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":"依照現行的憲法及憲法法庭113年憲判字第9號判決，官員如果有不實之發言應該要負政治責任，確實我沒有權力用法律來制裁沒有說實話的官員，但我相信各位首長，希望各位首長是就是、不是就不是，有就有、沒有就沒有，謝謝兩位。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:31:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:31:57.666667+08:00","text":"蘇巧慧委員的妹妹蘇巧純在2021年8月擔開始擔任曠世智能董事兼營運長，2022年11月爸爸蘇貞昌擔任行政院院長期間，曠世智能獲得國發基金1,999萬9,000元，迴避了2,000萬上限的投資。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:31:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:32:13.500000+08:00","text":"接著2023年2月曠世智能宣布獲得由臺企銀領投，國發基金跟投150萬美金的Pre-A輪募資，2024年再獲得經濟部商發署120萬。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:32:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:32:24.625000+08:00","text":"我看到這個時間軸，覺得匪夷所思，很難不聯想為什麼蘇巧純一擔任董事，補助就跟著滾滾而來呢？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:32:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:32:51.750000+08:00","text":"更離譜的，在國發基金投資的前一個月，曠世智能旗下的微股力平臺才因為涉及投資詐騙被起訴，請兩位看起訴書，在簡報左邊，起訴理由把它放大了，寫在右邊，連這種淪為詐騙工具的平臺，請問國發會，你們也敢拿人民的血汗錢去投資嗎？","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:32:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:32:54.800000+08:00","text":"你們的審核是閉著眼睛、摀著良心嗎？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:32:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:32:57.800000+08:00","text":"請國發會回答我這個問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-23T09:32:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:33:13.333333+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，曠世智能這個公司是透過我們的天使投資方案，天使投資方案是輔助新創，到現在投了三百多個公司，這是其中一個，就是委員剛剛提到的2022年的8月他提出申請……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:33:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:33:22.857143+08:00","text":"執秘，我的意思是說之前就發生前科，你們還沒有排除，就是繼續給錢嗎？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:33:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:33:27.875000+08:00","text":"我要的只是這個部分的答案，您覺得這樣適合嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:33:28.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:33:28.833333+08:00","text":"您覺得適合嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-23T09:33:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:33:39.625000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這一個時間軸上面，這裡的判決是112年，他提出申請是111年。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:33:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:33:48.500000+08:00","text":"不對啦，國發基金投資前一個月，它就跑出這個事情，投資前一個月嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:33:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:33:50.833333+08:00","text":"你趕快去查證。","quality":1},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-23T09:33:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:33:51.857143+08:00","text":"我們這邊的資料……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:33:52.454545+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:33:53+08:00","text":"民眾黨早就資料都齊備了。111年……","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:33:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:34:01.875000+08:00","text":"我還是問你，如果你現在還在否認，我們要查證，如果一個淪為詐騙工具的平臺，你們會去投資它嗎？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:34:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:34:04.857143+08:00","text":"你就回答我這個問題就好了，你會去投資他嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:34:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:34:05.666667+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:34:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:34:06.800000+08:00","text":"可以投資嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-23T09:34:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:34:09.875000+08:00","text":"基本上我們會做盡職調查，如果有這樣的情況……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:34:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:34:10.666667+08:00","text":"不行嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:34:11.571429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:34:11.857143+08:00","text":"就是不行嘛！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:34:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:34:12.666667+08:00","text":"對不對？對，是。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:34:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:34:44.833333+08:00","text":"好，從公開判決可以知道曠世智能因為它的訂閱功能跟LINE BOT的功能不完善導致整個營收巨幅下滑，一間公司的營收唯一來源不斷下滑，公司還進行縮編，直到2024年，只剩下蘇巧純跟另外7名員工，比一個立法委員辦公室的規模還小，公司財務出狀況，2024年卻又拿到經濟部商發署120萬的補助，請問經濟部，難道是因為綠營權貴公司財務出問題，你們就給錢嗎？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:34:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:34:46.500000+08:00","text":"是這樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2026-07-23T09:34:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:34:58.800000+08:00","text":"報告委員，謝謝委員關心，我們所有的補助案子都是按照程序來辦理，所以是由當事人的公司來做申請，經過審查委員通過之後，我們才進行補助……","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:34:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:35:01.600000+08:00","text":"我剛剛談的事實啊，都是事實啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2026-07-23T09:35:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:35:03.833333+08:00","text":"是，我們也是經過審核的部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:35:04.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:35:17.500000+08:00","text":"曠世智能營收巨幅下滑、不斷下滑，然後公司縮編剩下8名員工，蘇巧純跟7名員工，財務出狀況，但又繼續給補助，是嗎？","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:35:18.090909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:35:19.875000+08:00","text":"現在全臺灣有多少公司需要你們這樣補助？","quality":1},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2026-07-23T09:35:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:35:29.750000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們的所有審查案件都會按規定辦理，而且都必須要經過相關會計師查核，我們才會給予補助。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:35:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:35:34.500000+08:00","text":"好，希望你們要張著眼睛看，不要昧著良心。不會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:35:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:35:42.750000+08:00","text":"依照公職人員利益衝突迴避法的相關規定，投資審查前，被投資的標的要依法填具資料自行揭露。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:35:43.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:35:45.800000+08:00","text":"請問國發會，曠世智能有依法揭露嗎？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:35:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:35:48.857143+08:00","text":"請回答有或沒有，這個問題很簡單，有或沒有揭露？","quality":1},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-23T09:35:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:35:53.750000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，國發基金在受理申請的時候會……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:35:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:35:54.750000+08:00","text":"曠世智能有沒有依法揭露嘛？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:35:56.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:35:57.785714+08:00","text":"這個很簡單的問題。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-23T09:35:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:36:01.750000+08:00","text":"國發基金是用投資的方式在協助產業的發展。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:36:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:36:05.800000+08:00","text":"但是依公職人員利益衝突迴避法就是要揭露，有沒有揭露？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:36:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:36:07.750000+08:00","text":"你回答我有沒有揭露就好啦。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-23T09:36:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:36:10.800000+08:00","text":"公職人員利益衝突迴避法是講……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:36:10.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T09:36:11.800000+08:00","text":"你越說越模糊啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-23T09:36:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:36:12.750000+08:00","text":"沒有，那就是一般的補助。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:36:13.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:36:24.888889+08:00","text":"就是沒有，好，今天大家都聽到了，全國人民都在聽，沒有揭露，我繼續請問你，投資一個涉及詐騙加上財務困難的平臺，這是納稅人的血汗錢，是不是已經打水漂了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:36:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:36:25.666667+08:00","text":"請交代。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:36:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:36:33.833333+08:00","text":"這間公司變這個樣子了，那也是事實，請問你，你投資的錢是不是已經打水漂了，還是很有信心？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:36:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:36:35.818182+08:00","text":"對這個公司還是很有信心？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:36:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:36:37.750000+08:00","text":"你回答我、請回答我。","quality":1},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-23T09:36:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:36:58.777778+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們國發基金在天使投資方案的持股比例在這家公司是8.55%，我們也沒有董監事的席次，所以關於公司治理，我們就是透過各種方式去取得相關資料來了解他公司的營運……","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:37:15.846154+08:00","text":"執秘，不要說太多啦，我只是問你，你投資一個涉及詐騙的公司，這個詐騙我有判決書和判決內容給你看，加上財務困難，平臺一直縮編，剩下沒幾個人，規模比一個立法委員的辦公室還小，你還是把這筆錢給出去了嘛！","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:37:19.666667+08:00","text":"這是納稅人錢，不是你們的錢，不是你們的錢，是我們的錢。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:37:21.777778+08:00","text":"了解，是，我跟委員報告就是……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:37:22.857143+08:00","text":"那你還有信心嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:37:23.888889+08:00","text":"這個錢丟出去可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:37:32.785714+08:00","text":"剛剛我提到的就是它申請的時候是111年8月23號，剛剛提的這一個是在那個之後……","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:32.785714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T09:37:33.785714+08:00","text":"我剛剛已經把數字都給你了，我們真的有得爭辯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:33.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:37:39.888889+08:00","text":"之後他還有一次來申請現金增資，後面還有，在訴訟判決之後，還有一次來現金增資，那一次沒有通過。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:37:44.800000+08:00","text":"你把名字拿掉，我剛剛就問你，這幾個投資詐騙的平臺，你要不要繼續投資它？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:37:45.857143+08:00","text":"不可以還是可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:37:48.857143+08:00","text":"如果有一個詐騙平臺有前科，你要繼續給錢嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:37:51.750000+08:00","text":"你可以拿我們納稅人的錢給他嗎？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"汪執行秘書庭安","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:37:55.777778+08:00","text":"有這樣的事實在審議投評會是不會通過的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:55.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T09:37:56.777778+08:00","text":"好，就這樣。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:37:56.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:38:03.857143+08:00","text":"爸爸當行政院長，女兒的公司就能拿到近2,000萬上限的國發基金投資，這就是執政黨的利益迴避標準，故事還沒有結束。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:38:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:38:19.875000+08:00","text":"我們來看另外一家「威如科技」，蘇巧純在裡面擔任旗下akaSwap的執行長，短短時間內這家公司連續拿了經濟部好幾百萬的補助，請問經濟部，你們給的補助是看專業能力還是看背後的門神？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:38:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:38:20.750000+08:00","text":"請告訴我。","quality":1},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2026-07-23T09:38:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:38:28.333333+08:00","text":"報告委員，申請的公司是威如，據我們了解，蘇巧純按照這個簡報……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:38:29.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:38:31.750000+08:00","text":"它旗下有akaSwap，你也很清楚，下面我還有資料。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2026-07-23T09:38:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:38:36.750000+08:00","text":"我們對於補助的對象是威如科技，不是他下包的廠商。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:38:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:39:03.785714+08:00","text":"你這樣講……請你繼續聽，經濟部也一起聽，連蘇巧純自己在接受經濟部商發署訪問時都公開承認威如科技就是akaSwap的營運者，我都有資料，他自己說的，你不用再替他圓謊了，既然實際營運者是立委的二親等親屬，經濟部審查時沒有要求填寫利益衝突揭露表嗎？","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:39:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:39:04.333333+08:00","text":"沒有嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:39:04.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:39:06.833333+08:00","text":"還是遇到蘇家族就自動放水呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2026-07-23T09:39:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:39:08.500000+08:00","text":"報告委員……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:39:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:39:09.857143+08:00","text":"他自己都說是啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2026-07-23T09:39:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:39:15.750000+08:00","text":"他是他的下包公司，威如科技的負責人等等的登記不是……","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:39:16.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:39:17.750000+08:00","text":"他自己都說是，你還要跟我說不是？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2026-07-23T09:39:18.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:39:22.833333+08:00","text":"他公開的登記資料不是……他是他下包的廠商。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:39:23.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:39:43.750000+08:00","text":"今天衛福部次長在這邊，我自己擔任健保署將近30年的專家審查委員，我估算3年大概審過7、8件新藥申請案，對於個別的藥品，我每一案逐案都要填寫利益衝突，我請問你，這麼重要的事情，健保署會管，你管嗎？","quality":0.817},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:39:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:39:45.833333+08:00","text":"你不需要看嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:39:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:39:47.866667+08:00","text":"不用看跟利益迴避衝突的部分嗎？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:39:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:39:48.750000+08:00","text":"不需要嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:39:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:39:51.769231+08:00","text":"還是你遇到蘇家人就自動放水？","quality":1},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2026-07-23T09:39:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:39:54.842105+08:00","text":"我們對於所有的補助案都會提醒申請的廠商一定要符合利衝法。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:39:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:40:07.800000+08:00","text":"好，這件事我們跟經濟部有索資，經濟部回文直接證實威如科技在申請補助時根本就沒有提供公職人員身分關係揭露表，為什麼經濟部可以容許這件事發生？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:40:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:40:10.850000+08:00","text":"難道真的是綠營權貴就能夠閉著眼睛給補助嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:40:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:40:12.714286+08:00","text":"給全民一個交代吧。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2026-07-23T09:40:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:40:19.833333+08:00","text":"因為根據利衝法的關係是董監事還有負責人要填具相關資料，但是威如科技的負責人……","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:40:20.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:40:24.666667+08:00","text":"所以他填什麼你都不在乎啊，你填來我就給啊，你都不用查證？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:40:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:40:26.777778+08:00","text":"如果不填能怎麼辦呢？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:40:27.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:40:27.833333+08:00","text":"形同虛設嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2026-07-23T09:40:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:40:29.636364+08:00","text":"因為我們是按照利衝法……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:40:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:40:53.750000+08:00","text":"你們跟我們證實，威如科技根本沒有提供這個利益衝突關係，沒有揭露喔，這是非常重大的事情，今天沒有到場卻躲在監察院監看今天國會頻道的監察院代表，公職人員之二親等以內親屬擔任相關職務，申請補助就必須依法揭露啊！","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:40:54.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:41:01.714286+08:00","text":"蘇巧慧身為立委，一方面審查國家預算，一方面讓妹妹的公司拿補助，卻完全沒有申報，這樣沒有違法嗎？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:41:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:41:02.833333+08:00","text":"你們要配合嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:41:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:41:04.777778+08:00","text":"其他部會都要配合嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-23T09:41:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:41:16.750000+08:00","text":"你們今天談的部分，我會繼續用資料來追索，我們要對人民講清楚、說明白，謝謝兩位首長，謝謝主席。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"主席（陳委員昭姿代）","start":"2026-07-23T09:41:17.250000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T09:41:20.392857+08:00","text":"接下來請翁曉玲委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":343,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時30分）謝謝主席。有請國發會汪執秘、經濟部江次長。"],["主席：有請國發會和經濟部。"],["陳委員昭姿：兩位早。我今天的質詢內容都會建立在數字、公函跟法規上，我也希望兩位也能夠就事論事，不要糊弄我或是敷衍我。依照現行的憲法及憲法法庭113年憲判字第9號判決，官員如果有不實之發言應該要負政治責任，確實我沒有權力用法律來制裁沒有說實話的官員，但我相信各位首長，希望各位首長是就是、不是就不是，有就有、沒有就沒有，謝謝兩位。","蘇巧慧委員的妹妹蘇巧純在2021年8月擔開始擔任曠世智能董事兼營運長，2022年11月爸爸蘇貞昌擔任行政院院長期間，曠世智能獲得國發基金1,999萬9,000元，迴避了2,000萬上限的投資。接著2023年2月曠世智能宣布獲得由臺企銀領投，國發基金跟投150萬美金的Pre-A輪募資，2024年再獲得經濟部商發署120萬。我看到這個時間軸，覺得匪夷所思，很難不聯想為什麼蘇巧純一擔任董事，補助就跟著滾滾而來呢？更離譜的，在國發基金投資的前一個月，曠世智能旗下的微股力平臺才因為涉及投資詐騙被起訴，請兩位看起訴書，在簡報左邊，起訴理由把它放大了，寫在右邊，連這種淪為詐騙工具的平臺，請問國發會，你們也敢拿人民的血汗錢去投資嗎？你們的審核是閉著眼睛、摀著良心嗎？請國發會回答我這個問題。"],["汪執行秘書庭安：跟委員報告，曠世智能這個公司是透過我們的天使投資方案，天使投資方案是輔助新創，到現在投了三百多個公司，這是其中一個，就是委員剛剛提到的2022年的8月他提出申請……"],["陳委員昭姿：執秘，我的意思是說之前就發生前科，你們還沒有排除，就是繼續給錢嗎？我要的只是這個部分的答案，您覺得這樣適合嗎？您覺得適合嗎？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：跟委員報告，這一個時間軸上面，這裡的判決是112年，他提出申請是111年。"],["陳委員昭姿：不對啦，國發基金投資前一個月，它就跑出這個事情，投資前一個月嘛！你趕快去查證。"],["汪執行秘書庭安：我們這邊的資料……"],["陳委員昭姿：民眾黨早就資料都齊備了。"],["汪執行秘書庭安：111年……"],["陳委員昭姿：我還是問你，如果你現在還在否認，我們要查證，如果一個淪為詐騙工具的平臺，你們會去投資它嗎？你就回答我這個問題就好了，你會去投資他嗎？可以嗎？可以投資嗎？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：基本上我們會做盡職調查，如果有這樣的情況……"],["陳委員昭姿：不行嘛！就是不行嘛！對不對？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：對，是。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，從公開判決可以知道曠世智能因為它的訂閱功能跟LINE BOT的功能不完善導致整個營收巨幅下滑，一間公司的營收唯一來源不斷下滑，公司還進行縮編，直到2024年，只剩下蘇巧純跟另外7名員工，比一個立法委員辦公室的規模還小，公司財務出狀況，2024年卻又拿到經濟部商發署120萬的補助，請問經濟部，難道是因為綠營權貴公司財務出問題，你們就給錢嗎？是這樣嗎？"],["江次長文若：報告委員，謝謝委員關心，我們所有的補助案子都是按照程序來辦理，所以是由當事人的公司來做申請，經過審查委員通過之後，我們才進行補助……"],["陳委員昭姿：我剛剛談的事實啊，都是事實啊！"],["江次長文若：是，我們也是經過審核的部分……"],["陳委員昭姿：曠世智能營收巨幅下滑、不斷下滑，然後公司縮編剩下8名員工，蘇巧純跟7名員工，財務出狀況，但又繼續給補助，是嗎？現在全臺灣有多少公司需要你們這樣補助？"],["江次長文若：報告委員，我們的所有審查案件都會按規定辦理，而且都必須要經過相關會計師查核，我們才會給予補助。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，希望你們要張著眼睛看，不要昧著良心。"],["江次長文若：不會。"],["陳委員昭姿：依照公職人員利益衝突迴避法的相關規定，投資審查前，被投資的標的要依法填具資料自行揭露。請問國發會，曠世智能有依法揭露嗎？請回答有或沒有，這個問題很簡單，有或沒有揭露？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：跟委員報告，國發基金在受理申請的時候會……"],["陳委員昭姿：曠世智能有沒有依法揭露嘛？這個很簡單的問題。"],["汪執行秘書庭安：國發基金是用投資的方式在協助產業的發展。"],["陳委員昭姿：但是依公職人員利益衝突迴避法就是要揭露，有沒有揭露？你回答我有沒有揭露就好啦。"],["汪執行秘書庭安：公職人員利益衝突迴避法是講……"],["陳委員昭姿：你越說越模糊啦！"],["汪執行秘書庭安：沒有，那就是一般的補助。"],["陳委員昭姿：就是沒有，好，今天大家都聽到了，全國人民都在聽，沒有揭露，我繼續請問你，投資一個涉及詐騙加上財務困難的平臺，這是納稅人的血汗錢，是不是已經打水漂了？請交代。這間公司變這個樣子了，那也是事實，請問你，你投資的錢是不是已經打水漂了，還是很有信心？對這個公司還是很有信心？你回答我、請回答我。"],["汪執行秘書庭安：跟委員報告，我們國發基金在天使投資方案的持股比例在這家公司是8.55%，我們也沒有董監事的席次，所以關於公司治理，我們就是透過各種方式去取得相關資料來了解他公司的營運……"],["陳委員昭姿：執秘，不要說太多啦，我只是問你，你投資一個涉及詐騙的公司，這個詐騙我有判決書和判決內容給你看，加上財務困難，平臺一直縮編，剩下沒幾個人，規模比一個立法委員的辦公室還小，你還是把這筆錢給出去了嘛！這是納稅人錢，不是你們的錢，不是你們的錢，是我們的錢。"],["汪執行秘書庭安：了解，是，我跟委員報告就是……"],["陳委員昭姿：那你還有信心嗎？這個錢丟出去可以嗎？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：剛剛我提到的就是它申請的時候是111年8月23號，剛剛提的這一個是在那個之後……"],["陳委員昭姿：我剛剛已經把數字都給你了，我們真的有得爭辯。"],["汪執行秘書庭安：之後他還有一次來申請現金增資，後面還有，在訴訟判決之後，還有一次來現金增資，那一次沒有通過。"],["陳委員昭姿：你把名字拿掉，我剛剛就問你，這幾個投資詐騙的平臺，你要不要繼續投資它？不可以還是可以？如果有一個詐騙平臺有前科，你要繼續給錢嗎？你可以拿我們納稅人的錢給他嗎？"],["汪執行秘書庭安：有這樣的事實在審議投評會是不會通過的。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，就這樣。爸爸當行政院長，女兒的公司就能拿到近2,000萬上限的國發基金投資，這就是執政黨的利益迴避標準，故事還沒有結束。我們來看另外一家「威如科技」，蘇巧純在裡面擔任旗下akaSwap的執行長，短短時間內這家公司連續拿了經濟部好幾百萬的補助，請問經濟部，你們給的補助是看專業能力還是看背後的門神？請告訴我。"],["江次長文若：報告委員，申請的公司是威如，據我們了解，蘇巧純按照這個簡報……"],["陳委員昭姿：它旗下有akaSwap，你也很清楚，下面我還有資料。"],["江次長文若：我們對於補助的對象是威如科技，不是他下包的廠商。"],["陳委員昭姿：你這樣講……請你繼續聽，經濟部也一起聽，連蘇巧純自己在接受經濟部商發署訪問時都公開承認威如科技就是akaSwap的營運者，我都有資料，他自己說的，你不用再替他圓謊了，既然實際營運者是立委的二親等親屬，經濟部審查時沒有要求填寫利益衝突揭露表嗎？沒有嗎？還是遇到蘇家族就自動放水呢？"],["江次長文若：報告委員……"],["陳委員昭姿：他自己都說是啦！"],["江次長文若：他是他的下包公司，威如科技的負責人等等的登記不是……"],["陳委員昭姿：他自己都說是，你還要跟我說不是？"],["江次長文若：他公開的登記資料不是……他是他下包的廠商。"],["陳委員昭姿：今天衛福部次長在這邊，我自己擔任健保署將近30年的專家審查委員，我估算3年大概審過7、8件新藥申請案，對於個別的藥品，我每一案逐案都要填寫利益衝突，我請問你，這麼重要的事情，健保署會管，你管嗎？你不需要看嗎？不用看跟利益迴避衝突的部分嗎？不需要嗎？還是你遇到蘇家人就自動放水？"],["江次長文若：我們對於所有的補助案都會提醒申請的廠商一定要符合利衝法。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，這件事我們跟經濟部有索資，經濟部回文直接證實威如科技在申請補助時根本就沒有提供公職人員身分關係揭露表，為什麼經濟部可以容許這件事發生？難道真的是綠營權貴就能夠閉著眼睛給補助嗎？給全民一個交代吧。"],["江次長文若：因為根據利衝法的關係是董監事還有負責人要填具相關資料，但是威如科技的負責人……"],["陳委員昭姿：所以他填什麼你都不在乎啊，你填來我就給啊，你都不用查證？如果不填能怎麼辦呢？形同虛設嗎？"],["江次長文若：因為我們是按照利衝法……"],["陳委員昭姿：你們跟我們證實，威如科技根本沒有提供這個利益衝突關係，沒有揭露喔，這是非常重大的事情，今天沒有到場卻躲在監察院監看今天國會頻道的監察院代表，公職人員之二親等以內親屬擔任相關職務，申請補助就必須依法揭露啊！蘇巧慧身為立委，一方面審查國家預算，一方面讓妹妹的公司拿補助，卻完全沒有申報，這樣沒有違法嗎？你們要配合嗎？其他部會都要配合嗎？你們今天談的部分，我會繼續用資料來追索，我們要對人民講清楚、說明白，謝謝兩位首長，謝謝主席。"],["主席（陳委員昭姿代）：接下來請翁曉玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":360,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-36-26","speakers":["翁曉玲","陳昭姿","吳宗憲","張雅琳","林倩綺","莊瑞雄","范雲","許宇甄","洪毓祥","賴士葆","洪孟楷","劉書彬","林沛祥","沈發惠","蔡其昌","蔡春綢","傅崐萁","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2026-07-23"],"gazette_id":"1156502","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156502_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請法務部部長、衛生福利部部長、司法院、行政院消費者保護處、衛生福利部食品藥物管\n理署就「中聯致癌油事件之偵辦調查、消費者權益及食安監管」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、\n邀請監察院秘書長、法務部部長、經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、銓敘部部長就「現行\n公職人員利益衝突迴避暨離職公務員旋轉門機制之執行成效與法制缺失」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1156502_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}