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他不是累犯"},{"start":734,"end":736,"text":"累犯才是有罪判決確定"},{"start":736,"end":738,"text":"你們這裡說"},{"start":738,"end":740,"text":"我們要再犯"},{"start":740,"end":742,"text":"這個再犯沒有錯"},{"start":742,"end":744,"text":"但是你的條文內容就是說"},{"start":744,"end":746,"text":"懲犯本條"},{"start":746,"end":748,"text":"第四條"},{"start":748,"end":750,"text":"經有罪判決確定獲"},{"start":750,"end":752,"text":"緩起訴處分"},{"start":752,"end":754,"text":"但是這個緩起訴處分"},{"start":754,"end":756,"text":"在學界有滿大的爭議"},{"start":756,"end":758,"text":"我們應該要有所回應"},{"start":758,"end":760,"text":"為什麼我們一個未經法院"},{"start":760,"end":762,"text":"審理他的事實上未經法院"},{"start":762,"end":764,"text":"審理他是檢察官"},{"start":764,"end":766,"text":"這邊就做緩起訴處分"},{"start":766,"end":768,"text":"你們這緩起訴處分你們也納入這個"},{"start":768,"end":770,"text":"這個部分我覺得應該要有所回應"},{"start":770,"end":772,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":772,"end":774,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":774,"end":776,"text":"謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:29:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:29:58+08:00","text":"主席，請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T10:30:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:30:01.500000+08:00","text":"有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:30:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:30:03.333333+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:30:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:30:05.333333+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:30:06.869565+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:30:21.333333+08:00","text":"今天有關刑法第一百八十五條之三的修正草案，議程列出來，總共有56個草案，包括院版在內，草案非常、非常多。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:30:22.380952+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:30:32.700000+08:00","text":"我看裡面絕大多數就是以提高刑責為主，但是每一個人的草案有不一樣的刑度、有不一樣的要件修改。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:30:33.818182+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:30:58.571429+08:00","text":"我比對了一下，文字一模一樣的只有10個，其他每一個委員所提的都不一樣，都是提高刑度，但提高刑度的標準、樣態都各有不同，所以我主要就是以院版的部分來請教一下次長。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:31:03.434783+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:31:18.647059+08:00","text":"剛剛很多委員都提到毒駕，目前社會上大家多麼重視，毒駕對社會的危害到了一般人民無法接受的程度。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:31:19.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:31:28.777778+08:00","text":"事實上，整個毒駕的部分在短短幾年內，我們其實修法修了非常多次，不斷地提高刑度，而且不斷地修改。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:31:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:32:00.720000+08:00","text":"我們從1999年、民國88年，第一次把服用毒品致不能安全駕駛納入不能安全駕駛罪，到現在已經27年了，這27年內我們做了許多次的修改，包括把酒駕不以發生具體危險變成抽象危險犯，到3年前，我們也把毒駕納入抽象危險犯的範疇。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:32:04.769231+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:32:10.833333+08:00","text":"等於是在幾年內我們再一次修法，這一次修法的重點到底是什麼？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:32:12.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:32:22.800000+08:00","text":"我看院版的修法大概就是三個重點，第一個是最特別的，我等一下可能也會跟次長探討，就是我們把酒駕跟毒駕分流了。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:32:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:32:47.769231+08:00","text":"過去的不能安全駕駛罪，酒駕跟毒駕是同樣在第一項的四款要件，法律效果都一樣，但是這次我們把它分開了、分流了，酒駕變成第一項，毒駕變成第二項，違反第一項跟第二項，整個法律效果都不一樣，就把酒駕跟毒駕分流了，這是這次修法的第一個重點。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:32:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:33:04.807692+08:00","text":"第二個，分流之後，我們把毒駕部分的刑度提高了，這是修法的第二個重點，也就是酒駕維持原本的刑度，但是把毒駕部分的刑度提高了，因為分流之後，才可以單獨把毒駕部分的刑度提高。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:33:05.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:33:15.777778+08:00","text":"第三個就是新增毒駕致死傷的車輛沒收規定。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:33:16.761905+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:33:19.809524+08:00","text":"我看這三個重點就是我們今天要討論的。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:33:21.153846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:33:59.750000+08:00","text":"有關於第三個沒收的部分，1個月前、6月8號，我那時候在這裡跟部長就酒駕、毒駕的車輛沒收問題主張要修法，這種義務沒收等於是沒收的特別規定，一定要修法才有辦法執行，你沒有辦法用所謂的「供犯罪所用、犯罪預備之物」，沒有辦法適用這一條，一定要有特別規定。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:34:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:34:11.857143+08:00","text":"那這一次修法等於就把這個特別規定納入了，就是本席那時候所主張有關沒收的特別規定，這個部分我肯定，我認為這個修法方向是正確的。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:34:12.631579+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:34:39.800000+08:00","text":"回到我們剛剛所講的，我看外國立法例，我先列出外國立法例，不管德國也好，日本也好，英國也好，加拿大也好，這些大部分的外國立法例，我幾乎從來沒有看過有把酒駕跟毒駕分流的規定，不能安全駕駛罪幾乎都是合在一起，不管你是受酒精影響，還是受麻醉物品影響，受藥物影響，我這裡都列出來，大概都是合在一起。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:34:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:34:50.800000+08:00","text":"但是我們這一次很特別，在各國所有的立法例裡面，我們應該算是非常特別的，我看到把酒駕跟毒駕分流了。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:34:51.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:34:58.555556+08:00","text":"我們做了這樣子的規定，我沒有反對，但是我們要談清楚為什麼我們把它分流。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:35:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:35:23.733333+08:00","text":"我看你們立法理由是說，其實酒駕跟毒駕保護的法益都一樣，就是公共交通安全還有用路人的生命、身體安全的個人法益，保障的法益都一樣，但你們提到為什麼把它分流，是因為酒駕跟毒駕本質惡害性不同。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:35:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:35:28.777778+08:00","text":"這個部分要請次長說明，本質惡害性哪裡不同？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:35:29.562500+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:35:31.812500+08:00","text":"本質惡害性不同的依據是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:35:32.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:36:11.833333+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們毒品之所以為毒品，毒品危害防制條例明文規定，它因為有成癮性、濫用性跟社會危害性，所以毒品本質上就是有社會危害性，而刑罰的刑責要符合罪責相當，在決定罪責的時候，社會危害性也是決定罪責輕重一個非常重要的參考，所以毒駕、毒品的罪責為什麼比較重，就是因為它對社會造成的社會危害是……因為毒品一旦施用之後，可能造成人員傷亡的社會危害更大於酒駕，在這個狀況之下，我們認為毒駕跟酒駕的罪責是不一樣的，所以做差異性的處理。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:36:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:36:25.818182+08:00","text":"吸毒跟喝酒的法律評價當然是不一樣的，但是就不能安全駕駛這件事情上面，這兩個東西其實世界各國立法例都是放在一起的。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:36:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:36:36.800000+08:00","text":"所以這個部分我覺得要有一個說法，你們就是要有一個說法，要告訴社會、告訴法界，我們為什麼把酒駕跟毒駕分開來評價。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:36:40.571429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:37:04.833333+08:00","text":"問題又來了，我們在評價上，剛才次長所講的，對社會本質的惡害性不同，我們認為其危險性跟罪責評價都應該要分開來，但是在後面有關於特別再犯的規定，我們又把這兩個合在一起。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:37:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:37:16.846154+08:00","text":"也就是說，我們現在前面規定酒駕就酒駕的法律要件，毒駕就毒駕的法律要件，但是有關再犯的部分，你卻把酒駕跟毒駕合併計算了。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:37:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:37:25.823529+08:00","text":"這個我都不反對，只是說在邏輯上面，次長是不是能夠在這個部分做一點說明？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:37:26.470588+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:37:34.727273+08:00","text":"或者是在過去的統計上面，對於酒駕跟毒駕交叉再犯，有做過這樣的統計嗎？","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:37:35.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:37:38.833333+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，十年內再犯的話，我們刑責還是做不一樣的處理。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:37:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:37:49.866667+08:00","text":"不是，我是說酒駕再犯酒駕的可能很多，毒駕再犯毒駕可能很多，但是酒駕然後再犯毒駕，我們現在後面的規定……因為我們前面把酒駕跟毒駕分開了嘛。了解。","quality":0.698},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:37:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:37:53.800000+08:00","text":"但是現在關於再犯的規定，我們又把兩個合併計算。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:37:54.307692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:37:55.846154+08:00","text":"我們現在為什麼有特別處罰？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:37:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:06.700000+08:00","text":"是因為把再犯毒駕跟酒駕做不同的評價，他前面是毒駕或酒駕，我們不論，因為他前面已經有個毒駕或酒駕行為，我們現在處罰的是後面他再犯毒駕或酒駕而有不同……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:18.714286+08:00","text":"對，但是後面的毒駕跟酒駕，你們前面把它分開來了，犯罪構成要件把它分開來了，分開來之後，你在再犯的條件上面又把它合併了。","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:18.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:19.714286+08:00","text":"對，我了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:20.800000+08:00","text":"這個在邏輯上面有點……","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:27.600000+08:00","text":"委員，我了解，前面他無論是毒駕或酒駕，我們現在處罰的是他再犯，他因為再犯……","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:28.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:34.363636+08:00","text":"因為再犯有再犯的定義，你不能說我過去有竊盜，結果我今天又殺人，你說這個叫再犯，這不對！","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:34.727273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:35.818182+08:00","text":"法律上不是這樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:43.600000+08:00","text":"我的意思是你前面把它分開來評價了，但是你現在卻又把再犯的酒駕跟毒駕合併計算，這個在法邏輯上面是不是有點矛盾？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:44.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:49.600000+08:00","text":"報告委員，如果這樣的話，邏輯上會非常複雜，它的排列組合會非常多，毒駕、毒駕；毒駕、酒駕；酒駕、毒駕……","quality":0.675},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:51.750000+08:00","text":"你們現在就是這樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:51.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:52.750000+08:00","text":"我們現在沒有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:53.888889+08:00","text":"你的意思是如果分開評價會變得非常複雜。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:39:07.888889+08:00","text":"會變得非常複雜，所以我們現在前面無論是毒駕或酒駕，都是前面的犯罪，你後面只要再犯毒駕或酒駕，我們就你後面的毒駕或酒駕做不同的處理，而不是你前面犯的是什麼，前面只要是犯公共危險，就會構成我們的前犯。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:39:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:39:21.800000+08:00","text":"好，這部分我沒有反對了，我只是覺得，你們前面既然把酒駕、毒駕分開來評價，但是再犯的時候，你又把兩種不同的行為態樣合併計算。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:39:24.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:39:43.846154+08:00","text":"特別再犯制度除了這個部分以外，其實學界對於這個特別再犯制度還有蠻多的質疑，這幾年來，這個特別再犯制度這次並沒有修改，這是原本的條文，第五項跟第六項有關酒駕再犯跟毒駕再犯，它是一個特別再犯的規定。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:39:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:39:59.666667+08:00","text":"我們一般的累犯規定在刑法第四十七條，裡面有累犯的規定，但是我們這裡有特別規定，把五年放寬到十年，過去是五年內再犯，才算是累犯，我們現在把這個條文改到十年……","quality":0.729},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:40:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:40:02.857143+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實我們不是累犯的概念，它是再犯……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:40:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:40:05.777778+08:00","text":"對，它是特別再犯嘛。對。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:40:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:40:11.500000+08:00","text":"所以你們把期限弄到十年，這是第一個爭議。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:40:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:40:45.875000+08:00","text":"第二個，你們在規定上面，有就有罪判決確定跟緩起訴處分確定兩個都作為再犯的條件；有罪判決確定當然沒有問題，他就是再犯，但是所謂緩起訴處分，這個部分在法界上面其實有蠻大的……我想次長應該知道，法界上面對於緩起訴處分，事實上它經法院審理，而是由檢察官作成緩起訴處分了嘛。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:40:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:40:59.833333+08:00","text":"事實上這整個犯罪事實不曾經過法院調查，但是你們在這個再犯的規定裡面，卻把緩起訴處分的效果等同有罪判決確定。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:41:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:41:15.833333+08:00","text":"這個我也不反對啦，因為事實上過去很多酒駕，例如說在鄉下，歐吉桑喝了保力達後騎摩托車，你這個也要起訴，要在法院審。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:41:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:41:19.866667+08:00","text":"過去因為有很多這種狀況，所以在檢察官部分就把他緩起訴掉了。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:41:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:41:29.500000+08:00","text":"但是緩起訴也不一定是這種狀況，也有可能案情單純，認罪後就把他緩起訴了，是初犯，就把他緩起訴。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:41:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:41:36.888889+08:00","text":"這個緩起訴處分確定你也把它當作再犯的一個條件，這部分學界有質疑。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:41:37.111111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:41:41.777778+08:00","text":"我不反對，本席不反對，但是學界有質疑，我覺得我們應該要有所回應。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:41:42+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:41:53.857143+08:00","text":"所以我剛才說他不是累犯的概念，累犯是人家有罪，執行完畢後，五年內再犯叫累犯，我們現在不是，我們之所以叫再犯，是他前面有一個公共危險的事實，有這個事實的存在，我們後面再加重，所以他不是累犯……","quality":0.726},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:41:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:41:58.666667+08:00","text":"這個事實的存在，有罪判決確定，當然沒有問題……","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:41:58.888889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:41:59.777778+08:00","text":"報告委員，他不是累犯。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:41:59.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:00.777778+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:42:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:01.800000+08:00","text":"累犯才是有罪判決確定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:42:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:03.600000+08:00","text":"沒有，你們這裡說……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:42:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:05.600000+08:00","text":"我們叫再犯。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:42:06.571429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:17.600000+08:00","text":"對，再犯沒有錯，但是你的條文內容就是曾犯本條或陸海空軍刑法第五十四條，經有罪判決確定或經緩起訴處分。","quality":0.717},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:42:17.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:18.600000+08:00","text":"對，沒有錯，它是「或」的概念。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-07-22T10:42:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:35.857143+08:00","text":"對，但是這個緩起訴處分的部分在學界有蠻大的爭議，我希望我們應該要有所回應，就是他的犯罪事實未經法院審理，檢察官就做緩起訴處分，這個緩起訴處分，你們也納入再犯的要件，這部分我覺得應該要有所回應，好不好？以上。","quality":0.71},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T10:42:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:37+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T10:42:37.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:54.357143+08:00","text":"謝謝沈委員非常專業的詢問，本席剛剛也有提到，就是有關於這個人可能先喝酒，然後再吸毒，有肇事這樣的情況的話，到底在法律上要怎麼評價？","quality":0.034},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T10:42:54.657143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:59.800000+08:00","text":"我們到時候逐條審查的時候再來一起討論。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T10:43:00.100000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:43:02.671429+08:00","text":"接下來有請范雲委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":989,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（10時29分）主席，請次長。"],["主席：有請次長。"],["黃次長謀信：委員好。"],["沈委員發惠：次長好。今天有關刑法第一百八十五條之三的修正草案，議程列出來，總共有56個草案，包括院版在內，草案非常、非常多。我看裡面絕大多數就是以提高刑責為主，但是每一個人的草案有不一樣的刑度、有不一樣的要件修改。我比對了一下，文字一模一樣的只有10個，其他每一個委員所提的都不一樣，都是提高刑度，但提高刑度的標準、樣態都各有不同，所以我主要就是以院版的部分來請教一下次長。","剛剛很多委員都提到毒駕，目前社會上大家多麼重視，毒駕對社會的危害到了一般人民無法接受的程度。事實上，整個毒駕的部分在短短幾年內，我們其實修法修了非常多次，不斷地提高刑度，而且不斷地修改。我們從1999年、民國88年，第一次把服用毒品致不能安全駕駛納入不能安全駕駛罪，到現在已經27年了，這27年內我們做了許多次的修改，包括把酒駕不以發生具體危險變成抽象危險犯，到3年前，我們也把毒駕納入抽象危險犯的範疇。","等於是在幾年內我們再一次修法，這一次修法的重點到底是什麼？我看院版的修法大概就是三個重點，第一個是最特別的，我等一下可能也會跟次長探討，就是我們把酒駕跟毒駕分流了。過去的不能安全駕駛罪，酒駕跟毒駕是同樣在第一項的四款要件，法律效果都一樣，但是這次我們把它分開了、分流了，酒駕變成第一項，毒駕變成第二項，違反第一項跟第二項，整個法律效果都不一樣，就把酒駕跟毒駕分流了，這是這次修法的第一個重點。第二個，分流之後，我們把毒駕部分的刑度提高了，這是修法的第二個重點，也就是酒駕維持原本的刑度，但是把毒駕部分的刑度提高了，因為分流之後，才可以單獨把毒駕部分的刑度提高。第三個就是新增毒駕致死傷的車輛沒收規定。我看這三個重點就是我們今天要討論的。有關於第三個沒收的部分，1個月前、6月8號，我那時候在這裡跟部長就酒駕、毒駕的車輛沒收問題主張要修法，這種義務沒收等於是沒收的特別規定，一定要修法才有辦法執行，你沒有辦法用所謂的「供犯罪所用、犯罪預備之物」，沒有辦法適用這一條，一定要有特別規定。那這一次修法等於就把這個特別規定納入了，就是本席那時候所主張有關沒收的特別規定，這個部分我肯定，我認為這個修法方向是正確的。","回到我們剛剛所講的，我看外國立法例，我先列出外國立法例，不管德國也好，日本也好，英國也好，加拿大也好，這些大部分的外國立法例，我幾乎從來沒有看過有把酒駕跟毒駕分流的規定，不能安全駕駛罪幾乎都是合在一起，不管你是受酒精影響，還是受麻醉物品影響，受藥物影響，我這裡都列出來，大概都是合在一起。但是我們這一次很特別，在各國所有的立法例裡面，我們應該算是非常特別的，我看到把酒駕跟毒駕分流了。我們做了這樣子的規定，我沒有反對，但是我們要談清楚為什麼我們把它分流。我看你們立法理由是說，其實酒駕跟毒駕保護的法益都一樣，就是公共交通安全還有用路人的生命、身體安全的個人法益，保障的法益都一樣，但你們提到為什麼把它分流，是因為酒駕跟毒駕本質惡害性不同。這個部分要請次長說明，本質惡害性哪裡不同？本質惡害性不同的依據是什麼？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，我們毒品之所以為毒品，毒品危害防制條例明文規定，它因為有成癮性、濫用性跟社會危害性，所以毒品本質上就是有社會危害性，而刑罰的刑責要符合罪責相當，在決定罪責的時候，社會危害性也是決定罪責輕重一個非常重要的參考，所以毒駕、毒品的罪責為什麼比較重，就是因為它對社會造成的社會危害是……因為毒品一旦施用之後，可能造成人員傷亡的社會危害更大於酒駕，在這個狀況之下，我們認為毒駕跟酒駕的罪責是不一樣的，所以做差異性的處理。"],["沈委員發惠：吸毒跟喝酒的法律評價當然是不一樣的，但是就不能安全駕駛這件事情上面，這兩個東西其實世界各國立法例都是放在一起的。所以這個部分我覺得要有一個說法，你們就是要有一個說法，要告訴社會、告訴法界，我們為什麼把酒駕跟毒駕分開來評價。問題又來了，我們在評價上，剛才次長所講的，對社會本質的惡害性不同，我們認為其危險性跟罪責評價都應該要分開來，但是在後面有關於特別再犯的規定，我們又把這兩個合在一起。也就是說，我們現在前面規定酒駕就酒駕的法律要件，毒駕就毒駕的法律要件，但是有關再犯的部分，你卻把酒駕跟毒駕合併計算了。這個我都不反對，只是說在邏輯上面，次長是不是能夠在這個部分做一點說明？或者是在過去的統計上面，對於酒駕跟毒駕交叉再犯，有做過這樣的統計嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，十年內再犯的話，我們刑責還是做不一樣的處理。"],["沈委員發惠：不是，我是說酒駕再犯酒駕的可能很多，毒駕再犯毒駕可能很多，但是酒駕然後再犯毒駕，我們現在後面的規定……因為我們前面把酒駕跟毒駕分開了嘛。"],["黃次長謀信：了解。"],["沈委員發惠：但是現在關於再犯的規定，我們又把兩個合併計算。"],["黃次長謀信：我們現在為什麼有特別處罰？是因為把再犯毒駕跟酒駕做不同的評價，他前面是毒駕或酒駕，我們不論，因為他前面已經有個毒駕或酒駕行為，我們現在處罰的是後面他再犯毒駕或酒駕而有不同……"],["沈委員發惠：對，但是後面的毒駕跟酒駕，你們前面把它分開來了，犯罪構成要件把它分開來了，分開來之後，你在再犯的條件上面又把它合併了。"],["黃次長謀信：對，我了解。"],["沈委員發惠：這個在邏輯上面有點……"],["黃次長謀信：委員，我了解，前面他無論是毒駕或酒駕，我們現在處罰的是他再犯，他因為再犯……"],["沈委員發惠：因為再犯有再犯的定義，你不能說我過去有竊盜，結果我今天又殺人，你說這個叫再犯，這不對！法律上不是這樣。我的意思是你前面把它分開來評價了，但是你現在卻又把再犯的酒駕跟毒駕合併計算，這個在法邏輯上面是不是有點矛盾？"],["黃次長謀信：報告委員，如果這樣的話，邏輯上會非常複雜，它的排列組合會非常多，毒駕、毒駕；毒駕、酒駕；酒駕、毒駕……"],["沈委員發惠：你們現在就是這樣。"],["黃次長謀信：我們現在沒有……"],["沈委員發惠：你的意思是如果分開評價會變得非常複雜。"],["黃次長謀信：會變得非常複雜，所以我們現在前面無論是毒駕或酒駕，都是前面的犯罪，你後面只要再犯毒駕或酒駕，我們就你後面的毒駕或酒駕做不同的處理，而不是你前面犯的是什麼，前面只要是犯公共危險，就會構成我們的前犯。"],["沈委員發惠：好，這部分我沒有反對了，我只是覺得，你們前面既然把酒駕、毒駕分開來評價，但是再犯的時候，你又把兩種不同的行為態樣合併計算。特別再犯制度除了這個部分以外，其實學界對於這個特別再犯制度還有蠻多的質疑，這幾年來，這個特別再犯制度這次並沒有修改，這是原本的條文，第五項跟第六項有關酒駕再犯跟毒駕再犯，它是一個特別再犯的規定。我們一般的累犯規定在刑法第四十七條，裡面有累犯的規定，但是我們這裡有特別規定，把五年放寬到十年，過去是五年內再犯，才算是累犯，我們現在把這個條文改到十年……"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，其實我們不是累犯的概念，它是再犯……"],["沈委員發惠：對，它是特別再犯嘛。"],["黃次長謀信：對。"],["沈委員發惠：所以你們把期限弄到十年，這是第一個爭議。第二個，你們在規定上面，有就有罪判決確定跟緩起訴處分確定兩個都作為再犯的條件；有罪判決確定當然沒有問題，他就是再犯，但是所謂緩起訴處分，這個部分在法界上面其實有蠻大的……我想次長應該知道，法界上面對於緩起訴處分，事實上它經法院審理，而是由檢察官作成緩起訴處分了嘛。事實上這整個犯罪事實不曾經過法院調查，但是你們在這個再犯的規定裡面，卻把緩起訴處分的效果等同有罪判決確定。這個我也不反對啦，因為事實上過去很多酒駕，例如說在鄉下，歐吉桑喝了保力達後騎摩托車，你這個也要起訴，要在法院審。過去因為有很多這種狀況，所以在檢察官部分就把他緩起訴掉了。但是緩起訴也不一定是這種狀況，也有可能案情單純，認罪後就把他緩起訴了，是初犯，就把他緩起訴。這個緩起訴處分確定你也把它當作再犯的一個條件，這部分學界有質疑。我不反對，本席不反對，但是學界有質疑，我覺得我們應該要有所回應。"],["黃次長謀信：所以我剛才說他不是累犯的概念，累犯是人家有罪，執行完畢後，五年內再犯叫累犯，我們現在不是，我們之所以叫再犯，是他前面有一個公共危險的事實，有這個事實的存在，我們後面再加重，所以他不是累犯……"],["沈委員發惠：這個事實的存在，有罪判決確定，當然沒有問題……"],["黃次長謀信：報告委員，他不是累犯。"],["沈委員發惠：我知道。"],["黃次長謀信：累犯才是有罪判決確定。"],["沈委員發惠：沒有，你們這裡說……"],["黃次長謀信：我們叫再犯。"],["沈委員發惠：對，再犯沒有錯，但是你的條文內容就是曾犯本條或陸海空軍刑法第五十四條，經有罪判決確定或經緩起訴處分。"],["黃次長謀信：對，沒有錯，它是「或」的概念。"],["沈委員發惠：對，但是這個緩起訴處分的部分在學界有蠻大的爭議，我希望我們應該要有所回應，就是他的犯罪事實未經法院審理，檢察官就做緩起訴處分，這個緩起訴處分，你們也納入再犯的要件，這部分我覺得應該要有所回應，好不好？以上。"],["黃次長謀信：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝沈委員非常專業的詢問，本席剛剛也有提到，就是有關於這個人可能先喝酒，然後再吸毒，有肇事這樣的情況的話，到底在法律上要怎麼評價？我們到時候逐條審查的時候再來一起討論。","接下來有請范雲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-36-26","speakers":["翁曉玲","洪孟楷","陳昭姿","張智倫","林倩綺","林沛祥","張雅琳","沈發惠","范雲","莊瑞雄","許宇甄","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","蔡其昌","吳宗憲","傅崐萁","柯志恩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-22"],"gazette_id":"1156502","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156502_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)行政院、司法院函請審議「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、\n(二)委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三)委員廖\n先翔等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之四條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員洪孟楷等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五)委員徐\n欣瑩等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之四條文修正草案」案、\n(六)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之四條文修正\n草案」案、(七)委員柯志恩等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、\n(八)委員林倩綺等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(九)委員邱\n若華等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十)委員萬美玲等19人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之四條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員\n陳亭妃等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃秀芳等\n20人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員林思銘等21人擬具「中華民\n國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第\n一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員陳菁徽等22人擬具「中\n華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員張智倫等16人擬具「中華民國刑\n法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百\n八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條\n之三、第一百八十五條之四及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」案、(二十)台灣民眾黨黨團擬\n具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「中\n華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十二)委員葉元之等18人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十三)委員王義川等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第\n一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十四)委員賴士葆等25人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八\n十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十五)委員涂權吉等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條\n之三及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」案、(二十六)委員楊瓊瓔等31人擬具「中華民國刑法\n第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十七)委員魯明哲等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百\n八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十八)委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五\n條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十九)委員王育敏等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三\n條文修正草案」案、(三十)委員黃健豪等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正\n草案」案、(三十一)委員王美惠等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」\n案、( 三十二) 委員陳素月等17 人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、\n(三十三)委員林淑芬等26人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三十\n四)委員李坤城等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三十五)委\n員盧縣一等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」\n案、( 三十六) 委員謝龍介等16 人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、\n(三十七)委員羅智強等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三十\n八)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三十九)委\n員李彥秀等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十)委員許宇甄\n等23人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十一)委員萬美玲等17人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、( 四十二) 委員林楚茵等17 人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十三)委員羅美玲等16人擬具「中華\n民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十四)委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「中華民國刑\n法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十五)委員張宏陸等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第一\n百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」案、(四十六)委員李柏毅等16人擬具「中\n華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十七)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十八)委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等18人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、 ( 四十九) 委員蔡易餘等16 人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十)委員徐富癸等17人擬具「中華民\n國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十一)委員何欣純等19人擬具「中華民國刑法\n第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十二)委員林宜瑾等23人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百\n八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十三)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五\n條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十四)委員劉建國等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三\n條文修正草案」案、(五十五)委員賴惠員等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修\n正草案」案、( 五十六) 委員郭昱晴等16 人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草\n案」案","agenda_id":"1156502_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}