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無人機"},{"start":414.5,"end":416.5,"text":"或者是一些船艦"},{"start":416.5,"end":418.5,"text":"所以這個其實我們面對到的是兩面"},{"start":418.5,"end":420.5,"text":"一方面是我們要面對"},{"start":420.5,"end":422.5,"text":"部長我們到底要採取什麼樣的態度"},{"start":422.5,"end":424.5,"text":"我們要表達立場但又不能被"},{"start":424.5,"end":426.5,"text":"中共利用"},{"start":426.5,"end":428.5,"text":"然後我們跟一些國家"},{"start":428.5,"end":430.5,"text":"其實又有共同的利害"},{"start":430.5,"end":432.5,"text":"但是也有衝突"},{"start":432.5,"end":434.5,"text":"可是這衝突我們不贊成用"},{"start":434.5,"end":436.5,"text":"武力的方式來解決"},{"start":436.5,"end":438.5,"text":"應該透過和平的手段"},{"start":438.5,"end":440.5,"text":"另外就是我們台灣"},{"start":440.5,"end":442.5,"text":"應該要參與"},{"start":442.5,"end":444.5,"text":"再來就是我們希望透過"},{"start":444.5,"end":446.5,"text":"各自爭議共同開發"},{"start":446.5,"end":448.5,"text":"來做一些比較建設性的"},{"start":448.5,"end":450.5,"text":"項目"},{"start":450.5,"end":452.5,"text":"台灣願意以這個態度來扮演一個"},{"start":452.5,"end":454.5,"text":"在這個南海地區"},{"start":454.5,"end":456.5,"text":"一個比較積極的"},{"start":456.5,"end":458.5,"text":"正向的一個"},{"start":458.5,"end":460.5,"text":"利害關係的"},{"start":460.5,"end":462.5,"text":"我想以部長能力應該可以好好的處理這些事情"},{"start":462.5,"end":464.5,"text":"另外最後"},{"start":464.5,"end":466.5,"text":"因為我長期都在勞動界"},{"start":466.5,"end":468.5,"text":"剛剛我看到田委員講到強迫勞動的部分"},{"start":468.5,"end":470.5,"text":"現在三立馬上"},{"start":470.5,"end":472.5,"text":"美國可能"},{"start":472.5,"end":474.5,"text":"報導說就是要用強迫勞動"},{"start":474.5,"end":476.5,"text":"剛剛部長也回答了很多"},{"start":476.5,"end":478.5,"text":"就像經濟部那邊的一些"},{"start":478.5,"end":480.5,"text":"狀況"},{"start":480.5,"end":482.5,"text":"是不是透過一些外交的手段"},{"start":482.5,"end":484.5,"text":"可以跟美國再來做一些宣示說"},{"start":484.5,"end":486.5,"text":"我們其實已經不是"},{"start":486.5,"end":488.5,"text":"有這麼多問題的一個地方"},{"start":488.5,"end":490.5,"text":"的國家"},{"start":490.5,"end":492.5,"text":"我跟委員報告其實美方知道台灣做得很好"},{"start":492.5,"end":494.5,"text":"它這個是談判的策略"},{"start":494.5,"end":496.5,"text":"因為就是ART"},{"start":496.5,"end":498.5,"text":"憲法的解釋"},{"start":498.5,"end":500.5,"text":"所以它現在"},{"start":500.5,"end":502.5,"text":"時間很趕"},{"start":502.5,"end":504.5,"text":"它就可以用的工具相對"},{"start":504.5,"end":506.5,"text":"所以實質上"},{"start":506.5,"end":508.5,"text":"我們的理解"},{"start":508.5,"end":510.5,"text":"台灣並沒有"},{"start":510.5,"end":512.5,"text":"像有一些國家"},{"start":512.5,"end":514.5,"text":"強迫勞動"},{"start":514.5,"end":516.5,"text":"當然有時候發生個案我們就好好把個案處理好"},{"start":516.5,"end":518.5,"text":"可是就通案上來講台灣是表現非常"},{"start":518.5,"end":520.5,"text":"有一些法令"},{"start":520.5,"end":522.5,"text":"或是人權的一些相關的"},{"start":522.5,"end":524.5,"text":"國際"},{"start":524.5,"end":526.5,"text":"條約或什麼"},{"start":526.5,"end":528.5,"text":"我們就是"},{"start":528.5,"end":530.5,"text":"要遵守"},{"start":530.5,"end":532.5,"text":"我們自我要求"},{"start":532.5,"end":534.5,"text":"就是說這個"},{"start":534.5,"end":536.5,"text":"我們的船"},{"start":536.5,"end":538.5,"text":"有一些涉及到"},{"start":538.5,"end":540.5,"text":"管理或經營的模式"},{"start":540.5,"end":542.5,"text":"這個當然要不斷的精進"},{"start":542.5,"end":544.5,"text":"可是怎麼樣我能夠確保我們的漁業"},{"start":544.5,"end":546.5,"text":"不受傷害其實這個都很細緻"},{"start":546.5,"end":548.5,"text":"但我要講的就是請大家放心"},{"start":548.5,"end":550.5,"text":"台灣不管是"},{"start":550.5,"end":552.5,"text":"所謂的在強迫勞動"},{"start":552.5,"end":554.5,"text":"或者是所謂的"},{"start":554.5,"end":556.5,"text":"的遺產地"},{"start":556.5,"end":558.5,"text":"這些行為上台灣都是"},{"start":558.5,"end":560.5,"text":"現在其實標準我們自我要求"},{"start":560.5,"end":562.5,"text":"都相當的高"},{"start":562.5,"end":564.5,"text":"其實就關稅的談判"},{"start":564.5,"end":566.5,"text":"大家要有信心"},{"start":566.5,"end":568.5,"text":"雖然ART現在"},{"start":568.5,"end":570.5,"text":"因為這個"},{"start":570.5,"end":572.5,"text":"涉及到違憲解釋可是他還有其他的法源"},{"start":572.5,"end":574.5,"text":"拿來用在時間內"},{"start":574.5,"end":576.5,"text":"我們都可以得到相對比較好的"},{"start":576.5,"end":578.5,"text":"就是不管是關稅或是"},{"start":578.5,"end":580.5,"text":"有關於"},{"start":580.5,"end":582.5,"text":"貿易或投資或供應鏈"},{"start":582.5,"end":584.5,"text":"上面比較好對我們"},{"start":584.5,"end":586.5,"text":"權益的保障"},{"start":586.5,"end":588.5,"text":"那因為我是保護學者所以我"},{"start":588.5,"end":590.5,"text":"不瞞部長說我最近也在"},{"start":590.5,"end":592.5,"text":"積極的在跟勞動部"},{"start":592.5,"end":594.5,"text":"或者經濟部或是漁業署這邊"},{"start":594.5,"end":596.5,"text":"都在做一些協調"},{"start":596.5,"end":598.5,"text":"希望真正在這個方面有一些進展"},{"start":598.5,"end":600.5,"text":"不要再動不動"},{"start":600.5,"end":602.5,"text":"就被拿來做威脅"},{"start":602.5,"end":604.5,"text":"那也請部長我們"},{"start":604.5,"end":606.5,"text":"多多可以跟我們一起協助"},{"start":606.5,"end":608.5,"text":"我們一起來努力"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:36:06.192308+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:36:06.769231+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:36:06.961538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:36:08.307692+08:00","text":"有請林佳龍部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T10:36:08.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:36:09.250000+08:00","text":"請林部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:36:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:36:16.500000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:36:16.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:36:17.250000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:36:19.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:37:14.857143+08:00","text":"立法院對於外交部在拓展外交的經費上一直都是大力支持的，雖然我2月才來，不過就已經發生了好幾件事情，第一件事是跟立陶宛有關，他要叫我們代表處更名，後來又有南非要我們的辦事處撤離首都，剛剛我看到其他委員也有在講巴紐的事情，不過最新的應該跟泰國總理有關，好像是泰國總理應邀到中國去出席一個人工智能大會，而且會晤了他們的相關人士，會後他發表了一個中共跟泰國的聯合聲明，其中就講到幾件事情，包含臺灣是中國領土不可分割的一部分等等，外交部也發了聲明，我留一點時間讓部長來表達一下我們的立場。","quality":0.888},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:37:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:37:58.100000+08:00","text":"是，我已經有表達對於泰國政府扈從中國扭曲、矮化臺灣的地位，我們表達抗議，也對於泰國政府這樣的做法，雖然是被脅迫的，但是我們仍表達失望跟遺憾，因為我也提醒，臺泰之間有很好的經貿、人民的往來，也有很多的投資，去講那個……因為這個裡面會涉及到，如果把扈從中國的一中原則這些說法，甚至讓他可以以此來對於海外，包括臺灣的投資都會有影響，這是不利於雙方的。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:37:58.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:04.681818+08:00","text":"因為好像我們跟泰國最近的關係都不錯，他們給我們免簽，讓我們去泰國做一些投資，這個機會……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:05.045455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:32.318182+08:00","text":"我可以跟委員說明，其實我們在外交上的空間是很大的，而且大家都看到，中共只是在強迫那些比較扈從的國家，其實是他沒有自信，所以每個聲明都要去加這一段，你看美國、日本、G7或印太第一島鏈，其實相對來講，對於中共的威脅，大家都是感同身受的，所以在理念上也支持臺灣。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:32.944444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:38:46.300000+08:00","text":"因此，中共就去迫使全球南方的國家，幾乎已經達到凡事都要先唸一下一中原則的地步，這個是他沒有自信，也是我們外交上的突破。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:38:46.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:39:04.366667+08:00","text":"另外，他也是在做某種反制，比如說，我們有些突破之後，他一定會想要在一些外交場合上討回去，外交的攻防其實是牽一髮而動全身的，比如說PNG（巴布亞紐幾內亞），這個事情當然已經醞釀很久了，但為什麼這個時候出手、給了什麼利益？","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:39:04.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:39:08.100000+08:00","text":"這個都有他全盤的……我們攻防，所以這個時候我們當然……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:39:08.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:39:18.250000+08:00","text":"所以我剛剛講了很多，面對這次泰國的事件，我們要不要有一些比較明顯的作為來宣示我們的主權？","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:39:18.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:39:38+08:00","text":"有，我們有表達我們的立場，除公開之外，我們當然也會去交涉，我們也希望……其實泰國政府對於臺灣，包括免簽，包括我們有關於投資、保障相關的這些，其實在這幾年都是有進展的。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:39:38.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:40:12.300000+08:00","text":"在這個行為出現之前，就我們的了解，其實泰方主觀上並不是要這樣，可是因為中共幾乎是緊迫盯人，凡事任何的場合……這個也是中共為了達到他的政治目標，所以在其他地方給予一些威脅、利誘，我們必須要溝通，也必須要共同來做一些修護，也要未來能夠一起應處。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:40:13.071429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:40:18.346154+08:00","text":"是，請部長要有一些態度，當然大家都希望我們能夠硬起來。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:40:18.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:40:50.277778+08:00","text":"另外一個跟今天主題比較相關的，就是前幾天AIT有發聲明，針對南海的仁愛暗沙有中國海警打傷菲國士兵的狀況，不過他們的圖非常有趣，好像是拿棍子在打，看起來那一塊是在我們太平島的東南方，如果照我們以前那個十一段線，其實可能跟我們的主權也有某種程度的相關，而AIT後來是拿了一個2016年的國際仲裁的概念來看，不曉得部長怎麼看這件事情？","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:40:50.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:40:58.100000+08:00","text":"反正以這種暴力或武力的方式在處理國際間的爭議，我們都是反對的，這是第一點。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:40:58.681818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:41:20.166667+08:00","text":"因為對南海的這些，包括島礁的爭議，我們也有國家的立場，我們有很清楚的四點原則及五項作為，在這個基礎上，我們希望擱置爭議、共同開發，臺灣不是局外人，我們要求參加。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:41:20.785714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:41:54.250000+08:00","text":"至於其他國家之間，有些是雙邊的，不涉及我們第三方臺灣；有些是多邊的，我們要怎麼樣去突破，至少立場上要不斷的宣示，事實上很重要的是我們的行動，比如說，不管是太平島或東沙島，這些很清楚就是臺灣管轄的地方，其實我們也不斷的在從事建設，也在作為一個國際間大家可以合作的場域，至於涉及到我們宣示的某些可能涉及到的島礁或者是……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:41:54.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:41:59.100000+08:00","text":"因為這件事情，看起來好像我們並沒有做什麼樣的宣示等等，部長覺得呢？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:41:59.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:02.250000+08:00","text":"針對我剛剛說的AIT這件事情。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:42:03.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:10.366667+08:00","text":"你以AIT的宣示或者是……因為這是特定事件，我們當然也有表態，也有在我們的官網上表達意見。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:42:12.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:13.833333+08:00","text":"好，了解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:42:14.833333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:44.277778+08:00","text":"今年是南海爭議的十週年，每次，尤其是我們的十一段線，其實都有很多的爭議，不曉得部長對於這個爭議，包含剛剛那個事件，其實每次看起來那些好像都是我們管轄的部分，像過去不管是中國或其他國家在裡面發生一些衝突，臺灣是不是可以更進一步的表達我們的立場？","quality":0.768},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:42:44.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:42:48.214286+08:00","text":"我覺得那個可能還是我們主權可以宣示的地方。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:42:48.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:43:06.277778+08:00","text":"我們有宣示，但這很微妙，而且要很謹慎，是因為中華人民共和國有時候會透過我們的宣示來行使他認為的管轄權，包括飛機、無人機或者船艦，所以其實我們面對到兩方面，一方面是我們面對……","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:43:06.277778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:43:07.277778+08:00","text":"非常尷尬啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:43:06.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:43:08.366667+08:00","text":"所以我就問部長，我們到底要採取什麼樣的態度？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:43:08.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:43:24.277778+08:00","text":"對，我們要表達立場，但又不能被中共所利用，然後我們跟一些國家又有共同的利害，但是也有衝突，可是我們不贊成用武力的方式來解決衝突，應該透過和平的手段。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:43:24.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:43:28.100000+08:00","text":"另外，我們臺灣應該要參與。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:43:28.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:43:45.700000+08:00","text":"再來，我們希望透過擱置爭議、共同開發，來做一些比較建設性的項目，臺灣願意以這個態度在南海地區扮演一個比較積極、正向的利害關係人。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:43:46.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:43:48.400000+08:00","text":"是，我想以部長的能力，應該可以好好的處理這些事情。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:43:49.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:44:15.833333+08:00","text":"最後，因為我長期都在勞動界，剛剛我看到其他委員也有講到強迫勞動的部分，據報導，現在美國301好像就是要用強迫勞動，剛剛部長也回答了很多像跟經濟部那邊的狀況，我們是不是可以透過一些外交手段來跟美國做一些宣示，說我們其實已經不是有這麼多問題的國家？","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:44:16.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:44:29.900000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，其實美方知道臺灣做得很好，這個是談判的策略，因為就是ART……因為他們憲法的解釋，所以他現在時間很趕，可以用的工具又有限，你看工具都拿出來了。","quality":0.754},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:44:31.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:44:58.166667+08:00","text":"可是實質上就我們理解，臺灣並沒有像有些國家那樣子強迫勞動，當然有時候發生個案，我們就好好把個案處理好，可是就通案上來講，臺灣是表現非常好的，但有一些法令或是人權相關的國際條約等等，我們就是要遵守，我們自我要求。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:45:00.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:45:12.333333+08:00","text":"當然有些像漁工，包括我們的船，這有一些涉及到管理或經營的模式，當然要不斷的精進，可是怎麼樣能夠確保我們的漁業不受傷害，其實這個都很細緻。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:45:12.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:45:28.100000+08:00","text":"但我要講的就是請大家放心，臺灣不管是在所謂強迫勞動或者是洗產地的這些行為上，現在臺灣的標準、我們自我要求都相當的高啦！","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:45:28.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:45:52.100000+08:00","text":"其實就關稅的談判，大家要有信心，雖然因為ART現在涉及到違憲解釋，可是他還有其他的法源拿來用，在時間內我們都可以得到相對比較好的，不管是關稅或是有關於貿易或投資或供應鏈上面，對我們權益的保障是比較好的。是。","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:45:52.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:46:08.214286+08:00","text":"因為我是勞動學者，所以不瞞部長說，我最近也積極的跟勞動部、經濟部或漁業署都在做一些協調，希望真正在這個方面有進展，不要再動不動就被人家拿來威脅啦！","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-22T10:46:08.785714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T10:46:14.214286+08:00","text":"也請部長可以多給我們協助，我們一起來努力，謝謝。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2026-07-22T10:46:14.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:46:17.571429+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員的指導。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T10:46:17.871429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:46:22.728571+08:00","text":"待會徐巧芯委員質詢結束以後，休息5分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T10:46:23.028571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T10:46:26.457143+08:00","text":"現在請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":293,"blocks":[["王委員安祥：（10時36分）謝謝主席。有請林佳龍部長。"],["主席：請林部長。"],["王委員安祥：部長早。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["王委員安祥：立法院對於外交部在拓展外交的經費上一直都是大力支持的，雖然我2月才來，不過就已經發生了好幾件事情，第一件事是跟立陶宛有關，他要叫我們代表處更名，後來又有南非要我們的辦事處撤離首都，剛剛我看到其他委員也有在講巴紐的事情，不過最新的應該跟泰國總理有關，好像是泰國總理應邀到中國去出席一個人工智能大會，而且會晤了他們的相關人士，會後他發表了一個中共跟泰國的聯合聲明，其中就講到幾件事情，包含臺灣是中國領土不可分割的一部分等等，外交部也發了聲明，我留一點時間讓部長來表達一下我們的立場。"],["林部長佳龍：是，我已經有表達對於泰國政府扈從中國扭曲、矮化臺灣的地位，我們表達抗議，也對於泰國政府這樣的做法，雖然是被脅迫的，但是我們仍表達失望跟遺憾，因為我也提醒，臺泰之間有很好的經貿、人民的往來，也有很多的投資，去講那個……因為這個裡面會涉及到，如果把扈從中國的一中原則這些說法，甚至讓他可以以此來對於海外，包括臺灣的投資都會有影響，這是不利於雙方的。"],["王委員安祥：因為好像我們跟泰國最近的關係都不錯，他們給我們免簽，讓我們去泰國做一些投資，這個機會……"],["林部長佳龍：我可以跟委員說明，其實我們在外交上的空間是很大的，而且大家都看到，中共只是在強迫那些比較扈從的國家，其實是他沒有自信，所以每個聲明都要去加這一段，你看美國、日本、G7或印太第一島鏈，其實相對來講，對於中共的威脅，大家都是感同身受的，所以在理念上也支持臺灣。因此，中共就去迫使全球南方的國家，幾乎已經達到凡事都要先唸一下一中原則的地步，這個是他沒有自信，也是我們外交上的突破。另外，他也是在做某種反制，比如說，我們有些突破之後，他一定會想要在一些外交場合上討回去，外交的攻防其實是牽一髮而動全身的，比如說PNG（巴布亞紐幾內亞），這個事情當然已經醞釀很久了，但為什麼這個時候出手、給了什麼利益？這個都有他全盤的……我們攻防，所以這個時候我們當然……"],["王委員安祥：所以我剛剛講了很多，面對這次泰國的事件，我們要不要有一些比較明顯的作為來宣示我們的主權？"],["林部長佳龍：有，我們有表達我們的立場，除公開之外，我們當然也會去交涉，我們也希望……其實泰國政府對於臺灣，包括免簽，包括我們有關於投資、保障相關的這些，其實在這幾年都是有進展的。在這個行為出現之前，就我們的了解，其實泰方主觀上並不是要這樣，可是因為中共幾乎是緊迫盯人，凡事任何的場合……這個也是中共為了達到他的政治目標，所以在其他地方給予一些威脅、利誘，我們必須要溝通，也必須要共同來做一些修護，也要未來能夠一起應處。"],["王委員安祥：是，請部長要有一些態度，當然大家都希望我們能夠硬起來。另外一個跟今天主題比較相關的，就是前幾天AIT有發聲明，針對南海的仁愛暗沙有中國海警打傷菲國士兵的狀況，不過他們的圖非常有趣，好像是拿棍子在打，看起來那一塊是在我們太平島的東南方，如果照我們以前那個十一段線，其實可能跟我們的主權也有某種程度的相關，而AIT後來是拿了一個2016年的國際仲裁的概念來看，不曉得部長怎麼看這件事情？"],["林部長佳龍：反正以這種暴力或武力的方式在處理國際間的爭議，我們都是反對的，這是第一點。因為對南海的這些，包括島礁的爭議，我們也有國家的立場，我們有很清楚的四點原則及五項作為，在這個基礎上，我們希望擱置爭議、共同開發，臺灣不是局外人，我們要求參加。至於其他國家之間，有些是雙邊的，不涉及我們第三方臺灣；有些是多邊的，我們要怎麼樣去突破，至少立場上要不斷的宣示，事實上很重要的是我們的行動，比如說，不管是太平島或東沙島，這些很清楚就是臺灣管轄的地方，其實我們也不斷的在從事建設，也在作為一個國際間大家可以合作的場域，至於涉及到我們宣示的某些可能涉及到的島礁或者是……"],["王委員安祥：因為這件事情，看起來好像我們並沒有做什麼樣的宣示等等，部長覺得呢？針對我剛剛說的AIT這件事情。"],["林部長佳龍：你以AIT的宣示或者是……因為這是特定事件，我們當然也有表態，也有在我們的官網上表達意見。"],["王委員安祥：好，了解。今年是南海爭議的十週年，每次，尤其是我們的十一段線，其實都有很多的爭議，不曉得部長對於這個爭議，包含剛剛那個事件，其實每次看起來那些好像都是我們管轄的部分，像過去不管是中國或其他國家在裡面發生一些衝突，臺灣是不是可以更進一步的表達我們的立場？我覺得那個可能還是我們主權可以宣示的地方。"],["林部長佳龍：我們有宣示，但這很微妙，而且要很謹慎，是因為中華人民共和國有時候會透過我們的宣示來行使他認為的管轄權，包括飛機、無人機或者船艦，所以其實我們面對到兩方面，一方面是我們面對……"],["王委員安祥：非常尷尬啦！所以我就問部長，我們到底要採取什麼樣的態度？"],["林部長佳龍：對，我們要表達立場，但又不能被中共所利用，然後我們跟一些國家又有共同的利害，但是也有衝突，可是我們不贊成用武力的方式來解決衝突，應該透過和平的手段。另外，我們臺灣應該要參與。再來，我們希望透過擱置爭議、共同開發，來做一些比較建設性的項目，臺灣願意以這個態度在南海地區扮演一個比較積極、正向的利害關係人。"],["王委員安祥：是，我想以部長的能力，應該可以好好的處理這些事情。最後，因為我長期都在勞動界，剛剛我看到其他委員也有講到強迫勞動的部分，據報導，現在美國301好像就是要用強迫勞動，剛剛部長也回答了很多像跟經濟部那邊的狀況，我們是不是可以透過一些外交手段來跟美國做一些宣示，說我們其實已經不是有這麼多問題的國家？"],["林部長佳龍：我跟委員報告，其實美方知道臺灣做得很好，這個是談判的策略，因為就是ART……因為他們憲法的解釋，所以他現在時間很趕，可以用的工具又有限，你看工具都拿出來了。可是實質上就我們理解，臺灣並沒有像有些國家那樣子強迫勞動，當然有時候發生個案，我們就好好把個案處理好，可是就通案上來講，臺灣是表現非常好的，但有一些法令或是人權相關的國際條約等等，我們就是要遵守，我們自我要求。當然有些像漁工，包括我們的船，這有一些涉及到管理或經營的模式，當然要不斷的精進，可是怎麼樣能夠確保我們的漁業不受傷害，其實這個都很細緻。但我要講的就是請大家放心，臺灣不管是在所謂強迫勞動或者是洗產地的這些行為上，現在臺灣的標準、我們自我要求都相當的高啦！其實就關稅的談判，大家要有信心，雖然因為ART現在涉及到違憲解釋，可是他還有其他的法源拿來用，在時間內我們都可以得到相對比較好的，不管是關稅或是有關於貿易或投資或供應鏈上面，對我們權益的保障是比較好的。"],["王委員安祥：是。因為我是勞動學者，所以不瞞部長說，我最近也積極的跟勞動部、經濟部或漁業署都在做一些協調，希望真正在這個方面有進展，不要再動不動就被人家拿來威脅啦！也請部長可以多給我們協助，我們一起來努力，謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：好，謝謝委員的指導。"],["主席：謝謝。待會徐巧芯委員質詢結束以後，休息5分鐘。","現在請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-35-28","speakers":["馬文君","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳永康","王義川","林楚茵","黃建賓","王安祥","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","許忠信","鄭正鈐","林倩綺","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","黃仁","沈伯洋"],"page_start":151,"meetingDate":["2026-07-22"],"gazette_id":"1156601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「我國近年針對南海主權與法律地位之國際宣傳實績成效暨如何應對\n周邊國家擴大主權國際宣傳之具體反制策略」，併請海洋委員會、大陸委員會列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1156601_00015"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}