{"error":false,"id":["170646"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170646,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170646","日期":"2026-07-22","會議資料":null,"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-22T10:16:37+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-22T10:42:28+08:00","影片長度":"00:25:51","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7469000803f9b6aacd08e81edc47b9b4a27d63d5dbb97eb2aeb2ac4a95fc824b741abac731c48f905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"10:16:37 - 10:42:28","會議時間":"2026-07-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"（變更議程）立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）\n邀請衛生福利部部長、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護處、經濟部、法務部、國防部及教育部就「致癌食用油成因、流向、稽查、資訊公開、風險評估、團體訴訟、求償機制，行政法律究責、未來具體改進措施及期程等事宜」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n邀請衛生福利部部長、行政院食品安全辦公室、教育部及農業部就「近期發布《農藥殘留容許量標準》(如其中蘋果芬普寧藥殘標準從0.5ppm放寬至3.0ppm等)之各項依據及修正標準」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n討論事項\n一、審查行政院函送財團法人國家衛生研究院115年度工作計畫及收支預算案。\n二、審查衛生福利部函送財團法人醫院評鑑暨醫療品質策進會等9家財團法人115年度預算書案。\n【以上專題報告及預算案綜合詢答；預算案，僅詢答，115年7月30日下午5時截止收案】\n（下午2時30分起，若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n三、繼續審查及審查「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」等73案。\n(一)繼續審查行政院函請審議「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)繼續審查委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)繼續審查委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)繼續審查委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(五)繼續審查委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n......（完整內容，詳見議事日程）\n(六十四)審查委員高金素梅等18人擬具「國民年金法第三十一條、第五十三條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(六十五)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六十六)審查委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六十七)審查委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六十八)審查委員賴士葆等25人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(六十九)審查委員廖偉翔等21人擬具「國民年金法第三十九條、第三十九條之一及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n(七十)審查委員涂權吉等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(七十一)審查委員林思銘等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條、第三十一條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n(七十二)審查國民黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第三十九條、第三十九條之一及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n(七十三)審查委員游顥等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【逐條討論，不詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.45221875,"end":8.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5.312843750000001,"end":6.122843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8.51909375,"end":9.177218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.26534375,"end":13.227218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.227218750000002,"end":21.934718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.301593750000002,"end":56.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.798468750000005,"end":68.66159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.91471875,"end":81.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.40221875,"end":96.69096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.45034375,"end":99.40784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.69471875,"end":126.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.35284375,"end":129.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.54221875000002,"end":135.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.46096875,"end":141.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.39284375,"end":151.19721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.49659375000002,"end":153.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.96034375000002,"end":157.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.66034375,"end":160.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.17034375,"end":164.32596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.57909375,"end":165.10221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.41409375,"end":169.40534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.84409375,"end":199.17284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.56096875,"end":201.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.92346875,"end":203.02034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":204.92721875,"end":204.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.94409375,"end":205.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":205.45034375,"end":210.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":210.54659375,"end":211.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":212.20034375,"end":228.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.20659375000002,"end":231.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":229.44659375,"end":250.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.59596875000003,"end":267.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":250.74284375000002,"end":251.51909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":264.24284375,"end":264.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.41534375000003,"end":306.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.48096875000005,"end":309.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":306.70034375,"end":309.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.21471875000003,"end":312.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.65721875,"end":326.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.20784375,"end":346.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":327.77721875000003,"end":330.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.11596875000004,"end":348.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.05659375000005,"end":351.75659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.02659375,"end":352.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.06034375,"end":356.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":355.03034375000004,"end":370.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":371.55096875000004,"end":386.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.03034375000004,"end":382.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.05971875,"end":397.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.61034375,"end":396.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":397.90971875,"end":420.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.37784375,"end":401.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.60659375,"end":423.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":421.38284375,"end":423.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":423.94784375,"end":425.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.80846875000003,"end":434.24159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.24159375000005,"end":434.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.66346875000005,"end":446.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.05034375,"end":445.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":446.76284375,"end":449.53034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.53034375000004,"end":449.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":449.64846875,"end":450.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.03659375,"end":450.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.30659375000005,"end":451.01534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":450.45846875,"end":450.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.47534375000004,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{"start":668.2399999999999,"end":670.2399999999999,"text":"誰要為這個決策負責"},{"start":670.2399999999999,"end":672.2399999999999,"text":"誰為這個決策負責"},{"start":672.2399999999999,"end":674.2399999999999,"text":"這個當然我來負責"},{"start":674.2399999999999,"end":676.2399999999999,"text":"好"},{"start":676.2399999999999,"end":678.2399999999999,"text":"那我們再看下一張"},{"start":678.2399999999999,"end":680.2399999999999,"text":"這個是你昨天講的"},{"start":680.2399999999999,"end":682.24,"text":"我們把聲音播出來"},{"start":682.8,"end":684.8,"text":"本篇題"},{"start":684.8,"end":686.8,"text":"是一級之來物"},{"start":686.8,"end":688.8,"text":"這個是科學"},{"start":688.8,"end":690.8,"text":"我們在這個科學基礎上去做的"},{"start":690.8,"end":692.8,"text":"風險影響評估所訂出的標準"},{"start":692.8,"end":694.8,"text":"這個還必須考慮到世界的公通性原則"},{"start":694.8,"end":696.8,"text":"比如說在這個標準上我國是定2 ppb"},{"start":696.8,"end":698.8,"text":"但是中國是定10 ppb"},{"start":698.8,"end":700.8,"text":"韓國是2 ppb跟我們一樣"},{"start":700.8,"end":702.8,"text":"日本美國是沒有訂定這個標準"},{"start":702.8,"end":704.8,"text":"歐盟是2 ppb"},{"start":704.8,"end":706.8,"text":"所以當時候最早在這個食品安全的風險評估會議"},{"start":706.8,"end":708.8,"text":"有專家在討論只在低層的油品去做"},{"start":708.8,"end":710.8,"text":"下降原則而沒有涉及到相關價值制品"},{"start":711.3599999999999,"end":713.3599999999999,"text":"他也同時考量到國際的一致性標準的問題"},{"start":713.3599999999999,"end":715.3599999999999,"text":"那麼舉例而言當我們這些商品"},{"start":715.3599999999999,"end":717.3599999999999,"text":"是來自於未訂標準的國家的商品"},{"start":717.3599999999999,"end":719.3599999999999,"text":"是否可以進口"},{"start":719.3599999999999,"end":721.3599999999999,"text":"如果我們不斷地去擴大這個跟國際不同標準的原則的話"},{"start":721.3599999999999,"end":723.3599999999999,"text":"那麼同時也會有國際貿易的一致情形"},{"start":723.3599999999999,"end":725.3599999999999,"text":"所以這個是在我們做這些決策的時候"},{"start":725.3599999999999,"end":727.3599999999999,"text":"都必須同時考量"},{"start":727.3599999999999,"end":729.3599999999999,"text":"我們必須確保民眾的食品食用的安全"},{"start":729.3599999999999,"end":731.3599999999999,"text":"第一你覺得你聽得懂你在講什麼嗎"},{"start":731.3599999999999,"end":733.3599999999999,"text":"我們在告訴你國內有非法的治癌"},{"start":733.3599999999999,"end":735.3599999999999,"text":"到處活動"},{"start":735.3599999999999,"end":737.3599999999999,"text":"你在那邊講說你的標準"},{"start":737.3599999999999,"end":739.3599999999999,"text":"是因為怕外國的東西"},{"start":739.92,"end":741.92,"text":"沒有辦法輸入"},{"start":741.92,"end":743.92,"text":"這個誤解了"},{"start":743.92,"end":745.92,"text":"我要跟大家說明的"},{"start":745.92,"end":747.92,"text":"自癌物的規範"},{"start":747.92,"end":749.92,"text":"第幾級的自癌物"},{"start":749.92,"end":751.92,"text":"這個是由世界"},{"start":751.92,"end":753.92,"text":"IARRC所訂出來的"},{"start":753.92,"end":755.92,"text":"對"},{"start":755.92,"end":757.92,"text":"幾級的自癌物是來自於在"},{"start":757.92,"end":759.92,"text":"動物實驗上"},{"start":759.92,"end":761.92,"text":"他的證據強度"},{"start":761.92,"end":763.9200000000001,"text":"不等於他的毒性容許量"},{"start":763.9200000000001,"end":765.9200000000001,"text":"是多少"},{"start":765.9200000000001,"end":767.9200000000001,"text":"所以他雖然被定為一級自癌物"},{"start":768.4799999999999,"end":770.4799999999999,"text":"同屬一級自癌物的包含9"},{"start":770.4799999999999,"end":772.4799999999999,"text":"所以如何去定出"},{"start":772.4799999999999,"end":774.4799999999999,"text":"後面他的"},{"start":774.4799999999999,"end":776.4799999999999,"text":"毒性或者是對自癌的"},{"start":776.4799999999999,"end":778.4799999999999,"text":"強度有多少"},{"start":778.4799999999999,"end":780.4799999999999,"text":"那個是要在另外一個風險"},{"start":780.4799999999999,"end":782.4799999999999,"text":"所以在定這個標準的時候"},{"start":782.4799999999999,"end":784.4799999999999,"text":"我在講的是說"},{"start":784.4799999999999,"end":786.4799999999999,"text":"我們過去"},{"start":786.4799999999999,"end":788.4799999999999,"text":"食藥署所訂出來第一層"},{"start":788.4799999999999,"end":790.4799999999999,"text":"下架這個是跟歐盟是切齊的"},{"start":790.4799999999999,"end":792.48,"text":"歐盟就是"},{"start":792.48,"end":794.48,"text":"2ppb的油品標準"},{"start":794.48,"end":796.48,"text":"下架原則就是第一層"},{"start":797.04,"end":799.04,"text":"所以當年所訂的是跟歐盟切齊"},{"start":799.04,"end":801.04,"text":"並沒有"},{"start":801.04,"end":803.04,"text":"並不是說去放寬"},{"start":803.04,"end":805.04,"text":"後來我們是在"},{"start":805.04,"end":807.04,"text":"這個事件之後去加嚴"},{"start":807.04,"end":809.04,"text":"所以不是放寬"},{"start":809.04,"end":811.04,"text":"首先你剛剛在台上已經講的很清楚了"},{"start":811.04,"end":813.04,"text":"你說我是衛福部部長"},{"start":813.04,"end":815.04,"text":"我就是守護全民的健康"},{"start":815.04,"end":817.04,"text":"沒錯"},{"start":817.04,"end":819.04,"text":"你這個是經濟部長在講的"},{"start":819.04,"end":821.04,"text":"不是我只是在說明"},{"start":821.04,"end":823.04,"text":"當年訂第一層下架"},{"start":823.04,"end":825.04,"text":"他是按照跟歐盟一樣的標準"},{"start":825.5999999999999,"end":827.5999999999999,"text":"那我們就來講這個"},{"start":827.5999999999999,"end":829.5999999999999,"text":"我們這次這個事件其實是加嚴的"},{"start":829.5999999999999,"end":831.5999999999999,"text":"你那麼在意這國是怎麼樣"},{"start":831.5999999999999,"end":833.5999999999999,"text":"那一國是怎麼樣"},{"start":833.5999999999999,"end":835.5999999999999,"text":"我們發現你昨天早上"},{"start":835.5999999999999,"end":837.5999999999999,"text":"到下午"},{"start":837.5999999999999,"end":839.5999999999999,"text":"緊急的更換你的說法"},{"start":839.5999999999999,"end":841.5999999999999,"text":"你說有一批油"},{"start":841.5999999999999,"end":843.5999999999999,"text":"本來是去日本"},{"start":843.5999999999999,"end":845.5999999999999,"text":"好像口誤了"},{"start":845.5999999999999,"end":847.5999999999999,"text":"最後你才說查出來是去韓國"},{"start":847.5999999999999,"end":849.5999999999999,"text":"你什麼時候通知韓國的"},{"start":849.5999999999999,"end":851.5999999999999,"text":"昨天"},{"start":851.5999999999999,"end":853.5999999999999,"text":"這個我抱歉啦"},{"start":854.16,"end":856.16,"text":"所以去講成是日本"},{"start":856.16,"end":858.16,"text":"其實是韓國"},{"start":858.16,"end":860.16,"text":"那麼在這個之前就已經"},{"start":860.16,"end":862.16,"text":"廠商他就已經通知他的下游了"},{"start":862.16,"end":864.16,"text":"廠商什麼時候通知韓國"},{"start":864.16,"end":866.16,"text":"日期查一下"},{"start":866.16,"end":868.16,"text":"你日月30號"},{"start":868.16,"end":870.16,"text":"我看到你的新聞稿"},{"start":870.16,"end":872.16,"text":"是7月6號就知道"},{"start":872.16,"end":874.16,"text":"30個批號囉"},{"star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回來"},{"start":1069.52,"end":1071.52,"text":"你不講話你沒講"},{"start":1071.52,"end":1073.52,"text":"然後呢另外一個"},{"start":1073.52,"end":1075.52,"text":"國防外交委員會的委員問出來了"},{"start":1075.52,"end":1077.52,"text":"他說國軍已經吃掉50幾桶"},{"start":1077.52,"end":1079.52,"text":"你不用知道"},{"start":1079.52,"end":1081.52,"text":"你不用知道你"},{"start":1082.08,"end":1084.08,"text":"應該要做到多少有哪一些你應該"},{"start":1084.08,"end":1086.08,"text":"誠實的跟人民交代"},{"start":1086.08,"end":1088.08,"text":"回收不回來了嗎"},{"start":1088.08,"end":1090.08,"text":"你這樣不是跟環境部一樣嗎"},{"start":1090.08,"end":1092.08,"text":"環境部說光電板風災完"},{"start":1092.08,"end":1094.08,"text":"片片有序號全部回收回來"},{"start":1094.08,"end":1096.08,"text":"最後環境部跟經濟部"},{"start":1096.08,"end":1098.08,"text":"一起出來說片片收不回來"},{"start":1098.08,"end":1100.08,"text":"然後現在獨有也是啊"},{"start":1100.08,"end":1102.08,"text":"你統統找不回來"},{"start":1102.08,"end":1104.08,"text":"你不誠實面對大家"},{"start":1104.08,"end":1106.08,"text":"你們連一個"},{"start":1106.08,"end":1108.08,"text":"儀表板都沒有"},{"start":1108.08,"end":1110.08,"text":"你連外府部官網一個儀表板都沒有"},{"start":1110.6399999999999,"end":1112.6399999999999,"text":"我今天回收多少了"},{"start":1112.6399999999999,"end":1114.6399999999999,"text":"然後告訴大家說多少真的被吃掉了"},{"start":1114.6399999999999,"end":1116.6399999999999,"text":"還有其他委員會"},{"start":1116.6399999999999,"end":1118.6399999999999,"text":"一個一個委員去問"},{"start":1118.6399999999999,"end":1120.6399999999999,"text":"跟委員說明"},{"start":1120.6399999999999,"end":1122.6399999999999,"text":"這個事件啊"},{"start":1122.6399999999999,"end":1124.6399999999999,"text":"是因為廠商延遲通報"},{"start":1124.6399999999999,"end":1126.6399999999999,"text":"那麼久所以造成"},{"start":1126.6399999999999,"end":1128.6399999999999,"text":"我們要追回的時效"},{"start":1128.6399999999999,"end":1130.6399999999999,"text":"嚴重的延遲"},{"start":1130.6399999999999,"end":1132.6399999999999,"text":"這個是廠商這不良的"},{"start":1132.6399999999999,"end":1134.6399999999999,"text":"廠商隱匿通報"},{"start":1134.6399999999999,"end":1136.6399999999999,"text":"那我們沒有辦法即時去回收"},{"start":1136.6399999999999,"end":1138.6399999999999,"text":"所以我們所回收"},{"start":1139.2,"end":1141.2,"text":"都已經公佈多少的量"},{"start":1141.2,"end":1143.2,"text":"我們都公佈"},{"start":1143.2,"end":1145.2,"text":"你覺得有一點悲觀"},{"start":1145.2,"end":1147.2,"text":"都是因為廠商"},{"start":1147.2,"end":1149.2,"text":"所以現在7成回收"},{"start":1149.2,"end":1151.2,"text":"不回來了"},{"start":1151.2,"end":1153.2,"text":"事實就是如此啊"},{"start":1153.2,"end":1155.2,"text":"你跟全國人民說嘛"},{"start":1155.2,"end":1157.2,"text":"你跟全國人民說"},{"start":1157.2,"end":1159.2,"text":"你就說我是守護食安的"},{"start":1159.2,"end":1161.2,"text":"衛福部部長"},{"start":1161.2,"end":1163.2,"text":"但是我必須很遺憾的告訴大家說"},{"start":1163.2,"end":1165.2,"text":"7成回收不回來我現在極限就是回收3成"},{"start":1165.2,"end":1167.2,"text":"是這個意思嗎"},{"start":1167.76,"end":1169.76,"text":"現在的事實就是延遲通報"},{"start":1169.76,"end":1171.76,"text":"讓主管機關無法"},{"start":1171.76,"end":1173.76,"text":"即時的介入去回收"},{"start":1173.76,"end":1175.76,"text":"你一直說他延遲通報"},{"start":1175.76,"end":1177.76,"text":"然後你7月21成立調查小組"},{"start":1177.76,"end":1179.76,"text":"你有多"},{"start":1179.76,"end":1181.76,"text":"你多在乎"},{"start":1181.76,"end":1183.76,"text":"7月21進廠去做"},{"start":1183.76,"end":1185.76,"text":"最後的確認"},{"start":1185.76,"end":1187.76,"text":"我們的所有的資料的比對"},{"start":1187.76,"end":1189.76,"text":"然後對於我們這一份報告"},{"start":1189.76,"end":1191.76,"text":"做最後的確認"},{"start":1191.76,"end":1193.76,"text":"因為我們要完成這份"},{"start":1193.76,"end":1195.76,"text":"這個禮拜就會完成這個調查報告"},{"start":1196.32,"end":1198.32,"text":"那你很簡單的告訴大家"},{"start":1198.32,"end":1200.32,"text":"你覺得有幾%你已經放棄了"},{"start":1200.32,"end":1202.32,"text":"追不回來了"},{"start":1202.32,"end":1204.32,"text":"目前能夠回收到的"},{"start":1204.32,"end":1206.32,"text":"就是這個數量"},{"start":1206.32,"end":1208.32,"text":"極限了啦"},{"start":1208.32,"end":1210.32,"text":"就是我們公布的這個數量"},{"start":1210.32,"end":1212.32,"text":"好在這邊你剛說的很清楚喔"},{"start":1212.32,"end":1214.32,"text":"7月21號你只是進廠去確認"},{"start":1214.32,"end":1216.32,"text":"所有的事情"},{"start":1216.32,"end":1218.32,"text":"我跟你說你們有幾種說法了"},{"start":1218.32,"end":1220.32,"text":"你們有人說黃豆有問題"},{"start":1220.32,"end":1222.32,"text":"有人說黃豆跟制程有問題"},{"start":1222.32,"end":1224.32,"text":"書巧會說制程有問題"},{"start":1224.8799999999999,"end":1226.8799999999999,"text":"林季怡說原料制程有問題"},{"start":1226.8799999999999,"end":1228.8799999999999,"text":"石崇良說"},{"start":1228.8799999999999,"end":1230.8799999999999,"text":"檢體被掉包了"},{"start":1230.8799999999999,"end":1232.8799999999999,"text":"那你現在到底可以全國人民只關心"},{"start":1232.8799999999999,"end":1234.8799999999999,"text":"這件事怎麼發生的"},{"start":1234.8799999999999,"end":1236.8799999999999,"text":"你釐清了嗎"},{"start":1236.8799999999999,"end":1238.8799999999999,"text":"所有的事件都是一連串"},{"start":1238.8799999999999,"end":1240.8799999999999,"text":"都有關聯性"},{"start":1240.8799999999999,"end":1242.8799999999999,"text":"不能說就是一個原因"},{"start":1242.8799999999999,"end":1244.8799999999999,"text":"如果事情這麼單純就好解決"},{"start":1244.8799999999999,"end":1246.8799999999999,"text":"當然它有它的複雜度"},{"start":1246.8799999999999,"end":1248.8799999999999,"text":"再加上它的檢體"},{"start":1248.8799999999999,"end":1250.8799999999999,"text":"不確實"},{"start":1250.8799999999999,"end":1252.8799999999999,"text":"我們一開始檢驗的它的殘留檢體"},{"start":1253.44,"end":1255.44,"text":"全部都是合格的"},{"start":1255.44,"end":1257.44,"text":"這個完全跟事實"},{"start":1257.44,"end":1259.44,"text":"最後的事實完全是"},{"start":1259.44,"end":1261.44,"text":"被離的"},{"start":1261.44,"end":1263.44,"text":"所以才會增加我們在"},{"start":1263.44,"end":1265.44,"text":"確認這個調查事件當的難度"},{"start":1265.44,"end":1267.44,"text":"所以我們才會花了很多的時間"},{"start":1267.44,"end":1269.44,"text":"你昨天的新聞稿是"},{"start":1269.44,"end":1271.44,"text":"你昨天的新聞稿寫說"},{"start":1271.44,"end":1273.44,"text":"孔就是你懷疑"},{"start":1273.44,"end":1275.44,"text":"是因為黃豆的這個"},{"start":1275.44,"end":1277.44,"text":"烹煮的過程"},{"start":1277.44,"end":1279.44,"text":"我們姑且不論"},{"start":1279.44,"end":1281.44,"text":"6月30號到7月28號"},{"start":1282,"end":1284,"text":"你現在有辦法告訴我們7月28號"},{"start":1284,"end":1286,"text":"你終於可以知道結果了"},{"start":1286,"end":1288,"text":"因為你們說21號進場"},{"start":1288,"end":1290,"text":"28號就有完整的調查報告"},{"start":1290,"end":1292,"text":"就可以確認這個調查報告"},{"start":1292,"end":1294,"text":"就是我們看到很多的"},{"start":1294,"end":1296,"text":"這個不合標準的地方"},{"start":1296,"end":1298,"text":"但是最後要"},{"start":1298,"end":1300,"text":"由專家來確認"},{"start":1300,"end":1302,"text":"它的因果關聯性"},{"start":1302,"end":1304,"text":"所以你28號終於會告訴大家為什麼了"},{"start":1304,"end":1306,"text":"28號會告訴大家為什麼"},{"start":1306,"end":1308,"text":"昨天已經進場"},{"start":1308,"end":1310,"text":"去做確認"},{"start":1310.56,"end":1312.56,"text":"這個專家小組正在撰寫"},{"start":1312.56,"end":1314.56,"text":"這一份最後的調查報告"},{"start":1314.56,"end":1316.56,"text":"28號以前會看到"},{"start":1316.56,"end":1318.56,"text":"比起以前"},{"start":1318.56,"end":1320.56,"text":"蔡其昌啦"},{"start":1320.56,"end":1322.56,"text":"陳其邁啦民進黨官網"},{"start":1322.56,"end":1324.56,"text":"以前叫行政院長下台的這些人"},{"start":1326.56,"end":1328.56,"text":"你現在我們仔細精算"},{"start":1328.56,"end":1330.56,"text":"6月30號到7月28號以前"},{"start":1330.56,"end":1331.36,"text":"30天"},{"start":1331.36,"end":1333.36,"text":"你們對自己的容許值"},{"start":1333.36,"end":1335.36,"text":"我們剛剛一直在講容許值"},{"start":1335.36,"end":1337.36,"text":"你們對自己的容許值也放寬10倍了"},{"start":1337.36,"end":1339.36,"text":"最在意"},{"start":1339.9199999999998,"end":1341.9199999999998,"text":"行政院長要不要下台的"},{"start":1341.9199999999998,"end":1343.9199999999998,"text":"現在在機場擺拍"},{"start":1343.9199999999998,"end":1345.9199999999998,"text":"上禮拜你說你好關心"},{"start":1345.9199999999998,"end":1347.9199999999998,"text":"石安的一個委員你去跟他單獨開會"},{"start":1347.9199999999998,"end":1349.9199999999998,"text":"他關心嗎"},{"start":1349.9199999999998,"end":1351.9199999999998,"text":"他上禮拜質詢"},{"start":1351.9199999999998,"end":1353.9199999999998,"text":"有來這裡嗎他今天有來這裡嗎"},{"start":1353.9199999999998,"end":1355.9199999999998,"text":"你需要去跟他報告"},{"start":1355.9199999999998,"end":1357.9199999999998,"text":"什麼嗎你需要跟他開"},{"start":1357.9199999999998,"end":1359.9199999999998,"text":"什麼會嗎你有跟他學到什麼嗎"},{"start":1359.9199999999998,"end":1361.9199999999998,"text":"他兩年來林安"},{"start":1361.9199999999998,"end":1363.9199999999998,"text":"石安林質詢"},{"start":1363.9199999999998,"end":1365.9199999999998,"text":"林質詢江志剛"},{"start":1365.9199999999998,"end":1367.9199999999998,"text":"署長他7月6號"},{"start":1368.48,"end":1370.48,"text":"早上去跟沈柏楊開會"},{"start":1370.48,"end":1372.48,"text":"因為他說沈柏楊很在乎石安"},{"start":1374.48,"end":1376.48,"text":"他這個臉在乎嗎"},{"start":1376.48,"end":1378.48,"text":"我想所有的"},{"start":1378.48,"end":1380.48,"text":"委員的這個"},{"start":1380.48,"end":1382.48,"text":"質詢我們都會配合"},{"start":1382.48,"end":1384.48,"text":"因為他上禮拜說因為他特別在意"},{"start":1384.48,"end":1386.48,"text":"石安所以他去跟他開會"},{"start":1386.48,"end":1388.48,"text":"可是他也沒來質詢"},{"start":1388.48,"end":1390.48,"text":"上次也沒來質詢今天也沒來質詢"},{"start":1390.48,"end":1392.48,"text":"你的標準真的好怪"},{"start":1392.48,"end":1394.48,"text":"所有的委員的官員"},{"start":1394.48,"end":1396.48,"text":"我們都盡量的配合"},{"start":1397.04,"end":1399.04,"text":"好最後啦最後我們來看"},{"start":1399.04,"end":1401.04,"text":"你們昨天自己覺得"},{"start":1401.04,"end":1403.04,"text":"應該是中聯在去年"},{"start":1403.04,"end":1405.04,"text":"調整了黃豆"},{"start":1405.04,"end":1407.04,"text":"熱損率放寬了10倍"},{"start":1407.04,"end":1409.04,"text":"放寬10倍"},{"start":1409.04,"end":1411.04,"text":"這個熱損率是"},{"start":1411.04,"end":1413.04,"text":"不好意思我已經把你2014到2016"},{"start":1413.04,"end":1415.04,"text":"你寫好多文章看完了"},{"start":1415.04,"end":1417.04,"text":"我今天也不用問你誰寫的因為我已經知道了"},{"start":1417.04,"end":1419.04,"text":"你很在意的HACCP"},{"start":1419.04,"end":1421.04,"text":"你當時也大力的"},{"start":1421.04,"end":1423.04,"text":"檢討你覺得HACCP"},{"start":1423.04,"end":1425.04,"text":"這個系統是一套"},{"start":1425.04,"end":1427.04,"text":"世界上公認對石安"},{"start":1427.04,"end":1429.04,"text":"最具成效最具有預防性的"},{"start":1429.04,"end":1431.04,"text":"自主性管理系統"},{"start":1431.04,"end":1433.04,"text":"從聯託到產品之內的每一個"},{"start":1433.04,"end":1435.04,"text":"步驟事前的分析可能"},{"start":1435.04,"end":1437.04,"text":"產生的危害"},{"start":1437.04,"end":1439.04,"text":"我們要問你你的HACCP"},{"start":1439.04,"end":1441.04,"text":"系統去年有看到"},{"start":1441.04,"end":1443.04,"text":"他們這個節點嗎他們改變了"},{"start":1443.04,"end":1445.04,"text":"他們的熱損傷率你看到嗎"},{"start":1447.04,"end":1449.04,"text":"這個我想在"},{"start":1449.04,"end":1451.04,"text":"茶廠的部分喔是主要"},{"start":1451.04,"end":1453.04,"text":"是由地方去執行我在講"},{"start":1453.04,"end":1455.04,"text":"在地方在執行的時候"},{"start":1455.04,"end":1457.04,"text":"那麼去看這些文件"},{"start":1457.04,"end":1459.04,"text":"是他在茶廠的當中"},{"start":1459.04,"end":1461.04,"text":"那麼可能是其中的一部分"},{"start":1461.04,"end":1463.04,"text":"部長我們一起來閱讀閱讀他"},{"start":1463.04,"end":1465.04,"text":"我心裡寫的節奏"},{"start":1465.04,"end":1467.04,"text":"HACCP"},{"start":1467.04,"end":1469.04,"text":"並非零缺點他2014年"},{"start":1469.04,"end":1471.04,"text":"就知道了他2014年"},{"start":1471.04,"end":1473.04,"text":"就知道了以石油油為例"},{"start":1473.04,"end":1475.04,"text":"政府必須建立安全的架構"},{"start":1475.04,"end":1477.04,"text":"全新的基準把"},{"start":1477.04,"end":1479.04,"text":"油品盡最大的能力去做"},{"start":1479.04,"end":1481.04,"text":"比對建立食品科學"},{"start":1481.04,"end":1483.04,"text":"認證機制讓所有"},{"start":1483.04,"end":1485.04,"text":"的下游廠商甚至是消費者"},{"start":1485.04,"end":1487.04,"text":"利用HACCP不同節點"},{"start":1487.04,"end":1489.04,"text":"的概念才能把油品對"},{"start":1489.04,"end":1491.04,"text":"身體的危害降到最低保障"},{"start":1491.04,"end":1493.04,"text":"全民的健康他2014年"},{"start":1493.04,"end":1495.04,"text":"寫的這麼好他上個兩年"},{"start":1495.04,"end":1497.04,"text":"多什麼都沒做現在問你一個"},{"start":1497.04,"end":1499.04,"text":"節點你們有抓到嗎你們答"},{"start":1499.04,"end":1501.04,"text":"不出來耶"},{"start":1501.04,"end":1503.04,"text":"從我們現在這一次的調查確實"},{"start":1503.04,"end":1505.04,"text":"也發現他幾個節點上"},{"start":1505.04,"end":1507.04,"text":"沒有符合標準"},{"start":1507.04,"end":1509.04,"text":"這是我昨天有特別提到"},{"start":1509.04,"end":1511.04,"text":"就是在這個"},{"start":1511.04,"end":1513.04,"text":"去年試緊你們了嗎"},{"start":1513.04,"end":1515.04,"text":"既然節點你們有發現有問題"},{"start":1515.04,"end":1517.04,"text":"你不就應該中央"},{"start":1517.04,"end":1519.04,"text":"系統就知道了嗎"},{"start":1519.04,"end":1521.04,"text":"那個查場我剛剛提到這是地方"},{"start":1521.04,"end":1523.04,"text":"政府啊HACCP是你們"},{"start":1523.04,"end":1525.04,"text":"的系統HACCP是定一個流程"},{"start":1525.04,"end":1527.04,"text":"但是實際上的查"},{"start":1527.04,"end":1529.04,"text":"他有沒有按照HACCP"},{"start":1529.04,"end":1531.04,"text":"執行這個是地方"},{"start":1531.04,"end":1533.04,"text":"查場但是他之前就知道"},{"start":1533.04,"end":1535.04,"text":"有缺點他署長"},{"start":1535.04,"end":1537.04,"text":"在當教授就知道有缺點他"},{"start":1537.04,"end":1539.04,"text":"覺得HACCP要改進"},{"start":1539.04,"end":1543.04,"text":"他如果把他2014到2026想做的事"},{"start":1543.04,"end":1545.04,"text":"都在上任後做完"},{"start":1545.04,"end":1547.04,"text":"我們現在還會落到這種地步嗎"},{"start":1547.04,"end":1549.04,"text":"好今天就問到這樣謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}