{"error":false,"id":["170681"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170681,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170681","日期":"2026-07-22","會議資料":null,"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-22T14:13:51+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-22T14:24:05+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:14","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7469000803f9b6aa5af95c06fdc59529a27d63d5dbb97eb276d2076b6cd1d59b13912a9c72435c4b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"盧縣一","委員發言時間":"14:13:51 - 14:24:05","會議時間":"2026-07-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"（變更議程）立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）\n邀請衛生福利部部長、行政院食品安全辦公室、行政院消費者保護處、經濟部、法務部、國防部及教育部就「致癌食用油成因、流向、稽查、資訊公開、風險評估、團體訴訟、求償機制，行政法律究責、未來具體改進措施及期程等事宜」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n邀請衛生福利部部長、行政院食品安全辦公室、教育部及農業部就「近期發布《農藥殘留容許量標準》(如其中蘋果芬普寧藥殘標準從0.5ppm放寬至3.0ppm等)之各項依據及修正標準」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n討論事項\n一、審查行政院函送財團法人國家衛生研究院115年度工作計畫及收支預算案。\n二、審查衛生福利部函送財團法人醫院評鑑暨醫療品質策進會等9家財團法人115年度預算書案。\n【以上專題報告及預算案綜合詢答；預算案，僅詢答，115年7月30日下午5時截止收案】\n（下午2時30分起，若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n三、繼續審查及審查「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」等73案。\n(一)繼續審查行政院函請審議「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)繼續審查委員何欣純等17人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)繼續審查委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條及五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)繼續審查委員王美惠等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(五)繼續審查委員劉建國等16人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n......（完整內容，詳見議事日程）\n(六十四)審查委員高金素梅等18人擬具「國民年金法第三十一條、第五十三條及第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(六十五)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六十六)審查委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六十七)審查委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六十八)審查委員賴士葆等25人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(六十九)審查委員廖偉翔等21人擬具「國民年金法第三十九條、第三十九條之一及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n(七十)審查委員涂權吉等18人擬具「國民年金法第五十四條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(七十一)審查委員林思銘等17人擬具「國民年金法第十五條、第三十一條及第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n(七十二)審查國民黨黨團擬具「國民年金法第三十九條、第三十九條之一及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n(七十三)審查委員游顥等16人擬具「國民年金法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【逐條討論，不詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4.95846875,"end":6.443468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.443468750000001,"end":7.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10.51034375,"end":10.712843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10.915343750000002,"end":36.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.12846875,"end":24.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.43221875,"end":24.516593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":36.26159375,"end":46.032218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":45.627218750000004,"end":46.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.30221875,"end":46.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":46.48784375,"end":49.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":50.52096875,"end":74.12909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":74.17971875,"end":82.97159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.91659375,"end":91.18971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":85.18221875,"end":85.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":90.56534375000001,"end":104.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.51034375,"end":92.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":105.21284375,"end":123.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":123.57284375,"end":139.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":133.22534375,"end":133.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":140.24534375000002,"end":142.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":142.77659375000002,"end":165.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":165.87846875000002,"end":170.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":171.29534375,"end":178.18034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":178.21409375000002,"end":278.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":279.17721875,"end":296.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":297.63846875,"end":305.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":305.38409375000003,"end":310.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.49284375,"end":321.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":321.71909375,"end":322.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.42784375,"end":322.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.90034375000005,"end":323.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":323.49096875000004,"end":328.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.87471875,"end":326.08971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.51971875000004,"end":337.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":337.36221875,"end":343.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":345.32721875000004,"end":349.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.33346875,"end":364.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.44659375000003,"end":374.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.97659375,"end":384.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.69221875000005,"end":395.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.59784375000004,"end":402.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.39409375,"end":412.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":410.71784375000004,"end":411.00471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":412.18596875000003,"end":413.92409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.02096875,"end":456.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":456.48284375000003,"end":457.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":457.44471875000005,"end":476.78346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.95221875000004,"end":481.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":477.28971875,"end":477.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":479.06159375000004,"end":479.41596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":481.20471875000004,"end":503.68221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":504.61034375,"end":504.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":504.94784375000006,"end":528.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":528.74159375,"end":534.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":534.81659375,"end":534.8334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":534.8334687500001,"end":561.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":535.2890937500001,"end":535.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.37346875,"end":535.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.99721875,"end":540.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.01721875,"end":547.3547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":562.1709687499999,"end":578.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":579.26534375,"end":585.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":585.12096875,"end":607.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":607.76721875,"end":608.8303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":609.0834687500001,"end":610.1128437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":6.4,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長"},{"start":6.4,"end":7.44,"text":"請部長"},{"start":7.44,"end":10.88,"text":"好"},{"start":10.88,"end":11.88,"text":"趙偉好"},{"start":11.88,"end":12.6,"text":"部長好"},{"start":12.6,"end":14.200000000000001,"text":"我們在大院也講過了"},{"start":14.200000000000001,"end":16,"text":"現在又在講這個議題"},{"start":16,"end":19,"text":"講了大概一兩個禮拜了"},{"start":19,"end":20,"text":"那也辛苦了"},{"start":20,"end":22,"text":"不過就現在看到的部分"},{"start":22,"end":24.2,"text":"很像我們都在做事後的檢討"},{"start":24.2,"end":27,"text":"所以我覺得在面對這些問題的時候"},{"start":27,"end":28.8,"text":"就針對現在民眾的餘力"},{"start":28.8,"end":30.6,"text":"我跟妳就教了"},{"start":30.6,"end":33.8,"text":"就是希望在污染成一個真相跟調查報告"},{"start":33.8,"end":36.2,"text":"能不能在一個禮拜之內提出來"},{"start":36.2,"end":38.4,"text":"差不多我們已經到了最後的階段"},{"start":38.4,"end":42,"text":"昨天已經有這個專家委員進入到場"},{"start":42,"end":43.6,"text":"繼續做最後的確認"},{"start":43.6,"end":45.8,"text":"在這個報告這個禮拜就完成"},{"start":45.8,"end":46.400000000000006,"text":"一個禮拜"},{"start":46.400000000000006,"end":50.400000000000006,"text":"那流向的追蹤跟食品的追溯系統的效能呢"},{"start":50.400000000000006,"end":54.6,"text":"這個我們當然我們現在的這個非追不可"},{"start":54.6,"end":58.400000000000006,"text":"登記是以製造業為主"},{"start":58.4,"end":60.6,"text":"就沒有擴及到販售端"},{"start":60.6,"end":64,"text":"那未來我們會對這些比較高風險的"},{"start":64,"end":66.2,"text":"這個食品營的這個追蹤"},{"start":66.2,"end":69,"text":"我們把它擴大到這個販售端"},{"start":69,"end":71.6,"text":"這個可以協助我們掌握的更清楚"},{"start":71.6,"end":74.2,"text":"那我們目前是以製造業為主"},{"start":74.2,"end":76.8,"text":"像看到就是說中聯盛報29P"},{"start":76.8,"end":78.6,"text":"可是地方政府卻到查出"},{"start":78.6,"end":80.2,"text":"第三十P的這個漏報"},{"start":80.2,"end":83.8,"text":"你覺得這個問題是出在哪裡"},{"start":83.8,"end":87,"text":"就是最後這一批是這個業者"},{"start":87,"end":88.8,"text":"還是這個營業"},{"start":88.8,"end":90.6,"text":"所以我們後來又加罰"},{"start":90.6,"end":91.8,"text":"也是屬於營業的部分"},{"start":91.8,"end":92.8,"text":"對"},{"start":92.8,"end":96.4,"text":"那行政法律責任跟跨部會的銜接這個部分"},{"start":96.4,"end":99.4,"text":"你覺得在目前大家的紛紛擾擾"},{"start":99.4,"end":102,"text":"講說行政院長道歉"},{"start":102,"end":103.4,"text":"部長下台這個部分"},{"start":103.4,"end":105.2,"text":"你的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":105.2,"end":107.7,"text":"當然我們現在就如同跟委員說明的"},{"start":107.7,"end":109.8,"text":"就是我們目前最重要的責任"},{"start":109.8,"end":113.4,"text":"就是趕快讓這個事件弄清楚"},{"start":113.4,"end":115.6,"text":"然後該修的法律"},{"start":115.6,"end":120,"text":"我們趕快進行把這個該修訂的辦法也好"},{"start":120,"end":122,"text":"或者是母法要修訂"},{"start":122,"end":123.39999999999999,"text":"趕快完成"},{"start":123.39999999999999,"end":124.8,"text":"所以還是希望能夠在一個月"},{"start":124.8,"end":127.39999999999999,"text":"能夠看到行政責任的檢討報告"},{"start":127.39999999999999,"end":129.79999999999998,"text":"因為如果說一直覺得說是"},{"start":129.79999999999998,"end":130.79999999999998,"text":"執政黨的傲慢"},{"start":130.79999999999998,"end":133.2,"text":"這個部分我覺得你應該是承擔不起"},{"start":133.2,"end":135.5,"text":"所以想說一個月內是不是可以提供一些"},{"start":135.5,"end":138,"text":"你們確實的一個監管的舒適"},{"start":138,"end":140.2,"text":"這部分的報告可以看到嗎"},{"start":140.2,"end":142.79999999999998,"text":"好我們當然這個"},{"start":142.8,"end":145.8,"text":"我們第一步會針對這一個"},{"start":145.8,"end":147,"text":"有品這個"},{"start":147,"end":150.20000000000002,"text":"為什麼會讓他超標這個事件的"},{"start":150.20000000000002,"end":151.60000000000002,"text":"這個中聯這個案子"},{"start":151.60000000000002,"end":153.4,"text":"我們會有完整的報告"},{"start":153.4,"end":156.4,"text":"那麼調查的結果是如何呈現出來"},{"start":156.4,"end":161,"text":"那至於在後續的這個行政責任的"},{"start":161,"end":163.8,"text":"這個追究的部分"},{"start":163.8,"end":165.8,"text":"我們也會依法來處理"},{"start":165.8,"end":167.10000000000002,"text":"至於修法的部分"},{"start":167.10000000000002,"end":169.4,"text":"可以請食藥署先說明一下嗎"},{"start":169.4,"end":171.20000000000002,"text":"修法的方向"},{"start":171.39999999999998,"end":174.6,"text":"修法我們大概把它有十個重點"},{"start":174.6,"end":178.39999999999998,"text":"會從源頭一直到這個下端的"},{"start":178.39999999999998,"end":180,"text":"這個應變的處置"},{"start":180,"end":181.79999999999998,"text":"那麼在這個源頭的部分"},{"start":181.79999999999998,"end":186.2,"text":"我們會針對這個比較高風險的這個食品"},{"start":186.2,"end":188.6,"text":"原料的部分就要逐批檢驗"},{"start":188.6,"end":190.6,"text":"這個從源頭就開始"},{"start":190.6,"end":193.39999999999998,"text":"那麼有製程的變更"},{"start":193.39999999999998,"end":196,"text":"也需要做試制"},{"start":196,"end":197.79999999999998,"text":"要先有試驗做過"},{"start":197.79999999999998,"end":200,"text":"然後檢驗那麼都合格"},{"start":200,"end":201,"text":"那麼才開始做"},{"start":201,"end":202.6,"text":"這個是高風險"},{"start":202.6,"end":205,"text":"從源頭上我們就做處理"},{"start":205,"end":206.6,"text":"那麼從製程上"},{"start":206.6,"end":209.6,"text":"我們也會強化在HACCP"},{"start":209.6,"end":211.2,"text":"剛剛委員也都就叫了"},{"start":211.2,"end":215.4,"text":"在HACCP的對這個製程的確認"},{"start":215.4,"end":218.2,"text":"也要包含有抽驗"},{"start":218.2,"end":219.6,"text":"那麼來確定"},{"start":219.6,"end":222.4,"text":"那麼它的這個爐這個品質"},{"start":222.4,"end":224.8,"text":"爐質這些我們也會做處理"},{"start":224.8,"end":227.2,"text":"那麼另外在這個"},{"start":227.2,"end":228.7,"text":"這個三級的品管"},{"start":228.7,"end":230.7,"text":"那麼也會去強化"},{"start":230.7,"end":234.29999999999998,"text":"相關的檢驗室的品質的認證"},{"start":234.29999999999998,"end":236.89999999999998,"text":"要中國主管機關的認證"},{"start":236.89999999999998,"end":240.29999999999998,"text":"通報的部分也有通報義務的強化"},{"start":240.29999999999998,"end":242.5,"text":"包含實驗室也要通報"},{"start":242.5,"end":244.7,"text":"第三方的認證單位也要通報"},{"start":244.7,"end":246.29999999999998,"text":"都把這個通報的義務"},{"start":246.29999999999998,"end":247.5,"text":"那麼納進去"},{"start":247.5,"end":248.89999999999998,"text":"那麼如果隱匿"},{"start":248.89999999999998,"end":251.5,"text":"或者是沒有如期的通報"},{"start":251.5,"end":252.89999999999998,"text":"那麼它的這個罰則"},{"start":252.89999999999998,"end":255.1,"text":"我們也把它提高了"},{"start":255.1,"end":257.5,"text":"那後端的當然還包含"},{"start":257.5,"end":261.5,"text":"我們在這個這個權責的部分"},{"start":261.5,"end":263.3,"text":"我們也會有這個"},{"start":263.3,"end":265.1,"text":"這個把它做一些釐清"},{"start":265.1,"end":268.3,"text":"那麼包含何時成立這個中央"},{"start":268.3,"end":271.7,"text":"的這個食安事件的應變中心"},{"start":271.7,"end":274.7,"text":"也讓它授權無法來訂定"},{"start":274.7,"end":276.9,"text":"那當然還有後面的一些"},{"start":276.9,"end":280.7,"text":"這個這個罰則"},{"start":280.7,"end":283.9,"text":"或者是這個食安基金的"},{"start":283.9,"end":287.3,"text":"還有這個處罰的時候的"},{"start":287.3,"end":290.7,"text":"保全這些確保這個罰金"},{"start":290.7,"end":292.5,"text":"不會因為讓它拖殘"},{"start":292.5,"end":295.5,"text":"那這些的話都在這一次的修法裡面"},{"start":295.5,"end":297.5,"text":"大概有十個重點"},{"start":297.5,"end":300.90000000000003,"text":"我想知道說消保處已經啟動團體訴訟"},{"start":300.90000000000003,"end":303.7,"text":"那團體訴訟收監的啟齊時間是什麼時候"},{"start":303.7,"end":305.3,"text":"你大概有掌握嗎"},{"start":305.3,"end":308.1,"text":"好我是不是可以麻煩行政院"},{"start":308.1,"end":311.3,"text":"那個消保處來做補充"},{"start":311.3,"end":312.1,"text":"好 吳言好"},{"start":312.1,"end":313.2,"text":"跟吳言報告"},{"start":313.2,"end":316.1,"text":"因為昨天這兩個消保團體都有做"},{"start":316.1,"end":317,"text":"開記者會"},{"start":317,"end":319.3,"text":"然後跟對外公佈說他們要啟動"},{"start":319.3,"end":322.3,"text":"所以他們現在網站上已經可以開始登記了"},{"start":322.3,"end":323.5,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":323.5,"end":324.90000000000003,"text":"就是說現在就可以了"},{"start":324.90000000000003,"end":326.1,"text":"對可以上網上登記"},{"start":326.1,"end":326.90000000000003,"text":"還有一個對Line嗎"},{"start":326.90000000000003,"end":328.5,"text":"有沒有所謂的截止時間"},{"start":328.5,"end":331.90000000000003,"text":"呃有那個那個台銷會應該是到"},{"start":331.90000000000003,"end":333.3,"text":"台銷會是到十月底"},{"start":333.3,"end":336.3,"text":"但是我們會看情形再跟他們繼續持續保持聯繫"},{"start":336.3,"end":337.3,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":337.3,"end":339.3,"text":"好那請教育部跟國防部說明"},{"start":339.3,"end":341.1,"text":"究竟有多少學校跟幼兒園"},{"start":341.1,"end":345.3,"text":"其實當中曾經實際提供公參的部分"},{"start":345.3,"end":346.5,"text":"還有涉及多少學生"},{"start":346.5,"end":347.5,"text":"然後教職員官兵"},{"start":347.5,"end":349.5,"text":"這些是不是有足以通知到"},{"start":359.5,"end":360.5,"text":"吳言好"},{"start":360.5,"end":364.5,"text":"國防部針對這次的一個使用由的部分"},{"start":364.5,"end":369.3,"text":"那我們在第一時間就依據整個衛福部公佈的資訊"},{"start":369.3,"end":371.1,"text":"所做的全面的清查"},{"start":371.1,"end":375.1,"text":"那我們清查屬於那個不合格遊品部分就一項"},{"start":375.1,"end":379.1,"text":"那我們清查是有29個火石團有用到"},{"start":379.1,"end":383.1,"text":"那其實我們整個在回收的部分"},{"start":383.1,"end":385.1,"text":"總共我們這個"},{"start":385.1,"end":388.1,"text":"福州的艦位箱有總共是104桶"},{"start":388.1,"end":390.1,"text":"總共312公升"},{"start":390.1,"end":393.1,"text":"其實我們在第一時間就已經回收"},{"start":393.1,"end":395.1,"text":"然後回收了260公升"},{"start":395.1,"end":401.1,"text":"那針對這些火石團有用到這個問題由的部分"},{"start":401.1,"end":403.1,"text":"那我們也請單位"},{"start":403.1,"end":406.1,"text":"掌握官兵的目前的一個狀況"},{"start":406.1,"end":410.1,"text":"那目前官兵是還沒有任何的一個健康的一個疑慮狀況"},{"start":410.1,"end":412.1,"text":"那我們會持續掌握以上報告"},{"start":412.1,"end":414.1,"text":"那請學校說明教育部"},{"start":414.1,"end":416.1,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":416.1,"end":419.1,"text":"那教育部這個部分呢"},{"start":419.1,"end":423.1,"text":"截至115年7月20號為止"},{"start":423.1,"end":425.1,"text":"實際遊品的部分呢"},{"start":425.1,"end":429.1,"text":"是有7個縣市528校曾經使用"},{"start":429.1,"end":432.1,"text":"那針對實驗所後面持續更新"},{"start":432.1,"end":437.1,"text":"就是那個公布的受影響的產品那個部分呢"},{"start":437.1,"end":441.1,"text":"目前清查出來疑似有涉及20個縣市"},{"start":441.1,"end":443.1,"text":"861校"},{"start":443.1,"end":446.1,"text":"然後還有334所幼兒園"},{"start":446.1,"end":450.1,"text":"這個是第二層相關產品的部分"},{"start":450.1,"end":454.1,"text":"那目前全部都是請學校立即停止使用"},{"start":454.1,"end":455.1,"text":"並且下架"},{"start":455.1,"end":456.1,"text":"以上"},{"start":456.1,"end":457.1,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":457.1,"end":459.1,"text":"那所以我還是請衛福部能夠提出一個"},{"start":459.1,"end":461.1,"text":"一夜市的健康風險說明"},{"start":461.1,"end":464.1,"text":"比如說讓消費者或者是家長"},{"start":464.1,"end":466.1,"text":"或者是曾經使用的人可以去"},{"start":466.1,"end":469.1,"text":"去看就是說他長期使用那個風險的差異"},{"start":469.1,"end":471.1,"text":"然後是不是在哪一種情況下"},{"start":471.1,"end":473.1,"text":"他必須做醫療的諮詢"},{"start":473.1,"end":476.1,"text":"讓民眾說不至於過度恐慌"},{"start":476.1,"end":479.1,"text":"好這個我們來做"},{"start":479.1,"end":481.1,"text":"讓民眾不用過度恐慌"},{"start":481.1,"end":483.1,"text":"那我一直覺得我們從早上聽到現在"},{"start":483.1,"end":487.1,"text":"我一直覺得是很像是業者的問題是比較大多數"},{"start":487.1,"end":489.1,"text":"那是不是在以後在修法的時候"},{"start":489.1,"end":493.1,"text":"我們要防範這種事後資料的一個呈現"},{"start":493.1,"end":499.1,"text":"或者是說他確實這個資料不是這個原來的這個受檢的這個品項"},{"start":499.1,"end":501.1,"text":"那你要怎麼去預防作假這個部分"},{"start":501.1,"end":504.1,"text":"我是覺得以後在修法是不是一個重點"},{"start":504.1,"end":505.1,"text":"是"},{"start":505.1,"end":509.1,"text":"所以在這個防堵的部分防堵他作假的部分"},{"start":509.1,"end":511.1,"text":"我們就透過多方攻擊"},{"start":511.1,"end":516.1,"text":"所以包含他雖然他的自主檢驗的頻率要提高"},{"start":516.1,"end":520.1,"text":"那麼另外也透過第三方以及實驗室"},{"start":520.1,"end":524.1,"text":"那麼通通把他這個連結起來"},{"start":524.1,"end":526.1,"text":"讓我們的資料的來源能夠多元"},{"start":526.1,"end":528.1,"text":"避免他有作假的行行"},{"start":528.1,"end":531.1,"text":"對不只我們還有一個思考的方向就是說"},{"start":531.1,"end":534.1,"text":"其實現在很像目前憑藉最辛苦的是醫院"},{"start":534.1,"end":536.1,"text":"那為什麼會這樣"},{"start":536.1,"end":538.1,"text":"因為那是人命關天的部分"},{"start":538.1,"end":540.1,"text":"那實驗員不是也是這樣嗎"},{"start":540.1,"end":543.1,"text":"而且是面對這些我說已經上次有講過"},{"start":543.1,"end":547.1,"text":"他們是屬於非常大的利益的一個產業"},{"start":547.1,"end":550.1,"text":"那你要怎麼去切入他們的那個所謂的檢驗"},{"start":550.1,"end":552.1,"text":"或者是說你要防堵他們作假這個部分"},{"start":552.1,"end":556.1,"text":"我是覺得你要更大的一個power來執行這樣的事情"},{"start":556.1,"end":559.1,"text":"所以如果說我們面對醫院是這麼嚴格的在評鑑"},{"start":559.1,"end":563.1,"text":"那我太是因為是關於人命嘛"},{"start":563.1,"end":565.1,"text":"食品的擁有的部分"},{"start":565.1,"end":567.1,"text":"我在想我們每天都在吃油"},{"start":567.1,"end":570.1,"text":"我覺得這個層級應該要拉高到"},{"start":570.1,"end":573.1,"text":"跟教學醫院這樣這個層級去評鑑他們"},{"start":573.1,"end":576.1,"text":"不然一而再再而三發生還是會出現漏洞"},{"start":576.1,"end":581.1,"text":"就是因為我們沒有辦法獨自去面對這麼大的一個利益團體"},{"start":581.1,"end":583.1,"text":"所以需要衛福部的力量"},{"start":583.1,"end":585.1,"text":"需要政府的力量去做監督"},{"start":585.1,"end":590.1,"text":"好除了這些這個剛剛講到的這些報告的稽查之外"},{"start":590.1,"end":592.1,"text":"那當然實地的茶廠"},{"start":592.1,"end":594.1,"text":"就跟委員講的評鑑"},{"start":594.1,"end":596.1,"text":"實地評鑑實際的茶廠"},{"start":596.1,"end":599.1,"text":"這個也應該要提高這個頻率"},{"start":599.1,"end":601.1,"text":"不是說幾年才查一次"},{"start":601.1,"end":604.1,"text":"包含抽樣的部分也是一樣"},{"start":604.1,"end":607.1,"text":"除了他自主的檢驗也要外部的抽樣"},{"start":607.1,"end":609.1,"text":"好謝謝部長"},{"start":609.1,"end":611.1,"text":"謝謝謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}