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的供應鏈流向，以及追究相關責任嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T09:45:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:45:45.750000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，在第一時間立案的時候就成立專案小組，在7月2日就有成立專案小組，還有一些機關也有納入這個小組裡面，高檢署有啟動查緝民生犯罪聯繫平臺，除了辦案單位以外，還有食藥署、行政院食安辦都有進來。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T09:45:46.230769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:45:57.750000+08:00","text":"另外，地檢有成立一個執行犯罪小組，與臺中市食品安全處以及食藥署都有……","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:45:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:46:04.428571+08:00","text":"本席現在想要請教，除了這幾家公司之外，你們有沒有去清查它的原料來源？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T09:46:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:46:25.777778+08:00","text":"有，這個案件的確是有向上溯源的必要，如果檢察官要了解一定要向上溯源，才能夠對所有的犯罪做澈底的清查，請委員放心，我們會全力來查。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:46:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:46:39.857143+08:00","text":"因為到目前為止，我們沒有看到到底向上清查到什麼樣的範圍、什麼樣的程度；偵查或搜索哪一些這幾家公司之外的其他事業單位。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T09:46:40.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:46:55.500000+08:00","text":"檢察官會按照證據蒐集來做向上溯源，不論是橫向的或向上的溯源，檢察官辦案一定有這樣的企圖心。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:46:56.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:47:24.400000+08:00","text":"本席要再次強調，因為我們都會去看看過去怎麼做，現在的檢方對比10年前、12年前當時的偵辦速度，還有偵查的範圍，至少本席認為，這次中聯油脂案的辦案強度似乎是遠不如前面剛剛講的兩個案子，到現在為止已經拖了二十幾天都還沒起訴。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T09:47:25.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:47:36.750000+08:00","text":"在偵查中來講，辦案我們還要縝密的偵查，跟委員報告，其實我們也注意到要做財產保全，因為這個有團體訴訟的問題。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:47:37.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:47:38.875000+08:00","text":"所以你們已經做了財產保全？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:47:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:47:39.909091+08:00","text":"這也是本席接下來想問的。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T09:47:40.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:47:43.333333+08:00","text":"財產保全部分，我們有扣押……","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:47:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:47:47.857143+08:00","text":"可以大概講一下扣押的範圍是什麼？","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T09:47:48.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:48:14.800000+08:00","text":"在7月14日臺中地檢署就有聲請查扣犯罪所得，法院7月14日有就4家公司中聯、福懋、福壽及泰山，查扣了價值兩億五千三百多萬的不動產，在這些不動產價值裡面的一億兩千六百多萬元範圍內來進行扣押。","quality":0.802},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:48:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:48:20.750000+08:00","text":"簡單來說，只扣押了一億兩千多萬還是兩億六千多萬？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T09:48:21.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:48:40.714286+08:00","text":"這部分是依照食品衛生管理法第四十九條之一授權訂定的「食品安全衛生管理法沒收沒入追徵追繳違法所得估算及推估計價辦法」，參考衛福部認定的犯罪所得和追徵範圍來扣押的。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:48:40.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T09:48:42.222222+08:00","text":"所以到底是多少？","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:48:42.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:48:44.428571+08:00","text":"你們目前扣押的範圍是多少錢？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T09:48:46.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:48:48.666667+08:00","text":"價值是兩億多。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:48:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:48:49.555556+08:00","text":"總共是兩億多？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T09:48:50.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:48:59.800000+08:00","text":"裡面一億兩千多的範圍，這是法院的裁定，這部分如果有擴大的話，我們會再做另外的聲請。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:49:00.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:49:03.714286+08:00","text":"接下來我想請衛福部林次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-23T09:49:03.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T09:49:11.800000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:49:11.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:49:12.600000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:49:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:49:53.888889+08:00","text":"因為剛剛部長講了，他們已經扣押了一些犯罪所得，怕未來可能會有脫產的問題，但是事實上，這是為了避免業者脫產，現在衛福部對於這幾家公司有沒有已經聲請依法扣留或者是向行政法院聲請假扣押、假處分，先把這些公司的財產扣住，免得到時候我們的消費者提起團體訴訟，請求民事損害賠償的時候會求償無門，因為它都已經脫產了，不知道衛福部有沒有做這個動作？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-23T09:49:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:50:12.833333+08:00","text":"因為事件一發生，我們就跟司法機關這邊配合調查，目前在法律上面，我們現在還是在處理他們相關的油品問題，新的修法會在法源上面進入對於財產相關做一些扣押的動作，在食安法這邊。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:50:13.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:50:14.800000+08:00","text":"你們已經有聲請了嗎？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-23T09:50:15.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:50:17.714286+08:00","text":"在未來的修法會加上這個部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:50:18.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:50:19.818182+08:00","text":"這個不需要未來修法吧？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:50:20.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:50:30.769231+08:00","text":"其實依照相關法律，你們現在就可以依照行政訴訟法提出了，不需要相關修法，在訴訟上面，你們就可以提了。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-23T09:50:30.769231+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T09:50:33.363636+08:00","text":"委員，我們會再來處理這個事情，我們現在是依照食安法……","quality":0.174},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:50:33.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:50:56.875000+08:00","text":"所以由此可見，你們還沒有做，本席要提醒你們趕快去做，經過二十幾天，搞不好這幾家公司都已經脫產了，到時候就算鑑定真的會對消費者的身體造成傷害，要請求民事損害賠償，最後人家的錢都已經脫產了，求償也求償不到，這是滿嚴重的問題。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"林次長靜儀","start":"2026-07-23T09:50:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:51:03.833333+08:00","text":"我們也希望之後這個責任要回到業者這邊，所以針對委員這邊的提醒，我們會來跟相關法務單位討論。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:51:04.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:51:56.750000+08:00","text":"其實這個問題也涉及到整個司法以及相關法律規定的問題，我覺得今天司法院做的這份食安報告非常好，整理了很多很重要的資料，裡面有講到，過去食安事件因為適用刑事優先原則，所以曾經引發高額的行政罰也會被撤銷，因為刑事處罰不能夠完全剝奪不法利得的爭議，這是這次司法院提出的報告裡面有講到的，也就是刑事優先，所以就算行政機關現在處罰了他1.6億，但是之後可能會依照刑事判決來看他的犯罪所得等等，如果他這邊的犯罪所得只有1.2億，很可能1.6億這部分全部都撤銷掉，這是滿嚴重的問題。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:51:57.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:52:07.857143+08:00","text":"本席第一個希望衛福部要加速腳步，趕快先去扣留這些相關公司的財產；第二個，我也希望我們檢方能夠儘速起訴，好不好？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:52:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:52:12.900000+08:00","text":"儘速起訴，讓這個案子可以這個早點進入到法院審理。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:52:13.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:52:15.714286+08:00","text":"謝謝，先請兩位回座。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:52:16.133333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:52:23.777778+08:00","text":"接下來我想請施能傑施部長，這裡有議題想跟您請教，因為我們今天還有另外一個題目涉及到旋轉門條款。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T09:52:29.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:52:29.666667+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:52:30.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:52:31.500000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:52:32.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:52:46.727273+08:00","text":"我在前幾天有看到一則新聞，這個新聞主要在講賦稅署宋秀玲署長退休，而宋署長退休之後，四大會計師事務所急著搶人。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:52:47.857143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:53:04.833333+08:00","text":"由此可見，應該是宋署長表現非常好、很有專業，所以他一退休，會計師事務所馬上就急著想要聘任他，現在據新聞報載，他應該是會到資誠會計師事務所。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:53:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:53:40.785714+08:00","text":"可是本席在這裡提出一個問題，我們知道會計師事務所跟賦稅署的業務基本上也是有密切關聯的，賦稅署本身處理關於稅法的修正、擬定，還有處理查稅以及稅務訴訟等等業務，現在賦稅署署長一退休馬上就轉任會計師事務所，這個會不會有違反旋轉門的問題？","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T09:53:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:53:44.875000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，具體的個案我不清楚，但是我談大的東西。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T09:53:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:54:00.800000+08:00","text":"根據我們現在的法律規定，旋轉門是禁止公務人員在一定時間裡面到一個營利事業，主體一定是營利事業，要符合營利事業並擔任特定職務，可是我們不管特定行為，所以這是兩個不同的概念。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T09:54:01.888889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:54:17.857143+08:00","text":"但會計師事務所或者律師事務所在我們現行的法律制度上不是營利事業，因為我們的營利事業定義是根據公司法、商業登記法或者所得稅法所定義的營利事業，我跟委員報告，現行的法律是這樣一個概念。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T09:54:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:54:34.857143+08:00","text":"因此，在概念上，它就不是營利事業；回過頭來，他如果到一個不是營利事業的，不管是律師事務所或會計師事務所，因為很多專業人員也會去，那我們怎麼樣去做一些討論，這是另外一回事。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:54:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:55:01.875000+08:00","text":"其實本席知道部長一定會這樣回答，尤其是銓敘部本身也做了一個解釋認為，不管是律師事務所、會計師事務所，基本上就不屬於公務員服務法裡面所指的營利事業，所以就算是之前在政府機關擔任相關主管機關的首長，他退下來後轉任律師事務所或會計師事務所裡面的顧問等等，都不違反公務員服務法裡面的旋轉門條款。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:55:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:55:10.818182+08:00","text":"可是這個問題過去已經引發了很多的爭議，銓敘部是不是認為這個法應該要提出修法案？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:55:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:55:13.750000+08:00","text":"否則我覺得社會觀瞻很不好啊！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:55:14.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:55:47.800000+08:00","text":"賦稅署署長本來是要去督導、查核這些會計師事務所，因為會計師是擔任稅務的代理人，結果現在他從監督者轉型變成被監督者，而且可能還幫著本來要受監督的這些人去提供相關意見，以後知道賦稅署查稅時可能會有什麼地方可以想辦法迴避、規避，這個問題我認為應該要積極處理。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:55:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:56:04.600000+08:00","text":"我還記得去年黃國昌委員也曾經有質詢過，國發基金的前執秘也是辭職之後立刻又轉任到一個投資顧問公司，這其實也跟旋轉門條款有關。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T09:56:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:56:29.777778+08:00","text":"沒有錯，所以上個會期我們討論以後也又再增訂一些規範，但是委員所指教的這個部分確實是一個很大的議題，因為這不僅涉及……你也知道，不會只有會計師，會涉及到律師、會涉及到建築師，甚至醫師都可能，所以這個部分會涉及到更大的議題，就是我們對旋轉門到底是採取特定職務的禁止，還是特定行為的禁止？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T09:56:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:56:38.500000+08:00","text":"這方面過去社會也在討論、銓敘部也有在討論，但過程中社會一直沒有太多的共識，所以我說這個議題真的可以繼續討論，但是我不能回答一定是哪一個方面。","quality":0.738},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:56:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:57:27.750000+08:00","text":"我希望銓敘部要勇於任事，這件事情要積極地去解決，該提出怎麼樣修法就提出修法，不管你們未來是採取限制他的職務，以職務別來限制，或是以他的任職行為來做規範，這方面總是要積極地透過修法去解決這個問題，否則的話，大家會認為公務員服務法裡面的旋轉門條款只能夠約束小小的公務員，但是對於真的位高權重的首長，他離職之後完全不受任何的規範、拘束，這個部分我想不是大家所樂見的，我也希望銓敘部接下來可以積極地針對這個議題提案修法，好嗎？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T09:57:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:57:31.846154+08:00","text":"我們會再徵詢大家的意見，這個事情確實比較複雜一點。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:57:32.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:57:47.818182+08:00","text":"如果銓敘部不做的話，本席就來提案，我覺得這個問題一定要去解決，現在民進黨政府離職的政務官常常都會引發這種旋轉門的爭議，給外界的印象很不好。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T09:57:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:57:54.857143+08:00","text":"不過我想委員應該知道，旋轉門條款的適用對象非常、非常廣泛，不一定是政務人員，你也應該知道，各式各樣的專業人員都可能會涉及到，所以我們才會更謹慎去討論這件事情，好不好？","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-23T09:57:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T09:57:58.500000+08:00","text":"是的，沒錯，所以必須要把這個問題釐清，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-23T09:57:59+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T09:58:01.571429+08:00","text":"謝謝翁委員、謝謝部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（翁委員曉玲）","start":"2026-07-23T09:58:01.871429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T09:58:05.300000+08:00","text":"接下來有請張雅琳委員詢答。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":403,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（9時41分）謝謝主席，首先，先請法務部鄭部長。"],["主席：請法務部鄭部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：召委好。"],["翁委員曉玲：部長好。對於毒油事件，事實上，大家都很關心現在法務部地檢署偵辦的情況如何，在這裡我想要先回顧一下，過去我們也曾經發生過數起跟食用油有關的案子，在2013年曾經有發生大統長基混油案，當時的負責人高振利用便宜的棉花籽油和葵花油，加了銅葉綠素進行染色混充橄欖油，彰化地檢署在2013年10月15日執行搜索，2013年10月25日就已經偵查終結，並且提起公訴，簡單來說，從搜索到起訴前前後後只有10天的時間，當時彰化地檢署指出這是創下重大民生案件極快速偵辦的紀錄。我們再看2014年的頂新劣質油案，警方當時也幾乎是全力偵辦，大規模搜索、扣押、傳喚，甚至還聲押、限制出境等等，這個案件基本上也是相當迅速就偵結起訴，大概前後也只有20天左右。","我們再反過來對比今天的中聯油脂案，人民看到的是另一種景象，臺中地檢署在7月2日就已經啟動查緝民生犯罪聯繫平臺，建立中央與地方、行政與檢警調廉的聯繫機制，督導各地方檢察署查緝民生犯罪小組，但是到現在已經二十多天了，請問起訴了嗎？這中間進行了幾次搜索？"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，有兩次搜索，一次是7月9日有搜索，有約談相關的人，另外也聲押余姓總經理，因為法院裁定2,000萬交保，後來抗告也再次裁定羈押禁見。昨天又再第二次搜索，約談了12人，其中有3名是強制處分，有1位陳姓廠長是聲請羈押，有2位被告是諭知交保，另外9位相關證人是請回，這個部分我們是積極偵辦。"],["翁委員曉玲：部長剛剛說積極偵辦，可是我們對比2013年的大統油案，還有2014年的頂新油案，就可以知道……"],["鄭部長銘謙：每個案件的類型不太一樣，因為這次有……"],["翁委員曉玲：在當時他們涉及的複雜程度也不見得會比這次要來得單純，事實上，本席在乎的是法務部到現在為止，對於這個案子有沒有成立專案小組？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個有。"],["翁委員曉玲：有全面的去清查嗎？不僅是針對剛剛講的個案這幾家公司，還包括全面清查它的供應鏈流向，以及追究相關責任嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，在第一時間立案的時候就成立專案小組，在7月2日就有成立專案小組，還有一些機關也有納入這個小組裡面，高檢署有啟動查緝民生犯罪聯繫平臺，除了辦案單位以外，還有食藥署、行政院食安辦都有進來。另外，地檢有成立一個執行犯罪小組，與臺中市食品安全處以及食藥署都有……"],["翁委員曉玲：本席現在想要請教，除了這幾家公司之外，你們有沒有去清查它的原料來源？"],["鄭部長銘謙：有，這個案件的確是有向上溯源的必要，如果檢察官要了解一定要向上溯源，才能夠對所有的犯罪做澈底的清查，請委員放心，我們會全力來查。"],["翁委員曉玲：因為到目前為止，我們沒有看到到底向上清查到什麼樣的範圍、什麼樣的程度；偵查或搜索哪一些這幾家公司之外的其他事業單位。"],["鄭部長銘謙：檢察官會按照證據蒐集來做向上溯源，不論是橫向的或向上的溯源，檢察官辦案一定有這樣的企圖心。"],["翁委員曉玲：本席要再次強調，因為我們都會去看看過去怎麼做，現在的檢方對比10年前、12年前當時的偵辦速度，還有偵查的範圍，至少本席認為，這次中聯油脂案的辦案強度似乎是遠不如前面剛剛講的兩個案子，到現在為止已經拖了二十幾天都還沒起訴。"],["鄭部長銘謙：在偵查中來講，辦案我們還要縝密的偵查，跟委員報告，其實我們也注意到要做財產保全，因為這個有團體訴訟的問題。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以你們已經做了財產保全？這也是本席接下來想問的。"],["鄭部長銘謙：財產保全部分，我們有扣押……"],["翁委員曉玲：可以大概講一下扣押的範圍是什麼？"],["鄭部長銘謙：在7月14日臺中地檢署就有聲請查扣犯罪所得，法院7月14日有就4家公司中聯、福懋、福壽及泰山，查扣了價值兩億五千三百多萬的不動產，在這些不動產價值裡面的一億兩千六百多萬元範圍內來進行扣押。"],["翁委員曉玲：簡單來說，只扣押了一億兩千多萬還是兩億六千多萬？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分是依照食品衛生管理法第四十九條之一授權訂定的「食品安全衛生管理法沒收沒入追徵追繳違法所得估算及推估計價辦法」，參考衛福部認定的犯罪所得和追徵範圍來扣押的。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以到底是多少？你們目前扣押的範圍是多少錢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：價值是兩億多。"],["翁委員曉玲：總共是兩億多？"],["鄭部長銘謙：裡面一億兩千多的範圍，這是法院的裁定，這部分如果有擴大的話，我們會再做另外的聲請。"],["翁委員曉玲：接下來我想請衛福部林次長。"],["林次長靜儀：委員早。"],["翁委員曉玲：次長好。因為剛剛部長講了，他們已經扣押了一些犯罪所得，怕未來可能會有脫產的問題，但是事實上，這是為了避免業者脫產，現在衛福部對於這幾家公司有沒有已經聲請依法扣留或者是向行政法院聲請假扣押、假處分，先把這些公司的財產扣住，免得到時候我們的消費者提起團體訴訟，請求民事損害賠償的時候會求償無門，因為它都已經脫產了，不知道衛福部有沒有做這個動作？"],["林次長靜儀：因為事件一發生，我們就跟司法機關這邊配合調查，目前在法律上面，我們現在還是在處理他們相關的油品問題，新的修法會在法源上面進入對於財產相關做一些扣押的動作，在食安法這邊。"],["翁委員曉玲：你們已經有聲請了嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：在未來的修法會加上這個部分。"],["翁委員曉玲：這個不需要未來修法吧？其實依照相關法律，你們現在就可以依照行政訴訟法提出了，不需要相關修法，在訴訟上面，你們就可以提了。"],["林次長靜儀：委員，我們會再來處理這個事情，我們現在是依照食安法……"],["翁委員曉玲：所以由此可見，你們還沒有做，本席要提醒你們趕快去做，經過二十幾天，搞不好這幾家公司都已經脫產了，到時候就算鑑定真的會對消費者的身體造成傷害，要請求民事損害賠償，最後人家的錢都已經脫產了，求償也求償不到，這是滿嚴重的問題。"],["林次長靜儀：我們也希望之後這個責任要回到業者這邊，所以針對委員這邊的提醒，我們會來跟相關法務單位討論。"],["翁委員曉玲：其實這個問題也涉及到整個司法以及相關法律規定的問題，我覺得今天司法院做的這份食安報告非常好，整理了很多很重要的資料，裡面有講到，過去食安事件因為適用刑事優先原則，所以曾經引發高額的行政罰也會被撤銷，因為刑事處罰不能夠完全剝奪不法利得的爭議，這是這次司法院提出的報告裡面有講到的，也就是刑事優先，所以就算行政機關現在處罰了他1.6億，但是之後可能會依照刑事判決來看他的犯罪所得等等，如果他這邊的犯罪所得只有1.2億，很可能1.6億這部分全部都撤銷掉，這是滿嚴重的問題。本席第一個希望衛福部要加速腳步，趕快先去扣留這些相關公司的財產；第二個，我也希望我們檢方能夠儘速起訴，好不好？儘速起訴，讓這個案子可以這個早點進入到法院審理。謝謝，先請兩位回座。","接下來我想請施能傑施部長，這裡有議題想跟您請教，因為我們今天還有另外一個題目涉及到旋轉門條款。"],["施部長能傑：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：部長好。我在前幾天有看到一則新聞，這個新聞主要在講賦稅署宋秀玲署長退休，而宋署長退休之後，四大會計師事務所急著搶人。由此可見，應該是宋署長表現非常好、很有專業，所以他一退休，會計師事務所馬上就急著想要聘任他，現在據新聞報載，他應該是會到資誠會計師事務所。","可是本席在這裡提出一個問題，我們知道會計師事務所跟賦稅署的業務基本上也是有密切關聯的，賦稅署本身處理關於稅法的修正、擬定，還有處理查稅以及稅務訴訟等等業務，現在賦稅署署長一退休馬上就轉任會計師事務所，這個會不會有違反旋轉門的問題？"],["施部長能傑：我跟委員報告，具體的個案我不清楚，但是我談大的東西。根據我們現在的法律規定，旋轉門是禁止公務人員在一定時間裡面到一個營利事業，主體一定是營利事業，要符合營利事業並擔任特定職務，可是我們不管特定行為，所以這是兩個不同的概念。但會計師事務所或者律師事務所在我們現行的法律制度上不是營利事業，因為我們的營利事業定義是根據公司法、商業登記法或者所得稅法所定義的營利事業，我跟委員報告，現行的法律是這樣一個概念。因此，在概念上，它就不是營利事業；回過頭來，他如果到一個不是營利事業的，不管是律師事務所或會計師事務所，因為很多專業人員也會去，那我們怎麼樣去做一些討論，這是另外一回事。"],["翁委員曉玲：其實本席知道部長一定會這樣回答，尤其是銓敘部本身也做了一個解釋認為，不管是律師事務所、會計師事務所，基本上就不屬於公務員服務法裡面所指的營利事業，所以就算是之前在政府機關擔任相關主管機關的首長，他退下來後轉任律師事務所或會計師事務所裡面的顧問等等，都不違反公務員服務法裡面的旋轉門條款。","可是這個問題過去已經引發了很多的爭議，銓敘部是不是認為這個法應該要提出修法案？否則我覺得社會觀瞻很不好啊！賦稅署署長本來是要去督導、查核這些會計師事務所，因為會計師是擔任稅務的代理人，結果現在他從監督者轉型變成被監督者，而且可能還幫著本來要受監督的這些人去提供相關意見，以後知道賦稅署查稅時可能會有什麼地方可以想辦法迴避、規避，這個問題我認為應該要積極處理。","我還記得去年黃國昌委員也曾經有質詢過，國發基金的前執秘也是辭職之後立刻又轉任到一個投資顧問公司，這其實也跟旋轉門條款有關。"],["施部長能傑：沒有錯，所以上個會期我們討論以後也又再增訂一些規範，但是委員所指教的這個部分確實是一個很大的議題，因為這不僅涉及……你也知道，不會只有會計師，會涉及到律師、會涉及到建築師，甚至醫師都可能，所以這個部分會涉及到更大的議題，就是我們對旋轉門到底是採取特定職務的禁止，還是特定行為的禁止？這方面過去社會也在討論、銓敘部也有在討論，但過程中社會一直沒有太多的共識，所以我說這個議題真的可以繼續討論，但是我不能回答一定是哪一個方面。"],["翁委員曉玲：我希望銓敘部要勇於任事，這件事情要積極地去解決，該提出怎麼樣修法就提出修法，不管你們未來是採取限制他的職務，以職務別來限制，或是以他的任職行為來做規範，這方面總是要積極地透過修法去解決這個問題，否則的話，大家會認為公務員服務法裡面的旋轉門條款只能夠約束小小的公務員，但是對於真的位高權重的首長，他離職之後完全不受任何的規範、拘束，這個部分我想不是大家所樂見的，我也希望銓敘部接下來可以積極地針對這個議題提案修法，好嗎？"],["施部長能傑：我們會再徵詢大家的意見，這個事情確實比較複雜一點。"],["翁委員曉玲：如果銓敘部不做的話，本席就來提案，我覺得這個問題一定要去解決，現在民進黨政府離職的政務官常常都會引發這種旋轉門的爭議，給外界的印象很不好。"],["施部長能傑：不過我想委員應該知道，旋轉門條款的適用對象非常、非常廣泛，不一定是政務人員，你也應該知道，各式各樣的專業人員都可能會涉及到，所以我們才會更謹慎去討論這件事情，好不好？"],["翁委員曉玲：是的，沒錯，所以必須要把這個問題釐清，謝謝。"],["施部長能傑：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝翁委員、謝謝部長。"],["主席（翁委員曉玲）：接下來有請張雅琳委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":360,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-36-26","speakers":["翁曉玲","陳昭姿","吳宗憲","張雅琳","林倩綺","莊瑞雄","范雲","許宇甄","洪毓祥","賴士葆","洪孟楷","劉書彬","林沛祥","沈發惠","蔡其昌","蔡春綢","傅崐萁","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2026-07-23"],"gazette_id":"1156502","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156502_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請法務部部長、衛生福利部部長、司法院、行政院消費者保護處、衛生福利部食品藥物管\n理署就「中聯致癌油事件之偵辦調查、消費者權益及食安監管」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、\n邀請監察院秘書長、法務部部長、經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、銓敘部部長就「現行\n公職人員利益衝突迴避暨離職公務員旋轉門機制之執行成效與法制缺失」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1156502_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}