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Kacaw等16人擬具「能源管理法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）\t本院委員楊瓊瓔等23人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）\t本院委員陳亭妃等20人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）\t本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具「能源管理法部分條文修正草案」案。（詢答）\n（第十三案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查。））","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.56534375,"end":10.054718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.15596875,"end":14.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.594093750000003,"end":18.610343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.06534375,"end":23.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.094718750000002,"end":41.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.56034375,"end":52.174718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.562843750000006,"end":54.149093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.469718750000006,"end":57.760343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.182218750000004,"end":58.77284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.211593750000006,"end":61.945343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.23221875,"end":63.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.45534375,"end":67.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.26096875,"end":67.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.29034375,"end":69.91034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.97784375,"end":75.59721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.27659375,"end":79.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.64784375,"end":75.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.78221875,"end":81.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.57096875,"end":83.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.96721875,"end":88.48971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.59096875,"end":89.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.14346875000001,"end":94.76721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.00346875000001,"end":96.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.79221875,"end":99.47534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.88034375000001,"end":101.50034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.70284375,"end":102.78284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.10346875,"end":106.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.71471875,"end":107.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.06471875000001,"end":108.48659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.58784375,"end":111.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.53659375000001,"end":119.08409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.95784375000001,"end":118.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.17284375000001,"end":118.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.11784375,"end":119.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.13471875,"end":119.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.16846875,"end":119.23596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.23596875000001,"end":122.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.94846875,"end":127.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.41596875000002,"end":132.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.73596875,"end":136.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.29659375,"end":140.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.75159375,"end":143.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.63721875000002,"end":145.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.76346875000002,"end":147.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.16409375,"end":147.78846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.05846875,"end":157.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.82471875000002,"end":161.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.25909375,"end":163.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.63409375,"end":163.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.90409375000002,"end":168.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.01721875,"end":169.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.23221875000002,"end":171.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.88596875000002,"end":174.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.37909375,"end":176.84721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.06659375,"end":179.05784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.29409375,"end":182.34846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.55096875,"end":183.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.58034375000003,"end":184.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.49159375000002,"end":186.14534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.33096875,"end":187.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.81596875000002,"end":189.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.39784375000002,"end":191.22471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.61284375000002,"end":193.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.31284375,"end":199.61159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.94909375,"end":200.47221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.65784375,"end":203.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.47596875000002,"end":204.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.55596875,"end":207.28971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.812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烈焰政府軍事長官員 會場工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生"},{"start":14.34,"end":16.54,"text":"有請鞏部長跟吳署長"},{"start":16.54,"end":18.68,"text":"請進行報告 鞏部長 農業署吳署長"},{"start":18.68,"end":28.68,"text":"部長好 署長好 今天我是說要求競速評估自備發電的設備選項"},{"start":28.68,"end":31.88,"text":"還有盤點我們消防公安都計的配套法規"},{"start":31.88,"end":33.48,"text":"為什麼呢 我們先看一下"},{"start":33.48,"end":36.84,"text":"今天我看之前的委員都詢問過你們的執法"},{"start":36.84,"end":41.480000000000004,"text":"因為你們這次能源管理法因應電力用電的成長需求你們修訂了"},{"start":41.480000000000004,"end":43.96,"text":"而且還有個用電大戶的條款"},{"start":43.96,"end":46.36,"text":"說到5MW以上要自備發電設施"},{"start":46.36,"end":54.28,"text":"結果股市怎麼反應 現在雖然上禮拜到現在股市雲霄飛車"},{"start":54.28,"end":57.879999999999995,"text":"但是儲能股跟能源股好像都還是被看好"},{"start":58.120000000000005,"end":62.040000000000006,"text":"請問部長 今天大家一直問你說公務部執法的內容"},{"start":62.040000000000006,"end":64.04,"text":"你知道為什麼大家都在關心嗎"},{"start":65.4,"end":67.4,"text":"股票的關係還是什麼關係"},{"start":67.4,"end":72.76,"text":"發委員因為這個是有苛責企業界的責任嘛"},{"start":72.76,"end":75.32000000000001,"text":"大家都很關心他會不會被苛責到"},{"start":75.32000000000001,"end":79.64,"text":"所以供應商他就強調你們修法之後你們要買他的產品"},{"start":79.64,"end":83.80000000000001,"text":"需求者他擔心成本我到底要不要去徵購這些設備對不對"},{"start":83.80000000000001,"end":86.76,"text":"所以站在我們企業營運的角度他一定會關心"},{"start":86.84,"end":91.08000000000001,"text":"到底他未來要因應法規的調整他去做什麼樣的配合"},{"start":91.08000000000001,"end":93.56,"text":"好那我們看到這裡面有個很關鍵的"},{"start":93.56,"end":94.92,"text":"過去比較沒有出現的"},{"start":94.92,"end":99.72,"text":"過去我們任何的事業都要有個緊急備援對不對"},{"start":99.72,"end":101.56,"text":"那現在你們對這個自備發電"},{"start":101.56,"end":106.60000000000001,"text":"到底緊急備援可不可以紀錄自備發電的容量當中"},{"start":106.60000000000001,"end":111.08000000000001,"text":"目前部長或者署長你們有沒有一個明確的最後要宣示"},{"start":112.44,"end":116.36000000000001,"text":"就是我們還要跟相關的利害關係人做一些討論"},{"start":116.84,"end":122.84,"text":"那我試著來詮釋一下緊急備援跟自備發電是兩碼子事"},{"start":122.84,"end":125.56,"text":"緊急備援我是百貨公司我不是生產事業"},{"start":125.56,"end":129.08,"text":"但是我要緊急備援電梯不能停照明不能停"},{"start":129.08,"end":132.6,"text":"萬一有這種狀況發生的時候要疏散顧客對不對"},{"start":132.6,"end":136.2,"text":"但是我不需要什麼自備發電來供應我的冷氣"},{"start":136.2,"end":140.6,"text":"因為公共電力網給我營業場所電力我就營業"},{"start":140.6,"end":143.48,"text":"公共電力網中斷我可能就營業中斷"},{"start":143.48,"end":145.64,"text":"我只要把顧客疏散好就好"},{"start":145.72,"end":151,"text":"但是製造業它不同我們希望減輕公共電力網的負荷"},{"start":151,"end":153.64,"text":"希望大電力用戶你要的電自己發"},{"start":153.64,"end":157.16,"text":"所以這是增加了自備發電這樣的要求是不是這個原因"},{"start":158.76,"end":160.04,"text":"也有增加韌性"},{"start":160.04,"end":161.23999999999998,"text":"如果可以增加韌性嘛"},{"start":161.23999999999998,"end":165.88,"text":"減輕公共電網的負荷讓電網的韌性提高"},{"start":165.88,"end":168.83999999999997,"text":"所以這種情況之下過去的傳統備援會用什麼"},{"start":168.83999999999997,"end":170.04,"text":"才有電力嘛"},{"start":170.04,"end":173.88,"text":"不然你看看你後面那個麥克風擴音器後面那個緊急照明"},{"start":173.88,"end":176.92,"text":"它用什麼它接去電池啊"},{"start":176.92,"end":179.07999999999998,"text":"它接我們現在的電力把它充電"},{"start":179.07999999999998,"end":182.35999999999999,"text":"萬一我們現在電力斷了它裡面的充電的電池就怎麼樣"},{"start":182.35999999999999,"end":184.28,"text":"就讓它發光是不是這樣子"},{"start":184.28,"end":187.56,"text":"備援電力一般就是用電池不然就是用柴油發電"},{"start":187.56,"end":189.16,"text":"可是它發電有沒有風險"},{"start":190.28,"end":191.4,"text":"有風險啊"},{"start":191.4,"end":194.12,"text":"過去在我們屏東的安泰醫院又發生什麼"},{"start":194.12,"end":196.6,"text":"它把柴油發電的備援電力在颱風天"},{"start":196.6,"end":198.28,"text":"它放在不該放的地方"},{"start":198.28,"end":200.51999999999998,"text":"引發了這些悲劇"},{"start":200.51999999999998,"end":203.32,"text":"我們很遺憾它有噪音有空位有光暗的風險"},{"start":203.56,"end":207.23999999999998,"text":"所以備援電力的設備選項"},{"start":207.79999999999998,"end":210.84,"text":"我們其實雖然涉及到的是其他的項目"},{"start":210.84,"end":212.44,"text":"但是經濟部要有個明確的說明"},{"start":212.44,"end":215.32,"text":"部長你是不是認為未來我們的備援電力"},{"start":215.88,"end":221.64,"text":"緊急備援應該要有新的想法減少這些有危害性的這些設備"},{"start":223.32,"end":224.51999999999998,"text":"所以報告委員"},{"start":224.51999999999998,"end":228.6,"text":"所以為什麼就是說我們還是要跟這些利害關係人做一些討論"},{"start":228.6,"end":230.2,"text":"原則上來講的話"},{"start":230.28,"end":234.2,"text":"的確你剛才提到備援的部分跟我們這個"},{"start":234.2,"end":235.32,"text":"自備電力"},{"start":235.32,"end":237.95999999999998,"text":"自備電力是有一點點差異"},{"start":237.95999999999998,"end":239.95999999999998,"text":"不是有一點很大的差異"},{"start":239.95999999999998,"end":243.79999999999998,"text":"所以至於我們的緊急備援電力裝置的裝置容量"},{"start":243.79999999999998,"end":245.79999999999998,"text":"會記錄我們自備的電力容量"},{"start":245.79999999999998,"end":247.32,"text":"它用途不是不同的"},{"start":247.32,"end":251.72,"text":"自備電力是你經常性持續性的滿足你自己常態性的需求"},{"start":251.72,"end":252.35999999999999,"text":"舉例來講"},{"start":252.35999999999999,"end":254.51999999999998,"text":"我考過上次之前考過農業部長"},{"start":254.51999999999998,"end":257.15999999999997,"text":"燃料電池它到底是除能還是發電裝置"},{"start":257.16,"end":259.16,"text":"燃料電池是發電式"},{"start":259.16,"end":261.16,"text":"它是發電裝置對不對"},{"start":261.16,"end":263.16,"text":"所以很多人看到電池以為它是除能"},{"start":263.16,"end":265.16,"text":"它是發電裝置"},{"start":265.16,"end":267.16,"text":"當然相較於柴油的備援電力"},{"start":267.16,"end":271.16,"text":"它有它的不同的一個趨勢選項"},{"start":271.16,"end":273.16,"text":"那麼它相較於鋰電池的除能"},{"start":273.16,"end":275.16,"text":"它也有它不同的優勢"},{"start":275.16,"end":279.16,"text":"簡單講柴電呢因為儲存高揮發性的燃料"},{"start":279.16,"end":281.16,"text":"容有火警的危險"},{"start":281.16,"end":283.16,"text":"除能一般的鋰電有高溫的風險"},{"start":283.16,"end":285.16,"text":"燃料電池它相對的"},{"start":285.16,"end":287.16,"text":"它沒有柴油發電的噪音"},{"start":287.16,"end":289.16,"text":"它沒有空汙"},{"start":289.16,"end":291.16,"text":"它也沒有鋰電池的那樣的高溫自然的情況"},{"start":291.16,"end":293.16,"text":"這種情況之下"},{"start":293.16,"end":295.16,"text":"但是目前我們對於緊急備援的柴油發電"},{"start":295.16,"end":297.16,"text":"或者是說鋰電池的除能"},{"start":297.16,"end":299.16,"text":"我們有在建築的相關法規上"},{"start":299.16,"end":301.16,"text":"有相關的配套是不是這樣"},{"start":301.16,"end":303.16,"text":"舉例來講我舉例"},{"start":303.16,"end":3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.16,"text":"放在哪裡是不是請經濟部做"},{"start":509.16,"end":511.16,"text":"一個全盤的"},{"start":511.16,"end":513.1600000000001,"text":"評估之後有一個明確的"},{"start":513.1600000000001,"end":515.1600000000001,"text":"跟社會訴求不是只是在能源"},{"start":515.1600000000001,"end":517.1600000000001,"text":"管理法當中做一些局部的"},{"start":517.1600000000001,"end":519.1600000000001,"text":"修改讓大家只見其數"},{"start":519.1600000000001,"end":521.1600000000001,"text":"不見其靈可以嗎"},{"start":521.1600000000001,"end":523.1600000000001,"text":"謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}