{"error":false,"id":["170675"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170675,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170675","日期":"2026-07-22","會議資料":null,"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-22T12:12:04+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-22T12:28:26+08:00","影片長度":"00:16:22","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7469000803f9b6aa45ddac5e690680caa27d63d5dbb97eb28d89b34c8036b8f29536cfb3f57e8d525ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"12:12:04 - 12:28:26","會議時間":"2026-07-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"（變更議程）立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）\n邀請衛生福利部部長、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護處、經濟部、法務部、國防部及教育部就「致癌食用油成因、流向、稽查、資訊公開、風險評估、團體訴訟、求償機制，行政法律究責、未來具體改進措施及期程等事宜」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n邀請衛生福利部部長、行政院食品安全辦公室、教育部及農業部就「近期發布《農藥殘留容許量標準》(如其中蘋果芬普寧藥殘標準從0.5ppm放寬至3.0ppm等)之各項依據及修正標準」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n討論事項\n一、審查行政院函送財團法人國家衛生研究院115年度工作計畫及收支預算案。\n二、審查衛生福利部函送財團法人醫院評鑑暨醫療品質策進會等9家財團法人115年度預算書案。\n【以上專題報告及預算案綜合詢答；預算案，僅詢答，115年7月30日下午5時截止收案】\n（下午2時30分起，若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n三、繼續審查及審查「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」等73案。\n(一)繼續審查行政院函請審議「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)繼續審查委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)繼續審查委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)繼續審查委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(五)繼續審查委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n......（完整內容，詳見議事日程）\n(六十四)審查委員高金素梅等18人擬具「國民年金法第三十一條、第五十三條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(六十五)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六十六)審查委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六十七)審查委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六十八)審查委員賴士葆等25人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(六十九)審查委員廖偉翔等21人擬具「國民年金法第三十九條、第三十九條之一及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n(七十)審查委員涂權吉等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(七十一)審查委員林思銘等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條、第三十一條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n(七十二)審查國民黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第三十九條、第三十九條之一及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n(七十三)審查委員游顥等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【逐條討論，不詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.042843750000001,"end":7.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.164718750000002,"end":9.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.10034375,"end":16.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.22659375,"end":26.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.676593750000002,"end":36.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.05471875,"end":43.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.361593750000004,"end":49.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.909093750000004,"end":52.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.71471875,"end":53.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.845343750000005,"end":54.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.195343750000006,"end":56.595968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.304718750000006,"end":60.375968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.71784375,"end":61.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.06784375,"end":69.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.26971875000001,"end":69.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.97784375,"end":71.37846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.49659375,"end":96.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.58534375,"end":97.93971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.32784375,"end":99.40784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.40784375000001,"end":99.42471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.42471875000001,"end":99.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.74534375,"end":107.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.81596875000001,"end":108.89159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.80721875,"end":113.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.54534375,"end":130.94721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.50409375,"end":135.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.64659375000002,"end":138.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.37221875,"end":140.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.41409375,"end":142.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.28284375,"end":144.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.98721875,"end":150.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.92784375000002,"end":157.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.49159375000002,"end":164.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.25034375,"end":175.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.56034375000002,"end":179.80034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.61034375,"end":182.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.55096875,"end":182.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.71971875,"end":183.19221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.58034375000003,"end":186.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.29284375,"end":191.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.96721875,"end":194.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.00096875,"end":194.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.73034375,"end":197.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.39659375000002,"end":199.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.18534375000002,"end":202.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.66596875000002,"end":236.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.77721875,"end":223.38846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.69221875000002,"end":225.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.54846875,"end":225.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.81721875000002,"end":236.43284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.58471875,"end":236.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.41159375,"end":243.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.18721875000003,"end":244.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.63409375,"end":256.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.38784375000003,"end":255.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.05846875000003,"end":281.72534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.48471875,"end":284.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.34096875,"end":285.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.92721875,"end":288.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.47534375000004,"end":288.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.54284375000003,"end":289.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.77471875000003,"end":289.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.09534375000004,"end":318.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.78721875,"end":291.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.30221875,"end":319.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.50846875,"end":319.52534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.52534375000005,"end":319.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.55909375000005,"end":319.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.96409375,"end":320.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.03159375,"end":320.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.80784375,"end":320.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.84159375,"end":320.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.29284375000003,"end":322.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.32659375000003,"end":322.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.96784375000004,"end":323.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.03534375000004,"end":324.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.63846875,"end":333.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.59909375,"end":333.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.93659375000004,"end":333.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.95346875,"end":342.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.83096875,"end":335.79284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.07534375,"end":337.24409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.34409375,"end":350.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.03971875,"end":351.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.20346875,"end":355.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.94596875,"end":357.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.79784375,"end":359.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.19409375000004,"end":361.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.59034375000005,"end":364.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.81784375,"end":367.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.05409375000005,"end":365.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.66159375,"end":366.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.93971875,"end":382.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.72409375,"end":371.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.59721875,"end":374.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.09034375000005,"end":376.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.78221875,"end":377.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.57909375,"end":387.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.46409375,"end":393.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.92721875,"end":411.84846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.18159375000005,"end":434.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.43471875,"end":413.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.34534375000004,"end":421.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.90846875000005,"end":445.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.42534375,"end":455.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.63471875000005,"end":460.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.05596875000003,"end":467.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.10159375,"end":466.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.09721875,"end":467.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.23221875,"end":468.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.15596875000006,"end":482.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.97659375,"end":523.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.4597187500001,"end":529.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.3447187500001,"end":546.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.2197187500001,"end":547.8272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.04659375,"end":557.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.2053437500001,"end":572.2790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.61659375,"end":573.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.5109687500001,"end":576.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.98721875,"end":587.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.51409375,"end":582.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.9397187500001,"end":584.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.0065937500001,"end":590.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.79971875,"end":590.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.79096875,"end":594.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.3515937500001,"end":597.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.38534375,"end":597.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.9965937500001,"end":611.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.7834687500001,"end":611.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.8003437500001,"end":635.9990937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.0034687500001,"end":651.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.35534375,"end":665.6484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.09221875,"end":680.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.15659375,"end":682.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.0634687500001,"end":684.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.13096875,"end":683.5359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":685.25721875,"end":690.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.27409375,"end":709.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.8272187500002,"end":712.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.3372187500001,"end":722.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.6184687500001,"end":739.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.31659375,"end":741.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.7209687500001,"end":749.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.65221875,"end":775.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":773.2434687500001,"end":777.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":777.79971875,"end":784.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":782.2040937500001,"end":827.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":827.6484687500001,"end":833.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":833.2678437500001,"end":837.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":838.7859687500002,"end":840.8953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":839.08971875,"end":842.2622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":841.77284375,"end":852.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":853.45034375,"end":859.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":854.46284375,"end":858.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":859.79534375,"end":879.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":878.34096875,"end":893.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":883.9097187500001,"end":886.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":893.10659375,"end":893.4778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":893.66346875,"end":912.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":910.28534375,"end":948.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":948.5747187500001,"end":957.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":953.6372187500001,"end":969.9890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":970.47846875,"end":972.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":972.87471875,"end":979.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":978.46034375,"end":979.9284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":980.58659375,"end":980.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":980.60346875,"end":981.3628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":981.9197187500001,"end":982.96596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":8,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請食藥署署長"},{"start":8,"end":10,"text":"請加治綱署長"},{"start":15,"end":16,"text":"委員好"},{"start":16,"end":20,"text":"署長好 我昨天看到你們最新的說法"},{"start":20,"end":22,"text":"這是中原遊子的這個食安事件"},{"start":22,"end":26,"text":"是中原去年調高大豆的這個"},{"start":26,"end":30,"text":"這個熱損率還有製程管品管有問題"},{"start":30,"end":32,"text":"所以造成今年4到6月的"},{"start":32,"end":36,"text":"有7批的有品的BAP的超標"},{"start":36,"end":40,"text":"就是說他原本的熱損率是0.5%"},{"start":40,"end":41,"text":"他們之前買"},{"start":41,"end":46,"text":"那去年要調到這個5%才也就近了"},{"start":46,"end":49,"text":"他去年從去年就開始調到5%"},{"start":49,"end":50,"text":"是這樣嗎"},{"start":50,"end":52,"text":"這邊跟委員報告"},{"start":52,"end":56,"text":"他們公司分上半年下半年"},{"start":56,"end":60,"text":"大概在3月以前的是美國豆"},{"start":60,"end":61,"text":"他是去年什麼時候"},{"start":61,"end":63,"text":"美國豆下半年的時候"},{"start":63,"end":65,"text":"在4月份接下來"},{"start":65,"end":68,"text":"我的意思是說他從0.5調到5%"},{"start":68,"end":69,"text":"是去年才調的嗎"},{"start":69,"end":71,"text":"這是在114年的6月4日"},{"start":71,"end":73,"text":"好 去年進口這個巴西的大豆"},{"start":73,"end":76,"text":"時間集中在3月到9月嘛 對不對"},{"start":76,"end":77,"text":"對"},{"start":77,"end":78,"text":"是這樣嘛"},{"start":78,"end":80,"text":"然後有將近87萬9千公噸"},{"start":80,"end":83,"text":"保守估計可以做成10萬噸的沙拉油"},{"start":83,"end":89,"text":"那以家庭用的標準瓶的600ml的瓶子來算的話"},{"start":89,"end":91,"text":"可以裝1.8億瓶"},{"start":91,"end":93,"text":"你們怎麼有辦法"},{"start":93,"end":94,"text":"在現在這個時候"},{"start":94,"end":97,"text":"你還可以老神再宣布上架呢"},{"start":97,"end":99,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":99,"end":103,"text":"現在4到6月的其實他生產批次是很確定的"},{"start":103,"end":106,"text":"從4月1號到6月30號"},{"start":106,"end":108,"text":"所以你現在覺得他現在生產沒有問題"},{"start":108,"end":110,"text":"我的意思是說現在我們看到的"},{"start":110,"end":114,"text":"我跟你們講現在進口大豆是不是分兩種"},{"start":114,"end":116,"text":"就是我們防疫署是這個"},{"start":116,"end":120,"text":"管理這個進口農藥有沒有病蟲害"},{"start":120,"end":123,"text":"那食藥署是食品用途的大豆"},{"start":123,"end":128,"text":"抽驗也是驗重金屬或農藥殘留容許"},{"start":128,"end":130,"text":"那除了這些檢疫證明之外"},{"start":130,"end":133,"text":"有要求我們抽口國要提供大豆"},{"start":133,"end":136,"text":"熱損率證明之類的文件嗎"},{"start":138,"end":140,"text":"這個部分因為現在"},{"start":140,"end":142,"text":"那個節點上面呢"},{"start":142,"end":147,"text":"我們是訂兩PPB的一個標準的油脂"},{"start":147,"end":152,"text":"你們知道黃豆在產地會因為乾燥或儲存不當"},{"start":152,"end":155,"text":"而產生熱損傷的這樣的加工瑕疵"},{"start":155,"end":157,"text":"那為什麼沒有進一步去要求"},{"start":157,"end":159,"text":"我想謝謝委員的指正"},{"start":159,"end":161,"text":"那這部分其實很重要的節點"},{"start":161,"end":163,"text":"在這一次沒有嘛"},{"start":163,"end":165,"text":"所以我們還是一樣"},{"start":165,"end":167,"text":"又是要靠我們業者的自律心"},{"start":167,"end":169,"text":"來保障我們的食安"},{"start":169,"end":172,"text":"就像你們現在要修的法一樣"},{"start":172,"end":174,"text":"一樣沒有做到主動通報"},{"start":174,"end":176,"text":"沒有做到連線啊"},{"start":176,"end":180,"text":"對不對你還是讓這個業者自己主動去通報"},{"start":180,"end":182,"text":"這樣有什麼用呢"},{"start":182,"end":184,"text":"不是回到原點"},{"start":184,"end":187,"text":"這個入法之後的所謂的不是主動是強制"},{"start":187,"end":189,"text":"強制的通報的概念"},{"start":189,"end":192,"text":"其實讓這個預警點能夠拉前"},{"start":192,"end":195,"text":"你們的食品運作是要幹嘛的"},{"start":195,"end":200,"text":"你不能跟這些檢驗的單位來做連線嗎"},{"start":200,"end":202,"text":"不能主動他主動跳提示嗎"},{"start":202,"end":204,"text":"這邊跟委員報告"},{"start":204,"end":207,"text":"因為之前的評估當然是有提到相關的議題"},{"start":207,"end":209,"text":"那也牽涉到多方的意見"},{"start":209,"end":213,"text":"所以在13年"},{"start":213,"end":215,"text":"13年的期間"},{"start":215,"end":217,"text":"我們針對蘇丹紅事件的時候"},{"start":217,"end":219,"text":"有相關的提案之後"},{"start":219,"end":221,"text":"在5月6月同時"},{"start":221,"end":223,"text":"講了很多次啊"},{"start":223,"end":225,"text":"台中市政府之前也反應了"},{"start":225,"end":228,"text":"這反應的部分我們針對這議題"},{"start":228,"end":231,"text":"有經過了專家學者以及業者"},{"start":231,"end":234,"text":"以及我們的各縣市的申請"},{"start":234,"end":236,"text":"我們現在講結果啦"},{"start":236,"end":237,"text":"你要怎麼做啦"},{"start":237,"end":239,"text":"我覺得這個點是非常重要的"},{"start":239,"end":243,"text":"我們在所謂關鍵的HACCP的節點裡面"},{"start":243,"end":245,"text":"有沒有辦法把它入法"},{"start":245,"end":246,"text":"這一次的研議裡面"},{"start":246,"end":250,"text":"我想也尊重整個委員以及各方的意見裡面"},{"start":250,"end":252,"text":"有把這個部分納入裡面的考量"},{"start":252,"end":254,"text":"共同來研議它的可行性"},{"start":254,"end":256,"text":"好那現在我們就朝這個方向來規劃"},{"start":256,"end":258,"text":"我們就朝這個方向來努力啦"},{"start":258,"end":260,"text":"那現在今年1到6月"},{"start":260,"end":263,"text":"我看到基改大豆進口總量"},{"start":263,"end":269,"text":"光務署給我的資料是127萬9714公噸"},{"start":269,"end":271,"text":"那同一期間同一貨品"},{"start":272,"end":279,"text":"食藥署受理抱怨的這個進度是127萬8061公噸"},{"start":279,"end":281,"text":"差了1653噸"},{"start":281,"end":282,"text":"哪裡去啦"},{"start":282,"end":284,"text":"為什麼進來那麼多"},{"start":284,"end":290,"text":"你們檢驗才這個差距差了1600多噸"},{"start":290,"end":291,"text":"現在哪一區"},{"start":291,"end":295,"text":"我們邊境的抽驗叫做Border Protection Intelligence"},{"start":295,"end":299,"text":"按照它的風險等級做抽驗的一個基礎"},{"start":299,"end":301,"text":"這邊是跟委員特別做一些報告"},{"start":301,"end":303,"text":"所以並不是每一批"},{"start":303,"end":304,"text":"而是抽批的"},{"start":304,"end":306,"text":"按照風險跟檢出的情形"},{"start":306,"end":309,"text":"黃豆的風險點在哪裡"},{"start":309,"end":312,"text":"一般特別會注意的是我們的植種金屬"},{"start":312,"end":314,"text":"黃麴毒素等等"},{"start":314,"end":316,"text":"那過去對於我們扁平皮"},{"start":316,"end":318,"text":"不是我在說你受理抱怨的進度"},{"start":318,"end":320,"text":"我現在講總重量"},{"start":320,"end":324,"text":"我不是問你驗幾批"},{"start":324,"end":325,"text":"報告報告委員"},{"start":325,"end":326,"text":"報告報告委員"},{"start":326,"end":329,"text":"我們的資料受理的根儀的數字是"},{"start":329,"end":333,"text":"都是1278061"},{"start":333,"end":335,"text":"對關務署不會騙人吧"},{"start":335,"end":336,"text":"我的資料也是喔"},{"start":336,"end":337,"text":"關務署給我的喔"},{"start":337,"end":338,"text":"相近的"},{"start":338,"end":339,"text":"這我們是相近的"},{"start":339,"end":342,"text":"差了1653公噸"},{"start":342,"end":343,"text":"叫做相近"},{"start":343,"end":345,"text":"那個是統計期間我們受理"},{"start":345,"end":347,"text":"一個統計期間叫受理期間"},{"start":347,"end":349,"text":"這個是很將近的"},{"start":349,"end":350,"text":"為什麼叫將近"},{"start":350,"end":352,"text":"1000多公噸它會消失"},{"start":353,"end":354,"text":"我講這個"},{"start":354,"end":357,"text":"我跟你講你們到現在數字都說不清楚"},{"start":357,"end":359,"text":"連這麼基礎的都沒有辦法做到"},{"start":359,"end":360,"text":"都會有誤差"},{"start":360,"end":363,"text":"關務署跟你們報官進來的"},{"start":363,"end":366,"text":"跟你們查驗的這個數字都會有差"},{"start":366,"end":367,"text":"難怪你們講不清楚"},{"start":367,"end":369,"text":"一個是抱怨的"},{"start":369,"end":370,"text":"一個是出關的"},{"start":370,"end":372,"text":"兩個時間是有差距的"},{"start":372,"end":373,"text":"會有差距的"},{"start":373,"end":374,"text":"同一批"},{"start":374,"end":376,"text":"這個時間點上面"},{"start":376,"end":378,"text":"你不要再跟我拗時間點"},{"start":378,"end":380,"text":"我們會去把我們所有的"},{"start":380,"end":381,"text":"對不對"},{"start":381,"end":382,"text":"今年2月到6月"},{"start":382,"end":383,"text":"好再問你"},{"start":383,"end":384,"text":"今年2月到6月"},{"start":384,"end":385,"text":"台灣總共從巴西進口"},{"start":385,"end":387,"text":"大概70萬噸的大豆"},{"start":387,"end":390,"text":"那總報單117批"},{"start":390,"end":391,"text":"2到5月"},{"start":391,"end":393,"text":"巴西進口大概60萬噸"},{"start":393,"end":395,"text":"進口商有15家"},{"start":395,"end":396,"text":"這60萬公噸"},{"start":396,"end":398,"text":"其中有20萬公噸"},{"start":398,"end":400,"text":"直接賣給下一個22家廠商"},{"start":400,"end":403,"text":"31萬噸是8大廠同時進口"},{"start":403,"end":405,"text":"60家工廠的業者"},{"start":405,"end":406,"text":"那自己留著"},{"start":406,"end":408,"text":"就包含已經知道的大統一"},{"start":408,"end":410,"text":"大臣還有我們扶壽中聯"},{"start":410,"end":412,"text":"那剩下9萬都哪裡去"},{"start":412,"end":414,"text":"我想我們今天報告數據"},{"start":414,"end":416,"text":"跟我們收到的是"},{"start":416,"end":419,"text":"70萬4千5百8十二噸"},{"start":419,"end":421,"text":"你們的數據出來都是多數"},{"start":421,"end":424,"text":"57萬3千4百7十八公噸"},{"start":424,"end":425,"text":"是來自於美國的"},{"start":425,"end":427,"text":"那我們確實收到數據是這樣"},{"start":427,"end":429,"text":"我們會後再把相關的"},{"start":429,"end":431,"text":"完整的數據跟委員做"},{"start":431,"end":432,"text":"對你們的數據"},{"start":432,"end":433,"text":"我跟你講"},{"start":433,"end":434,"text":"對你的數據是相近的"},{"start":434,"end":435,"text":"完全錯不到"},{"start":435,"end":436,"text":"中聯有指批號"},{"start":436,"end":439,"text":"315-115-0404這一批"},{"start":439,"end":441,"text":"在今年4月4號生產"},{"start":441,"end":443,"text":"那它的原料是在"},{"start":443,"end":444,"text":"今年3月31號進口"},{"start":444,"end":446,"text":"那報驗號是"},{"start":446,"end":451,"text":"IFK號15180009702"},{"start":451,"end":455,"text":"報單號碼是DA151021379"},{"start":455,"end":456,"text":"那後來發現"},{"start":456,"end":458,"text":"4月1號又有問題了"},{"start":458,"end":460,"text":"那4月1號的豆子哪裡來的"},{"start":461,"end":463,"text":"4月1號我們後來確定"},{"start":463,"end":464,"text":"它是哪一批"},{"start":464,"end":466,"text":"就是往前一批的美國豆"},{"start":466,"end":467,"text":"不是4月4號這一批的"},{"start":467,"end":469,"text":"它的傳批是"},{"start":469,"end":471,"text":"121-ET"},{"start":471,"end":474,"text":"115年1月25號進來的豆子"},{"start":474,"end":475,"text":"所以是在美國豆"},{"start":475,"end":477,"text":"後來我們也確實的檢驗"},{"start":477,"end":479,"text":"它是批BAP是沒有驗出來的"},{"start":479,"end":481,"text":"這邊我們都已經有公告了"},{"start":481,"end":482,"text":"好 我再問你"},{"start":482,"end":484,"text":"中聯的賣方是國際大糧商"},{"start":484,"end":486,"text":"這個加級嘛"},{"start":486,"end":489,"text":"從巴西商托斯港裝貨"},{"start":489,"end":491,"text":"運到台中港輸入"},{"start":491,"end":494,"text":"那這批貨分6筆報關"},{"start":494,"end":496,"text":"總共大概5.46萬公噸"},{"start":496,"end":498,"text":"全部進到中聯油脂"},{"start":498,"end":500,"text":"那6張報驗單"},{"start":500,"end":502,"text":"做成10批大豆沙拉油"},{"start":502,"end":506,"text":"總共是12930公噸"},{"start":506,"end":507,"text":"但很奇怪的是"},{"start":507,"end":510,"text":"這10批的批號開頭"},{"start":510,"end":511,"text":"看起來是不同油槽"},{"start":511,"end":514,"text":"但是有5批本篇筆鈔標"},{"start":514,"end":516,"text":"這10批當中的第一批"},{"start":516,"end":517,"text":"也就是我們這一次"},{"start":517,"end":518,"text":"被驗出來的"},{"start":518,"end":520,"text":"引爆食安的這一批油的問題"},{"start":520,"end":522,"text":"10批裡面有5批有問題"},{"start":522,"end":525,"text":"2到6月進了70萬公噸"},{"start":525,"end":527,"text":"你們只抓了大概"},{"start":527,"end":529,"text":"其中的5萬噸來查"},{"start":529,"end":530,"text":"連一成都不到"},{"start":530,"end":532,"text":"面對這麼高異常的比例"},{"start":532,"end":534,"text":"你們不是擴大追查"},{"start":534,"end":536,"text":"而是急著縮小範圍"},{"start":536,"end":537,"text":"現在是怎麼樣"},{"start":537,"end":539,"text":"宣布就是不敢影響到"},{"start":539,"end":541,"text":"其他的廠商"},{"start":541,"end":543,"text":"然後保護業者的安全"},{"start":543,"end":545,"text":"然後拿人民的財產安全"},{"start":545,"end":546,"text":"分明來做這個犧牲"},{"start":546,"end":547,"text":"是這樣嗎"},{"start":547,"end":548,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":548,"end":552,"text":"我們今年從1月到6月的60批"},{"start":552,"end":553,"text":"其實我們現在有"},{"start":553,"end":555,"text":"檢體的全部都驗完了"},{"start":555,"end":556,"text":"1到3月的我們驗出來的"},{"start":556,"end":559,"text":"結果都是沒有檢出的"},{"start":559,"end":561,"text":"沒有鈔標的一個情形"},{"start":561,"end":562,"text":"那4到6月的"},{"start":562,"end":564,"text":"剛才提到4月5月6月"},{"start":564,"end":566,"text":"我們分別在4月10批裡面有5批"},{"start":566,"end":568,"text":"針對其他的5批"},{"start":568,"end":569,"text":"總共10批裡面"},{"start":569,"end":570,"text":"我們都每一批都驗完"},{"start":570,"end":573,"text":"原油跟下油相關的油品"},{"start":573,"end":575,"text":"確立它上下之間的關係"},{"start":575,"end":578,"text":"能夠達成確立它的是"},{"start":578,"end":580,"text":"目前是沒有檢出的安全的"},{"start":580,"end":581,"text":"一個狀況"},{"start":581,"end":584,"text":"你只驗了5萬多噸而已"},{"start":584,"end":586,"text":"我跟委員稍微報告"},{"start":586,"end":587,"text":"因為做出來的油"},{"start":587,"end":590,"text":"但是你們覺得說"},{"start":590,"end":592,"text":"只要不驗就不會有問題"},{"start":592,"end":593,"text":"不是"},{"start":593,"end":594,"text":"跟委員進一步說"},{"start":594,"end":595,"text":"每一批都驗過了"},{"start":595,"end":597,"text":"平常要有風險管理"},{"start":597,"end":600,"text":"這個做風險管理是要靠科學"},{"start":600,"end":601,"text":"那危機發生的時候"},{"start":601,"end":604,"text":"這個要阻止風險擴散"},{"start":604,"end":605,"text":"就要有決心"},{"start":605,"end":606,"text":"對不對"},{"start":606,"end":608,"text":"再好的科學也保護不了人命"},{"start":608,"end":609,"text":"你們如果不做"},{"start":609,"end":611,"text":"拿著再好的武器也沒用"},{"start":611,"end":612,"text":"謝謝委員的關心"},{"start":612,"end":613,"text":"我們又下定決心"},{"start":613,"end":614,"text":"每一批都驗了"},{"start":614,"end":615,"text":"而且驗出來結果的"},{"start":615,"end":618,"text":"每一批都跟各位委員做報告"},{"start":618,"end":620,"text":"那其中我們看到19批的"},{"start":620,"end":622,"text":"是目前是上下油都驗起來"},{"start":622,"end":623,"text":"是合格標準的"},{"start":623,"end":625,"text":"那另外有3批的油槽"},{"start":625,"end":626,"text":"甚至還在油槽裡面"},{"start":626,"end":627,"text":"我們也進去去驗"},{"start":627,"end":629,"text":"確定都是沒有驗出扁平批的"},{"start":629,"end":631,"text":"這邊也在這個機會"},{"start":631,"end":635,"text":"跟各位大眾能夠說明"},{"start":635,"end":637,"text":"那我再問你進口商有15家"},{"start":637,"end":639,"text":"直接賣給下油22家廠商"},{"start":639,"end":640,"text":"8大廠自己留"},{"start":640,"end":642,"text":"所以總共有30間工廠"},{"start":642,"end":644,"text":"進到可能有問題的豆子"},{"start":644,"end":645,"text":"另外還有9萬噸"},{"start":645,"end":646,"text":"我們現在剛才我算了一下"},{"start":646,"end":647,"text":"追不到嘛"},{"start":647,"end":648,"text":"那你很快要開學了"},{"start":648,"end":649,"text":"你不繼續追嗎"},{"start":649,"end":651,"text":"你認為這樣就安全了嗎"},{"start":651,"end":653,"text":"跟委員說明"},{"start":653,"end":655,"text":"我們對於進入油廠裡面"},{"start":655,"end":657,"text":"因為豆子的問題"},{"start":657,"end":658,"text":"不代表結果有問題"},{"start":658,"end":659,"text":"因為整個製程"},{"start":659,"end":661,"text":"其實在管制的部分"},{"start":661,"end":663,"text":"我們壓強在關鍵節點"},{"start":663,"end":664,"text":"跟主批的檢驗"},{"start":664,"end":665,"text":"達到這個效果"},{"start":665,"end":668,"text":"那2024年的賴清德總統"},{"start":668,"end":669,"text":"是很討厭你這種樣子"},{"start":669,"end":670,"text":"你這種態度"},{"start":670,"end":672,"text":"但他現在把你當寶貝"},{"start":672,"end":674,"text":"以前的民進黨在野"},{"start":674,"end":675,"text":"要求的是寧可錯殺"},{"start":675,"end":676,"text":"也不要放過風險"},{"start":676,"end":677,"text":"現在執政的"},{"start":677,"end":680,"text":"就變成沒有百分之百的證據"},{"start":680,"end":682,"text":"就不要擴大處理"},{"start":682,"end":684,"text":"這邊跟委員特別報告"},{"start":684,"end":686,"text":"我請教你"},{"start":686,"end":688,"text":"113年3月13號"},{"start":688,"end":690,"text":"3月13號對面食品安全會"},{"start":690,"end":692,"text":"那時候李孟彥"},{"start":692,"end":693,"text":"這個秘書長說"},{"start":693,"end":695,"text":"發現瘦肉精不要馬上發佈消息"},{"start":695,"end":696,"text":"不然會造成恐慌"},{"start":696,"end":698,"text":"大家普遍愛吃的美牛"},{"start":698,"end":699,"text":"都有瘦肉精"},{"start":699,"end":700,"text":"已經吃了十年"},{"start":700,"end":703,"text":"所以要大家接受牛跟豬有瘦肉精"},{"start":703,"end":704,"text":"你當時也在場"},{"start":704,"end":706,"text":"那現在請你告訴我"},{"start":706,"end":708,"text":"是不是因為民進黨執政"},{"start":708,"end":709,"text":"無限開放"},{"start":709,"end":711,"text":"所以我們現在吃的這個"},{"start":711,"end":713,"text":"美豬美牛都有瘦肉精"},{"start":713,"end":715,"text":"跟委員做進一步說明"},{"start":715,"end":717,"text":"對於美豬美牛"},{"start":717,"end":719,"text":"以及各國的豬肉"},{"start":719,"end":721,"text":"我們對於瘦肉精的管理"},{"start":721,"end":722,"text":"其實是一致的"},{"start":722,"end":724,"text":"那在豬肉的開放"},{"start":724,"end":725,"text":"跟牛肉開放"},{"start":725,"end":727,"text":"其實我們從歷史上面看起來"},{"start":727,"end":730,"text":"都知道它在不同的政黨階段裡面"},{"start":730,"end":731,"text":"都同樣的開放"},{"start":731,"end":732,"text":"對我來講"},{"start":732,"end":734,"text":"瘦肉精是一種化學物質"},{"start":734,"end":735,"text":"它的風險是一致的"},{"start":735,"end":737,"text":"不應牛跟豬有改變"},{"start":737,"end":739,"text":"我們堅持原來的觀點"},{"start":739,"end":740,"text":"現在跳下一題了"},{"start":740,"end":741,"text":"時間也不夠"},{"start":741,"end":742,"text":"我問你"},{"start":742,"end":743,"text":"這個蘋果"},{"start":743,"end":744,"text":"這個芬普寧的殘留容許"},{"start":744,"end":747,"text":"業者當時申請的容許值是多少"},{"start":747,"end":748,"text":"它爆出來的"},{"start":748,"end":749,"text":"希望我們"},{"start":749,"end":751,"text":"它希望爆出來的"},{"start":751,"end":752,"text":"我記得是5"},{"start":752,"end":754,"text":"我們希望實際上算出來不是5"},{"start":754,"end":756,"text":"因為是在3的PPM的"},{"start":756,"end":758,"text":"所以我們即使申請出來"},{"start":758,"end":760,"text":"不管是申請量是"},{"start":760,"end":762,"text":"要求是多少或希望多少"},{"start":762,"end":765,"text":"我們都按照我們的科學風險分析"},{"start":765,"end":766,"text":"在整個專家委會"},{"start":766,"end":768,"text":"用國際的OECD的"},{"start":768,"end":770,"text":"所謂計算公式裡面"},{"start":770,"end":772,"text":"我們涵蓋了國人現在的"},{"start":772,"end":773,"text":"設施的習慣"},{"start":773,"end":774,"text":"那為什麼"},{"start":774,"end":775,"text":"整體的設施"},{"start":775,"end":776,"text":"我們台灣是3"},{"start":776,"end":777,"text":"日本又是2呢"},{"start":777,"end":780,"text":"所以每個國家的設施的習慣"},{"start":780,"end":781,"text":"風險是不同的"},{"start":781,"end":782,"text":"所以在這種前提下"},{"start":782,"end":783,"text":"我們還會按照這來說明"},{"start":783,"end":785,"text":"業者111年一月就開始送資料"},{"start":785,"end":786,"text":"同樣的芬普寧"},{"start":786,"end":788,"text":"一次送了很多樣水果"},{"start":788,"end":790,"text":"那第一面是因為資料不完整"},{"start":790,"end":794,"text":"幾乎連這個資料都還沒有資格審"},{"start":794,"end":796,"text":"112年結束後"},{"start":796,"end":797,"text":"連資料都還不起"},{"start":797,"end":801,"text":"最後總共送了26場田間試驗資料"},{"start":801,"end":802,"text":"看起來很多"},{"start":802,"end":804,"text":"但實際審查之後"},{"start":804,"end":807,"text":"有22場因為這個施藥劑量"},{"start":807,"end":809,"text":"施藥次數或操作方式"},{"start":809,"end":811,"text":"不符合美國的要求"},{"start":811,"end":812,"text":"全部被剔除"},{"start":812,"end":814,"text":"真正拿下來評估的"},{"start":814,"end":815,"text":"只有4場的試驗"},{"start":815,"end":818,"text":"換句話說26場只採用4場"},{"start":818,"end":821,"text":"採用率大概只有15%"},{"start":821,"end":822,"text":"而這4場的殘留量"},{"start":822,"end":827,"text":"大概落在0.4到1.125ppm之間"},{"start":827,"end":829,"text":"尤其最低值0.48"},{"start":829,"end":832,"text":"就幾乎貼著我們原本規定的0.5的標準"},{"start":832,"end":835,"text":"部長你說這個3ppm"},{"start":835,"end":837,"text":"是為了反映實際的情形"},{"start":837,"end":840,"text":"這個跟台美貿易有關係嗎"},{"start":840,"end":842,"text":"跟台美貿易有沒有關係"},{"start":842,"end":843,"text":"先講這邊有關係"},{"start":843,"end":845,"text":"委員非常非常專業的"},{"start":845,"end":847,"text":"26場裡面為什麼取4場"},{"start":847,"end":849,"text":"每一場的田間試驗"},{"start":849,"end":851,"text":"要符合叫做GAP"},{"start":851,"end":854,"text":"良好的農業執行標準"},{"start":854,"end":855,"text":"我覺得很奇怪"},{"start":855,"end":856,"text":"在這種前提下才能夠"},{"start":856,"end":858,"text":"這個標準是符合美國的標準"},{"start":858,"end":861,"text":"可信的試驗結果"},{"start":861,"end":863,"text":"才能夠進入我們的評估"},{"start":863,"end":864,"text":"所以進入我們評估"},{"start":864,"end":866,"text":"一定是可信的完整的"},{"start":866,"end":868,"text":"因為這個可信度才能夠導入"},{"start":868,"end":870,"text":"我們後續的一個計算"},{"start":870,"end":871,"text":"進入計算之後"},{"start":871,"end":876,"text":"確實它是在這樣子3ppm的標準底下"},{"start":876,"end":879,"text":"是我們看起來是很合理的數據"},{"start":879,"end":880,"text":"我覺得很奇怪的是"},{"start":880,"end":881,"text":"我們真正的問題是"},{"start":881,"end":883,"text":"政府為什麼要接受這套資料"},{"start":883,"end":885,"text":"因為為什麼在26場試驗中"},{"start":885,"end":887,"text":"只剩下4場可以使用"},{"start":887,"end":890,"text":"仍然決定把原本的0.5ppm"},{"start":890,"end":892,"text":"要提高到3ppm"},{"start":892,"end":893,"text":"我覺得這很奇怪"},{"start":893,"end":895,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":895,"end":897,"text":"這個計算這個公式"},{"start":897,"end":898,"text":"不是台灣發明的"},{"start":898,"end":900,"text":"是世界十大先進國家"},{"start":900,"end":902,"text":"OECD等等的"},{"start":902,"end":904,"text":"進行同樣的公式在計算的"},{"start":904,"end":908,"text":"不因為台灣而改變了這個公式"},{"start":908,"end":911,"text":"也沒有去適應這個要去對應"},{"start":911,"end":912,"text":"我現在時間不夠"},{"start":912,"end":914,"text":"有很多時間差"},{"start":914,"end":916,"text":"有很多時間這整個排列下來"},{"start":916,"end":919,"text":"一直以來我們跟美國的貿易來談判的時候"},{"start":919,"end":922,"text":"在談這個部分"},{"start":922,"end":924,"text":"農藥容許量不足"},{"start":924,"end":927,"text":"這個部分都不能符合美國的標準"},{"start":927,"end":930,"text":"美國一直要求我們要調整標準"},{"start":930,"end":932,"text":"整個下來讓我們覺得"},{"start":932,"end":934,"text":"今天會調到3ppm"},{"start":934,"end":937,"text":"是因為要受到美國的壓力"},{"start":937,"end":939,"text":"那我希望這樣"},{"start":939,"end":942,"text":"這個部分我們回去再檢討一下"},{"start":942,"end":945,"text":"你這個3ppm你再拿給"},{"start":945,"end":947,"text":"你們討論的數據給我"},{"start":947,"end":948,"text":"好嗎"},{"start":948,"end":949,"text":"跟委員特別報告"},{"start":949,"end":950,"text":"我們其實整個算起來"},{"start":950,"end":952,"text":"OECD的ADI"},{"start":952,"end":954,"text":"目前是在30%"},{"start":954,"end":959,"text":"因為蘋果本身已經有173項農藥殘留容許量"},{"start":959,"end":961,"text":"已經173項了"},{"start":961,"end":965,"text":"那這項標準是基於人民的食安"},{"start":965,"end":967,"text":"還是為了我們現在開放這個"},{"start":967,"end":970,"text":"還是為了要讓蘋果更容易過關"},{"start":970,"end":972,"text":"我想委員我們一定是以"},{"start":972,"end":975,"text":"風險分析出來評估出來的結果"},{"start":975,"end":978,"text":"也是食安的前提之下來做出來的結果"},{"start":978,"end":980,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":980,"end":982,"text":"謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}