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"text":"同行的人"},{"start":364,"end":366,"text":"這個是他阻管法規"},{"start":366,"end":368,"text":"因為我看都是6000到15000的罰款"},{"start":368,"end":371,"text":"那交通阻管法規我們就尊重"},{"start":371,"end":372,"text":"我覺得沒有多嚴格"},{"start":372,"end":373,"text":"不是我指獨駕當然"},{"start":373,"end":376,"text":"因為吸毒本身就是一個罪"},{"start":376,"end":379,"text":"然後你吸毒然後再開車"},{"start":379,"end":380,"text":"那當然罪會更重"},{"start":380,"end":381,"text":"他是另外一個罪"},{"start":381,"end":383,"text":"對阿所以我們是在這個情況之下"},{"start":383,"end":385,"text":"我們會把他弄得更重"},{"start":385,"end":386,"text":"跟喝酒一樣"},{"start":386,"end":387,"text":"喝酒本身不違法"},{"start":387,"end":389,"text":"你喝酒開車就違法"},{"start":389,"end":391,"text":"所以又不太一樣"},{"start":391,"end":393,"text":"OK好謝謝"},{"start":393,"end":395,"text":"謝謝李委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:23:36.823529+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:23:49.176471+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請法務部黃次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T11:23:50.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:23:50.750000+08:00","text":"請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:23:50.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T11:23:51.750000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:23:51.434783+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:23:51.869565+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:23:52.304348+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:24:06.333333+08:00","text":"今天是討論刑法第一百八十五條之三的修正案，這其實就是針對毒駕做加嚴、加重的處理。","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:24:06.866667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:24:15.866667+08:00","text":"我先請教一下次長，這次要修正的刑法第一百八十五條之三第七項有沒入車輛這個新的規定，是不是？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:24:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:24:17.333333+08:00","text":"對，沒收。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:24:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:24:19.818182+08:00","text":"好，有沒收車輛這個新的規定。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:24:20.272727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:24:24.846154+08:00","text":"現在就是說，抓到毒駕就把這輛車子沒收，是不是？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:24:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:24:40.785714+08:00","text":"不是，我們的條文只講屬於行為人所有，或第三人所有而沒有正當理由提供或取得的這種狀況，以免波及無辜，並不是所有的車輛一律義務沒收。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:24:41.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:24:43.800000+08:00","text":"我們的條文設計不是這樣。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:24:43.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T11:24:45+08:00","text":"可是道交條例呢？","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:24:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:24:53.400000+08:00","text":"那個部分我們尊重交通部，那是他們的主管法規，他們有不同的立法目的。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:24:54.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:24:58.785714+08:00","text":"它是規定，只要是毒駕，那個車子就一律沒入，對不對？","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:24:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:00+08:00","text":"查扣，對。對啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:00.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:01.777778+08:00","text":"就是扣車的意思嘛！對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:03.600000+08:00","text":"那你們跟他們不一樣了啊！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:04.857143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:05.714286+08:00","text":"對，不一樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:09.400000+08:00","text":"我們是沒收，它是查扣，或者是行政沒入。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:10.235294+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:13.058824+08:00","text":"它的「移置保管」就等於是扣車嘛！","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:13.294118+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:13.764706+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:21.846154+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，道交條例有的條文適用行政程序法，有一些故意或過失的規定，沒有的話也可以排除，不是一律沒收啦！","quality":0.787},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:23.714286+08:00","text":"它只是說，不同的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:25.200000+08:00","text":"我現在是講當場就先扣車啦！","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:25.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:25.800000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:26.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:27.636364+08:00","text":"這是執法面的問題，不是……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:28.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:29.600000+08:00","text":"就你們的部分來講呢？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:44.850000+08:00","text":"我們的部分是，如果未來這個法通過的話，我們有規定4款事由，第一線的員警當然要問：你提供車輛有正當理由或沒有正當理由？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:52.875000+08:00","text":"第一線的執法人員會做判斷，他會請示檢察官，因為查扣、扣押權是在檢察官，由檢察官去決定要不要查扣這台車子。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:04.666667+08:00","text":"好，所以就你們的提案條文來講，會當場把這個車子沒收嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:18.800000+08:00","text":"報告委員，沒收最後要經過法院判決，在檢察官階段，他可以先查扣，查扣之後，到底要不要確定沒收，如果這個修正條文通過的話，法官要按照這個條文內容去做沒收與否的決定。","quality":0.819},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:19.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:21.600000+08:00","text":"如果車子不是這個人的呢？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:22.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:34.875000+08:00","text":"如果是第三人所有，我們的條文設計就是他有沒有正當理由去持有這台車，如果是租來的，或是由第三人提供，那個第三人根本不知道你要去毒駕，就不可以波及無辜嘛！","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:38.750000+08:00","text":"我們的條文設計是這種狀況就不讓他沒收。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:39.833333+08:00","text":"就不讓他沒收？對。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:40.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:42.875000+08:00","text":"比如說像租賃車就把它排外就對了？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:45.750000+08:00","text":"對，如果租賃業者不知道的話。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:48.166667+08:00","text":"他不知道你會開車去毒駕。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:50.833333+08:00","text":"假設租賃業者不知道？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:54.900000+08:00","text":"對，這個時候我們的條文設計就是有正當理由。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:57.833333+08:00","text":"所以你們這個規定和道交條例是一樣的嗎？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:58.800000+08:00","text":"大致是一樣的。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:59.750000+08:00","text":"大致一樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:27:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:27:03.600000+08:00","text":"我的意思是說，現在同時有兩部法，一個是刑法，一個是道交……","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:27:04.833333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:27:08.777778+08:00","text":"他們是行政罰的規定，我們這個是刑法的規定，有不同的立法目的。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:27:09.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:27:14.800000+08:00","text":"第一個就是，車子你說要沒收，他們是第一時間就可以扣車。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:27:15.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:27:17.875000+08:00","text":"扣車與否要循行政程序法，有一些排除的規定。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:27:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:27:22.857143+08:00","text":"原則上可以，但如果符合特殊狀況，他也不可以扣；行政程序法有一個特別的規定。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:27:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:27:29.833333+08:00","text":"好，有排除，像租賃業者，你們就會把他排除掉就對了？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:27:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:27:32.785714+08:00","text":"如果我們這個修正條文通過，而且符合其規定的話就會。","quality":0.304},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:27:34.153846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:27:36.272727+08:00","text":"可是道交條例裡面的呢？一樣。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:27:36.545455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:27:53.857143+08:00","text":"我剛剛講過，道路交通管理處罰條例原則上是要查扣、沒入，但是因為它其實是一個行政處分，必須回到行政程序法，行政程序法第二十幾條有一個但書的規定，這個狀態對第三人的又不可以。","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:27:54.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:28:02.875000+08:00","text":"它除了扣車之外，還有吊銷車牌等行政罰的相關規定。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:28:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:28:03.750000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:28:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:28:07.750000+08:00","text":"好，那麼同車的人呢？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:28:07.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T11:28:08.750000+08:00","text":"針對酒駕，同車的人如果知道卻沒有勸阻，他也會有罰鍰，那麼毒駕同車的人呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:28:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:28:29.750000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，同車的部分，道路交通管理處罰條例的新法對同車的人有一個行政處罰的規定，也要罰啦！","quality":0.452},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:28:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:28:51.800000+08:00","text":"但是我們刑法不是這樣，我們刑法是行為人責任的概念，除非你跟那個駕車的人有共犯、教唆犯、幫助犯的關係，刑法可以共同處罰他，如果只是單純的同駕，他沒有犯意聯絡、沒有教唆、沒有幫助，他不是行為人，我們是行為人刑法，所以不可以就這個坐車的人、沒有這些犯意聯絡，就把他……","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:28:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:28:54.833333+08:00","text":"所以只有道交條例的罰鍰就對了？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:28:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:28:56.833333+08:00","text":"對、對、對，道交條例有特殊的行政罰。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:28:57.214286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:10.800000+08:00","text":"因為我看他們對酒駕同車有罰鍰，毒駕同車也有罰鍰，但是如果要到刑事這邊的話……","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:10.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:11.800000+08:00","text":"不一定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:12.818182+08:00","text":"就是你們還要看有沒有……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:13.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:13.800000+08:00","text":"犯意聯絡。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:14.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:19.833333+08:00","text":"就是有沒有犯意聯絡、有沒有去勸阻他、有沒有告知這個……有勸阻的一些義務在就對了？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:20.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:21.666667+08:00","text":"對、對、對，就是教唆他毒駕。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:22.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:27.555556+08:00","text":"如果同坐的人說：你來毒駕，這個時候他就是教唆犯，教唆犯就有刑責，大概就是這樣。","quality":0.618},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:29.833333+08:00","text":"可是我看道交條例……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:30.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:32.636364+08:00","text":"它不是這樣的概念，它是類似連帶責任。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:33.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:43.600000+08:00","text":"我不知道你有沒有看到，他們對毒駕和酒駕罰的錢竟然是一樣的，同行的人，我看都是6,000到1萬5的罰鍰。","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:44.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:47.625000+08:00","text":"交通部主管的法規我們就尊重，我沒有多研究。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:49.545455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:51.727273+08:00","text":"吸毒本身就是一個罪……對！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:52.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:55.857143+08:00","text":"吸毒然後開車，罪當然會更重……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:56.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:56.857143+08:00","text":"那是另外一個罪。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:57.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:30:06.714286+08:00","text":"所以我們是在這個情況之下把它弄得更重，就像喝酒，喝酒本身不違法，喝酒開車就違法，所以又不太一樣了。對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-07-22T11:30:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:30:09.400000+08:00","text":"OK，好，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T11:30:09.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:30:10.600000+08:00","text":"謝謝李委員。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T11:30:11.100000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T11:30:16.814286+08:00","text":"接下來，洪孟楷委員、洪孟楷委員，洪孟楷委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T11:30:17.114286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T11:30:21.971429+08:00","text":"蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T11:30:22.271429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T11:30:25.128571+08:00","text":"接下來有請楊瓊瓔委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1178,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時23分）謝謝主席，請法務部黃次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["黃次長謀信：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：次長好。今天是討論刑法第一百八十五條之三的修正案，這其實就是針對毒駕做加嚴、加重的處理。我先請教一下次長，這次要修正的刑法第一百八十五條之三第七項有沒入車輛這個新的規定，是不是？"],["黃次長謀信：對，沒收。"],["李委員坤城：好，有沒收車輛這個新的規定。現在就是說，抓到毒駕就把這輛車子沒收，是不是？"],["黃次長謀信：不是，我們的條文只講屬於行為人所有，或第三人所有而沒有正當理由提供或取得的這種狀況，以免波及無辜，並不是所有的車輛一律義務沒收。我們的條文設計不是這樣。"],["李委員坤城：可是道交條例呢？"],["黃次長謀信：那個部分我們尊重交通部，那是他們的主管法規，他們有不同的立法目的。"],["李委員坤城：它是規定，只要是毒駕，那個車子就一律沒入，對不對？"],["黃次長謀信：查扣，對。"],["李委員坤城：對啊！就是扣車的意思嘛！"],["黃次長謀信：對。"],["李委員坤城：那你們跟他們不一樣了啊！"],["黃次長謀信：對，不一樣。我們是沒收，它是查扣，或者是行政沒入。"],["李委員坤城：它的「移置保管」就等於是扣車嘛！對不對？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，道交條例有的條文適用行政程序法，有一些故意或過失的規定，沒有的話也可以排除，不是一律沒收啦！它只是說，不同的……"],["李委員坤城：我現在是講當場就先扣車啦！對不對？"],["黃次長謀信：這是執法面的問題，不是……"],["李委員坤城：就你們的部分來講呢？"],["黃次長謀信：我們的部分是，如果未來這個法通過的話，我們有規定4款事由，第一線的員警當然要問：你提供車輛有正當理由或沒有正當理由？第一線的執法人員會做判斷，他會請示檢察官，因為查扣、扣押權是在檢察官，由檢察官去決定要不要查扣這台車子。"],["李委員坤城：好，所以就你們的提案條文來講，會當場把這個車子沒收嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：報告委員，沒收最後要經過法院判決，在檢察官階段，他可以先查扣，查扣之後，到底要不要確定沒收，如果這個修正條文通過的話，法官要按照這個條文內容去做沒收與否的決定。"],["李委員坤城：如果車子不是這個人的呢？"],["黃次長謀信：如果是第三人所有，我們的條文設計就是他有沒有正當理由去持有這台車，如果是租來的，或是由第三人提供，那個第三人根本不知道你要去毒駕，就不可以波及無辜嘛！我們的條文設計是這種狀況就不讓他沒收。"],["李委員坤城：就不讓他沒收？"],["黃次長謀信：對。"],["李委員坤城：比如說像租賃車就把它排外就對了？"],["黃次長謀信：對，如果租賃業者不知道的話。他不知道你會開車去毒駕。"],["李委員坤城：假設租賃業者不知道？"],["黃次長謀信：對，這個時候我們的條文設計就是有正當理由。"],["李委員坤城：所以你們這個規定和道交條例是一樣的嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：大致是一樣的。"],["李委員坤城：大致一樣？我的意思是說，現在同時有兩部法，一個是刑法，一個是道交……"],["黃次長謀信：他們是行政罰的規定，我們這個是刑法的規定，有不同的立法目的。"],["李委員坤城：第一個就是，車子你說要沒收，他們是第一時間就可以扣車。"],["黃次長謀信：扣車與否要循行政程序法，有一些排除的規定。原則上可以，但如果符合特殊狀況，他也不可以扣；行政程序法有一個特別的規定。"],["李委員坤城：好，有排除，像租賃業者，你們就會把他排除掉就對了？"],["黃次長謀信：如果我們這個修正條文通過，而且符合其規定的話就會。"],["李委員坤城：可是道交條例裡面的呢？"],["黃次長謀信：一樣。我剛剛講過，道路交通管理處罰條例原則上是要查扣、沒入，但是因為它其實是一個行政處分，必須回到行政程序法，行政程序法第二十幾條有一個但書的規定，這個狀態對第三人的又不可以。"],["李委員坤城：它除了扣車之外，還有吊銷車牌等行政罰的相關規定。"],["黃次長謀信：對，沒錯。"],["李委員坤城：好，那麼同車的人呢？針對酒駕，同車的人如果知道卻沒有勸阻，他也會有罰鍰，那麼毒駕同車的人呢？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，同車的部分，道路交通管理處罰條例的新法對同車的人有一個行政處罰的規定，也要罰啦！但是我們刑法不是這樣，我們刑法是行為人責任的概念，除非你跟那個駕車的人有共犯、教唆犯、幫助犯的關係，刑法可以共同處罰他，如果只是單純的同駕，他沒有犯意聯絡、沒有教唆、沒有幫助，他不是行為人，我們是行為人刑法，所以不可以就這個坐車的人、沒有這些犯意聯絡，就把他……"],["李委員坤城：所以只有道交條例的罰鍰就對了？"],["黃次長謀信：對、對、對，道交條例有特殊的行政罰。"],["李委員坤城：因為我看他們對酒駕同車有罰鍰，毒駕同車也有罰鍰，但是如果要到刑事這邊的話……"],["黃次長謀信：不一定。"],["李委員坤城：就是你們還要看有沒有……"],["黃次長謀信：犯意聯絡。"],["李委員坤城：就是有沒有犯意聯絡、有沒有去勸阻他、有沒有告知這個……有勸阻的一些義務在就對了？"],["黃次長謀信：對、對、對，就是教唆他毒駕。如果同坐的人說：你來毒駕，這個時候他就是教唆犯，教唆犯就有刑責，大概就是這樣。"],["李委員坤城：可是我看道交條例……"],["黃次長謀信：它不是這樣的概念，它是類似連帶責任。"],["李委員坤城：我不知道你有沒有看到，他們對毒駕和酒駕罰的錢竟然是一樣的，同行的人，我看都是6,000到1萬5的罰鍰。"],["黃次長謀信：交通部主管的法規我們就尊重，我沒有多研究。"],["李委員坤城：吸毒本身就是一個罪……"],["黃次長謀信：對！"],["李委員坤城：吸毒然後開車，罪當然會更重……"],["黃次長謀信：那是另外一個罪。"],["李委員坤城：所以我們是在這個情況之下把它弄得更重，就像喝酒，喝酒本身不違法，喝酒開車就違法，所以又不太一樣了。"],["黃次長謀信：對。"],["李委員坤城：OK，好，謝謝。"],["黃次長謀信：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李委員。","接下來，洪孟楷委員、洪孟楷委員，洪孟楷委員不在。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉委員不在。","接下來有請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-36-26","speakers":["翁曉玲","洪孟楷","陳昭姿","張智倫","林倩綺","林沛祥","張雅琳","沈發惠","范雲","莊瑞雄","許宇甄","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","蔡其昌","吳宗憲","傅崐萁","柯志恩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-22"],"gazette_id":"1156502","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156502_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)行政院、司法院函請審議「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、\n(二)委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三)委員廖\n先翔等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之四條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員洪孟楷等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五)委員徐\n欣瑩等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之四條文修正草案」案、\n(六)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之四條文修正\n草案」案、(七)委員柯志恩等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、\n(八)委員林倩綺等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(九)委員邱\n若華等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十)委員萬美玲等19人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之四條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員\n陳亭妃等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員黃秀芳等\n20人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員林思銘等21人擬具「中華民\n國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員傅崐萁等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第\n一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員陳菁徽等22人擬具「中\n華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員張智倫等16人擬具「中華民國刑\n法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百\n八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條\n之三、第一百八十五條之四及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」案、(二十)台灣民眾黨黨團擬\n具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「中\n華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十二)委員葉元之等18人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十三)委員王義川等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第\n一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十四)委員賴士葆等25人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八\n十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十五)委員涂權吉等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條\n之三及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」案、(二十六)委員楊瓊瓔等31人擬具「中華民國刑法\n第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十七)委員魯明哲等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百\n八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十八)委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五\n條之三條文修正草案」案、(二十九)委員王育敏等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三\n條文修正草案」案、(三十)委員黃健豪等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正\n草案」案、(三十一)委員王美惠等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」\n案、( 三十二) 委員陳素月等17 人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、\n(三十三)委員林淑芬等26人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三十\n四)委員李坤城等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三十五)委\n員盧縣一等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」\n案、( 三十六) 委員謝龍介等16 人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、\n(三十七)委員羅智強等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三十\n八)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(三十九)委\n員李彥秀等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十)委員許宇甄\n等23人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十一)委員萬美玲等17人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、( 四十二) 委員林楚茵等17 人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十三)委員羅美玲等16人擬具「中華\n民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十四)委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「中華民國刑\n法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十五)委員張宏陸等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第一\n百八十五條之三及第一百八十五條之五條文修正草案」案、(四十六)委員李柏毅等16人擬具「中\n華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十七)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(四十八)委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等18人\n擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、 ( 四十九) 委員蔡易餘等16 人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十)委員徐富癸等17人擬具「中華民\n國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十一)委員何欣純等19人擬具「中華民國刑法\n第一百八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十二)委員林宜瑾等23人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百\n八十五條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十三)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五\n條之三條文修正草案」案、(五十四)委員劉建國等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三\n條文修正草案」案、(五十五)委員賴惠員等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修\n正草案」案、( 五十六) 委員郭昱晴等16 人擬具「中華民國刑法第一百八十五條之三條文修正草\n案」案","agenda_id":"1156502_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}