{"error":false,"id":["170666"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170666,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170666","日期":"2026-07-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-20-23","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第23次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":23,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第23次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-22T11:20:34+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-22T11:32:49+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:15","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7469000803f9b6aa096fdaa8fd2e347ba12cc4407a29209f44a10b38cb6ea4e7ac88c721d118b9685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王世堅","委員發言時間":"11:20:34 - 11:32:49","會議時間":"2026-07-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「遺產及贈與稅法」12案：（僅詢答）\n(一)\t本院委員吳秉叡等19人、委員郭昱晴等16人、委員林楚茵等16人、委員王美惠等17人、委員李坤城等19人、委員郭國文等21人分別擬具「遺產及贈與稅法部分條文修正草案」等6案。\n(二)\t本院委員賴惠員等16人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第六條、第十五條及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員王鴻薇等18人、委員林思銘等18人分別擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條條文修正草案」等2案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等17人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員李彥秀等16人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條、第十七條之一及第二十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員賴士葆等26人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第三十條及第四十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查「土地稅法」9案：（僅詢答）\n(一)本院委員李坤城等18人、委員馬文君等20人分別擬具「土地稅法增訂第十七條之一條文草案」等2案。【後1案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】\n(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等18人、委員傅崐萁等19人、委員李彥秀等18人、委員林倩綺等19人、委員賴士葆等41人、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「土地稅法第十七條之一及第十九條條文修正草案」等7案。【後5案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】\n三、審查「房屋稅條例」9案：（僅詢答）\n(一)本院委員李坤城等19人、委員馬文君等21人分別擬具「房屋稅條例增訂第五條之一條文草案」等2案。【後1案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】\n(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等19人、委員傅崐萁等19人、委員李彥秀等18人、委員林倩綺等19人、委員賴士葆等41人、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人分別擬具「房屋稅條例第五條之一及第六條條文修正草案」等7案。【後5案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】\n【7月22日及23日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":4.30034375,"end":9.21096875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":14.25659375,"end":16.38284375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":17.19284375,"end":18.05346875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":18.54284375,"end":19.35284375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":20.399093750000002,"end":24.02721875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":24.820343750000003,"end":29.039093750000003,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":29.882843750000003,"end":33.93284375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":34.877843750000004,"end":41.67846875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":42.10034375,"end":46.60596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":47.12909375,"end":59.127218750000004,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":60.190343750000004,"end":60.612218750000004,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":60.88221875000001,"end":63.73409375000001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":64.08846875,"end":64.83096875000001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":66.02909375,"end":74.56784375000001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":74.95596875000001,"end":78.41534375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":79.42784375000001,"end":80.17034375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":81.23346875,"end":83.73096875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":84.47346875000001,"end":88.86096875000001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":89.46846875,"end":92.06721875000001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":92.38784375,"end":92.82659375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":93.87284375,"end":95.84721875000001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":96.89346875000001,"end":103.77846875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":104.77409375,"end":105.48284375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":106.49534375,"end":107.44034375000001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":109.09409375000001,"end":112.43534375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":115.05096875000001,"end":118.03784375000001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":118.40909375000001,"end":123.55596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":124.29846875000001,"end":127.28534375000001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":127.38659375,"end":129.78284375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":129.90096875,"end":132.87096875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":133.22534375,"end":146.77596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":147.50159375,"end":158.01471875000001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":159.85409375,"end":169.99596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":170.67096875000001,"end":181.08284375000002,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":181.96034375000002,"end":193.28346875000003,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":194.32971875,"end":202.71659375000002,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":203.30721875,"end":205.09596875000003,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":205.31534375,"end":206.63159375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":207.23909375000002,"end":208.69034375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":209.19659375,"end":215.49096875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":216.55409375000002,"end":217.39784375000002,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":218.89971875,"end":219.13596875000002,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":219.16971875000002,"end":220.16534375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":221.11034375000003,"end":224.02971875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":224.02971875,"end":224.35034375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":224.35034375,"end":224.36721875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":224.36721875,"end":224.41784375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":226.37534375,"end":237.83346875,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":238.00221875000003,"end":245.52846875,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":245.74784375000002,"end":263.61846875000003,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":262.11659375,"end":265.64346875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":264.83346875,"end":293.16659375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":265.72784375000003,"end":266.38596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":266.38596875,"end":266.43659375000004,"speaker_score":0.865},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":266.43659375000004,"end":266.47034375000004,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":275.27909375,"end":276.35909375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":294.65159375,"end":299.20784375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":299.61284375,"end":313.36596875000004,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":300.70971875000004,"end":301.06409375000004,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":313.90596875,"end":317.73659375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":318.29346875000005,"end":318.59721875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":319.47471875,"end":320.75721875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":321.14534375,"end":325.11096875000004,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":325.56659375000004,"end":329.97096875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":330.39284375,"end":331.03409375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":332.19846875,"end":332.90721875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":333.81846875,"end":385.05096875000004,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":335.01659375,"end":337.27784375000005,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":385.60784375000003,"end":386.02971875000003,"speaker_score":0.865},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":386.06346875,"end":390.23159375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":388.08846875,"end":431.52471875000003,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":432.16596875000005,"end":433.27971875000003,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":433.83659375,"end":452.70284375000006,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":452.80409375000005,"end":478.63971875000004,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":453.49596875000003,"end":455.18346875000003,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":457.83284375000005,"end":460.51596875,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":466.25346875,"end":466.94534375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":467.26596875,"end":470.01659375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":479.01096875,"end":488.07284375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":488.74784375,"end":489.37221875000006,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":489.76034375,"end":502.16346875000005,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":502.68659375000004,"end":514.0434687500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":514.3134687500001,"end":524.0503437500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":524.38784375,"end":533.7534687500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":534.07409375,"end":536.9428437500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":537.85409375,"end":540.5203437499999,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":541.22909375,"end":550.42596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":551.0165937500001,"end":556.41659375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":556.46721875,"end":561.1753437500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":561.66471875,"end":567.1997187500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":567.3515937500001,"end":578.77596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":579.1303437500001,"end":583.5515937499999,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":583.6359687500001,"end":605.4722187500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":605.7422187500001,"end":606.5859687500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":607.3115937499999,"end":608.4253437500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":609.1003437500001,"end":610.2309687500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":611.12534375,"end":632.77596875,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":633.7040937500001,"end":666.1884687500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":667.84221875,"end":705.20346875,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":696.3103437500001,"end":698.65596875,"speaker_score":0.865},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":700.5122187500001,"end":702.6384687500001,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"王委員世堅","start":703.0772187500002,"end":715.34534375,"speaker_score":0.957},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":705.7434687500001,"end":705.96284375,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":713.8772187500001,"end":714.2990937500001,"speaker_score":0.865},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":714.36659375,"end":720.96471875,"speaker_score":0.865},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊部長翠雲","start":720.0872187500001,"end":723.4284687500001,"speaker_score":0.967},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":721.4540937500001,"end":722.36534375,"speaker_score":0.865},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":723.95159375,"end":727.17471875,"speaker_score":0.865}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":9,"text":"謝謝主席 我請財政部莊部長"},{"start":9,"end":15,"text":"委員好"},{"start":15,"end":19,"text":"部長你辛苦了 我今天兩個問題"},{"start":19,"end":24,"text":"第一個問題就是關於國票金控"},{"start":24,"end":31,"text":"國票金控是我們所有公民營金控當中"},{"start":31,"end":34,"text":"規模最小的一個"},{"start":34,"end":41,"text":"規模不但最小 它獲利也最低"},{"start":41,"end":48,"text":"但是它卻有著很奇怪的這種不當的這種人事開銷"},{"start":48,"end":53,"text":"就是說它竟然設有副董事長"},{"start":53,"end":59,"text":"而這位副董事長年薪還高達兩千萬"},{"start":59,"end":65,"text":"部長 我曾經問過說我們公股的金控"},{"start":65,"end":71,"text":"不管是台銀金 兆豐金 合庫金 第一金 華南金"},{"start":71,"end":74,"text":"人家他們的董事長"},{"start":74,"end":80,"text":"像台灣一彎金控 台銀金"},{"start":80,"end":83,"text":"董事長年薪才三百萬"},{"start":83,"end":87,"text":"就即便是第一金 華南金"},{"start":87,"end":92,"text":"人家也是大概三百萬到五百萬"},{"start":92,"end":96,"text":"而這個最小的國票金"},{"start":96,"end":102,"text":"還不是董事長喔 光副董事長就年薪兩千萬"},{"start":102,"end":104,"text":"這不是很奇怪嗎"},{"start":104,"end":113,"text":"更何況 更大的 更獲利 更高的這些大金控"},{"start":113,"end":118,"text":"都沒有設副董事長"},{"start":118,"end":124,"text":"偏偏全國公民營裡面最小的這一個"},{"start":124,"end":127,"text":"它獨獨只有它設副董事長"},{"start":127,"end":130,"text":"那你們給我的答覆是說"},{"start":130,"end":131,"text":"另外還有一個問題"},{"start":131,"end":133,"text":"還有一個問題 我就說"},{"start":133,"end":136,"text":"我們長年持有國票金"},{"start":136,"end":139,"text":"我們的股份也高過民股 是不是"},{"start":139,"end":142,"text":"要不然這樣 為了整頓它"},{"start":142,"end":149,"text":"那是不是我們公股來併掉整個國票金"},{"start":149,"end":154,"text":"那你們的答覆也是說 沒有那個計畫 沒有那個什麼"},{"start":154,"end":156,"text":"你們的答覆很簡單"},{"start":156,"end":157,"text":"你們的答覆我說"},{"start":157,"end":165,"text":"因為這個國票金非本部直屬投資事業"},{"start":165,"end":166,"text":"你就答覆說"},{"start":166,"end":169,"text":"這個不是你們直屬的投資事業"},{"start":169,"end":173,"text":"那怎麼辦 不是你直屬的投資事業"},{"start":173,"end":179,"text":"但是是由你財政部旗下的這些公股行庫"},{"start":179,"end":181,"text":"他們去持有這些股份啊"},{"start":181,"end":184,"text":"那就是當初買這些股份而已"},{"start":184,"end":187,"text":"買來不想要買什麼意思"},{"start":187,"end":190,"text":"然後現在我們股份也那麼大了"},{"start":190,"end":194,"text":"把它收回自己管 你們也不肯"},{"start":194,"end":196,"text":"那這不是很奇怪嗎"},{"start":196,"end":197,"text":"所以我首先問你就是說"},{"start":197,"end":200,"text":"為什麼要設副董事長"},{"start":200,"end":203,"text":"為什麼這麼高薪"},{"start":203,"end":205,"text":"其他金公都沒有啊"},{"start":205,"end":207,"text":"就只有它有"},{"start":207,"end":209,"text":"這不是很奇怪嗎"},{"start":209,"end":211,"text":"而且聘了這一位"},{"start":211,"end":216,"text":"並不是什麼有名的說財經學者專業的"},{"start":216,"end":218,"text":"多麼不是"},{"start":218,"end":221,"text":"竟然是"},{"start":221,"end":222,"text":"這個我就不提"},{"start":222,"end":226,"text":"那你的看法呢"},{"start":226,"end":227,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":227,"end":229,"text":"有關國票金控"},{"start":229,"end":231,"text":"它有關副董事長的一個設置"},{"start":231,"end":233,"text":"第一個它在章程裡面"},{"start":233,"end":235,"text":"本身就有說"},{"start":235,"end":237,"text":"Bios的設置副董事長"},{"start":237,"end":238,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":238,"end":239,"text":"然後它選任方式"},{"start":239,"end":241,"text":"也要必須依照公司法的規定"},{"start":241,"end":243,"text":"我想這個部分在章程裡面"},{"start":243,"end":245,"text":"本身它必須有相關的規範"},{"start":245,"end":248,"text":"第二個國票金是從100年開始"},{"start":248,"end":250,"text":"它就根據章程設有副董事長"},{"start":250,"end":252,"text":"而這一任的副董事長"},{"start":252,"end":254,"text":"當時的一些設置"},{"start":254,"end":255,"text":"也是經過他們公司"},{"start":255,"end":257,"text":"依照公司法的規定"},{"start":257,"end":260,"text":"經過相關的程序以後完成的"},{"start":260,"end":262,"text":"我想這個是他們公司"},{"start":262,"end":265,"text":"它現在是由我們公股在掌控的"},{"start":265,"end":267,"text":"那這個所謂的人事章程"},{"start":267,"end":269,"text":"不能更改嗎"},{"start":269,"end":271,"text":"有公股也有民股是共治的"},{"start":271,"end":273,"text":"我想這個國票金裡面"},{"start":273,"end":275,"text":"不是全部都是公股"},{"start":275,"end":276,"text":"也還有民股"},{"start":276,"end":279,"text":"但是我們公股在控制不是嗎"},{"start":279,"end":281,"text":"這裡面還有民股"},{"start":281,"end":283,"text":"那都沒辦法去更改嗎"},{"start":283,"end":285,"text":"我想這個部分目前是這樣"},{"start":285,"end":287,"text":"那後續當然會"},{"start":287,"end":289,"text":"根據他們公司經營策略的規劃"},{"start":289,"end":291,"text":"後續如果他們以公司治理的"},{"start":291,"end":293,"text":"一個規範去做處理"},{"start":293,"end":295,"text":"好吧"},{"start":295,"end":297,"text":"你說請"},{"start":297,"end":299,"text":"你就是要求他們去改善嗎"},{"start":299,"end":301,"text":"不是嗎"},{"start":301,"end":303,"text":"那要多久吧"},{"start":303,"end":305,"text":"要多久可以解決這個問題"},{"start":305,"end":307,"text":"另外我們是不是請"},{"start":307,"end":309,"text":"我們持有股份"},{"start":309,"end":311,"text":"我們像公股的兆豐金第一金"},{"start":311,"end":313,"text":"看他們願不願意來"},{"start":313,"end":315,"text":"併掉這個國票金"},{"start":315,"end":317,"text":"它有很多確實是需要"},{"start":319,"end":321,"text":"更有能力"},{"start":321,"end":323,"text":"像我們公股有這麼多"},{"start":323,"end":325,"text":"有能力的經營的那麼好的"},{"start":325,"end":327,"text":"那個"},{"start":327,"end":329,"text":"台銀金控"},{"start":329,"end":331,"text":"也可以啊"},{"start":331,"end":333,"text":"不是嗎"},{"start":333,"end":335,"text":"你看法呢"},{"start":335,"end":337,"text":"我想謝謝"},{"start":337,"end":339,"text":"當然這個公司"},{"start":339,"end":341,"text":"應該要提升"},{"start":341,"end":343,"text":"第一個要把他的公司治理"},{"start":343,"end":345,"text":"上軌道然後要提升他的"},{"start":345,"end":347,"text":"一個經營績效"},{"start":347,"end":349,"text":"那我想這個部分應該要先"},{"start":349,"end":351,"text":"去推動的"},{"start":351,"end":353,"text":"然後後續的下一步呢"},{"start":353,"end":355,"text":"我們當然要兼顧到所謂的相關的法規"},{"start":355,"end":357,"text":"市場的機制"},{"start":357,"end":359,"text":"還有員工的權益都必須要去考慮到"},{"start":359,"end":361,"text":"那我想委員這個建議"},{"start":361,"end":363,"text":"我們也會納入演繹"},{"start":363,"end":365,"text":"然後另外我想我跟委員報告"},{"start":365,"end":367,"text":"其實在公股的部分提升"},{"start":367,"end":369,"text":"經營績效我們目前來說"},{"start":369,"end":371,"text":"有釋迦金控的投信會在"},{"start":371,"end":373,"text":"已經在推動所謂的"},{"start":373,"end":375,"text":"我們把它合併然後併為"},{"start":375,"end":377,"text":"一個然後讓這個市場的"},{"start":377,"end":379,"text":"規模可以更大"},{"start":379,"end":381,"text":"那現在這個公司在做推動的"},{"start":381,"end":383,"text":"那國票金未來我們先把公司治理"},{"start":383,"end":385,"text":"讓上軌道然後提升他的營運績效"},{"start":385,"end":387,"text":"是"},{"start":387,"end":389,"text":"一併考量啦"},{"start":389,"end":391,"text":"因為國票金"},{"start":391,"end":393,"text":"還有其他出的狀況"},{"start":393,"end":395,"text":"我今天是來不及"},{"start":395,"end":397,"text":"敘述"},{"start":397,"end":399,"text":"那我覺得乾脆避其公於一意"},{"start":399,"end":401,"text":"那就是由"},{"start":401,"end":403,"text":"我們找我們公股的行戶"},{"start":403,"end":405,"text":"既然我們現在股份"},{"start":405,"end":407,"text":"已經高於民股"},{"start":407,"end":409,"text":"那乾脆就由我們把它合併"},{"start":409,"end":411,"text":"因為很清楚當初"},{"start":411,"end":413,"text":"副董事長這樣的職務"},{"start":413,"end":415,"text":"完全是"},{"start":415,"end":417,"text":"百分之百的酬庸"},{"start":417,"end":419,"text":"他的工作只有是"},{"start":419,"end":421,"text":"董事長因故不能執行職務"},{"start":421,"end":423,"text":"那個副董事長來代理"},{"start":423,"end":425,"text":"那麼"},{"start":425,"end":427,"text":"舉凡那麼多年的經營"},{"start":427,"end":429,"text":"裡面那董事長"},{"start":429,"end":431,"text":"不能視察實務那個事實上"},{"start":431,"end":433,"text":"根本沒幾次"},{"start":433,"end":435,"text":"而且台北市就"},{"start":435,"end":437,"text":"這麼一丁點大他公司就在"},{"start":437,"end":439,"text":"台北市有什麼"},{"start":439,"end":441,"text":"需要說副董事長代轉"},{"start":441,"end":443,"text":"給董事長的然後年薪"},{"start":443,"end":445,"text":"是兩千萬這看在"},{"start":445,"end":447,"text":"所有不管是公營行戶"},{"start":447,"end":449,"text":"民營行戶"},{"start":449,"end":451,"text":"裡面這個都不成提統"},{"start":451,"end":453,"text":"好不好"},{"start":453,"end":455,"text":"謝謝謝謝我不能說"},{"start":455,"end":457,"text":"這個不是你們直屬的"},{"start":457,"end":459,"text":"這個投資不能這樣"},{"start":459,"end":461,"text":"因為他畢竟"},{"start":461,"end":463,"text":"他畢竟是你"},{"start":463,"end":465,"text":"旗下公股行戶"},{"start":465,"end":467,"text":"他們去持股的好不好"},{"start":467,"end":469,"text":"我們會積極的"},{"start":469,"end":471,"text":"我們時間內就要迎來"},{"start":471,"end":473,"text":"現在新青安"},{"start":473,"end":475,"text":"的3.0版然後"},{"start":475,"end":477,"text":"這是非常好的一件事情"},{"start":477,"end":479,"text":"我看民間"},{"start":479,"end":481,"text":"那個很多民間"},{"start":481,"end":483,"text":"要購屋者他們都"},{"start":483,"end":485,"text":"因應期盼尤其是青年"},{"start":485,"end":487,"text":"購屋族啦不過這個"},{"start":487,"end":489,"text":"部長"},{"start":489,"end":491,"text":"我們在限制說"},{"start":491,"end":493,"text":"青安貸款"},{"start":493,"end":495,"text":"現在額度一樣就是一千萬"},{"start":495,"end":497,"text":"那我們有加分玉宅加兩百萬"},{"start":497,"end":499,"text":"那玉兒宅"},{"start":499,"end":501,"text":"可以到一千五百萬"},{"start":501,"end":503,"text":"但是"},{"start":503,"end":505,"text":"在台北市的部分"},{"start":505,"end":507,"text":"我覺得有這兩個問題"},{"start":507,"end":509,"text":"滿傷腦筋的啦就是說"},{"start":509,"end":511,"text":"你所得上限"},{"start":511,"end":513,"text":"那你限"},{"start":513,"end":515,"text":"兩百萬"},{"start":515,"end":517,"text":"還有我們貸款的"},{"start":517,"end":519,"text":"總額度雖然有"},{"start":519,"end":521,"text":"越高於其他縣市"},{"start":521,"end":523,"text":"但是台北市的"},{"start":523,"end":525,"text":"房價"},{"start":525,"end":527,"text":"那麼待會您可以看列出來的"},{"start":527,"end":529,"text":"很多的地方多數地方"},{"start":529,"end":531,"text":"平均價格幾乎"},{"start":531,"end":533,"text":"是外縣市的"},{"start":533,"end":535,"text":"兩倍甚至是"},{"start":535,"end":537,"text":"中南部的三倍之多"},{"start":537,"end":539,"text":"你看"},{"start":539,"end":541,"text":"六都房屋"},{"start":541,"end":543,"text":"每坪成交價"},{"start":543,"end":545,"text":"不管新舊屋平均下來"},{"start":545,"end":547,"text":"台北市是81萬8"},{"start":547,"end":549,"text":"新北市45萬2"},{"start":551,"end":553,"text":"等於將近兩倍之高"},{"start":553,"end":555,"text":"那如果說跟"},{"start":555,"end":557,"text":"桃園台中"},{"start":557,"end":559,"text":"相比"},{"start":559,"end":561,"text":"那等於是將近三倍"},{"start":561,"end":563,"text":"所以那你"},{"start":563,"end":565,"text":"增加給他能夠的貸款的額度"},{"start":565,"end":567,"text":"就多那麼一點點"},{"start":567,"end":569,"text":"那這個額度是不是"},{"start":569,"end":571,"text":"可以適度再提高"},{"start":571,"end":573,"text":"否則同樣的"},{"start":573,"end":575,"text":"額度"},{"start":575,"end":577,"text":"同樣你們設限"},{"start":577,"end":579,"text":"貸款的總金額"},{"start":579,"end":581,"text":"那麼在台北買的"},{"start":581,"end":583,"text":"大概就是只能買個小套房"},{"start":583,"end":585,"text":"沒辦法家裡"},{"start":585,"end":587,"text":"別說三代同堂了啦"},{"start":587,"end":589,"text":"要這個生兒育兒"},{"start":589,"end":591,"text":"兩代住一起都困難"},{"start":591,"end":593,"text":"那另外一點就是說"},{"start":593,"end":595,"text":"關於婚禦宅"},{"start":595,"end":597,"text":"你們有增加"},{"start":597,"end":599,"text":"他200萬的額度"},{"start":599,"end":601,"text":"貸款額度"},{"start":601,"end":603,"text":"那育兒宅增加到500萬"},{"start":603,"end":605,"text":"又增加300萬"},{"start":605,"end":607,"text":"但是"},{"start":607,"end":609,"text":"寬限期啦"},{"start":609,"end":611,"text":"我們就指"},{"start":611,"end":613,"text":"比方說我們比方一對"},{"start":613,"end":615,"text":"年輕的夫妻要結婚"},{"start":615,"end":617,"text":"他來買這樣子的"},{"start":617,"end":619,"text":"育兒宅"},{"start":619,"end":621,"text":"以這個名義來買"},{"start":621,"end":623,"text":"新婚那一年"},{"start":623,"end":625,"text":"懷孕生小孩"},{"start":625,"end":627,"text":"那小孩六歲"},{"start":627,"end":629,"text":"以前最需要照顧"},{"start":629,"end":631,"text":"花費也最多這樣加"},{"start":631,"end":633,"text":"加起來也要七年啊"},{"start":633,"end":635,"text":"所以我認為說"},{"start":635,"end":637,"text":"我們如果硬性"},{"start":637,"end":639,"text":"規定只能五年"},{"start":639,"end":641,"text":"比照一般都是五年"},{"start":641,"end":643,"text":"我們將是為得不足啦"},{"start":643,"end":645,"text":"所以我認為說"},{"start":645,"end":647,"text":"就不差那麼一點"},{"start":647,"end":649,"text":"應該真正要育兒的"},{"start":649,"end":651,"text":"新婚夫妻"},{"start":651,"end":653,"text":"是不是我們應該放寬"},{"start":653,"end":655,"text":"這個寬限期"},{"start":655,"end":657,"text":"把五年再放寬兩年"},{"start":657,"end":659,"text":"因為這是比較"},{"start":659,"end":661,"text":"現在我們少子化"},{"start":661,"end":663,"text":"已經少子化到"},{"start":663,"end":665,"text":"非常嚴重的國安問題啦"},{"start":665,"end":667,"text":"好不好"},{"start":667,"end":669,"text":"指教"},{"start":669,"end":671,"text":"我想這個我們3.0是經過多次會議"},{"start":671,"end":673,"text":"討論結果"},{"start":673,"end":675,"text":"那您剛剛提到婚育宅的寬限期"},{"start":675,"end":677,"text":"我想剛剛"},{"start":677,"end":679,"text":"我們也提到就是說其實對於"},{"start":679,"end":681,"text":"少子化這個問題政府是整套"},{"start":681,"end":683,"text":"政策在做的"},{"start":683,"end":685,"text":"所以我們有一個人口對策的新戰略"},{"start":685,"end":687,"text":"裡面包含對育兒家庭的公托"},{"start":687,"end":689,"text":"然後托育補助育兒補助"},{"start":689,"end":691,"text":"以及成長經貼"},{"start":691,"end":693,"text":"是有許多用現金直接給予補助的"},{"start":693,"end":695,"text":"好我想這個部分"},{"start":695,"end":697,"text":"可以強化他們的"},{"start":697,"end":699,"text":"你回去好好研究"},{"start":699,"end":701,"text":"差那兩年差非常多"},{"start":701,"end":703,"text":"這個也要考慮他們的"},{"start":703,"end":705,"text":"如果"},{"start":705,"end":707,"text":"有辦法團圍審核條件"},{"start":707,"end":709,"text":"來貸款到的"},{"start":709,"end":711,"text":"他們也都有"},{"start":711,"end":713,"text":"償還能力"},{"start":713,"end":715,"text":"不差那兩年的寬限期"},{"start":715,"end":717,"text":"好請財政部"},{"start":717,"end":719,"text":"研究完之後再跟王委員"},{"start":719,"end":721,"text":"書面報告"},{"start":721,"end":723,"text":"我們也書面報告謝謝委員指教"},{"start":723,"end":725,"text":"下一位"},{"start":725,"end":727,"text":"請羅明財委員諮詢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:20:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:20:36.250000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:20:36.250000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T11:20:37.750000+08:00","text":"請財政部莊部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T11:20:37.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:20:42.250000+08:00","text":"請財政部莊部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:20:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:20:47+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:20:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:20:50.538462+08:00","text":"部長，你辛苦了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:20:50.846154+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:20:57.615385+08:00","text":"我今天有兩個問題請教，第一問題就是關於國票金控。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:20:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:21:32.600000+08:00","text":"國票金控是所有公民營金控當中規模最小的一個，不但規模最小，獲利也最低，卻有著很奇怪的不當人事開銷，也就是說，它竟然設有副董事長，而這位副董事長年薪還高達2,000萬！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:21:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:22:17.714286+08:00","text":"部長，我曾經問過，公股金控不管是臺銀金、兆豐金、合庫金、第一金、華南金，他們的董事長，像臺銀金董事長年薪才300萬；即便是第一金、華南金，人家也大概是300萬到500萬，但是這個最小的國票金，還不是董事長，光副董事長就年薪2,000萬，這不是很奇怪嗎？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:22:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:22:40.727273+08:00","text":"更何況更大、獲利更高的大金控都沒有設副董事長，偏偏全國公民營裡最小的這個，獨獨只有它設副董事長！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:22:41.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:22:43.700000+08:00","text":"你們給我的答復說……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:22:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:23:02.562500+08:00","text":"另外還有一個問題，也就是政府長年持有國票金，股份也高過民股，要不然這樣，為了整頓它，是不是由公股來併掉國票金？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:23:03.238095+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:23:07.761905+08:00","text":"你們的答復是說沒有計畫、沒有什麼。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:23:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:23:21.153846+08:00","text":"你們的答復很簡單，你們說因為國票金非本部直屬投資事業，你們答復這個不是你們的直屬投資事業，怎麼辦？","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:23:21.384615+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:23:49.750000+08:00","text":"不是直屬的投資事業，卻由財政部旗下的公股行庫持有這些股份，也就是當初只是買股份而已，但不知道在買什麼意思，我說現在股份那麼大了，所以收回來自己管，你們也不肯，這不是很奇怪嗎？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:23:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:23:53.666667+08:00","text":"所以我首先問你，為什麼要設副董事長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:23:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:23:56.571429+08:00","text":"為什麼這麼高薪？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:23:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:24:02.714286+08:00","text":"其他金控都沒有，就只有它有，這不是很奇怪嗎？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:24:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:24:19.333333+08:00","text":"而且聘的這一位還並不是什麼有名的財經學者或專業人士，通通不是，竟然是……這個我就不提，那你的看法呢？","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:24:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:24:38.818182+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有關國票金控副董事長的設置，第一、在章程裡面就有說必要時得設置副董事長，然後選任方式也必須依照公司法的規定，我想這個部分在章程裡面必須有相關的規範。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:24:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:24:55.777778+08:00","text":"第二、國票金是從100年開始就根據章程設有副董事長，而這一任副董事長的設置，也是他們公司依照公司法的規定，經過相關程序以後完成的，我想這個是他們公司治理的一環。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:24:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:02.600000+08:00","text":"它現在是由我們公股在掌控的，所謂的人事章程不能更改嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:09.800000+08:00","text":"有公股也有民股，是共治的，我想國票金不是全部都是公股，也還有民股。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:12.750000+08:00","text":"但是我們公股在控制，不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:14.714286+08:00","text":"這裡面還有民股。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:15.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:16.777778+08:00","text":"都沒辦法去更改嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:26.750000+08:00","text":"我想這個部分目前是這樣，後續當然會根據他們公司經營策略的規劃，以公司治理的規範去處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:34.333333+08:00","text":"你就是要求他們去改善，不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:38.818182+08:00","text":"那要多久可以解決這個問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:25:48.714286+08:00","text":"另外，我們是不是請持有股份的像公股的兆豐金、第一金，看他們願不願意來併掉國票金？","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:25:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:06.333333+08:00","text":"它確實有很多地方需要更有能力的來經營，像我們公股有這麼多有能力的、經營的那麼好的，臺銀金控也可以啊，不是嗎？","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:08.500000+08:00","text":"你的看法呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:10.500000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員指教。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:10.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:11.500000+08:00","text":"總是要做個整頓，不是嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:24+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的指教，當然、當然，公司要提升第一個要讓公司治理上軌道，然後要提升它的經營績效，我想這個部分應該要先去推動。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:25.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:32.733333+08:00","text":"至於後續的下一步，我們當然要兼顧到相關法規、市場機制，還有員工的權益，都必須要去考慮。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:33.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:36.250000+08:00","text":"我想委員這個建議，我們會納入研議。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:26:37.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:26:58.857143+08:00","text":"另外我想跟委員報告，其實在公股的部分提升經營績效，目前來說有4家金控的投信已經在推動合併，併為一個，讓市場的規模可以更大，這是我們持續在推動的，未來我們先把國票金的公司治理上軌道，然後提升它的營運績效。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:27:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:27:02.600000+08:00","text":"好，一併考量啦，好不好？當然！","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:27:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:27:22.818182+08:00","text":"因為國票金還有出其他狀況，我今天來不及敘述，那我覺得乾脆畢其功於一役，就是找我們公股行庫，既然現在公股股份已經高於民股，那是不是乾脆就由我們把它合併？","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:27:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:27:57.857143+08:00","text":"因為很清楚當初設副董事長這樣的職務，完全是百分之百的酬庸，他的工作只有董事長因故不能執行職務時，由副董事長來代理，舉凡那麼多年的經營裡面，董事長不能執行職務的事實上根本沒幾次，而且臺北市就這麼一丁點大，它公司就在臺北市，有什麼需要由副董事長代轉給董事長的，然後年薪是兩千萬？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:27:59.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:28:06.333333+08:00","text":"不管是在公營行庫或民營行庫，這個都不成體統，好不好？部長。","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:28:06.333333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-22T11:28:08.250000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的指教。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:28:08.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:28:20.111111+08:00","text":"不能說這個投資業務不是你們直屬的，不能這樣，因為它畢竟是你旗下公股行庫去持股的。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:28:20.777778+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:28:22.333333+08:00","text":"好，我們會積極督導公股事業。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:28:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:30.750000+08:00","text":"第二點，我們10天後就要迎來新青安的3.0版，這是非常好的一件事情，我看很多民間的購屋者都殷殷期盼，尤其是青年購屋族，不過，部長，我們在限制青安貸款，現在額度一樣，就是1,000萬，那我們有加了婚育宅加200萬，育兒宅可以到1,500萬，但是在臺北市的部分，我覺得有這兩個問題滿傷腦筋的，就是所得上限限200萬，還有貸款的總額度雖然有略高於其他縣市，但是臺北市的房價，待會您可以看列表，很多地方、多數地方平均價格幾乎是外縣市的兩倍，甚至是中南部的三倍之多！","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:29:54.750000+08:00","text":"你看六都房屋每坪成交價，不管新、舊屋，平均下來臺北市是81.8萬，新北市45.2萬，等於將近兩倍之高，如果跟桃園、臺中相比，那等於是將近三倍。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:29:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:30:04.714286+08:00","text":"所以你增加給他能夠貸款的額度就多那麼一點點，這個額度是不是可以適度再提高？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:30:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:30:24.750000+08:00","text":"否則同樣的額度、同樣你們設限貸款的總金額，在臺北大概就是只能買個小套房，別說三代同堂了，要生兒、育兒，兩代住一起都困難。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:30:25.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:31:16.777778+08:00","text":"另外一點就是，你們有增加婚育宅200萬的貸款額度，那育兒宅增加到500萬，又增加300萬，但是寬限期，比方有一對年輕的夫妻要以這個名義來買育兒宅，新婚那一年懷孕、生小孩，小孩6歲以前最需要照顧，花費也最多，這樣加起來也要7年，所以我認為如果硬性規定只能5年，比照一般都是5年，我們將是為德不卒啦！","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:31:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:31:30.750000+08:00","text":"所以我認為不差那麼一點，對於真正要育兒的新婚夫妻，是不是應該放寬這個寬限期，把5年再放寬2年？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:31:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:31:38.600000+08:00","text":"因為這是比較特殊的情況，現在我們少子化已經到非常嚴重的國安問題了。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:31:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:31:46.500000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的指教，3.0是經過多次會議討論的結果。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:31:47.153846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:32:10.714286+08:00","text":"您剛剛提到婚育宅的寬限期，剛剛我們也提到，對於少子化這個問題，政府是整套政策在做的，所以我們有一個人口對策的新戰略，裡面包含對於育兒家庭的公托、托育補助、育兒補助及成長津貼，許多是用現金直接給予補助的，我想這個部分可以強化他們更高的經濟能力。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:32:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:32:14.750000+08:00","text":"部長，你回去好好研究，差那2年差非常多……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:32:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:32:16.777778+08:00","text":"這也要考慮他們的財務分配……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員世堅","start":"2026-07-22T11:32:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:32:28.777778+08:00","text":"如果有辦法通過審核條件來貸款到的，他們也都有償還能力，不差那2年的寬限期。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T11:32:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:32:34.500000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝王委員，請財政部研究完之後，再跟王委員書面報告。謝謝。","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-22T11:32:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:32:36.846154+08:00","text":"我們提出書面報告，謝謝委員指教，謝謝。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-22T11:32:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-22T11:32:40.750000+08:00","text":"下一位請羅明才委員質詢。","quality":0.818}]},"gazette":{"lineno":603,"blocks":[["王委員世堅：（11時20分）謝謝主席。請財政部莊部長。"],["主席：請財政部莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["王委員世堅：部長，你辛苦了。我今天有兩個問題請教，第一問題就是關於國票金控。國票金控是所有公民營金控當中規模最小的一個，不但規模最小，獲利也最低，卻有著很奇怪的不當人事開銷，也就是說，它竟然設有副董事長，而這位副董事長年薪還高達2,000萬！部長，我曾經問過，公股金控不管是臺銀金、兆豐金、合庫金、第一金、華南金，他們的董事長，像臺銀金董事長年薪才300萬；即便是第一金、華南金，人家也大概是300萬到500萬，但是這個最小的國票金，還不是董事長，光副董事長就年薪2,000萬，這不是很奇怪嗎？更何況更大、獲利更高的大金控都沒有設副董事長，偏偏全國公民營裡最小的這個，獨獨只有它設副董事長！你們給我的答復說……","另外還有一個問題，也就是政府長年持有國票金，股份也高過民股，要不然這樣，為了整頓它，是不是由公股來併掉國票金？你們的答復是說沒有計畫、沒有什麼。你們的答復很簡單，你們說因為國票金非本部直屬投資事業，你們答復這個不是你們的直屬投資事業，怎麼辦？不是直屬的投資事業，卻由財政部旗下的公股行庫持有這些股份，也就是當初只是買股份而已，但不知道在買什麼意思，我說現在股份那麼大了，所以收回來自己管，你們也不肯，這不是很奇怪嗎？","所以我首先問你，為什麼要設副董事長？為什麼這麼高薪？其他金控都沒有，就只有它有，這不是很奇怪嗎？而且聘的這一位還並不是什麼有名的財經學者或專業人士，通通不是，竟然是……這個我就不提，那你的看法呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，有關國票金控副董事長的設置，第一、在章程裡面就有說必要時得設置副董事長，然後選任方式也必須依照公司法的規定，我想這個部分在章程裡面必須有相關的規範。第二、國票金是從100年開始就根據章程設有副董事長，而這一任副董事長的設置，也是他們公司依照公司法的規定，經過相關程序以後完成的，我想這個是他們公司治理的一環。"],["王委員世堅：它現在是由我們公股在掌控的，所謂的人事章程不能更改嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：有公股也有民股，是共治的，我想國票金不是全部都是公股，也還有民股。"],["王委員世堅：但是我們公股在控制，不是嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這裡面還有民股。"],["王委員世堅：都沒辦法去更改嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想這個部分目前是這樣，後續當然會根據他們公司經營策略的規劃，以公司治理的規範去處理。"],["王委員世堅：你就是要求他們去改善，不是嗎？那要多久可以解決這個問題？另外，我們是不是請持有股份的像公股的兆豐金、第一金，看他們願不願意來併掉國票金？它確實有很多地方需要更有能力的來經營，像我們公股有這麼多有能力的、經營的那麼好的，臺銀金控也可以啊，不是嗎？你的看法呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員指教。"],["王委員世堅：總是要做個整頓，不是嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員的指教，當然、當然，公司要提升第一個要讓公司治理上軌道，然後要提升它的經營績效，我想這個部分應該要先去推動。至於後續的下一步，我們當然要兼顧到相關法規、市場機制，還有員工的權益，都必須要去考慮。我想委員這個建議，我們會納入研議。另外我想跟委員報告，其實在公股的部分提升經營績效，目前來說有4家金控的投信已經在推動合併，併為一個，讓市場的規模可以更大，這是我們持續在推動的，未來我們先把國票金的公司治理上軌道，然後提升它的營運績效。"],["王委員世堅：好，一併考量啦，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然！"],["王委員世堅：因為國票金還有出其他狀況，我今天來不及敘述，那我覺得乾脆畢其功於一役，就是找我們公股行庫，既然現在公股股份已經高於民股，那是不是乾脆就由我們把它合併？因為很清楚當初設副董事長這樣的職務，完全是百分之百的酬庸，他的工作只有董事長因故不能執行職務時，由副董事長來代理，舉凡那麼多年的經營裡面，董事長不能執行職務的事實上根本沒幾次，而且臺北市就這麼一丁點大，它公司就在臺北市，有什麼需要由副董事長代轉給董事長的，然後年薪是兩千萬？不管是在公營行庫或民營行庫，這個都不成體統，好不好？部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員的指教。"],["王委員世堅：不能說這個投資業務不是你們直屬的，不能這樣，因為它畢竟是你旗下公股行庫去持股的。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，我們會積極督導公股事業。"],["王委員世堅：第二點，我們10天後就要迎來新青安的3.0版，這是非常好的一件事情，我看很多民間的購屋者都殷殷期盼，尤其是青年購屋族，不過，部長，我們在限制青安貸款，現在額度一樣，就是1,000萬，那我們有加了婚育宅加200萬，育兒宅可以到1,500萬，但是在臺北市的部分，我覺得有這兩個問題滿傷腦筋的，就是所得上限限200萬，還有貸款的總額度雖然有略高於其他縣市，但是臺北市的房價，待會您可以看列表，很多地方、多數地方平均價格幾乎是外縣市的兩倍，甚至是中南部的三倍之多！你看六都房屋每坪成交價，不管新、舊屋，平均下來臺北市是81.8萬，新北市45.2萬，等於將近兩倍之高，如果跟桃園、臺中相比，那等於是將近三倍。所以你增加給他能夠貸款的額度就多那麼一點點，這個額度是不是可以適度再提高？否則同樣的額度、同樣你們設限貸款的總金額，在臺北大概就是只能買個小套房，別說三代同堂了，要生兒、育兒，兩代住一起都困難。","另外一點就是，你們有增加婚育宅200萬的貸款額度，那育兒宅增加到500萬，又增加300萬，但是寬限期，比方有一對年輕的夫妻要以這個名義來買育兒宅，新婚那一年懷孕、生小孩，小孩6歲以前最需要照顧，花費也最多，這樣加起來也要7年，所以我認為如果硬性規定只能5年，比照一般都是5年，我們將是為德不卒啦！所以我認為不差那麼一點，對於真正要育兒的新婚夫妻，是不是應該放寬這個寬限期，把5年再放寬2年？因為這是比較特殊的情況，現在我們少子化已經到非常嚴重的國安問題了。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員的指教，3.0是經過多次會議討論的結果。您剛剛提到婚育宅的寬限期，剛剛我們也提到，對於少子化這個問題，政府是整套政策在做的，所以我們有一個人口對策的新戰略，裡面包含對於育兒家庭的公托、托育補助、育兒補助及成長津貼，許多是用現金直接給予補助的，我想這個部分可以強化他們更高的經濟能力。"],["王委員世堅：部長，你回去好好研究，差那2年差非常多……"],["莊部長翠雲：這也要考慮他們的財務分配……"],["王委員世堅：如果有辦法通過審核條件來貸款到的，他們也都有償還能力，不差那2年的寬限期。"],["主席：好，謝謝王委員，請財政部研究完之後，再跟王委員書面報告。謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們提出書面報告，謝謝委員指教，謝謝。"],["主席：下一位請羅明才委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":408,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-23","speakers":["吳秉叡","林楚茵","張智倫","賴士葆","林倩綺","林德福","郭國文","賴惠員","劉書彬","李坤城","林思銘","顏寬恒","李彥秀","王世堅","羅明才","鍾佳濱","許忠信","陳玉珍"],"page_start":361,"meetingDate":["2026-07-22"],"gazette_id":"1156601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「遺產及贈與稅法」12案：（詢答）(一)本院委員吳秉叡等19人、委員郭昱晴等16人、\n委員林楚茵等16人、委員王美惠等17人、委員李坤城等19人、委員郭國文等21人分別擬具「遺產\n及贈與稅法部分條文修正草案」等6案、(二)本院委員賴惠員等16人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第六\n條、第十五條及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員王鴻薇等18人、委員林思銘等18\n人分別擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條條文修正草案」等2案、(四)本院委員張智倫等17人擬具\n「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條及第十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員李彥秀等16人擬具\n「遺產及贈與稅法第十五條、第十七條之一及第二十九條條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員賴士\n葆等26 人擬具「遺產及贈與稅法第三十條及第四十一條條文修正草案」案；二、審查「土地稅\n法」9案：（詢答）(一)本院委員李坤城等18人、委員馬文君等20人分別擬具「土地稅法增訂第\n十七條之一條文草案」等2案、(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等 18人、委員傅崐萁等19\n人、委員李彥秀等18人、委員林倩綺等19人、委員賴士葆等41人、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人\n分別擬具「土地稅法第十七條之一及第十九條條文修正草案」等7案；三、審查「房屋稅條例」9\n案：（詢答）(一)本院委員李坤城等19人、委員馬文君等21人分別擬具「房屋稅條例增訂第五條\n之一條文草案」等2案、(二)行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等19人、委員傅崐萁等19人、委\n員李彥秀等18人、委員林倩綺等19人、委員賴士葆等41人、委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人分別擬\n具「房屋稅條例第五條之一及第六條條文修正草案」等7案","agenda_id":"1156601_00017"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}