{"error":false,"id":["170654"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170654,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170654","日期":"2026-07-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-20-23","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第23次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":23,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第23次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-22T10:40:38+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-22T10:52:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:58","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7469000803f9b6aaf0176390621b886ea12cc4407a29209f44a10b38cb6ea4e795517a371d75927e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳秉叡","委員發言時間":"10:40:38 - 10:52:36","會議時間":"2026-07-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「遺產及贈與稅法」12案：（僅詢答）\n(一)\t本院委員吳秉叡等19人、委員郭昱晴等16人、委員林楚茵等16人、委員王美惠等17人、委員李坤城等19人、委員郭國文等21人分別擬具「遺產及贈與稅法部分條文修正草案」等6案。\n(二)\t本院委員賴惠員等16人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第六條、第十五條及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員王鴻薇等18人、委員林思銘等18人分別擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條條文修正草案」等2案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等17人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員李彥秀等16人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條、第十七條之一及第二十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員賴士葆等26人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第三十條及第四十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查「土地稅法」9案：（僅詢答）\n(一)本院委員李坤城等18人、委員馬文君等20人分別擬具「土地稅法增訂第十七條之一條文草案」等2案。【後1案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】\n(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等18人、委員傅崐萁等19人、委員李彥秀等18人、委員林倩綺等19人、委員賴士葆等41人、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「土地稅法第十七條之一及第十九條條文修正草案」等7案。【後5案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】\n三、審查「房屋稅條例」9案：（僅詢答）\n(一)本院委員李坤城等19人、委員馬文君等21人分別擬具「房屋稅條例增訂第五條之一條文草案」等2案。【後1案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】\n(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等19人、委員傅崐萁等19人、委員李彥秀等18人、委員林倩綺等19人、委員賴士葆等41人、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「房屋稅條例第五條之一及第六條條文修正草案」等7案。【後5案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】\n【7月22日及23日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.5115937500000003,"end":4.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.6715937499999995,"end":5.6334687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.227843750000002,"end":15.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.14659375,"end":21.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.25534375,"end":24.044093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.17909375,"end":24.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.79909375,"end":31.148468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.05971875,"end":35.704718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.822843750000004,"end":39.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.463468750000004,"end":41.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.134093750000005,"end":43.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.09159375,"end":49.845968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.487218750000004,"end":50.976593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.976593750000006,"end":51.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.09034375,"end":78.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.10534375,"end":65.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.06284375,"end":66.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.11346875000001,"end":66.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.11596875000001,"end":90.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.35909375,"end":87.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.21534375,"end":97.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.46721875,"end":98.61471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.25596875000001,"end":110.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.27534375,"end":126.42471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.79596875000001,"end":134.77784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.75659375,"end":136.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.46096875,"end":139.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.90784375,"end":146.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.99534375000002,"end":168.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.49409375000002,"end":174.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.70409375,"end":179.91846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.36596875,"end":215.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.28909375,"end":213.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.66409375,"end":235.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.09534375,"end":239.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.28034375000001,"end":241.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.37721875000003,"end":242.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.13221875000002,"end":243.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.09409375,"end":244.81971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.08971875,"end":245.98409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.62534375,"end":256.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.54346875,"end":271.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.90409375,"end":274.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.22846875,"end":288.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.73846875000004,"end":279.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.57221875,"end":296.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.45284375,"end":298.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.64659375,"end":326.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.93909375000004,"end":318.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.90034375000005,"end":324.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.80284375,"end":336.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.21909375,"end":336.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.97409375,"end":360.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.02284375000005,"end":349.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.63284375,"end":364.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.06284375,"end":364.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.61534375,"end":374.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.75034375,"end":365.02034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.97221875,"end":377.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.18721875,"end":387.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.85659375,"end":387.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.83534375000005,"end":399.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.44096875,"end":404.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.79471875,"end":413.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.17721875,"end":419.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.56034375,"end":423.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.67784375,"end":427.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.39034375,"end":429.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.98471875,"end":435.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.55346875000004,"end":440.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.95784375000005,"end":443.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.86034375,"end":445.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.08346875,"end":447.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.28159375,"end":450.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.72409375,"end":452.80409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.09096875,"end":455.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.48284375000003,"end":458.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.06034375,"end":461.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.91659375,"end":463.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.70096875,"end":465.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.00034375,"end":467.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.56534375,"end":468.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.51034375,"end":473.86409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.23096875000005,"end":475.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.41221875,"end":478.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.89284375000005,"end":479.38221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.83784375000005,"end":481.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.47034375000004,"end":485.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.33471875000004,"end":488.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.13596875,"end":492.42659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.91596875000005,"end":494.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.29971875,"end":495.70034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.74659375000005,"end":498.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.31159375000004,"end":500.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.62346875000003,"end":502.09596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.60221875,"end":506.34846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.17534375,"end":507.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.03596875000005,"end":509.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.53346875000005,"end":512.3728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.3178437500001,"end":515.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.4440937500001,"end":515.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.06846875,"end":517.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.7390937499999,"end":518.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.71346875,"end":521.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.6328437500001,"end":523.0209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.4428437500001,"end":525.4678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.1428437500001,"end":527.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.4084687500001,"end":528.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.75846875,"end":530.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.6272187500001,"end":532.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.99409375,"end":536.4365937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.16221875,"end":538.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.3897187499999,"end":540.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.3303437500001,"end":543.0009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.4228437500001,"end":544.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.2622187500001,"end":551.0672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.7253437500001,"end":555.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.3490937500001,"end":557.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.00284375,"end":572.3803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.15659375,"end":574.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.6203437500001,"end":577.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.4890937499999,"end":581.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.43784375,"end":584.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.7665937500001,"end":586.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.0615937499999,"end":591.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.19159375,"end":595.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.71846875,"end":598.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.60409375,"end":623.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.20596875,"end":608.5772187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.1415937500001,"end":615.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.2122187500001,"end":630.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.31221875,"end":661.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.5734687500001,"end":665.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.04534375,"end":666.3572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.14221875,"end":666.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.3572187500001,"end":666.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.96471875,"end":672.1453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.8503437500001,"end":673.0903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.56284375,"end":675.2334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.3134687500001,"end":677.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.78159375,"end":679.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.22846875,"end":695.7197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.47909375,"end":704.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.37659375,"end":708.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.41034375,"end":705.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":706.75596875,"end":707.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.0847187500001,"end":713.0334687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":5,"text":"主席麻煩請財政部莊部長"},{"start":5,"end":6,"text":"請莊部長"},{"start":9,"end":10,"text":"委員好"},{"start":10,"end":13,"text":"莊部長剛剛聽你的報告"},{"start":13,"end":16,"text":"土地稅跟這個房屋稅"},{"start":16,"end":20,"text":"你是要授權地方政府對於婚育債或是有"},{"start":20,"end":24,"text":"出生子女的這個房屋稅跟土地稅"},{"start":24,"end":27,"text":"可以做得為減免嗎"},{"start":27,"end":29,"text":"那還要經過地方自治條例"},{"start":29,"end":31,"text":"由地方的議會來訂定嗎"},{"start":32,"end":35,"text":"那你這裡面的稅損你是估計50到70億"},{"start":36,"end":38,"text":"那請問這個是怎麼算出來"},{"start":38,"end":40,"text":"因為既然是得"},{"start":40,"end":43,"text":"那地方的這個"},{"start":44,"end":46,"text":"地方的議會要自治條例來訂定"},{"start":46,"end":48,"text":"他也不一定會訂定"},{"start":48,"end":52,"text":"或是他訂定的額度你有給他規定嗎"},{"start":52,"end":53,"text":"是沒有沒有錯"},{"start":53,"end":56,"text":"我們第一個就是說是以單一自助"},{"start":56,"end":58,"text":"也就是目前來說他是屬於"},{"start":58,"end":60,"text":"只有在全國自用住宅裡面"},{"start":60,"end":63,"text":"只有單一的一戶的這樣的一個家庭裡面"},{"start":63,"end":64,"text":"他"},{"start":64,"end":66,"text":"我們的問題是你的稅損是怎麼算出來的"},{"start":66,"end":69,"text":"我們稅損是用我們看單一自助裡面"},{"start":69,"end":72,"text":"在114年是有315萬戶"},{"start":72,"end":74,"text":"115年有318萬戶"},{"start":74,"end":76,"text":"我們以這樣的戶數之下去"},{"start":76,"end":77,"text":"做一個推估"},{"start":77,"end":81,"text":"對的問題是地方政府要給他減免多少"},{"start":81,"end":82,"text":"也是不確定"},{"start":82,"end":83,"text":"是的"},{"start":83,"end":84,"text":"所以議會要"},{"start":84,"end":87,"text":"要不要訂這個自治條例給予減免也不確定"},{"start":87,"end":89,"text":"所以你怎麼算"},{"start":89,"end":92,"text":"我們第一個我們當然是用一個最大的一個來估"},{"start":92,"end":95,"text":"就是假設這樣為全免的情況下"},{"start":95,"end":97,"text":"來做估計的一個數字"},{"start":97,"end":99,"text":"好那我要跟你講"},{"start":99,"end":101,"text":"剛剛有很多委員提出"},{"start":101,"end":104,"text":"說這是叫中央請客地方買單"},{"start":104,"end":105,"text":"我要跟你講"},{"start":105,"end":107,"text":"你的回答如果只有針對土地稅"},{"start":107,"end":110,"text":"跟這個房屋稅的減免這一部分"},{"start":110,"end":113,"text":"聽起來好像你在對這一些婚姻的"},{"start":113,"end":118,"text":"對這一些年輕人不怎麼友善"},{"start":118,"end":120,"text":"因為你還不願意補"},{"start":120,"end":123,"text":"但是你要知道這個少子女化"},{"start":123,"end":125,"text":"少子女對策"},{"start":125,"end":127,"text":"它是套餐"},{"start":127,"end":128,"text":"它有的要給錢"},{"start":128,"end":129,"text":"有的要給補助"},{"start":129,"end":131,"text":"有的公立幼兒園什麼"},{"start":131,"end":135,"text":"它已經給了一大堆的福利政策跟補貼了"},{"start":135,"end":139,"text":"這個只是井上天花的一小部分"},{"start":139,"end":141,"text":"地方政府要不要減免"},{"start":141,"end":144,"text":"地方的議會要不要通過自治條例"},{"start":144,"end":146,"text":"都還要在未定之天"},{"start":146,"end":147,"text":"所以好像會"},{"start":147,"end":151,"text":"跟你講說50億70億你也不肯負擔"},{"start":151,"end":153,"text":"好像中央政府很對不起這些人"},{"start":153,"end":156,"text":"我覺得你的回答針對問題是沒有錯"},{"start":156,"end":159,"text":"但是我們要再拉高一個更高的層次來看"},{"start":159,"end":161,"text":"中央政府對於這些年輕人"},{"start":161,"end":163,"text":"婚姻有非常多的照顧"},{"start":163,"end":167,"text":"包括0到18歲一個月1萬塊不是嗎"},{"start":167,"end":169,"text":"5000塊不是嗎"},{"start":169,"end":171,"text":"然後你幾歲以後"},{"start":171,"end":174,"text":"還有一半要存那個專戶"},{"start":174,"end":176,"text":"存專戶是存5000嘛"},{"start":176,"end":177,"text":"05000嘛不是嗎"},{"start":177,"end":179,"text":"還是存2500"},{"start":179,"end":180,"text":"第一個就是說"},{"start":180,"end":183,"text":"其實對於未成年子女政府"},{"start":183,"end":186,"text":"真的是如同委員所說的就是整套的"},{"start":186,"end":188,"text":"這只是其中的一小項而已"},{"start":188,"end":190,"text":"包含有育兒津貼"},{"start":190,"end":192,"text":"還有公托幼托的時候"},{"start":192,"end":194,"text":"政府給予相關的補助"},{"start":194,"end":197,"text":"剛才還有提到這次新的成長津貼"},{"start":197,"end":199,"text":"成長津貼是0到6歲的時候"},{"start":199,"end":203,"text":"每一個孩子每個月5000塊是給家長"},{"start":203,"end":207,"text":"6歲以後到18歲就一半2500是給個人"},{"start":207,"end":211,"text":"然後2500是存到專戶去到他18歲滿的時候"},{"start":211,"end":212,"text":"我知道我的意思是說"},{"start":212,"end":214,"text":"這是政府整體的一個支出"},{"start":214,"end":215,"text":"我們在看這個問題的時候"},{"start":215,"end":216,"text":"要看政府整體"},{"start":216,"end":219,"text":"那你在財政部考量你這個政策的時候"},{"start":219,"end":222,"text":"真的別的委員講這個也有點道理"},{"start":222,"end":223,"text":"你中央政府給我規定"},{"start":223,"end":226,"text":"讓我要對這些年輕人減稅"},{"start":226,"end":228,"text":"但是你給我強調一個得嘛"},{"start":228,"end":229,"text":"所以你可以減可以不減"},{"start":229,"end":230,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":230,"end":233,"text":"但是問題是我如果居住在地方縣市"},{"start":233,"end":234,"text":"我舉個例子台北市有減"},{"start":234,"end":235,"text":"我新北市沒減"},{"start":235,"end":237,"text":"我心目中就多利益了"},{"start":237,"end":241,"text":"為什麼我平平安安的賭民"},{"start":241,"end":242,"text":"這個待遇差這麼多"},{"start":242,"end":246,"text":"但是如果用陰的話"},{"start":246,"end":247,"text":"你是擔心說"},{"start":247,"end":248,"text":"擔心說就被落實說"},{"start":248,"end":250,"text":"讓你中央請客地方買單"},{"start":250,"end":254,"text":"所以你應該要少多少就應該要補多少"},{"start":254,"end":257,"text":"過去地方都是用這樣的邏輯"},{"start":257,"end":258,"text":"不過我跟你講"},{"start":258,"end":260,"text":"這裡你還要再考量一個小問題"},{"start":260,"end":261,"text":"我不知道你有沒有考量到"},{"start":261,"end":264,"text":"如果你這個減免你沒有上限的話"},{"start":264,"end":266,"text":"假設減多少你補多少的話"},{"start":266,"end":268,"text":"那我地方為了要選票"},{"start":268,"end":269,"text":"我全部都給你免掉"},{"start":269,"end":271,"text":"我免得越多越好"},{"start":271,"end":275,"text":"所以會變成每一個地方的補助會不一樣"},{"start":275,"end":277,"text":"所以我是覺得你這個政策的思考"},{"start":277,"end":278,"text":"可能要再周延一點"},{"start":278,"end":281,"text":"是不是如果地方政府"},{"start":281,"end":283,"text":"有時候訂這個單行條例的話"},{"start":283,"end":286,"text":"它能夠免得範圍最多到哪裡"},{"start":286,"end":287,"text":"是不是也要訂一個門"},{"start":287,"end":289,"text":"也要訂一個屋頂"},{"start":289,"end":291,"text":"這樣子你再來考量說"},{"start":291,"end":293,"text":"要不要適當的中央跟地方"},{"start":293,"end":295,"text":"一起來負擔這個政策"},{"start":295,"end":297,"text":"我們來補助一部分"},{"start":297,"end":299,"text":"是不是合理"},{"start":299,"end":300,"text":"委員報告"},{"start":300,"end":302,"text":"其實第一個在範圍上"},{"start":302,"end":304,"text":"已經是以單一自助"},{"start":304,"end":306,"text":"也就是說本人配偶及未成年居住"},{"start":306,"end":308,"text":"全國只有一間房子"},{"start":308,"end":310,"text":"這樣的一個範圍裡面"},{"start":310,"end":312,"text":"對於婚姻家庭可以自用住宅"},{"start":312,"end":314,"text":"這一類的家庭其實目前"},{"start":314,"end":316,"text":"房屋稅只有一排"},{"start":316,"end":318,"text":"它比1.2基本的1.2還低"},{"start":318,"end":319,"text":"我知道了"},{"start":319,"end":321,"text":"然後自用住宅也是千分之二"},{"start":321,"end":323,"text":"已經是那個最低的"},{"start":323,"end":324,"text":"地價稅是最低的"},{"start":324,"end":325,"text":"我的意思是說如果你沒有那個"},{"start":325,"end":326,"text":"在這個範圍裡面"},{"start":326,"end":327,"text":"如果是新北市"},{"start":327,"end":329,"text":"如果你也說是中央補多少的話"},{"start":329,"end":330,"text":"我新北的地方政府"},{"start":330,"end":332,"text":"我那些議員大家全部都給你免掉"},{"start":332,"end":333,"text":"都免收"},{"start":333,"end":334,"text":"全部都中央補"},{"start":334,"end":336,"text":"所以我的意思是說"},{"start":336,"end":338,"text":"你那個政策要考慮"},{"start":338,"end":340,"text":"我沒有在這裡跟你講說"},{"start":340,"end":341,"text":"你應該要怎麼確定"},{"start":341,"end":344,"text":"因為畢竟這是你財政部的職權"},{"start":344,"end":345,"text":"我是在這邊跟你"},{"start":345,"end":347,"text":"互相切磋這個政策"},{"start":347,"end":348,"text":"所以要考量很多"},{"start":348,"end":351,"text":"中央政府其實給予很大的照顧"},{"start":351,"end":353,"text":"那在這一方面沒有辦法"},{"start":353,"end":355,"text":"你已經照顧了99分"},{"start":355,"end":356,"text":"最後這一分"},{"start":356,"end":357,"text":"有人跟你爭論"},{"start":357,"end":359,"text":"好像變成你是對不起人一樣"},{"start":359,"end":362,"text":"不要產生這樣的錯誤的概念"},{"start":362,"end":363,"text":"跟這個印象"},{"start":363,"end":364,"text":"謝謝委員指教"},{"start":364,"end":366,"text":"我覺得千萬不要產生這樣的印象"},{"start":366,"end":367,"text":"第二個"},{"start":367,"end":368,"text":"也不"},{"start":368,"end":370,"text":"中央政府的立場也不適宜"},{"start":370,"end":371,"text":"讓地方政府"},{"start":371,"end":373,"text":"每個地方的自治條例"},{"start":373,"end":374,"text":"定的不一樣"},{"start":375,"end":376,"text":"因為"},{"start":376,"end":379,"text":"作為居住在台灣沒有多大面積"},{"start":379,"end":381,"text":"所有的國人都是希望"},{"start":381,"end":383,"text":"別的政府享有的權益"},{"start":383,"end":384,"text":"我也要有"},{"start":384,"end":386,"text":"別的地方有的權益"},{"start":386,"end":387,"text":"我也要有"},{"start":387,"end":388,"text":"我舉個例子"},{"start":388,"end":389,"text":"我們以前新北市的"},{"start":389,"end":390,"text":"新北市的"},{"start":390,"end":391,"text":"林長"},{"start":391,"end":392,"text":"車馬補助費一個月1500"},{"start":392,"end":393,"text":"但台北市2500"},{"start":393,"end":394,"text":"桃園市2500"},{"start":394,"end":396,"text":"被批評了很多年之後"},{"start":396,"end":397,"text":"現在侯市長從善如流"},{"start":397,"end":400,"text":"宣布7月1號開始也調回2500"},{"start":400,"end":401,"text":"那前面那幾年"},{"start":401,"end":403,"text":"我們新北市的林長說"},{"start":403,"end":405,"text":"我們就比較小"},{"start":405,"end":406,"text":"也不能這樣說"},{"start":406,"end":407,"text":"所以其實如果"},{"start":407,"end":408,"text":"地方的"},{"start":408,"end":410,"text":"大家的標準如果不一樣的話"},{"start":410,"end":412,"text":"其實大家感受也不好"},{"start":412,"end":414,"text":"這個也是得考慮看看"},{"start":414,"end":416,"text":"最後就是談到今天"},{"start":416,"end":418,"text":"大法官會議的解釋"},{"start":418,"end":420,"text":"維繫這一部分"},{"start":420,"end":422,"text":"就我念法律的角度來看"},{"start":422,"end":424,"text":"它真正的根源在哪裡"},{"start":424,"end":426,"text":"其實稅法有一個最基本"},{"start":426,"end":428,"text":"最高的原則"},{"start":428,"end":430,"text":"就是拿到錢的人繳稅"},{"start":430,"end":431,"text":"對不對"},{"start":431,"end":433,"text":"我做生意我營業稅"},{"start":433,"end":434,"text":"也是因為我做了這個生意"},{"start":434,"end":435,"text":"我賺錢"},{"start":435,"end":437,"text":"所以我繳稅"},{"start":437,"end":439,"text":"我所得稅更是"},{"start":439,"end":441,"text":"我有多少所得稅我才繳稅"},{"start":441,"end":444,"text":"但是因為你在遺產稅的時候"},{"start":444,"end":447,"text":"你是採總額你治"},{"start":447,"end":450,"text":"使得沒有收到錢的人"},{"start":450,"end":452,"text":"有可能要繳稅"},{"start":452,"end":454,"text":"這個就是這一次被解釋為"},{"start":454,"end":456,"text":"維繫的最根本原因"},{"start":456,"end":460,"text":"但是我上次有在這邊跟你提過"},{"start":460,"end":462,"text":"日本的遺產稅"},{"start":462,"end":466,"text":"是拿到遺產的人繳稅"},{"start":466,"end":469,"text":"它不是你治整體"},{"start":469,"end":471,"text":"一個被繼承的人"},{"start":471,"end":472,"text":"他有多少遺產"},{"start":472,"end":473,"text":"可以被幾個人繼承"},{"start":473,"end":475,"text":"怎麼分配"},{"start":475,"end":477,"text":"這個清清楚楚"},{"start":477,"end":479,"text":"在日本沒有問題"},{"start":479,"end":482,"text":"因為如果你要讓我遺產跟自由的話"},{"start":482,"end":484,"text":"這個長子我都跟他一起住喔"},{"start":484,"end":486,"text":"很孝順"},{"start":486,"end":489,"text":"我遺族裡面我要給他50%"},{"start":489,"end":491,"text":"小兒子跟小女兒"},{"start":491,"end":492,"text":"我也很照顧他們"},{"start":492,"end":494,"text":"但是他們經濟已經不錯了"},{"start":494,"end":496,"text":"我給他25%"},{"start":496,"end":499,"text":"各25%三個人繼承"},{"start":499,"end":501,"text":"我舉這樣案例"},{"start":501,"end":503,"text":"但是在日本就很清楚"},{"start":503,"end":505,"text":"那我就拿到那三個小朋友"},{"start":505,"end":507,"text":"拿到的遺產"},{"start":507,"end":509,"text":"該繳多少遺產稅他們去繳"},{"start":509,"end":510,"text":"台灣不是耶"},{"start":510,"end":512,"text":"台灣你給他女子"},{"start":512,"end":515,"text":"假設有一個小兒子說"},{"start":515,"end":517,"text":"為什麼我是25%"},{"start":517,"end":519,"text":"我不要繳"},{"start":519,"end":521,"text":"你那個案子就拖著"},{"start":521,"end":525,"text":"然後怎麼裁斬怎麼分配怎麼分割"},{"start":525,"end":527,"text":"有時候都搞不清楚"},{"start":527,"end":528,"text":"我就不要分割啊"},{"start":528,"end":530,"text":"那去告啊到法院去啊"},{"start":530,"end":534,"text":"所以誰收到多少錢"},{"start":534,"end":536,"text":"拿到多少錢"},{"start":536,"end":538,"text":"由他來繳稅"},{"start":538,"end":540,"text":"這樣子的制度"},{"start":540,"end":542,"text":"日本已經實施非常多年"},{"start":542,"end":544,"text":"也沒什麼弊端"},{"start":544,"end":546,"text":"我們台灣你們說說"},{"start":546,"end":547,"text":"因為過去的歷史"},{"start":547,"end":550,"text":"我們就是你是被繼承人的遺產總額"},{"start":550,"end":552,"text":"所以我們現在稅制這樣"},{"start":552,"end":555,"text":"衍生非常多繼承上的問題"},{"start":555,"end":557,"text":"也衍生出這樣的案例"},{"start":557,"end":559,"text":"你今天雖然針對大法公會"},{"start":559,"end":561,"text":"本席也有提出修正案"},{"start":561,"end":563,"text":"但是這個都只是局部的修正"},{"start":563,"end":565,"text":"這個根本原因不解決"},{"start":565,"end":567,"text":"將來還會出現奇端的案例"},{"start":567,"end":569,"text":"再申請大法官會議解釋"},{"start":569,"end":571,"text":"大法官又再根據這個來考量"},{"start":571,"end":573,"text":"因為大法官的考量很清楚"},{"start":573,"end":577,"text":"沒有收到錢為什麼要繳遺產稅"},{"start":577,"end":579,"text":"這是根本他認為"},{"start":579,"end":581,"text":"違憲違反平等權的最大原因"},{"start":581,"end":583,"text":"所以你這個能不能考量"},{"start":583,"end":585,"text":"收到多少遺產"},{"start":585,"end":587,"text":"就由他收到的遺產"},{"start":587,"end":589,"text":"就由他收到的遺產"},{"start":589,"end":591,"text":"繼承了他繼承多少遺產"},{"start":591,"end":593,"text":"從他繼承的遺產裡面"},{"start":593,"end":595,"text":"照遺產稅該繳的稅率去繳"},{"start":595,"end":597,"text":"你覺得這樣子"},{"start":597,"end":599,"text":"是不是會比較清楚"},{"start":599,"end":600,"text":"謝謝委員長"},{"start":600,"end":602,"text":"委員上次也有提過這樣的提議"},{"start":602,"end":604,"text":"那我們知道第一個"},{"start":604,"end":606,"text":"遺產稅的計算"},{"start":606,"end":608,"text":"當然回歸到繼承的一個制度"},{"start":608,"end":610,"text":"在民法裡面"},{"start":610,"end":612,"text":"繼承一開始就是共同共有的狀態"},{"start":612,"end":614,"text":"除非他們去做遺產的協議分割"},{"start":614,"end":616,"text":"最不行的時候就判決分割"},{"start":616,"end":618,"text":"所以在共同共有的狀態的話"},{"start":618,"end":620,"text":"他其實沒有所謂的應有部分跟持分"},{"start":620,"end":622,"text":"所以在我們課稅的時候"},{"start":622,"end":624,"text":"沒有啦 共同共有也有應有部分也有持分"},{"start":624,"end":626,"text":"只是共同共有的狀態之下"},{"start":626,"end":628,"text":"依照法律擬置不用"},{"start":628,"end":630,"text":"共同共有沒有結束之前沒有辦法分割"},{"start":630,"end":632,"text":"所以如果說我們要用"},{"start":632,"end":634,"text":"個別繼承人取得多少遺產以後"},{"start":634,"end":636,"text":"去分別去計算遺產稅的話"},{"start":636,"end":638,"text":"那整個體制 我想這個部分"},{"start":638,"end":640,"text":"委員提過很多次"},{"start":640,"end":642,"text":"第一個就是我們可能會不會介入到"},{"start":642,"end":644,"text":"繼承人之間相互的協議分割的"},{"start":644,"end":646,"text":"一些狀態 那他們如果一直沒有能夠達成協議的話"},{"start":646,"end":648,"text":"我們的繼承遺產稅就沒有辦法開課"},{"start":648,"end":650,"text":"那所以這個部分"},{"start":650,"end":652,"text":"如果我想委員的建議"},{"start":652,"end":654,"text":"我們願意來做一個研議"},{"start":654,"end":656,"text":"或許我們可以做一個研究"},{"start":656,"end":658,"text":"也就是從整個遺產繼承的制度"},{"start":658,"end":660,"text":"一直到後面遺產稅的課程"},{"start":660,"end":662,"text":"我們可以做整體的一個討論"},{"start":662,"end":664,"text":"去取經"},{"start":664,"end":666,"text":"日本就是照這個制度已經執行非常多年"},{"start":666,"end":668,"text":"你就去日本取經就可以了"},{"start":668,"end":670,"text":"我們也可以去收集其他國際上的執行的一個案"},{"start":670,"end":672,"text":"照台灣這種制度的很少啦"},{"start":672,"end":674,"text":"這裡有一個最大的問題就是"},{"start":674,"end":676,"text":"明明"},{"start":676,"end":678,"text":"你們為什麼要把兩年內"},{"start":678,"end":680,"text":"被繼承人死亡之前"},{"start":680,"end":682,"text":"兩年內的那個財產"},{"start":682,"end":684,"text":"要把它再算回來"},{"start":684,"end":686,"text":"是變成遺產"},{"start":686,"end":688,"text":"就原因是因為你要找採總額制度嘛"},{"start":688,"end":690,"text":"不然照理來講"},{"start":690,"end":692,"text":"我生前已經處分了財產"},{"start":692,"end":694,"text":"照民法的原理 我生前已經處分了財產"},{"start":694,"end":696,"text":"就不是被繼承遺產了"},{"start":696,"end":698,"text":"這個 所以你們這個"},{"start":698,"end":700,"text":"你們要採這個制度 所以會衍生非常多的問題"},{"start":700,"end":702,"text":"要圓這個制度"},{"start":702,"end":704,"text":"就會衍生很多的問題"},{"start":704,"end":706,"text":"好好的研究一下"},{"start":706,"end":708,"text":"我們整體來做一些研究 謝謝委員的指教"},{"start":708,"end":710,"text":"謝謝委員指教"},{"start":710,"end":712,"text":"好 謝謝吳明睿 趙偉"},{"start":712,"end":714,"text":"接下來我們請顏寬恒委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}