟然沒有這樣做，這不符合比例原則啊！部長，你要用這樣的理由來說服本席，我是不接受的，一般社會大眾也不能接受的啊！這樣會造成什麼結果呢？因為這樣好像是在幫助有房地產的人，讓他們容易脫售手中的房子，或是容易去……會有這樣意思啦！所以這部分我覺得應該就考慮到把家戶所得跟資產應該再整體算進去，不然就非常不符合這樣的比例，是不是可以把它考慮進去？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，我還是要再說一遍，青安政策的目的就是協助沒有自有住宅的民眾購買房屋自住使用，我想這個部分非常明確是這樣的一個前提，至於您講的租屋補貼或者購買房屋，租屋跟購買房屋這兩者基本上本身也是不相同的經濟行為。"],["劉委員書彬：這個不是不同的經濟行為，都是讓他取得有房子可以住。我希望在這個部分，財政部必須好好針對這個問題要去做解決，要去理解，事實上這些都有連動性的，因為你們所付出的代價是更多的，而且是國家的補貼。","我們再繼續往下看，另外的一個情況是，對於育兒的部分，這次對婚育家庭也是有幫助，但是所涉及到金額的部分，就是在於婚育的部分，有新婚的就1,200萬，如果還有育兒就到1,500萬，可是對於在育兒初期要降低每月的還款壓力者，事實上，是沒有辦法去幫助的，尤其是我們要知道那個1,200萬、1,500萬的，最重要的是誰要去決定他能夠申貸的額度？是銀行，還是在財政部？"],["莊部長翠雲：貸款都是到銀行去辦……"],["劉委員書彬：對！"],["莊部長翠雲：銀行必須要根據金融法規的5P原則來審核貸款案件……"],["劉委員書彬：對，照你這樣講，他如果能夠申貸到高的額度，表示他是高所得者，是吧？相對應的，對吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：不是，我們要求銀行在貸款的時候、民眾來申貸的時候，都要計算他每個月要負擔的本息，都要計算給他……"],["劉委員書彬：對，所以基本上他能夠還款的金額越高，表示所得越高，他才可能會申貸到更高的金額，如果是這樣的話，你可以發現到它的效果就是讓更多的房子是用高價額去做申購、去拿到，但是對於婚育家庭最需要的，在育兒初期的時候，他每月的還款壓力並沒有幫助，而且這邊所看到的是，這個低利息的補貼是由政府去提供，政府的補貼是從哪裡拿出來這個補貼的金額？"],["莊部長翠雲：利息的部分，有半碼是由我們公股銀行自行吸收，1.5碼是由住宅基金來做補助的。"],["劉委員書彬：對，但是這些其實都是公共的資源，尤其內政部的住宅基金，都是我們公共的資源。"],["莊部長翠雲：是的。"],["劉委員書彬：我們如果以113年來講，到底多了多少的資金呢？您知道嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：住宅基金，我想是屬於內政部主管，因為都是政府資源，所以我們的補助對象必須要是精準，因此在於購買房屋總價上面也有一個上限的限制，對於高資力、高所得者，並不在適用的範圍之內。"],["劉委員書彬：部長，如果是婚育，因為這次增加是從1,000萬到1,200萬、1,000萬到1,500萬，都是針對婚育家庭增加的部分，但是最重要的是，它還是針對到高所得的部分，所以我要跟部長強調的是，這個部分所造成的效果是會造成高所得的人，而且並沒有真正幫助到婚育的家庭，所以這邊應該是要好好研議，我在想我剛剛所提出的那三點問題，是不是可以提出研議的報告？"],["主席：謝謝質詢……"],["莊部長翠雲：我們用書面補充。"],["主席：你提出書面補充好了，時間已經到了。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝劉書彬委員質詢。","下一位請李坤城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":408,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-23","speakers":["吳秉叡","林楚茵","張智倫","賴士葆","林倩綺","林德福","郭國文","賴惠員","劉書彬","李坤城","林思銘","顏寬恒","李彥秀","王世堅","羅明才","鍾佳濱","許忠信","陳玉珍"],"page_start":361,"meetingDate":["2026-07-22"],"gazette_id":"1156601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「遺產及贈與稅法」12案：（詢答）(一)本院委員吳秉叡等19人、委員郭昱晴等16人、\n委員林楚茵等16人、委員王美惠等17人、委員李坤城等19人、委員郭國文等21人分別擬具「遺產\n及贈與稅法部分條文修正草案」等6案、(二)本院委員賴惠員等16人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第六\n條、第十五條及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員王鴻薇等18人、委員林思銘等18\n人分別擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條條文修正草案」等2案、(四)本院委員張智倫等17人擬具\n「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員李彥秀等16人擬具\n「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條、第十七條之一及第二十九條條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員賴士\n葆等26 人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第三十條及第四十一條條文修正草案」案；二、審查「土地稅\n法」9案：（詢答）(一)本院委員李坤城等18人、委員馬文君等20人分別擬具「土地稅法增訂第\n十七條之一條文草案」等2案、(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等 18人、委員傅崐萁等19\n人、委員李彥秀等18人、委員林倩綺等19人、委員賴士葆等41人、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人\n分別擬具「土地稅法第十七條之一及第十九條條文修正草案」等7案；三、審查「房屋稅條例」9\n案：（詢答）(一)本院委員李坤城等19人、委員馬文君等21人分別擬具「房屋稅條例增訂第五條\n之一條文草案」等2案、(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等19人、委員傅崐萁等19人、委\n員李彥秀等18人、委員林倩綺等19人、委員賴士葆等41人、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人分別擬\n具「房屋稅條例第五條之一及第六條條文修正草案」等7案","agenda_id":"1156601_00017"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}